...is a total dork in case you haven't seen him on TV as yet.

If you've paid SOME attention, you know he is against gay marriage and is pro life. That's about it.

If you wanna know more, you can find that he is also;

Hoffman believes the Tax Code is corrupt, and that deficits are wrong. He believes that abortion is wrong, that gay marriage is wrong, and he opposes the repeal of don’t ask, don’t tell. He opposes the Employee Free Choice Act, supports the Second Amendment, supports tort reform, opposes health-care reform and the public option, is a strong supporter of the war against terrorism, and opposes cap-and-trade.[10]



So, there is your baseline FYI.


As for his R competition, Dede, she is;

A moderate-to-liberal Republican, Scozzafava is pro-choice and pro-same-sex marriage, [3] but opposes gun control.[4] The latter stance is not surprising given the nature of her district; many North Country residents are hunters and trappers. She also has strong ties to organized labor, something which is not common for most Republicans. In agreement with most Republicans, she is against cap-and-trade[5] and is in favor of the Bush tax cuts and in favor of maintaining them.[6]



Now, she doesn't seem to be all that far left of a candidate absent social issues which are decidedly not the issue these last 8 years. However, the biggest indictment against her is her endorsement of the Democrat in this race.

So, there's your readers digest on these folks.

BTW: Got all this off of wiki. :buddies:

Related but not the actual topic I wonder how Newt feels since he endorsed Dede and chastized conservatives for not supporting her /the party, then she drops out and endorses the Democrat.

If it was 2008, there was someone like Hoffman running for President, and McCain decided to drop out of the race (I know that's a huge hypothetical), who do you think McCain would endorse? Obama or the conservative? Personally, I think he'd back Obama. :shrug:

Related but not the actual topic I wonder how Newt feels since he endorsed Dede and chastized conservatives for not supporting her /the party, then she drops out and endorses the Democrat.

Two schools of thought; just win and principles.

Clearly, politics requires some of both. Too much practicality and what you may win is meaningless. To much principle and you can't expect to govern on very large of a scale.

To me, it is a simple matter of too much of the former and too little of the latter for the GOP these last 8 years. Newt just stuck his foot in a giant turd and he was wrong, way wrong, especially when this was a golden opportunity for principle.

Related but not the actual topic I wonder how Newt feels since he endorsed Dede and chastized conservatives for not supporting her /the party, then she drops out and endorses the Democrat.

What bothers me more than the internal GOP spat is the illustration that, for a significant segment of the GOP, loyalty is a one-way street. Scozzafava has been a Republican for decades. But because she wasn’t conservative enough, national GOP figures threw their support to a third party candidate.

And now that, thoroughly betrayed by her party, she has gone over to the Democrats. And they are lashing out at her again for “betraying” the party that turned its back on her.

This is not the loyalty demonstrated by a political group; that goes both ways. This is the loyalty of a religious movement. All must be loyal to the leaders; the leaders must be loyal to none. If Scozzafava were anti-gay-marriage and anti-abortion, they wouldn’t have had a problem with her

What bothers me more than the internal GOP spat is the illustration that, for a significant segment of the GOP, loyalty is a one-way street. Scozzafava has been a Republican for decades. But because she wasn’t conservative enough, national GOP figures threw their support to a third party candidate.

And now that, thoroughly betrayed by her party, she has gone over to the Democrats. And they are lashing out at her again for “betraying” the party that turned its back on her.

This is not the loyalty demonstrated by a political group; that goes both ways. This is the loyalty of a religious movement. All must be loyal to the leaders; the leaders must be loyal to none. If Scozzafava were anti-gay-marriage and anti-abortion, they wouldn’t have had a problem with her


Good points. However, it seems that what sparked the interest, what drew attention, was her appointment as candidate instead of a primary.

What bothers me more than the internal GOP spat is the illustration that, for a significant segment of the GOP, loyalty is a one-way street. Scozzafava has been a Republican for decades. But because she wasn’t conservative enough, national GOP figures threw their support to a third party candidate.

