Bogart will be needing a ##### within the next year. He's ready now but too young..... In the meantime he'll keep practicing with his towel nightly @ 6PM.
:killingme

Way to pimp your pup Suz :lol:

Way to pimp your pup Suz :lol:

I thought so! But have to get the word out early, I don't see many Chows in the area. And I'm going to be very very picky because he IS show quality.

I thought so! But have to get the word out early, I don't see many Chows in the area. And I'm going to be very very picky because he IS show quality.

What are you going to do with the pups?

Bogart will be needing a ##### within the next year. He's ready now but too young..... In the meantime he'll keep practicing with his towel nightly @ 6PM.
:killingme


I posted a thread with this exact title last year.

The content of the thread was quite different though, and I didn't get any responses.

I hope your dog has better luck.

I posted a thread with this exact title last year.

The content of the thread was quite different though, and I didn't get any responses.

I hope your dog has better luck.



:jet: :lol:

Show quality? Says who..the breeder that sold him at 6 weeks? What has he won? He should not be put out for stud until he is two years old.

Show quality? Says who..the breeder that sold him at 6 weeks? What has he won? He should not be put out for stud until he is two years old.

:yeahthat: I also think this is the same dog that dropped out of puppy kindergarten!

:yeahthat: I also think this is the same dog that dropped out of puppy kindergarten! :killingme

I don't think they administer IQ tests at conformation shows, so he should be OK. :dork:

Be as picky as you want, but anyone who actually shows will be even pickier. Ahhhh nothing like backyard breeding to get the blood pumping and the ire up....

What are you going to do with the pups?

That would be worked out with the female's owner.

I posted a thread with this exact title last year.

The content of the thread was quite different though, and I didn't get any responses.

I hope your dog has better luck.

:killingme

Show quality? Says who..the breeder that sold him at 6 weeks? What has he won? He should not be put out for stud until he is two years old.

scuse me, what the hell do you know catt? YOU have no clue what age he was when he was sold so STFU! And I say he is show quality. Any one ever tell you what a ##### you sound like? Maybe you need to get laid.

:yeahthat: I also think this is the same dog that dropped out of puppy kindergarten!

Same goes for you. We didn't care for the "teacher". And he is being trained and doing wonderfully.

:killingme

I don't think they administer IQ tests at conformation shows, so he should be OK. :dork:

Be as picky as you want, but anyone who actually shows will be even pickier. Ahhhh nothing like backyard breeding to get the blood pumping and the ire up....

There won't be backyard breeding idiot.

scuse me, what the hell do you know catt? YOU have no clue what age he was when he was sold so STFU! And I say he is show quality. Any one ever tell you what a ##### you sound like? Maybe you need to get laid.

:lmao: Well, had you not deleted the thread where you said he was 6 weeks old, everyone could see that. And yeah, I'm a ##### where animals are concerned. Get laid? :lol: I'm show quality and I'm picky.

There won't be backyard breeding idiot.

Yeah..okay.

There won't be backyard breeding idiot.:bigwhoop:

Wow I guess we know who the ##### is now don't we?

You come on a community forum looking in advance for a ##### to stud your 'show quality' dog to, and what? You are a professional breeder?

Show quality according to who? How many conformation judges have examined your dog? Has your dog ever been in a ring? Will it stand for examination? Has it been temperament tested? Can you list the typical health problems with Chows and have you had your dog checked by a vet to be reasonably sure the dog won't pass on the genetics for Dysplaia, Entropion, Patella luxation... have you had the dog CERFed and / or OFA'd? Have you even had the hips X-rayed?

I'm guessing the answer to all of the above is no. If I'm wrong, my apologies. But since you mentioned nothing of health / temperament or anything to indicate your dog is actually has suitable conformation in your OP, or since, well, sure sounds like the beginnings of a BYB bag of river puppies to me.

Lots of 'show quality' dogs never see the ring, and lots of others don't get very far. Lots more get the big sleepy needle because of ignorant people who think their dogs are 'show quality' and should be bred, or breed for any reason other than betterment of the breed health and temperment. Frankly, it's disgusting.

That would be worked out with the female's owner.


I'm just curious because I don't really understand why male dog owners want to breed their dog. :shrug: I guess I thought that most show quality dogs show first and get to Ch then breed. :shrug:

I'm just curious because I don't really understand why male dog owners want to breed their dog. :shrug: I guess I thought that most show quality dogs show first and get to Ch then breed. :shrug:

Oh he's already got a Ch. Can't you read? He's a Chow!

:drummer:

Originally Posted by Suz
There won't be backyard breeding idiot.

She's gonna give them her bedroom.

I'm just curious because I don't really understand why male dog owners want to breed their dog. :shrug: I guess I thought that most show quality dogs show first and get to Ch then breed. :shrug:

I had a male Doberman that went out for stud a few times... But, he was a Yugoslavian import w/ his IPO3, SCH3, FR2 and had his Ch. Good healthy Dobes with a proper temperament for work are getting harder to find, so he was good stock for genetic diversity, health, and temperament improvement for US working breeders. The pups were always waitlisted and only went to owners who trained / competed for certain working dog trials. I'm proud to say he was the only dog I've ever had that was bred.

:bigwhoop:

Wow I guess we know who the ##### is now don't we?

You come on a community forum looking in advance for a ##### to stud your 'show quality' dog to, and what? You are a professional breeder?

Show quality according to who? How many conformation judges have examined your dog? Has your dog ever been in a ring? Will it stand for examination? Has it been temperament tested? Can you list the typical health problems with Chows and have you had your dog checked by a vet to be reasonably sure the dog won't pass on the genetics for Dysplaia, Entropion, Patella luxation... have you had the dog CERFed and / or OFA'd? Have you even had the hips X-rayed?

I'm guessing the answer to all of the above is no. If I'm wrong, my apologies. But since you mentioned nothing of health / temperament or anything to indicate your dog is actually has suitable conformation in your OP, or since, well, sure sounds like the beginnings of a BYB bag of river puppies to me.

Lots of 'show quality' dogs never see the ring, and lots of others don't get very far. Lots more get the big sleepy needle because of ignorant people who think their dogs are 'show quality' and should be bred, or breed for any reason other than betterment of the breed health and temperment. Frankly, it's disgusting.
:yeahthat: :high5: to Turbo and to CATT!!!! Both are very knowledgeable about breeding animals.

Im sure "Suz" has no clue!

so here is a little add on to your post Turbo... Its all on Akc.org... so she can look it up (under breeding... but since she is HAS A SHOW DOG she knows all about this)

Breeding dogs has been a passion for people through many centuries. Part art, part science, and total devotion, breeding will show you all the best in the human-and-dog bond. It is exciting and challenging.

Breeding purebred dogs is also time consuming, expensive, and, occasionally, heartbreaking. If you go forward, your underlying purpose should be to improve the breed - not just increase its numbers.

Breeding a litter should begin with knowledge. Responsible breeders devote time to learning as much as they can about their breed, about canine health and training, and about AKC rules. How can you become an expert?

Study your breed standard. This is the official version of the "perfect" breed specimen and should be the starting place for any breeder. The AKC offers breed videos with real-life examples, and many parent clubs offer more detailed, illustrated versions of their standards for more in-depth research.

Attend dog events. Watch dogs in action and study the pedigrees of those you like. Ask questions of breeders involved in your breed. Research your breed by visiting the breed’s national parent club website. Find and attend a local club meeting to meet other breeders.

Read, read, read! Your library and bookstore are invaluable sources of information about canine health and breeding. Some books, including the Complete Dog Book and American Kennel Club Dog Care and Training, are available in the AKC Store. The AKC Gazette and other dog magazines have informative articles about breeding as well.


The motto of the responsible breeder of purebred dogs is "Breed to Improve."

Every dog is the best dog in the world to its owner. Responsible breeders, however, know to avoid "kennel blindness" -- in other words, they take a step back and honestly evaluate the good and bad points of their dogs before making the decision to breed. The goal of breeding, after all, is to produce a better dog and a quality pet.

Examine your dog carefully. Recognize its flaws. If you decide to continue with the breeding process, look for a mate that will eliminate or balance those flaws. The national parent club for your breed may also provide assistance.

One of the best ways to get an objective opinion of your dog is to test it against others. Consider attending a dog show to determine how your dog measures up against the best specimens of its breed.

:yeahthat: :high5: to Turbo and to CATT!!!! Both are very knowledgeable about breeding animals.


:smooch:

I agree with everyone else. Suz, please don't breed just to breed. So many things could go wrong. Think long, hard, and thoroughly about the welfare of the litter. The pups may or may not be born healthy, and may not be able to be adopted out due to their health, lack of buyer interest, or price range. Do you have the time and energy to put into something like this if you do follow through? Do you have the money to insure the health of these pups? Does your Chow have health insurance? Do you know what kind of money this will cost you, and do you even have that kind of money? If the answer to any one of these questions is "no," then I believe you should seriously reconsider your decision. Are you doing this to make money? If the answer to that is yes, you should drop it altogether. These animals are not things to be bought and sold to improve the economy. They're our friends, not our property.

Catt is one of the most informed in this area on the board. You should listen to her and take her responses seriously instead of lashing out the way you did. She has genuine concern for the well-being of animals.

:lmao: Well, had you not deleted the thread where you said he was 6 weeks old, everyone could see that. And yeah, I'm a ##### where animals are concerned. Get laid? :lol: I'm show quality and I'm picky.



Yeah..okay.

Well here's some info for you since you WERE NOT in the truck and sharing the 16 hour drive to pick him up.......... After you posted in the last thread about the law and age thing, I followed up on it with the breeder and the state of Ohio. And made sure he was of legal age before I picked him up. I know your passionate about animals etc and I respect that, know the facts before you attack me.

:bigwhoop:

Wow I guess we know who the ##### is now don't we?

You come on a community forum looking in advance for a ##### to stud your 'show quality' dog to, and what? You are a professional breeder?

Show quality according to who? How many conformation judges have examined your dog? Has your dog ever been in a ring? Will it stand for examination? Has it been temperament tested? Can you list the typical health problems with Chows and have you had your dog checked by a vet to be reasonably sure the dog won't pass on the genetics for Dysplaia, Entropion, Patella luxation... have you had the dog CERFed and / or OFA'd? Have you even had the hips X-rayed?

I'm guessing the answer to all of the above is no. If I'm wrong, my apologies. But since you mentioned nothing of health / temperament or anything to indicate your dog is actually has suitable conformation in your OP, or since, well, sure sounds like the beginnings of a BYB bag of river puppies to me.

