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CrashTest
05-03-2010, 07:31 AM
I've said for years that if you don't like speed cameras and get busted by one, go to court and ask to see the camera's calibration data.

Maryland Speed Camera Program Faces New Legal Challenge (http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/31/3125.asp)

Lucero's next step was to review state law, where she noticed a provision requiring that the "speed monitoring system operator" maintain a "daily log" proving that the system has been properly calibrated. She asked for the November 21 log, but Gaithersburg only supplied the logs for the preceding Friday and following Monday. As she later learned, the individual performing the so-called calibrations did not work weekends. After a number of delays, Lucero took her evidence before District Court Judge J. Michael Conroy on April 12.

"The validity of the ticket depends on a daily calibration testing of the camera unit," Lucero argued. "I believe the evidence in my case, the citation, was illegally obtained. The camera images were obtained illegally because the camera was not operated in accordance with state law."

glhs837
05-03-2010, 08:33 AM
Awesome. Nice to see the system get back a little of its own medicine. Funny, I just posted about how speed limits are set in another thread. Here we see it in action. Engineer says 30mph is too slow, and that cameras cause heartache. City (who makes money on the cameras) decides 10mph less than the engineers say is just fine. And they want to extend it south. Wonder why? Shocker, that brings them into the 1/2 range of an elementary school, which would allow more cameras.

BernieP
05-03-2010, 10:38 AM
Awesome. Nice to see the system get back a little of its own medicine. Funny, I just posted about how speed limits are set in another thread. Here we see it in action. Engineer says 30mph is too slow, and that cameras cause heartache. City (who makes money on the cameras) decides 10mph less than the engineers say is just fine. And they want to extend it south. Wonder why? Shocker, that brings them into the 1/2 range of an elementary school, which would allow more cameras.

Didn't read the story, how did the judge rule? In most areas the "judge" would find in favor of the state inspite of the evidence.

One of the big scams (IMHO) in Md is the road markings. Speed limits are not posted at regular intervals and there seems to be no standard 30,35, 40, 45, 50, 55. For instance, what makes one road 30 MPH and another 35 or 50 vice 55? Little if any warning that the speed limit is changing. In most states there are standards, i.e. speed limit must be posted every 1/4 mile. Changes in the speed limit must be annouced (posted) 1/2 to 1 mile before the speed limit is reduced.

Chasey_Lane
05-03-2010, 10:45 AM
I believe you can use the same argument for radar as well. They also have to be calibrated regularly.

Dukesdad
05-03-2010, 10:46 AM
Judge Conroy found her not guilty, placing Lucero in the most rarefied of company. According to Montgomery County documents, 742,470 speed camera tickets were issued between fiscal 2007 and 2009. Of these, only ten were found not guilty. Lucero hopes others will be inspired to challenge tickets issued by the system in violation of state law.

glhs837
05-03-2010, 10:48 AM
Especially since MD has allowed cameras to be placed all over the state. I'm really quite surprised the camera companies havent been sniffing around here. We are rural, and that doesnt bode well for profits, but a few well palced units on Chancellors, by Spring Ridge, and 235 by San Souci would rake in a lot, I think.

BernieP
05-03-2010, 11:08 AM
Especially since MD has allowed cameras to be placed all over the state. I'm really quite surprised the camera companies havent been sniffing around here. We are rural, and that doesnt bode well for profits, but a few well palced units on Chancellors, by Spring Ridge, and 235 by San Souci would rake in a lot, I think.

First we are not as "rural" as you would think and second, the slightly lower traffic volume probably would increase the number of "violators". Just think how many cars they would nail coming southbound on 235 in California where the speed limit drops from 55 to 45. CA CHING$

CrashTest
05-03-2010, 11:15 AM
Law enforcement for profit. Our Founding Fathers would be proud.

dave1959
05-03-2010, 11:26 AM
I don't see it as a problem. If you dont speed you won't get a ticket...

Vince
05-03-2010, 11:34 AM
Those red light cameras are a piece of crap too. Got a ticket in the mail that a red light computer deciphered as my license plate. They even sent me the photo. Only trouble was, it wasn't my truck. The difference between a full size Ford pick up (white) and a Ford Ranger (red) is pretty substantial. It took me three months to straighten that one out.

