Do you think we should or shouldn't and why?

Absolutely Not!

The system will never correct itself if money is just pumped into it by a govt bailout. GM (and others) need an internal restructure, stop outsourcing so much, and build a better quality product to compete. If they cannot do that, then they SHOULD fold.

I kinda hate saying that, as I really like GM products and my next truck was also going to be a GMC.

Absolutley not! The unions that proclaim to "take care of their members" are the ones that have caused the automakers to become unprofitable. All the current economy has done is to bring their situation to the forefront. Let the union take care of the problem with the dues they have collected and the benefits they have extorted from the companies. It is time the worker is no longer exploited by the unions! Unions have become what they were founded to prevent!

American auto makers thumbed their noses at their customer base now it's our turn to thumb our noses at them. So long GM, Ford and Chrysler. Maybe in another life you'll take care of your customers.

I say no BUT the problem is this. If GM were to go into chapter 13 they could renogotiate contracts, trim waste and come out better. The problem is if GM goes into bankruptcy the fear is that people will stop buying GM cars because they will fear not having dealer/manufacturer support for parts, service and warranty repairs. This will kill GM even if they slash waste and come out leaner and meaner.

No, if they would produce a quality product, then foreign manufacturers would not be stomping them. I like chevy, but will probably never own one again because I really don't like fixing them all the time. I've had a Toyota for 120,000 miles and all I've had to do is put oil and gas into it and change the tires.

When I make financial "mistakes"? Once again; how can we expect our children to take responsibility for their own actions when we have lawmakers, CEOs, clergy etc etc getting help.

Oh I forgot...welfare too!

There is NO accountability in this country while a simple "I'm sorry" makes everything ok???? Are you kidding me?????

Shame on you, you and you for rolling over and allowing it. If I have to be responsible for my actions and my kids for theirs then you do for yours too.

No.

GM CEO's 2007 compensation worth $15.7 million - Boston.com (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2008/04/27/gm_ceos_2007_compensation_worth_157_million/)

General Motors Corp. Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner received compensation valued at $15.7 million for 2007, up 64 percent from the previous year, according to a federal regulatory filing the company made on Friday.

more stories like thisWagoner earned $1.56 million in salary and no bonus last year, but he received incentive awards of $1.8 million, and stock options and restricted stock valued at $11.7 million, according to the filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.

GM lost a record $38.7 billion in 2007, largely due to a charge for unused tax credits. Without the charges and other one-time items, the company lost $23 million.

Also in the filing, the company said it had changed its pension plan so executives can retire at age 60 with full benefits. The company's retirement age was 62. The AP does not include pensions in its compensation figure.

Wagoner received $45,291 for personal and business use of company aircraft, $164,561 worth of security benefits and $185,472 for life insurance and death benefits, according to the filing.

Here's another take on it..... kind of goes along with what Pete said earlier about part/supplies/service.
Battle over Big Three bailout looms in lame-duck Congress - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/17/big.three.auto.bailout/)

"One out of 10 jobs in this country are auto-related. Twenty percent of retail sales are auto-related or automobiles, so this is a national problem," Sen. Carl Levin, D-Michigan, told NBC's "Meet the Press" on Sunday.

...I'd rather see 'bail outs' for manufacturers and defense contractors than I would Wall Street. Insurance and banking come AFTER manufacturing.

Nobody was greeted by bankers and insurers at Jamestown.

We should have bailed out homeowners and put money into the homes to pay mortgages; you remember; the source of the problem.

:tap:

No.

Ford CEO Mulally got $28 million for four months on job - Apr. 5, 2007 (http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/05/news/companies/ford_execpay/)

Struggling Ford Motor Co., which posted a record $12.7 billion net loss in 2006, gave its new CEO Alan Mulally $28 million for four months on the job, according to the company's proxy statement filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission Thursday.

No

Chrysler CEO's silence about his pay does not help repair his reputation - International Herald Tribune (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/08/11/business/NA-FIN-ANL-US-Chrysler-CEO-Pay.php)

Instead, the former Home Depot home improvement chain CEO — who left the home improvement retail chain in January with a controversial $210 million (€153.85 million) severance package — stayed mum on what he would be making while trying to lead struggling Chrysler out of its funk.

...I'd rather see 'bail outs' for manufacturers and defense contractors than I would Wall Street. Insurance and banking come AFTER manufacturing.

Nobody was greeted by bankers and insurers at Jamestown.

We should have bailed out homeowners and put money into the homes to pay mortgages; you remember; the source of the problem.

:tap:
I agree totally with this. The problem is how do you spread out 700 billion to the roots? Knowing government, the cost creating a Bureau of Mortgage Adjustment and Relief would take half the 700 Billion as overhead.

No.

Ford CEO Mulally got $28 million for four months on job - Apr. 5, 2007 (http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/05/news/companies/ford_execpay/)

Struggling Ford Motor Co., which posted a record $12.7 billion net loss in 2006, gave its new CEO Alan Mulally $28 million for four months on the job, according to the company's proxy statement filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission Thursday.

...and that cost what, $9.30 per vehicle, sold for the year? $28 mill/2.9 million vehicles sold.


