Firefighters Vote to Boycott Bush’s 9/11 Tribute

This article reminds us we need to get out our checkbooks and support our local firefighters and emergency rescue workers.

This from Reuters, Wed., Aug. 15, 2002:
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The International Association of Fire Fighters voted unanimously on Wednesday to boycott a national tribute to firefighters who died on Sept. 11, in an angry response to U.S. President George Bush's rejection of a bill that included $340 million to fund fire departments.

Bush is expected to speak at the Oct. 6 ceremony in Washington D.C., where the National Fallen Fire Fighters Foundation is hosting its annual tribute to those who died in the line of duty during the prior year.

The ceremony will honor 343 firefighters who died responding to the Sept. 11 attacks on New York and Washington, as well as about 100 others who also died in the year.

The IAFF… is enraged by the president's rejection of a $5.1 billion appropriations bill that included $150 million for equipment and training grants requested by some of the nation's 18,000 fire departments.

Firefighters and survivors will be urged to skip the Oct. 6 event in protest, said R. Michael Mohler of the Virginia Professional Fire Fighters Local 774.

"The president has merely been using firefighters and their families for one big photo opportunity," Mohler said. "We will work actively to not grant him another photo op with us."



IAFF general president Schaitberger, said of President Bush’s actions: "Don't lionize our fallen brothers in one breath, and then stab us in the back by eliminating funding for our members to fight terrorism and stay safe."

MORE…
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...u=/nm/20020815/pl_nm/attack_firefighters_dc_1

This article reminds us we need to get out our checkbooks and support our local firefighters and emergency rescue workers.

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Isn't this the truth. Any true "non-profit" that serves our community such as local volunteer fire depts and emts deserve our help. I personally have been in a couple car accidents where fire/emts were needed. One of which was really bad. That one trucks/ambulances/volunteers came out from 5 different firehouses. They're fast response, team work and ability honestly saved my life. Someday we're all going to need some help and I think it's our responsibility to support our volunteers.

I don't have time to research this article so really can't speak too much on it. All I can say is being the gf of a DC fireman who responded to the Pentagon on Sept. 11, I haven't heard any gripes about Bush rejecting any bills.

I do have a gripe however about how much our professional firefighters are paid. It's not nearly enough in my eyes. I make $15,000.00 a year then my bf. I never finished college and sit behind a computer all day. He goes out and risks his life to help other people. I don't get it at all...

Originally posted by pixiegirl
I do have a gripe however about how much our professional firefighters are paid. It's not nearly enough in my eyes. I make $15,000.00 a year then my bf. I never finished college and sit behind a computer all day. He goes out and risks his life to help other people. I don't get it at all...

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I agree with you. My husband is a retired firefighter from Pax River. The average grade for these guys is 5-6-7, compared to an engineer at a 11-12-13. I too have not finished college and make more than he does at my desk job. They deserve a raise for what they do. I also have a friend in the DC Fire Department and from the stories I hear from him, they also deserve combat pay!

Originally posted by RoseRed


I agree with you. My husband is a retired firefighter from Pax River. The average grade for these guys is 5-6-7, compared to an engineer at a 11-12-13. I too have not finished college and make more than he does at my desk job. They deserve a raise for what they do. I also have a friend in the DC Fire Department and from the stories I hear from him, they also deserve combat pay!

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That's what I'm saying. I could understand the money he makes if say he just started and had no experience but he's been with volunteer fire dept's for 10 years and has been professional for a couple of years now. He's taken classes and passed tests and still doesn't get what he deserves.

Interesting that neither TrueBlue nor the article referenced indicate what bill was being vetoed by the President. Additionally, the article says that the bill carries a 5.1 billion dollar price tag of which only 340 million was earmarked for the firefighters. There might be some very good reasons not to support it especially if it is loaded with pork as the members of Congress like to do. Can anyone provide the bill number that is being talked about so that we can see if this was a bad decision or just sniveling Democrats trying to sling mud?

Originally posted by cariblue
Pixie, I did a search and found the article.

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I don't doubt if the article is real. I don't doubt if the story is true. I was just saying I don't have the time to research it all. I personally haven't heard any gripes from the bf or any of his friends. If it was a huge issue for firefighters I'm sure I would have heard about it cause they all b!tch worse then women, lol. I don't know if it's as big a deal as it's being made out to be. Matter of fact I know the bf's little sister and his brother in law (who is also a dc ff) are going to the tribute in Oct. that is supposedly being so protested.