Lots of 'show quality' dogs never see the ring, and lots of others don't get very far. Lots more get the big sleepy needle because of ignorant people who think their dogs are 'show quality' and should be bred, or breed for any reason other than betterment of the breed health and temperment. Frankly, it's disgusting.

Good post and thanks for the info. Given the fact that I have plenty of time before he is old enough to mate, I was planning on doing a lot of research before hand.

As for show quality. It's MY OPINION, based on the ribbons, papers, trophies his parents have won and his pedigree papers, that he is of show quality. I don't plan to breed him just for $$. My intent is the same as the breeders I got him from. To promote the breed for quality, temperment and excellent health. And yes, he has been checked from head to toe by a qualified vet and will have it done again before he is bred.

She's gonna give them her bedroom.

If necessary I sure will!

:yeahthat: :high5: to Turbo and to CATT!!!! Both are very knowledgeable about breeding animals.

Im sure "Suz" has no clue!

so here is a little add on to your post Turbo... Its all on Akc.org... so she can look it up (under breeding... but since she is HAS A SHOW DOG she knows all about this)

Breeding dogs has been a passion for people through many centuries. Part art, part science, and total devotion, breeding will show you all the best in the human-and-dog bond. It is exciting and challenging.

Breeding purebred dogs is also time consuming, expensive, and, occasionally, heartbreaking. If you go forward, your underlying purpose should be to improve the breed - not just increase its numbers.

Breeding a litter should begin with knowledge. Responsible breeders devote time to learning as much as they can about their breed, about canine health and training, and about AKC rules. How can you become an expert?

Study your breed standard. This is the official version of the "perfect" breed specimen and should be the starting place for any breeder. The AKC offers breed videos with real-life examples, and many parent clubs offer more detailed, illustrated versions of their standards for more in-depth research.

Attend dog events. Watch dogs in action and study the pedigrees of those you like. Ask questions of breeders involved in your breed. Research your breed by visiting the breed’s national parent club website. Find and attend a local club meeting to meet other breeders.

Read, read, read! Your library and bookstore are invaluable sources of information about canine health and breeding. Some books, including the Complete Dog Book and American Kennel Club Dog Care and Training, are available in the AKC Store. The AKC Gazette and other dog magazines have informative articles about breeding as well.


The motto of the responsible breeder of purebred dogs is "Breed to Improve."

Every dog is the best dog in the world to its owner. Responsible breeders, however, know to avoid "kennel blindness" -- in other words, they take a step back and honestly evaluate the good and bad points of their dogs before making the decision to breed. The goal of breeding, after all, is to produce a better dog and a quality pet.

Examine your dog carefully. Recognize its flaws. If you decide to continue with the breeding process, look for a mate that will eliminate or balance those flaws. The national parent club for your breed may also provide assistance.

One of the best ways to get an objective opinion of your dog is to test it against others. Consider attending a dog show to determine how your dog measures up against the best specimens of its breed.

Another good post. Thanks.

I agree with everyone else. Suz, please don't breed just to breed. So many things could go wrong. Think long, hard, and thoroughly about the welfare of the litter. The pups may or may not be born healthy, and may not be able to be adopted out due to their health, lack of buyer interest, or price range. Do you have the time and energy to put into something like this if you do follow through? Do you have the money to insure the health of these pups? Does your Chow have health insurance? Do you know what kind of money this will cost you, and do you even have that kind of money? If the answer to any one of these questions is "no," then I believe you should seriously reconsider your decision. Are you doing this to make money? If the answer to that is yes, you should drop it altogether. These animals are not things to be bought and sold to improve the economy. They're our friends, not our property.

Catt is one of the most informed in this area on the board. You should listen to her and take her responses seriously instead of lashing out the way you did. She has genuine concern for the well-being of animals.

Thanks.

Thank you Suz for being far more civil and accepting of criticism, even if it wasn't all constructive.

Just one more thing, though... Be careful with the phrase 'show quality', or make sure to add the "in my opinion" particularly if you are posting about breeding... The reason being, for serious folk, 'show quality' equates to a statement of fact, not opinion. Lineage also does not foreshadow this, and it is often that a dog fits the breed standard but never does well showing... You don't want to make 'promises' until you know for certain.

If you pursue this, do it right and responsibly and I'll wish you best of luck!

Well here's some info for you since you WERE NOT in the truck and sharing the 16 hour drive to pick him up.......... After you posted in the last thread about the law and age thing, I followed up on it with the breeder and the state of Ohio. And made sure he was of legal age before I picked him up. I know your passionate about animals etc and I respect that, know the facts before you attack me.



I didn't attack you..I was asking you honest questions based on the previous thread and the pm's you sent saying you didn't understand the law and if I couldn't explain it any better than the chart I sent you, and you said "frankly, I'm not seeing it" and asked me to butt out. I was genuinely trying to help you because I had a bad experience with a local backyard breeder.

I didn't get personal or nasty in this thread.

The breeder was willing to sell/ship him at 6 weeks which in my mind is a red flag. Another red flag to me is that the breeder is allowing you to pick the biatch. Good breeders usually keep tight control on their "lines" and show quality pups are often co-owned and others are sold with spay/neuter agreements and you don't get the registration papers until proof of spay/neuter has been given to the breeder.

Just because you think he's show quality doesn't really mean much. He may come from good stock but that doesn't mean he is show quality.

This is informative...

One of the most important parts of your education is learning what the “breed standard” means. Each AKC-recognized breed has a written standard of perfection. It describes what that breed should look, move and act like. Serious breeders constantly measure, test and compare against this standard before deciding whether their chosen dog is good enough to breed. They show their dogs in order to compare them with others of high quality. Standards aren’t easily understood in one reading. It takes study and exposure to hundreds of dogs before you can really see why certain characteristics are important and whether or not your dog has them to such a degree that breeding it would improve the overall quality of the entire breed. That’s the real goal of serious dog breeding and the ONLY reason to breed any dog - to produce animals that are exceptional in appearance, health, temperament and trainability.

It can take years to gain this kind of knowledge and along the way, you might learn that the dog you have is a fine pet, but not good breeding stock. If so, you’re in good company. Some of today’s most successful breeders began by finding out the same thing. They discovered that getting a dog of suitable quality meant a serious financial commitment and a lifetime of dedication to do their very best even though there would be no real monetary reward for their effort.


Should I Breed My Dog? (http://www.chowwelfare.com/cciw/breeddog.htm)


Before you breed your dog, please consider some important facts: Chow Chows aren't rare any more. During the 1980's, as many as 50,000 Chow puppies a year were registered by the AKC. This is about half of all Chows born during that time, the height of the breed's recent popularity. For awhile, Chows were one of the most popular breeds in the country and puppies were easy to sell. But the public is fickle and fads pass quickly. The Chow isn't the "in" breed to have anymore and puppies are becoming hard to sell at any price. Chow Rescue groups all around the country have been overrun with abused, neglected and abandoned Chows in need of permanent, loving homes. In the past few years, more Chows have been "dumped" by their owners than ever before. Many of them come from what you might consider to be "good" homes.

Chow Chow Welfare: Should I Breed My Chow Chow? (http://www.chowwelfare.com/cciw/breedmy.htm)


Good luck.

[QUOTE=Suz;3988081]Well here's some info for you since you WERE NOT in the truck and sharing the 16 hour drive to pick him up.......... After you posted in the last thread about the law and age thing, I followed up on it with the breeder and the state of Ohio. And made sure he was of legal age before I picked him up. I know your passionate about animals etc and I respect that, know the facts before you attack me.



Good post and thanks for the info. Given the fact that I have plenty of time before he is old enough to mate, I was planning on doing a lot of research before hand.

As for show quality. It's MY OPINION, based on the ribbons, papers, trophies his parents have won and his pedigree papers, that he is of show quality. I don't plan to breed him just for $$. My intent is the same as the breeders I got him from. To promote the breed for quality, temperment and excellent health. And yes, he has been checked from head to toe by a qualified vet and will have it done again before he is bred.

QUOTE]

So by the sounds of it you are going to take responsibility and take him on the show circuit around the East Coast? Have you taken a handlers course? Or do you plan on hiring a professional handler for your dog?

How old is he now? Have you started to work with him in the ring? Working on his stand, his gait, how he handles touch by another person, getting groomed?

The official OFA cert does not come till around 2yrs for the hips and elbows but you should get them done once before then to get an idea of where you stand. You really need to talk to your vet about it because some do not do them because OFA tends to be very picky about the xrays. Most time the dogs need to be sedated to get proper xrays because the technique is what produces good xrays. (tends to be uncomfortable for the dog)

:cds::cds::cds:

Didn't I just see you post something about having been involved in rescue for many years yet in this thread you admit to buying a dog from a back yard breeder? Double standard much?

Of course, in Suz's defense, let me point out that many of the problems facing pure breed dogs today are due to narrowing of the genetic pool, and this is mainly due to the fact that breeders gravitate toward a select few award winning dogs and their bloodlines.

For instance, as of today, some breeds, pugs and Boston Terriers most notably, have a scant few "unique genetic individuals" being that the majority of dogs in these breeds are derived from a limited number of bloodlines. The result is fixing of unwanted traits, such as certain health problems.

Notably the issue is more prevalent in toy and non-sporting / working breeds, because conformation is typically the only barometer of breeding worthiness.

I'm not advocating willy-nilly breeding, mind you. Just pointing out that the show ring as a breeding tool has it's own pitfalls.

I'll stop short of advocating for the opening of stud books :evil:

Didn't I just see you post something about having been involved in rescue for many years yet in this thread you admit to buying a dog from a back yard breeder? Double standard much?

Yes, I rescue and I have purchased dogs. What's your point?

Yes, I rescue and I have purchased dogs.What's your point?

hypocrite, or at least that would be my guess as to the point trying to be made.......

Yes, I rescue and I have purchased dogs. What's your point?

Not only do you purchase dogs but you admittedly purchase dogs from back yard breeders. :killingme

hypocrite, or at least that would be my guess as to the point trying to be made.......

I thought the "Double standard much?" covered it nicely. I wasn't going to repeat myself. :killingme

Not only do you purchase dogs but you admittedly purchase dogs from back yard breeders. :killingme

Yes, I purchased from someone that I mistakenly trusted, a forum member, who assured me her dogs were healthy.

Your user ID is clearly a dig at me. Why don't you come out from behind your MPD? Until then, you can play your games without my participation.

Thank you Suz for being far more civil and accepting of criticism, even if it wasn't all constructive.

Just one more thing, though... Be careful with the phrase 'show quality', or make sure to add the "in my opinion" particularly if you are posting about breeding... The reason being, for serious folk, 'show quality' equates to a statement of fact, not opinion. Lineage also does not foreshadow this, and it is often that a dog fits the breed standard but never does well showing... You don't want to make 'promises' until you know for certain.

If you pursue this, do it right and responsibly and I'll wish you best of luck!

Thank you! I was not aware of this and will refrain from using it.

I didn't attack you..I was asking you honest questions based on the previous thread and the pm's you sent saying you didn't understand the law and if I couldn't explain it any better than the chart I sent you, and you said "frankly, I'm not seeing it" and asked me to butt out. I was genuinely trying to help you because I had a bad experience with a local backyard breeder.

I didn't get personal or nasty in this thread.

The breeder was willing to sell/ship him at 6 weeks which in my mind is a red flag. Another red flag to me is that the breeder is allowing you to pick the biatch. Good breeders usually keep tight control on their "lines" and show quality pups are often co-owned and others are sold with spay/neuter agreements and you don't get the registration papers until proof of spay/neuter has been given to the breeder.

Just because you think he's show quality doesn't really mean much. He may come from good stock but that doesn't mean he is show quality.

This is informative...

One of the most important parts of your education is learning what the “breed standard” means. Each AKC-recognized breed has a written standard of perfection. It describes what that breed should look, move and act like. Serious breeders constantly measure, test and compare against this standard before deciding whether their chosen dog is good enough to breed. They show their dogs in order to compare them with others of high quality. Standards aren’t easily understood in one reading. It takes study and exposure to hundreds of dogs before you can really see why certain characteristics are important and whether or not your dog has them to such a degree that breeding it would improve the overall quality of the entire breed. That’s the real goal of serious dog breeding and the ONLY reason to breed any dog - to produce animals that are exceptional in appearance, health, temperament and trainability.

It can take years to gain this kind of knowledge and along the way, you might learn that the dog you have is a fine pet, but not good breeding stock. If so, you’re in good company. Some of today’s most successful breeders began by finding out the same thing. They discovered that getting a dog of suitable quality meant a serious financial commitment and a lifetime of dedication to do their very best even though there would be no real monetary reward for their effort.


Should I Breed My Dog? (http://www.chowwelfare.com/cciw/breeddog.htm)


Before you breed your dog, please consider some important facts: Chow Chows aren't rare any more. During the 1980's, as many as 50,000 Chow puppies a year were registered by the AKC. This is about half of all Chows born during that time, the height of the breed's recent popularity. For awhile, Chows were one of the most popular breeds in the country and puppies were easy to sell. But the public is fickle and fads pass quickly. The Chow isn't the "in" breed to have anymore and puppies are becoming hard to sell at any price. Chow Rescue groups all around the country have been overrun with abused, neglected and abandoned Chows in need of permanent, loving homes. In the past few years, more Chows have been "dumped" by their owners than ever before. Many of them come from what you might consider to be "good" homes.

Chow Chow Welfare: Should I Breed My Chow Chow? (http://www.chowwelfare.com/cciw/breedmy.htm)


Good luck.

Again, good info. Thanks! And i do apologize for earlier.

[quote=Suz;3988081]Well here's some info for you since you WERE NOT in the truck and sharing the 16 hour drive to pick him up.......... After you posted in the last thread about the law and age thing, I followed up on it with the breeder and the state of Ohio. And made sure he was of legal age before I picked him up. I know your passionate about animals etc and I respect that, know the facts before you attack me.



Good post and thanks for the info. Given the fact that I have plenty of time before he is old enough to mate, I was planning on doing a lot of research before hand.

As for show quality. It's MY OPINION, based on the ribbons, papers, trophies his parents have won and his pedigree papers, that he is of show quality. I don't plan to breed him just for $$. My intent is the same as the breeders I got him from. To promote the breed for quality, temperment and excellent health. And yes, he has been checked from head to toe by a qualified vet and will have it done again before he is bred.

QUOTE]

So by the sounds of it you are going to take responsibility and take him on the show circuit around the East Coast? Have you taken a handlers course? Or do you plan on hiring a professional handler for your dog?

How old is he now? Have you started to work with him in the ring? Working on his stand, his gait, how he handles touch by another person, getting groomed?

The official OFA cert does not come till around 2yrs for the hips and elbows but you should get them done once before then to get an idea of where you stand. You really need to talk to your vet about it because some do not do them because OFA tends to be very picky about the xrays. Most time the dogs need to be sedated to get proper xrays because the technique is what produces good xrays. (tends to be uncomfortable for the dog)

More good info! But I don't plan on showing him. Apparently, I was using terminology I shouldn't have.

Now all of you, the pictures are old, but still, isn't he gorgeous? And when have you ever seen a cream Chow? Until now, I never had although I knew they were out there. He really is gorgeous. He's more white with cream on his 4 legs, his face and ears, down the middle of his back and the very tip of his tail. He's a love bug and is doing quite well with his training. Yes, we dropped out of the class, but I bought a book to replace the class.

And as I learn more about breeding him, I may even change my mind about it. :shrug:

hypocrite, or at least that would be my guess as to the point trying to be made.......

So whats your point? I have also rescued one of my dogs and I did purchase my last dog for a specific reason.... NOT TO BREED. No intention on breeding and all of my dogs are fixed!

I think there is a time to rescue dogs and a time/reason to purchase dogs from preferable reputable breeders. I did a lot of research on my breeder and she did the same for me as well.

But to go get a dog from a breeder and then decide ... well I think I want to breed this dog because it looks to be show quality... not a great reason.
I dont think Catt has ever made mention to breeding her dogs? :shrug:

Now all of you, the pictures are old, but still, isn't he gorgeous? And when have you ever seen a cream Chow? Until now, I never had although I knew they were out there. He really is gorgeous. He's more white with cream on his 4 legs, his face and ears, down the middle of his back and the very tip of his tail. He's a love bug and is doing quite well with his training. Yes, we dropped out of the class, but I bought a book to replace the class.

And as I learn more about breeding him, I may even change my mind about it. :shrug:


Well, he's definitely fluffy and cute. But, me, I'm a Dobe lover, so what the heck do I know about poofy dogs? :roflmao:

[QUOTE=ICit;3988286]
I think there is a time to rescue dogs and a time/reason to purchase dogs from preferable reputable breeders. I did a lot of research on my breeder and she did the same for me as well.
QUOTE]

Oh definitley agree. If I ever get serious about competing again, I'll look at rescues, but more than likely will buy an import so that I can be more sure of suitability for the field. I got lucky with Caber, he was awesome, but it was hard work at first. Eric, he was awesome out of the box, popped out of the womb ready to take to the field, LOL.

So whats your point? I have also rescued one of my dogs and I did purchase my last dog for a specific reason.... NOT TO BREED. No intention on breeding and all of my dogs are fixed!

I think there is a time to rescue dogs and a time/reason to purchase dogs from preferable reputable breeders. I did a lot of research on my breeder and she did the same for me as well.

But to go get a dog from a breeder and then decide ... well I think I want to breed this dog because it looks to be show quality... not a great reason.
I dont think Catt has ever made mention to breeding her dogs? :shrug:

i was explaining the other posters point to catt b/c she wanted to pretend she was oblivious.

as for breeding, it should be up to the individual. if they are willing to take the responsibility then they can do what they want. NOWHERE did i see the original poster say she planed on doing anything other than being responsible.
You folks just like to attack people who don't share your opinion about breeding, even if you are guilty of similar indiscretions (and that is where the hypocrite comments come in)

Thank you! I was not aware of this and will refrain from using it.



Again, good info. Thanks! And i do apologize for earlier.

[quote=ICit;3988157]

More good info! But I don't plan on showing him. Apparently, I was using terminology I shouldn't have.

Now all of you, the pictures are old, but still, isn't he gorgeous? And when have you ever seen a cream Chow? Until now, I never had although I knew they were out there. He really is gorgeous. He's more white with cream on his 4 legs, his face and ears, down the middle of his back and the very tip of his tail. He's a love bug and is doing quite well with his training. Yes, we dropped out of the class, but I bought a book to replace the class.

And as I learn more about breeding him, I may even change my mind about it. :shrug:

If you dont plan on showing him and getting a CH. on him then he is just like a dog from the pound ... all you are doing is putting puppies on the earth. Thats the whole thing about breeders busting their butts in the show ring.... trying to better the breed... what do the judges think... Does the breed stand up to its standards? You will be like "the rest of them". Sorry but you should really take it more serious. The sooner you make the decision the better shape your pup will be in for his life in the future. Such as getting neutered and cutting down the chance of testicular cancer and prostate cancer. :shrug:

i was explaining the other posters point to catt b/c she wanted to pretend she was oblivious.

as for breeding, it should be up to the individual. if they are willing to take the responsibility then they can do what they want. NOWHERE did i see the original poster say she planed on doing anything other than being responsible.
You folks just like to attack people who don't share your opinion about breeding, even if you are guilty of similar indiscretions (and that is where the hypocrite comments come in)

:lol:

I've never bred any dog that I have owned (or cat for that matter). I didn't attack anyone.

You just like to argue. :yay:

:lol:

I've never bred any dog that I have owned (or cat for that matter). I didn't attack anyone.

You just like to argue. :yay:

and you obviously have reading comprehension problems. i didn't say you bred your dogs or cats.

in fact, i didn't say YOU attacked anyone. i mearly pointed out that you were pretending to be oblivious to the other persons point.

:crazy: like ape shiat!

i was explaining the other posters point to catt b/c she wanted to pretend she was oblivious.

as for breeding, it should be up to the individual. if they are willing to take the responsibility then they can do what they want. NOWHERE did i see the original poster say she planed on doing anything other than being responsible.
You folks just like to attack people who don't share your opinion about breeding, even if you are guilty of similar indiscretions (and that is where the hypocrite comments come in)

I purchased a dog to be a working dog.... not all rescue dogs have the will, the drive, desire to "work". I got lucky with my first bloodhound I rescued... pretty sure I was not going to get lucky the second time. I wanted to start from a pup and develop that relationship and is crucial to a "team" - Handler/K-9. She was spayed at 9 months! That was in my contract... OH noooooo I didnt want to breed. If I want a pet... I would rescue a dog in a heartbeat.... but right now I only have room for dogs that want a working career. So I dont see that as a hypocrite on my part.

As for her being responsible???? She should have known about all the Certs she needed on her dog to be a "good" breeder. Things she should be doing with the dog, that she should not breed the dog before he was 2 years of age.... she seemed not to have known none of this. I hope it opens her eyes that its not what she thought of. Chows have lots of health issues... hope its not passed on if there are any.