Lenny
05-03-2010, 11:44 AM
If you read the link (http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2010/md-caliblogs.pdf) on how the radar unit was calibrated, you'll note the speed limit in that area is 35 mph (not 30 mph as noted in the article) and that the enforcment speed limit is 47 mph (2 mph faster than her alleged speed when she got the ticket). Looks like the city of Gaithersburg, much like the Democrat party, cannot keep it's lies straight!

itsbob
05-03-2010, 11:47 AM
Especially since MD has allowed cameras to be placed all over the state. I'm really quite surprised the camera companies havent been sniffing around here. We are rural, and that doesnt bode well for profits, but a few well palced units on Chancellors, by Spring Ridge, and 235 by San Souci would rake in a lot, I think.

I would pay my fair share..

And if they caught me speeding, and I KNEW that I was speeding, hey I'll pay it without argument. Price to pay if you want to play.

I think fighting something over a technicality when you KNOW you were doing something wrong is right up there with frivolous lawsuits. Just pay the damn fine and slow down, or don't slow down and happily pay the next fine.

Nowhere in that article does it say if they were speeding or not.

aps45819
05-03-2010, 11:47 AM
I don't see it as a problem. If you dont speed you won't get a ticket...

You don't see a problem with "profit" being the motovation driving law enforcement?

itsbob
05-03-2010, 11:52 AM
You don't see a problem with "profit" being the motovation driving law enforcement?

I have a problem with speed traps, and illegally ticketing people that aren't speeding.

BUT we all know the rules, and some of choose to speed anyways. You want to dance, someone has to pay the band.

Why should the law abiders have to pay for traffic enforcement (with higher taxes), when we can get the speeder to do it?

glhs837
05-03-2010, 11:56 AM
I don't see it as a problem. If you dont speed you won't get a ticket...

Those red light cameras are a piece of crap too. Got a ticket in the mail that a red light computer deciphered as my license plate. They even sent me the photo. Only trouble was, it wasn't my truck. The difference between a full size Ford pick up (white) and a Ford Ranger (red) is pretty substantial. It took me three months to straighten that one out.

First we are not as "rural" as you would think and second, the slightly lower traffic volume probably would increase the number of "violators". Just think how many cars they would nail coming southbound on 235 in California where the speed limit drops from 55 to 45. CA CHING$



Dave, tell Vince that. Three months to straighten it out, that would be a problem for me. See, the big issue, its not for safety, its for profit, and the companies and gvoernments invovled see no problem with rigging the system to maximize those. Heck, up Bowie way, local govt sent a memo to the county, saying that they were going to place a camera near a certain school. Funnier thing is, county said no. Not becuase it would be a misapplication of the school zone placement, but becuase the county already planned to place one there.

Google Docs (http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B1e8Zo-xJDL2MTQxZTZjYjktODg1OC00ZjcxLThmMTYtMzQ3NjYyNGEyYzA2&hl=en)

Note they speak of creating school zones, and adding signage. If the safety of the students was so paramount, why did adding signs and making it an offcial school zone wait til there was money to be made?

Bernie, I hear you, just have to drive down the LP area to see that. But, compared to their normal hunting grounds, we are. Those companies look at athe map, see one main drag, think that Suitland is a much better place to be.

glhs837
05-03-2010, 12:08 PM
I have a problem with speed traps, and illegally ticketing people that aren't speeding.

BUT we all know the rules, and some of choose to speed anyways. You want to dance, someone has to pay the band.

Why should the law abiders have to pay for traffic enforcement (with higher taxes), when we can get the speeder to do it?

