Against the tongue of slanderers, My son, take it not to heart if some people think ill of you, and if they say of you what you do not like to hear.
Let not your place depend on the tongues of men. For whether they put a good or bad construction on what you do, you still are what you are.

-On the Imitation of Christ

I know that all fundamentalists aren't neo nazis, but some of them are. Please take these people into your arms, educate them as to less aggressive ways of getting their point across. Living in this melting pot we are exposed to all different kinds of people. One cannot expect these archaic gender roles to be universally relevent in this day in age.

Read. I implore you. Educate yourself, use your imagination a little. There are a lot of good reference materials out there. Remember to keep an open mind.

Just as you feel that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Hindus feel that Krishna is the perfect man, a god of love. He is a treasure to his followers. Muslims are also plagued by fundamentalism in some sects and are just as much if not more militant than Christians.

The inability to see a bigger picture is a constant human struggle we all must face. I don't expect it can be resolved overnight, but if we work together I'm sure we can find a solution to this pluralistic mess our world has become.

Thank you for your time. I will leave you alone now.

God Bless, Om Namah Shivaya

Against the tongue of slanderers, My son, take it not to heart if some people think ill of you, and if they say of you what you do not like to hear.
Let not your place depend on the tongues of men. For whether they put a good or bad construction on what you do, you still are what you are.

-On the Imitation of Christ

I know that all fundamentalists aren't neo nazis, but some of them are. Please take these people into your arms, educate them as to less aggressive ways of getting their point across. Living in this melting pot we are exposed to all different kinds of people. One cannot expect these archaic gender roles to be universally relevent in this day in age.

Read. I implore you. Educate yourself, use your imagination a little. There are a lot of good reference materials out there. Remember to keep an open mind.

Just as you feel that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Hindus feel that Krishna is the perfect man, a god of love. He is a treasure to his followers. Muslims are also plagued by fundamentalism in some sects and are just as much if not more militant than Christians.

The inability to see a bigger picture is a constant human struggle we all must face. I don't expect it can be resolved overnight, but if we work together I'm sure we can find a solution to this pluralistic mess our world has become.

Thank you for your time. I will leave you alone now.

God Bless, Om Namah Shivaya


Pluralistic mess?

Your re-hashing arguments that have already been made and refuted.

Pluralistic mess?

Your re-hashing arguments that have already been made and refuted.

Sorry, I wasn't here. Refuted? by whom? I want a second opinion.

Sorry, I wasn't here. Refuted? by whom? I want a second opinion.

First and only time I will agree with foodcritic.

I thought this was going to be a thread of Dazed apologizing to all of us.

Oh well... :1bdz:

I thought this was going to be a thread of Dazed apologizing to all of us.

Oh well... :1bdz:

Since you are so tender on the subject of the Bible's infallibility. I'm sorry you are offended, not sorry I did it.

Since you are so tender on the subject of the Bible's infallibility. I'm sorry you are offended, not sorry I did it.

You do realize you don't really make much sense when you type, right?

First and only time I will agree with foodcritic.

that's the mob mentality working on you. strength in numbers. i can exhibit the same sort of strength without the majority on my side.

You do realize you don't really make much sense when you type, right?

read between the lines

read between the lines

People say that all the time and it never makes sense. Short of holding up your index, middle, and ring fingers and saying it, its just....idiotic.

You are clearly dazed...

People say that all the time and it never makes sense. Short of holding up your index, middle, and ring fingers and saying it, its just....idiotic.

You are clearly dazed...


Lewd gestures do not prove arguments. Fundamentalists have a problem with irony. They need things spelled out for them explicitly.

Don't mistake that for actual knowledge. It's a cop out if you ask me.

Lewd gestures do not prove arguments. Fundamentalists have a problem with irony. They need things spelled out for them explicitly.

Don't mistake that for actual knowledge. It's a cop out if you ask me.

How? If you believe the bible is infallible, then clearly you are a fundamentalist.

I guess they are a bit troubled with irony.

How? If you believe the bible is infallible, then clearly you are a fundamentalist.

I guess they are a bit troubled with irony.

Perhaps I should have been more clear. I will dispute the infallibility of the Bible means...fill in the blanks.

"The high spirits of kindness may look like malice"
-Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead"
-God

Only God didn't say that. Whoever made that road sign said it. It carries less than divine connotation when you speak for God being that (s)he's beyond human comprehension.

Since you are so tender on the subject of the Bible's infallibility. I'm sorry you are offended, not sorry I did it.

Not offended nor expect you to be sorry. Just thought that what it was going to be about.

Make no difference to me......... :shrug:

that's the mob mentality working on you. strength in numbers. i can exhibit the same sort of strength without the majority on my side.

A majority of what? Words? You do have that.

