Is alcoholism a disease or just a BS cop out for weak individuals?

The American Medical Association (AMA) stated alcoholism was a disease, as it met the five criteria needed in order to be considered a disease: pattern of symptoms, chronicity, progression, subject to relapse, and treatability.

There are four phases of the disease. Most people, in the first or pre-alcoholic stage, are usually amazed how much they can drink. In fact, many may joke about their "hollow leg" or being able to drink their friends "under the table." Other symptoms of this first phase include: drinking to provide relief from stress and mental fatigue, or to relax; seeking more opportunities when drinking will occur; and a gradual development of increase in tolerance (use of more and more alcohol to get the same desired effects).

In the second and early stage of the illness, the person may have alcohol-induced blackouts. These are amnesia-like periods that occur while drinking, when the person seems to be functioning normally but will later have no recall of some or all of what he or she said or did. The individual may not remember getting home or having said something hurtful or outlandish to another person. Other symptoms include: sneaking extra drinks before or during events; gulping the first drink or two; and feelings of guilt.

The third or middle stage of alcoholism is a crucial phase, for loss of control sets in. This is the inability to drink according to intention. Once the first drink is taken, the individual can no longer predict what will happen, even though the intention may have been to only have a few drinks. Other symptoms include: drinking bolstered with excuses; grandiose and aggressive behavior; persistent remorse; increase in amount and frequency of drinking; failure of repeated attempts to control drinking; failed promises and resolutions to self and others; loss of interests; avoidance of family and friends; trouble with money and work; unreasonable resentments; problems with the law; neglect of food and loss of willpower; tremors and early morning drinks; decrease in alcohol tolerance (needing less alcohol to feel the effect); and the beginning of physical deterioration.

The fourth, final and late state of alcoholism is chronic. Up until this point, the individual may have been successful in maintaining a job, but now drinking occurs earlier in the day and can go on all day. Symptoms in this stage include: onset of lengthy intoxications; moral deterioration; impaired thinking; indefinable fears; obsession with drinking; and vague spiritual desires. A person may not develop all of these symptoms or in this particular order, but there is a continual loss of control.

For me I was in the third phase when I painfully became aware of my problem and was faced with an intervention that a loved one abruptly brought upon me. I resisted and denied believing that I had a problem for a while, but then I met others like myself on the road to recovery. I listened to them, saw myself in their stories, and without getting help to quit I am convinced that I would have ruined my life and the lives of those that I love more than life itself.

This site from the National Institute of Health has a wealth of information relating to alcoholism. http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/faq/q-a.htm It might be worth reading to some of you that do not think of alcoholism as a disease and then again it might not.

What do you think?

Stop right there, hoss. I didn't say it was a "cop out for weak minded individuals". I said it was a behavioral issue, like any other form of addiction. Do you consider drug addiction a "disease"? How about chronic gambling? Overeating? What about smoking? Is that a disease?

I don't give a fig what kind of touchy feely "it's not your fault" garbage the AMA puts out. Alcoholism can cause disease (cirrhosis of the liver, among other things), but it's not a disease.

Other side effects....

It can sometimes cause you to wake up in a run-down motel room with skanky women too.

At least, that's what I hear.

First Hossette, I can picture you in a big white rounded cowboy hat (not to mention the rest of that visualization that I shall keep to myself), I never said that you said that nor even implied it. I have heard this from many different people over the years and at one time I even felt that way myself. I just thought this was a timely topic of discussion considering the other thread from today. If you feel I was directing this at you, Dems or any of the others that partook in that thread you can be assured that I am not. I am just tossing it up for general discussion.

As to alcoholism being an addiction, for some I would say yes, for others I would say not necessarily so. To call it an addiction I would need to know how you define the term to comment further. When I was a drinker it wasn’t an everyday ordeal, it wasn’t as soon as I got up that I needed it, it wasn’t my whole life as addictions usually are. I would go weeks without it, but once I started that was it. I would go until obliterated or unconscious. There was no moderation to my drinking at all. I was wide open until I was physically unable to continue. In some ways I would say that I showed addictive behavior and in others I did not.

As to the term “disease” it seems that those in the medical profession are the ones that have established the criteria for that. Could they be wrong or a little too liberal in the classification? Certainly, but who am I to say they are wrong in making that determination? Maybe it would be better classified as a disorder, but again I simply don’t know.

Kyle said:

It can sometimes cause you to wake up in a run-down motel room with skanky women too.

At least, that's what I hear.

Click to expand...

A little case of coyote ugly?

vraiblonde said:

Stop right there, hoss. I didn't say it was a "cop out for weak minded individuals". I said it was a behavioral issue, like any other form of addiction. Do you consider drug addiction a "disease"? How about chronic gambling? Overeating? What about smoking? Is that a disease?

I don't give a fig what kind of touchy feely "it's not your fault" garbage the AMA puts out. Alcoholism can cause disease (cirrhosis of the liver, among other things), but it's not a disease.

Click to expand...

As someone that drinks more beer than probably any of you on a daily basis, in my particular case I'm afraid I have to agree with Vrai in that it's an addiction. But that's in my particular case and I cannot/will not say that for some others it doesn't represent a disease. Everyone is different, some don't drink at all, some now and then and some overdo it. In my opinion, those that overdo it could easily be classified differently as well. Finally something on here I do know a little about and can add my two cents.

Ken King said:

First Hossette, I can picture you in a big white rounded cowboy hat (not to mention the rest of that visualization that I shall keep to myself),

Click to expand...

Chaps and spurs?

I fear that we will never live in a world where cop outs for all of our "complexities" won't be used for or against us, by or against us, in one way or another.

In this example, one person can lift jail time out of a driving offense by pleading "disease" of alcoholism and stating that he'll seek help through AA or whatever program is offerred.

In a reverse scenario, that cry of "diseased" will come back to haunt him if he has to admit it on an employment background check.

Play with your words with great caution.

Personally, I strongly and firmly believe that alcoholism is a disease as well as alcohol an addiction. Gambling and drug abuse - as mentioned in another post, are diseases of normal body functioning - (Merriam-Webster - a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning) - normal mental functioning.

Last time I checked, the brain is a part of the body. Pretty much the most important part, don't you think?

My opinion on the "meetings can cure a person" mentality just doesn't work in any concept of the statement. Endless of amounts of med and drug $ keeps rolling into rehab and research. Individuals continue to enter into hospitals, seemingly hopeless, to undergo true physical withdrawal. They are then, in addition to physically being treated to overcome their illness, started on a path of cognitive and behavioral reapproachment to life. Sounds like a disease to me.

Many of the support programs out there - AA, etc. are there like physical therapy for someone who has already undergone the surgery for the knee. It's a support system after the "big step", it's to keep you focused (all of the really hard little steps after), keep you goal oriented and to remember where you were and how to help others "heal their knees too" so they can run again, without crutches.

virgovictoria

I'm not to sure on how to read your statement "Personally, I strongly and firmly believe that alcoholism is a disease as well as alcohol an addiction?. Are you suggesting it's both at the same time or separate items? I suggested it could be separates depending on the person so maybe we are agreeing, but maybe not. My question would be that if they are separate items, where does one draw the line between them?

I’ve worked in law enforcement too long to disagree with vrai. I am a diabetic, have been for a long time. I started out as a hypoglycemic and then, at some point, in the last few years, turned diabetic. This has been regulated by diet, solely on diet and if I add exercise to that regimen I do better, but the main goal is to stick within the constraints of “the diet” to control the disease, therefore I avoid it. Where is being an alcoholic any different? There is a way, thru behavior modification, to regulate the disease. I cannot go hang out at the donut shop and not be tempted, the same way an alcoholic cannot go to a bar and avoid a drink. Those that cannot get a grip on this disease, which I will agree does fall within the dictionary definition of a disease vaguely because it might be considered “abnormal,” lack self-control and only self-control.

Alcohol is an addiction, the same way smoking is an addiction, the same way over eating is an addiction, the same way drug abuse is an addiction, the same way sexually deviate behavior is an addiction, and the only way to cure that is thru ones own self-control.

Kizzy, do you realize we're going against what the great AMA says? Doesn't that make us unAmerican or something?

oldman said:

virgovictoria

I'm not to sure on how to read your statement "Personally, I strongly and firmly believe that alcoholism is a disease as well as alcohol an addiction?. Are you suggesting it's both at the same time or separate items? I suggested it could be separates depending on the person so maybe we are agreeing, but maybe not. My question would be that if they are separate items, where does one draw the line between them?

Click to expand...

Meaning... alcoholism, to me, is the disease process in which the addiction of alcohol impairs the body to function normally.

Sorry if I am not altogether clear.. I am a bit sleepy. Hope this helps!

oldman said:

Kizzy, do you realize we're going against what the great AMA says? Doesn't that make us unAmerican or something?

Click to expand...

It makes us Americans that are sick and tired of excuses for weak behavior. This will open a window, next thing you know, people who lack self-control will expect a government handouts for everything. There has to be a line drawn somewhere, I say.

I've heard all the excuses in the book. I have sat in court and listened to defendants use their “disease” as an excuse to rob, rape, or whatever else they may be before the court for that day, and each and every time they decide to re-offend.

virgovictoria said:

Meaning... alcoholism, to me, is the disease process in which the addiction of alcohol impairs the body to function normally.

Sorry if I am not altogether clear.. I am a bit sleepy. Hope this helps!

Click to expand...

No problem VV. Just wanted to understand better. I'll go so far as to suggest I agree the addiction of alcohol impairs the body to function normally but I'm not overly confident that leads to alcoholism and the disease process. I would still maintain it depends on the individual. As some background, I've been to drug/alcohol classes in D.C. (after two months I lied and told the instructor I was an alcoholic, etc., just to get out of the class) and AA in the past, just for my drinking beer. When anyone hears how much I drink I've "got to be" an alcoholic so I've been labeled. I'm learned the phrase I'm in denial, but in all honesty I do not believe I am. Has it caused problems in my life, yes, but only because I carry that label - not for anything I've ever done. AA was a real turn off to me because I heard how these others got into real trouble for drinking and I had to keep telling myself I've never done anything like that. It was like they were criminals so why am I here. Just wanted to give you this background as a basis for my feelings about the subject.

Kizzy said:

It makes us Americans that are sick and tired of excuses for weak behavior. This will open a window, next thing you know, people who lack self-control will expect a government handouts for everything. There has to be a line drawn somewhere, I say.

I've heard all the excuses in the book. I have sat in court and listened to defendants use their “disease” as an excuse to rob, rape, or whatever else they may be before the court for that day, and each and every time they decide to re-offend.

Click to expand...

I agree totally with you, which is why I do not automatically call it a disease. I'm glad to see that the judges are finally coming around to jailing those that kill others while DWI. "If" I were to do that I'd expect to suffer the consequences.
People need to take responsibility for their own actions no matter what and quit trying to blame it on someone or something else.

I don't want to label a person who drinks beyond their reasonable limits an alcoholic becasue I have a really hard tiem understanding how a person can allow it to rule over theri lives in that manner. That makes me think it's a cop out, an excuse to not have to take responsibility for their actions. My fater was a drunk, my brother is a drunk and a druggie. My uncle killed himself doing drugs. The man whom I spent the last three years of my life with drank too much, and Ken's statement at the beggining of this thread describes him almost to a "T".
I refuse to admit he was an alcoholic, the man can go weeks with out a drink. He can go out and drink and socialize liek "normal" people, but there are those times when he goes out of control. He is not the same person....It's frightening.
I think that there are those who are diseased by alocoholism, those who have stopped eating food regularly, those who's hands shake so badly they can barely handle the money to pay for their next drink, even though they would register way past the limit a normal person on a breathalizer....Those at that point need it physically, but mentally it's the need to keep drinking that keeps em drinking, it will always be a matter of your mind thinking it needs it.
My brother, my father, were immediate maniacs when under the influence.
I hate people like that, who let better judgement be buried by the booze. I don't think anyone should drink every day.
If it's a disease then perhaps what they say about having the "gene" is true...I worry alot about that, coming from a family of addicted people. I drink, I have done drugs, I have gotten out of control, but not wanting to be like them has always brought me back. It makes me sick to think that I would care so little about my life, my kids, my karma/dogma, to let chemicals make me in to a bad person. I would be happy if there were no drugs or alcohol. No place to hide, so to speak..Deal with what you have, reality is what these people start hiding from...It's a crutch, a reason not to care. It's bullshiat.

Here's the deal...

...there is NO disagreement in this thread that excessive use of alcohol is a major life problem and that one must actually lift the glass.

As for disease vs. addiction, I am in agreement with those who say alcohol affects people differently. This doesn't necessarily exclude it from being a disease and I would suspect that cancer and degree of severity, or susceptabilty to cancer, varies by individual as well.

Throw in anything you can think of, disease and addiction, and I think we'd agree that there is no hard and fast rules for any of it as regards to how it affects each individual.

My folks have dieted to a very successful degree. They both look and feel great and are as obnoxious as any drunk. That's not literally true. They're worse. No, that's not true, but you know what I mean, yes? It's their 'addiction'.

Here's the difference to me;

No one seeks a disease in order to belong to a cancer survivors club or whatever (except in Fight Club and even then they were faking it and it is a movie). Smokers risk their health not to get sick early and die but because they enjoy smoking.

People drink, do drugs, eat to excess and Rambo diet in my opinion, to fill a need; the need to belong, the need to avoid problem(s), to avoid the need to change, take responsibility, to grow up. There just aren't very many people who have substance problems who have good, solid happy lives.

There are plenty of people fighting a disease who are otherwise in great shape.

This is making me thirsty.

vraiblonde said:

I don't give a fig what kind of touchy feely "it's not your fault" garbage the AMA puts out. Alcoholism can cause disease (cirrhosis of the liver, among other things), but it's not a disease.

Click to expand...

Larry Gude said:

There just aren't very many people who have substance problems who have good, solid happy lives.

Click to expand...

a double Gude

I have always thought it was a cop out. No different than laziness or addiction to gambling.