Ken, I agree with your analysis. I'd also be interested in seeing the exact bill he vetoed.

Originally posted by Ken King
Interesting that neither TrueBlue nor the article referenced indicate what bill was being vetoed by the President. Additionally, the article says that the bill carries a 5.1 billion dollar price tag of which only 340 million was earmarked for the firefighters. There might be some very good reasons not to support it especially if it is loaded with pork as the members of Congress like to do. Can anyone provide the bill number that is being talked about so that we can see if this was a bad decision or just sniveling Democrats trying to sling mud?

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I'm guessing it's the latter!

Here are some of the President’s comments regarding the supplemental appropriations act that Congress sent to him and why he decided to deny it. I say good job Mr. President. Don’t let Congress run rampant with the purse strings that hold our money.

"Congress sent an emergency spending bill to my desk, and that was good. It's called a supplemental. It's money for the war on terror, it's money to defend the homeland, it's money to help rebuild New York City. But interestingly enough, they put $5 billion additional dollars in there, about $5 billion that I didn't think was an emergency.

And part of the language in the supplemental said, either you spend all $5 billion of the extra money, or you spend none of it. In other words, I didn't have any flexibility. I didn't get to pick and choose. They said, all or none, I heard their position, yesterday they heard mine, we're spending none of the $5 billion.

This decision should serve as an example that I am serious when it comes to protecting taxpayers' money, and to being fiscally sound with your money, to set priorities and make sure they fund the priorities, but don't overspend. Somebody said, what are you talking about? In part of the $5 billion, to show you one of the egregious examples, was they wanted a new building for worms and bugs that the United States had collected. That's not an emergency. If somebody thinks it's that important, they can put it in next year's appropriations bill. As a matter of fact, one of the things we'll do is we'll take some of the good ideas that were a part of the $5 billion, and work immediately to get them in the '03 budgets. And by the way, the '03 funding starts soon.”

I, like anyone else that I know, tend to agree that EMS personnel and firefighters need more support but Congress needs to get their act together and quit adding all the pork when they see a chance to sneak it through. Now with the '03 budget I expect to see the funding for these essential services that got tied up by Congress. It's sad that some only see part of the picture and are so eager to place blame on the wrong person. It is understandable that the IAFF is pissed off, but it should be pissed at Congress. You know, the ones that made the stupid stipulation on spending all of it or none of it.

I won't make too many friends with this but I hope you see the logic...

Local fire departments...need to be supported locally! They are like the militia of the 1700's...ready for immediate call in their 'Hood.

I can't figure out how the federal government is considering funding departments...that is just Unions running amok.

We get monthly calls asking for support, our county pitches in, our state pitches in, and of course there are all those extra fundraisers.
And now the fed Govt gets blamed for not pitching in? That is a twisted mindset. Good for Bush: Take a stand against bloated bureaucracy!

My Brother is a Vol. Fire Fighter and its in a rural town...they just bought a new pumper for some HUGE price, they got brush trucks, ladder truck, EMS vehicle, crash truck and one or two others...their biggest problem is who is gonna change the sign out front and to get guys to stop fooling around with the "Jaws of Life"--this ain't poverty folks, its boredom. I would NOT want to cut their budget..only try to figure out ...why do they need so many toys?

Lets not get teary eyed over funding firemen, they do a good job, but they don't need more obligations to maintain or frills to goof around with.

Originally posted by Hessian
I won't make too many friends with this but I hope you see the logic...

Local fire departments...need to be supported locally! They are like the militia of the 1700's...ready for immediate call in their 'Hood.

I can't figure out how the federal government is considering funding departments...that is just Unions running amok.

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You won't get any argument from me, except in the instance of deep rural areas where federal funding is probably the only answer. If these men put their lives on the line, it's up to the people they serve to pay them what they deserve. There's no sensible reason why the federal government should bankroll the local fire and police departments. That's asking someone else to pay for what you yourself won't.

Originally posted by Frank
If these men put their lives on the line, it's up to the people they serve to pay them what they deserve. There's no sensible reason why the federal government should bankroll the local fire and police departments. That's asking someone else to pay for what you yourself won't.