Not offended nor expect you to be sorry. Just thought that what it was going to be about.

Make no difference to me......... :shrug:

Okay. I feel ya. I know it's more desirable to be gentle with people. I try to be when possible but a discussion is a discussion.

Welcome to Post-Modernism friends. Things just got complicated.

Lewd gestures do not prove arguments. Fundamentalists have a problem with irony. They need things spelled out for them explicitly.

Don't mistake that for actual knowledge. It's a cop out if you ask me.

I haven't quite defined what you are (in the context of these religious discussions) yet, but whatever you are, you are a fundamenatlist at it.

A majority of what? Words? You do have that.

I don't need a majority to back me up. Appealing to the majority is another logical fallacy worth discussing.

Okay. I feel ya. I know it's more desirable to be gentle with people. I try to be when possible but a discussion is a discussion.

Welcome to Post-Modernism friends. Things just got complicated.

It's only as complicated as you make it.

I haven't quite defined what you are (in the context of these religious discussions) yet, but whatever you are, you are a fundamenatlist at it.

I think you may be confused as to what fundamentalism is or at least how I define it. Fundamentalism is narrow. It excludes other worldviews.

As a humanist, I'd rather look at the whole of humanity rather than quibble over details as they do in Bible studies.

I can entertain different ideas without buying into them completely.

It's only as complicated as you make it.


Good retort on that one babe *rolls eyes*

You do realize you don't really make much sense when you type, right?

The first time I agreed with Gwydion........:killingme

Is'nt obvious that dazed&fallen is not a real name it's a mental/phyiscal condition that occured to the writer....:killingme

The first time I agreed with Gwydion........:killingme

Is'nt obvious that dazed&fallen is not a real name it's a mental/phyiscal condition that occured to the writer....:killingme

It's not a real name!?! Really? I'll have to show you my birth certificate Jeez.

I was a student of comparative religion.

You may think the way is narrow, but try the wide angle lense. It's far out.

Good retort on that one babe *rolls eyes*

There's a smilie for that...... :rolleyes:

There's a smilie for that...... :rolleyes:

Call me old fashioned. I hate emoticons most of the time. People mistake them for being clever. It's just not the case.

I think you may be confused as to what fundamentalism is or at least how I define it. Fundamentalism is narrow. It excludes other worldviews.

As a humanist, I'd rather look at the whole of humanity rather than quibble over details as they do in Bible studies.

I can entertain different ideas without buying into them completely.

I know exactly what you're talking about regarding fundamental beliefs in the Bible. Your belief that the bible is fallible and therefore faulty, is exclusionary and slimly falls in line with a fundamental belief.

I haven’t quite figured out if you dismiss the Bible as valid as a whole or just the literal belief of it. So, until then I intend to just screw with your head.

Call me old fashioned. I hate emoticons most of the time. People mistake them for being clever. It's just not the case.

:cds:

I know exactly what you're talking about regarding fundamental beliefs in the Bible. Your belief that the bible is fallible and therefore faulty, is exclusionary and slimly falls in line with a fundamental belief.

I haven’t quite figured out if you dismiss the Bible as valid as a whole or just the literal belief of it. So, until then I intend to just screw with your head.


No it does not. I'm sorry. The "I'm rubber you're glue" argument doesn't work here sorry.

Believe whatever you want. That doesn't make it logical and consistent.

No it does not. I'm sorry. The "I'm rubber you're glue" argument doesn't work here sorry.

Believe whatever you want. That doesn't make it logical and consistent.

You're being dismissive, so let's be direct. Where do you stand on the Bible? Is it the valid Word of God Yahweh or is it a book of fiction?

You're being dismissive, so let's be direct. Where do you stand on the Bible? Is it the valid Word of God Yahweh or is it a book of fiction?


The Bible is a collection of myths, friend. Myths give meaning to our lives but It's a tall order to ask a grown man to take them literally.

The Bible is a collection of myths, friend. Myths give meaning to our lives. It's a tall order to ask a grown man to take them literally.

You're tanking a lot of grown men. Billions of them. It's an even taller order expounding endlessly, as to the myth, to a bunch of people you know will never change their minds.

You're tanking a lot of grown men. Billions of them. It's an even taller order expounding endlessly, as to the myth, to a bunch of people you know will never change their minds.

They have sacrificed their intellects for comfort. There's nothing wrong with that, It's a very human thing to do. It's like drinking beers.

However this sort of view doesn't stand up to any sort of empirical criticism. Logic and rationality are what the world needs right now, not more religious zealots.

The Bible is a collection of myths, friend. Myths give meaning to our lives but It's a tall order to ask a grown man to take them literally.