And now that, thoroughly betrayed by her party, she has gone over to the Democrats. And they are lashing out at her again for “betraying” the party that turned its back on her.



The "party" stood by her. Newt publicly criticized the conservatives that endorsed Hoffman.
The problem is that the party is willing to support a liberal in order to get another "R" on the congressional roll.

What bothers me more than the internal GOP spat is the illustration that, for a significant segment of the GOP, loyalty is a one-way street. Scozzafava has been a Republican for decades. But because she wasn’t conservative enough, national GOP figures threw their support to a third party candidate.

And now that, thoroughly betrayed by her party, she has gone over to the Democrats. And they are lashing out at her again for “betraying” the party that turned its back on her.

This is not the loyalty demonstrated by a political group; that goes both ways. This is the loyalty of a religious movement. All must be loyal to the leaders; the leaders must be loyal to none. If Scozzafava were anti-gay-marriage and anti-abortion, they wouldn’t have had a problem with her

She has never been a loyal Republican, she is a RINO.
Republican RINO Leaders supported her, it was the Conservatives who didnt, A charge led by another person that the RINO's didnt support, Sarah Palin.
The RINO's gave her 900,000 thousand dollars which went in the toilet.

Betrayed by her party?? You mean the party who's principle's she betrayed?
She isnt lashing out because she was betrayed, she endorsed all the principle's of the Democrat she endorsed and endorsed him because she is truly a Democrat to begin with. Your last state ment is probably correct,If Scozzafava were anti-gay-marriage and anti-abortion, they wouldn’t have had a problem with her. But that is the difference between a RINO and a Conservative. We dont endorse these things or anything else she did.

The Republican Leaders in New York chose badly. They got stung.
Good news.

...is a total dork in case you haven't seen him on TV as yet.

If you've paid SOME attention, you know he is against gay marriage and is pro life. That's about it.

If you wanna know more, you can find that he is also;



So, there is your baseline FYI.


As for his R competition, Dede, she is;



Now, she doesn't seem to be all that far left of a candidate absent social issues which are decidedly not the issue these last 8 years. However, the biggest indictment against her is her endorsement of the Democrat in this race.

So, there's your readers digest on these folks.

BTW: Got all this off of wiki. :buddies:

I would have voted for the Dork over the RINO every time. Funny you should call someone a dork because he doesnt believe in gay marriage and is pro life. Lots of those dorks out there.

Maybe I missed the sarcasm tag. he seems to believe a lot in the same things I do.

I didnt see his appearance on TV, maybe that is the basis of your evaluation.

I would have voted for the Dork over the RINO every time. Funny you should call someone a dork because he doesnt believe in gay marriage and is pro life. Lots of those dorks out there.

Maybe I missed the sarcasm tag. he seems to believe a lot in the same things I do.

I didnt see his appearance on TV, maybe that is the basis of your evaluation.

I presume you haven't seen this guy on TV? He's a dork.

I wanted to know where he and she stood on the issues so, I found out. I would vote for him over her.

I would have voted for the Dork over the RINO every time. Funny you should call someone a dork because he doesnt believe in gay marriage and is pro life. Lots of those dorks out there.

Maybe I missed the sarcasm tag. he seems to believe a lot in the same things I do.

I didnt see his appearance on TV, maybe that is the basis of your evaluation.

BINGO! He's a dork because...he is. Just like Steve Forbes is a dork. Nothing to do with beliefs. He's a CPA, so I guess that helps him in his dorkiness.

What bothers me more than the internal GOP spat is the illustration that, for a significant segment of the GOP, loyalty is a one-way street. Scozzafava has been a Republican for decades. But because she wasn’t conservative enough, national GOP figures threw their support to a third party candidate.


I think for the GOP, there are a small number of litmus test issues - fail all of those, and as far as they're concerned, you're a RINO.

For the Democrats, they have some also. Actually, fewer. Fail a single one of those, and you're out. Lieberman supported the war - otherwise, fairly liberal on almost everything else. For that, he got booted from the Democratic ticket.

