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forestal
09-01-2007, 02:19 PM
Land of the paranoid (http://rawstory.com//news/2007/Flight_detained_when_IraqiAmericans_speak_in_0831.html)

Iraqi-Americans removed from flight for speaking Arabic

NBC News reported Thursday on an incident at the San Diego airport in which "an American airlines flight to Chicago was delayed because a passenger was scared of several Arabic-speaking men on board."

"Those men she heard talking? They were Iraqi-Americans, in town to train US Marines at Camp Pendleton," explained NBC's Brian Williams. The men were removed from the plane and questioned briefly before being released. The flight was canceled and all passengers caught other flights the next day.

aps45819
09-01-2007, 02:29 PM
Believe it or not, but that makes more sense than frisking your grandmother and taking away her knitting needles

forestal
09-02-2007, 05:04 PM
Not really. Knitting needles are a dangerous weapon.

The Arabic Language isn't. It just goes to show how stupid the American Public is.


Believe it or not, but that makes more sense than frisking your grandmother and taking away her knitting needles

rack'm
09-02-2007, 05:09 PM
In todays times, they should of known that talking in their native tongue is a bad thing, they should of spoke English.

aps45819
09-02-2007, 05:12 PM
Not really. Knitting needles are a dangerous weapon.

The Arabic Language isn't. It just goes to show how stupid the American Public is.
Yes really
When a gray haired, 70 year old 100 lb woman has a set of knitting needles I don't fear that she will assualt me.
ALL hijackings and bombings done on US territory in the last 10 years were committed by young middle eastern males.

What's stupid is ignoring that
Thanks for being publicly stupid AGAIN :lol:

nhboy
09-02-2007, 05:39 PM
In todays times, they should of known that talking in their native tongue is a bad thing, they should of spoke English.

You are correct, it is their fault. They should have known better. This is a failing that many Iraqi-Americans have. The challenge is that even if they HAD spoken English they would have spoken with a disagreeable accent and the result would most probably have been the same. Moreover, some domestic citizens have difficulty expressing themselves in their native tongue and that puts them at a disadvantage when traveling on an American aircraft.

Here's what the U.S. Department of State had to say about it in 2006.

IRAQ FOCUS: Report Says Iraqi Language May Be Barrier
March 26th, 2006
WASHINGTON, DC -- A new State Department report released this week said that language barriers may be one factor in the country's reconstruction woes.
"Iraqis use a strange, incomprehensible series of meaningless phonemes to communicate. Needless to say, it's very difficult to understand," the report said. "Iraqis may communicate much more efficiently with a language like English, which is easy to learn and use."
State Department Deputy Secretary Ronald Zoellick explained, "There may in fact be no one 'Iraqi language,' but they may even speak a number of different strange languages, if you can believe that. All the more reason for them to standardize on the English language for their own use."

vegmom
09-02-2007, 07:10 PM
Land of the paranoid (http://rawstory.com//news/2007/Flight_detained_when_IraqiAmericans_speak_in_0831.html)

Iraqi-Americans removed from flight for speaking Arabic

NBC News reported Thursday on an incident at the San Diego airport in which "an American airlines flight to Chicago was delayed because a passenger was scared of several Arabic-speaking men on board."

"Those men she heard talking? They were Iraqi-Americans, in town to train US Marines at Camp Pendleton," explained NBC's Brian Williams. The men were removed from the plane and questioned briefly before being released. The flight was canceled and all passengers caught other flights the next day.

Wonder if the flight was bound for Dearborn?

vraiblonde
09-02-2007, 08:49 PM
In todays times, they should of known that talking in their native tongue is a bad thing, they should of spoke English.
Agree. Normally I don't care when people speak a foreign language (unless I want to evesdrop) but you'd think Ayrabs in today's environment would be aware that we don't really like them all that much anymore.

Dork
09-02-2007, 09:04 PM
Not really. Knitting needles are a dangerous weapon.

The Arabic Language isn't. It just goes to show how stupid the American Public is.

Yeah, you're right Forcedstool. Middle Easterners flying on our planes would never hurt us, would they? I've never trusted those little old ladies though. They are dangerous.

This just goes to show us how stupid you are.

Kerad
09-02-2007, 09:06 PM
:jameo: :jameo: :jameo:

Christy
09-02-2007, 09:07 PM
It just goes to show how stupid the American Public is.

Just as stupid as American women having to cover themselves in many Muslim Nations. :shrug:

I believe that one should always try and be sensitive to the culture they are in. It goes both ways ya know?

Kerad
09-02-2007, 09:16 PM
Huh.

Well, as I remember, Timothy McVeigh was a Redneck American.

Soooo...

Everytime we see a Redneck American in a moving truck...we should call the cops.


Everytime I hear a redneck accent...off we go!!!

:jameo: :jameo: :jameo:




USA! USA! USA!!!

:patriot:

Christy
09-02-2007, 09:24 PM
Huh.

Well, as I remember, Timothy McVeigh was a Redneck American.

Soooo...

Everytime we see a Redneck American in a moving truck...we should call the cops.


Everytime I hear a redneck accent...off we go!!!

:jameo: :jameo: :jameo:




USA! USA! USA!!!

:patriot:


Timothy McVeigh wasn't on an airplane. Besides, there is still plenty of hysteria and suspicion that goes on when it comes to redneck Americans. It's called the anti-gun movement. :razz:

Kerad
09-02-2007, 09:27 PM
Timothy McVeigh wasn't on an airplane. Besides, there is still plenty of hysteria and suspicion that goes on when it comes to redneck Americans. It's called the anti-gun movement. :razz:

:lmao:

So...just for the sake of conversation...

Seeing a couple of country boys driving a Ryder truck into the city wouldn't make you think twice? While hearing an arab language on a plane would?

Do you not see a "thing" , there?

Christy
09-02-2007, 09:30 PM
And besides Kerad, it isn't if they were drug off the plane, strip searched, and thrown into the clink. They were briefly questioned and they went on their way. Why is that so absurd to you? The whities get it all of the time. I know several caucasions who are pulled aside for questioning every single time they try and get on an airplane because their name matches a name on the no fly list.

Christy
09-02-2007, 09:35 PM
:lmao:

So...just for the sake of conversation...

Seeing a couple of country boys driving a Ryder truck into the city wouldn't make you think twice? While hearing an arab language on a plane would?

Do you not see a "thing" , there?