I take literally the fact that Jesus was a man born roughly 2000 years ago that had a following of people that loved him and his sermons. I believe he was crucified and buried for his beliefs and upon his death many people truly believed he was the son of god. I believe that these people had their lives touched, just as many hundreds of thousands of people in the world do now, by the words and actions presented in the bible about his teachings.

I believe that the Bible -is- a godly text, one that can bring happiness and joy to millions of people that do believe it literally. I believe that each person should have their choice as to what they believe in and I am not one to deny people their beliefs.

It is not a tall order to ask a man to believe in the bible. It is a tall order to ask YOURSELF if you believe in the bible.

They have sacrificed their intellects for comfort. There's nothing wrong with that, It's a very human thing to do. It's like drinking beers.

However this sort of view doesn't stand up to any sort of empirical criticism. Logic and rationality are what the world needs right now, not more religious zealots.

Why do you feel the need to empricially criticize the belief? Yes, religious fanatics are harming the society, but the people that believe in their respected religions and assume responsibility for both their souls and persons are not endangering anybody.

I take literally the fact that Jesus was a man born roughly 2000 years ago that had a following of people that loved him and his sermons. I believe he was crucified and buried for his beliefs and upon his death many people truly believed he was the son of god. I believe that these people had their lives touched, just as many hundreds of thousands of people in the world do now, by the words and actions presented in the bible about his teachings.

I believe that the Bible -is- a godly text, one that can bring happiness and joy to millions of people that do believe it literally. I believe that each person should have their choice as to what they believe in and I am not one to deny people their beliefs.

It is not a tall order to ask a man to believe in the bible. It is a tall order to ask YOURSELF if you believe in the bible.


If you say so friend.

If you say so friend.

pst, im not your friend. you are a zealot and according to your own text, we don't want you.

Why do you feel the need to empricially criticize the belief? Yes, religious fanatics are harming the society, but the people that believe in their respected religions and assume responsibility for both their souls and persons are not endangering anybody.

People do very bad things with only the best intentions. That's the problem with sacrificing your intellect. Emo bashing for instance.

pst, im not your friend. you are a zealot and according to your own text, we don't want you.

As you will.

I take literally the fact that Jesus was a man born roughly 2000 years ago that had a following of people that loved him and his sermons. I believe he was crucified and buried for his beliefs and upon his death many people truly believed he was the son of god. I believe that these people had their lives touched, just as many hundreds of thousands of people in the world do now, by the words and actions presented in the bible about his teachings.

I believe that the Bible -is- a godly text, one that can bring happiness and joy to millions of people that do believe it literally. I believe that each person should have their choice as to what they believe in and I am not one to deny people their beliefs.

It is not a tall order to ask a man to believe in the bible. It is a tall order to ask YOURSELF if you believe in the bible.


Remember that the gospels were written 40 years after Christ came and went. It's hard to get an accurate picture of what occured 40 days after something happens.

Only two of the 4 writers were original. I don't want to use the word "tall tale" but I think it may be appropriate in this case.

They have sacrificed their intellects for comfort. There's nothing wrong with that, It's a very human thing to do. It's like drinking beers.

However this sort of view doesn't stand up to any sort of empirical criticism. Logic and rationality are what the world needs right now, not more religious zealots.

Logic and rationality, in this context, brought us the USSR, Communist China and N. Korea; where practicing such beliefs are banned. What's rational about that? Logic and rationality, in this context, removes personal responsibility and replaces it with government manated thinking.

In both of their true contexts – logic and religious belief – neither are rational. There is no rationality in a God. It goes aganst every physical aspect of our lives. Humans reject the thought of a spirit and a God that created it because it can’t be detected with the senses. Logic fails because it attempts to disclaim that which cannot, in the fathom of believers, be disclaimed and it tries to disclaim that which is not logical from a physical standpoint.

So, what are you left with…………………. Faith. You cannot take away my faith with logic. It’s something you have to come to understand on your own and it is not influenced by any other person. Your logic completely dismisses (let alone underestimates) the power of my God. And that’s where you will always miss the mark.

Logic and rationality, in this context, brought us the USSR, Communist China and N. Korea; where practicing such beliefs are banned. What's rational about that? Logic and rationality, in this context, removes personal responsibility and replaces it with government manated thinking.

In both of their true contexts – logic and religious belief – neither are rational. There is no rationality in a God. It goes aganst every physical aspect of our lives. Humans reject the thought of a spirit and a God that created it because it can’t be detected with the senses. Logic fails because it attempts to disclaim that which cannot, in the fathom of believers, be disclaimed and it tries to disclaim that which is not logical from a physical standpoint.

So, what are you left with…………………. Faith. You cannot take away my faith with logic. It’s something you have to come to understand on your own and it is not influenced by any other person. Your logic completely dismisses (let alone underestimates) the power of my God. And that’s where you will always miss the mark.