It may seem unfair, but these are political parties, not social clubs. They exist as a platform of ideas. Otherwise, people could just run on their own.

I knew this girl whose parents were offended that their name was removed from their church roster. They hadn't attended in years, and didn't expect to change that - and they didn't believe in God. But they were offended that the church would REMOVE them. Well, what's the point?

I think for the GOP, there are a small number of litmus test issues - fail all of those, and as far as they're concerned, you're a RINO.

For the Democrats, they have some also. Actually, fewer. Fail a single one of those, and you're out. Lieberman supported the war - otherwise, fairly liberal on almost everything else. For that, he got booted from the Democratic ticket.

It may seem unfair, but these are political parties, not social clubs. They exist as a platform of ideas. Otherwise, people could just run on their own.

I knew this girl whose parents were offended that their name was removed from their church roster. They hadn't attended in years, and didn't expect to change that - and they didn't believe in God. But they were offended that the church would REMOVE them. Well, what's the point?

If the Party had an issue with her, the time to resolve that was the selection process. Its funny you bring up Lieberman, since there are definite parrallels.

The ONLY time the Party got involved was when she was slipping to the Democrat, THEN the party threw in with the Third Party candidate. We can tell this because the Party was the one that nominated Dede.

This is not about the GOP supporting Party Ideals, until she started slipping they supported Dede. If the GOP supported Party Ideals, they should have taken issue with her back in July when the Republican Party fronted her as its candidate in New York.

She has never been a loyal Republican, she is a RINO.
Republican RINO Leaders supported her, it was the Conservatives who didnt, A charge led by another person that the RINO's didnt support, Sarah Palin.
The RINO's gave her 900,000 thousand dollars which went in the toilet.

Betrayed by her party?? You mean the party who's principle's she betrayed?
She isnt lashing out because she was betrayed, she endorsed all the principle's of the Democrat she endorsed and endorsed him because she is truly a Democrat to begin with. Your last state ment is probably correct,If Scozzafava were anti-gay-marriage and anti-abortion, they wouldn’t have had a problem with her. But that is the difference between a RINO and a Conservative. We dont endorse these things or anything else she did.

The Republican Leaders in New York chose badly. They got stung.
Good news.
Besides Abortion and Gay Marriage how was she a RINO?

Besides Abortion and Gay Marriage how was she a RINO?

Supports Card Check :shrug:

Related but not the actual topic I wonder how Newt feels since he endorsed Dede and chastized conservatives for not supporting her /the party, then she drops out and endorses the Democrat.

He's already addressed this:

Link (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZDBhMGU0YzI3ODE4NTIxNDczZjVjMDQ3YjFkNmJjNTY=)

Tuesday, October 20, 2009

Gingrich: ‘If you seek to be a perfect minority, you’ll remain a minority’ [Robert Costa]

Former House speaker Newt Gingrich tells NRO that he is sure that endorsing Republican Dede Scozzafava in the upcoming special election in New York’s 23rd congressional district was the right thing to do. “I endorsed the Republican who has been endorsed by the National Rifle Association, opposes the Obama health plan, signed the ‘no-tax-increase’ pledge, and supports a comprehensive energy plan like I do,” says Gingrich.

Can someone explain why she's a RINO, using factual voting records and bills, and not Michelle Malkins hyperbole?

He's already addressed this:

Can someone explain why she's a RINO, using factual voting records and bills, and not Michelle Malkins hyperbole?

Why is she a RINO..... Has nothing to do with Malkins "hyperbole" as you say. I have watched the left on CNN call her a liberal republican. What does that mean? It means she could probably run as a democrat. Sounds like her and her husband she be running under the communist party affiliation...like most democrats.


GOP Candidate Scozzafava, Husband Have Ties to Union-Backed ACORN Front
Submitted by Carl Horowitz on Mon, 10/26/2009 - 17:29

ACORN conferenceThe political blogosphere has been exploding these past couple weeks over a special congressional election in an unlikely portion of upstate New York. A key reason is the connections between the Republican candidate, Dede Scozzafava, and the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, a virtual adjunct to the more reprehensible sectors of the Democratic Party. An ACORN front group, the Working Families Party (WFP), on October 9 formally endorsed the Democratic opponent in this tight three-person race. But the WFP has endorsed Scozzafava more than once in the past. And a major reason is that her husband, Ron McDougall, is an organizer for one of the unions that created the party back in the late Nineties. Scozzafava has yet to repudiate either ACORN or the WFP.

It's impossible to ignore the ethical train wreck that is ACORN. More than any other organization, it's where Leftism and corruption converge in the service of political ambition. The New Orleans-based nonprofit network, which claims more than 400,000 member households in 1,200 chapters, operates under its own name and through 360 front groups. ACORN and its affiliates have been at the center of official investigations into voter registration fraud, tax evasion, embezzlement and other felonies. In the case of voter registration fraud, ACORN operatives in several states already have pleaded guilty to running scams. The IRS and the Census Bureau, if perhaps more out of damage control than principle, announced several weeks ago they would cease their respective partnerships with ACORN. The House and Senate each voted to cut off funds, though final legislation has not been approved.


GOP Candidate Scozzafava, Husband Have Ties to Union-Backed ACORN Front | National Legal and Policy Center (http://www.nlpc.org/stories/2009/10/26/gop-candidate-scozzafava-husband-have-ties-union-backed-acorn-front)

Supports Card Check :shrug:
Really? She clearly stated she supports it?

Or she is on the record for both supporting and opposing it?

Why is she a RINO..... Has nothing to do with Malkins "hyperbole" as you say. I have watched the left on CNN call her a liberal republican. What does that mean? It means she could probably run as a democrat. Sounds like her and her husband she be running under the communist party affiliation...like most democrats.

And yet that was enough for you to vote for McCain :killingme

Do you have any idea of what her actual record is, versus the hyperbole of what others have said her record is?

You do understand the difference?

GOP Candidate Scozzafava, Husband Have Ties to Union-Backed ACORN Front
Submitted by Carl Horowitz on Mon, 10/26/2009 - 17:29

ACORN conferenceThe political blogosphere has been exploding these past couple weeks over a special congressional election in an unlikely portion of upstate New York. A key reason is the connections between the Republican candidate, Dede Scozzafava, and the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, a virtual adjunct to the more reprehensible sectors of the Democratic Party. An ACORN front group, the Working Families Party (WFP), on October 9 formally endorsed the Democratic opponent in this tight three-person race. But the WFP has endorsed Scozzafava more than once in the past. And a major reason is that her husband, Ron McDougall, is an organizer for one of the unions that created the party back in the late Nineties. Scozzafava has yet to repudiate either ACORN or the WFP.

It's impossible to ignore the ethical train wreck that is ACORN. More than any other organization, it's where Leftism and corruption converge in the service of political ambition. The New Orleans-based nonprofit network, which claims more than 400,000 member households in 1,200 chapters, operates under its own name and through 360 front groups. ACORN and its affiliates have been at the center of official investigations into voter registration fraud, tax evasion, embezzlement and other felonies. In the case of voter registration fraud, ACORN operatives in several states already have pleaded guilty to running scams. The IRS and the Census Bureau, if perhaps more out of damage control than principle, announced several weeks ago they would cease their respective partnerships with ACORN. The House and Senate each voted to cut off funds, though final legislation has not been approved.


GOP Candidate Scozzafava, Husband Have Ties to Union-Backed ACORN Front | National Legal and Policy Center (http://www.nlpc.org/stories/2009/10/26/gop-candidate-scozzafava-husband-have-ties-union-backed-acorn-front)
And the above is a perfect example. She was not on the Working Families endorsement line when she ran for election in 2002 or re-election in 2006. The only times she was endorsed by WFP was in 2004 and 2008. In both elections, she ran unopposed. Therefore, the WFP endorsements were more by default than anything and it’s not as if she had to fight for those endorsements with another candidate.

Notice she isnt endorsed in this election? Also the rest of the article has nothing to do with her endorsements by WFP but a rehash about Acorn. Implying she has something to do with Acorn by association.

Repbulican George Maziariz (http://www.nysenate.gov/senator/george-d-maziarz) is also endorsed by WFP, where is your outrage?

And the above is a perfect example. She was not on the Working Families endorsement line when she ran for election in 2002 or re-election in 2006. The only times she was endorsed by WFP was in 2004 and 2008. In both elections, she ran unopposed. Therefore, the WFP endorsements were more by default than anything and it’s not as if she had to fight for those endorsements with another candidate.

Notice she isnt endorsed in this election? Also the rest of the article has nothing to do with her endorsements by WFP but a rehash about Acorn. Implying she has something to do with Acorn by association.

Repbulican George Maziariz (http://www.nysenate.gov/senator/george-d-maziarz) is also endorsed by WFP, where is your outrage?


So because another (probably liberal) republican took the endorsement means what exactly?

The fact is that her husband was involved in creation of the "orginization" who agenda reads like a palybook for the communist party USA

Working Families (http://www.workingfamiliesparty.org/)

So they did not endorse her every time. SO what. They endorsed her several times. That's enough to earn the RINO branding.

Unfortunatey enough other people looked at Hoffman as a dork and he lost.

It isnt surprising, a lot of effort and money was sent into New York by the Obama folks. It was one they really wanted and they got it.

It wont mean anything in the vote from New York as Scuzzy flovor would have voted the same way as Owen anyway. Yet: it is still a loss .

Hopefully the GOP learned something.

Unfortunatey enough other people looked at Hoffman as a dork and he lost.

Could be. Maybe you should look at what THEY say? The rst of your point is non sense. Obama poured money and time into VA and NJ as well.

I suspect they didn't like that he doesn't even live in the district. :buddies:

Unfortunatey enough other people looked at Hoffman as a dork and he lost.

It isnt surprising, a lot of effort and money was sent into New York by the Obama folks. It was one they really wanted and they got it.

It wont mean anything in the vote from New York as Scuzzy flovor would have voted the same way as Owen anyway. Yet: it is still a loss .

Hopefully the GOP learned something.


yes but BHO did not campaign there. That is worth more than money.

yes but BHO did not campaign there. That is worth more than money.

Tell that to Corzine as he is packing up his desk.

Could be. Maybe you should look at what THEY say? The rst of your point is non sense. Obama poured money and time into VA and NJ as well.

I suspect they didn't like that he doesn't even live in the district. :buddies:

Since when does residency mean anything to New Yorkers, they love carpet baggers.

You are saying that the money the Democrats poured in didnt matter? You are saying Scuzzy flavor wouldnt have voted with the democrats? Which part is nonsense? I would say a good 50% of the people who voted for him didnt even know what district he came from. His late entry and name recognition hurt him, probably more than anything else.

Since when does residency mean anything to New Yorkers, they love carpet baggers.

You are saying that the money the Democrats poured in didnt matter? You are saying Scuzzy flavor wouldnt have voted with the democrats? Which part is nonsense? I would say a good 50% of the people who voted for him didnt even know what district he came from. His late entry and name recognition hurt him, probably more than anything else.

Point being that they had their reasons, be what they may, to not support him. If Obama effort and Obama money was decisive, then he wins NJ and VA, going away. So, your theory is blowed up, yes?

So because another (probably liberal) republican took the endorsement means what exactly?

The fact is that her husband was involved in creation of the "orginization" who agenda reads like a palybook for the communist party USA

Working Families (http://www.workingfamiliesparty.org/)

So they did not endorse her every time. SO what. They endorsed her several times. That's enough to earn the RINO branding.

In other words you do not know the background and instead let yourself be led based on others hyperbole.

She was also endorsed, numerous times, by the NRA, does that fit into the playbook for the communist party USA?