All of the holidays that we know of celebrate something. Whether you are celebrating Ground Hog day or Fourth of July, they all have a meaning. Christmas is a christian holiday to celebrate the birth or Christ.

Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindu people do not celebrate Christmas. Why do non-believing Americans celebrate Christmas? Christians don't celebrate other religion's holidays.

What is it that Atheists celebrate at the end of December? It's certainly not Christmas.

With their friends Jim Beam and Johnny Walker :shrug:

All of the holidays that we know of celebrate something. Whether you are celebrating Ground Hog day or Fourth of July, they all have a meaning. Christmas is a christian holiday to celebrate the birth or Christ.

Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindu people do not celebrate Christmas. Why do non-believing Americans celebrate Christmas? Christians don't celebrate other religion's holidays.

What is it that Atheists celebrate at the end of December? It's certainly not Christmas.
I think its great.
maybe one day the true meaning will come to them.
I certainly wouldnt ask an atheist to leave the church if he came in.

What did Jesus say? something about being here for the sinner, not the rightous?

oh one other thing.
Christmas is kinda a stolen holiday.
before it was the celebration of Christs birth, it was a holiday that celebrated new life. The tree part is actually from a German pagan ritual, the lights represent the Ice on the limbs twinkling in the moon light.

The real birth of christ was much later in the year, not on the 25th of december at all, that day was chosen due to its placement in the Church calendar.

I think its great.
maybe one day the true meaning will come to them.
I certainly wouldnt ask an atheist to leave the church if he came in.

What did Jesus say? something about being here for the sinner, not the rightous?

I would agree that we shouldn't ask an atheist to leave the church if they walked in. It just seems like they get in the car because they are told to and put it in gear but have no clue where they are supposed to go.

THey don't end up at the church. They end up at the mall to worship the retailers.

The Real Story of Christmas - Saturnalia (http://www.history.com/minisite.do?content_type=Minisite_Generic&content_type_id=1253&display_order=1&sub_display_order=2&mini_id=1290)
In the early years of Christianity, Easter was the main holiday; the birth of Jesus was not celebrated. In the fourth century, church officials decided to institute the birth of Jesus as a holiday. Unfortunately, the Bible does not mention date for his birth (a fact Puritans later pointed out in order to deny the legitimacy of the celebration). Although some evidence suggests that his birth may have occurred in the spring (why would shepherds be herding in the middle of winter?), Pope Julius I chose December 25. It is commonly believed that the church chose this date in an effort to adopt and absorb the traditions of the pagan Saturnalia festival. First called the Feast of the Nativity, the custom spread to Egypt by 432 and to England by the end of the sixth century. By the end of the eighth century, the celebration of Christmas had spread all the way to Scandinavia. Today, in the Greek and Russian orthodox churches, Christmas is celebrated 13 days after the 25th, which is also referred to as the Epiphany or Three Kings Day. This is the day it is believed that the three wise men finally found Jesus in the manger.

"In the early years of Christianity, Easter was the main holiday; the birth of Jesus was not celebrated. In the fourth century, church officials decided to institute the birth of Jesus as a holiday. Unfortunately, the Bible does not mention date for his birth (a fact Puritans later pointed out in order to deny the legitimacy of the celebration). Although some evidence suggests that his birth may have occurred in the spring (why would shepherds be herding in the middle of winter?), Pope Julius I chose December 25. It is commonly believed that the church chose this date in an effort to adopt and absorb the traditions of the pagan Saturnalia festival. First called the Feast of the Nativity, the custom spread to Egypt by 432 and to England by the end of the sixth century. By the end of the eighth century, the celebration of Christmas had spread all the way to Scandinavia. Today, in the Greek and Russian orthodox churches, Christmas is celebrated 13 days after the 25th, which is also referred to as the Epiphany or Three Kings Day. This is the day it is believed that the three wise men finally found Jesus in the manger."

ayup

"In the early years of Christianity, Easter was the main holiday; the birth of Jesus was not celebrated. In the fourth century, church officials decided to institute the birth of Jesus as a holiday. Unfortunately, the Bible does not mention date for his birth (a fact Puritans later pointed out in order to deny the legitimacy of the celebration). Although some evidence suggests that his birth may have occurred in the spring (why would shepherds be herding in the middle of winter?), Pope Julius I chose December 25. It is commonly believed that the church chose this date in an effort to adopt and absorb the traditions of the pagan Saturnalia festival. First called the Feast of the Nativity, the custom spread to Egypt by 432 and to England by the end of the sixth century. By the end of the eighth century, the celebration of Christmas had spread all the way to Scandinavia. Today, in the Greek and Russian orthodox churches, Christmas is celebrated 13 days after the 25th, which is also referred to as the Epiphany or Three Kings Day. This is the day it is believed that the three wise men finally found Jesus in the manger."

ayup

I said it first...:razz:

I said it first...:razz:

oops, I should have attributed that to you lol

What is it that Atheists celebrate at the end of December? It's certainly not Christmas.

Several days off of work.

Several days off of work.

I'd celebrate that =)

oops, I should have attributed that to you lol
Actually it is from the History Channel

I think the question should be 'why do christians celebrate christmas' seeing as no one knows for certain when (if) christ was born

I'd celebrate that =)

I'm a Christian and have to work Christmas day. I can celebrate my God any day of the year. I don't need Christmas to do that. So for atheists to hijack the holiday with their drivel has no bearing on me whatsoever.

I'm a Christian and have to work Christmas day. I can celebrate my God any day of the year. I don't need Christmas to do that. So for atheists to hijack the holiday with their drivel has no bearing on me whatsoever.

what are you talking about?

The Real Story of Christmas - Saturnalia (http://www.history.com/minisite.do?content_type=Minisite_Generic&content_type_id=1253&display_order=1&sub_display_order=2&mini_id=1290)

Notice how this is not being responded to?

what are you talking about?

This is what I'm talking about.

Nonbelievers' sign at Capitol counters Nativity (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008458044_noreligion02m.html)

In the latest round of what's become almost a winter tradition — conflicts over religious symbols in public places — a group of atheists and agnostics have put up a sign in the state Capitol that says, in part: "Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

Freedom From Religion Foundation members put up the sign Monday, partly in response to a nearby Nativity scene. They also debuted a billboard in downtown Olympia that reads: "Reason's Greetings."

And this...

New York Christmas Boat Parade Changes Name, Loses Fans (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,456585,00.html)

Brookhaven-based fireworks company Fireworks by Grucci dropped its sponsorship after the Greater Patchogue Foundation removed "Christmas" from the parade's name. The change was made after some residents complained the name wasn't inclusive enough.

Inclusive enough for what? It's CHRISTMAS. A Christian holiday. Who else is supposed to be included in a CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY?

Now I don't care if atheists want to celebrate Christmas, but don't try to change it. It has now become routine for atheists to pop up every Christmas trying to remove the very name that defines the holiday. If atheists want their own holiday, lobby for one. If atheist want to try to do away with Christmas have at it. Until then, leave it alone.

THAT'S what I'm talking about.

I celebrate it for the time with family (especially those I don't see too often), the giving and receiving, the lights, Christmas trees, bows, wrapping paper, Santa, candycanes, eggnog....the list goes on! :thewave:

Now I don't care if atheists want to celebrate Christmas, but don't try to change it.

why not?

christians did.

that said, I really don't care how religions celebrate their holidays.

I like christmas no matter its origins .... it (generally) brings out the best in people.

why not?

christians did.

that said, I really don't care how religions celebrate their holidays.

I like christmas no matter its origins .... it (generally) brings out the best in people.

Christians changed Christmas? How? It is their holiday. Shouldn't they have a right to change it?

This is what I'm talking about.

Nonbelievers' sign at Capitol counters Nativity (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008458044_noreligion02m.html)



And this...

New York Christmas Boat Parade Changes Name, Loses Fans (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,456585,00.html)



Inclusive enough for what? It's CHRISTMAS. A Christian holiday. Who else is supposed to be included in a CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY?

Now I don't care if atheists want to celebrate Christmas, but don't try to change it. It has now become routine for atheists to pop up every Christmas trying to remove the very name that defines the holiday. If atheists want their own holiday, lobby for one. If atheist want to try to do away with Christmas have at it. Until then, leave it alone.

THAT'S what I'm talking about.

:nono:

It was a pagan tradition before it was a christian tradition, so let's not get into who's making changes.

Christians changed Christmas? How? It is their holiday. Shouldn't they have a right to change it?

did you read anything puggymom quoted?

Christians changed Christmas? How? It is their holiday. Shouldn't they have a right to change it?


No, it isn't. It's borrowed from the pagans.

even the gift giving was taken from the pagans.


The custom of gift-giving on Christmas goes back to Roman festivals of Saturnalia and Kalends. The very first gifts were simple items such as twigs from a sacred grove as good luck emblems. Soon that escalated to food, small items of jewelry, candles, and statues of gods. To the early Church, gift-giving at this time was a pagan holdover and therefore severely frowned upon. However, people would not part with it, and some justification was found in the original gift giving of the Magi, and from figures such as St. Nicholas. By the middle ages gift giving was accepted. Before then it was more common to exchange gifts on New Year's Day or Twelfth Night.


(I quote so you dont think I actually spelled that many words correctly all at once)

CHRISTMAS

CHRIST.

You people want so bad to make it something other than what it is.

No, it isn't. It's borrowed from the pagans.

IT'S CALLED CHRISTMAS.

THAT'S WHAT IT IS.

IF YOU WANT TO CHANGE IT, FORWARD A BILL TO CONGRESS!

BUT REMEMBER IT'S CALLED THIS ALL OVER THE WORLD. THAT'S WHAT IT IS.

CHRISTMAS

CHRIST.

You people want so bad to make it something other than what it is.
dont get me wrong, Im full on board with the Christ in Christmas, however, historically speaking, December 25th was originally a pagan holiday.

CHRISTMAS

CHRIST.

You people want so bad to make it something other than what it is.

You can call it whatever you like, but that doesn't change what it is, and where it originated.

IT'S CALLED CHRISTMAS.

THAT'S WHAT IT IS.

IF YOU WANT TO CHANGE IT, FORWARD A BILL TO CONGRESS!

BUT REMEMBER IT'S CALLED THIS ALL OVER THE WORLD. THAT'S WHAT IT IS.

:cds:

You can call it whatever you like, but that doesn't change what it is, and where it originated.
what it is to the Christians is the day to celebrate the birth of the promised son, our Saviour Jesus Christ.

dont get me wrong, Im full on board with the Christ in Christmas, however, historically speaking, December 25th was originally a pagan holiday.

I don't care what it was. This isn't rocket science here. But atheist and non-believers want to throw this crap in there to confuse people into believing Christmas is something other than what it IS NOW.

I don't care what it was. This isn't rocket science here. But atheist and non-believers want to throw this crap in there to confuse people into believing Christmas is something other than what it IS NOW.


boo effin hoo. Where was the outrage when it was stolen from the pagans?

boo effin hoo. Where was the outrage when it was stolen from the pagans?
pssst,,, I dont think he was around back then.

I don't care what it was. This isn't rocket science here. But atheist and non-believers want to throw this crap in there to confuse people into believing Christmas is something other than what it IS NOW.

Seriously, why does it bother you how people celebrate it?

what other people do under their tree,,,

oh wait a minute, thats not right.

You can call it whatever you like, but that doesn't change what it is, and where it originated.

I didn't call it that. It's been called CHRISTMAS for hundreds of years. YOU can call it whatever you want, but it doesn't change what it IS.

For the same reason we are trying to keep the traditional definition of marriage. Things are what they are. People want to strip spirituality from everything for their self-serving purposes, as if, by doing so, you can remove the belief system from our hearts.