That's where personal responsibility becomes important. Things cannot be mandated by government. There's no free will in that.

"Miss the Mark!!" how clever of you to say that. You're speaking in didactic again. sorry to point that out.

Logic and rationality, in this context, brought us the USSR, Communist China and N. Korea; where practicing such beliefs are banned. What's rational about that? Logic and rationality, in this context, removes personal responsibility and replaces it with government manated thinking.

In both of their true contexts – logic and religious belief – neither are rational. There is no rationality in a God. It goes aganst every physical aspect of our lives. Humans reject the thought of a spirit and a God that created it because it can’t be detected with the senses. Logic fails because it attempts to disclaim that which cannot, in the fathom of believers, be disclaimed and it tries to disclaim that which is not logical from a physical standpoint.

So, what are you left with…………………. Faith. You cannot take away my faith with logic. It’s something you have to come to understand on your own and it is not influenced by any other person. Your logic completely dismisses (let alone underestimates) the power of my God. And that’s where you will always miss the mark.

Very well said.

Very well said.

You like that didactic, don't you?

That's where personal responsibility becomes important. Things cannot be mandated by government. There's no free will in that.

"Miss the Mark!!" how clever of you to say that. You're speaking in didactic again. sorry to point that out.

How do you know what to be personally responsible for without the morals of religious text or laws to abide by?

You like that didactic, don't you?

Opinion != didactic

How do you know what to be personally responsible for without the morals of religious text or laws to abide by?

I believe in cause and effect. If you do something bad, it's gonna come back to you. Karma in short. That's personal responsibility.

Opinion != didactic

Please explain.

I believe in cause and effect. If you do something bad, it's gonna come back to you. Karma in short. That's personal responsibility.

Please explain how you believe in something that is not rational.

Haha, now THAT is what we call circular logic.

Please explain how you believe in something that is not rational.

Haha, now THAT is what we call circular logic.


I appeal to rationality to make decisions not to an archaic text. Understood?

I appeal to rationality to make decisions not to an archaic text. Understood?

Nope, you believe in karma. You believe in Cause and Effect. Both of which are irrational things that were written about in archaic texts.

So, explain.

Nope, you believe in karma. You believe in Cause and Effect. Both of which are irrational things that were written about in archaic texts.

So, explain.


Old Testament Levitical laws were written for practicalities sake. Now that they have ceased to be practical we've done away with many of them.

Buddhism is a different sort of religion than you'd expect. Usually there's not quite as much dogma. it's less canned and more practical.

Old Testment Levitical laws were written for practicalities sake. Now that they have ceased to be practical we've done away with many of them.

Buddhism is a different sort of religion than you'd expect. Usually there's not quite as much dogma. it's less canned and more practical.

Didn't answer the question. Answer it, and we can continue our conversation.

Didn't answer the question. Answer it, and we can continue our conversation.

I won't argue to the death about the validity of these texts. My rational mind tells me that I have to have some sort of gameplan in this life to keep me out of trouble. The world is changing, morality is changing. I am able to use my mind to make good decisions on these new issues without dogma.

I won't argue to the death about the validity of these texts. My rational mind tells me that I have to have some sort of gameplan in this life to keep me out of trouble. The world is changing, morality is changing. I am able to use my mind to make good decisions on these new issues without dogma.

Your mind is irrational. You simply saying "it is" is nothing more than these christians are doing.

So, clear up that idea and I will continue. How can YOUR idea of rationality be better than, say, psy's version of rationality?

Your mind is irrational. You simply saying "it is" is nothing more than these christians are doing.

So, clear up that idea and I will continue. How can YOUR idea of rationality be better than, say, psy's version of rationality?


I don't always make the best decisions. I am human like everyone else. My rationality demands evidence, it is not contingent on a leap of faith.

I don't always make the best decisions. I am human like everyone else. My rationality demands evidence, it is not contingent on a leap of faith.

But you believe is something irrational. So, once again, how is your belief better than anybody else's?

But you believe is something irrational. So, once again, how is your belief better than anybody else's?

Believe in bold letters. Like that makes it stronger. I believe in things I find evidence for.

Cause and Effect is practically mathematical.

In this world you must demand evidence otherwise people will rob you blind.

Believe in bold letters. Like that makes it stronger. I believe in things I find evidence for.

Cause and Effect is practically mathematical.

In this world you must demand evidence otherwise people will rob you blind.

Cause and effect is not mathematical. Not when it comes down to karma.

So, I am demanding evidence that karma, your belief, is real.

That's where personal responsibility becomes important. Things cannot be mandated by government. There's no free will in that.

Oh but they can. People have been put in jail for practicing their religion in such countries. Some have had their tongues cut out. Some have been crucified for it. They have been silenced.