Good Lord, if his leadership found a way to squeeze $9.31 more profit out of each car, he paid for himself and did the company some good. I wish you all would apply some broader perspective to these type numbers.

That loss is $4200 per car/truck. $9 per unit is NOT the problem.

:tap:

I agree totally with this. The problem is how do you spread out 700 billion to the roots? Knowing government, the cost creating a Bureau of Mortgage Adjustment and Relief would take half the 700 Billion as overhead.

...you hire Larry Gude, give him $10 mil in cash (I work cheap) and get out the mans way. That's how.

Already, my trillion dollar/20 million house/$50,000 for mortgages plan would have fixed housing overnight, along with the ####wads on Wall Street and insured a happy, healthy Christmas for all. Including car makers who would have seen a spike in sales this fall. Not to mention a healthy spike in poinsettia sales.

But, noooooooooooooooooooo.

...and that cost what, $9.30 per vehicle, sold for the year? $28 mill/2.9 million vehicles sold.


Good Lord, if his leadership found a way to squeeze $9.31 more profit out of each car, he paid for himself and did the company some good. I wish you all would apply some broader perspective to these type numbers.

That loss is $4200 per car/truck. $9 per unit is NOT the problem.

:tap:

I made this point earlier in another thread regarding the salary of the GM CEO. His salary came to just under 90 cents per unit.

It is the vulgarity of someone making $8 million or $15 million that stikes people and maked them angry even though that 15 million is like a spit in the ocean.

Do you think we should or shouldn't and why?

No. And you have the most disgusting avatar I've ever seen.

do you think that the manufacturers are failing at the same time? Both are right on the verge, both need the same exact bailout. Did they both make the same mistakes? Neither was able to gain a competitive advantage? Neither is just a little bit stronger than the other?

Why would they want to be so weak right now? Consider this:

They ask for a bailout. Americans get upset. Obama steps in to solve it all with universal health insurance. The automakers no longer have to fund their union healthcare plans. They are now on a level playing field with their competitors. They are suddenly solvent. Obama is a hero for saving Detroit.

Hmmmm......

Don't Bail them out make them compete just as Honda Toyota and Nissan have to do.

And the added costs per are a result of bad practices in the past. They need to stop blaming pay for their mistakes and make a good product.

They will get it just like the airlines did if we let them.

.....you have the most disgusting avatar I've ever seen.


It's easy to ignore though.

Nom I bought a Nissan because they make better cars. If GM started puting out quality new cars they wouldn;t have this problem. The dumb dumbs at GM spent way to much time puting out hummers and other big SUV's that nobody was buying.

Nom I bought a Nissan because they make better cars. If GM started puting out quality new cars they wouldn;t have this problem. The dumb dumbs at GM spent way to much time puting out hummers and other big SUV's that nobody was buying.

Nobody is buying them TODAY but at one time people DID buy them or they would not have built them.

Nom I bought a Nissan because they make better cars. If GM started puting out quality new cars they wouldn;t have this problem. The dumb dumbs at GM spent way to much time puting out hummers and other big SUV's that nobody was buying.

I bought a VW for my wife because they are way ahead of the chinese and japs on quality.

I bought a GMC truck, but Im thinking of upgrading to nissan or a toyota to pull the camper with, the quality and power of the jap cars just cant be beat.

Nobody is buying them TODAY but at one time people DID buy them or they would not have built them.

Exactly people were buying them at one time. But they did not pay close enough attention to the current trends. They kept pumping out these big gas guslers long after people stopped buying them.

Nissan and Toyota made big SUV's as well. They just cut production on the big vehicles much faster than GM or Ford did.

Nobody is buying them TODAY but at one time people DID buy them or they would not have built them.

...see, that's another catch 22; the one thing the US makers MADE money on is the SUV's and pickups! So, this global warming non sense and not controlling oil costs has come back to bite Democrat constituents in the behind. This, the blue collar workers, is a group ripe for the picking if the GOP would approach them from that standpoint; energy independence, cheap gas, build the cars and trucks people WANT to buy.

Exactly people were buying them at one time. But they did not pay close enough attention to the current trends. They kept pumping out these big gas guslers long after people stopped buying them.

Nissan and Toyota made big SUV's as well. They just cut production on the big vehicles much faster than GM or Ford did.

I don't know, there is an article posted somewhere about a bunch of imports sitting on storage lots in Long Beach California and New Jersey including SUV's. NOTHING is selling right now and 12 months ago no one knew this would be happening. Gas prices started down and truck sales actually rebounded for a bit.

So even Japanese and German imports are immune. Giant corporations cannot swerve on a dime.

I was listening to the news this morning and they were saying that if you look at all the airlines that have filed for bankruptcy, they have come back better than they were before.

We have given how much to bail out Wall Street and no one really has any type of accountability as to where that money has gone - if we do the same for the big 3, then someone would need to be able to account for how the money was used.

I say no. Let them do like the airlines did. Cut the fat and fix themselves. Who's gonna out any of us when we fall on hard times? Nobody. We just get up, wipe the dirt off, and keep trudging. :shrug: