I just read the following article

http://thebaynet.com/news/index.cfm/fa/viewstory/story_ID/5732

and from the sound of things the administration changes and the superintendent have things OUT OF CONTROL throughout St. Mary's County Public Schools.

When is the administration and superintendent going to be held responsible for the schools that are out of control?

Sure you can blame the students and you can blame the fact that there is not parental supervision at home, but when my child get harassed, bullied, or assaulted without provocation that should be on the school system and rest firmly on the superintendent.

I mean really. Kids bringing pellet guns to school. Last time I checked a police officer in the heat of the moment isn't going to be able to identify that from a "real" gun, and the student is going to end of shot by the officer. It will be a tragedy that the officer and school administration will have to go through for no reason.

Why are the principals the only one's being held somewhat responsible?

I guess no one wants to discuss this over on their forums?

I guess no one wants to discuss this over on their forums?

Guessed right!

I just read the following article

http://thebaynet.com/news/index.cfm/fa/viewstory/story_ID/5732

and from the sound of things the administration changes and the superintendent have things OUT OF CONTROL throughout St. Mary's County Public Schools.

When is the administration and superintendent going to be held responsible for the schools that are out of control?

Sure you can blame the students and you can blame the fact that there is not parental supervision at home, but when my child get harassed, bullied, or assaulted without provocation that should be on the school system and rest firmly on the superintendent.

I mean really. Kids bringing pellet guns to school. Last time I checked a police officer in the heat of the moment isn't going to be able to identify that from a "real" gun, and the student is going to end of shot by the officer. It will be a tragedy that the officer and school administration will have to go through for no reason.

Why are the principals the only one's being held somewhat responsible?



Yeah the situation is getting worse not better. The superintendent appointed some lame a** committee to ride herd over school safety. Our kids are so vulnerable both inside and outside the school. On any given day, you can get into any one of the schools simply by going through maintenance areas left open to the outside, teachers prop doors open for fresh air or they take kids outside and prop the doors open so that they don't have to use their keys. The school system would be wise to seek the advice of true professionals on building security issues. As far as the threat within goes, what is reported in the article is only the tip of the iceberg. School administrators are urged by the superintendent via Ms. Lyon to suspend as the last resort. High suspensions are bad p.r. and we all know how much the superintendent enjoys his own reputation and reflection. Principals by and large have to send most students right back into the classrooms. Repeat offenders go to the alternate school. This is solving nothing. It is much like having the state highway put up a traffic signal after a death at the intersection. Same thing, the student has to do something almost lethal to be sent away. Although, Ms. Lyon has served on the school safety task force for many years, she lacks the backbone and knowledge to enforce or pontificate on school safety and behavior. Why she is involved as a leader regarding school safety is anyones guess. Probably because she makes the perfect pawn for the superintendent.

What's the problem?
You want some kid with a squirt gun to be locked up?

I completely agree that more needs to be done. With No Child Left Behind though, many students are not allowed out of the building for more than 10 days...it ties the hands of those in the education field.


The 10 day rule has nothing to do with NCLB. It is a special education law that says students who receive special education services cannot be suspended for more than 10 days.

What's the problem?
You want some kid with a squirt gun to be locked up?


I hope you are being saccastic.... If not:

The problem is simple. I bet you I can point a "squirt gun" at you from twenty feet away and you wouldn't know the difference in the time it takes to make a life or death decision. The high schools all have uniformed officers in them. If he caught a glimpse of anything resembling a gun, he is going to draw a bead and ask you to do as he says, if the kid turns and does anything foolish---- bang he's dead.

Yeah the situation is getting worse not better. . the answer in the past, particularly at some schools was to not report or to simply not discipline the little felon. In the past. I was told that at certain schools the students were returned to classes and the teachers were reprimanded for sending them to the office for diciplenary action. The reason was simple, if the student was suspended it would be a negative mark on the principals record because it would make the school, and in turn the SMCPS look bad.
So, would you rather have them disciplining the kids or simply sending them back to class armed?

the answer in the past, particularly at some schools was to not report or to simply not discipline the little felon. In the past. I was told that at certain schools the students were returned to classes and the teachers were reprimanded for sending them to the office for diciplenary action. The reason was simple, if the student was suspended it would be a negative mark on the principals record because it would make the school, and in turn the SMCPS look bad.
Wow.