"Miss the Mark!!" how clever of you to say that. You're speaking in didactic again. sorry to point that out.

There's no didacticism here. I'm simply applying logic to this discussion in order to counter your logic. If you get a moral lesson out of it, then that's a bonus.

Cause and effect is not mathematical. Not when it comes down to karma.

So, I am demanding evidence that karma, your belief, is real.

You can postulate something without believing it. That's what Plato was all about, if you read Plato.

You like that didactic, don't you?

You like the word "didcatic" don't you?

You like the word "didcatic" don't you?

When I find it fitting.

You can postulate something without believing it. That's what Plato was all about, if you read Plato.

Nope, I was busy in college working on a real degree.

And you said, clearly, that you believe in karma. That wasnt a postulation. It was a belief.

So, once again, explain.

Nope, I was busy in college working on a real degree.

And you said, clearly, that you believe in karma. That wasnt a postulation. It was a belief.

So, once again, explain.


I don't want to make a semantic argument out of the word belief. Do you?

I don't want to make a semantic argument out of the word belief. Do you?

Clearly, after all of these useless threads you've created you do. So yes. After having discussions of people that believe in things that are not exactly rational, you have said you believe in something that is irrational.

Its just, I don't understand how anything you have said this entire time has any weight now that we all know you are just another christian, except your "god" is an idealogy that somehow what you do in life has an effect on what you recieve.

I won't argue to the death about the validity of these texts. My rational mind tells me that I have to have some sort of gameplan in this life to keep me out of trouble. The world is changing, morality is changing. I am able to use my mind to make good decisions on these new issues without dogma.

Morality is changing? That's interesting... the basic tenets of Christian faith are the 10 Commandments. That is the moral base for our faith. Tell me one Commandment, from a moral standpoint that has changed.

Clearly, after all of these useless threads you've created you do. So yes. After having discussions of people that believe in things that are not exactly rational, you have said you believe in something that is irrational.

Its just, I don't understand how anything you have said this entire time has any weight now that we all know you are just another christian, except your "god" is an idealogy that somehow what you do in life has an effect on what you recieve.


My "God" does not demand faith as a prerequisite to his understanding.

Morality is changing? That's interesting... the basic tenets of Christian faith are the 10 Commandments. That is the moral base for our faith. Tell me one Commandment, from a moral standpoint that has changed.


It's different then it was in Levitical Law. Trust me babe. We eat shellfish and we can dress how we like. I was referring to gender roles which are weakening in case you haven't noticed.

My "God" does not demand faith as a prerequisite to his understanding.

Nor does the christian's god. I understand him perfectly well without faith.

Irrationality....

It's different then it was in Levitical Law. Trust me babe. We eat shellfish and we can dress how we like. I was referring to gender roles which are weakening in case you haven't noticed.

Nice.

Nor does the christian's god. I understand him perfectly well without faith.

Irrationality....

Then how can you believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God?

Nice.

Proves what? I said weakening, not demolished. I speak how I like. That's the virtue of free enterprise.

Then how can you believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God?

I don't. But thats not what you said.

And what religion are you that you have a god?

I don't. But thats not what you said.

And what religion are you that you have a god?

God is not an image. No image lives up to God. God is nature, God is spirit.

God is like the force, in us and all around us. (s)he cannot be contained to a particular set of codes and dogma.

God is not an image. No image lives up to God. God is nature, God is spirit.

God is like the force, in us and all around us. (s)he cannot be contained to a particular set of codes and dogma.

So how is that rational?

So how is that rational?

God cannot be understood rationally. Sometimes I feel God in the form of synchronicity. That is all the evidence I need.

I don't need a church

I don't need a Bible

And I sure as hell don't need a religious forum.

Believe in bold letters. Like that makes it stronger. I believe in things I find evidence for.

Cause and Effect is practically mathematical.

In this world you must demand evidence otherwise people will rob you blind.

You just proved my early point right here. You are trying to apply a rational argument against something that is not rational on the premise of physical evidence. If you are demanding physical evidence for God then you are right... God does not exist. You're looking in the wrong place.

You believe in Karma. How is it that Karma works? I know you claim it can be explained through math... but how is it that these causes and their effects happen in the way they do? Why is it the sun can emit so much energy and heat to keep this planet in a perfect temperature to maintain life? You can give me all the math you want to explain it, but it does not truly explain why. The math only satisfies your demand for a physical answer, but it does not truly explain why. Why when you throw a rock in the water it makes a splash? Sure you can go into all sorts of scientific explanations as to what’s happening, but that science does not explain why.

At a certain point in our understanding, we just accept that this is how our physical world operates. It’s not different with a Christian’s faith. The only difference is we don’t need all sorts of math to explain it to us. We accept that life is a result of an intelligent being we like to call God.

God cannot be understood rationally. Sometimes I feel God in the form of synchronicity. That is all the evidence I need.

I don't need a church

I don't need a Bible

And I sure as hell don't need a religious forum.

But seem to need a religious forum to rant on about how God doesn't exist. Sort of an oxymoron don't you think?

God cannot be understood rationally. Sometimes I feel God in the form of synchronicity. That is all the evidence I need.

I don't need a church

I don't need a Bible

And I sure as hell don't need a religious forum.

Wait, what? Circular logic again. You believe in an irrational God. So who cares if people, that believe in the same god as you, decide to go to church and read the bible?

And if you don't need a religious forum, I am more than certain nobody here will miss you when you leave.

You just proved my early point right here. You are trying to apply a rational argument against something that is not rational on the premise of physical evidence. If you are demanding physical evidence for God then you are right... God does not exist. You're looking in the wrong place.

You believe in Karma. How is it that Karma works? I know you claim it can be explained through math... but how is it that these causes and their effects happen in the way they do? Why is it the sun can emit so much energy and heat to keep this planet in a perfect temperature to maintain life? You can give me all the math you want to explain it, but it does not truly explain why. The math only satisfies your demand for a physical answer, but it does not truly explain why. Why when you throw a rock in the water it makes a splash? Sure you can go into all sorts of scientific explanations as to what’s happening, but that science does not explain why.

At a certain point in our understanding, we just accept that this is how our physical world operates. It’s not different with a Christian’s faith. The only difference is we don’t need all sorts of math to explain it to us. We accept that life is a result of an intelligent being we like to call God.


There is much we don't know. That's why people have formulated myths to explain things.

I am not disputing the existence of God. It's a moot point.

I am disputing the infallibility of the Bible remember?

Wait, what? Circular logic again. You believe in an irrational God. So who cares if people, that believe in the same god as you, decide to go to church and read the bible?

And if you don't need a religious forum, I am more than certain nobody here will miss you when you leave.

That's not the point. I might stick around because you find me so loathsome. I find the bible to be a narrow archaic reference that limits the capacity for human understanding of the world we live in. It's a public forum. If you don't like my posts, don't read them.

I refuse to quibble with you about the details of morality.

It's different then it was in Levitical Law. Trust me babe. We eat shellfish and we can dress how we like. I was referring to gender roles which are weakening in case you haven't noticed.

I know what you're talking about... no sense in getting crass. Is this some veiled proof that the Bible is fallible?

That's not the point. I might stick around because you find me so loathsome. I find the bible to be a narrow archaic reference that limits human capacity. It's a public forum. If you don't like my posts, don't read them.

I refuse to quibble with you about the details of morality.

I don't find you loathsome. I find you to be a terribly bad explainer and unable to form your own logical thoughts so you toss out a few rather uneducated posts then attempt to create something out of nothing.

I believe you to post the exact same thing over and over again, never actually saying anything and attempting to piss off people without a cause.

And nope, public forum so I will read your post and I will remind you every single time that you are believing in the very thing that you are arguing against.

The bible is irrational. So are your beliefs. If you can believe in one, others can believe in the other.

There is much we don't know. That's why people have formulated myths to explain things.

I am not disputing the existence of God. It's a moot point.

I am disputing the infallibility of the Bible remember?

They've also fomulated complex computations to explain things like the big bang and black holes; theories that are easily argued as myth.

If the Bible is a Myth then where does this leave us with God?

I know what you're talking about... no sense in getting crass. Is this some veiled proof that the Bible is fallible?

It's pretty much everywhere once you start to read. Men wrote the Bible with the needs of the state in mind. The state has changed, the Bible has not.

Read some Levitical law. It's a bit of an eye opener to say the least.

They've also fomulated complex computations to explain things like the big bang and black holes; theories that are easily argued as myth.

If the Bible is a Myth then where does this leave us with God?


God speaks to everyone differently. How do you know it's God? That's personal responsibility again. You have to use your judgement. The one God gave you.

I feel bad for people that believe their 2bit education makes them more knowledgeable about faith than people whom have faith.

That is my belief.

Pretty much everywhere once you start to read. Men wrote the Bible with the needs of the state in mind. The state has changed, the Bible has not.

Read some Levitical law. It's a bit of an eye opener to say the least.

Why would the Bible change since it is already written? It was written over a period of about 1800 years. Which state would you be referring to?

I feel bad for people that believe their 2bit education makes them more knowledgeable about faith than people whom have faith.

That is my belief.

As opposed to the 2 bit education you get in church? Gladly Sir.

As opposed to the 2 bit education you get in church? Gladly Sir.

On matters of religion and faith, I would rather have that be taken from a church or mosque or synagogue. I find it funny people waste money on such worthless degrees.

Why would the Bible change since it is already written? It was written over a period of about 1800 years. Which state would you be referring to?


It was written for political reasons. That's what I'm getting at. It's like that morbidly narrow British song "God save the King"

It was written for political reasons. That's what I'm getting at. It's like that morbidly narrow British song "God save the King"

What political party?

God speaks to everyone differently. How do you know it's God? That's personal responsibility again. You have to use your judgement. The one God gave you.

When I am around other Christians that have similar experiences, I know it's the same God. There's nothing irresponsible about that. In fact it all-the-more confirms God for me, if that were even possible.

On matters of religion and faith, I would rather have that be taken from a church or mosque or synagogue. I find it funny people waste money on such worthless degrees.

I didn't even tell you what my degree was in friend. Visual Communications Design. I wanted to know about world religions from a non biased perspective.

It's difficult to be non biased but some are better at it than others.

When I am around other Christians that have similar experiences, I know it's the same God. There's nothing irresponsible about that. In fact it all-the-more confirms God for me, if that were even possible.


What you feel is a pooling of emotional energy that manifests itself through worship and sublime expression.

You needn't be in church to feel this. Any group will suffice.

I didn't even tell you what my degree was in friend. Visual Communications Design. I wanted to know about world religions from a non biased perspective.

It's difficult to be non biased but some are better at it than others.

Oh, sorry, I don't get influenced by biases, I opt to hear the people that actually understand their own practice explain something to me then allow myself to determine which, if any, I am influenced by the most.

PS. Congrats on being able to make a flyer look pretty.

What you feel is a pooling of emotional energy that manifests itself through worship and sublime expression.

You needn't be in church to feel this. Any group will suffice.

And the fact that she found it in the church....?

People claim that a church is not the building but the people inside.

Oh, sorry, I don't get influenced by biases, I opt to hear the people that actually understand their own practice explain something to me then allow myself to determine which, if any, I am influenced by the most.

PS. Congrats on being able to make a flyer look pretty.

I can do a lot of things that would probably surprise you. Let's stick to the subject eh?

I can do a lot of things that would probably surprise you. Let's stick to the subject eh?

Posters too? Awesome! Public forum, remember?

And the fact that she found it in the church....?

People claim that a church is not the building but the people inside.

It needn't be a Christian group. Any group can form this sort of warm static when they set their minds to it.

Posters too? Awesome! Public forum, remember?

Alright you got me. You seem like a man of the world. A hard rugged type character. What do you do for a living then?

Alright you got me. You seem like a man of the world. A hard rugged type character. What do you do for a living then?

Peruse the religion forums looking for geniuses.

What you feel is a pooling of emotional energy that manifests itself through worship and sublime expression.

You needn't be in church to feel this. Any group will suffice.

You're right, I don't need to go to church to feel this. Actually I get this feeling more from music than I do anywhere else. But that's another discussion.

Peruse the religion forums looking for geniuses.

Oh well. That's a pretty lucrative industry as I understand. Find any yet? Good luck with that.

You're right, I don't need to go to church to feel this. Actually I get this feeling more from music than I do anywhere else. But that's another discussion.


Exactly! Now you're gettin it!

Oh well. That's a pretty lucrative industry as I understand. Find any yet? Good luck with that.

Yup, Psy seems to be getting there. Constructing coherent sentences is a key factor in the decision. And being grandiloquent is not.

Yup, Psy seems to be getting there. Constructing coherent sentences is a key factor in the decision. And being grandiloquent is not.

You mean effeminate? Art tends to do that to you Bucko. My sentence structure is not the issue and you know it.

You mean effeminate? Art tends to do that to you Bucko. My sentence structure is not the issue and you know it.

Nope, grandiloquent. Bucko.

Peruse the religion forums looking for geniuses.

You get paid for that? Wow, do they have any openings?

Nope, grandiloquent. Bucko.

Touche, Maybe if you're a bumpkin.

Exactly! Now you're gettin it!

You're assuming too much about yourself. I got it a long time ago.

So, to summarize this thread...

You believe that irrational people need to open their eyes, while you are irrational.

And you believe that people should believe in irrational things, so long as they are not being told what to irrationally believe in?

You're assuming too much about yourself. I got it a long time ago.

How much is too much? Perhaps there are things you don't know, that i do. It's a possibility at least.

How much is too much? Perhaps there are things you don't know, that i do. It's a possibility at least.

I highly doubt you have the slightest idea when she "got it".

Bucko.

So, to summarize this thread...

You believe that irrational people need to open their eyes, while you are irrational.

And you believe that people should believe in irrational things, so long as they are not being told what to irrationally believe in?

You oversimplify. I think churches and bibles are too narrow to contain the phenomenon that is God. That's why people kill each other. Everyone thinks their way is the only way. Kapeesh?

I highly doubt you have the slightest idea when she "got it".

Bucko.

Did I teach you a new word? It has a nice ring to it doesn't it?

You oversimplify. I think churches and bibles are too narrow to contain the phenomenon that is God. That's why people kill each other. Everyone thinks their way is the only way. Kapeesh?

What is one thing that you believe should be added to the bible to better contain the phenomenon that is god?

Or, better yet, quit wasting your time on a public forum and due what Luther did and make a few changes to the bible and create your own religion branch.

What is one thing that you believe should be added to the bible to better contain the phenomenon that is god?


The Gospel of Thomas would be a start but then people would just claims THAT was the infallible word of God.

People are sheepish like that. They don't like to think for themselves much.

Or, better yet, quit wasting your time on a public forum and due what Luther did and make a few changes to the bible and create your own religion branch.


I have no interest. I think religion should be personalized. I think it should be about what you have in your heart not what other people tell you you ought to believe.

The Gospel of Thomas would be a start but then people would just claims THAT was the infallible word of God.

People are sheepish like that. They don't like to think for themselves much.

So you believe another archaic text will solve the problem of the bible being an archaic text?

Its...becoming so clear what you are talking about!

You oversimplify. I think churches and bibles are too narrow to contain the phenomenon that is God. That's why people kill each other. Everyone thinks their way is the only way. Kapeesh?

It's not intent of the Bible or any Church to "contain the phenomenon that is God". They are there for support in our belief. It's like a book on driving. There is no book that would teach you everything you need to know about driving a car. You have to drive it. The more you drive it, the better you become.

"Containing the phenomenon that is God" is achieved in daily practice of our faith as a person, not solely dependent on a place or a book to do it all for us. In fact that is but a very part of one's faith.

And don't include me in "everyone". I don't claim my way is the only way. I only know it works for me.

So you believe another archaic text will solve the problem of the bible being an archaic text?

Its...becoming so clear what you are talking about!


The word should be read differently is what I'm saying. Is that not clear enough for you bumpkin?

It's not intent of the Bible or any Church to "contain the phenomenon that is God". They are there for support in our belief. It's like a book on driving. There is no book that would teach you everything you need to know about driving a car. You have to drive it. The more you drive it, the better you become.

"Containing the phenomenon that is God" is achieved in daily practice of our faith as a person, not solely dependent on a place or a book to do it all for us. In fact that is but a very part of one's faith.

And don't include me in "everyone". I don't claim my way is the only way. I only know it works for me.


Then you are saying the Bible is fallible and church is not needed. Why are we arguing?

The word should be read differently is what I'm saying. Is that not clear enough for you bumpkin?

Nope, not clear enough. The bible is the number one selling book in the world. Has been and probably will always be. Each person that reads it reads it in their own way and manner and, irregardless of what their chosen religious faction tells them, they make up their own mind as to what they read.

So, it has been read by millions and millions of people. How more differently can it be read?

Nope, not clear enough. The bible is the number one selling book in the world. Has been and probably will always be. Each person that reads it reads it in their own way and manner and, irregardless of what their chosen religious faction tells them, they make up their own mind as to what they read.

So, it has been read by millions and millions of people. How more differently can it be read?

Read it as a book written by men. Cast a critical eye on it.

The word should be read differently is what I'm saying. Is that not clear enough for you bumpkin?

So the word should be read according to your interpretation? Doesn't that just fit nicely into your claim:

Everyone thinks their way is the only way.

So the word should be read according to your interpretation? Doesn't that just fit nicely into your claim:

It's called Post Modernism. God speaks to everyone differently. Just because (s)he said something to you doesn't mean it applies to your neighbor.

Anyway toodles for now. I do have a life and obligations believe it or not.

Then you are saying the Bible is fallible and church is not needed. Why are we arguing?

NoooooooOOOO... I'm saying the Bible is our guide. If it was fallible it would not be a reliable source for explaining who God is. “Gray’s Anatomy" does not contain the phenomenon that is the human body. But it is a guide to helping doctors with the human anatomy. There are tons of books that go into detail that Gray’s does not, but none of them – even as a collective – can touch the complexity of the human body. Church is a valuable part of our faith. Just like people that love the Doobie Brothers gather together to listen to them play Christians go to church to hear someone preach about God and worship their God together. But that does not mean that they can “contain the phenomenon that is God”. There is nothing that can contain all that is God.

I have no interest. I think religion should be personalized. I think it should be about what you have in your heart not what other people tell you you ought to believe.

This goes to show what you understand about a relatioship with God. It is a personal relationship. No one's is the same as anyone else's. I mean this is like saying if your a Republican you believe everything the Republican party believes in. There is no such thing. There is a common philosophy. Beyond that, it's personal and individual.