But you are not paying for enforcement, you are paying for politicians to have more money to play with. They start saying the money will only be used for safety. Great, cameras make 15 million, we can add 15 million worth of safety improvements. Not so fast. What they do is use the 15 mil to offset the regual budget. So, the police get no extra money, it just comes from a different pot. We dont add police, or make safety improvments to the road, we just allow the politicians to have a bunch of money they didnt have before. And, we are no safer than we were to start.

itsbob
05-03-2010, 12:10 PM
But you are not paying for enforcement, you are paying for politicians to have more money to play with. They start saying the money will only be used for safety. Great, cameras make 15 million, we can add 15 million worth of safety improvements. Not so fast. What they do is use the 15 mil to offset the regual budget. So, the police get no extra money, it just comes from a different pot. We dont add police, or make safety improvments to the road, we just allow the politicians to have a bunch of money they didnt have before. And, we are no safer than we were to start.

And again, I know the rules. IF they catch me speeding, and I AM speeding, no matter how they catch me, I'll happily pay the fine.

If they say I'm speeding and I'm not, then I'll fight it (chances of THAT happening are VERY slim)

chernmax
05-03-2010, 12:12 PM
Especially since MD has allowed cameras to be placed all over the state. I'm really quite surprised the camera companies havent been sniffing around here. We are rural, and that doesnt bode well for profits, but a few well palced units on Chancellors, by Spring Ridge, and 235 by San Souci would rake in a lot, I think.

Too many police would get busted so it will never happen...:coffee:

Baja28
05-03-2010, 12:24 PM
Those red light cameras are a piece of crap too. Got a ticket in the mail that a red light computer deciphered as my license plate. They even sent me the photo. Only trouble was, it wasn't my truck. The difference between a full size Ford pick up (white) and a Ford Ranger (red) is pretty substantial. It took me three months to straighten that one out.Same thing happened to me years ago in Beltsville. In my case the truck matched mine (white dodge). One letter was different (an O looked like a D). I took several pics of my truck from different angles including the tag and emailed to them. I received a letter within 2 weeks dismissing my ticket.

I think I was lucky.

glhs837
05-03-2010, 12:34 PM
And again, I know the rules. IF they catch me speeding, and I AM speeding, no matter how they catch me, I'll happily pay the fine.

If they say I'm speeding and I'm not, then I'll fight it (chances of THAT happening are VERY slim)

Too many police would get busted so it will never happen...:coffee:


bob, in what, less than an hour here, we have two folks its happened to. sure that the odds are in your favor? Maybe with an officer, using judgement, true, but machines and companies working for profit? Not so much.

Chern, silly goose, what makes you think that state employees have to pay?

Montgomery's Finest Won't Pay Fines - washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008030703484.html)

and when this was making its way towards approval last year, there was a proposed amendment that would make state employees liable for fines incurred for vehicles they signed for. Of course it was thrown out.

EmptyTimCup
05-03-2010, 12:38 PM
Great, cameras make 15 million, we can add 15 million worth of safety improvements. Not so fast. What they do is use the 15 mil to offset the regular budget.



same thing with Lottery Earnings ......

Schools should be drowning in money and property TAX Should be >null

Vince
05-03-2010, 02:26 PM
Same thing happened to me years ago in Beltsville. In my case the truck matched mine (white dodge). One letter was different (an O looked like a D). I took several pics of my truck from different angles including the tag and emailed to them. I received a letter within 2 weeks dismissing my ticket.

I think I was lucky.That's the only way I got the ticket dismissed. Took a digital photo and emailed it to the supervisor in Baltimore.

itsbob
05-03-2010, 02:42 PM
bob, in what, less than an hour here, we have two folks its happened to. sure that the odds are in your favor? Maybe with an officer, using judgement, true, but machines and companies working for profit? Not so much.



I haven't seen anyone on here say they got busted by a speeding camera and they weren't speeding, including the article the OP posted about.
I can see Vince's point, I had the same deal with a parking ticket in Baltimore, when I wasn't in Baltimore. They had the right plate number but the wrong make of car.

Took a phone call and a fax to clear it up that it wasn't my car. (and I only found out about it when I went to renew my registration and they had my registration flagged).

Case of a meter maid inputting the tag wrong, no cameras involved.

DEEKAYPEE8569
05-03-2010, 02:54 PM
Law enforcement for profit. Our Founding Fathers would be proud.
:yeahthat:

glhs837
05-03-2010, 03:38 PM
Those red light cameras are a piece of crap too. Got a ticket in the mail that a red light computer deciphered as my license plate. They even sent me the photo. Only trouble was, it wasn't my truck. The difference between a full size Ford pick up (white) and a Ford Ranger (red) is pretty substantial. It took me three months to straighten that one out.