Quite frankly, I wouldn't think twice about either scenario, but I don't think it's that big of a deal that it may unnerve someone else. I think the whole issue is being hugely blown out of proportion. People get questioned every day at airports all over the world, not just in the US. BFD. :shrug:

Kerad
09-02-2007, 09:36 PM
And besides Kerad, it isn't if they were drug off the plane, strip searched, and thrown into the clink. They were briefly questioned and they went on their way. Why is that so absurd to you? The whities get it all of the time. I know several caucasions who are pulled aside for questioning every single time they try and get on an airplane because their name matches a name on the no fly list.

:nono:

That's not the point.

The point is...I guess...that since 9/11, being suspicious of every Muslim on a plane is "natural".

I understand...and I don't argue that.



However....after the Oklahoma City bombing...

Why isn't it just as "natural" to be suspicious of Rednecks in a Ryder truck? Or Rednecks near a federal building?

There are a hell of a lot more Rednecks in America then Muslims.

What should we do about them?

Christy
09-02-2007, 09:45 PM
:nono:

That's not the point.

The point is...I guess...that since 9/11, being suspicious of every Muslim on a plane is "natural".

I understand...and I don't argue that.



However....after the Oklahoma City bombing...

Why isn't it just as "natural" to be suspicious of Rednecks in a Ryder truck? Or Rednecks near a federal building?

There are a hell of a lot more Rednecks in America then Muslims.

What should we do about them?

It is the point, and you are grasping at straws when you compare the two. After the Oklahoma City bombing, they were looking for suspicious rednecks. They found him and put him to death if memory serves me correctly. :shrug:

The fact of the matter is, it was Muslim men who were hijackers, and to play the apologist and completely ignore that as a factor in "profiling" is foolish to say the least.

And as a side note, I imagine there are many more redneck Americans questioned prior to boarding an airplane than Muslims, all due to not wanting to "profile' and get the Muslim community in a snit.

Dork
09-02-2007, 09:51 PM
:nono:

That's not the point.

The point is...I guess...that since 9/11, being suspicious of every Muslim on a plane is "natural".

I understand...and I don't argue that.



However....after the Oklahoma City bombing...

Why isn't it just as "natural" to be suspicious of Rednecks in a Ryder truck? Or Rednecks near a federal building?

There are a hell of a lot more Rednecks in America then Muslims.

What should we do about them?


Here's a question for you. Who is a bigger threat to us in 2007? A redneck or a group of radical muslims? Most rednecks just wanna kill a deer or two in the fall. Most RADICAL muslims want to kill us all. Not all Muslims, but a large enough group that we need to watch out. Timothy McVeigh was a dangerous messed up redneck but most are harmless unless you are a wild turkey or deer.

Kerad
09-02-2007, 09:53 PM
It is the point, and you are grasping at straws when you compare the two. After the Oklahoma City bombing, they were looking for suspicious rednecks. They found him and put him to death if memory serves me correctly. :shrug:

The fact of the matter is, it was Muslim men who were hijackers, and to play the apologist and completely ignore that as a factor in "profiling" is foolish to say the least.

And as a side note, I imagine there are many more redneck Americans questioned prior to boarding an airplane than Muslims, all due to not wanting to "profile' and get the Muslim community in a snit.

I'm really not arguing with you...but I say if we are going to profile (as a country)...we need to get on board and stretch the search for all profiles.

That would make us safer...yes?


We should profile against Muslims for hijacking planes with boxcutters.

We should profile against Rednecks for bombing federal buildings.

We should profile against husbands for killing wives.

We should profile against African-Americans for killing African-Americans.

We should profile against European-Americans for killing European -Americans.


We would profile against European- Americans for killing American-Americans...but we pretty much killed them all long ago...so....eh.




I think I made my point....

Christy
09-02-2007, 10:00 PM
I think I made my point....

I think you are making a stretch. I also think the whole issue was blown out of proportion. I imagine there are concerns that are investigated on a daily basis, people taken off of planes and questioned, Muslim or Redneck Whitey. Hell you even have politicians (who get all indignant and cry like little girls about it) pulled aside and questioned.

It is the nature of the beast, and it's not that big of a deal. If you're not a terrorist, then you don't have anything to worry about when they ask you what your business is. :shrug:

Kerad
09-02-2007, 10:11 PM
I think you are making a stretch. I also think the whole issue was blown out of proportion. I imagine there are concerns that are investigated on a daily basis, people taken off of planes and questioned, Muslim or Redneck Whitey. Hell you even have politicians (who get all indignant and cry like little girls about it) pulled aside and questioned.

It is the nature of the beast, and it's not that big of a deal. If you're not a terrorist, then you don't have anything to worry about when they ask you what your business is. :shrug:

Again...I'll agree with you.

It's not a big deal to me if I get yanked off a plane if someone thinks I'm a terrorist because "Enter Sandman" was leaking out of my earphones.

But look at what it does. It's a big deal.. It cancels flights...it makes national news. Why? Because some paranoid freakshow had a spaz attack.

So the whole flight gets canceled, has to stay overnight, and rebooked the next day. Which causes another flight to get boinked. Etc...etc.


I've said it many times before in other threads...so it's not at all this one that makes me say it.

Still...the terrorists have already won. They won long ago. Their goal was to make us afraid of living our everyday lives in a free society.



They won. :ohwell:

Pete
09-02-2007, 10:26 PM
Again...I'll agree with you.

It's not a big deal to me if I get yanked off a plane if someone thinks I'm a terrorist because "Enter Sandman" was leaking out of my earphones.

But look at what it does. It's a big deal.. It cancels flights...it makes national news. Why? Because some paranoid freakshow had a spaz attack.

So the whole flight gets canceled, has to stay overnight, and rebooked the next day. Which causes another flight to get boinked. Etc...etc.


I've said it many times before in other threads...so it's not at all this one that makes me say it.

Still...the terrorists have already won. They won long ago. Their goal was to make us afraid of living our everyday lives in a free society.



They won. :ohwell:
And the option is? Live with total ambivalence to terrorism and die in droves as so not to upset someones sensitive feelings?

Kerad
09-02-2007, 10:31 PM
And the option is? Live with total ambivalence to terrorism and die in droves as so not to upset someones sensitive feelings?

Well, if your idea of being vigilant is freaking out everytime we hear a foreign language...then there is no solution, is there.

God forbid if Bin Laden gets smart enough to pay off some British losers...some Asians...some Texans...

Then what?

