...GM is asking for more of your and my money. Chrysler is a disaster.

How can that be?

Ford never took money to start with, so Ford is able to run their business in such a way as to make money instead of having the operations dictated by some government appointee that cant even balance his own checkbook.

That, and the fact that GM is raping people in their service departments, and giving a hard time with warrenty issues.. Well, lets just say that I am now driving my last GM product, even if I still do like them better.

...GM is asking for more of your and my money. Chrysler is a disaster.

How can that be?But....but...but we bailed them out, didn't we. And according to Obama and his Congress, it worked. :lol:

But....but...but we bailed them out, didn't we. And according to Obama and his Congress, it worked. :lol:

Depends on the definition of 'worked'. :lol:

Depends on the definition of 'worked'. :lol:You know how the left thinks. Even if it was a complete failure, they'll come out with a way to word it to make it sound like it was a success. :lol:

Ford Motor Co. workers have overwhelmingly rejected contract changes that would have allowed the automaker to cut labor costs, leaving Ford at a disadvantage to its Detroit rivals as it continues its struggle to return to profitability.

The United Auto Workers union had given local unions until Monday to complete voting. But a person briefed on the voting said Saturday that the contract changes have been rejected by large margins. The person asked not to be named because the UAW hasn't announced the results yet.

The UAW and Ford agreed to the contract changes several weeks ago, but Ford workers needed to ratify them. Ford has 41,000 UAW-represented workers.

Two large union locals in Kentucky and Ford's home city of Dearborn rejected the contract Friday, sealing its fate. Those unions together represent 13,000 Ford workers. Exact tallies weren't available, but at least 12 UAW locals representing about 27,500 workers so far have vetoed the deal, many overwhelmingly. Only about four locals with a total of 7,000 members favored the pact.

Ford sought the deal to bring its labor costs in line with Detroit rivals Chrysler Group LLC and General Motors Co., both of which won concessions from the union as they headed into bankruptcy protection earlier this year. Under pattern bargaining, the three automakers usually match pay, benefits and other contract provisions.

Ford workers reject contract changes - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Ford-workers-reject-contract-apf-763992348.html?x=0)

This is a problem with which Ford will have to deal.

Ford has Mike Rowe. :hot:

Ford workers reject contract changes - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Ford-workers-reject-contract-apf-763992348.html?x=0)

This is a problem with which Ford will have to deal.

Easy fix..

They can do what Boeing did, or do what every other major manufacurer is doing..

Either move to WORKER friendly state like South Carolina, or move operations to Mexico or overseas.. Either way, they need to say.. "With 10% unemployment and EVERY car maker in danger of going under, we thought you'd be a little more receptive. Being that it's not the case, we have now terminated your position which will now be filled by Juan. Thank for your years of service, and we hope you understand. Any questions please direct them to your local Union office."

Easy fix..

They can do what Boeing did, or do what every other major manufacurer is doing..

Either move to WORKER friendly state like South Carolina, or move operations to Mexico or overseas.. Either way, they need to say.. "With 10% unemployment and EVERY car maker in danger of going under, we thought you'd be a little more receptive. Being that it's not the case, we have now terminated your position which will now be filled by Juan. Thank for your years of service, and we hope you understand. Any questions please direct them to your local Union office."

Or they can just start making superior vehicles and I will gladly pay a little more for one.

You know how the left thinks. Even if it was a complete failure, they'll come out with a way to word it to make it sound like it was a success. :lol:

The name Obama comes to mind! :coffee:

Every car company with UAW involvement is in trouble or soon to be in trouble. Ford has one of the best manufacturing plants in the world and the reason being, it's in Brazil! where the UAW can't get their paws on it!!!

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Or they can just start making superior vehicles and I will gladly pay a little more for one.
They already DO make superior vehicles. Hard as it is for me to say. I am a GM man at heart. But I have been VERY happy with my Focus. 125K miles with only minor issues (broken cable in the A/C control system which is an easy repair when I get around to it and wipers not parking right which I have not gotten around to diagnosing yet since it does not keep them from working). By this point, the transimission was gone on the Pontiac. Honda Pilot has 83K and the A/C fans (front and rear) have both stopped working.

They already DO make superior vehicles. Hard as it is for me to say. I am a GM man at heart. But I have been VERY happy with my Focus. 125K miles with only minor issues (broken cable in the A/C control system which is an easy repair when I get around to it and wipers not parking right which I have not gotten around to diagnosing yet since it does not keep them from working). By this point, the transimission was gone on the Pontiac. Honda Pilot has 83K and the A/C fans (front and rear) have both stopped working.

There's a company up here getting rid of all there Ford pickups after one too many nuisance breakdowns.

And getting Tundra's.

Rednecks giving up and buying Jap.

And the Fusion I rented last summer was fine. Until I hit a speed bump in a parking lot. Felt like the engine was gonna fall out.

:shrug:

Ford has been better run than the other Detroit car makers for a while. Mulally has made good decisions, and decisions have consequences - it really is that simple. Ford cut production sooner and more aggressively when it became clear that economic conditions meant that the inflated unit volumes were unsustainable. They have focused more on core product lines (relatively speaking of course), gotten rid of non-core assets (e.g. Jaguar), and resisted the urge to try to be everything to everyone. They've pushed forward with product development (their way of cutting back to deal with the economy was to cut production, not to cut development - which is the lifeblood of future profitability). Additionally, Mulally was smart enough (or some might say lucky enough) to secure a lot of cash before the credit markets seized up - so Ford was in a better position to make it through the tough times.

