Christianity gets a bad rap

Due in part to nutties using it to validate themselves and further their own personal bias.

Just my thoughts and defense of the G man!

Im with ya on this one Christy
not that I was not with ya on other things...

It did get a little outta hand. But...its all taken care of in the end. He has it in control

Originally posted by Christy
...Just my thoughts and defense of the G man! ...

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Liddy?

Originally posted by Christy
Due in part to nutties using it to validate themselves and further their own personal bias.

Just my thoughts and defense of the G man!

Click to expand...

Good point! Among the nutties are fearmongers like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. These guys try to justify their bigotry in the name of Christ. How sickening! And then there's Anita Bryant, who claims that all Jews are doomed to Hell from birth. The Left Behind series has a LOT of anti-Semitism. I don't even consider these folks Christians. Christianity isn't about hating your neighbor and manipulating people through fear.

Liddy?

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Of course! , I was on his show once. :

Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are the complete opposite of what Christianity stands for. The only televangelist worth his salt is Billy Graham. Not sure how I feel about his son, I've not really spent much time following him, but have seen him on interviews and haven't been real impressed.

Definition of terms

It always amuses me when someone out of touch with actual Christianity is able to pronounce someone valid and others not. They see hate because they want to see hate.
What would you think about a missionary who went to the "field" well armed? Your first thought is to say "WHAT is This??" Its all about love! Acceptence! right?etc.
NOPE: Matthew 10:34
Christ: "Think not that I am come to send peace on Earth: I came not to send peace but a sword."
Luke 12:51
Christ: "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you Nay; but rather division."


Scripture is referred to as a sword, not a lovable pound puppy.

Christianity is supposed to make you separate..not "fit in" better with the world. If you believe in this warm, fuzzy, there-is-no-hell, and everybody who is 'decent' is a Christian...you're plain wrong. Your last alternative to continue this false belief is to discount scripture and blame translations. Go ahead, say I pulled those verses out of context; read the whole sermon that Christ was teaching: Its about being seperate, following no other, rejecting this corrupt world...etc. (Which is what Falwell, Robertson and Bryant have done.)

Bottom line: The wisdom of the world that is demonstated by judging Christians that are "hateful, harsh, biased..." is just that. You have no part (nor understanding) of what actually is solid scripture.

And the fall back defense: "Well fine, I'd rather be in hell with all my buddies than with all those narrow pious hateful "saints."
Oh?????? (Mark 9:43+)
Separation, darkness, torment, fear, pain,(terror),...gee, sounds like a great place to hang out with my "buddies."


Its fine that you'll reject my argument...at least you're aware of it. I don't tickle a lot of ears.

Glad to see you back posting again Hessian, the religion forums were starting to grow cobwebs!

I don't think we are here to make judgements. That is left for the big man himself. I don't mean to sound hokey, but we are here to make an attempt to better our own souls. Not anyone elses. God is the sword, we are not. I think if you take a look at our history, when we've attempted to play God, the disastrous consequences that come from it.

As far as hell goes, I do believe in Hell. I believe Hell is the absence of God. The absence of "light". I also believe (back to the bettering our souls) that we are given the chance while we are on this Earth to right our wrongs (big and small), and those left hanging we all have to face when we die. Many Christians feel that it is "empowering" to belittle those who aren't as "enlightened". My belief is God will humble them in a big way when they die.

Okay, down off my soap box! Cari, does this post elevate me to "preacher"?

Well, I will tell you right up front that I am a christian. but do I go and ram it down someones throat on what to believe no. Cause I think that in a nutshell is what turns people away the most. They run because someone uses the fire and brimstone on them and tell them,
"you dont do things this way (in translation=my way) and to because of that you are going straight to hell"

Tell me something, how is that going to 1) get your point across, and 2) make that person even want to listen to what you have to say.
I have come in contact with some people, who were faced with that, and in turn became bitter. Of course why wouldn't they. But, because of those types of people, is where christians and people like me, get called a hypocrit. Unfortunatly there are things happening in this time and day that are showing true...I dont know what will happen in the end, or even when it will happen. But that does not mean, I am going to hate the person to my right or left, because they dont believe the SAME exact thing I do. Baptist, Pennecostals(sp), Methodist, Catholics,Evangelical,etc are all christians, they just do things differently. Does not mean that anyone is better in the sight of God.