Christy
09-02-2007, 11:06 PM
They won. :ohwell:

I think you're being a bit dramatic. :drama:

I still don't see what all the fuss is about. :ohwell:

Kerad
09-02-2007, 11:15 PM
I think you're being a bit dramatic. :drama:

I still don't see what all the fuss is about. :ohwell:


ME?!?!?!

DRAMATIC!!!!???!!!!

Well...I NEVER!!!!!

:drama:


Oh...it's about ARAB SPEAKING MEN ON A PLANE!!!!!!!


:jameo: :jameo: :jameo:

vraiblonde
09-03-2007, 08:20 AM
Why is Timothy McVeigh classified as a redneck? :confused:

vraiblonde
09-03-2007, 08:24 AM
Anyway, let's pretend he is for a minute since it seems to suit some bizarre purpose:

Did Timothy McVeigh take out the Murrah Bldg in the name of redneckery?

No.

Did he do it at the command of other rednecks?

No.

Are other rednecks praising him and hailing him as a hero?

No.

Are those non-praising, non-hailing rednecks perpetrating more attacks?

No.

Was Timothy McVeigh apprehended by his own government and put to death by a jury of his peers?

Yes.

So Kerad, you're being stupid and your argument makes no sense.

forestal
09-03-2007, 08:30 AM
Certainly Bush hasn't helped the situation, tying Iraq to 9/11 any chance he gets. I'm certain that this has subliminally worked its way in the the American psyche so that our arabic xenophobia is in prime form.


:nono:

That's not the point.

The point is...I guess...that since 9/11, being suspicious of every Muslim on a plane is "natural".

I understand...and I don't argue that.



However....after the Oklahoma City bombing...

Why isn't it just as "natural" to be suspicious of Rednecks in a Ryder truck? Or Rednecks near a federal building?

There are a hell of a lot more Rednecks in America then Muslims.

What should we do about them?

forestal
09-03-2007, 08:32 AM
Yeh, well it wasn't you pulled off the airplane because passengers were irrationally afraid of your language and skin color.

It's no big deal because it wasn't YOU taken away.


I think you are making a stretch. I also think the whole issue was blown out of proportion. I imagine there are concerns that are investigated on a daily basis, people taken off of planes and questioned, Muslim or Redneck Whitey. Hell you even have politicians (who get all indignant and cry like little girls about it) pulled aside and questioned.

It is the nature of the beast, and it's not that big of a deal. If you're not a terrorist, then you don't have anything to worry about when they ask you what your business is. :shrug:

Dork
09-03-2007, 08:55 AM
Certainly Bush hasn't helped the situation, tying Iraq to 9/11 any chance he gets. I'm certain that this has subliminally worked its way in the the American psyche so that our arabic xenophobia is in prime form.


Forcedstool. You spew so much anger and hatred torward President Bush. What has he done that has directly affected your life? Why so much anger? To not like him is very common among Americans, but your feelings obviously go far beyond that.

Christy
09-03-2007, 12:21 PM
Yeh, well it wasn't you pulled off the airplane because passengers were irrationally afraid of your language and skin color.

It's no big deal because it wasn't YOU taken away.

Quit being daft. :duh: BFD if I were removed and questioned. Again, they were removed from the plane, questioned, and sent on their way. This happens all of the time with all different colors, races, languages etc.. YOU are being irrationally hysterical and making mountains out of molehills.

RadioPatrol
09-03-2007, 02:07 PM
:nono:

That's not the point.

The point is...I guess...that since 9/11, being suspicious of every Muslim on a plane is "natural".

I understand...and I don't argue that.



However....after the Oklahoma City bombing...

Why isn't it just as "natural" to be suspicious of Rednecks in a Ryder truck? Or Rednecks near a federal building?

There are a hell of a lot more Rednecks in America then Muslims.

What should we do about them?


#### Off ....... everyone got hassled when JL Malvo was killing people all over the DC Area ........ I know I got searched twice :smack:


I know another forumite living in Bowie across from the elementary school where the boy was shot ...... had his SUV searched, with his consent or knowledge during the search, cause he owns a .223 Daewoo K1

state police pulled gun sale records and started searching for anyone who had purchased a weapon in .223 or 5.56 mm :whistle:

SamSpade
09-04-2007, 07:03 AM
NBC News reported Thursday on an incident at the San Diego airport in which "an American airlines flight to Chicago was delayed because a passenger was scared of several Arabic-speaking men on board."

I highly recommend speaking Chechen on a Russian flight. It's lots of fun.

Mikeinsmd
09-04-2007, 07:31 AM
:blahblah:
Speak english in America and have no problem. How hard is that? :duh:

Hey pukeface, here's what your friendly muslims do to those who won't follow them. Warning: Very graphic. Gott love those kooky muslims eh stool?? :lmao: :smack:

http://www.zombietime.com/thai_jihad_photos/

To the defenders of the muslims on here...... find me some recent photos of similar acts performed by other religious fanatics in the name of their religion. KILL EM ALL!!!! :patriot:

Thanks to the person who sent to me. :yay:

Mikeinsmd
09-04-2007, 07:36 AM
However....after the Oklahoma City bombing...

Why isn't it just as "natural" to be suspicious of Rednecks in a Ryder truck? Or Rednecks near a federal building?

There are a hell of a lot more Rednecks in America then Muslims.

What should we do about them?
And to think I included you in those lefties who could hold their own in here..... I won't make that blunder again. Thanks for proving what an idiot you are. :lmao:

AndyMarquisLIVE
09-04-2007, 07:37 AM
#### Off ....... everyone got hassled when JL Malvo was killing people all over the DC Area ........ I know I got searched twice :smack:


I know another forumite living in Bowie across from the elementary school where the boy was shot ...... had his SUV searched, with his consent or knowledge during the search, cause he owns a .223 Daewoo K1

state police pulled gun sale records and started searching for anyone who had purchased a weapon in .223 or 5.56 mm :whistle:
I remember on Day 2, MSNBC, NBC News reported a Blue Caprice. Then, it became a white box truck and everybody searched for a white box truck (which are EVERYWHERE in DC).

I actually remember when the boy was shot. I knew his girlfriend (at the time). Talk about a nervous wreck.

AndyMarquisLIVE
09-04-2007, 07:41 AM
:nono:

That's not the point.

The point is...I guess...that since 9/11, being suspicious of every Muslim on a plane is "natural".

I understand...and I don't argue that.