Same thing happened to me years ago in Beltsville. In my case the truck matched mine (white dodge). One letter was different (an O looked like a D). I took several pics of my truck from different angles including the tag and emailed to them. I received a letter within 2 weeks dismissing my ticket.

I think I was lucky.

I haven't seen anyone on here say they got busted by a speeding camera and they weren't speeding, including the article the OP posted about.
I can see Vince's point, I had the same deal with a parking ticket in Baltimore, when I wasn't in Baltimore. They had the right plate number but the wrong make of car.

Took a phone call and a fax to clear it up that it wasn't my car. (and I only found out about it when I went to renew my registration and they had my registration flagged).

Case of a meter maid inputting the tag wrong, no cameras involved.

Not speeding cameras, but red light cames, which are essentially the same thing. Only reason you havent seen more wrong tickets here is that spoeed cameras are not as widely deployed here as red light cams are.

Trust me, the more of these get deployed, the more false tickets you willl see. Which still doesnt address enforcement for profit, and the potential for wrongdoing there. And still doesnt make anyone safer. So, the point is to shake down citizens for profit. Hmm, not what I want my goverment doing.

dave1959
05-03-2010, 03:59 PM
You don't see a problem with "profit" being the motovation driving law enforcement?

No I don't...If you do'nt speed you will not get a ticket..!!! So there would no profit.
.
Its a self correcting problem...

dave1959
05-03-2010, 04:01 PM
Not speeding cameras, but red light cames, which are essentially the same thing. Only reason you havent seen more wrong tickets here is that spoeed cameras are not as widely deployed here as red light cams are.

Trust me, the more of these get deployed, the more false tickets you willl see. Which still doesnt address enforcement for profit, and the potential for wrongdoing there. And still doesnt make anyone safer. So, the point is to shake down citizens for profit. Hmm, not what I want my goverment doing.

.If you do'nt do the crime there is no profit, Its pretty simple....

glhs837
05-03-2010, 04:22 PM
Right, but there is a problem. Safety. See, not only do these thing not increase safety, they actually reduce it. Folks learn where the cameras are, and speed until they get to them. Then they slam on the brakes, then speed back up. Except, of course, for the folks who dont know the cameras are there. They, not expecting a slowdown for no reason, rear end the folks who know about the cameras.

Oh, and I wont get one anyway:) Between Trapster, my GPS enabled radar detector, and situational awareness, and the fact that I very rarely exceed 9mph over, I'll be fine:)

CrashTest
05-03-2010, 07:02 PM
No I don't...If you do'nt speed you will not get a ticket..!!! So there would no profit.
.
Its a self correcting problem...

In the land of theory, there would be no speeders. Unfortunately, we live in the land of reality. In the land of reality, there will always be speeders and always be profits.

I would rather see resources focus on those pesky crimes that don't make a profit. Stuff like nabbing wife beaters, sex offenders, thiefs, etc.

glhs837
05-03-2010, 08:27 PM
Or, god forbid, actual unsafe drivers, as opposed to just fast ones.

EmptyTimCup
05-03-2010, 08:35 PM
I don't see it as a problem. If you dont speed you won't get a ticket...



if it was really a public safety matter, there would be an officer on the corner / road side and points would be assessed along with fines, this is all about the Benjamin's



:popcorn:

glhs837
05-03-2010, 09:44 PM
Heres some reading. Now, this site is dedicated to the downfall of the cameras, but the articles are almost all from local sources. See how many stories there are of a few things.

A. Local governments ignoring state law in the name of increased profits.

B. Rigged yellow lights, which, when caught, lead to longer yellows, which ALWAYs drops revenue below profitable levels, and the cameras go away.