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As a lot of the funding would assist volunteer fire departments, where pay isn't an issue, I have no problem with Federal funding as it will go towards equipment, facilities, and training. Hell, I don't have any problem with the Fed helping out the paid fire fighters either as they are performing a service needed by the community.

Using the logic expressed by Hessian in his post, and considering that the Fed bankrolls a lot for education in addition to what is earmarked from the state and local taxes, should the Fed stop doing this? After all, shouldn't this be a local issue too?

By the logic I've heard above, why not just have local militias and do away with the military? I grew up in a small rural community in the midwest, and a lot of people there think that things like terrorism (and the risk of nuclear attack) only affect people in the East, so why should their tax dollars have to pay to defend us "snooty Easterners".

My Brother is a Vol. Fire Fighter and its in a rural town...they just bought a new pumper for some HUGE price, they got brush trucks, ladder truck, EMS vehicle, crash truck and one or two others...their biggest problem is who is gonna change the sign out front and to get guys to stop fooling around with the "Jaws of Life"--this ain't poverty folks, its boredom. I would NOT want to cut their budget..only try to figure out ...why do they need so many toys?

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Toys? In rural areas true a lot of the equipment doesn't get as much use as it would in the city but just like the old saying, "it's better to be safe then sorry." I know fire/ems equipment is high $$$ stuff but it's important to have it when disaster strikes because eventually it will. Case in point, the fire last week in White Plains. How many other depts were called in because local fire depts were not equiped to handle such a fire? They came from DC, Alexandria, Arlington, PAX and several other areas.

Fire depts absolutely should be funded by the Fed. gov't. As for the argument that I'm not willing to pay for it? I pay federal taxes out the wazoo so I do pay for it. Having the federal gov't oversee and fund the fire depts is the only way to effectively distribute the manpower and equipment.

Originally posted by pixiegirl


Toys? In rural areas true a lot of the equipment doesn't get as much use as it would in the city but just like the old saying, "it's better to be safe then sorry." I know fire/ems equipment is high $$$ stuff but it's important to have it when disaster strikes because eventually it will. Case in point, the fire last week in White Plains. How many other depts were called in because local fire depts were not equiped to handle such a fire? They came from DC, Alexandria, Arlington, PAX and several other areas.

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In that case, the fire was to big for any one company to handle. They had fire threating a trailor park, lumber yard, and the actual junk yard building. The water supply was about 3 miles away, so we had times were there was no water. Very scarey when you have a raging inferno heading towards peoples homes. But everyone buckled down and kept the fire in the junk yard. It was a big team effort by everyone. It takes alot of training to take control of over 50 different fire companies and produce an end result as good as that one. One great thing about the fire service, we are all one big family. When one company calls for help the others will come running.

We in the volunteer fire service live off the Fire Tax and your donation and the fun raiser that we have. We apperciate everthing you give to us. Your money allows to buy new fire trucks, equipment and sends us to school to better educate us in serving the community. In my department, we just had a fun raiser for a thermal imager camera. This camera allows us to see body heat in the dark were normal all you have to go by is feel. This camera is over 20,000 dollars. You call it a toy. But I would like to think of it as a Life Saving Tool. We have old saying too that "If it saves just one Life then it has paid for itself."

"If it saves just one Life then it has paid for itself."

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That's what I'm saying.

Originally posted by Hessian
I won't make too many friends with this but I hope you see the logic...

Local fire departments...need to be supported locally! They are like the militia of the 1700's...ready for immediate call in their 'Hood.

I can't figure out how the federal government is considering funding departments...that is just Unions running amok.


...why do they need so many toys?

Lets not get teary eyed over funding firemen, they do a good job, but they don't need more obligations to maintain or frills to goof around with.

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Every donation that we got for our camera is supported by the locals in our district. We hung a sign out side our department explaining what we wanted to buy and in about a week we had 1/2 of the money to buy our camera. We also had some dances and other fund raising activities. With out that donated money we could have never afforded that camera off our budget.