However....after the Oklahoma City bombing...

Why isn't it just as "natural" to be suspicious of Rednecks in a Ryder truck? Or Rednecks near a federal building?

There are a hell of a lot more Rednecks in America then Muslims.

What should we do about them?
GET OUT OF MY FACE :lmao:

Timothy McVeigh wasn't 5 men sitting on a plane talking (in a foriegn ####in language, ARABIC, imagine that :jet:) about how they were going to smash planes into a side of a building.

So, you're somehow translating that into 2 rednecks sitting in a Ryder truck. How about 6 rednecks watching a football game. 6 rednecks watching the Daytona 500, oh we should be so scared of that. They might be planning one hell of a party if Junyer wins. :jet:

CAPPY2609
09-04-2007, 07:44 AM
Yes really
When a gray haired, 70 year old 100 lb woman has a set of knitting needles I don't fear that she will assualt me.
ALL hijackings and bombings done on US territory in the last 10 years were committed by young middle eastern males.

What's stupid is ignoring that
Thanks for being publicly stupid AGAIN :lol:

oklahoma city, but thanks for playing......

AndyMarquisLIVE
09-04-2007, 07:52 AM
Speak english in America and have no problem. How hard is that? :duh:

Hey pukeface, here's what your friendly muslims do to those who won't follow them. Warning: Very graphic. Gott love those kooky muslims eh stool?? :lmao: :smack:

http://www.zombietime.com/thai_jihad_photos/

To the defenders of the muslims on here...... find me some recent photos of similar acts performed by other religious fanatics in the name of their religion. KILL EM ALL!!!! :patriot:

Thanks to the person who sent to me. :yay:
I knew when I saw you posted on here that it would be rich.

ylexot
09-04-2007, 08:02 AM
oklahoma city, but thanks for playing......
He said "in the last 10 years". Oklahoma City was in 1995...over 10 years ago. :shrug:

CAPPY2609
09-04-2007, 08:04 AM
Honestly, despite the terror attacks on US soil.... is the fear justified? Statistically the odds of being killed in a terror attack are lower than winning the lottery. We're all more likely to be killed by a firearm held by one of our own countrymen, or a drunk driver, but we let our buddies do it or do it ourselves, or obesity induced diabetes and/or heart problems. :coffee:
This is yellow peril, and red menace hysteria all over again. Are we supposed to just incarcerate people who just "might" happen to somehow be bad guys? Ask the japanese decended AMERICAN CITIZENS who were herded into camps because of the same ignorant fear. This kind of hallucinatory "fear" is just what the terrorist AND the government want you to experience. Its easier to get you to go along with unpopular plans if you somehow think bad guys are behind every tree and airplane seat.

PsyOps
09-04-2007, 08:22 AM
Not really. Knitting needles are a dangerous weapon.

The Arabic Language isn't. It just goes to show how stupid the American Public is.

I see, the American public, as a whole, is stupid because the all-mighty and wise Forestal said so... :notworthy

I wonder how stupid you would be calling the American public if those Arabs, speaking in their native language, were talking about their plans to blow that plane up, did blow it up and crashed it to the ground killing eveyone on board.

D@mn stupid Americans. :bigwhoop:

PsyOps
09-04-2007, 08:27 AM
:nono:

That's not the point.

The point is...I guess...that since 9/11, being suspicious of every Muslim on a plane is "natural".

I understand...and I don't argue that.



However....after the Oklahoma City bombing...

Why isn't it just as "natural" to be suspicious of Rednecks in a Ryder truck? Or Rednecks near a federal building?

There are a hell of a lot more Rednecks in America then Muslims.

What should we do about them?

Because that happened once. This world has experienced multiple hijackings by Muslims, countless bombings by Muslims, countless beheadings by Mulsims, and mulitple attacks on Americans (world wide) by Muslims.

I can't believe things have to be spelled out for you.

Okay, nevermind.... yes I can.

aps45819
09-04-2007, 08:29 AM
Honestly, despite the terror attacks on US soil.... is the fear justified? :
This is yellow peril, and red menace hysteria all over again. Are we supposed to just incarcerate people who just "might" happen to somehow be bad guys? Ask the japanese decended AMERICAN CITIZENS who were herded into camps because of the same ignorant fear. This kind of hallucinatory "fear" is just what the terrorist AND the government want you to experience. Its easier to get you to go along with unpopular plans if you somehow think bad guys are behind every tree and airplane seat.
You do realize that a small group of men matching the description of the gentlemen removed from the plane carried out an attack on American civilians that killed more people than the attack on Pearl Harbor.

PsyOps
09-04-2007, 08:42 AM
Honestly, despite the terror attacks on US soil.... is the fear justified? Statistically the odds of being killed in a terror attack are lower than winning the lottery. We're all more likely to be killed by a firearm held by one of our own countrymen, or a drunk driver, but we let our buddies do it or do it ourselves, or obesity induced diabetes and/or heart problems. :coffee:


Could it be because of the very vigilance Americans are using in this case that the statistics are what you claim? Ever consider that?


This is yellow peril, and red menace hysteria all over again. Are we supposed to just incarcerate people who just "might" happen to somehow be bad guys? Ask the japanese decended AMERICAN CITIZENS who were herded into camps because of the same ignorant fear. This kind of hallucinatory "fear" is just what the terrorist AND the government want you to experience. Its easier to get you to go along with unpopular plans if you somehow think bad guys are behind every tree and airplane seat.

Once again, ever consider that if we hadn’t “herded” the Japanese into camps that many of them may have turned out to be supporting the Japanese effort? Have you considered this, as ugly as that decision may appear, saved this country from an internal attack? There was nothing hallucinatory about those 19 that WERE ignored, that capitalized on our complacency and ignorance. I would rather operate on a premise of vigilant “hallucinatory fear” than unadulterated ignorance and complacency. Seems some of you would prefer to return to those days believing that if we just pretend the problem doesn’t exist, it will just go away. Ever turn your back on a rabid dog?

If you stop believing they are behind every tree and airplane seat, then they will be. Isn’t this why you lock up your house before you go to bed?

PsyOps
09-04-2007, 08:52 AM
Yeh, well it wasn't you pulled off the airplane because passengers were irrationally afraid of your language and skin color.

It's no big deal because it wasn't YOU taken away.

Oh, so now it's a racial thing. You know, I heard you lefties state, time and time again, that Iraq wasn't worth our sacrifice. Can I imply that it's because of their skin color that makes them less worthy of freedom?

Oh and, please explain what's more irrational

1) Your obsessive fear that Bush is coming to get you

or

2) Our fear that we may experience another attack by Arabs.

The title of this thread that you started is "Paranoid America" and it's quite evident who is paranoid.

Larry Gude
09-04-2007, 09:05 AM
There was nothing hallucinatory about those 19 that WERE ignored,

...ignored, at all. The flight schools had reported them. The FBI was looking into them. The CIA and military intel were on them.

Now, the CIA and miltary intel are forbidden to operate on US soil. So, they passed on what they had to the FBI.

The FBI was investigating these guys. The FBI saw reason for more investigation. The FBI asked for surveillance and wanted to go ahck their computers. The FBI's lawyers said 'no'; you can not use intel gathered by the CIA/,mil intel. It is not legal. The FBI sought a ruling from Justice.

Justice, in the person of Janet Reno assistant or deputy AG or whatever, Jamie Gorelick, wrote a memo reaffirming the legal 'wall' between the left hand, the CIA, and the right hand, the FBI.

The FBI was out of business on Atta and the others. They were not ignored. They were not missed. They weren't sneaking around undetected.

Quite a few people in the FBI, CIA and other places watched 9/11 unfold with a certain grim, ill feeling frustration of "I told you so".

Gorelick went on to serve, insanely, on the 9/11 commission.

In short, we do not need to be living with all the fear mongering that goes on these days. We just need to let people do their jobs and remove unreasonable roadblocks in their path. The Patriot act did much of this.

MMDad
09-04-2007, 09:08 AM
However....after the Oklahoma City bombing...

Why isn't it just as "natural" to be suspicious of Rednecks in a Ryder truck? Or Rednecks near a federal building?

There are a hell of a lot more Rednecks in America then Muslims.

What should we do about them?

When is the last time you drove on Pennsylvania Avenue in front of the White House?

The steps taken in 1995 because of "rednecks" in Ryder trucks are still in place. You either ignore them or are blissfully unaware since they aren't in the news.

Pulling people speaking arabic off the planes is ridiculous because all passengers should have been fully screened long before they ever get to the gate, much less onboard the plane. Unfortunately, we have a public that wants 100% security but isn't willing to give up their privacy. We have three choices: 1. Give up flying. 2. Give up our privacy and allow effective screening. 3. Live with the current imperfect system that doesn't really work and offends liberals.

I vote for choice two, but I have nothing to hide.

CRoyal
09-04-2007, 09:08 AM
Land of the paranoid (http://rawstory.com//news/2007/Flight_detained_when_IraqiAmericans_speak_in_0831.html)

Iraqi-Americans removed from flight for speaking Arabic

NBC News reported Thursday on an incident at the San Diego airport in which "an American airlines flight to Chicago was delayed because a passenger was scared of several Arabic-speaking men on board."

"Those men she heard talking? They were Iraqi-Americans, in town to train US Marines at Camp Pendleton," explained NBC's Brian Williams. The men were removed from the plane and questioned briefly before being released. The flight was canceled and all passengers caught other flights the next day.

We should ABSOLUTELY be questioning these people on our aircrafts. They themselves have worked for and EARNED their reputation. Always to be better safe than sorry given the recent history.
I agree that it may be blown out of proportion at time, but so what? Always take precaution no matter how sensitive someone may be to it. Deal with it. It is in the name of safety and peace of mind for our citizens.

As for the Mcveigh talk, COMPLETLEY IRRELAVANT. 100% has no bearing or relation to the topic at hand.

vraiblonde
09-04-2007, 09:15 AM
3. Live with the current imperfect system that doesn't really work and offends liberals.
What I don't understand is how libs can demand that Bush keep us safe, yet they don't want reasonable precautions because they're "racist" or discriminatory.

Kerad
09-04-2007, 09:21 AM
And to think I included you in those lefties who could hold their own in here..... I won't make that blunder again. Thanks for proving what an idiot you are. :lmao:

Somehow, I will try to find the motivation to continue on.

PsyOps
09-04-2007, 09:28 AM
...ignored, at all. The flight schools had reported them. The FBI was looking into them. The CIA and military intel were on them.

Now, the CIA and miltary intel are forbidden to operate on US soil. So, they passed on what they had to the FBI.

The FBI was investigating these guys. The FBI saw reason for more investigation. The FBI asked for surveillance and wanted to go ahck their computers. The FBI's lawyers said 'no'; you can not use intel gathered by the CIA/,mil intel. It is not legal. The FBI sought a ruling from Justice.

Justice, in the person of Janet Reno assistant or deputy AG or whatever, Jamie Gorelick, wrote a memo reaffirming the legal 'wall' between the left hand, the CIA, and the right hand, the FBI.

The FBI was out of business on Atta and the others. They were not ignored. They were not missed. They weren't sneaking around undetected.

Quite a few people in the FBI, CIA and other places watched 9/11 unfold with a certain grim, ill feeling frustration of "I told you so".

Gorelick went on to serve, insanely, on the 9/11 commission.

In short, we do not need to be living with all the fear mongering that goes on these days. We just need to let people do their jobs and remove unreasonable roadblocks in their path. The Patriot act did much of this.

... aka ignored. I don't think I need to raise the issue of Able Danger. An attempt to warn the Clinton admin about Atta and gang was ignored. In fact, so much so, that it was passed on to Bush in a memo. Memo ignored! Although, in Bush's defense, he was only given less than 7 months to analyze, verify and act on this MEMO.

When we experienced attack after attack during the 90s, culminate this with the Able Danger warning.......... the whole threat was downplayed and ignored.

PsyOps
09-04-2007, 09:33 AM
We do not need to be living with all the fear mongering that goes on these days. We just need to let people do their jobs and remove unreasonable roadblocks in their path. The Patriot act did much of this.

Our government is asking us to be vigilent; be watching for suspicious activity. You can either sit back and wait for the government to fix their roadblocks or be a participant in stopping a future attack. You know they are planning one. Everyone knows it. Whenever these things happen this is in the backs of our minds.

Are you going to tell me when you get on an airplane and you hear a bunch of guys yapping about in Arabic that you aren't going to watch them more carefully than if there were a bunch of Koreans doing the same?

Larry Gude
09-04-2007, 09:34 AM
... aka ignored. I don't think I need to raise the issue of Able Danger. An attempt to warn the Clinton admin about Atta and gang was ignored. In fact, so much so, that it was passed on to Bush in a memo. Memo ignored!