Seriously, why does it bother you how people celebrate it?

Pay attention. Read back on my other posts. I don't care how people celebrate it. But stop trying to strip the name and meaning from what it is. It seems there are a lot of atheists out there that have a problem with how Christians celebrate Christmas and they aim to change that by trying to remove the very name of the holiday from being mentioned in the public. THAT is the outrage I am expressing.

I'll celebrate any holiday if I feel like it!

Ramadan....I pig out and Drink...Hanukkah...I'll eat bacon, pork chops, ware a funny hat (and Drink)...Christmas (Drink EGG NOG!!) and watch kids go spastic... Kwanzaa....I'll Drink a 40 and ware a funny hat...

I didn't call it that. It's been called CHRISTMAS for hundreds of years. YOU can call it whatever you want, but it doesn't change what it IS.

For the same reason we are trying to keep the traditional definition of marriage. Things are what they are. People want to strip spirituality from everything for their self-serving purposes, as if, by doing so, you can remove the belief system from our hearts.
I look at the trend of trying to remove the word of God from our hearts as a warning, or a message from God that we are failing to serve him and introduce his word to people.

This trend is a much the fault of Christians as it is the fault of those doing it.

I didn't call it that. It's been called CHRISTMAS for hundreds of years. YOU can call it whatever you want, but it doesn't change what it IS.

For the same reason we are trying to keep the traditional definition of marriage. Things are what they are. People want to strip spirituality from everything for their self-serving purposes, as if, by doing so, you can remove the belief system from our hearts.


Fact: christians adopted a pagan tradition and called it christmas. That still doesn't change what it is. It's a pagan holiday. Christ was not born in Dec. More likely Sept.

Do your homework...I did mine.

Pay attention. Read back on my other posts. I don't care how people celebrate it. But stop trying to strip the name and meaning from what it is. It seems there are a lot of atheists out there that have a problem with how Christians celebrate Christmas and they aim to change that by trying to remove the very name of the holiday from being mentioned in the public. THAT is the outrage I am expressing.

So if Christmas parades are renamed Holiday parades, does that prevent you from celebrating?

You Christians are awfully selfish. I don't see Jewish people freaking out. Why isn't school closed for Jewish holidays?

Pay attention. Read back on my other posts. I don't care how people celebrate it. But stop trying to strip the name and meaning from what it is. It seems there are a lot of atheists out there that have a problem with how Christians celebrate Christmas and they aim to change that by trying to remove the very name of the holiday from being mentioned in the public. THAT is the outrage I am expressing.

Kinda like the christians having a problem with pagan celebrations?

Oh, the outrage! :drama:

So if Christmas parades are renamed Holiday parades, does that prevent you from celebrating?

You Christians are awfully selfish. I don't see Jewish people freaking out. Why isn't school closed for Jewish holidays?

Really! :rolleyes:

So if Christmas parades are renamed Holiday parades, does that prevent you from celebrating?

You Christians are awfully selfish. I don't see Jewish people freaking out. Why isn't school closed for Jewish holidays?
actually, the jewish people started the trend of taking christian icons out of public places, and at least in AA county, the schools do close for a couple jewish holidays also. But why shouldnt they close for them?

I look at the trend of trying to remove the word of God from our hearts as a warning, or a message from God that we are failing to serve him and introduce his word to people.

This trend is a much the fault of Christians as it is the fault of those doing it.

The Bible has said as much. That changes nothing in the core of what it means for the remainder of us that keep things these near to our hearts.

Kinda like the christians having a problem with pagan celebrations?

Oh, the outrage! :drama:

And those are?

And those are?

Well, let's start with christmas. :dur:

The Bible has said as much. That changes nothing in the core of what it means for the remainder of us that keep things these near to our hearts.

Have you seen How the Grinch Stole Christmas? Maybe you need to watch it. It pretty much says that no matter what, you should be able to celebrate Christmas. Even with nothing, you should still be able to celebrate. That means even if NOBODY celebrated, if lights and trees and parades were outlawed, YOU should still be able to celebrate it. If you can't, that's your problem.

I know a ####load of Jews that celebrate CHRISTmas :shrug: Who gives a ####, lols.

So if Christmas parades are renamed Holiday parades, does that prevent you from celebrating?

You Christians are awfully selfish. I don't see Jewish people freaking out. Why isn't school closed for Jewish holidays?

Why would it be necessary to change the name of a parade that aims to celebrate Christmas? That's like me coming along telling you you can no longer be called by your name. How much sense does that make?

Why is it selfish to want to call something that it is?

Well, let's start with christmas. :dur:

Christians have a problem celebrating Christmas?

Okay... now the discussion has turned to the moronic.

I know a ####load of Jews that celebrate CHRISTmas :shrug: Who gives a ####, lols.

Really? I know one jew. He doesn't celebrate christmas. I knew a jewish family in Iceland...they didn't celebrate xmas, either. They did exchange gifts, though. :confused: Is a gift exchange part of hanakuh?

this is turning into the best thread lol

Have you seen How the Grinch Stole Christmas? Maybe you need to watch it. It pretty much says that no matter what, you should be able to celebrate Christmas. Even with nothing, you should still be able to celebrate. That means even if NOBODY celebrated, if lights and trees and parades were outlawed, YOU should still be able to celebrate it. If you can't, that's your problem.

You're not paying attention. :smack:

I don't care if you want to celebrate it? I want everyone to celebrate it. You can celebrate my birthday for all I care, just don't call it Larry's birthday when it isn't.

Why would it be necessary to change the name of a parade that aims to celebrate Christmas? That's like me coming along telling you you can no longer be called by your name. How much sense does that make?

Why is it selfish to want to call something that it is?

Well, perhaps people wanted to have a parade that celebrated ALL of the holidays. :gasp:

just don't call it Larry's birthday when it isn't.

umm that's exactly what christians are doing ....

Christians have a problem celebrating Christmas?

Okay... now the discussion has turned to the moronic.
I couldn't agree more. Christians borrowed from pagan tradition and called it christmas, because the pagan tradition wasn't alligned with church belief.

You really don't know what we're talking about here, so come back after you've done your research.

You're not paying attention. :smack:

I don't care if you want to celebrate it? I want everyone to celebrate it. You can celebrate my birthday for all I care, just don't call it Larry's birthday when it isn't.

Yes I am. I'm saying it shouldn't matter to you what the holiday is called. You can celebrate Christmas on July 1st if you want. You're getting upset over petty stuff like the name of the day.

why not?

christians did.

that said, I really don't care how religions celebrate their holidays.

I like christmas no matter its origins .... it (generally) brings out the best in people.

What if they kill more Indians and take their land?

What if they kill more Indians and take their land?

I don't think there are many left.

Either way, I hardly think it's in keeping with the holiday spirit.

Yes I am. I'm saying it shouldn't matter to you what the holiday is called. You can celebrate Christmas on July 1st if you want. You're getting upset over petty stuff like the name of the day.
its not petty.
its what the day has been for hundreds of years, the desire to change it to holiday from Christmas is an attempt at taking the christian aspect out of it.
If the name was the only thing in question, one could say that the atheists are being petty over the name.

on brick at a time and eventually the wall falls.

What if they kill more Indians and take their land?

:killingme:buddies:

its not petty.
its what the day has been for hundreds of years, the desire to change it to holiday from Christmas is an attempt at taking the christian aspect out of it.
If the name was the only thing in question, one could say that the atheists are being petty over the name.

on brick at a time and eventually the wall falls.

:rolleyes: Yeah, that's what it is. Petty. Soo petty that christians have been calling the holiday christmas for a few hundred years. :lmao:

Well, perhaps people wanted to have a parade that celebrated ALL of the holidays. :gasp:

And what ALL holidays would these be?

its not petty.
its what the day has been for hundreds of years, the desire to change it to holiday from Christmas is an attempt at taking the christian aspect out of it.
If the name was the only thing in question, one could say that the atheists are being petty over the name.

on brick at a time and eventually the wall falls.

I personally don't care what it's called. I still celebrate it. I think it's petty to worry about the name. :shrug:

And what ALL holidays would these be?

Well, Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Petezaa....

Really? I know one jew. He doesn't celebrate christmas. I knew a jewish family in Iceland...they didn't celebrate xmas, either. They did exchange gifts, though. :confused: Is a gift exchange part of hanakuh?
My Jews put up trees and everything. They think Hanukkah is gay, lols.

Of course by ####load I mean one family because frankly I don't have that many friends.

Well, Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Petezaa....
oh come on now.
you know Kwanzaa is made up, not at all in the class with the others.

I know you hard core christians don't care, but here's a link you can start with. You would then need to verify the information by doing your own research, but I find it very unlikely you'll step out of your bubble to do it.

The Shocking Pagan Origin of CHRISTMAS! (http://www.hope-of-israel.org/cmas1.htm)

oh come on now.
you know Kwanzaa is made up, not at all in the class with the others.

Ok, well, Hannukah and Petezaa and Christmas. Oh, and Festivus.

Ok, well, Hannukah and Petezaa and Christmas. Oh, and Festivus.
I forgot about Festivus too, its only natural, Seinfeld has been off air for a while now.

I know you hard core christians don't care, but here's a link you can start with. You would then need to verify the information by doing your own research, but I find it very unlikely you'll step out of your bubble to do it.

The Shocking Pagan Origin of CHRISTMAS! (http://www.hope-of-israel.org/cmas1.htm)
its already been mentioned

Ok, well, Hannukah and Petezaa and Christmas. Oh, and Festivus.

Festivus is a sham :nono:

Festivus is a sham :nono:
but it was mentioned on tv, it has to be real

its already been mentioned


...and promptly brushed aside.

Ok, well, Hannukah and Petezaa and Christmas. Oh, and Festivus.

...

Festivus is a sham :nono:

No it's not. It even has a pole. AND, it came before Petezaa.

...and promptly brushed aside.
not brushed aside, but put in its historical place.

No it's not. It even has a pole. AND, it came before Petezaa.
coming first does not always make it more correct.
come on, you claim science as your faith, you should know this

not brushed aside, but put in its historical place.

Hey, it's your fantasy! Have it your way!

Hey, it's your fantasy! Have it your way!
my way is for it to be called Christmas and to be a day set aside to praise the birth of Christ.
thanks for understanding.

coming first does not always make it more correct.


You're right. As a man you should know this.

my way is for it to be called Christmas and to be a day set aside to praise the birth of Christ.
thanks for understanding.

You're way is wrong. As a christian. you should be ashamed of the tradition. It is after all, pagan.

I understand. You do not.

Have you seen How the Grinch Stole Christmas? Maybe you need to watch it. It pretty much says that no matter what, you should be able to celebrate Christmas. Even with nothing, you should still be able to celebrate. That means even if NOBODY celebrated, if lights and trees and parades were outlawed, YOU should still be able to celebrate it. If you can't, that's your problem.
The Gospel according to Dr Suess?
My Bible is missing that one.

You're right. As a man you should know this.
hey, like I always say (though it has nothing to do with Christmas)
I got mine, you get yours.

The Gospel according to Dr Suess?
My Bible is missing that one.

It's a story. Just like the bible. :smile:

why not?

christians did.

that said, I really don't care how religions celebrate their holidays.

I like christmas no matter its origins .... it (generally) brings out the best in people.

HAVE YOU BEEN TO THE MALL LATELY AND SEEN HOW THEY FIGHT OVER PARKING SPACES? HOW ABOUT THE DEATH AT WAL-MART? The best of people. I don't think so.

umm that's exactly what christians are doing ....

Then, as I have said already, lobby to have the name changed. Regardless of the pagan history of gift giving, trees and lights and such Christians adopted these traditions with their celebration of the Birth of Christ. THAT is central to the holiday and not all other crap that you are trying to make Christmas all about. When Christians celebrate this holiday we see the birth of our savior. Yes, we put trees and lights up and give gifts but the centerpiece of the celebration if Christ's birth. THAT is what is celebrated around the world TODAY. This is the day Christians set aside for Christ's birth. This is the day that this country decided they wanted to make a federal holiday in recognition of. CHRISTMAS! Not some other holiday that you want to create. You want to create another holiday have at it.

Ya'll have fun. I'm goin' to watch Prophecies of Iraq. I'm all about learning old idea's.

Then, as I have said already, lobby to have the name changed.

It doesn't bother us enough to try to have it changed. We know what it is, even if you don't.

I couldn't agree more. Christians borrowed from pagan tradition and called it christmas, because the pagan tradition wasn't alligned with church belief.

You really don't know what we're talking about here, so come back after you've done your research.

Okay, so what? It is still what it is. CHRISTMAS. Has been for hundreds of years. And don't be simplistic by trying to tell everyone I don't know what I'm talking about. I understand what it was, and I understand what it is. It's you that doesn't want to recognize what it is.

Yes I am. I'm saying it shouldn't matter to you what the holiday is called. You can celebrate Christmas on July 1st if you want. You're getting upset over petty stuff like the name of the day.

Then, using that same argument it shouldn't matter to you what it's called. So what the heck are you arguing about?

And this is a much larger argument than just Christmas. If yo had read back like I asked you'd know I try to make the point that there is a concerted effort by atheist to remove any mention of God from the public voice. This Christmas argument is just a small part of it. So take that in its complete context and you will understand why I am upset.

It's a larger Constitutional argument. You should at least understand that smallest bit of reality.

its not petty.
its what the day has been for hundreds of years, the desire to change it to holiday from Christmas is an attempt at taking the christian aspect out of it.
If the name was the only thing in question, one could say that the atheists are being petty over the name.

on brick at a time and eventually the wall falls.

:yeahthat:

Well, Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Petezaa....

Who's stopping them from having their own parades?

You're way is wrong. As a christian. you should be ashamed of the tradition. It is after all, pagan.

I understand. You do not.

There's nothing pagan about the Birth of Christ.

It's a story. Just like the bible. :smile:

You see. This is really what the argument is about. Because you don't believe, you find it impossible that anyone else could so therefore we are invalidated by your sanctimonious dismissal of anyone else’s choices. This is the type of arrogance that Christians realize the battle is all about.

You see. This is really what the argument is about. Because you don't believe, you find it impossible that anyone else could so therefore we are invalidated by your sanctimonious dismissal of anyone else’s choices.


Sounds vaguely familiar. I wonder why that is.

It doesn't bother us enough to try to have it changed. We know what it is, even if you don't.

Well, then I would expect you would celebrate it accordingly as I will. What it is to you is not what it is to me and the vast majority of Americans. There seems to be an aweful lot of us that don't know what it is I guess... :rolleyes:

Sounds vaguely familiar. I wonder why that is.

There is nothing sanctimonious about calling something by the name it holds. But there is much arrogance in demanding it be changed simply because it doesn't hold some inclusiveness as defined by a select few.

There is nothing sanctimonious about calling something by the name it holds. But there is much arrogance in demanding it be changed simply because it doesn't hold some inclusiveness as defined by a select few.
Nothing sanctimonious? Then why did the christians change it to christmas?

I never demanded, or requested, or even suggested, that anything be changed. You're the one with your panties in a bunch making all kinds of wild accusations. Good christian that you are.

Nothing sanctimonious? Then why did the christians change it to christmas?

I never demanded, or requested, or even suggested, that anything be changed. You're the one with your panties in a bunch making all kinds of wild accusations. Good christian that you are.

For the same reason why the founders decided to call this land we live on America. I'm quite certain it was called something else before the settlers got here. For the same reason The Air Force was once called the Army Air Corp. Geez...

It got called Christmas because that's what Christians wanted to call it. It has kept the name for hundreds of years. Do we want to go back and rename this country because it might offend the natives or other immigrants that come here? The world celebrates a holiday called Christmas; the central figure being Jesus Christ. Christians adopted a lot of the pagan traditions of gift giving primarily because of the gifts that were given to Jesus from the 3 wise men at his birth; AND because Christ gave the biggest gift to EVERYONE........... Salvation! THAT is what WE (Christians) celebrate. This country adopted this faith-based concept as a federal holiday. THAT is what it is called. Changing the name is a smaller effort in a larger battle by atheists to change the faith-based landscape of this country; to destroy the central foundings of this country. So all this arguing about changing the name serves a larger purpose for me than just Christmas. On December 25th we celebrate Christmas. THAT is what it is called.

.

For the same reason why the founders decided to call this land we live on America. I'm quite certain it was called something else before the settlers got here. For the same reason The Air Force was once called the Army Air Corp. Geez...

It got called Christmas because that's what Christians wanted to call it. It has kept the name for hundreds of years. Do we want to go back and rename this country because it might offend the natives or other immigrants that come here? The world celebrates a holiday called Christmas; the central figure being Jesus Christ. Christians adopted a lot of the pagan traditions of gift giving primarily because of the gifts that were given to Jesus from the 3 wise men at his birth; AND because Christ gave the biggest gift to EVERYONE........... Salvation! THAT is what WE (Christians) celebrate. This adopted this faith-based concept as a federal holiday. THAT is what it is called. Changing the name is a smaller effort in a larger battle by atheists to change the faith-based landscape of this country; to destroy the central foundings of this country. So all this arguing about changing the name serves a larger purpose for me than just Christmas. On December 25th we celebrate Christmas. THAT is what it is called.

.

You really don't get it. No one has asked anyone to change anything.

Why do you keep harping on that? Why do you expect everyone to think like you?

You really don't get it. No one has asked anyone to change anything.

Why do you keep harping on that? Why do you expect everyone to think like you?

You don't even know how this all got started do you?

Just like the pagan gods were cast aside, so now your god is cast aside. It gives me insight into how the pagans might have felt.

You don't even know how this all got started do you?

You wanted to know why non christians celebrate christmas. My answer was "it's fun". :shrug:

HAVE YOU BEEN TO THE MALL LATELY AND SEEN HOW THEY FIGHT OVER PARKING SPACES? HOW ABOUT THE DEATH AT WAL-MART? The best of people. I don't think so.

nope

I order on-line =)

Then, as I have said already, lobby to have the name changed. Regardless of the pagan history of gift giving, trees and lights and such Christians adopted these traditions with their celebration of the Birth of Christ. THAT is central to the holiday and not all other crap that you are trying to make Christmas all about. When Christians celebrate this holiday we see the birth of our savior. Yes, we put trees and lights up and give gifts but the centerpiece of the celebration if Christ's birth. THAT is what is celebrated around the world TODAY. This is the day Christians set aside for Christ's birth. This is the day that this country decided they wanted to make a federal holiday in recognition of. CHRISTMAS! Not some other holiday that you want to create. You want to create another holiday have at it.

the point is that there was already a holiday created .... christians just adopted it a changed it around a little.

the point is that there was already a holiday created .... christians just adopted it a changed it around a little.


But that was the wrong holiday, 'til the christians fixed it all up the way they wanted it.

So, is this an argument about Christianity or an argument about the origins of Christmas?

Let's get back to the original question. I'm an athiest. I celebrate Christmas. By 'celebrate' I mean I put up a Christmas tree, give gifts, get gifts, spend time with family, go to parties, make and eat good food, donate to charity. These are all things that one can enjoy without believing in Christ. These are good things that I wish we could do all year round, but unfortunately reality keeps us from behaving that way on a normal basis.

Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims would see Christmas as worshipping a god contrary to what they believe in, and so they won't celebrate Christmas, or they may not have a cultural tradition of it. I do, and since I don't believe in God, there is no contridiction. I enjoy the traditions. I do not go to mass or church. That would be a contriction.

Observe Japan, an overwhelmingly Buddhist/Shinto county. Japanese are not very uptight about strictly following any religion, but the do love tradition. You see many American-style Christmas traditions being adopted there.

the point is that there was already a holiday created .... christians just adopted it a changed it around a little.

Okay... so what?

So, is this an argument about Christianity or an argument about the origins of Christmas?

Let's get back to the original question. I'm an athiest. I celebrate Christmas. By 'celebrate' I mean I put up a Christmas tree, give gifts, get gifts, spend time with family, go to parties, make and eat good food, donate to charity. These are all things that one can enjoy without believing in Christ. These are good things that I wish we could do all year round, but unfortunately reality keeps us from behaving that way on a normal basis.

Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims would see Christmas as worshipping a god contrary to what they believe in, and so they won't celebrate Christmas, or they may not have a cultural tradition of it. I do, and since I don't believe in God, there is no contridiction. I enjoy the traditions. I do not go to mass or church. That would be a contriction.

Observe Japan, an overwhelmingly Buddhist/Shinto county. Japanese are not very uptight about strictly following any religion, but the do love tradition. You see many American-style Christmas traditions being adopted there.

Christians are incapable on understanding tradition. There must be a god in the equation.

You wanted to know why non christians celebrate christmas. My answer was "it's fun". :shrug:

I didn't want to know that. I started it with Xaquin when I posted this:

I'm a Christian and have to work Christmas day. I can celebrate my God any day of the year. I don't need Christmas to do that. So for atheists to hijack the holiday with their drivel has no bearing on me whatsoever.
Then he wrote this:

what are you talking about?

Then I replied with this:

This is what I'm talking about.

Nonbelievers' sign at Capitol counters Nativity (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008458044_noreligion02m.html)

In the latest round of what's become almost a winter tradition — conflicts over religious symbols in public places — a group of atheists and agnostics have put up a sign in the state Capitol that says, in part: "Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

Freedom From Religion Foundation members put up the sign Monday, partly in response to a nearby Nativity scene. They also debuted a billboard in downtown Olympia that reads: "Reason's Greetings."

And this...

New York Christmas Boat Parade Changes Name, Loses Fans (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,456585,00.html)

Brookhaven-based fireworks company Fireworks by Grucci dropped its sponsorship after the Greater Patchogue Foundation removed "Christmas" from the parade's name. The change was made after some residents complained the name wasn't inclusive enough.

Inclusive enough for what? It's CHRISTMAS. A Christian holiday. Who else is supposed to be included in a CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY?

Now I don't care if atheists want to celebrate Christmas, but don't try to change it. It has now become routine for atheists to pop up every Christmas trying to remove the very name that defines the holiday. If atheists want their own holiday, lobby for one. If atheist want to try to do away with Christmas have at it. Until then, leave it alone.

THAT'S what I'm talking about.

Then everything went nuts. :biggrin:

So I :elaine: some.

I'm done here. I have to go. It's been fun.

MERRY CHRISTMAS. :buddies:

And God Bless You!

Okay... so what?

you were complaining about atheists "hijacking" the holiday, when that's exactly what christians did in the first place.

I was just pointing that out.

you were complaining about atheists "hijacking" the holiday, when that's exactly what christians did in the first place.

I was just pointing that out.


Thank you. I obviously couldn't have said it better.

I'm out...time for bed.

Thank you. I obviously couldn't have said it better.

I'm out...time for bed.

sorry, hehe

I know you were saying that too

I was just agreeing =)

Late in the game......but, the answer is GREED!

Late in the game......but, the answer is GREED!

:lol:

Apparently Atheists do it because it's a cultural tradition. Nevermind that that cultural tradition comes from the very Christianity that they reject. :rolleyes:

It doesn't bother us enough to try to have it changed. We know what it is, even if you don't.