All of that said, Ford is at a significant competitive disadvantage to GM and Chrysler, as it wasn't able to 'cheat' its debt-holders like they did, and shed a lot of liabilities through the (quasi) bankruptcy process. So, although Ford has been able to get some voluntary concessions, it still has a significant amount of debt on its balance sheets.

With regard to the Union issue - it is hard for me to refrain from referring to those people who voted against the new contract as despicable. That's because, well, voting against it was despicable. What a bunch of ungrateful, spoiled, unrealistic, exploitive <insert plural derisive noun here>. By Gettlefinger's own admission, the deal that was negotiated with Ford, to the extent that it differed from the GM and Chrysler deals, was even better than those deals. And, those deals were absolute cherries for the UAW. This is the problem, the U.S. government used its full power to make sure that the UAW was taken care of, beyond any reasonable measure, in the GM and Chrysler situations, and that has served to empower them.

Every last one of them should be thrown out on their asses, and left to look for an $8 / hour job at the local 7-11. There are tons of Americans who are just as competent, who would be willing to work just as hard if not harder, and who would do it at a drastic compensation cut from what most of the UAW workers are getting. They should consider themselves very, very lucky - especially given the general economic situation.

Let me say this - I traded Ford stock around the bailout conversation, because I saw them as the safer bet. As it turns out, I was right. I've held on to a little bit of that stock since - as it is essentially free to me at this point. I would gladly lose all of the value I have in that stock if Ford would tell the Union to shove it - close the entire operation up and say call me when you guys are willing to be reasonable. If that meant that the company was lost, and the value of the stock went to $0, I could live with that. It would be worth it in order to be able to stop rewarding the kind of behavior we've seen on the part of the UAW. How they can reject this deal, which would have continued to compensate them at an inflated rate, when so many Americans would love to have any job, is beyond me. If they think they can do better elsewhere, then by all means, they should make it so.

And, those deals were absolute cherries for the UAW. This is the problem, the U.S. government used its full power to make sure that the UAW was taken care of, beyond any reasonable measure, in the GM and Chrysler situations, and that has served to empower them.


Reasonable measure? Our world has become unhinged. What value does the GOP ever bring to the American people again when they bailed out the UAW? By all rights, the UAW should have gone to war for John McCain because of what the GOP did for them.

By all rights, every last left leaning Democrat is this nation should be singing the praises of George Bush; he handed them levers of power it would have taken them another generation or two to gain, if ever.

It is simply stunning the depths to which common sense, market ideas and simple fairness and honesty with the American people has been shattered. The lesson is; be too big to fail. Be part of a team that can gain direct access to the US treasury.

We've seen America come apart at the seems.

Ford has Mike Rowe. :hot:

He plays with poop and sludge. :twitch:

Ford to Extend Revolving Credit, Raise $3 Billion Equity (http://www.cnbc.com/id/33592332)


Ford Motor said on Monday it would pay back in part and extend by two years $10.7 billion of secured debt and issue some $3 billion of stock and equity linked securities to improve its balance sheet.

Ford, which posted a surprise third-quarter profit of nearly $1 billion earlier on Monday, said it would pay down as much as $2.5 billion of its secured debt due in December 2011 and extend the remainder by two years to November 2013.

The moves come as Ford faces pressure to restructure and reduce its long term debt. The automaker borrowed more than $23 billion in late 2006 to finance its restructuring and is the only large U.S. automaker to avoid bankruptcy in 2009.

Reasonable measure? Our world has become unhinged. What value does the GOP ever bring to the American people again when they bailed out the UAW? By all rights, the UAW should have gone to war for John McCain because of what the GOP did for them.

But again, the prior Administration's bail out of the UAW wasn't to be such a cherry deal for them, and it was to be a bail out of the other parties as well as the UAW. Of course, it still wasn't right, but it wasn't as much a straight bail out of the UAW as the current Administration turned it into.

About the UAW supporting McCain because of what the GOP did - I would describe it thusly. Yes, the prior Administration handed out buckets of candy to the children of the UAW. But, it also placed some conditions on getting the candy - it said, 'you have to brush your teeth and be in bed by 11 o'clock like good little boys and girls'. When the current Administration came in, it said, 'ah #### that, the candy's yours - no conditions - stay up all night and don't brush your teeth for a week if you don't want - as a matter of fact, here's some more candy, and cake, and ice cream - you deserve it since you're such nice little spoiled children'.

Guess who had to pay for the extra candy, ice cream and cake - and guess who now has to deal with the spoiled children, their spoiled-ness having been reinforced?

As to the levers of power thing - you already know how I feel about that.

Hate to say it.....:banghead:, Ford has the better mousetrap, and a superior product..jmo.

GM Monthly Sales Increase; Ford Sales Edge Lower (http://www.cnbc.com/id/33603990)

Paul Ingrassia: How Ford Made Its Comeback - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704013004574515531468359594.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLTopStories)

Nice little piece worth reading