Fair Tax?

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
No federal income tax, no alternative minimum tax, no corporate income taxes, no capital gains taxes, no payroll taxes (including Social Security and Medicare taxes), no gift taxes, and no estate taxes. No more IRS, and you'll get your entire paycheck (minus state taxes).

Instead, just a single, "National Consumption Tax" of 23%.

You would get taxed on what you spend, NOt what you earn. Making it an income neutral tax. Every household of lawful US residents would also get a monthly payment as an advance rebate, or "prebate", of tax on purchases up to the poverty level.

The rate would then be automatically adjusted annually based on federal receipts in the previous fiscal year. With the rebate taken into consideration, the FairTax would be progressive on consumption, but would also be regressive on income at higher income levels (as consumption falls as a percentage of income).

No corporate sales tax, and no more loop holes that are in place now allowing some companies to pay no taxes, while others pay high rates. With no moer red tape, and no more sales tax, companies would create many, many more AMERICAN jobs. Helping that, would be the 23% consumption tax on all imported goods.

Simplified taxes equal greater compliance, and less evasion. The Government Accountability Office (GAO), among others, have specifically identified the negative relationship between compliance costs and the number of focal points for collection. Under the FairTax, the federal government would be able to concentrate tax enforcement efforts on a single tax. Retailers would receive an administrative fee equal to the greater of $200 or 0.25% of the remitted tax as compensation for compliance costs. In addition, supporters state that the overwhelming majority of purchases occur in major retail outlets, which are very unlikely to evade the FairTax and risk losing their business licenses. Economic Census figures for 2002 show that 48.5% of merchandise sales are made by just 688 businesses ("Big-Box" retailers). 85.7% of all retail sales are made by 92,334 businesses, which is 3.6% of American companies. In the service sector, approximately 80% of sales are made by 1.2% of U.S. businesses.

The FairTax is a national tax, but can be administered by the states rather than a federal agency, which may have a bearing on compliance as the states' own agencies could monitor and audit businesses within that state. The 0.25% retained by the states amounts to $5 billion the states would have available for enforcement and administration. For example, California should receive over $500 million for enforcement and administration, which is more than the $327 million budget for the state's sales and excise taxes. Because the federal money paid to the states would be a percentage of the total revenue collected, John Linder claims the states would have an incentive to maximize collections. Proponents believe that states that choose to conform to the federal tax base would have advantages in enforcement, information sharing, and clear interstate revenue allocation rules. A study by the Beacon Hill Institute concluded that, on average, states could more than halve their sales tax rates and that state economies would benefit greatly from adopting a state-level FairTax.

FairTax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What is the FairTax | What is a Consumption Tax | Tax Reform Solutions - Americans For Fair Taxation
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
We would be taxing illegal drug money and get "everyone" to pay their fair share this way...works for me too

Gary Johnson is also for marijuana legalization. So, add that as an item to be taxed.

I believe, in one of his online town hall meetings that he said the federal got. could earn $10 Billion just frm taxing marijuana.

::EDIT::
Harvard economist Jeffrey Miron, which suggests that if the government legalized marijuana it would save $7.7 billion annually by not having to enforce the current prohibition on the drug. The report added that legalization would save an additional $6 billion per year if the government taxed marijuana at rates similar to alcohol and tobacco.

That's as much as $13.7 billion per year

Economist Stephen Easton wrote in Businessweek that the financial benefits of pot legalization may be even bigger than Miron's findings estimate. Based on the amount of money he thinks it would take to produce and market legal marijuana, combined with an estimate of marijuana consumers, Eatson guesses that legalizing the drug could bring in $45 to $100 billion per year. Easton’s name doesn't appear on the petition.
Pot Legalization Could Save U.S. $13.7 Billion Per Year, 300 Economists Say
 
Last edited:

FreedomFan

Snarky 'ol Cuss
We would be taxing illegal drug money and get "everyone" to pay their fair share this way...works for me too

Right, we'll the reason I like consumption taxes is that I can control what I consume. I don't have a penchant for mind or state altering substances that I gratify, so I am fine with this. All else being the same with respect to taxes, I favor soft drug decriminalization, not outright legalization.
 

FromTexas

This Space for Rent
I crap on the idea of a straight consumption tax if that helps my feelings be known.

I am more of a fan of a flatter tax system with minor intervention on the progressive side (no tax up to a minimum level - poverty level perhaps) and no more than two tiers beyond that while throwing out all but one deduction.

Poverty values should be regionalized and not nationalized.

The only deduction should be based on number of family members (up to some maximum).

Finally, there should remain a capital gains tax for long term gains. This encourages more stability in holding investments in my mind and discourages playing the market - along with encouraging overall investment vice just parking it in something safe. Long term capital gains should be strictly defined.
 

tommyjo

New Member
No federal income tax, no alternative minimum tax, no corporate income taxes, no capital gains taxes, no payroll taxes (including Social Security and Medicare taxes), no gift taxes, and no estate taxes. No more IRS, and you'll get your entire paycheck (minus state taxes).

Instead, just a single, "National Consumption Tax" of 23%.