When we experienced attack after attack during the 90s, culminate this with the Able Danger warning.......... they were ignored.


...with a distinction.

When we ignore a problem like a leaky roof we don't do anything about it and don't even know how extensive the problem is. A hole? Stopped up gutters?

Atta and company, the work was being done. The Feds were on the job, standing by, on the roof, so to speak, saws and supplies in hand, looking right at the problem. We, our leaders, said "Nah, let it go."

Point is we do not need a constant state of fear for them to have done their jobs then nor to do their jobs now.

Mikeinsmd
09-04-2007, 09:34 AM
Honestly, despite the terror attacks on US soil.... is the fear justified? Statistically the odds of being killed in a terror attack are lower than winning the lottery. We're all more likely to be killed by a firearm held by one of our own countrymen, or a drunk driver, but we let our buddies do it or do it ourselves, or obesity induced diabetes and/or heart problems. :coffee:
This is yellow peril, and red menace hysteria all over again. Are we supposed to just incarcerate people who just "might" happen to somehow be bad guys? Ask the japanese decended AMERICAN CITIZENS who were herded into camps because of the same ignorant fear. This kind of hallucinatory "fear" is just what the terrorist AND the government want you to experience. Its easier to get you to go along with unpopular plans if you somehow think bad guys are behind every tree and airplane seat.
Where do you get your statistics bozo? :smack:

Go back out to the barn and finish your tryst with the sheep.

CAPPY2609
09-04-2007, 09:39 AM
You do realize that a small group of men matching the description of the gentlemen removed from the plane carried out an attack on American civilians that killed more people than the attack on Pearl Harbor.

You do realize that pearl harbor was a valid military target and there was a major war ath the time, and its death toll was only slightly lower than 9/11. Hysteria once again. You can apply this physical description theory to anyone or any group. Blondes are sluts, fat people are lazy, red heads are feisty, all black people in groups are gangs, all hispanics are illegals, all irish are drunks, all polish are dumb, and the list goes on.
But based the one persons ignorance, an entire flight was cancelled. Again, one of my own "beloved" fellow citizens is more likely to kill me and my kid on your way back from the bar than any terrorist will. Last year, 17,448 were killed in alcohol-related crashes. Wheres your outrage and vigilance when it f**king matters? :buttkick:

CAPPY2609
09-04-2007, 09:42 AM
Where do you get your statistics bozo? :smack:

Go back out to the barn and finish your tryst with the sheep.

I would but i wont take your sloppy seconds, "mikesinmud"

PsyOps
09-04-2007, 09:44 AM
A difference with a distinction.

When we ignore a problem like a leaky roof we don't do anything about it and don't even know how extensive the problem is. A hole? Stopped up gutters?

Atta and company, the work was being done. The Feds were on the job, standing by, on the roof, so to speak, saws and supplies in hand, looking right at the problem. We, our leaders, said "Nah, let it go."

When you culminate this with all the previous attacks and threats and the Able Danger warning, the entire problem was ignored by the Clinton admin. Able danger exposed the roof leak. Clinton allowed his legal Pentagon team tell him "the leak's not that bad Mr. President".


Point is we do not need a constant state of fear for them to have done their jobs then nor to do their jobs now.

A difference with a distinction. What you and forest, et al, are calling fear, I call watching and acting. It will only take that one time to not act and then will you be claiming how stupid Americans are for not acting on it?

Mikeinsmd
09-04-2007, 09:46 AM
I would but i wont take your sloppy seconds, "mikesinmud"
:yawn: :snooze: :baby: :poke:

vegmom
09-04-2007, 10:15 AM
People are more comfortable speaking in their native language. Should everyone be restricted to speaking English on US flights from now on?

PsyOps
09-04-2007, 10:34 AM
People are more comfortable speaking in their native language. Should everyone be restricted to speaking English on US flights from now on?

I would say be cognizant of where you are and what the circumstances are. I don’t think there is a single Muslim that isn’t aware of our heightened level of alert and how English-speaking Americans are on egg-shells about every Muslim getting on an airplane speaking in their native tongue. Is it too much to ask to give up a little bit of "comfort"?

Given that, Muslims can either observe these facts or ignore them and face certain scrutiny. Do I like this? No! Is it unwarranted? Given the ongoing threat we face, No! Is it profiling by Americans? You bet! Can you really ask Americans, with those towers crashing down still vivid in their minds, to ignore certain things when they get on an airplane? No way!

AA996
09-04-2007, 10:51 AM
:nono:

That's not the point.

The point is...I guess...that since 9/11, being suspicious of every Muslim on a plane is "natural".

I understand...and I don't argue that.



However....after the Oklahoma City bombing...

Why isn't it just as "natural" to be suspicious of Rednecks in a Ryder truck? Or Rednecks near a federal building?

There are a hell of a lot more Rednecks in America then Muslims.

What should we do about them?

Kerad, I'm going to weigh in here. I am a pilot for the same airline that lost the first airplane into the WTC, as well as having one of ours hit the pentagon. My co-workers were among the very first victims that day. Let me say that we are vigilant for ANY suspicious behavior, from "rednecks" as well as Muslims. This is the precise reason that everyone, myself included, passes through the scrutiny of the TSA at the security checkpoint. However, let me also tell you that, while I can't elaborate, the threat from Muslim extremists is still very real. They are still to this day probing for weaknesses in our security program, we have seen evidence of this on several aircraft. We get briefings every week on the subject, and it's eye-opening sometimes. Again, I am not allowed to elaborate, just trust me on this one...the threat hasn't gone away. Airplanes still seem to be the terrorists' weapon of choice.

You do make a good point, anyone can be a terrorist. However, there is a certain group of people out there that want to see every American dead, and so we view their race/religion with suspicion. It may not be politically correct, but it is correct.

My first and last post on the subject.

Foxhound
09-04-2007, 10:56 AM
So we have a choice. We can avoid "profiling" and be politically correct and let another terrorist attack take the lives of average US Citizens.

Or we can impose a few inconveniences on people who may or may not be sleeper cell citizens (we know how far fetched this is :sarcasm: ) and possibly save a few lives.


I'll bet if a US citizen with Arab heritage would appreciate the inconvenience if it ended up saving their life.

PsyOps
09-04-2007, 11:01 AM
So we have a choice. We can avoid "profiling" and be politically correct and let another terrorist attack take the lives of average US Citizens.