I believe that God created this world, not evolution. But I dont hate people who believe in evolution. That is my choice on what to believe, not cramming it down someones throat.


True christians, know why they believe,and why they want to believe, and know that they need to show compassion and love rather than hate. But, in the short run, we are also human. So it is hard to do. I do not defend in any way those types known as the holy rollers or whatever, because all they are doing it preaching hate. Nothing wrong with loving God and wanting to show your faith, and you have the right too.
But, in the sense of this 'your going to hell, because you dont agree with me' is a big

I will sit down and have serrious talks and try to explain, but, I am not one who has all the answers, learning everyday. Does not mean I wont, try to find them for the person asking.I know that through works, you can not get into heaven. You have to believe. I have faith that I know where I am going when I die. And it wont be sitting on a cloud strumming a harp . I will be in the presence of who made me.

I'm with you Watercolor.

I love to talk about religion, but prefer not to ram it down anyones throat. I just try to be a decent human being and leave it at that. I'm not out to convert anyone. Hell, my husband is Agnostic, as many who were raised Catholic are! He respects my view and I respect his.


I do figure however, this is the religion forum, so what better place to start some good old debate!

I think the life we live (therefore our actions) plays a greater role in witnessing to our fellow man than what we say. If we follow Christ and live our life the way the Bible instructs, our actions will draw others to us more so than anything that we can possible say.

Our actions (works) will do nothing to secure our salvation but it does wonders in witnessing.

Just my humble opinion

Christy, Water, if only more people shared your views! I, too, enjoy discussing religion. Or, more precisely, learning about religions. But it's annoying when someone either a) is on a mission to ram their views down your throat and/or b) is so adamant about their views that they just won't allow themselves to see someone else's view. It's hard to have a nice discussion with these people. I'm fairly firm in what I believe, but I really enjoy learning about other cultures/belief systems.

I remember once some people knocked on my door asking if I found Jesus. Actually, what happened was they said they were talking a survey, and from my answers, they said there was still time to save me. Usually, I tell these people that I'm just not interested, but this time I decided to talk with them. Basically, whenever I asked something that questioned what they were saying, they came back with some really strange reasoning for why they were right.

Now, I wasn't raised Christian, and after looking into its beliefs somewhat deeply, I disagree with most of its ideas. I can see how it appeals to people, though, and that's fine with me. It's good to discuss different beliefs, but going around banging people on the head saying "if you don't believe what I do, you're doomed" doesn't exacatly lend itself to a decent discussion. Present your views, and let the other guy come to his/her own conclusions.

(I don't know how all that came across. I can't seem to express myself too well today, so take it for the idea, if not the exact wording.)

Point one:
There is no common ground to compromise on for the true believer. Compromise can be left for the politician, philosopher,the lawyer...not for a true Christian.

Point Two:
There is no other way to heaven than by accepting the Son. His once and for all sacrifice for the remission of sins is not open to debate. All other religious founders are dead, decayed, gone.

Point three:
Works will get you nowhere. Good deeds, Reciting a mantra, going on a pilgrimage, giving generously:All is worthless. (James and Paul address this thoroughly-Corinthians and the Book of James.) Nice gestures are all they are. The only way they count is if you are doing it because you are extending Christ's Kingdom on earth. ("Unto the least of these...")

Point Four:
Methodists, Baptist, Presbyterian, Assembly of God etc. have some doctrinal differences but only the most narrow would say that they are the only denomination that understand scripture perfectly.
Catholics, Mormons, JW's all have added non-biblical beliefs to their doctrine. Can they be saved? Sure, just strip away altered versions of the scripture, stop praying to saints that can't hear you, and drop strange customs that have no place in the Church since the Council of Nicea.

Point Five:
Yornoc's living testimony: Right.
Live morally, sacrifice for others, be forgiving,
content, and don't compromise. NOT BECAUSE THIS GETS YOU IN HEAVEN, BUT BECAUSE YOU ARE CALLED(Set apart). Be prepared for the mockery thrown at you for your "out-dated" values. Taunts regarding intolerance should be expected if you are not willing water down your faith.

Point Six
If you have no desire to spread your faith, you are denying the Great Commission. If you expect missionaries or your pastor to do the job...you need to examine the "Salt" of your faith. If the salt has lost its savor...it is worthless-throw it away. "I wish that you were either hot or cold but because you are lukewarm: I will spew you out."
"If you do not testify for me, I will not testify for you before the Father."