I purchased a dog to be a working dog.... not all rescue dogs have the will, the drive, desire to "work". I got lucky with my first bloodhound I rescued... pretty sure I was not going to get lucky the second time. I wanted to start from a pup and develop that relationship and is crucial to a "team" - Handler/K-9. She was spayed at 9 months! That was in my contract... OH noooooo I didnt want to breed. If I want a pet... I would rescue a dog in a heartbeat.... but right now I only have room for dogs that want a working career. So I dont see that as a hypocrite on my part.

As for her being responsible???? She should have known about all the Certs she needed on her dog to be a "good" breeder. Things she should be doing with the dog, that she should not breed the dog before he was 2 years of age.... she seemed not to have known none of this. I hope it opens her eyes that its not what she thought of. Chows have lots of health issues... hope its not passed on if there are any.


so i guess you think you have a corner on defining "being responsible" :killingme

so i guess you think you have a corner on defining "being responsible" :killingme

Im not putting useless pups in the world. And have no plans to do so.
So you think the police use dogs from the pounds? NO those dogs are breed to do a job... drive is what they look for in the pups. Very few pound, or rescue dogs can handle the working life. Its two different worlds... too bad you dont understand that.

Im not putting useless pups in the world. And have no plans to do so.
So you think the police use dogs from the pounds? NO those dogs are breed to do a job... drive is what they look for in the pups. Very few pound, or rescue dogs can handle the working life. Its two different worlds... too bad you dont understand that.

ok, your rant had nothing to do with the post you were responding to.....
i guess you lack the ability to comprehend what you read as well

i have never said that anyone should or shouldn't breed a dog or any animal for that matter. If the person doing the breeding is going to be responsibile for the outcome then it is their decision alone, they certainly dont need any help from the buttinski crowd.

breeding because you love the breed is one thing..but bredding for JUST profit is a true shame !!! JMO...thanks !

Yes, I purchased from someone that I mistakenly trusted, a forum member, who assured me her dogs were healthy.

Your user ID is clearly a dig at me. Why don't you come out from behind your MPD? Until then, you can play your games without my participation.

Full of yourself much? It was actually a drunken observation about my cats balls but if you want to think its about you go right ahead. :killingme

Against MY wishes my (now) Ex decided we were buying a German Bred Rottweiler locally - ok so she was a NICE dog but the contract stated not only did we HAVE to breed her, we had to use the stud of the breeders choice. The breeder was into "line breeding". So 2 years later I find myself taking care of puppies that I did NOT want - AND the breeder was to get the pick of the litter (that ole contract). I did not like any of it but my Ex wasn't INTO rescue like I was.

We kept one of the pups and he was awesome. During his life my Ex wanted to let him breed so bad, yet I was opposed to it and would not agree. He was NOT breed standard - he was gigantic at over 150 lbs. Great dog, then he turned 7 and got sick. $900 later we knew he was dying of Pancreatic Cancer and had to put him out out of his misery. I loved that dog so much but I was embarrassed to admit that I participated in the breeding process knowing how many dogs die in shelters. So ...... I contacted a Rottie Rescue named Roxie's Fund and adopted Quinn. I think I was trying to "make up" for the breeding stuff and he was my special angel.

So people should not be so quick to judge someone who BUYS a pet. There are many things that can lead one to BUY a pet and it doesn't necessarily make them bad. If you want a high quality breed you sometimes do need to buy one.

I have a friend who did Rottie showing/breeding in the past. She has always taken in rescues from the shelter to compensate for her breeding for show. I think that balances it out pretty well that way.


Thank you! I was not aware of this and will refrain from using it.



Again, good info. Thanks! And i do apologize for earlier.

[quote=ICit;3988157]

More good info! But I don't plan on showing him. Apparently, I was using terminology I shouldn't have.

Now all of you, the pictures are old, but still, isn't he gorgeous? And when have you ever seen a cream Chow? Until now, I never had although I knew they were out there. He really is gorgeous. He's more white with cream on his 4 legs, his face and ears, down the middle of his back and the very tip of his tail. He's a love bug and is doing quite well with his training. Yes, we dropped out of the class, but I bought a book to replace the class.

And as I learn more about breeding him, I may even change my mind about it. :shrug:

Against MY wishes my (now) Ex decided we were buying a German Bred Rottweiler locally - ok so she was a NICE dog but the contract stated not only did we HAVE to breed her, we had to use the stud of the breeders choice. The breeder was into "line breeding". So 2 years later I find myself taking care of puppies that I did NOT want - AND the breeder was to get the pick of the litter (that ole contract). I did not like any of it but my Ex wasn't INTO rescue like I was.

We kept one of the pups and he was awesome. During his life my Ex wanted to let him breed so bad, yet I was opposed to it and would not agree. He was NOT breed standard - he was gigantic at over 150 lbs. Great dog, then he turned 7 and got sick. $900 later we knew he was dying of Pancreatic Cancer and had to put him out out of his misery. I loved that dog so much but I was embarrassed to admit that I participated in the breeding process knowing how many dogs die in shelters. So ...... I contacted a Rottie Rescue named Roxie's Fund and adopted Quinn. I think I was trying to "make up" for the breeding stuff and he was my special angel.

So people should not be so quick to judge someone who BUYS a pet. There are many things that can lead one to BUY a pet and it doesn't necessarily make them bad. If you want a high quality breed you sometimes do need to buy one.

I have a friend who did Rottie showing/breeding in the past. She has always taken in rescues from the shelter to compensate for her breeding for show. I think that balances it out pretty well that way.


[quote=Suz;3988272]Thank you! I was not aware of this and will refrain from using it.



Again, good info. Thanks! And i do apologize for earlier.

I guess the boards have been so boring some excitement was needed. :killingme OK I once again provided it. Glad to be of service! But the WHOLE intent of this thread was about my 4 month old dog and his habit's at 6 pm every night. Obviously, that was not made clear. Sorry. And it can be embarrassing.

FYI ALL, all of our previous chows (4) while all were males, we had them neutered at the appropriate age, or they came to us that way. Just to point out to some of you, WE are not the inexperienced Chow owner.

I learned a lot about breeding etc from this thread. I'll continue to learn. And as I said in my last post, who knows, I may decide not to do so.

And yes, WE paid a large sum for Bogart. Because we did not want a 'back yard bred' dog.

Enough said peeps lets all just play nice.

This is when the closing of Rosies really hits hard.

I guess the boards have been so boring some excitement was needed. :killingme OK I once again provided it. Glad to be of service! But the WHOLE intent of this thread was about my 4 month old dog and his habit's at 6 pm every night. Obviously, that was not made clear. Sorry. And it can be embarrassing.

FYI ALL, all of our previous chows (4) while all were males, we had them neutered at the appropriate age, or they came to us that way. Just to point out to some of you, WE are not the inexperienced Chow owner.

I learned a lot about breeding etc from this thread. I'll continue to learn. And as I said in my last post, who knows, I may decide not to do so.

And yes, WE paid a large sum for Bogart. Because we did not want a 'back yard bred' dog.

Enough said peeps lets all just play nice.

Your whole intent of this thread seems to be about you wanting to stud out your 4-month-old Chow because you think he is show quality and has nice colored fur and you have not seen too many Cream-colored Chows in the area. :Ohandpaidalargesumforhim: You have no idea about breed standards of a Chow and no idea what Show Quality means except that his parents may have been :becausethebreedertoldyouso: You do not intend to show said puppy to see what he is capable of.

You dropped out of obedience training because you did not like the teacher and bought a book to help train a seriously willful breed that you say you have experience in with previous Chow ownership.

All of this because of his humping habit that you are embarrassed by.

Did I miss anything? :buddies:

.

Now all of you, the pictures are old, but still, isn't he gorgeous? And when have you ever seen a cream Chow? Until now, I never had although I knew they were out there. He really is gorgeous. He's more white with cream on his 4 legs, his face and ears, down the middle of his back and the very tip of his tail. He's a love bug and is doing quite well with his training. Yes, we dropped out of the class, but I bought a book to replace the class.



eh, he's ok... :whistle:

I must say that you didn't give the instructor a chance anymore than he gave your dog a chance and by the way...the class is great!

And yes, WE paid a large sum for Bogart. Because we did not want a 'back yard bred' dog.

Enough said peeps lets all just play nice.

I wish you luck Suz.

BUT..remember..there are tons of "internet" breeders that charge big bucks for dogs just because people will pay for them thinking that the price is an indication of how "good" the dog is. Good breeders don't need to advertise their dogs on the internet, they don't breed many litters and generally have waiting lists for their pups. Puppy mills are the worst offenders for charging large sums of money for sick and poorly breed puppies.

Check out the Puppy Find link. Puppies for Sale, Dogs for Sale and Dog Breeders (http://www.puppyfind.com/)

I wish you luck Suz.

BUT..remember..there are tons of "internet" breeders that charge big bucks for dogs just because people will pay for them thinking that the price is an indication of how "good" the dog is. Good breeders don't need to advertise their dogs on the internet, they don't breed many litters and generally have waiting lists for their pups. Puppy mills are the worst offenders for charging large sums of money for sick and poorly breed puppies.

Check out the Puppy Find link. Puppies for Sale, Dogs for Sale and Dog Breeders (http://www.puppyfind.com/)
:yeahthat:

some peeps just will never get it. I have a guy I work with that has a lab (not AKC or anything) and want to breeder her. :faint:

:yeahthat:

some peeps just will never get it. I have a guy I work with that has a lab (not AKC or anything) and want to breeder her. :faint:

because we all know that the only dogs of value are registered and everybody hates a lab :killingme

because we all know that the only dogs of value are registered and everybody hates a lab :killingme

Too bad that was sarcasm. Dogs in the US would be a lot better off if our breeding programs followed in the footsteps of the German breeders. They have to basically prove the dog is capable of performing it's traditional job, and tend to also insist on a CH. They police themselves, it's not a law... Here, we breed willy nilly without any thought as to health, temperament, or ability... the latter of course being sort of moot in the case of many breeds such as a Peke... But anyway, how many Labs in the US do you think ever field trial or title as bird dogs? There is a reason that many working dog folk won't buy a US bred dog... the European dogs simply do better. Sad.

I've got a friend up in Maine who has been entering Dock Dog trials with his APBT, and they just took 2nd in the finals for speed retrieve a couple weeks ago... Good for the APBT, but doesn't say much for the Labs, LOL.

Cardio Myiopa, Von Willonbrands, Wobblers Syndrome... genetic diseases common in the Dobermann. In the 70's and early 80's they were a very popular dog, so people started buying and breeding them just to make a buck. All the ignorant fools did was line breed to the point where genetic traits became 'fixed' and for all intensive purposes, part of the DObermann 'type'. Same thing has happened to most of the small breeds, the Dalmation, the GSD, the Rott... almost every breed that has ever had a semblance of popularity is predisposed to genetic conditions that were rare 50 years ago. It's because of such that Suz got jumped. People need to be educated, dissuaded from breeding at least until they have taken the time to learn how to avoid making such mistakes, and learned how to do it in a manner to contribute to the health, not detriment, of a breed. There's a lot more science and knowledge that goes into it than most people know. Heck, I don't even thin AKC or titling is enough, I'd like to see people learn about genetics first, color dilution, trait morphism, etc. but I now that's asking a bit much.

I am amazed at the people who have actually stopped me and asked if I want to breed my boxer not knowing anything about his history. Now my boy comes from champion stock. He has even won blue ribbons in the 18-month old boxer puppy class. I knew then that he was beautiful but as he matured from there he did not grow big enough to meet the breed standards. He was neutered immediately. 3.5 years later he has terminal cancer, I can't imagine what I would feel if I had allowed him to stud and possibly pass on the cancer gene to the puppies. Please leave the breeding to people that actually work to better the breeds. There are already so many inherent health issues in pure bred dogs. The goal is to better the breed not to make more "show quality" puppies.

You know, if I ever decide to get a dog (which is highly unlikely) I will NEVER tell you guys about it. Any advice you all might give wouldn't be worth being scrutinized by the Pet Police.

You know, if I ever decide to get a dog (which is highly unlikely) I will NEVER tell you guys about it. Any advice you all might give wouldn't be worth being scrutinized by the Pet Police.

Is that your new word for Pet Nazi :lmao:

You know, if I ever decide to get a dog (which is highly unlikely) I will NEVER tell you guys about it. Any advice you all might give wouldn't be worth being scrutinized by the Pet Police.

You need a pet like Rowdy...

because we all know that the only dogs of value are registered and everybody hates a lab :killingme
so you took what I was saying wrong. It has nothing to do with value of the dog. I know many dogs reg. that are so poorly breed and with so many health issues due to over breeding because of ignorance.

That is the point... he was not educated of the health issues the dogs could have and pass on because of poor breeding. Labs are close to the number one dogs that get turned into rescues because of over breeding, and family not understanding the breed they have decided on.

Most people think its as simple as just letting the dog get prego, have pups, and they are easy to get rid of. I know someone right now who "accidently" had a litter of pup and the female passed away a week after having a litter of 8-9 pups. WOW NEWS FLASH.... now you have to bottle feed them every two hours and play mom. They are making due but has been very hard adjustment on the family. He has said he will never go thru that again and will make sure it does not happen again. He is finding out that its not cheap, and its not going to be easy to place the puppies.


Genetics is a crazy thing.... even the well breed dogs are not guaranteed free of health issues but careful breeding cuts down on it. Its common sense :shrug:

You know, if I ever decide to get a dog (which is highly unlikely) I will NEVER tell you guys about it. Any advice you all might give wouldn't be worth being scrutinized by the Pet Police.

Team SOMD Pet Police. Let's make a movie!

It saddens me to read this entire thread. The humane's society has a ton of pets that are looking for homes.

You need a pet like Rowdy...

Too young for me.

But the dog's cute.

You need a pet like Rowdy...

Is that the Major's dog from SOAP. :killingme

It saddens me to read this entire thread. The humane's society has a ton of pets that are looking for homes.

But not everyone wants a shelter dog. Some people want a particular breed, that fits into their lifestyle and circumstances.

so you took what I was saying wrong. It has nothing to do with value of the dog. I know many dogs reg. that are so poorly breed and with so many health issues due to over breeding because of ignorance.

That is the point... he was not educated of the health issues the dogs could have and pass on because of poor breeding. Labs are close to the number one dogs that get turned into rescues because of over breeding, and family not understanding the breed they have decided on.

Most people think its as simple as just letting the dog get prego, have pups, and they are easy to get rid of. I know someone right now who "accidently" had a litter of pup and the female passed away a week after having a litter of 8-9 pups. WOW NEWS FLASH.... now you have to bottle feed them every two hours and play mom. They are making due but has been very hard adjustment on the family. He has said he will never go thru that again and will make sure it does not happen again. He is finding out that its not cheap, and its not going to be easy to place the puppies.


Genetics is a crazy thing.... even the well breed dogs are not guaranteed free of health issues but careful breeding cuts down on it. Its common sense :shrug:

thats just retarded, the reason we have the pelthora of dog types today is because of "mixed" breeding, and many of the health issues we see in pure breeds is directly related to poor breeding practices and limited gene pools.

my mutts have been some of the best and healthiest dogs i have ever owned, and the one i got as "pick of the litter" when my sister bred her stud is one of 11 pups that all found paying customers that are completely in love with their designer mutts.

Too young for me.

But the dog's cute.
Not Zach, the dog. :lol:
Is that the Major's dog from SOAP. :killingme
Not sure if it is the same dog, but he did visit Mr. Stuff-It. :lmao:

Of course, in Suz's defense, let me point out that many of the problems facing pure breed dogs today are due to narrowing of the genetic pool, and this is mainly due to the fact that breeders gravitate toward a select few award winning dogs and their bloodlines.

Not at all a proper intro, but I wanted to jump in on Turbo's comment. She hit the nail on the head here. We were stationed in Germany for the last 3 years and I desperately wanted to buy some beautiful dogs from a couple of different breeds and bring them back to add some diversity to the genetics.

However, the German breeders are very hesitant to sell to Americans bacause of our indiscriminate breeding practices and the immense stray population we have. Oh, and my beloved husband said no way to the fees (you know: vet checks, verify heritage, pet passports - yep pets have to have them in Europe to travel around, flight costs when we moved back, American vet checks, and all the other necessary needs).

Unfortunately we are no doggie-less since March and I miss my girlie! But that's another story.

OK, back to lurking. :whistle:

Dawn

But not everyone wants a shelter dog. Some people want a particular breed, that fits into their lifestyle and circumstances.

True, but everyone deserves a chance.

Not at all a proper intro, but I wanted to jump in on Turbo's comment. She hit the nail on the head here. We were stationed in Germany for the last 3 years and I desperately wanted to buy some beautiful dogs from a couple of different breeds and bring them back to add some diversity to the genetics.

However, the German breeders are very hesitant to sell to Americans bacause of our indiscriminate breeding practices and the immense stray population we have. Oh, and my beloved husband said no way to the fees (you know: vet checks, verify heritage, pet passports - yep pets have to have them in Europe to travel around, flight costs when we moved back, American vet checks, and all the other necessary needs).

Unfortunately we are no doggie-less since March and I miss my girlie! But that's another story.

OK, back to lurking. :whistle:

Dawn

I think Turbo is a :gossip:

I think Turbo is a :gossip:

Yes, I'm an a-hole. More importantly hoever, I'm a he. :killingme

True, but everyone deserves a chance.

Why do you feel that way?

But not everyone wants a shelter dog. Some people want a particular breed, that fits into their lifestyle and circumstances.

Yep! I grew up only ever having and loving on mutts, but I married a man with allergies and wanting to give my kids the experience of growing up with dogs in the house, I researched breeds and chose to go with mini-schnauzers... perfect breed for us!

Yes, I'm an a-hole. More importantly hoever, I'm a he. :killingme

I know you are of the male species :whistle:

What I said : I think Turbo is a :gossip:

Now, had I said I think Turbo is AN :gossip: it might have been logical to assume I meant A$$hole.

I know you are of the male species :whistle:



Has he been neutered?








:lmao:

Has he been neutered?





:lmao:


That, I don't know!

thats just retarded, the reason we have the pelthora of dog types today is because of "mixed" breeding, and many of the health issues we see in pure breeds is directly related to poor breeding practices and limited gene pools.

my mutts have been some of the best and healthiest dogs i have ever owned, and the one i got as "pick of the litter" when my sister bred her stud is one of 11 pups that all found paying customers that are completely in love with their designer mutts.

:blahblah: Close but no cigar! The breeds we have today are the result of careful, planned breeding in order to create a dog for a certain job, look, etc. Breeds are not the result of random breeding, they are the result of breeding for specific traits, and careful planning to fix those traits genetically.

Each breed, as opposed to mix or mutt, if mated to one of it's own breed, will have pups that fit the breed type, IE two GSD's that meet the breed standard will result in pups that are unmistakably GSDs. However, if you mate a GSD and a Beagle, all the puppies will be different proportions of each, and if they mate, people will be scratching their heads trying to figure out what's in them... How will you know which will likely be good at ground scent and game tracking, and which will be good for LEO work and chem/LHS detection? Chances are, none of the pups will excel at either. Try taking a LabXGSD and getting a Mondioring title, without having your first 100 attempts resulting in your dog blowing his anal glands in fear and running off the field.

Too many people have forgotten that dogs once not only mooched off of us, but actually contributed their part. Dogs had jobs once upon a time. This is why they were bred for type, why we have dogs like the GSD, Doberman, American Bulldog, Greyhound, Lab, Chessie, Aussie, Border Collie, Chihuahua, JRT... They were bred the way they were so they would excel at specific jobs.

Now we breed purely for aesthetics. Schnoodles? Labradoodles? Puggles? WTF!!! If you want a hypoallergenic dog just get a damned Poodle, they already come in a variety of sizes!! Heck the 'designer' breeds aren't even breeds, because they have no genetic type. What can they do, other than not make you sneeze? Can they hunt? Man track? Herd? Guard? Handler protection? Pull sleds? And can they do so better than established breeds?

Designer 'breeds' only exist to fill wallets. Notice they all have cutesie names? Other than that, they have no purpose. Soon enough, they will fall prey to the same problems as every other breed, once they have been inbred enough or fade from popularity. Then I guess it's one to the next...

As far as limited gene pools being reason to purposefully breed mutts, that's bunk. All that needs to be done is to open lines, diversify by bringing in blood from other parts of the world. You can accomplish the same thing by making the effort to bring a GSD in from Yugoslavia to add to your GSD breeding program as you would by breeding in a Golden Retreiver. The issue of limited genetic individuals only exists in the U.S. , with exception of a very few toy breeds.

Bleh my fingers must be tired I'm typo-ing a lot!

I know you are of the male species :whistle:

What I said : I think Turbo is a :gossip:

Now, had I said I think Turbo is AN :gossip: it might have been logical to assume I meant A$$hole.

Cool! Finally a person who didn't immediately know I was an a-hole too, LOL!

Sorry, just being silly!:howdy:

Has he been neutered?

:lmao:

No, but I think he's been tutored!

:blahblah: Close but no cigar! The breeds we have today are the result of careful, planned breeding in order to create a dog for a certain job, look, etc. Breeds are not the result of random breeding, they are the result of breeding for specific traits, and careful planning to fix those traits genetically.

Each breed, as opposed to mix or mutt, if mated to one of it's own breed, will have pups that fit the breed type, IE two GSD's that meet the breed standard will result in pups that are unmistakably GSDs. However, if you mate a GSD and a Beagle, all the puppies will be different proportions of each, and if they mate, people will be scratching their heads trying to figure out what's in them... How will you know which will likely be good at ground scent and game tracking, and which will be good for LEO work and chem/LHS detection? Chances are, none of the pups will excel at either. Try taking a LabXGSD and getting a Mondioring title, without having your first 100 attempts resulting in your dog blowing his anal glands in fear and running off the field.

Too many people have forgotten that dogs once not only mooched off of us, but actually contributed their part. Dogs had jobs once upon a time. This is why they were bred for type, why we have dogs like the GSD, Doberman, American Bulldog, Greyhound, Lab, Chessie, Aussie, Border Collie, Chihuahua, JRT... They were bred the way they were so they would excel at specific jobs.

Now we breed purely for aesthetics. Schnoodles? Labradoodles? Puggles? WTF!!! If you want a hypoallergenic dog just get a damned Poodle, they already come in a variety of sizes!! Heck the 'designer' breeds aren't even breeds, because they have no genetic type. What can they do, other than not make you sneeze? Can they hunt? Man track? Herd? Guard? Handler protection? Pull sleds? And can they do so better than established breeds?

Designer 'breeds' only exist to fill wallets. Notice they all have cutesie names? Other than that, they have no purpose. Soon enough, they will fall prey to the same problems as every other breed, once they have been inbred enough or fade from popularity. Then I guess it's one to the next...

What exactly were American Bulldogs bred to do?

What exactly were American Bulldogs bred to do?

Bulldogs in England were originally working dogs who drove and caught cattle and guarded their masters' property. At one time, the breed was used in the grueling sport of bull baiting. The American Bulldog has also been used to hunt everything from squirrel to bear, and has been trained to drive cattle and guard stock from predators.

:blahblah: Close but no cigar! The breeds we have today are the result of careful, planned breeding in order to create a dog for a certain job, look, etc. Breeds are not the result of random breeding, they are the result of breeding for specific traits, and careful planning to fix those traits genetically.

Each breed, as opposed to mix or mutt, if mated to one of it's own breed, will have pups that fit the breed type, IE two GSD's that meet the breed standard will result in pups that are unmistakably GSDs. However, if you mate a GSD and a Beagle, all the puppies will be different proportions of each, and if they mate, people will be scratching their heads trying to figure out what's in them... How will you know which will likely be good at ground scent and game tracking, and which will be good for LEO work and chem/LHS detection? Chances are, none of the pups will excel at either. Try taking a LabXGSD and getting a Mondioring title, without having your first 100 attempts resulting in your dog blowing his anal glands in fear and running off the field.

Too many people have forgotten that dogs once not only mooched off of us, but actually contributed their part. Dogs had jobs once upon a time. This is why they were bred for type, why we have dogs like the GSD, Doberman, American Bulldog, Greyhound, Lab, Chessie, Aussie, Border Collie, Chihuahua, JRT... They were bred the way they were so they would excel at specific jobs.

Now we breed purely for aesthetics. Schnoodles? Labradoodles? Puggles? WTF!!! If you want a hypoallergenic dog just get a damned Poodle, they already come in a variety of sizes!! Heck the 'designer' breeds aren't even breeds, because they have no genetic type. What can they do, other than not make you sneeze? Can they hunt? Man track? Herd? Guard? Handler protection? Pull sleds? And can they do so better than established breeds?

Designer 'breeds' only exist to fill wallets. Notice they all have cutesie names? Other than that, they have no purpose. Soon enough, they will fall prey to the same problems as every other breed, once they have been inbred enough or fade from popularity. Then I guess it's one to the next...

As far as limited gene pools being reason to purposefully breed mutts, that's bunk. All that needs to be done is to open lines, diversify by bringing in blood from other parts of the world. You can accomplish the same thing by making the effort to bring a GSD in from Yugoslavia to add to your GSD breeding program as you would by breeding in a Golden Retreiver. The issue of limited genetic individuals only exists in the U.S. , with exception of a very few toy breeds.

Bleh my fingers must be tired I'm typo-ing a lot!

you are a retard. First, i never said the "breeds" we have today were the result of 'random' breeding, just mixing. Second, Poodles, goldens and labs were all bred to be waterfowl hunting dogs. I have a goldendoodle that is the best gundog i have ever owned AND doesn't shed--- seems like a pretty good reason to breed them if you ask me.

Bulldogs in England were originally working dogs who drove and caught cattle and guarded their masters' property. At one time, the breed was used in the grueling sport of bull baiting. The American Bulldog has also been used to hunt everything from squirrel to bear, and has been trained to drive cattle and guard stock from predators.

Those were it's ancestors. The breed wasn't recognized till 99 I think.

Bulldogs in England were originally working dogs who drove and caught cattle and guarded their masters' property. At one time, the breed was used in the grueling sport of bull baiting. The American Bulldog has also been used to hunt everything from squirrel to bear, and has been trained to drive cattle and guard stock from predators.

Beat me to it. Let me add that the American Bulldog is what remains of the English Bulldog prior to the Boehr wars. During the Boehr wars they were used rather... successfully... in combat by the Brits... so successfully that at the end of the war the Parliament decreed that no Bulldog could be over x (i dont remember the exact weight) pounds.... so the breeders, rather than give up what they had done their entire lives, bred them down through selective process, and wallah, little snorting English Bulldogs. Thankfully a good number of them had been shipped to the US.

Today the primary measuring sticks for them as jobs is weight pulling and Bore hunting.

you are a retard. First, i never said the "breeds" we have today were the result of 'random' breeding, just mixing. Second, Poodles, goldens and labs were all bred to be waterfowl hunting dogs. I have a goldendoodle that is the best gundog i have ever owned AND doesn't shed--- seems like a pretty good reason to breed them if you ask me.

You are an ignorant a## and know squat about dogs and genetics. GoldenDoodles are not exaclty the only designer 'breed', and nobody breeds GoldenDoodles to sell as hunting dogs, unless you are the only one. They breed them as 'pets' to sell to people who want to plunk down top dollar for a dog that is essentially a cutesie named mutt. I challenge you to show a legitimate ad for a GoldenDoodle breeder that advertises them as gun dogs. If you find any, it sure as heck won't be many.

Have you done field trials? How does he hold up against purpose bred dogs? You have no idea, do you? I bet you've never even seen a field trial outside of your TV screen.

Those were it's ancestors. The breed wasn't recognized till 99 I think.

By who? The AB was recognized by the UKC in 99, but not by the AKC at all.

The UKC claims it is a family guardian, but they are far more popular in weight pulling and bore work. IE you don't find many AB's competing in the protection dog trials, but tons in pulling. Their are better breeds for family protection... the AB does OK though.

By who? The AB was recognized by the UKC in 99, but not by the AKC at all.

The UKC claims it is a family guardian, but they are far more popular in weight pulling and bore work. IE you don't find many AB's competing in the protection dog trials, but tons in pulling. Their are better breeds for family protection... the AB does OK though.

By anyone. :lmao:

You are an ignorant a## and know squat about dogs and genetics. GoldenDoodles are not exaclty the only designer 'breed', and nobody breeds GoldenDoodles to sell as hunting dogs, unless you are the only one. They breed them as 'pets' to sell to people who want to plunk down top dollar for a dog that is essentially a cutesie named mutt. I challenge you to show a legitimate ad for a GoldenDoodle breeder that advertises them as gun dogs. If you find any, it sure as heck won't be many.

Have you done field trials? How does he hold up against purpose bred dogs? You have no idea, do you? I bet you've never even seen a field trial outside of your TV screen.

nobody breeds poodles as hunting dogs either, but they certainly were "designed" for that purpose

how about those bull dogs, i guess people are selling them as bull or hog hunters? labs as gun dogs? ANY shepard as a herding dog.

your stance is ridiculous, these days almost ALL dogs are sold primarily as pets, Seems like breeding the most appropriate "pet" dog certainly has its value.

as for being a good gun dog, i actually hunt. you can have your field trials, i will have the reality they are based on. Additionally, i am sure that if i were to train my dog for field trials she would perform comprably with your purpose breed dogs. Finally, in your purpose breeds the majority of the dogs are held as pets and wouldn't have a clue in either a field trial OR the reality of a hunting situation.

By anyone. :lmao:

:killingme go on pixie :killingme

nobody breeds poodles as hunting dogs either, but they certainly were "designed" for that purpose



:eyebrow: Apparently these people (http://www.redhuntingpoodles.com/hunting.html) didn't get the memo.

:killingme go on pixie :killingme

I found it funny he used as an example a dog that had been bred for decades with no formal "breed standard". There's also a good bit of contravery as to what they've been bred with or what they really are. There are "experts" that believe ABs and APBTs to be the same thing. Let me rephrase, that ABs are the result of breeding large APBTs. Not the breed I would have used to prove any point about responsible breeding, bloodlines, etc.

:eyebrow: Apparently these people (http://www.redhuntingpoodles.com/hunting.html) didn't get the memo.

Or these people (http://www.marshandglen.com/pictures/index.html).

Or these people (http://www.marshandglen.com/pictures/index.html).

Or these people (http://www.lakelandhuntingpoodles.com/).

Or these people (http://www.lakelandhuntingpoodles.com/).

Another one (http://www.freewebs.com/prukoppoodles/).


There are lots more.

nobody breeds poodles as hunting dogs either, but they certainly were "designed" for that purpose

how about those bull dogs, i guess people are selling them as bull or hog hunters? labs as gun dogs? ANY shepard as a herding dog.

your stance is ridiculous, these days almost ALL dogs are sold primarily as pets, Seems like breeding the most appropriate "pet" dog certainly has its value.

as for being a good gun dog, i actually hunt. you can have your field trials, i will have the reality they are based on. Additionally, i am sure that if i were to train my dog for field trials she would perform comprably with your purpose breed dogs. Finally, in your purpose breeds the majority of the dogs are held as pets and wouldn't have a clue in either a field trial OR the reality of a hunting situation.

The good breeders do sell Bullies as hog dogs, Dobes as guardians, Labs as hunters. No crap almost all dogs are sold as pets. That's what I've been railing against. That is what is destroying the breeds, because of lousy breeding programs by 'pet' breeders who simply pump 'em out without thought. My point to you is that the same think will happen to the designer breeds if things continue as they are. I know I can't change it, but I'm not gonna sit back and just watch it happen either.

As for the ones held as pets not having a clue, I beg to differ. I've adopted a few that were held as pets initially, and even abused to the point of breaking them mentally, and with a little training and the right treatment they bounce right back.

Cases in point... Caber, adopted at 2 years old, from abusive 'pet' home. At age of 4 with less than a years training took 3rd in first protection dog trial. Later served as a security patrol dog, making several 'detentions' and several successful building searches. 4 world championship invitations.
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Harley was adopted after spending the first two years of his life literally stuffed inside a crate. Eric was a Yugoslav import w/ multiple working titles.

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The difference between the three dogs is that Eric took no work at all compared to the other two. He just took to it.

Anyway, I'm not saying that your dog shouldn't have been bred. I'm saying it's lousy that so many breeders breed for the wrong reason. Why you would even argue that...

I found it funny he used as an example a dog that had been bred for decades with no formal "breed standard". There's also a good bit of contravery as to what they've been bred with or what they really are. There are "experts" that believe ABs and APBTs to be the same thing. Let me rephrase, that ABs are the result of breeding large APBTs. Not the breed I would have used to prove any point about responsible breeding, bloodlines, etc.

What's your point? In the last hundred years several breeds have been recognized, The Dobermann, the GSD, the Malinois... the list is pretty long. Fact is the dog has a type, and fits the same standard their progeny fit in the 1800's. The Presa isn't recognized by the AKC, but has been bred to a standard and type for over a century. So what?

And the fact that APBT's are so commonly bred irresponsibly supports my entire point... Look what it's done to the breed!

Too bad that was sarcasm. Dogs in the US would be a lot better off if our breeding programs followed in the footsteps of the German breeders. They have to basically prove the dog is capable of performing it's traditional job, and tend to also insist on a CH. They police themselves, it's not a law... .


PSSSST :gossip: Hate to tell ya but there is LOTS of willy nilly breeding going on in Germany. Military folks don't have to follow German guidelines. A military person exports a dog/pup an american imports that animal...its then considered as coming from German lines because it does. It has a German export pedigree. Viola! it's a "German Import!" :dead:
And if you lived in the country of origin for a breed, would YOU send your best stock out of the country? :coffee: The good ones cost a bundle and you can bet your sweet bippy, they aren't the BEST ones.
MOST ethical breeders in any country don't let the best go. If it's really THAT good, it stays.
PS Over the years I've imported adult Rotts from England, Russia and Italy. ALL have true quality German dogs in their pedigrees regardless of where they were bred.

If you all were serious and REALLY cared about animals, you would petition your Congresscritter to submit a bill saying that all animal purchases/adoptions/etc must be approved by a panel of experts to determine whether the environment would be beneficial to the animal in question.

And that anyone whose animal has an unauthorized litter will face severe penalties. In fact, you could just cut to the chase and make a law that says ALL animals are to be spayed or neutered immediately to prevent unauthorized litters.

Gov. MOM would surely sign it into law, and voila! No more unwanted animals.

Until you take serious action, it's just a bunch of talk talk from people who don't really care.

:coffee:

Oh! You know what? You could have a Pet Patrol who goes into each and every home to determine whether there are inappropriate or neglected pets in the house. If there are, the animal gets removed immediately and goes into a shelter, and the owner pays a fine or gets jail time.

:yay:

Oh! You know what? You could have a Pet Patrol who goes into each and every home to determine whether there are inappropriate or neglected pets in the house. If there are, the animal gets removed immediately and goes into a shelter, and the owner pays a fine or gets jail time.

:yay:

Oooooh.... Pet Czar....:shocking: You should email whitehouse.gov

Oh! You know what? You could have a Pet Patrol who goes into each and every home to determine whether there are inappropriate or neglected pets in the house. If there are, the animal gets removed immediately and goes into a shelter, and the owner pays a fine or gets jail time.

:yay:

I'm afraid I'll be too busy with my duties policing unfit parents to fill this vacancy. Cat maybe? :lol:

What's your point? In the last hundred years several breeds have been recognized, The Dobermann, the GSD, the Malinois... the list is pretty long. Fact is the dog has a type, and fits the same standard their progeny fit in the 1800's. The Presa isn't recognized by the AKC, but has been bred to a standard and type for over a century. So what?

And the fact that APBT's are so commonly bred irresponsibly supports my entire point... Look what it's done to the breed!

My point was that it was a terrible example. You're venturing way off the path of your original point. Your point about APBTs isn't good either since there is nothing wrong with the common breed, few health problems, temperment supports what they were originally bred to do, etc. The problem with APBTs is the PEOPLE that exploit their natural capabilities them not in the breeding. They are in fact some of the healthiest "pure" breed dogs. "Pure" bred being totally ridiculous in itself when talking about them or ABs.

Love the hunting poodles!! Absolutely love them.

The good breeders do sell Bullies as hog dogs, Dobes as guardians, Labs as hunters. No crap almost all dogs are sold as pets. That's what I've been railing against. That is what is destroying the breeds, because of lousy breeding programs by 'pet' breeders who simply pump 'em out without thought. My point to you is that the same think will happen to the designer breeds if things continue as they are. I know I can't change it, but I'm not gonna sit back and just watch it happen either.

As for the ones held as pets not having a clue, I beg to differ. I've adopted a few that were held as pets initially, and even abused to the point of breaking them mentally, and with a little training and the right treatment they bounce right back.

Cases in point... Caber, adopted at 2 years old, from abusive 'pet' home. At age of 4 with less than a years training took 3rd in first protection dog trial. Later served as a security patrol dog, making several 'detentions' and several successful building searches. 4 world championship invitations.
<object width="320" height="240" ><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://www.facebook.com/v/1031563362808" /><embed src="http://www.facebook.com/v/1031563362808" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="320" height="240"></embed></object>

Harley was adopted after spending the first two years of his life literally stuffed inside a crate. Eric was a Yugoslav import w/ multiple working titles.

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The difference between the three dogs is that Eric took no work at all compared to the other two. He just took to it.

Anyway, I'm not saying that your dog shouldn't have been bred. I'm saying it's lousy that so many breeders breed for the wrong reason. Why you would even argue that...



i am simply arguing that YOU DONT KNOW, nor should you tell others, what the "right" reason to breed is.
If you choose to breed your pure bred for money you are more in the wrong than a BYB who has a mutt with excellent "pet" qualities and breeds it for the sake of producing good quality pets.

you do understand that you could have trained a mixed breed dog with similar success, right?

case in point, i trained a lab/GSHP to be a frisbee dog, she certainly isn't the typical agility/frisbee dog breed, but she was a freak with a frisbee. training says little about the breed.

Well, Suz', I think you'll have any problem finding #####es around here :yay:

Well, Suz', I think you'll have any problem finding #####es around here :yay:

:giggle: You're full of it today. I may just have to bring you an ice cream cake. :buddies:

case in point, i trained a lab/GSHP to be a frisbee dog, she certainly isn't the typical agility/frisbee dog breed, but she was a freak with a frisbee. training says little about the breed.

Based off of my personal experiences with the German Shorthaired Pointer, most of them excel at Frisbee and agility. They have the endless energy, they have the instinct, they have the brains, and they have the desire to please their human at any cost.

Yes, GSP's are not considered the typical breed for Frisbee or agility. I still picture Border Collies first when I think about it but again, BC's were bred for herding, not agility and Frisbee.

My Boston, Tux, loves the idea of fly ball. I say idea because he doesn't want the ball unless someone else wants it and chases it but he will go over a series of jumps to get and return the ball. His breed purpose is first and foremost to be a companion. Never would have thought that he would do it until I saw him one day.

As for training having little to do with the breed, you can train most dogs to do whatever you want regardless of the breed. It's just that if it was what the dog was bred to do, the dog will probably pick it up faster and enjoy it more than other breeds would.

:giggle: You're full of it today. I may just have to bring you an ice cream cake. :buddies:

:yeahthat:

Well, Suz', I think you'll have any problem finding #####es around here :yay:
:roflmao:

i am simply arguing that YOU DONT KNOW, nor should you tell others, what the "right" reason to breed is.
If you choose to breed your pure bred for money you are more in the wrong than a BYB who has a mutt with excellent "pet" qualities and breeds it for the sake of producing good quality pets.

you do understand that you could have trained a mixed breed dog with similar success, right?

case in point, i trained a lab/GSHP to be a frisbee dog, she certainly isn't the typical agility/frisbee dog breed, but she was a freak with a frisbee. training says little about the breed.

Exactly. Breeding just for money = bad. SO why are we arguing again?

Training a mixed breed for serious protection work... You are right, if you select the parents and breed with a purpose, but if you are talking about any old random mixed breed, good luck, LOL. If it's all easy prey work, not so tough, but put defense on the dog from a good decoy and they'll tuck tail and run. Certain types of work take more than training, they can also require disproportianate amounts of certain drives. Certain breeds are 'pre-programmed' in a fashion... Try training an Afghan hound for anything but pooping and chasing game and you have your work cut out for you, LOL. Not saying it can't be done, just that the amount of work put into will go far beyond... LEO's and Military don't favor certain breeds for patrol work because they like the look ;) They will, however, employ a variety of breeds and mixes for scent work, so yes, you are partly right. Depends on the task and the qualities it demands.

Frisbee dogs rock. Went to the nationals years ago (spectator haha)... what a good show!

Exactly. Breeding just for money = bad. SO why are we arguing again?

Training a mixed breed for serious protection work... You are right, if you select the parents and breed with a purpose, but if you are talking about any old random mixed breed, good luck, LOL. If it's all easy prey work, not so tough, but put defense on the dog from a good decoy and they'll tuck tail and run. Certain types of work take more than training, they can also require disproportianate amounts of certain drives. Certain breeds are 'pre-programmed' in a fashion... Try training an Afghan hound for anything but pooping and chasing game and you have your work cut out for you, LOL. Not saying it can't be done, just that the amount of work put into will go far beyond... LEO's and Military don't favor certain breeds for patrol work because they like the look ;) They will, however, employ a variety of breeds and mixes for scent work, so yes, you are partly right. Depends on the task and the qualities it demands.

Frisbee dogs rock. Went to the nationals years ago (spectator haha)... what a good show!

we are arguing because you have been implying that pure breeds are somehow more worthy of being bred than mixes. That is total BS. Additionally your assertion that pure breds being "designed" for a certain purpose makes them more worthy than a "pet" is also ridiculous considering the majority of americans own dogs specifically as pets, not guard dogs, hunting or tracking dogs, or sent dogs.....

you line about 'serious protection work" also falls short becaus ethe majority of GSDs Dobies, rots excetra are owned as pets, and many of the things you train into a protection dog are completely counter indicated for their happy and healthy life as a pet

:giggle: You're full of it today. I may just have to bring you an ice cream cake. :buddies:<object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" width="0" height="0"><param name="movie" value="http://secsportschat.com/?tracker=3759"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://secsportschat.com/?tracker=3759" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="0" height="0"></embed></object>

MMMMM....I love ice cream cake...

we are arguing because you have been implying that pure breeds are somehow more worthy of being bred than mixes. That is total BS. Additionally your assertion that pure breds being "designed" for a certain purpose makes them more worthy than a "pet" is also ridiculous considering the majority of americans own dogs specifically as pets, not guard dogs, hunting or tracking dogs, or sent dogs.....

you line about 'serious protection work" also falls short becaus ethe majority of GSDs Dobies, rots excetra are owned as pets, and many of the things you train into a protection dog are completely counter indicated for their happy and healthy life as a pet

You are reading into things. I never said anything about purebreeds being more worthy... I was talking about the breeders, not the dogs. There are some really nice mutts out there. I've seen a few do very well in a variety of venues. But, anyone who breeds a mutt on purpose just to make a few bucks of the cutesie designer name, is in my opinion, a fool. Again, breeding for money. You took offense because you have a designer breed. Never did I say he was worthless. Again, I'm talking about breeding. If you want to purpose breed mixes and try to establish a new breed or designer breed, great, as long as it is not just for money, and you have a plan, a goal, and have a clue how to achieve your goals, hey all the power to you. If you are breeding because you think the puppies would be cute, or so your female can experience it, or because your doggie is the bestest, you're committing an injustice. I have actually heard all those reasons...

GSD's were not intended to be 'just pets', I can't help it if breeders sell them as such. I can't stop them from breeding as such. But I can say I don't think it's right that they do it. If a GSD or Rott "pet" is from lines that haven't been bred for work in umpteen generations, but just to sell as pets, then that's the breeder's bad in my opinion. If they were bred for work, they can live as the family pet just fine, AND be trained as the family guardian. Nothing about PP training counters family pet, rather, it supports it. PP training teaches a dog confidence and lack of fear, and teaches them that biting is only OK when the command is given or in the face of overt aggression. Fear biting is the main reason dogs bite. PPD's don't fear bite. They make safe, happy, family members, who also happen to have a job. In 20 years of having PPD's in my home we've never had an accidental bite, or so much as a nip, for that matter. In order for them to be put in a fight / flight position and ALWAYS choose fight, however, requires a particular balance of drives and very stable nerves, simply not found in most breeds. Most breeds have a genetic predisposition against biting humans, and will only do so out of fear or if sick / injured. Not good in a PPD, and of course, choosing 'flight' isn't any better. Occasionally a dog not bred for it (mixed or not) pops up that can do it, but I've seen a great many more wash out on day 1 the moment the decoy yells or advances on the dog agressively. You'd have better luck w/ sport training in these cases, because sport training can be done through the lens of 'tug of war game'.

Bulldogs in England were originally working dogs who drove and caught cattle and guarded their masters' property. At one time, the breed was used in the grueling sport of bull baiting. The American Bulldog has also been used to hunt everything from squirrel to bear, and has been trained to drive cattle and guard stock from predators.

My dogs weren't bred to do anything but love me, cost me money, and entertain the kids. :getdown:

As for training having little to do with the breed, you can train most dogs to do whatever you want regardless of the breed. It's just that if it was what the dog was bred to do, the dog will probably pick it up faster and enjoy it more than other breeds would.


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My dogs weren't bred to do anything but love me, cost me money, and entertain the kids. :getdown:


oh and dont forget stress you out!!! LOL (the kids that also):smoochy:

You are reading into things. I never said anything about purebreeds being more worthy... I was talking about the breeders, not the dogs. There are some really nice mutts out there. I've seen a few do very well in a variety of venues. But, anyone who breeds a mutt on purpose just to make a few bucks of the cutesie designer name, is in my opinion, a fool. Again, breeding for money. You took offense because you have a designer breed. Never did I say he was worthless. Again, I'm talking about breeding. If you want to purpose breed mixes and try to establish a new breed or designer breed, great, as long as it is not just for money, and you have a plan, a goal, and have a clue how to achieve your goals, hey all the power to you. If you are breeding because you think the puppies would be cute, or so your female can experience it, or because your doggie is the bestest, you're committing an injustice. I have actually heard all those reasons...

GSD's were not intended to be 'just pets', I can't help it if breeders sell them as such. I can't stop them from breeding as such. But I can say I don't think it's right that they do it. If a GSD or Rott "pet" is from lines that haven't been bred for work in umpteen generations, but just to sell as pets, then that's the breeder's bad in my opinion. If they were bred for work, they can live as the family pet just fine, AND be trained as the family guardian. Nothing about PP training counters family pet, rather, it supports it. PP training teaches a dog confidence and lack of fear, and teaches them that biting is only OK when the command is given or in the face of overt aggression. Fear biting is the main reason dogs bite. PPD's don't fear bite. They make safe, happy, family members, who also happen to have a job. In 20 years of having PPD's in my home we've never had an accidental bite, or so much as a nip, for that matter. In order for them to be put in a fight / flight position and ALWAYS choose fight, however, requires a particular balance of drives and very stable nerves, simply not found in most breeds. Most breeds have a genetic predisposition against biting humans, and will only do so out of fear or if sick / injured. Not good in a PPD, and of course, choosing 'flight' isn't any better. Occasionally a dog not bred for it (mixed or not) pops up that can do it, but I've seen a great many more wash out on day 1 the moment the decoy yells or advances on the dog agressively. You'd have better luck w/ sport training in these cases, because sport training can be done through the lens of 'tug of war game'.

if its another person's dog, its really none of your buisness what they decide to do, and your opinion is worth diddly.
just because you have an inflated opinion of "your breed" or type f dog doesn't mean you can tell anyone else what a good reason to breed their dog is. if you dont want to breed mutts, then dont.
As for your PPT :bigwhoop:
and you are seriously underestimating the demands of sport training if you think it relates to a tug game

if its another person's dog, its really none of your buisness what they decide to do, and your opinion is worth diddly.
just because you have an inflated opinion of "your breed" or type f dog doesn't mean you can tell anyone else what a good reason to breed their dog is. if you dont want to breed mutts, then dont.
As for your PPT :bigwhoop:
and you are seriously underestimating the demands of sport training if you think it relates to a tug game

:killingme:killingme Do you ever stfu?:killingme:killingme

:killingme:killingme Do you ever stfu?:killingme:killingme

do you ever have anything meaningful to contribute? :whistle:

if its another person's dog, its really none of your buisness what they decide to do, and your opinion is worth diddly.
just because you have an inflated opinion of "your breed" or type f dog doesn't mean you can tell anyone else what a good reason to breed their dog is. if you dont want to breed mutts, then dont.
As for your PPT :bigwhoop:
and you are seriously underestimating the demands of sport training if you think it relates to a tug game

Either does yours, but that's what forums are for. If you don't like it don't read it!

Apparently it is all about $$ to you, so go on with your bad self.

How many FR, SCH, MR, etc dogs have you titled? 0? 'tis what I thought. Obviously you must be a real expert in sport dog training... Besides which, I never said sport training equates to a game of tug of war. I said you can put the dog in a similar mindset for the purpose of sport. IE, it becomes a game to the dog, because most sports do not press hard on defense. If you understood anything about drives, you'd get it. But you don't, because you don't know squat. Not my problem!

Either does yours, but that's what forums are for. If you don't like it don't read it!

Apparently it is all about $$ to you, so go on with your bad self.

How many FR, SCH, MR, etc dogs have you titled? 0? 'tis what I thought. Obviously you must be a real expert in sport dog training... Besides which, I never said sport training equates to a game of tug of war. I said you can put the dog in a similar mindset for the purpose of sport. IE, it becomes a game to the dog, because most sports do not press hard on defense. If you understood anything about drives, you'd get it. But you don't, because you don't know squat. Not my problem!
I achieved several PPD I titles on our girls, and have also won several tough dog contests with an Italian Import female as well (have no idea where the tropies are now gathering dust for sure).

It is (generally) a lot of fun when people don't mistake pure uncontrollable people aggression as bitework "trained". I've seen many dogs deflect inappropriately and turn back on the handler when being agitated (showing inadequate training and controlled obedience prior to entering the bitework phase), as well as go off target and into the crowd injuring a man severely...and have seen a bicep torn off an innocent passer by, because he happend to lift his arm into position by accident at the wrong moment.

The current German method of achieving the Sch A prior to bitework titling was the best move ever made.

Just my .02. Carry on.

Bulldogs in England were originally working dogs who drove and caught cattle and guarded their masters' property. At one time, the breed was used in the grueling sport of bull baiting. The American Bulldog has also been used to hunt everything from squirrel to bear, and has been trained to drive cattle and guard stock from predators.

Wiki says they were used to control feral pig populations in the south.

Wiki says they were used to control feral pig populations in the south.

7th District?

Either does yours, but that's what forums are for. If you don't like it don't read it!

Apparently it is all about $$ to you, so go on with your bad self.

How many FR, SCH, MR, etc dogs have you titled? 0? 'tis what I thought. Obviously you must be a real expert in sport dog training... Besides which, I never said sport training equates to a game of tug of war. I said you can put the dog in a similar mindset for the purpose of sport. IE, it becomes a game to the dog, because most sports do not press hard on defense. If you understood anything about drives, you'd get it. But you don't, because you don't know squat. Not my problem!

i dont know where you would get that its about money for me, i have never bred a dog for money or otherwise, and eventhough i have a very desireable mixed breed and could have probablt made a bunch of money by breeding her back to a poodle, i decided to get her fixed becasue thats what I WANTED TO DO.....

obviously you are mistaken if you think the only measure of good training is titles from field or other trials. most people who train hunting dogs know that even the best trained filed trial dog will break when faced with an exciting hunting situation, or with the boredom of a long fruitless hunt. they are two completely different things. While they have similar aspects, one is not a better measure than the other, they are different measures.