Apparently it does bother you or you wouldn't be whinin' about it. :duh:

You do have a point however. There are various pagan celebrations that were "baptized" by Christianity. All Souls and All Saints day are other examples aside from Christmas. It's a date on the calendar and it's meaning is the same as well as the added meanings of the pagan tradition. The remembrance of Christ our light Who came into the world at the same time the days begin to grow longer is very apt if you ask me. Jesus didn't have to be born on that day for us to celebrate it at that time.

The large majority of "Christmas traditions" are indeed pagan ones. Honestly, as a Christian it doesn't bother me one whit. If it's not antithetical to the basic tenants of Christianity then it's harmless. Christianity is full of "paganism" (whether Protestants want to admit it or not); it's a melding of Judaism and so-called paganism.

I think the point of the OP was, why would someone like you mAlice celebrate Christmas in your home (hey, maybe you don't I don't know)? If you do, I'm sure it doesn't center around Christ so why don't you just call it Sol Invicta(Ancient Roman) or Lenaea (Ancient Greek) or Bodhi Day (Buddhism) or Yule (Celtic Druids and Neopagans) or Inti Raymi (Ancient Incas) or Shabe-Yalda (Zoroastrainism) or Soyal (Hopi Indians) or The Long Night (Vampyres) or simply Winter Solstice?

Btw, did all of these peeps steal from each other like you accuse Christianity of doing? :lol:

:lol:

Apparently Atheists do it because it's a cultural tradition. Nevermind that that cultural tradition comes from the very Christianity that they reject. :rolleyes:



Apparently it does bother you or you wouldn't be whinin' about it. :duh:

You do have a point however. There are various pagan celebrations that were "baptized" by Christianity. All Souls and All Saints day are other examples aside from Christmas. It's a date on the calendar and it's meaning is the same as well as the added meanings of the pagan tradition. The remembrance of Christ our light Who came into the world at the same time the days begin to grow longer is very apt if you ask me. Jesus didn't have to be born on that day for us to celebrate it at that time.

The large majority of "Christmas traditions" are indeed pagan ones. Honestly, as a Christian it doesn't bother me one whit. If it's not antithetical to the basic tenants of Christianity then it's harmless. Christianity is full of "paganism" (whether Protestants want to admit it or not); it's a melding of Judaism and so-called paganism.

I think the point of the OP was, why would someone like you mAlice celebrate Christmas in your home (hey, maybe you don't I don't know)? If you do, I'm sure it doesn't center around Christ so why don't you just call it Sol Invicta(Ancient Roman) or Lenaea (Ancient Greek) or Bodhi Day (Buddhism) or Yule (Celtic Druids and Neopagans) or Inti Raymi (Ancient Incas) or Shabe-Yalda (Zoroastrainism) or Soyal (Hopi Indians) or The Long Night (Vampyres) or simply Winter Solstice?

Btw, did all of these peeps steal from each other like you accuse Christianity of doing? :lol:

Hahahaha! She has a point. She posts her Christmas tree every year! :killingme:love:

Christians adapted the tradition of the pagan holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. We also live here and enjoy the land that we stole from the Indians, we murdered (and the surviving gave slivers of land to). So that we could live in a "free world". Humans do not always to the appropriate things as we have seen in our history and present.

This country was founded in the name of God, only because God allowed. Now we want to remove God from everything and expect no consequence.

Now December 25th is the day that Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, for years there have been the same traditions. I as a Christian do not believe in the way Christmas is celebrated (even though I do celebrate the traditional way). The reason we should be celebrating Christmas is for the birth of Christ and what that represents to us. The birth of Christ was the beginning, to show human beings how we should be living our lives, how we should handle situations, how we should treat other people, etc.

Easter is the celebration of the death of Christ and what that represents to us. It represents the gift that God has giving us for everlasting life. He gave up his only begotten Son to die a horrible death on the Cross for our sins. For that death and the belief in the death and the fact that Jesus rose from the dead is what offers us Salvation.

If this country rejects God, as it is doing, then we as a country are going to be taught a lesson. People are trying to remove God from every aspect of this nation (even though the nation was founded on God). The bible does not condone sex before marriage, but yet we allow it, we allow gift certificates for the morning after pill. What are we telling young America? The bible states a man should not lay with another man the way he lays with a women, and our law states that marriage is defined as a union between a man and a women, but yet we want to change both. (just some examples)

Now you can agree with me or not, thats fine. But just because you do not believe in GOD and the traditions that this country was founded, does not mean that they have to change.

Christians adapted the tradition of the pagan holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. We also live here and enjoy the land that we stole from the Indians, we murdered (and the surviving gave slivers of land to). So that we could live in a "free world". Humans do not always to the appropriate things as we have seen in our history and present.

This country was founded in the name of God, only because God allowed. Now we want to remove God from everything and expect no consequence.

Now December 25th is the day that Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, for years there have been the same traditions. I as a Christian do not believe in the way Christmas is celebrated (even though I do celebrate the traditional way). The reason we should be celebrating Christmas is for the birth of Christ and what that represents to us. The birth of Christ was the beginning, to show human beings how we should be living our lives, how we should handle situations, how we should treat other people, etc.

Easter is the celebration of the death of Christ and what that represents to us. It represents the gift that God has giving us for everlasting life. He gave up his only begotten Son to die a horrible death on the Cross for our sins. For that death and the belief in the death and the fact that Jesus rose from the dead is what offers us Salvation.

If this country rejects God, as it is doing, then we as a country are going to be taught a lesson. People are trying to remove God from every aspect of this nation (even though the nation was founded on God). The bible does not condone sex before marriage, but yet we allow it, we allow gift certificates for the morning after pill. What are we telling young America? The bible states a man should not lay with another man the way he lays with a women, and our law states that marriage is defined as a union between a man and a women, but yet we want to change both. (just some examples)

Now you can agree with me or not, thats fine. But just because you do not believe in GOD and the traditions that this country was founded, does not mean that they have to change.

:killingme

What is it that Atheists celebrate at the end of December? It's certainly not Christmas.

I celebrate Christmas as a family holiday, not the birth of Christ. It's a winter solstice celebration anyway, and I'll celebrate it if I want to and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

:razz:

I celebrate Christmas as a family holiday, not the birth of Christ. It's a winter solstice celebration anyway, and I'll celebrate it if I want to and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

:razz:
So, you say "Merry Winter Solstice"? You have a solstice tree, and buy solstice presents?




There's a lot of history to suggest that the holiday's date was picked to coincide with other celebrations, but that doesn't stop the meaning of the Christmas holiday as being a ceremonial celebration of the birth of Christ. Since we didn't know the date, we chose one to make others happy and help entice others to look at the religion and learn and become saved. The trappings of the holiday are even borrowed from others to help them feel more comfortable with learning the Truth. So, the tree has nothing to do with Christmas, nor does the date denote the proven birthdate of Christ, but Christian's celebration is of his birth - the holiday is because of Christ's birth.

I think the OP was in regards to actually celebrating the birth of a saviour that atheists do not believe is a saviour, not asking why you take days off of work, get together with family, etc.

Personally, I think atheists shouldn't get the day off (and Jews should get alternate days off to account for their religious days, etc.). After all, atheists have nothing to celebrate, so......

So, you say "Merry Winter Solstice"? You have a solstice tree, and buy solstice presents?




There's a lot of history to suggest that the holiday's date was picked to coincide with other celebrations, but that doesn't stop the meaning of the Christmas holiday as being a ceremonial celebration of the birth of Christ. Since we didn't know the date, we chose one to make others happy and help entice others to look at the religion and learn and become saved. The trappings of the holiday are even borrowed from others to help them feel more comfortable with learning the Truth. So, the tree has nothing to do with Christmas, nor does the date denote the proven birthdate of Christ, but Christian's celebration is of his birth - the holiday is because of Christ's birth.

I think the OP was in regards to actually celebrating the birth of a saviour that atheists do not believe is a saviour, not asking why you take days off of work, get together with family, etc.

Personally, I think atheists shouldn't get the day off (and Jews should get alternate days off to account for their religious days, etc.). After all, atheists have nothing to celebrate, so......
I call it Christmas because that's what my family called it before I was around. I might not be a christian, but it doesn't hurt to spread a little cheer anyways.

I celebrate Christmas as a family holiday, not the birth of Christ. It's a winter solstice celebration anyway, and I'll celebrate it if I want to and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

:razz:

I'm certainly not trying to stop you. I was just curious what you are celebrating. The history as to why CHRISTMAS is celebrated when it is, is irrelevant. It is still a celebration of the birth of CHRIST. Somewhere in the word CHRISTmas, this should be obvious.

I guess we chould change it to SOLSTICEmas. This just shows how much our world is changing. Christmas and Easter were not made up a long time ago to give everyone a few days of work to spend time with their families. They were put on the calender to celebrate the birth and death of Christ. I guess this was back in a time when our country was more Christian and not full of a bunch of liberal free thinkers as it is today.

complete with angels and crosses. :neener:

So, is it me, or do the christians have a bigger problem with this than the athiests do? :roflmao: I don't see what the big deal is. People want to change the name, they flip out. People don't want to change the name, they still flip out. Go figure.

I call it Christmas because that's what my family called it before I was around. I might not be a christian, but it doesn't hurt to spread a little cheer anyways.
you might be more christian than alot of the christians I know from my church.
evildoers the bunch of them I tell you.

got this one old biddy that runs around screaming at the children if they make noise, or do anything unchurchly while in the church.
God help the little tyke that gets caught with is finger up his nose or holding his winky while he runs to the bathroom.

Ive never actually seen her arrive at the church, I suspect she parks in the broom closet.

So, is it me, or do the christians have a bigger problem with this than the athiests do? :roflmao: I don't see what the big deal is. People want to change the name, they flip out. People don't want to change the name, they still flip out. Go figure.

It's you.

So, is it me, or do the christians have a bigger problem with this than the athiests do? :roflmao: I don't see what the big deal is. People want to change the name, they flip out. People don't want to change the name, they still flip out. Go figure.We don't care (as a matter of fact, we'd probably prefer) if you change the name of what you celebrate to whatever it is you're celebrating (Merry Worm-food Day!). We want to know why you'd celebrate Christmas without celebrating Christ. We also don't want you to minimize and devalue our celebration by mocking it in this manner.

complete with angels and crosses. :neener:

:killingme

At least your not hypocritical about it......





Oh, wait.........

So, is it me, or do the christians have a bigger problem with this than the athiests do? :roflmao: I don't see what the big deal is. People want to change the name, they flip out. People don't want to change the name, they still flip out. Go figure.
as time goes on, and more and more of religion is pushed out of view, you might just see christians getting more and more testy about the little things.

the ultimate goal is to create a society where the religious people are destined to hide in the basements of unmarked buildings way out on the edge of town to worship their God.

keep pushing and sooner or later someone is going to push back. its only natural.

:killingme

At least your not hypocritical about it......





Oh, wait.........


How does that make me a hypocrit?

the ultimate goal is to create a society where the religious people are destined to hide in the basements of unmarked buildings way out on the edge of town to worship their God.




Kinda' like when the christians ran the pagans outta' town, huh?

This is exactly why I will never be a religious person. There is so much hypocrisy.

We don't care (as a matter of fact, we'd probably prefer) if you change the name of what you celebrate to whatever it is you're celebrating (Merry Worm-food Day!). We want to know why you'd celebrate Christmas without celebrating Christ. We also don't want you to minimize and devalue our celebration by mocking it in this manner.

I agree with you. I have yet to see any good arguement as to why atheists celebrate CHRISTmas. If they are really into the Pagan thing, I guess they should celebrate it as the Winter Solsctice on December 21st. They again, there are other pagan holidays that I'm sure most of these people have never heard of. How many also celebrate SAMHAIN, IMBALC, BELTANE, LAMMAS and the other Pagan holidays? If you want to call Christmas a pagan holiday, then celebrate it and all the pagan holidays if that's what you are into.

There's a reason a lot of atheists CELEBRATE CHRISTmas. I'm sure it's something their families have done for generations. The only difference is that their grandparents likely celebrated it as a celebration of the birth of Jesus and somewhere along the way the beliefs didn't carry on and the new generation has lost any belief they may have had.

Merry Christmas everyone

This is exactly why I will never be a religious person. There is so much hypocrisy.
hypocrisy on both sides. You just have to decide which form of hypocrisy best fits your lifestyle.

you want to see hypocrits? go to a church on sunday morning and watch the way people act in church, when you KNOW they are playing on their wifes during the week.

or, like the church I walked out of.
they voted the organist out of the congragation because, "he didnt have a strong enough faith in Christ"
excuse me, if the man had an open mind to it, and he was seriously seeking, wouldnt the church be the best place for him to be????

now that was an entire church full of hypocrits.
was also the last time I have stepped foot in that church.

I agree with you. I have yet to see any good arguement as to why atheists celebrate CHRISTmas.


Because we celebrate it for different reasons. So it has christ in the name. BFD. :shrug:

Because we celebrate it for different reasons. So it has christ in the name. BFD. :shrug:

I just don't get what's so hard to understand about tradition.

Because we celebrate it for different reasons. So it has christ in the name. BFD. :shrug:
:killingme

Because we celebrate it for different reasons. So it has christ in the name. BFD. :shrug:


Again, WHAT are you celebrating?

Also, it is a BFD that Christ is in the name. DUh! It wasn't just a coincidence.

Never mind. I'd be better off trying to talk to a tree stump.

I'd be better off trying to talk to a tree stump.

I feel your pain. Trying to get you christians to understand what we're saying is like :banghead:

Again, WHAT are you celebrating?

Also, it is a BFD that Christ is in the name. DUh! It wasn't just a coincidence.

Never mind. I'd be better off trying to talk to a tree stump.

The question has been answered in this thread. Go back and read it. :huggy:

How does that make me a hypocrit?Angels? Crosses? Lack of belief in either?

Because we celebrate it for different reasons. So it has christ in the name. BFD. :shrug:I just don't get what's so hard to understand about tradition.You really don't see the problem with celebrating a religious event with no regard for the religion?

Do you celbrate any one else's religious holidays?

Angels? Crosses? Lack of belief in either?

I can't like them just because they're pretty?

The question has been answered in this thread. Go back and read it. :huggy:

Yeah, you celebrate "Christmas" even though you don't believe in Christ. :roflmao:

And mAlice has angels and crosses on her winter solstice tree! That's effin' hilarious! :killingme

Thanks for the entertainment folks!

You really don't see the problem with celebrating a religious event with no regard for the religion?

Do you celbrate any one else's religious holidays?

I celebrate St. Patty's day I like the green beer.

You really don't see the problem with celebrating a religious event with no regard for the religion?

Do you celbrate any one else's religious holidays?

No, I don't see a problem with it, but apparently you do.


I wasn't exposed to other traditions growing up.

Yeah, you celebrate "Christmas" even though you don't believe in Christ. :roflmao:

And mAlice has angels and crosses on her winter solstice tree! That's effin' hilarious! :killingme

Thanks for the entertainment folks!

You're such a good child of god. He must be very proud of you.

Yeah, you celebrate "Christmas" even though you don't believe in Christ. :roflmao:

And mAlice has angels and crosses on her winter solstice tree! That's effin' hilarious! :killingme

Thanks for the entertainment folks!

Excuse me? Did I say I didn't believe in Jesus? Gee, deja vu. I most definitely believe there was a man named Jesus. This has been covered already in this thread. mAlice has just about the same opinion of it that I do.

I can't like them just because they're pretty?Of course you can.... I strongly suspect that's not why you have them on your solstice tree, but......

I celebrate St. Patty's day I like the green beer.What does that have to do with a religious event?

No, I don't see a problem with it, but apparently you do.


I wasn't exposed to other traditions growing up.I do see a problem with it. I find it disrespectful to mock someone's religious beliefs by doing things like claiming to celebrate their diety when I really don't believe in that diety.

you were complaining about atheists "hijacking" the holiday, when that's exactly what christians did in the first place.

I was just pointing that out.

What was the specific name of the holiday? Specifically how long ago did this happen? How did Christians adopting some of the traditions of this "pagan holiday" remove the central point of pagans celebrating their holiday? How many countries adopted this "pagan holiday" as a federal holiday, with days off of work, etc...?

Christians didn't attempt to remove the central focus of this "pagan holiday", they simply adopted their traditions into a holiday of their own to celebrate the birth of Christ. So they hijacked nothing. Perhaps they borrowed or adopted, but not hijacked.

What does that have to do with a religious event?

It's not about the religious event. He's comparing that to non Irish people celebrating an Irish holiday. The same with Cinco de Mayo. Many people celebrate it just because they can and it's fun. :smile:

I do see a problem with it. I find it disrespectful to mock someone's religious beliefs by doing things like claiming to celebrate their diety when I really don't believe in that diety.

If you think I'm mocking your beliefs, that's your problem. I'm not gonna' stop doing something I've done all my life just to make your miserable little life happier.

Excuse me? Did I say I didn't believe in Jesus? Gee, deja vu. I most definitely believe there was a man named Jesus. This has been covered already in this thread. mAlice has just about the same opinion of it that I do.So, you celebrate Jesus's birth as the only begotten son of God, who died for your sins and was raised again to sit at the right hand of God?

Or, just some good political activist like MLK?

I do see a problem with it. I find it disrespectful to mock someone's religious beliefs by doing things like claiming to celebrate their diety when I really don't believe in that diety.

So you want to control what she does in her own home? How does her tree affect you?

It's not about the religious event. He's comparing that to non Irish people celebrating an Irish holiday. The same with Cinco de Mayo. Many people celebrate it just because they can and it's fun. :smile:I agree many people find any reason to drink whoop it up.

That's pretty different though, don't you think?

So, you celebrate Jesus's birth as the only begotten son of God, who died for your sins and was raised again to sit at the right hand of God?

Or, just some good political activist like MLK?

I don't celebrate Christmas for Jesus's birth.

If you think I'm mocking your beliefs, that's your problem. I'm not gonna' stop doing something I've done all my life just to make your miserable little life happier.Why do you think my life is miserable? :confused:

I don't think the OP was asking you to stop, and I'm not asking you to stop. You have the right to be as disrespectful to other people as you choose - that's certainly your choice and a right you've decided to hold on to tightly. :lol: I think the OP was just frustrated non-religious people choose to belittle Christians by claiming to celebrate something they're not really celebrating.

I don't celebrate Christmas for Jesus's birth.You don't celebrate religious holiday designated for celebrating the birth of Christ for Christ's birth?

That was the point of the OP, I believe.... To point out that's kind of disingenuous

I agree many people find any reason to drink whoop it up.

That's pretty different though, don't you think?

No, they're celebrating because they want to. What's so different about that?

Why do you think my life is miserable? :confused:

I don't think the OP was asking you to stop, and I'm not asking you to stop. You have the right to be as disrespectful to other people as you choose - that's certainly your choice and a right you've decided to hold on to tightly. :lol: I think the OP was just frustrated non-religious people choose to belittle Christians by claiming to celebrate something they're not really celebrating.

Kinda' like christians celebrating pagan gods/traditions and calling it christmas. That shows great respect for your god.

I agree many people find any reason to drink whoop it up.

That's pretty different though, don't you think?

Saint Patricks Day does have some religious background also I'm not Irish. I don't celebrate Halloween because I think its weird. Halloween is what the holy day of all saints?

Why do you think my life is miserable? :confused:

I don't think the OP was asking you to stop, and I'm not asking you to stop. You have the right to be as disrespectful to other people as you choose - that's certainly your choice and a right you've decided to hold on to tightly. :lol: I think the OP was just frustrated non-religious people choose to belittle Christians by claiming to celebrate something they're not really celebrating.

:roflmao: You are too funny! How is she being disrespectful by decorating her home? She thinks angels are pretty. That's disrespectful?

You don't celebrate religious holiday designated for celebrating the birth of Christ for Christ's birth?

That was the point of the OP, I believe.... To point out that's kind of disingenuous

Nope, I don't celebrate Christmas for religious reason. I celebrate it for other reasons. I'm so glad we came to America for religious freedom! :yahoo:

No, they're celebrating because they want to. What's so different about that?To religous people, religious holidays have deeper meaning than green beer and "Kiss me, I'm Irish", or "drink Corona, another country won their indepence from yet another country"

Religious people put their diety above such trivial things. That's why I suggest when people celebrate Christmas when they don't believe in Jesus as a saviour they are belittling, trivializing, mocking Christianity.

Now, I'm not Islamic, and I won't suggesting killing anyone who insults Christianity the way a small portion of Muslims suggest killing anyone who insults Islam. But, it's still insulting, disrespectful behavior nonetheless.

Kinda' like christians celebrating pagan gods/traditions and calling it christmas. That shows great respect for your god.Christians don't celebrate pagan gods, but it's clear that some traditions were adopted in a spririt of inclusion.

Christians don't celebrate pagan gods, but it's clear that some traditions were adopted in a spririt of inclusion.


:lmao: Whatever. I'm tired of having a discussion with someone who is so filled with hatred toward people who are different.

So, is it me, or do the christians have a bigger problem with this than the athiests do? :roflmao: I don't see what the big deal is. People want to change the name, they flip out. People don't want to change the name, they still flip out. Go figure.

Once again Cow, you aren't paying attention. It's about the general effort (particularly by atheists) to remove God from the public. From the pledge, from our schools, they protest th Christmas being put on signs in WalMart for crying out loud. Changing the name of Christmas is only a small part of the battle Christians are facing in having our faith all but banished from this country that was founded on Christian prinicples.

To religous people, religious holidays have deeper meaning than green beer and "Kiss me, I'm Irish", or "drink Corona, another country won their indepence from yet another country"

Religious people put their diety above such trivial things. That's why I suggest when people celebrate Christmas when they don't believe in Jesus as a saviour they are belittling, trivializing, mocking Christianity.

Now, I'm not Islamic, and I won't suggesting killing anyone who insults Christianity the way a small portion of Muslims suggest killing anyone who insults Islam. But, it's still insulting, disrespectful behavior nonetheless.

Yes, because all christians are morally superior to everyone else. :lmao: :killingme

The point is not how people celebrate holidays, it's that they can celebrate them. You're comparing killing people over religion to putting up a tree with angels? :rolleyes: C'mon...

:roflmao: You are too funny! How is she being disrespectful by decorating her home? She thinks angels are pretty. That's disrespectful?No, thinking angels are pretty is not disrespectful.

Decorating one's home is not disrepectful.

Celebrating, with parties designated as CHRISTmas parties, with decorations designated as CHRISTmas/Christian symbols, etc., a religious holiday when one does not have any belief (in fact, they routinely belittle people who DO have the belief) in that religion is disrespectful.Nope, I don't celebrate Christmas for religious reason. I celebrate it for other reasons. I'm so glad we came to America for religious freedom! :yahoo:And, those freedoms are indeed great! :patriot:

Christians don't celebrate pagan gods, but it's clear that some traditions were adopted in a spririt of inclusion.

Inclusion?? Are you serious?

Christians were NOT inclusive.

Unless you consider burning heretics and non-believers at the stake so they could join you in heaven inclusive.


