America a Christian Nation? Funny...

MadWayne

New Member
It is silly and absurd to suggest that America is a “Christian nation,” or was founded on “Biblical principles.” Those who are bold enough to make such a claim will inevitably encounter one nagging quandary invalidating their position–historical facts.

History tells us that England’s first colonialists came to America for trade, not to escape religious persecution or to conceive a religious nation. Only 5% of the population attended religious services in the early decades of our colonial history, and of our first six presidents, none were Christian. (1,2) Many of our founding Fathers such as George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, James Madison, James Monroe, Ethan Allen, and Benjamin Franklin were Deists, and believed that God was not involved in human affairs. These men opposed Christian dogma, disbelieving the virgin birth, divinity and resurrection of Jesus, efficacy of prayer, miracles of the Bible, and the divine inspiration of the Bible. (3)

Washington stated in the Treaty with Tripoli, “the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.” (4) The author of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson, said “Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.” (5) James Madison maintained Christianity was guilty of “pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.” (6)

Thomas Paine, “the Father of the American Revolution” shared these views and dispatched heaps of criticism on Christianity in his book Age of Reason. While Christianity did experience growth in the centuries that followed America’s conception, the percentage of Americans who now attend any religious service once a week lingers around 20%, the lowest in decades. (7)

If any of the founding Fathers intended to form a Christian nation, they had their chance to make this clear in the Constitution. However, this document contains no references to Jesus, the Bible, God, or Christianity.(8) America is not a Christian nation. We are a secular nation. We are a free nation. Our Founders wanted it that way, and it is exciting to see their spirit still alive in the 9th circuit court of appeals.

(1) http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_rate.htm
(2) The Encyclopedia Brittanica, 1968, p. 420
(3) http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/myth.html
(4) 420Treaties and Other International Acts of the United States, ed. Hunter Miller, Vol. 2, U. S. Government Printing Office, 1931, p. 365).
(5) --Thomas Jefferson, Six Historic Americans by John E. Remsberg
(6) James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, 2000 Years of Disbelief by James A. Haught
(7) http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_rate.htm
(8) The Myth of Christian America; What you need to know about Separation of Church and State, Mark Weldon Whitten
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
We've already discussed this to death in a few different threads. The consensus is that the Constitution is not based on any religious teachings. A few disagree, but most of us agree with what you wrote.

Didn't come here via DU, by any chance, did you?
:lmao:

Contrary to popular belief, we're not all a bunch of right-wingers in here. We have many Democrats, quite a few liberals and even some PETAs :shocked:
 

bknarw

Attire Monitor
Originally posted by MadWayne
It is silly and absurd to suggest that America is a “Christian nation,” or was founded on “Biblical principles.” Those who are bold enough to make such a claim will inevitably encounter one nagging quandary invalidating their position–historical facts.

History tells us that England’s first colonialists came to America for trade, not to escape religious persecution or to conceive a religious nation. Only 5% of the population attended religious services in the early decades of our colonial history, and of our first six presidents, none were Christian. (1,2) Many of our founding Fathers such as George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, James Madison, James Monroe, Ethan Allen, and Benjamin Franklin were Deists, and believed that God was not involved in human affairs. These men opposed Christian dogma, disbelieving the virgin birth, divinity and resurrection of Jesus, efficacy of prayer, miracles of the Bible, and the divine inspiration of the Bible. (3)

Washington stated in the Treaty with Tripoli, “the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.” (4) The author of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson, said “Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.” (5) James Madison maintained Christianity was guilty of “pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.” (6)

Thomas Paine, “the Father of the American Revolution” shared these views and dispatched heaps of criticism on Christianity in his book Age of Reason. While Christianity did experience growth in the centuries that followed America’s conception, the percentage of Americans who now attend any religious service once a week lingers around 20%, the lowest in decades. (7)

If any of the founding Fathers intended to form a Christian nation, they had their chance to make this clear in the Constitution. However, this document contains no references to Jesus, the Bible, God, or Christianity.(8) America is not a Christian nation. We are a secular nation. We are a free nation. Our Founders wanted it that way, and it is exciting to see their spirit still alive in the 9th circuit court of appeals.