Sound harsh? What were Christ's words? "Forsaking all others...Taking up your cross and following him,...be a servant...Many are called, few are chosen."

Final thought, did Christ EVER compromise with any of the local beliefs? Did he give bonus points to the pharisees? Did he say that some of the Roman gods were ok? For that matter, did any of His apostles/disciples compromise? How many died because they refused to bend their knee for the the "diety" of the Caesar? I suppose all the folks today calling for compromise would quickly bend their knee and pay the temple fine...they are ashamed of the Gospel....and thus the Father is ashamed of them.
"Many will cry Lord Lord, and He will say, be gone, I do not know you."

If you discount the severity of sin, you discount the depth of His grace.

I use to have a huge problem with Billy Graham, after the whole ordeal with him cheating on his wife (i believe thats what was going on) so I stayed clear, but then I saw him come out and say his was wrong, and I even saw him take theleap again and beg for God to forgive him, and I gain respect, and I've heard a lot of what he's said, and I'd love to get a hold of a few of his books (any one know?).. Also, a wise man told me: It's Grace Stupid! just remember, that, and God's love seems so much simpler than any amount of phlosphosphy can tell you... this hasn't be a sermon, just a thought

I'm glad to see all these responses from Christians and non-Christians alike.

How can the act of getting in someone's face and saying "You're going to hell" possibly be defended? It's one thing to believe that all Jews are going to hell. It's another to get in a Jewish person's face and say it. That is the meanest thing a person can say to another person. Meaner than "I wish you would die," and certainly meaner than "Your mother's a whore."

I believe that religious belief is a very personal thing. I don't mean that most believers shop for a particular doctrine. I mean that everyone has some sort of personal revelation.

I wouldn't presume to judge someone else's revelation as less valid than mine. But I think there's a clear distinction between that and behavior that affects other people.

It is a pretty decent thread so far (good discussion, no mud slinging, etc).

Tonio, I pretty much agree with you. I've seen a few times people spreading the word, and carrying pamphlets specifically geared towards Jews. I'm not sure why, but I guess it's since Jews don't accept Jesus to begin with, whereas with Christians, they just have to "bring them back" to Jesus. Whatever the reason, it really annoys me.

I can see why they go around spreading the word, though. Perhaps Hessian can correct me, but I believe they are doing it out of a concern for the other person, and also because their faith says that they should go out and spread the faith. If only they'd just leave when politely asked to.

But more to the point of this thread (Christianity getting a bad rap), I think some good points were raised. The negative publicity Jerry Falwell types (or whomever it was who had that affair) don't help. Neither does the current priest child abuse thing going on (where all priests are seen as guilty by association). Even groups who are upstanding people, but don't leave others alone, like a few years ago when the Baptists passed a resolution (or some such; it was at one of their conventions) to start an effort to convert Jews (when was the last time you've heard of Jews going out trying to convert Baptists?). It's really, in my view, a small group of people who give the rest the bad rap.

Thanks for your thoughts, BudoPo. I don't understand why Jews are targeted so much either.

What do you think of the Left Behind books? I tried reading the first one but gave up. Lots of subtle anti-Semitic stereotypes, such as financiers plotting in secret and the scientists and media types dismissing Christianity as superstition. But there are also lots of vignettes of former Jews describing their conversions, in the tone of "What was I thinking, following Judaism?" If I were Jewish, I would be greatly disturbed that this series sells in huge numbers.

Tonio, I haven't heard of the books, so I can't really say anything about them (aside from going by what you state). If it is anti-semitic, then the conversion stories don't surprise me. The way you describe them, as being a realization of how Judaism is somehow wrong and they suddenly realize the error of their ways, then it seems like just what they'd want to include in their books in order to support their views.

I personally wouldn't read them (why should I support such drivel?). But you're right: it is frightening that it sells in large numbers. I don't know if the sales are from anti-Semitism, or from the usual conspiracy theory (for all sorts of topics), or just curiosity about what author is putting forth.

Fuzzying, I might be wrong, but I'm pretty certain you are mistaking Billy Graham for Jimmy Swaggart.

Hessian, I don't feel my beliefs are "watered down" simply because I'm not out there stoning non-Christians or Gays. That would be playing God, and I'm not nearly that bold.

Christy

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RoseRed, just did a bunch of deleting, so it should be empty now!