We need this equipment (or what you call toys) because it makes are job of saving you, alot safer on us and you. The fire service has grown up so much in the past 20 years and if you weren't there then you would know about it. It's know longer the good old boy firefighting, lets go put the blue stuff on the red stuff. It's class time, working with different tools and pre planning fire attack. As a volunteer Fire Lieutenant, I put in about 20-30 hours a week in drills, writing reports, and making sure the trucks are running in proper order. Then there are the hours that I'm up in the middle of night, weekends, or early in the morning running calls. Plus my day job.

I'm not looking for a pitty party, just a little of understanding in why the fire service need your help and the governments help. 9/11 was just a wake up call to the public about about fire service. I love my volunteer job and will do my best to make sure that the community is getting the best service available.

This is a little poem I like to read to people that think the fire service is not worth the time and money.

What If You Had A Fire,
And No One Came?
No One To Protect Your Family
From The Awful Smoke And Flames.

What If You Were Hurt In An Auto Wreck
And No One Came?
No One To Remove You From The Wreckage
And There You Would Remain.

What If You Had A Missing Child,
And No One Came?
No One To Search For Your Loved One
In The Heat, The Cold, The Rain.

What If You Needed Other Help,
And No One Came?
No One To Help In Your Time Of Need,
Now That Would Be A Shame.

But We Won't Let This Happen,
And You Can Rest Your Fears,
So When You Go To Bed Tonight,
Thank God For Volunteers!

First, I will say that emergency response personel should get more money, though I would not compare them to engineers or anyone else. Secondly, in no way should the fed run the program, the money would go to whatever district is held by the most powerful legislators, we, in St Marys county pay 3% tax and considerring that is twice the county tax I paid in Sacramento Calif, and we had great firefighter and emt service, then use the money here to fund it. I hear bragging about all the new jobs that PAX NAS has brought to the area, which adds up to a whole lot of tax revenue, then I believe it is a matter of spending it wisely, which is why we need to get out and research the people running for office and vote, cuz, as was once said, 'something is verry fishy here", schools and emergency services should be at the top of the list, not things like the $9M spent a yr for elderly services in this county alone. Just built a deck and it costs $22 for a permit which is about the same as my last town (including inspections) but here, nooooo, they contract out the inspections and that costs me another $53, I really like it here, but dangit, I like to see where my money is going.:flush:

I thank you for your civilty on this somewhat dicey issue.
Fireman hit the issue directly: Local support for local needs: Donations, volunteerism,--builds local support and unity. Name the need and the community pitches in to help. Jefferson would be proud.

I can also agree strongly with David: Federal funding turns fire companies into a bunch of suckling pigs all fighting for a nipple. That does nothing to build community support. Bureacracy is the only true benefit.

Toys...yes Toys. And again my point was strengthened by the LaPlata fire: The biggest lesson was multi-company coordination...
How do we use the machinery we have...with an excellent coordination of fighting units---That's what beat the fire.
To Lobby for a $300,000 armored "Fire interceptor Foam generating, hell defying, Blast master" (That sits and needs costly maintenance and continual upgrades) means that many less training sessions, individual equipment improvements, and multi-company drills....that is the true cost of a "Toy."

How about more recruiting of youth? My brother's company is aging fast...that generation of community-minded organizations is dying (Elks Moose, VFW) etc....thus the average age of these firemen is pushing the upper 40's...Will new "Toys" lure in truly dedicated, long term volunteers? I doubt it...and the older guys will still be selling the raffle tickets, cleaning up after the fair, and scrubbing the Old Diesel Pumper #7 because....no younger personel will do it.

TRUE: this is not the overall condition in every station...I do see some young faces in the pictures of our local fire/EMS companies...but will it be enough?

I see the lure of federal dollars to try to get more "Stuff" for companies who can't staff the "stuff" they already have!

(Oh...regarding that Education funding question...man, that has sure helped a lot in the past 40 years hasn't it? Scores up, happy Teachers, plenty of classrooms, productive students...we sure did great with those federal funds huh?)

Money to firemen, probably a good idea. Boycotting a Setp 11th tribute over money is a bad idea in my opinion.

Paying tribute to victims and heros should not take a back seat to the all mighty dollar. This is a day where no politics should take place. There is a time and place for everything, Sept 11th is not the time to yell for money.

The greatest thing I ever saw come from Washington in my lifetime was the cooperation and fellowship between Republicans and Democrats last September and October, too bad its not more like that.