Or we can impose a few inconveniences on people who may or may not be sleeper cell citizens (we know how far fetched this is :sarcasm: ) and possibly save a few lives.


I'll bet if a US citizen with Arab heritage would appreciate the inconvenience if it ended up saving their life.

Regardless, the democrats have set the perfect stage for blaming Bush no matter what happens.

RadioPatrol
09-04-2007, 11:06 AM
:coffee:





Paranoid America 09-04-2007 09:19 AM Ah, internet tough guy, eh? Let me try. #### off. Yep...I'm a tough guy now, too. ~Kerad






Not Even Close #### ............... Keep Trying - thanks for haveing the balls to sign it :yay:

aps45819
09-04-2007, 11:29 AM
You do realize that pearl harbor was a valid military target and there was a major war ath the time, and its death toll was only slightly lower than 9/11. Hysteria once again. :blahblah:
But based the one persons ignorance, an entire flight was cancelled. Again, one of my own "beloved" fellow citizens is more likely to kill me and my kid on your way back from the bar than any terrorist will.
:jameo: A flight was canceled OMG: yikes how traumatic that must have been.

FYI, the Japanese attacked Pearl about an hour before they declared war so we nuked them. I'm sure you can find several folks on this board that consider nuking various Muslim nations an appropriate response to 9/11

CAPPY2609
09-04-2007, 11:47 AM
:jameo: A flight was canceled OMG: yikes how traumatic that must have been.

FYI, the Japanese attacked Pearl about an hour before they declared war so we nuked them. I'm sure you can find several folks on this board that consider nuking various Muslim nations an appropriate response to 9/11

Nuking the japanese wasnt retribution for pearl harbor. And it was an attack conducted by a sovereign nation against another sovereign nation. Some on this board believe whats spoon fed to them, and learn some NRA/NASCAR version of world events and history. :coffee:
Flights being cancelled cost money to the taxpayer and to the carrier and can cause schedule disruption across entire national airport networks. Simply based on one persons opinion. If it was this much of an issue, dont you think security would have caught it? One idiot hears arabic and mashes the panic button?

CAPPY2609
09-04-2007, 11:54 AM
This is like some weird kafka fugue where we are all watching one another, waiting for one of us to step out of line to single them out. I'm sure the soviets lived like this too, never trusting each other for fear of having the authorities called on them for even arbitrary reasons. You are all too happy to hang onto this turd and go down the tubes.... You wont complain until its your turn to be pulled out of a crowd if you fit the new description of the latest boogey man. But you will say "that wont/cant happen to me" right up until they call your name. :coffee:
The govt spooks are doing their jobs, its usually only the screw ups you hear about. Otherwise our guys are doing their thing in quiet, like its supposed to be done. Vigilance is one thing, but it without rationality we become monkeys screaming in the tree tops not knowing only repeating what we hear the others doing.

aps45819
09-04-2007, 11:55 AM
If it was this much of an issue, dont you think security would have caught it? One idiot hears arabic and mashes the panic button?
If it wasn't an issue the security personnel wouldn't have cancelled the flight. I doubt if a stewardess cancelled it.

PsyOps
09-04-2007, 12:25 PM
:jameo: A flight was canceled OMG: yikes how traumatic that must have been.

FYI, the Japanese attacked Pearl about an hour before they declared war so we nuked them. I'm sure you can find several folks on this board that consider nuking various Muslim nations an appropriate response to 9/11

Conventionally we could overwhelm any of the Arab nations, or all of them. But this is one of the things the left conveniently leaves out of their discussion: The US goes to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties.

I watched a doc on the Military Channel this weekend about the battle for Yusufiyah; a town south of Baghdad. It was a stronghold for insurgents and al Qaeda. In order for elections to go more smoothly in Iraq we knew this area had to be stablized. The battle raged on mostly on rooftops where only a few marines were trying to fight off surrounding insurgents. They realized they had to get off the rooftops to go house to house rooting these guys out. The marines saw some insurgents hole up in a house. They ordered an airstrike on that house. Then they saw a group of insurgents grab a woman and a child into the house. They called off the airstrike. This decision to save these innocet lives could have jeopardized the entire effort to control the town. But they were aimed at saving these innocents' lives. Using special operations tactics they were able to penetrate the house and kill most of the insurgents and capture the rest and save the woman and child.

This is indicative of our military's efforts to avoid civilian casualties. Even when faced with losing the battle they were willing to allow this to happen to avoid their deaths. This is why we don't nuke. We used nukes on Japan to end the war. Analysts predicted the war could go on for years without it. It had the effect we wanted, which was end the war. Japan is a thriving and successful country; perhaps because of our actions. I think it's a valid question to consider such tactics to end any war. But we have shown that we are unwilling to use maximum force for fear of global retribution as a result of mass civilian casualties.

MMDad
09-04-2007, 12:39 PM
People are more comfortable speaking in their native language. Should everyone be restricted to speaking English on US flights from now on?

When I travel to foreign countries I have to keep a low profile for my own security and safety. I have to watch the clothes that I wear and avoid speaking loudly in public where people may notice my American accent. I have to observe local customs, such as which hand to eat with, not showing the bottom of the shoe, etc. It may be a bit inconvenient to do these things, but it's their country not mine.

So why can't we expect visitors to the US to maintain a low profile? Why are visitors to this country suddenly afforded some right to speak what they want, where they want, and Americans don't have the right to get nervous?

You cannot convince me that the people who fly are so unaware of the security posture here that they think there will be no repercussions from them proudly exhibiting their ethnicity. They could have kept quiet or spoken english and stayed on the plane, but they chose not to. They assumed the risk, and now people feel sorry for them. Great.

Mikeinsmd
09-04-2007, 12:51 PM
:jameo: A flight was canceled OMG: yikes how traumatic that must have been.

FYI, the Japanese attacked Pearl about an hour before they declared war so we nuked them. I'm sure you can find several folks on this board that consider nuking various Muslim nations an appropriate response to 9/11
NO!!! How Neanderthal is that?? :faint: :lalala:

AndyMarquisLIVE
09-04-2007, 01:11 PM
NO!!! How Neanderthal is that?? :faint: :lalala:
I think you're covered in there.

Is cappy one of Slappy's MPDs? Slappy-Cappy, they sound alike. :lmao:

RadioPatrol
09-04-2007, 01:16 PM
:jameo: A flight was canceled OMG: yikes how traumatic that must have been.