You would get taxed on what you spend, NOt what you earn. Making it an income neutral tax. Every household of lawful US residents would also get a monthly payment as an advance rebate, or "prebate", of tax on purchases up to the poverty level.

The rate would then be automatically adjusted annually based on federal receipts in the previous fiscal year. With the rebate taken into consideration, the FairTax would be progressive on consumption, but would also be regressive on income at higher income levels (as consumption falls as a percentage of income).

No corporate sales tax, and no more loop holes that are in place now allowing some companies to pay no taxes, while others pay high rates. With no moer red tape, and no more sales tax, companies would create many, many more AMERICAN jobs. Helping that, would be the 23% consumption tax on all imported goods.

Simplified taxes equal greater compliance, and less evasion. The Government Accountability Office (GAO), among others, have specifically identified the negative relationship between compliance costs and the number of focal points for collection. Under the FairTax, the federal government would be able to concentrate tax enforcement efforts on a single tax. Retailers would receive an administrative fee equal to the greater of $200 or 0.25% of the remitted tax as compensation for compliance costs. In addition, supporters state that the overwhelming majority of purchases occur in major retail outlets, which are very unlikely to evade the FairTax and risk losing their business licenses. Economic Census figures for 2002 show that 48.5% of merchandise sales are made by just 688 businesses ("Big-Box" retailers). 85.7% of all retail sales are made by 92,334 businesses, which is 3.6% of American companies. In the service sector, approximately 80% of sales are made by 1.2% of U.S. businesses.

The FairTax is a national tax, but can be administered by the states rather than a federal agency, which may have a bearing on compliance as the states' own agencies could monitor and audit businesses within that state. The 0.25% retained by the states amounts to $5 billion the states would have available for enforcement and administration. For example, California should receive over $500 million for enforcement and administration, which is more than the $327 million budget for the state's sales and excise taxes. Because the federal money paid to the states would be a percentage of the total revenue collected, John Linder claims the states would have an incentive to maximize collections. Proponents believe that states that choose to conform to the federal tax base would have advantages in enforcement, information sharing, and clear interstate revenue allocation rules. A study by the Beacon Hill Institute concluded that, on average, states could more than halve their sales tax rates and that state economies would benefit greatly from adopting a state-level FairTax.

FairTax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What is the FairTax | What is a Consumption Tax | Tax Reform Solutions - Americans For Fair Taxation

Sounds wonderful...but...a regressive tax structure does not solve our income inequality problems. In fact it makes them worse. A national sales tax, or VAT, as you are describing hurts those on the lower incomes levels. That is the basic problem with any flat tax type of proposal.

To say that it eliminates loopholes is so misleading and naive...as certain items will be immediately excluded from the sales tax...and more will be added over time.

This would do nothing to create jobs. In fact it could be net job negative as the impact on tax prep firms would be severe. It would do nothing to increase or decrease exports...unless the tax became a tariff and was unevenly applied to imports.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Sounds wonderful...but...a regressive tax structure does not solve our income inequality problems. In fact it makes them worse. A national sales tax, or VAT, as you are describing hurts those on the lower incomes levels. That is the basic problem with any flat tax type of proposal.

.

In what way would/could/should taxes - any taxes - "solve" income inequality "problems"??

Some countries employ an apparently succesful combination of VAT (with varying rates and some outright exclusiosn) and income taxes.; Norway, for example, being one I am directly familiar with.
 

ylexot

Super Genius
Sounds wonderful...but...a regressive tax structure does not solve our income inequality problems. In fact it makes them worse. A national sales tax, or VAT, as you are describing hurts those on the lower incomes levels. That is the basic problem with any flat tax type of proposal.

To say that it eliminates loopholes is so misleading and naive...as certain items will be immediately excluded from the sales tax...and more will be added over time.

This would do nothing to create jobs. In fact it could be net job negative as the impact on tax prep firms would be severe. It would do nothing to increase or decrease exports...unless the tax became a tariff and was unevenly applied to imports.
So what you're saying is that you haven't read anything about the FairTax.
 

mAlice

professional daydreamer
Sounds wonderful...but...a regressive tax structure does not solve our income inequality problems. In fact it makes them worse. A national sales tax, or VAT, as you are describing hurts those on the lower incomes levels. That is the basic problem with any flat tax type of proposal.

To say that it eliminates loopholes is so misleading and naive...as certain items will be immediately excluded from the sales tax...and more will be added over time.

This would do nothing to create jobs. In fact it could be net job negative as the impact on tax prep firms would be severe. It would do nothing to increase or decrease exports...unless the tax became a tariff and was unevenly applied to imports.

What exactly do you mean by "income inequality"?
 

awpitt

Main Streeter
Sounds wonderful...but...a regressive tax structure does not solve our income inequality problems. In fact it makes them worse. A national sales tax, or VAT, as you are describing hurts those on the lower incomes levels. That is the basic problem with any flat tax type of proposal.

To say that it eliminates loopholes is so misleading and naive...as certain items will be immediately excluded from the sales tax...and more will be added over time.

This would do nothing to create jobs. In fact it could be net job negative as the impact on tax prep firms would be severe. It would do nothing to increase or decrease exports...unless the tax became a tariff and was unevenly applied to imports.

...Except that the Fair Tax proposal is not a straight national sales tax, or VAT. It includes the "prebate" provivion.

Under the FairTax, all Americans consume what they see as their necessities of life free of tax. While permitting no exemptions, the FairTax (HR25/S13) provides a monthly universal prebate to ensure that each family unit can consume tax free at or beyond the poverty level, with the overall effect of making the FairTax progressive in application. There is no marriage penalty as the couple gets twice the amount that a single adult receives.
While everyone pays the same tax rate at the cash register, the prebate results in effective tax rates (annual taxes paid divided by annual spending) that increase as the level of spending increases a progressive tax rate structure. For example, a person spending at the poverty level has a 0% effective tax rate, whereas someone spending at twice the poverty level has an effective tax rate of 11.5%, and so on.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
Sounds wonderful...but...a regressive tax structure does not solve our income inequality problems. In fact it makes them worse. A national sales tax, or VAT, as you are describing hurts those on the lower incomes levels. That is the basic problem with any flat tax type of proposal.

A Progressive tax structure has become nothing but a huge stack of paper that is hard to decifer, inefficient, and full of loop holes catered to the rich, and certain companies. Fair Tax is NOT a VAT. there is a prebate provision that would give a tax allowance to low income families so they can pay for necessities.

Couple that with Gary Johnson's pledge to veto anything that pushes govt. spending above what they make, and I'd say it's an idea that could very well work. It's obviously a better idea than what we've been dealing with.


To say that it eliminates loopholes is so misleading and naive...as certain items will be immediately excluded from the sales tax...and more will be added over time.

As opposed to now? We have U.S. corporations paying a very high rate of taxes as compared to their counterparts overseas. However, given the wide array of credits, deductions and subsidies (i.e. “loopholes”), many companies actually pay a low rate — or no tax at all. Hell, Warren Buffet pays less in taxes than his secretary. We've got congressmen giving out to their favored constituents. For example, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, of Kentucky, is making noise about keeping the tax credit for horses in Kentucky. Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., continues to support a credit that benefits the Samuel Adams Brewery in Boston.

This would do nothing to create jobs. In fact it could be net job negative as the impact on tax prep firms would be severe. It would do nothing to increase or decrease exports...unless the tax became a tariff and was unevenly applied to imports.

So, tax prep firms somehow account for the majority of workers? Doubt it. Will you say the poor IRS workers will make the UE rate go up also when they lose their job? When a company doesn't have to pay taxes, they have more money, more money means more employees. Add to that, reform of current, rediculous regulations, and legislation, and companies could actually get going.

Just look at what's going on it Puerto Rico. Fortuno came in, vut his own pay, slahed the size of the govt., reformed the revenue code to include a 50% tax cut for individuals and 30% for businesses, beginning with a 7–14% tax cut for individuals and a 7% tax cut for businesses effective during tax year 2010. May of 2010, PR's UE rate was over 16%. Now, just 2 years later, it's already down to 13.7%. Is it what the people wanted? Hell no, there was rioting, teachers walked out, etc., but what ended up happening? Fiscal year 2009-10 ended with a $2 billion structural deficit, followed by a $1 billion structural deficit in 2010-11, $610 million in fiscal year 2011-12, $332.7 million in 2012-13, with a goal of achieving a structurally balanced budget by July 1, 2013.

:buddies:
 

FromTexas

This Space for Rent
...Except that the Fair Tax proposal is not a straight national sales tax, or VAT. It includes the "prebate" provivion.

Except, unlike other 'flatter' tax proposals, there is a larger gap once you exceed a certain level of income. It essentially reverses the curve at higher levels of income. Other flat tax proposals negate the impact to low incomes while also ensuring the tax does not unequally affect the middle income levels to the higher incomes.

You could essentially get to extremely high income levels that pay less than a couple percent in income while middle to low income earners, who are the biggest consumers proportionate to income, pay the heaviest load.

It may fix the low end but it gets more and more regressive the higher it goes. Not that I should be arguing this as 1%er in training. :lol:
 

MarieB

New Member
In what way would/could/should taxes - any taxes - "solve" income inequality "problems"??

Some countries employ an apparently succesful combination of VAT (with varying rates and some outright exclusiosn) and income taxes.; Norway, for example, being one I am directly familiar with.


Have you seen the income tax rates in Norway? They are high - income tax is 28%

Take the example at the link. Even if you reduce the amount of national insurance to that what we pay in SS & Medicare, it's still much, much higher. Now add on that VAT
http://www.inc.com/magazine/20110201/comparing-tax-rates-in-the-us-and-norway.html
 

FromTexas

This Space for Rent

tommyjo

New Member
In what way would/could/should taxes - any taxes - "solve" income inequality "problems"??

Some countries employ an apparently succesful combination of VAT (with varying rates and some outright exclusiosn) and income taxes.; Norway, for example, being one I am directly familiar with.

A combination is not what was described...

If you don't understand the basic principal of tax revenues as a means to help those less fortunate, then there is no need for me to expound.
 
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