And they can't figure out why kids are so disrespectful and act out the way they do.

the answer in the past, particularly at some schools was to not report or to simply not discipline the little felon. In the past. I was told that at certain schools the students were returned to classes and the teachers were reprimanded for sending them to the office for diciplenary action. The reason was simple, if the student was suspended it would be a negative mark on the principals record because it would make the school, and in turn the SMCPS look bad.
So, would you rather have them disciplining the kids or simply sending them back to class armed?
:yeahthat: Fact is... you are better off seeing a number of diciplinary actions rather then little or no numbers at all. Kids are going to act up and test the system regardless of which school or who is principal. To me... schools with next to no numbers are an indication of sweeping the problems under the rug.

Inconsistency is a big problem as well. I talked to several AP secretaries and they all say the same thing. The APs don't give the same punishment consistently. Today you get suspended for acting up, tomorrow it's in school suspension.

In regards to No Child Left Behind, I think it is a moronic policy that is geared towards training kids to take tests rather than learn to be critical thinkers.

The real world is not a series of standardized tests, multiple guess, true-false, and fill in the blank.

I wonder what would happen if teachers were actually given breathing room to teach critical thought processes, analysis, and projects rather than always being under the gun to get Johnny and Sally a passing score on some test.

I think back to my nuclear navy training and in all my two years of training in math, physics, engineering technology, chemistry, and nuclear science, we took only essay tests. You had questions at the top of the page and blank space under it to write your answers. The only multiple guess exams were general navy advancement exams which were only part of the advancement process.

If I were the Dept of Ed, I'd do away with much of the standardized testing and allow administrators and teachers to the freedom to teach to their unique population of students and relate to them on common turf.

Call me crazy, but a second grade class in Kenosha, WI and a second grade glass in LP, MD might be different kids from different backgrounds and influences and just might need to be taught differently rather than carbon copy them into some government molded exam series of competencies.

This is why I and many of my peers enjoy tutoring so much, because we can teach how we want without bureaucratic nonsense.

Call me crazy, but a second grade class in Kenosha, WI and a second grade glass in LP, MD might be different kids from different backgrounds and influences and just might need to be taught differently rather than carbon copy them into some government molded exam series of competencies.


I agree with you but shouldn't there still be some sort of standardized way of assuring that the kids in Kenosha and LP City are all meeting certain minimum standards? It seems that multiple choice/true-false type of tests are the easiest way to do that. Essay style tests make it more difficult because you can have three different teachers grading one student’s essay answer and you’ll end up with three different grades because each teacher has their own unique thought process.

I guess no one wants to discuss this over on their forums?


ok the article is on the GAYNET!

Is it wort my time to look at it:shrug:

I have first hand experience with schools pushing stuff under the rug.

When my oldest was in elementary school, she had to deal with an idiot boy on the bus bullying her every day. She dealt with it pretty well, until she comes home one day and tells me that this boy said to her: "I'm going to come to your house one night and break into your bedroom window and kill you and write "B----" on the wall in your blood."

This was VERY disturbing to me - and coming from a 4th grader! :yikes: Why did he say this? Because she told him he had buck teeth, because he was picking on her again. I think his reaction was a quite a bit over the top.