FYI, the Japanese attacked Pearl about an hour before they declared war so we nuked them. I'm sure you can find several folks on this board that consider nuking various Muslim nations an appropriate response to 9/11




:whistle:

Lugnut
09-04-2007, 02:02 PM
Nuking the japanese wasnt retribution for pearl harbor. And it was an attack conducted by a sovereign nation against another sovereign nation.

You have an EXCELLENT point there. It's kind of hard to see a real deterrent effect when we single out individuals and small organizations.

I think nuking a Muslim lead sovereign nation that actively supports terrorism would go a LONG way to deterring future terrorist acts and would encourage other Muslim nations to clean up their own trash before we need to do it ourselves.

:biggrin:

And for the record, I'm not being sarcastic. Nuke every country that actively supports terrorism against the United States.

RadioPatrol
09-04-2007, 02:18 PM
and what about the Middle Eastern Men got caught with explosives in SC last month :smack:

all you #### wads :poke: that whine about profiling ........ but yet again, what racial group turned up doing something illegal near a military base ..........

all you apologists for towel heads every where kiss my :moon:

RadioPatrol
09-04-2007, 02:19 PM
You have an EXCELLENT point there. It's kind of hard to see a real deterrent effect when we single out individuals and small organizations.

I think nuking a Muslim lead sovereign nation that actively supports terrorism would go a LONG way to deterring future terrorist acts and would encourage other Muslim nations to clean up their own trash before we need to do it ourselves.

:biggrin:

And for the record, I'm not being sarcastic. Nuke every country that actively supports terrorism against the United States.


Koff Koff Syria, Iran, :whistle:

after all we straightened out Kadaffy with out having to drop one bomb, and we know he supported terrorism in Europe and the Middle East for Years

PsyOps
09-04-2007, 02:30 PM
Koff Koff Syria, Iran, :whistle:

after all we straightened out Kadaffy with out having to drop one bomb, and we know he supported terrorism in Europe and the Middle East for Years

Perhaps that's because Bush had a little chat with him: "Mr. Kadafi we know you have nukes. You have two choices. Now you know if we decide to bomb you to smitherines no one will really care. And now we are in a good position to take care of you one way or another. What d'ya say; you're either wit us or agin us."

RadioPatrol
09-04-2007, 02:32 PM
What about the Sikhs (http://images.google.com/images?q=sikhs&svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&safe=off)?


ya know I am referring to Middle Eastern peoples ......... not Central Asian

and yeah I guess most of them don't wear Shemagh (http://search.ebay.com/ws/search/SaleSearch?_trksid=m37&from=R9&fstype=1&satitle=Shemagh&from=R9&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSRCH:SRCH)

Lugnut
09-04-2007, 03:11 PM
What about the Sikhs (http://images.google.com/images?q=sikhs&svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&safe=off)?

:confused: Didn't they blow up a comercial flight in the 80's?

vegmom
09-04-2007, 03:31 PM
You forgot: Indira Ghandi was killed by her Sikh bodyguards. They claimed it was out of anger over Operation Blue Star.

Lugnut
09-04-2007, 03:55 PM
Wow did not know that

:shrug: I don't know why I remembered that. :lol:

Larry Gude
09-04-2007, 04:12 PM
:shrug: I don't know why I remembered that. :lol:


...I got this one;

Because you have a...Sikh mind?


:killingme :lmao:

Lugnut
09-04-2007, 04:14 PM
...I got this one;

Because you have a...Sikh mind?


:killingme :lmao:


:ohwell:



Alright alright :lmao:

czygvtwkr
09-04-2007, 04:45 PM
:nono:

There are a hell of a lot more Rednecks in America then Muslims.



You sir are correct, but since there were only two rednecks involved in the OK City bombing and there were 20 muslims involved in 9/11 and don't forget the 1993 bombing of the world trade center then that makes the muslim much more likely than the redneck to be a terrorist. So at the very least your average muslim in america is atleast 10x more likely to be a terrorist than a redneck, since exact redneck numbers in America is unknown lets assume there are only 5x more rednecks in america than muslims. So this makes a muslim 50x more likely than a redneck to be a terrorist. Your logic is flawless.

Mikeinsmd
09-05-2007, 06:03 AM
Where do you get your statistics bozo? :smack:

Go back out to the barn and finish your tryst with the sheep.
Paranoid America 09-04-2007 02:02 PM Resorting to name calling, the hallmark of a true Bozo~~Merlin99

Damn Merl, you're right. I did call em a name. What a horrible man I am. :killingme :killingme

Mikeinsmd
09-05-2007, 06:09 AM
You have an EXCELLENT point there. It's kind of hard to see a real deterrent effect when we single out individuals and small organizations.

I think nuking a Muslim lead sovereign nation that actively supports terrorism would go a LONG way to deterring future terrorist acts and would encourage other Muslim nations to clean up their own trash before we need to do it ourselves.

:biggrin:

And for the record, I'm not being sarcastic. Nuke every country that actively supports terrorism against the United States.

and what about the Middle Eastern Men got caught with explosives in SC last month :smack:

all you #### wads :poke: that whine about profiling ........ but yet again, what racial group turned up doing something illegal near a military base ..........

all you apologists for towel heads every where kiss my :moon:OMFG!!! Am I developing a following?? :diva: :yahoo:

Should I go for a write in on the '08 ballot? :patriot:

Who's with me??? OOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo!!!!!! :lmao:

Larry Gude
09-05-2007, 06:49 AM
you can do better than that, sheesh

...that's about it right there. :lmao:

Marie
09-05-2007, 03:35 PM
Humm, America we speak English,(we do still speak english, nada obla espanol) Legal imagrants are supouse embrace our culture and become intagrated into our society not try to change it!
That was the point for comming here FOR A BETTER WAY OF LIFE?
So if you dont have something to hide .....
Thats almost as bright as going into a crowded bank and yelling gun.

Theres your sign! :smack:

MMDad
09-05-2007, 03:48 PM
Humm, America we speak English,(we do still speak english, nada obla espanol) Legal imagrants are supouse embrace our culture and become intagrated into our society not try to change it!
That was the point for comming here FOR A BETTER WAY OF LIFE?
So if you dont have something to hide .....
Thats almost as bright as going into a crowded bank and yelling gun.

Theres your sign! :smack: :roflmao: Post of the year!