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Originally Posted by wildsage  "a" magical occurrence over several millennia? I don't get it. Do you mean several millennia of belief in alleged miracles? |
I thought we were talking about religion. Religion as a mystical magical belief system. Now you want to narrow this discussion to miracles? For Christianity as a whole miracles are low on the totem pole of what defines our faith. I was addressing your contention of science being around centuries and contending that my faith has been around for much longer. If time is even an arguable factor.
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Originally Posted by wildsage Science can't be described with ambiguous equations; when they are ambiguous, they are hunches, wishes or lies. |
Okay… give me the tangible elements that are defined under E=MC2? Energy. What specifically is energy? Mass. How does a physicist actually know the mass of the sun just by observing it from 92 million miles away? How can we really be sure that’s how far the sun is from the earth? Prove it. Constant. Scientists already know that light is not a constant. It’s velocity changes when affected by gravity. The theory breaks down around black holes and dark energy. Prove to me that time actually changes at the speed of light. You can’t. So you are left with math to state its truth. Short actually proof all you have are number to say it happens. But you can’t really prove it. You have to believe the math is right.
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Originally Posted by wildsage Call it faith if you will; it is a belief that everything abides by the natural laws. A chemical reaction will go the same way -- everytime -- if all the variables are controlled. Physical entities are subject to certain forces and must react in certain ways. |
What natural laws? You mean laws that are only observable from earth? This implies that because we have defined these laws that are limited to what we can observe on this earth that they are uniform across the universe. Are these “natural laws” the same inside a black hole? Will a chemical reaction produce the same results in a black hole that it produced on earth? What was the first chemical reaction that spurred on the first inkling of life? Is that still happening? If so, where? If not, what conditions changed? And what were those special condition that, when life did not once exist suddenly came to be? How do you recreate that though a chemical reaction?
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Originally Posted by wildsage Not necessarily; I don't have all the answers. All I can deduce is that if religions hold mutually contradicting beliefs, and one of those beliefs is "true" then the others have to be false. Which one? Pick the one that you feel comfortable with and accept it as religion, just don't try to teach it as fact. |
Either do I. That’s why I don’t dismiss anything. I believe all these factors co-exist. I believe just as we have several dimensions in space and time that there is also a spiritual dimension that science prefers to ignore for reasons I can’t explain. To me it’s less about deciding which religion is right and coming to the conclusion that there is a spiritual world that exists and we should seek it out. I have and believe as a Christian. In the end God will decide who is right.
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Originally Posted by wildsage It is PHENOMENAL that the universe exists, and that life developed as it did. It would be magic if the universe was devoid of energy yet life existed; it would be magic if, in our universe, hydrogen and oxygen didn't combine to form the compound water that has all of its specific properties yet lifeforms as we know them existed anyway. |
What is this energy though? You can’t just say something is there without asking how it got there. What is it that causes hydrogen and oxygen to cling together to form water? Certainly not magic. I mean water is one our more simple compounds and we can’t even explain what energy causes these two elements to cling together in such a perfect manner to form water.
It’s not my intent to disclaim science. I’m simply playing the reverse role of questioning the validity of it in the same way you question the validity of God. I think it’s easy to call into question things we can’t actually observe through our physical senses. It’s difficult to take the leap of faith to believe these things are true. I refuse to limit myself to things that can only be observed through my physical senses. I am always on a path to seek out all things spiritual and physical. Things like faith don’t exist in a vacuum. Real, rational people believe in God and a spiritual plane. There has to be more to it than just magic.