(1) http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_rate.htm
(2) The Encyclopedia Brittanica, 1968, p. 420
(3) http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/myth.html
(4) 420Treaties and Other International Acts of the United States, ed. Hunter Miller, Vol. 2, U. S. Government Printing Office, 1931, p. 365).
(5) --Thomas Jefferson, Six Historic Americans by John E. Remsberg
(6) James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, 2000 Years of Disbelief by James A. Haught
(7) http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_rate.htm
(8) The Myth of Christian America; What you need to know about Separation of Church and State, Mark Weldon Whitten


And your point is................................................
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Hessian

Well-Known Member
Yeah Vrai, our new entry is from the land of DU.
and yes we have covered this ground before...but,
what makes it interesting is that he included a bibliography...That is a mark of earnest debating...Good!
However, we have a problem with definition of terms...the term Diest Which I have reviewed before over in the religion section.

A key thing to remember is that scholarship of the extreme left that wrote revisionist "history" of the 1960's had an audience of youing skulls full of mush and thus they were believed. Fortunately the wealth of original documents FROM THESE FOUNDERS is still available and basically pops the revisionist balloons. GW was a man of profound and abiding faith(and yes, he DID write a prayerbook!), Jefferson helped found a Calvinistical church (though later turned deist)-(note: he urged that the Bible be the chief textbook in Washington DC schools...Gee, how Anti God is that!) Adams had solid core faith as exhibited in his writings, and many faithfully attended services throughout their adult life.

Check out Justice John Marshall, John Quincy Adams, Patrick Henry...all were devout believers-NOT in a building of stone and glass, not in saints of Marble, but in the Life, Death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

So, MadWayne will have to blow the dust off some of those angry-anti-American polemics from the 1960's and actually compare them to original documents...then resign those Old Growth timber -byproducts to the dumpster.

How's that post-modernism working out for ya?
 
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Warron

Member
The history channel had a show about this subject on the Histories Myths series. It discussed how people throughout the history of the US have constantly quoted the founding fathers (many times out of context or falsely quoted them) to help support their views. The narrators conclusion was similar to what I feel. The only people who really know what the founding fathers believed is the founding fathers themselves and they are all long dead. We need to start concentrating on what people believe now, not what they believed 250 years ago.
 

G.R. Quinn

New Member
MadWayne

Isn't Christmas a National Holiday of the United States of America?

This is the day Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus the Christ.
 
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F

FredFlintstone

Guest
Re: MadWayne

Originally posted by G.R. Quinn
Isn't Christmas a National Holiday of the United States of America?

This is the day Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus the Christ.

<hr>

The only reason Christmas is celebrated by some on December 25th is that the Christian Church created the day to celebrate the birth of Christ the Jew to coincide with the pagan winter fests in a sick attempt to get their new converts to go allow with their mumbo jumbo.

I'll bet Ari Fleischer (Jewish press secretary) would feel left out if he read G. R. Quinn's subject threads.

I like Jesus. I can't stand the Christians.
 

Frank

Chairman of the Board
"The only reason Christmas is celebrated by some on December 25th is that the Christian Church created the day to celebrate the birth of Christ the Jew to coincide with the pagan winter fests in a sick attempt to get their new converts to go allow with their mumbo jumbo."

Irrelevant. Why is a NATIONAL holiday?
 

G.R. Quinn

New Member
Re: Re: America: The Christian nation

Originally posted by FredFlintstone


<hr>

The only reason Christmas is celebrated by some on December 25th is that the Christian Church created the day to celebrate the birth of Christ the Jew to coincide with the pagan winter fests in a sick attempt to get their new converts to go allow with their mumbo jumbo.

I'll bet Ari Fleischer (Jewish press secretary) would feel left out if he read G. R. Quinn's subject threads.

I like Jesus. I can't stand the Christians.


Mr. Flintstone,

I'm not sure about how the Church came up with the date of December 25th, but it is the day our Nation celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ. It is a National Holiday of the United states.

Isn't it wonderful how the Christian Church was influenced by so many different cultures? Christianity was maybe the first great Multi-cultural religion of the world. It is based on the Jewish faith, its namesake was an Asian Jew. Jesus, a Jew, born of Jewish parents, was raised in a Roman Province. He lived in Egypt. His followers were Jewish. Later, gentiles were converted. The Christian religion spread throughout the world adopting local customs into the church rituals. It became the state religion of the Roman Empire. Its center was based in Europe. The Saints of the Church are from many races and countries.

Mr. Fleischer is a great American and I doubt he would be offended by Christmas being a National Holiday.

You can't stand black Christians? If you can't stand Christians, then I guess you can't stand Jews and Muslims either.


Best,

G.R.
 
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