When you look back at history and the advent (good word choice if i do say so myself) of Christmas, inclusiveness was the last thing on any Christians mind. They were battling for the hearts and souls of the pagans, and any and all non-believers, EVEN if it meant killing all of them to convince them of the error of their ways.

Yes, Chrstianity is the religion of Peace.. or pieces, as those that were quartered or ripped apart on the rack would be after the fact.

:lmao: Whatever. I'm tired of having a discussion with someone who is so filled with hatred toward people who are different.
:killingme


Who do I hate? :lmao:

Once again Cow,

I'm sure you aren't trying to be insulting, because that's not a christian thing to do. You can call me CG. :smile:

you aren't paying attention. It's about the general effort (particularly by atheists) to remove God from the public. From the pledge, from our schools, they protest th Christmas being put on signs in WalMart for crying out loud. Changing the name of Christmas is only a small part of the battle Christians are facing in having our faith all but banished from this country that was founded on Christian prinicples.

No, YOU aren't paying attention. This thread is asking why athiests celebrate Christmas. You are the one talking about changing names.

Yes, because all christians are morally superior to everyone else. :lmao: :killingmeI don't know who suggested that to you, but they are wrong, and this false claim has really no bearing on the subjectThe point is not how people celebrate holidays, it's that they can celebrate them. You're comparing killing people over religion to putting up a tree with angels? :rolleyes: C'mon...I'm not comparing any such things!

I agree, you can. No one that I've read disputes that. :buddies:

No, thinking angels are pretty is not disrespectful.

Decorating one's home is not disrepectful.

Celebrating, with parties designated as CHRISTmas parties, with decorations designated as CHRISTmas/Christian symbols, etc., a religious holiday when one does not have any belief (in fact, they routinely belittle people who DO have the belief) in that religion is disrespectful.

Christians are always the victims, aren't they? :poorbaby: Christians constantly try to spread their ideals, hand out pamplets, do missionary work. It's ok. But as soon as someone with different beliefs tries to say anything, it's belittling? Nice double standard you got there.



And, those freedoms are indeed great! :patriot:

But only if you agree with it, right?

Christians are always the victims, aren't they? :poorbaby: Christians constantly try to spread their ideals, hand out pamplets, do missionary work. It's ok. But as soon as someone with different beliefs tries to say anything, it's belittling? Nice double standard you got there.







:clap: It's the christian way. :yay:

Inclusion?? Are you serious?

Christians were NOT inclusive.

Unless you consider burning heretics and non-believers at the stake so they could join you in heaven inclusive.


When you look back at history and the advent (good word choice if i do say so myself) of Christmas, inclusiveness was the last thing on any Christians mind. They were battling for the hearts and souls of the pagans, and any and all non-believers, EVEN if it meant killing all of them to convince them of the error of their ways.

Yes, Chrstianity is the religion of Peace.. or pieces, as those that were quartered or ripped apart on the rack would be after the fact."Battling for the hearts and souls of the pagans...." by adopting many of their traditions into Christian traditions.


Yes, many Christians were bad and did "wrong" things. :rolleyes: Can you ever show me where I suggested something else?

I don't know who suggested that to you, but they are wrong, and this false claim has really no bearing on the subject.
And your quote:
Religious people put their diety above such trivial things.


I'm not comparing any such things!
Also your quote:

Now, I'm not Islamic, and I won't suggesting killing anyone who insults Christianity the way a small portion of Muslims suggest killing anyone who insults Islam. But, it's still insulting, disrespectful behavior nonetheless.

Because in most of the world, Christmas is not just a Christian Holiday, it is also a secular one, just like 4th of July, St Patty's (another religious turned secular), Valentines Day (ditto) and Halloween (ditto).

What do you celebrate at the End of December? Do you know why Christmas is that time of year? (because its not when Jesus was born).
You know for sure when Jesus was born?

Please, do tell!


But, it's good that you're getting the point of the OP (as I understood it) that turning CHRISTmas into a secular holiday seems to be the goal, and that is what is in question... :buddies:

All of the holidays that we know of celebrate something. Whether you are celebrating Ground Hog day or Fourth of July, they all have a meaning. Christmas is a christian holiday to celebrate the birth or Christ.

Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindu people do not celebrate Christmas. Why do non-believing Americans celebrate Christmas? Christians don't celebrate other religion's holidays.

What is it that Atheists celebrate at the end of December? It's certainly not Christmas.

Simple. Christmas has become so commercialized and blown up that all of you Christians basically turned it into a national holiday. By having everyone have "Christmas" and "Easter" break, closing EVERYTHING on Christmas besides Asian restaurants and movie theaters (along with numerous other things that are done for Christmas), you virtually made it an American holiday. As a result, many non-Christian Americans celebrate the holiday. It's not only the atheists who celebrate Christmas. I actually know some people from other religions who celebrate it. Obviously they don't do much more than the xmas tree, lights, and presents or dinner...but that's still something.

Actually, even Jews celebrate Christmas. Christmas eve = chinese food, christmas day = movies. It's basically a Christmas tradition. It's not necessarily celebrated the same way, but it's still a family time :smile:

Kinda' like christians celebrating pagan gods/traditions and calling it christmas. That shows great respect for your god.

Well, we stole this land and called it America. I do believe, given your rationale, we should change the name of this country and change the name of Independence Day to <put your new name here>. And we will change the new year from when the Chinese had it thousands of years before us, so our new year will no longer be on 1 Jan, it will be on Jan 26 this coming year and Feb 14 the following year and so on accordingly.

I mean since we are changing things for the sake of change... or does this change thing only apply to Christian "stolen holidays"?

No, thinking angels are pretty is not disrespectful.

Decorating one's home is not disrepectful.

Celebrating, with parties designated as CHRISTmas parties, with decorations designated as CHRISTmas/Christian symbols, etc., a religious holiday when one does not have any belief (in fact, they routinely belittle people who DO have the belief) in that religion is disrespectful.And, those freedoms are indeed great! :patriot:

I don't really celebrate Easter if that's a little less disrespectful to you.

Well, we stole this land and called it America. I do believe, given your rationale, we should change the name of this country and change the name of Independence Day to <put your new name here>. And we will change the new year from when the Chinese had it thousands of years before us, so our new year will no longer be on 1 Jan, it will be on Jan 26 this coming year and Feb 14 the following year and so on accordingly.

I mean since we are changing things for the sake of change... or does this change thing only apply to Christian "stolen holidays"?

OMG. :roflmao: Are you joking? You're joking, right? You're not still stuck on changing the name of the day, right? :lmao: Nobody is saying they want to do that! :lmao: :killingme

Christians are always the victims, aren't they? :poorbaby: Christians constantly try to spread their ideals, hand out pamplets, do missionary work. It's ok. But as soon as someone with different beliefs tries to say anything, it's belittling? Nice double standard you got there.If I were to take your religion (if you had one) and claim that what you hold dear in it wasn't worth holding dear, and then belittled your religion by mocking it's trappings and pretending to celebrate it's holy days just for a day off of work, I'd bet you'd think that was disrespectful.

If a missionary, pamphlet-provider, etc., were to claim your religion is wrong, and then pretended to believe in your religion for no apparent reason, that would be wrong.But only if you agree with it, right?Nope, freedom for all is my belief.

You're such a good child of god. He must be very proud of you.

I try. He may be, He may not be, time will tell.

I'm sorry you don't like it when the tables are turned and you're the one being laughed at but I'm doing it anyway....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Excuse me? Did I say I didn't believe in Jesus? Gee, deja vu. I most definitely believe there was a man named Jesus. This has been covered already in this thread. mAlice has just about the same opinion of it that I do.

I'm not talking about the historical Jesus, I said CHRIST for a reason but yourself not being a Christian that would be over your head, so uh yeah just go on with your non-Christ believing Christmas celebrating self, it's all good. That sweet spirit of Christmas tradition that you feel is Christ's whether you want to believe it or not. :yay:

Well, we stole this land and called it America. I do believe, given your rationale, we should change the name of this country and change the name of Independence Day to <put your new name here>. And we will change the new year from when the Chinese had it thousands of years before us, so our new year will no longer be on 1 Jan, it will be on Jan 26 this coming year and Feb 14 the following year and so on accordingly.

I mean since we are changing things for the sake of change... or does this change thing only apply to Christian "stolen holidays"?

Wtf are you talkin' about?

And your quote:




Also your quote:How did any of those things suggest that ALL Christians are morally superior?

I try. He may be, He may not be, time will tell.

I'm sorry you don't like it when the tables are turned and you're the one being laughed at but I'm doing it anyway....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!



I'm not talking about the historical Jesus, I said CHRIST for a reason but yourself not being a Christian that would be over your head, so uh yeah just go on with your non-Christ believing Christmas celebrating self, it's all good. That sweet spirit of Christmas tradition that you feel is Christ's whether you want to believe it or not. :yay:


Your god must be so proud of you. Way to attract the masses. :yay:

You know for sure when Jesus was born?

Please, do tell!



It's not too hard for someone with an open mind and not a polluted mind to figure out.

Why were they traveling with her in her condition? Do you know?

What time of year did this require them to travel?

NOT over the winter, NOT in December..

So the question should be not why do the atheists celebrate Christmas, but why do the Christian?

Simple. Christmas has become so commercialized and blown up that all of you Christians basically turned it into a national holiday. By having everyone have "Christmas" and "Easter" break, closing EVERYTHING on Christmas besides Asian restaurants and movie theaters (along with numerous other things that are done for Christmas), you virtually made it an American holiday. As a result, many non-Christian Americans celebrate the holiday. It's not only the atheists who celebrate Christmas. I actually know some people from other religions who celebrate it. Obviously they don't do much more than the xmas tree, lights, and presents or dinner...but that's still something.

Actually, even Jews celebrate Christmas. Christmas eve = chinese food, christmas day = movies. It's basically a Christmas tradition. It's not necessarily celebrated the same way, but it's still a family time :smile:
Do you see the difference between traditions done at Christmas time and actually celebrating Christmas?

How many religions can say the exact same thing about Christians, and their theft of their religious holy days (Easter, Christmas, Valentines)?

I don't know, you tell me.

You seem to be unable to differentiate between adopting and theft. Christians adopted the traditions of some of these ancient celebrations. Atheists aim to remove the very name in which this Holiday is now defined. As I've said before, have at it and good luck with that one.

It's not too hard for someone with an open mind and not a polluted mind to figure out.

Why were they traveling with her in her condition? Do you know?

What time of year did this require them to travel?

NOT over the winter, NOT in December..I agree it wasn't probably December to go for the census, it was probably more like April or so.

I thought you KNEW, not you presumed.

See, we don't know exactly when, so a date was chosen to celebrate the occurance, and that date adopted some other traditions to include and help bring others to the Truth. I can accept that, because the actual date is really not that important. The occurance is, but whether it was April 25th or May 3rd is trivial details.

If I were to take your religion (if you had one) and claim that what you hold dear in it wasn't worth holding dear, and then belittled your religion by mocking it's trappings and pretending to celebrate it's holy days just for a day off of work, I'd bet you'd think that was disrespectful.

If a missionary, pamphlet-provider, etc., were to claim your religion is wrong, and then pretended to believe in your religion for no apparent reason, that would be wrong.Nope, freedom for all is my belief.

Gee, how about religious people trying to convert me? It's the same thing. Saying athiests are bad people with no morals is indeed disrespecful. I think people handing me their religious paraphanalia is disrespectful. And, we're not just celebrating for days off work. I think that's been explained several times in this thread. For you to continue to say that is disrespectful.