C. Camera companies using wheel barrels full of money to land contracts.

D. Local politicians subverting the political process to ensure citizens cannot get cameras on a ballot.

TheNewspaper.Com: Front Page (http://thenewspaper.com/)

For MD specific info, stopbigbrothermd.com

Maryland Speed Cameras (http://www.stopbigbrothermd.org/)

Like Baltimore County, which created more school zones, just to put cameras in, and budgeted 7 million for camera profits before the first one was even placed. Yeah, its about money, all right.

edinsomd
05-03-2010, 10:14 PM
Escort Passport 8500 X50 :whistle:

glhs837
05-03-2010, 10:24 PM
Hell, its the age old game, measure/counter:) And I know this game:) :buddies: You do need some GPS, though. Never know when you might hit a place where they love some red light cameras, and love to short a yellow.

Tale Of The 3-Second Yellow Light - CBS Evening News - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/12/eveningnews/main558431.shtml)

Six US cities tamper with traffic cameras for profit (http://www.leftlanenews.com/six-us-cities-tamper-with-traffic-cameras-for-profit.html)

EDITORIAL: Alexandria's dangerous yellow-light game - Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/04/alexandrias-dangerous-yellow-light-game/)

Shorter Yellow Lights, Traffic Cameras: Are They Your Town's Latest Cash Cows - DailyFinance (http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/insurance/shorter-yellow-lights-is-it-your-towns-latest-cash-cow/19378356/)

Rig the game, eh? I can even the odds back up. :evil:

preselector
05-03-2010, 10:25 PM
I've said for years that if you don't like speed cameras and get busted by one, go to court and ask to see the camera's calibration data.

Expressing your opinion at the polls is also a good thing.

Speed Camera voting record:

Dyson- No

Bohanan- YES
Wood- No
O'Donnell- No

Pete
05-03-2010, 10:27 PM
The thought of Big Brother irritates me.

I remember watching a thing on Discovery years ago about cows. A hundred years ago they were wild, energetic, spirited animals and not the dumb, lazy, docile beasts they are now. They have been selectively bred and trained to be dumb, lazy, docile beasts. We are becoming the cows.

chernmax
05-04-2010, 08:39 AM
Law enforcement for profit. Our Founding Fathers would be proud.

From what I understand, law enforcement does not profit from it, CAM tickets are administrative fines so the county does whatever it wants with the money...

glhs837
05-04-2010, 09:10 AM
Sorta correct. Depends on hows its structured by the state/municipality. MDs law was so hard to pass becuase of that question. Counties didnt want to give any of the proceeds to the state, state wanted it all. then they compromised. Counites keep it all, until the take exceeds I think %10 of the county budget, state gets anything over that.

Counties I dont think have any restrictions on how they spend it, stae was supposed to only spend on safety improvements for roadways, and for police (they are a safety factor). But, like I mentioned ealier, they play a shell game. Numbers below made up.

Before camera money

State budget = 10 million
General fund funding = 7 million
State road safety funding = 1 million
State Police funding = 2 million

Public perception of what happens after cameras add 3 million

State budget = 13 million
General fund funding = 7 million
State road safety funding = 2
State Police Funding = 4

What really happens

State Budget = 13 million
General fund funding = 10 million
State road funding = 7 million
State Police funding = 2 million


Oh, there will be big press about the money going form the cams to the police, but no mention of the fact that they cut the funding of police from other sources, since they have this new revenue stream and all. Police didnt lose money, after all, and Casa needs a new pair of shoes, or some such.

Maryland Speed Cameras: State Run Speed Camera Money To Go Into General Fund (http://www.stopbigbrothermd.org/2010/03/state-run-speed-camera-money-goes-into.html)

State Budget

chernmax
05-04-2010, 10:24 AM
In 2006, the Maryland state legislature authorized a pilot Speed Camera program in Montgomery County over then Governor Ehrlich's veto (hb 443). Montgomery County's "Safe Speed" program uses both fixed speed cameras and mobile camera vans which record vehicle speed using radar and photograph the offending vehicles. The accused are sent tickets for $40 in the mail typically 2 weeks or more after the incident in question. In 2009 Senate Bill 277 was passed to authorize speed cameras throughout the state.

Some reasons why many oppose speed cameras include:


•The right to face your accuser in court and cross examine witnesses is guaranteed by the US Bill of Rights. Speed cameras deny you this right because the accuser is a machine.

•Speed cameras are a form of mass surveillance over ordinary drivers. The government is forbidden from engaging in sweeping surveillance systems without warrants to look for offenders of crimes. Only DRIVERS, rather than career criminals, are currently considered bad enough by the state legislature to justify such a system. It is possible that the cameras, or the data they collect, could one day be used for purposes other than speed enforcement, which may already be happening.
•The lack of human oversight means that no one person will be held accountable if there are widespread errors.
•Since tickets are received weeks later, the accused has a very limited ability to gather evidence in their defense. This is particularly true of mobile cameras which may no longer be in the same location, or 'workzone cameras' where the location may have been substantially changed by the time the defendant becomes aware of the alleged offense.
•Tickets are issued to the owner of the vehicle even if they are not the driver. Fully a third of speed camera tickets are going to people who did not in fact commit the offense because someone else was driving at the time. The burden of proof is on the owner to identify the driver and give their drivers license number to the court.

•Ticket Recipients who need to challenge citations have their cases heard in an unfair court proceeding known as 'speed camera day' where 50 or more defendants have their cases heard in assembly line manner. Because the burden of proof for speed camera tickets has been lowered below that of a criminal case, below even ordinary traffic violations, defendants are essentially 'guilty until proven innocent'. Judges have even told defendants things like 'the only acceptable "not guilty" plea was if someone else had been driving their car at the time the ticket was issued, and to present that driver." The government is free to present evidence without supporting witnesses, and defendants are found guilty even when they have proven that required operating procedures were not followed. Not only does this set a horrible legal precedent, and risk finding innocent people guilty, but it gives no incentive for the government agencies which are enforcing the law to obey the law themselves.
•The safety benefits of automated traffic enforcement systems have been mixed. Red light cameras have actually been proven to INCREASE accidents . One study in the UK have shown that other forms of speed control, such as speed bumps and speed indicator signs are much more effective at reducing accidents. Another UK study demonstrated that speed cameras did not reduce accident rates in highway work zones, concluding "No significant difference was observed in the PIA[Personal Injury Accident] rate for sites with and without cameras.". In one case a Montgomery County town was found to have made claims about reductions in accidents which were found to be false when compared to their own monthly police reports.
•There are other (non-Orwellian) ways to fight speeding that are every bit as effective if not more so than speed cameras.

•Speed cameras do not remove the worst drivers from the roads the way a police officer can. Drunk drivers or a reckless criminal in a stolen vehicle, who might pose an immediate risk to pedestrians and other motorists, could ignore a speed camera completely. And since the current system issues no points for citations, a wealthy but extremely bad driver can receive dozens of speed camera tickets without losing their license, if they pay the fines.
•Speed cameras encourage erratic driving behavior. Drivers slow down as they approach the camera sites, then accelerate after they pass them. Cameras make some already safe drivers nervous. And enforcement which is too strict could have unintended consequences such as causing drivers to spend too much time looking at their speedometers rather than at the road.

•There have been many proven cases of speed cameras issuing tickets in error, in Arizona, New Mexico, the UK(1, 2, 3, 4), Australia. Montgomery County speed cameras have been shown to produce errors as well. Even if driver believes they are innocent would need to spend days fighting one $40 ticket in court, and would probably not find it worthwhile to do so except as a matter of principal.

•The speed cameras are NOT operated by sworn police officers. Instead this is outsourced to a private company. Under Montgomery county's contract ACS receives a $16.25 per ticket commission from these cameras, despite the fact that this violates a provision of state law intended to forbid paying contractors based on the number of citations issued or paid. For a long time the county refused requests to release the full details of their contract with ACS to the public. Now almost all the other speed camera programs starting up in the state use similar arrangements. Per ticket commissions could encourage the contractor to cheat in order to maximize the number of tickets rather than safety, operate inaccurate cameras, or create barriers to legitimate ticket challenges. Essentially the contractor which generates the evidence used in court cases gets paid only if the defendant is found guilty, a clear conflict of interest. Moreover, the fact that local governments have circumvented this part of the law simply to guarantee a revenue stream brings into question whether ANY limitations will be respected.
•These cameras are about REVENUE. Some local governments see them as a way to make big money off of passing motorists who do not know the camera locations the way local drivers do. Washington DC's speed and red light camera systems have issued 2,952,333 tickets worth $224 million as of July 31 2007. Most of that money has come from Maryland residents. At least one county executive now openly admits that the cameras are 'a tax'.

•Speed Cameras are magnets for corruption. Speed Camera Contractors lobbied heavily for statewide speed cameras, even buying lawmakers steak dinners. Local governments have written funds into their budgets before camera locations were even selected. One town was found to have written their contract in such a way as to require the contractor to generate a profit. Other localities have bypassed restrictions on the use of funds. Many towns and cities in Maryland have even started creating new school zones solely for the purpose of deploying speed cameras, in one case even trying to lower speed limits just so they could issue more tickets. The desire for more public funds at any cost ignores the fact that using law enforcement for revenue generation is harmful to our justice system, creating a conflict of interest by the state against the accused. Future administrations may be encouraged to use overbearing tactics to increase revenues -- such as concealed cameras, deliberately lowering speed limits, deceptive or inadequate signs, or cameras placed immediately after the sign reducing the speed limit.

•Montgomery county's current system is actually very modest compared to systems in use in the UK, Arizona, and some other places. However, the fact that the state already tried to remove many restrictions on the system, that Montgomery County has already tried to interpret away provisions in the law, along with the revenue potential, makes it clear that the system will become much larger and more invasive in the future if it is left unchallenged. In fact speed cameras themselves are only the tip of the iceberg, some local officials have gone so far as to seriously propose mandating the installation of GPS tracking systems into every car so that they can tax you for every mile you drive.

•Even if the roads really ARE safer in Nineteen Eighty Four, we still don't want to live there!

Maryland Speed Cameras: About Speed Cameras (http://www.stopbigbrothermd.org/2008/03/speed-cameras-oh-where-to-begin.html)

BernieP
05-04-2010, 02:43 PM
if it was really a public safety matter, there would be an officer on the corner / road side and points would be assessed along with fines, this is all about the Benjamin's

:popcorn:

long before they automated the process by combing camera with radar, speed traps existed as a method to raise revenue.

glhs837
05-04-2010, 02:51 PM
Yep, sure did, and they will long after cameras come and go. But really, not too much in the way of speed traps like we used to understand them.

msqtech
05-04-2010, 02:56 PM
In DC they block access to the main highways with police cars so it is only temporary and force you through a residential area to get to the highway increasing the take from their speed enforcement cameras. They are doing this strictly for revenue and decreasing the safety of the residents in those neighborhoods. This happens on exiting sporting events and other large area gatherings taking advantage of the people visiting from outside the DC borders and reducing the chance that anyone will actually fight it.

BernieP
05-04-2010, 02:59 PM
coincidence; in the thread regarding license plate covers the subject took a turn thru tinted glass to turning on headlights when the wipers are on.

Talk about safety, how many times have you found it difficult to see a vehicle in inclement weather? A fair number of states have put in laws that require the cars not equiped with daytime running lights to turn on their head lights during rain or snow (wipers on, lights on). IMHO that's a legit safety issue, enhancing visibility of vehicles in poor lighting or weather conditions.
But that law is rarely if ever enforced.
Yet drive 5 miles over the speed limit and you get a ticket.
Often when nobody is on the road.

CrashTest
05-05-2010, 07:30 AM
From what I understand, law enforcement does not profit from it, CAM tickets are administrative fines so the county does whatever it wants with the money...

I think many cameras are privatized. Private businesses don't do anything unless there is profit involved.

glhs837
05-05-2010, 07:49 AM
Oh, Crash, that's a definite. I would say the percentage in MD has to be in the %90 or better range. Governments rarely do it by themselves because start up costs and manpower/maint requirements are up there.

glhs837
05-07-2010, 09:55 PM
Maryland: Town Residents Vote To Ban Speed Cameras (http://thenewspaper.com/news/31/3130.asp)

Residents get enough signatures to force the issue through referendum. Ban use of cameras for enforcement.


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