So I went to the school and talked to the principal. She said he was already suspended from the bus for other reasons, so my daughter wouldn't have to deal with him. I tried to push it further, but they wouldn't listen to me and they reprimanded my daughter for telling the little SOB that he had buck teeth. They said if she hadn't said that, maybe he wouldn't have said what he did. :yikes: I was so stunned I didn't know how to react. The cops wouldn't have anything to do with it. I regret I didn't push it even further - and I probably should have. Luckily she's not around the idiot much anymore. She sees him in middle school but just stays away from him.

the answer in the past, particularly at some schools was to not report or to simply not discipline the little felon. In the past. I was told that at certain schools the students were returned to classes and the teachers were reprimanded for sending them to the office for diciplenary action. The reason was simple, if the student was suspended it would be a negative mark on the principals record because it would make the school, and in turn the SMCPS look bad.
So, would you rather have them disciplining the kids or simply sending them back to class armed?

you have got to be talking about great mills high :yay: this is what they do

What's the problem?
You want some kid with a squirt gun to be locked up?

i thought it also implied anything that resemble :shrug:

I agree with you but shouldn't there still be some sort of standardized way of assuring that the kids in Kenosha and LP City are all meeting certain minimum standards? It seems that multiple choice/true-false type of tests are the easiest way to do that. Essay style tests make it more difficult because you can have three different teachers grading one student’s essay answer and you’ll end up with three different grades because each teacher has their own unique thought process.

Every state has its own assessments that are different from every other state's. Maryland has the Maryland State Assessments (MSA), Virginia has Standards of Learning (SOL-- a very unfortunate set of letters!), etc...

you have got to be talking about great mills high :yay: this is what they do
They are not the only ones with this attitude. I've heard the same rumors about a certain Middle School in Charles County :whistle:

The policy is failing because the Teachers and School systems are not adequetly teaching the students, and due to financial pressure (schools monies are tied to Testing results) are now teaching student how to pass the tests instead.

WRONG! The policy is failing because you cannot force a student to learn. The teachers and schools are not failing the students. The parents are failing their own children. With the rare exception, most students who fail to improve do so through their own election. They don't turn in work, refuse to participate in class and the behavior is pretty much reinforced through the parents lack of action or worse yet rewarded.

WRONG! The policy is failing because you cannot force a student to learn. The teachers and schools are not failing the students. The parents are failing their own children. With the rare exception, most students who fail to improve do so through their own election. They don't turn in work, refuse to participate in class and the behavior is pretty much reinforced through the parents lack of action or worse yet rewarded.
*DING* *DING* *DING* Exactly! :clap:

I agree with you but shouldn't there still be some sort of standardized way of assuring that the kids in Kenosha and LP City are all meeting certain minimum standards? It seems that multiple choice/true-false type of tests are the easiest way to do that. Essay style tests make it more difficult because you can have three different teachers grading one student’s essay answer and you’ll end up with three different grades because each teacher has their own unique thought process.

You make valid points. Finding the right balance is the key. Balance is subjective to the population you teach.

The overall theme of my opinion is that giant systems are inefficient.

I know and it went into action with NCLB. And it does have something to do with it because many kids who are causing problems fit into this category.

Did I misunderstand or are you saying the biggest problem creators in school are those enrolled in special education?

Wow! Would you mind explaining your source? Throw in a few examples maybe?

Also, maybe teachers need to work full time jobs and spend that summer creating projects and doing more in preparation. I like year round school. The onus is on the parents, but where there are no parents, do we just brush the innocent child aside? Many teachers are surrogate parents. I still think of my HS principal as a father figure. The excellent teachers I had at Spanish River HS in Boca Raton, FL gave me their all and then some which inspired me to return the favor. Its called 200% accountability. Of course, the only classes I cared about were Science related and English, so a heartfelt apology to my math teachers.

The reason I dropped out of a teaching major (Elem Education) and joined the Navy was because of the politics of teaching.

That is why I tutor and mentor: No Politics.

Politics inhibit the child.

I am sick and tired of teachers and teachers unions forcing their politcal agendas on students. Many are just a bunch of whiny little "blanks" that can't cut it without government and beauracratically protected positions.

I have a son in the 6th grade that attends LMS. This past year he got into a fight with a boy that had been bullying him since the first day of school. He went to his teacher about it and to the counselor prior to the incident. They did nothing. He talked to me about it and I told him not to pay any attention to him. As long as he paid attention the boy would keep on. (Easier said than done I know.) I did not go to the principal, teacher or counselor about it because I wanted him to try to handle it on his own.

Well the fight happened. I was not notified about it nor did my son get to tell his side of the story, but the other kid did. I went back to my handbook and wouldn't you know her boss lives right down the street from me. So I went to him about it. She did not follow through with the due process.

The next morning I went to the school and sat her straight. I was very upset at the fact I was not notified and that she could not suspend my son for 3 days without notifying me first. She told me they were very busy in the office and I told her that was a bunch of bull. You mean to tell me know one if that office could take 5 mins out of there day to let me know about this.(This was the first time he had done anything wrong.) She did not give my son his chance at explaining his side of the story. So she gave him a chance to explain himself. She told him know matter what happens that he should not hit back and he should have gotten a teacher right away. I told her I was not worried about what she thought, that if a kid is going to hit my kid first he is going to strike back. She also told me that I should have contacted the school about the bullying and I told her that I was trying to let him be responsible and if they were not going to listen to a student about it what difference would it had made if I did something about it. I also told her that I knew the referral had not been enter into the computer yet and I wanted it destroyed. It was destroyed and I also told her that I felt my son's safety was a concern to me. She told me if she thought safety was a concern here she would not be there. I told her money talks bullsh!t walks. You come in clean up the school and move up the ladder. She didn't like that too much. Needless to say I got what I wanted before I left. He was not suspended and the referral was thrown out the door.

WRONG

The concept behind No Child Left Behind was valid, unfortunately the School system is thinking about dollars and not losing budget

How true that is. Do you know that there is now a form for parents to fill out if there child is special ed to receive more funding for them.

No that is not what I said. Those words never came out of my mouth. I said NCLB works if the child wants to learn. Any child can learn as long as they want to. Many students that cannot be throw out of school (like many suggest) cannot be because of the 10 day rule. There are problems created by those enrolled in special education and those not enrolled in special education. Do not put word in my mouth.

Barnacle said the 10 day rule was a special education law stating that students who receive special ed services cannot be suspended for more than 10 days.

You said in response - I know and it went into action with NCLB and it does have something to do with it because many kids who are causing problems fit into this category.

Perhaps I should have asked you what category you were talking about? What kids? If you were responding to Barnacle and Barnacle was talking about special education kids?

I'm trying to picture the kids I know in wheelchairs, my child who can barely look at anyone in the face, the kids that cannot feed themselves, etc etc, being labeled as the kids who are causing problems. Believe me it's a stretch.

Maybe teachers need to work year round jobs...you really do not know what teachers do during the summer. With starting so early it is really only two months without kids, but many counties have professional development over the summer. Dedicated teachers will work over the summer and put in everything to making the school year meaningful.

I know what some teachers do during the summer and I know what dedicated educators do during breaks.

I shadowed enough teachers througout HS and College: Round 1 to get the gist of the educational system as I perceived it.

You cannot deny that politics don't filter into many classrooms.

I like year round school.

I experienced year round school when I lived in Colorado. As a kid, I liked it because there seemed to be more breaks throughout the year. I can’t remember the exact rotation but it was something like eight weeks of school then two weeks off and so on…..

They are not the only ones with this attitude. I've heard the same rumors about a certain Middle School in Charles County :whistle:

that may be true, however, i can only comment on what i know

WRONG! The policy is failing because you cannot force a student to learn. The teachers and schools are not failing the students. The parents are failing their own children. With the rare exception, most students who fail to improve do so through their own election. They don't turn in work, refuse to participate in class and the behavior is pretty much reinforced through the parents lack of action or worse yet rewarded.


:yay: :yay: :yay:

Those were not the special education children I was talking about you were ASSuming.

Your comment wasn't very clear. Thanks for straightening it out and your extraordinarily clever use of the word assuming. I'm obviously in the presence of quick witted, sheer genius and just didn't recognize it. My bad hairy one.