I'm not talking about the historical Jesus, I said CHRIST for a reason but yourself not being a Christian that would be over your head, so uh yeah just go on with your non-Christ believing Christmas celebrating self, it's all good. That sweet spirit of Christmas tradition that you feel is Christ's whether you want to believe it or not. :yay:


You're the one with the problem. Not us. :shrug: I don't have any issues with it.

:popcorn:

I don't know, you tell me.

You seem to be unable to differentiate between adopting and theft. Christians adopted the traditions of some of these ancient celebrations. Atheists aim to remove the very name in which this Holiday is now defined. As I've said before, have at it and good luck with that one.

Ok, either you're doing this on purpose, or you have no reading comprehension skills whatsoever. The ONLY poeple talking about changing the name of the holiday are the christians.


Oh yeah, and it's not adopting when you turn around and tell everyone else the right and wrong ways to celebrate.

I'm certainly not trying to stop you. I was just curious what you are celebrating. The history as to why CHRISTMAS is celebrated when it is, is irrelevant. It is still a celebration of the birth of CHRIST. Somewhere in the word CHRISTmas, this should be obvious.
I am celebrating my family, my friends and the good things that have happened to me over the year. We exchange gifts with each other, not with Jesus. It's just a tradition like any other.

Curious why some of you are quibbling over this and why you care that heathens are celebrating "your" holiday?

I must not point out the irony


Thank you for not pointing out the irony.

and why you care that heathens are celebrating "your" holiday?

Selfishness?

Plus, just because I don't believe doesn't mean nobody does. When my kids were little, we'd put out the Nativity and I would tell them the story of Jesus' birth. Even if you don't believe in God, it's still a great story.

A thrill of hope, the weary world rejoices,
For yonder breaks a new and glorious morn.

Gee, how about religious people trying to convert me? It's the same thing. Saying athiests are bad people with no morals is indeed disrespecful. I think people handing me their religious paraphanalia is disrespectful. And, we're not just celebrating for days off work. I think that's been explained several times in this thread. For you to continue to say that is disrespectful.If someone tries to convert you after you've asked to be left alone on the subject, I agree that's disrespectful. I don't know who suggested that atheists have no morals is, but that's disrespectful.

Adopting the holiday and celebrating something in which you don't believe just because your family tradition shows it is disrespectful. Have a big dinner, roast chestnuts and take a sleigh ride, build a snowman in the meadow, heck, even CALL it Christmas. Just realize that by suggesting you're celebrating Christmas you're suggesting that you believe in Christ as the saviour. If you celebrate Christmas and you don't believe, you're being disrespectful, that's all. It's not that big a deal, you have that right.

That hole sitting in the corner, fingers in the ears, rocking back and forth thing.


:lalala: :roflmao:

Actually it was ignored by most (except for BCP).


That hole sitting in the corner, fingers in the ears, rocking back and forth thing.Actually, I thought it was pretty well responded to. What point do you feel was not addressed?

Do you see the difference between traditions done at Christmas time and actually celebrating Christmas?

Yes, but there are various definitions.

One definition might be about going to church, celebrating the birth of christ, and praying all day. Lets face it, the whole dinner, presents, and decorations bull#### is commercialized BS.

One definition may include celebrating the birth of christ + church, but it also includes the family dinner, presents, decorations, and all that jazz.

Another definition (still talking about Christians here) is merely the dinner, presents, decorations, etc...nothing religious about it.

Then obviously you have a bunch of non Christians who share the same definition as many Christians...they Americanized it and found it to be a nice time to get together with the family, exchange presents, and have fun.

But who says celebrating a holiday has to have a similar tradition to still be celebrating? Christmas is a day where almost everything in this country is closed, which virtually makes it an American holiday. People celebrate Christmas by getting together with family and friends and have different traditions...such as going to the movies and eating Chinese food. Sure, maybe no presents are given, but it's no more or less an observance of Christmas than someone who does it completely non-religious, but sits underneath their Christmas tree handing out presents.

April 6, 1BC

Selfishness?Respect for other's beliefs?

Just realize that by suggesting you're celebrating Christmas you're suggesting that you believe in Christ as the saviour. If you celebrate Christmas and you don't believe, you're being disrespectful, that's all. It's not that big a deal, you have that right.

:lol: I still don't understand how you think people are disrespecting you by celebrating what they want to celebrate. :lmao:

If you celebrate Christmas and you don't believe, you're being disrespectful, that's all. It's not that big a deal, you have that right.

Do you do anything for St. Patrick's Day? Cinco de Mayo? Are you Irish/Mexican?

This will really send you through the roof, but I celebrate Easter as well :jet: Baskets of candy, hiding the eggs, family dinner, the whole schmear. I have even been known to attend church services with my heathen butt planted in the pew and singing with the rest of the congregation.

Do you do anything for St. Patrick's Day? Cinco de Mayo? Are you Irish/Mexican?

This will really send you through the roof, but I celebrate Easter as well :jet: Baskets of candy, hiding the eggs, family dinner, the whole schmear. I have even been known to attend church services with my heathen butt planted in the pew and singing with the rest of the congregation.

Go Catholic and kill two birds with one stone.. Get an aerobic work out, AND get your card punched for attending church the one or two times a year.

Respect for other's beliefs?

What you don't get (or refuse to get) is that athiests (in this case) are not trying to stop christmas (or change the name, psy). They're celebrating it. THey might not be celebrating it for exactly the same reasons you are, but they're celebrating none the less. That is NOT disrespecting others.

:lol: I still don't understand how you think people are disrespecting you by celebrating what they want to celebrate. :lmao:If your friend had a big party on your son's birthday, inviting friends and telling stories of your son's birth, calling it "CGSonsmas Day", etc., etc., but ignored your actual son - indeed, even claimed your son did not exist - wouldn't you find that disrespectful (or maybe even stupid on your friend's part)?

OMG. :roflmao: Are you joking? You're joking, right? You're not still stuck on changing the name of the day, right? :lmao: Nobody is saying they want to do that! :lmao: :killingme

Really? No one? Read back where I posted two articles just from this year that atheist are removing the name Christmas from parades and countering Christmas decorations (like the nativity) with their anti-religious drivel. There have been lawsuits against WalMart to have Christmas removed from their signs.

Here's the ACLU (http://savereligion.org/2007/12/06/aclu-sues-government-over-christmas-holiday/)from last year.

The ACLU, in the District Court of San Francisco, has filed a lawsuit against the federal government to officially remove Christmas from the list of federal holidays.

Or what about this (http://wcbstv.com/seenon/jesus.halloween.costume.2.853729.html)...

A Paramus middle school student was sent home Friday after he came to school dressed up as Jesus for Halloween.

You can dress as the devil, or a chainsaw murderer, but dress like Jesus on Halloween... NO WAY! You're not hijacking our pagan/satanic religious holiday with your Christian drivel.

And one more (http://www.redorbit.com/news/general/314066/boston_holiday_tree_stirs_controversy/index.html)...

Boston set off a furor this week when it officially renamed a giant tree erected in a city park a "holiday tree" instead of a "Christmas tree."

So don't tell me no one wants to change the name. There are tons of examples out there. You're either in denial, not paying attention or just don't care about the facts.

Do you do anything for St. Patrick's Day? Cinco de Mayo? Are you Irish/Mexican?No, they don't pertain to me. Actually, I have to admit, I've (inadvertently) worn green on St. Patrick's day.This will really send you through the roof, but I celebrate Easter as well :jet: Baskets of candy, hiding the eggs, family dinner, the whole schmear. I have even been known to attend church services with my heathen butt planted in the pew and singing with the rest of the congregation.And, you don't find that hypocritical? Acting like you worship something you don't worship, just to not be different?

If your friend had a big party on your son's birthday, inviting friends and telling stories of your son's birth, calling it "CGSonsmas Day", etc., etc., but ignored your actual son - indeed, even claimed your son did not exist - wouldn't you find that disrespectful (or maybe even stupid on your friend's part)?

Well, if God has a problem with us celebrating his son's birth without believing in his divinity, he can smite us.

For the record, I do believe Jesus was a living human being, and religious teacher. I just don't believe he is the Son of God or was born of a virgin.

What you don't get (or refuse to get) is that athiests (in this case) are not trying to stop christmas (or change the name, psy). They're celebrating it. THey might not be celebrating it for exactly the same reasons you are, but they're celebrating none the less. That is NOT disrespecting others.I don't think you're trying to stop Christmas! :confused: Why would you suggest I thought that?

My point is, they're not celebrating Christmas, regardless of what they call it. They're celebrating family, or tradition, or whatever, but if they're not celebrating the birth of the saviour, they're not celebrating Christmas (since that's what Christmas is).

If your friend had a big party on your son's birthday, inviting friends and telling stories of your son's birth, calling it "CGSonsmas Day", etc., etc., but ignored your actual son - indeed, even claimed your son did not exist - wouldn't you find that disrespectful (or maybe even stupid on your friend's part)?

:lmao: That's not a very equal comparison.

Really? No one? Read back where I posted two articles just from this year that atheist are removing the name Christmas from parades and countering Christmas decorations (like the nativity) with their anti-religious drivel. So don't tell me no one wants to change the name. There are tons of examples out there. You're either in denial, not paying attention or just don't care about the facts.


:roflmao: YOU are the one who brought it up in this thread. This thread is about why athiests celebrate it, not why they want to change the name. No athiest in this thread has even hinted at wanting to change the name. So, again, you are the one who brought it up.

I don't think you're trying to stop Christmas! :confused: Why would you suggest I thought that?

I said that because if that's what we were doing, then you had a reason to be upset.

My point is, they're not celebrating Christmas, regardless of what they call it. They're celebrating family, or tradition, or whatever, but if they're not celebrating the birth of the saviour, they're not celebrating Christmas (since that's what Christmas is).

Oh well. Deal with it. :shrug: It's not a big deal. Don't worry about what others do in their own home. It doesn't hurt anyone, does it?

Well, if God has a problem with us celebrating his son's birth without believing in his divinity, he can smite us.My point wasn't whether God would, it was whether it's reasonable to find that disrespectful. And, an atheist wouldn't believe in God, so they couldn't be celebrating His Son's birth - just the birth of some guy at most, but most atheists wouldn't even go so far as to suggest that's what they're celebrating (at least none on here so far have suggested that - they've suggested just the opposite to be true).For the record, I do believe Jesus was a living human being, and religious teacher. I just don't believe he is the Son of God or was born of a virgin.And, you may very well be right - I'm not trying to convert you. That's really a whole different thread! :lol:

:lmao: That's not a very equal comparison.




:roflmao: YOU are the one who brought it up in this thread. This thread is about why athiests celebrate it, not why they want to change the name. No athiest in this thread has even hinted at wanting to change the name. So, again, you are the one who brought it up.

I know. I already admitted that I hijacked the thread. :biggrin: And you jumped right in. Sooooooooooooo...

So you are okay with keeping the name Christmas? You're okay that Christian "stole" a pagan holiday for their very own and convinced the world to make it a world-wide celebration with days off work, and all the trimmings? I mean it is the largest celebrated holiday globally pagan and Christian alike?

:lmao: That's not a very equal comparison.True, your son would not be the Christ. I was trying to think of something that you would hold dear, and that's the best I could think up quickly.

Anybody seen my wrapping paper......:confused:

I said that because if that's what we were doing, then you had a reason to be upset. Actually, there's good reason to be bothered without a name changeOh well. Deal with it. :shrug: It's not a big deal. Don't worry about what others do in their own home. It doesn't hurt anyone, does it?What you celebrate doesn't effect me, this is very true. But, how society changes effect both of our offspring's offspring when overall society more fully removes Christ from Christmas, and more fully removes religion from society.

Lets just change the name to Xaquin44 Day and be done with it.

You can still give gifts and decorate a tree and etc.

also, any cash donations you want to send my way will be welcome.

So you are okay with keeping the name Christmas?

You're okay that Christian "stole" a pagan holiday for their very own and convinced the world to make it a world-wide celebration with days off work, and all the trimmings? I mean it is the largest celebrated holiday globally pagan and Christian alike?


Yes. I don't believe in the pagan gods, either.

Actually, there's good reason to be bothered without a name changeWhat you celebrate doesn't effect me, this is very true. But, how society changes effect both of our offspring's offspring when overall society more fully removes Christ from Christmas, and more fully removes religion from society.

Kinda' like chipping away at pagan beliefs...got ya'. :yay:

And, you don't find that hypocritical? Acting like you worship something you don't worship, just to not be different?

I don't act like I worship - I'm merely attending the service. I genuinely enjoy church (well, some of them anyway) and this thread is the very first time any religious person has taken issue with me joining them or celebrating their traditions.

Where you are going awry is that people like me decorate, put up lights and a tree, exchange gifts, eat a big meal, etc - all of which have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus or God in any capacity. Do you also find it hypocritical that Christmas Day is a federal holiday, and everyone gets the day off, instead of just Christians?

I know. I already admitted that I hijacked the thread. :biggrin: And you jumped right in. Sooooooooooooo...

So you are okay with keeping the name Christmas? You're okay that Christian "stole" a pagan holiday for their very own and convinced the world to make it a world-wide celebration with days off work, and all the trimmings? I mean it is the largest celebrated holiday globally pagan and Christian alike?

I'm ok with the name Christmas. :shrug:


What you celebrate doesn't effect me, this is very true. But, how society changes effect both of our offspring's offspring when overall society more fully removes Christ from Christmas, and more fully removes religion from society.

As long as we don't prevent anyone from believing what they want to believe, everything will be fine.

I don't act like I worship - I'm merely attending the service. I genuinely enjoy church (well, some of them anyway) and this thread is the very first time any religious person has taken issue with me joining them or celebrating their traditions.

Where you are going awry is that people like me decorate, put up lights and a tree, exchange gifts, eat a big meal, etc - all of which have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus or God in any capacity. Do you also find it hypocritical that Christmas Day is a federal holiday, and everyone gets the day off, instead of just Christians?

Separation of church and state, yet it's a federal holiday, which is why it's Americanized. If it's merely a Christian holiday then everything should be open, people should work as usual, and they can make it a religious holiday and take the day off if they so choose...just like everyone else from every other religion.

Kinda' like chipping away at pagan beliefs...got ya'. :yay:NOW you've got it!!

This is just like the immigration debate - the American Indians had a crappy immigration plan, and look what happened to them! Just because we western cultured people are the ones that wronged the American Indians doesn't mean we should let that happen to us - and just because the pagans let it happen to them doesn't mean the Christians should let it happen to us!!!!



THANK YOU FOR GETTING IT!!!!!!

Your god must be so proud of you. Way to attract the masses. :yay:

What do you know about it anyway? Go cry under your winter solstice tree full of angels and crosses. :lmao:

You're the one with the problem. Not us. :shrug: I don't have any issues with it.

Not me, I said it's all good. Honestly, IMO I think unbeknownst to persons such as yourself you celebrate Christ even if you don't realize it. Like I said, that good feeling you get this time of year is of Christ whether you realize it or not. :smile:

Beta has a point, although I think it's because Christianity was and perhaps still is the dominant religion in this country. It's become an American holiday as much as it is a religious one. And I'm not one to complain when names of parades or programs get changed from Christmas to Holiday because afterall not everyone in this nation is Christian.

I just happen to make fun of mAlice because as vehementaly anti-religious and anti-Christian as she seems to be, she still celebrates Christmas and has angels and crosses on her tree. I just find that ironically hilarious! :biggrin:

I don't act like I worship - I'm merely attending the service. I genuinely enjoy church (well, some of them anyway) and this thread is the very first time any religious person has taken issue with me joining them or celebrating their traditions.

Where you are going awry is that people like me decorate, put up lights and a tree, exchange gifts, eat a big meal, etc - all of which have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus or God in any capacity. Do you also find it hypocritical that Christmas Day is a federal holiday, and everyone gets the day off, instead of just Christians?Do you merely attend, or do you sing the songs of worship, recite the Creed, etc.? If you're merely attending as a bystander, I also have no problem with that. If you're making claims in your reciting, taking communion, etc., that would be "wrong" IMHO.

I don't find it wrong to be a holiday, nor that everyone gets the day off, actually (regardless of any previous post I may have made on that subject). Because, logistically, the vast majority of people would be taking the day as the vast majority claim to be Christian, so the people left to work would be unable to accomplish much.

Separation of church and state, yet it's a federal holiday, which is why it's Americanized. If it's merely a Christian holiday then everything should be open, people should work as usual, and they can make it a religious holiday and take the day off if they so choose...just like everyone else from every other religion.

I agree! :clap:

:nono:

Actually theres nothing Unique about Christ
Chrishna of Hindostan.
Budha Sakia of India.
Salivahana of Bermuda.
Zulis, or Zhule, also Osiris and Orus, of Egypt.
Odin of the Scandinavians.
Crite of Chaldea.
Zoroaster and Mithra of Persia.
Baal and Taut, "the only Begotten of God," of Phenicia.
Indra of Thibet.
Bali of Afghanistan.
Jao of Nepaul.
Wittoba of the Bilingonese.
Thammuz of Syria.
Atys of Phrygia.
Xaniolxis of Thrace.
Zoar of the Bonzes.
Adad of Assyria.
Deva Tat, and Sammonocadam of Siam.
Alcides of Thebes.
Mikado of the Sintoos.
Beddru of Japan.
Hesus or Eros, and Bremrillah, of the Druids.
Thor, son of Odin, of the Gauls.
Cadmus of Greece.
Hil and Feta of the Mandaites.
Gentaut and Quexalcote of Mexico.
Universal Monarch of the Sibyls.
Ischy of the Island of Formosa.
Divine Teacher of Plato.
Holy One of Xaca.
Fohi and Tien of China.
Adonis, son of the virgin Io of Greece.
Ixion and Quirinus of Rome.
Prometheus of Caucasus.
Mohamud, or Mahomet, of Arabia.
All have been worshiped as Gods, or sons of God; were incarnated Saviors or Messiahs, a few of them were reputedly born of virgins many of them were a character almost identical to Jesus ChristAnd, if a day were set aside for any of their births, and people celebrated it who didn't believe in that particular saviour, the people celebrating would be wrong.

In this case, we're talking about Christ.

:lalala::nono:

Actually theres nothing Unique about Christ
Chrishna of Hindostan.
Budha Sakia of India.
Salivahana of Bermuda.
Zulis, or Zhule, also Osiris and Orus, of Egypt.
Odin of the Scandinavians.
Crite of Chaldea.
Zoroaster and Mithra of Persia.
Baal and Taut, "the only Begotten of God," of Phenicia.
Indra of Thibet.
Bali of Afghanistan.
Jao of Nepaul.
Wittoba of the Bilingonese.
Thammuz of Syria.
Atys of Phrygia.
Xaniolxis of Thrace.
Zoar of the Bonzes.
Adad of Assyria.
Deva Tat, and Sammonocadam of Siam.
Alcides of Thebes.
Mikado of the Sintoos.
Beddru of Japan.
Hesus or Eros, and Bremrillah, of the Druids.
Thor, son of Odin, of the Gauls.
Cadmus of Greece.
Hil and Feta of the Mandaites.
Gentaut and Quexalcote of Mexico.
Universal Monarch of the Sibyls.
Ischy of the Island of Formosa.
Divine Teacher of Plato.
Holy One of Xaca.
Fohi and Tien of China.
Adonis, son of the virgin Io of Greece.
Ixion and Quirinus of Rome.
Prometheus of Caucasus.
Mohamud, or Mahomet, of Arabia.
All have been worshiped as Gods, or sons of God; were incarnated Saviors or Messiahs, a few of them were reputedly born of virgins many of them were a character almost identical to Jesus Christ

:lalala:

:confused: You don't even want to know other religions have existed?

:confused: You don't even want to know other religions have existed?

:rolleyes:

I don't act like I worship - I'm merely attending the service. I genuinely enjoy church (well, some of them anyway) and this thread is the very first time any religious person has taken issue with me joining them or celebrating their traditions.


I wonder if people would flip out if I said I've attended church a few times on Christmas eve? I don't act like I worship either. I go to support family members (I went once for my BIL, and once for D who wanted to go to support a friend). It's kinda nice to see everyone dressed up. I like singing some of the songs. It's just a nice sense of community. I wish they had a place like that except with no religion. :roflmao:

Like I said, that good feeling you get this time of year is of Christ whether you realize it or not. :smile:


Nope, it's most certainly not. The good feeling I get is because of my family and pretty decorations. :smile:

I wonder if people would flip out if I said I've attended church a few times on Christmas eve? I don't act like I worship either. I go to support family members (I went once for my BIL, and once for D who wanted to go to support a friend). It's kinda nice to see everyone dressed up. I like singing some of the songs. It's just a nice sense of community. I wish they had a place like that except with no religion. :roflmao:I would suggest a Church of Atheism, but I think that would be not getting the point :roflmao:

I wish they had a place like that except with no religion. :roflmao:

I've often thought it would be nice to have a day set aside for meeting and studying the origins of christianity, pagan gods, archeology, pre christian history. Lots of interesting stuff there.

It could be a covered dish event.

I would suggest a Church of Atheism, but I think that would be not getting the point :roflmao:

Science damn you! Allied Athiest Alliance FTW

Actually, there's good reason to be bothered without a name changeWhat you celebrate doesn't effect me, this is very true. But, how society changes effect both of our offspring's offspring when overall society more fully removes Christ from Christmas, and more fully removes religion from society.

This_Person. You've done a great job trying to reason with these people but you are not going to get them to understand. You can tell that a few of them like Cow and Mlice and Xqueen44 and Nutsack are just going to argue this to the end. I would suggest that you go talk to your cat. He is smarter.

I have read the past few pages of this thread. It really makes me thankful that I have not lost my faith. It makes me feel good that I am me and not one of them.

I've often thought it would be nice to have a day set aside for meeting and studying the origins of christianity, pagan gods, archeology, pre christian history. Lots of interesting stuff there.

It could be a covered dish event.

That would be very interesting. :yay:

This_Person. You've done a great job trying to reason with these people but you are not going to get them to understand. You can tell that a few of them like Cow and Mlice and Xqueen44 and Nutsack are just going to argue this to the end. I would suggest that you go talk to your cat. He is smarter.

I have read the past few pages of this thread. It really makes me thankful that I have not lost my faith. It makes me feel good that I am me and not one of them.

Wow, insulting people isn't something a christian should do. :ohwell:

This_Person. You've done a great job trying to reason with these people but you are not going to get them to understand. You can tell that a few of them like Cow and Mlice and Xqueen44 and Nutsack are just going to argue this to the end. I would suggest that you go talk to your cat. He is smarter.
I have read the past few pages of this thread. It really makes me thankful that I have not lost my faith. It makes me feel good that I am me and not one of them.


Your god must be so proud of you. You're so kind and understanding. :huggy:

I wonder if people would flip out if I said I've attended church a few times on Christmas eve? I don't act like I worship either. I go to support family members (I went once for my BIL, and once for D who wanted to go to support a friend). It's kinda nice to see everyone dressed up. I like singing some of the songs. It's just a nice sense of community. I wish they had a place like that except with no religion. :roflmao:

I wonder if they'd flip out if they knew my parents baptized me, little did they know I wasn't a believer.

Wow, insulting people isn't something a christian should do. :ohwell:

:yawn: