I don't post here too much, but the topic that has recieved well deserved attention "I. A. M. vs DynCorp International" got my attention too. I work, and have worked for employers on this base for a long time. My concern (and question) is what would happen to the productivity and/or the ability of the other contractors and companies who interact with DynCorp if these guys decide to strike?
If my flight test project was put on hold because another contractor, one that we are dependant on won't come to work, how would that impact the entire the flight test enviornment here?
My intent for asking you this is in no way to stir up any anger about greed, political affiliation, and especially family. Just a question... What if?

UAW already stirred up the anger.

I don't post here too much, but the topic that has recieved well deserved attention "I. A. M. vs DynCorp International" got my attention too. I work, and have worked for employers on this base for a long time. My concern (and question) is what would happen to the productivity and/or the ability of the other contractors and companies who interact with DynCorp if these guys decide to strike?
If my flight test project was put on hold because another contractor, one that we are dependant on won't come to work, how would that impact the entire the flight test enviornment here?
Just a question... What if?

Some other company would be awarded a temp contract and the strikes would get to hang out at Placid Harbor until they can no langer pay their dues.

Some other company would be awarded a temp contract and the strikes would get to hang out at Placid Harbor until they can no langer pay their dues.

Exactly another company would step up and fill the slot. The folks that write the contracts probably have a stack of bids sitting there waiting for a "what-if" scenario. You'd at most have a gap of a week or so. Not to mention, the government's finishing up finance for the new FY anyway. If dynacorp strikes, those folks may be out of a job for anywhere from a year to five years depending on the support contract needs.

Where did these talks of a strike come from?

Under their current contract, there is a strike clause. Hearing that ends Aug 31....wonder if they'll get a bridge contract.

I think the strike talk arose from the I.A.M. vs Dyncorp thread. What does that strike clause read, I wonder.

With the sheer number of jobless people in America now and the state of the economy, any strike would be idiotic!

I think the strike talk arose from the I.A.M. vs Dyncorp thread. What does that strike clause read, I wonder.


Not sure of wording, but it's an agreement that they would not strike under current contract.

so, the way I see it, they will place off work union members outside the gates to give the base folks a taste of what a strike might look like, and if they dont get what they want, let the contract expire, thinking that Dyn will cave rather than take the bad press and heartache from ticked off customers. Same tactic the UAW has used to crush the steel and auto industries.

so, the way I see it, they will place off work union members outside the gates to give the base folks a taste of what a strike might look like, and if they dont get what they want, let the contract expire, thinking that Dyn will cave rather than take the bad press and heartache from ticked off customers. Same tactic the UAW has used to crush the steel and auto industries.

And I think in SoMd, that tactic will backfire.

Hold up base traffic and the folks going into work will be tempted to run your butt over.

Bad press? You mean what press? Most news comes from the forums on here and BayNet and the overwhelming majority seem to believe, good you go on strike and I can get your job.

Ticked off customers? That's the same people mentioned above and of course the government. Luckily this is coming at the end of the physical year. They strike and the dyncorp contracts can easily be awarded to another contractor who is more than willing to step up to the plate, get the job done.

As I mentioned before, if a union strikes because of benefits or pay, the company they work for can replace those employees. With as many people clamoring for jobs right now, it won't be hard to find replacements. Dyncorp employees striking just will cause those employees to lose their jobs. :shrug:

And I think in SoMd, that tactic will backfire.

Hold up base traffic and the folks going into work will be tempted to run your butt over.
Bad press? You mean what press? Most news comes from the forums on here and BayNet and the overwhelming majority seem to believe, good you go on strike and I can get your job.

Ticked off customers? That's the same people mentioned above and of course the government. Luckily this is coming at the end of the physical year. They strike and the dyncorp contracts can easily be awarded to another contractor who is more than willing to step up to the plate, get the job done.

As I mentioned before, if a union strikes because of benefits or pay, the company they work for can replace those employees. With as many people clamoring for jobs right now, it won't be hard to find replacements. Dyncorp employees striking just will cause those employees to lose their jobs. :shrug:

:yay:

I didnt say it would work, just that that is what they would do, in my opinion. Unions, like car dealerships, still live in the past.

There is no company that can bring in over 900 QUALIFIED employees to fill the requirements of the CFT at Pax River in a short time period. The union knows that, so does DynCorp, and so does the Navy.

These aren't ditch diggin jobs, and there is not a pool of qualified mechanics and plane captains out there itchin to move to Pax River.

There is no company that can bring in over 900 QUALIFIED employees to fill the requirements of the CFT at Pax River in a short time period. The union knows that, so does DynCorp, and so does the Navy.

These aren't ditch diggin jobs, and there is not a pool of qualified mechanics and plane captains out there itchin to move to Pax River.

Funny thing about that. DynCorp does not bring employees 'in'..just like 90% of the other support contractors do not either. They all swap contracts and employees that stay in place. So maybe DynCorp has avoided the musical chair game more than some..but it will catch up with them and it will work just the same.

I always laffed when it was time for the music to start on another round of contract competes. All you had to do to keep your identical job was make sure you submitted your resume to all competing teams..so if your current employer lost, you would never notice a thing change except the name on yr top bosses door.

For the life of me I cannot remember the name of the corporation - very similar to DynCorp - that provided the lion's share of the same kind of support to Dahlgren that DynCorp does to Pax. Its been too many years I guess..

Anywho..they were 'irreplaceable'..but were eventually replaced. Yet all..and I mean like over 90% of 'all' of their experienced employees simply put on their new company hat and never missed a beat.

You know i really think everyone should stop crying and acting like a child because they didnt get what they wanted so they are gonna go cry and strike well ALL OF YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT A STRIKE PLEASE GO AHEAD SO WHEN THEY FIRE YOU THEY CAN GIVE THE JOBS TO PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE MORE THEN HAPPY TO JUST HAVE A JOB. thank you that is all

The Base Is Going To Shut Down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Base Is Going To Shut Down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pretty much. :buddies: :killingme

Exactly another company would step up and fill the slot. The folks that write the contracts probably have a stack of bids sitting there waiting for a "what-if" scenario. You'd at most have a gap of a week or so. Not to mention, the government's finishing up finance for the new FY anyway. If dynacorp strikes, those folks may be out of a job for anywhere from a year to five years depending on the support contract needs.

We've literally had people cold call us and ask us when our current contract was up, when we were starting a recompete, and even if we were happy with our current services provider. They're hungry out there.

We've literally had people cold call us and ask us when our current contract was up, when we were starting a recompete, and even if we were happy with our current services provider. They're hungry out there.

And your response was something like, "I'll let you know... there's rumblings of a strike and we may need a new crew soon...".

:lol:

Funny thing about that. DynCorp does not bring employees 'in'..just like 90% of the other support contractors do not either. They all swap contracts and employees that stay in place. So maybe DynCorp has avoided the musical chair game more than some..but it will catch up with them and it will work just the same.

I always laffed when it was time for the music to start on another round of contract competes. All you had to do to keep your identical job was make sure you submitted your resume to all competing teams..so if your current employer lost, you would never notice a thing change except the name on yr top bosses door.

We sometimes refer to the process of companies coming in and converting employees as the "convert or die" process. Most companies bid, counting on x-percentage of the incumbent's employees making the jump. 80 percent or more will convert. Only the most senior usually won't, and there is always a percentage of younger ones that will jump to another company, or go government.

And your response was something like, "I'll let you know... there's rumblings of a strike and we may need a new crew soon...".

:lol:

Well, we weren't in a strike situation, but we did give them the ACO's phone number. Let's put it this way: I wouldn't want to be on her bad side.

We sometimes refer to the process of companies coming in and converting employees as the "convert or die" process. Most companies bid, counting on x-percentage of the incumbent's employees making the jump. 80 percent or more will convert. Only the most senior usually won't, and there is always a percentage of younger ones that will jump to another company, or go government.

OP obviously a newbie..a babe in the woods..to the game I've been part of for over 30 years now. First as COTR on gummint side..the rest as a feeder on the the dark side.

To be fair to the wet-behind-ears OP..I never thought the system equitable nor particularly fair and damned-sure never honest. But it is what it is. Congress said so.

Edit: oops..I really meant the whiney OP in the 'other' post on this topic.

Some other company would be awarded a temp contract and the strikes would get to hang out at Placid Harbor until they can no longer pay their dues.

With the sheer number of jobless people in America now and the state of the economy, any strike would be idiotic!

:yay: Yep, there are a lot of people that are qualified to work in the flight test community living here.

The Base Is Going To Shut Down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:jameo: Steny, Steny oh where for art thou, Steny? :jameo:


:biggrin:

You know i really think everyone should stop crying and acting like a child because they didnt get what they wanted so they are gonna go cry and strike well ALL OF YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT A STRIKE PLEASE GO AHEAD SO WHEN THEY FIRE YOU THEY CAN GIVE THE JOBS TO PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE MORE THEN HAPPY TO JUST HAVE A JOB. thank you that is all

Do you breathe when you talk?

OP obviously a newbie..a babe in the woods..
Edit: oops..I really meant the whiney OP in the 'other' post on this topic.

Thanks. I have been watching this. I'm going to stay neutral on the topic of the emotions people have about why a strike may happen by Dyn employees. My real concern is what happens to the rest of the flight test enviornment, and the real impact that this could potentially cause should it happen... Something I'm new to, even after all these years. Thanks again.

:jameo: Steny, Steny oh where for art thou, Steny? :jameo:


:biggrin:

:smack:

:smack:

Of course, I was joking, since the urban legend has been that Steny can save the base. :charleslollarfan:

With the sheer number of jobless people in America now and the state of the economy, any strike would be idiotic!

Depends on the labor laws. In some areas you cannot replace striking workers with non-union workers. In some states/cities every other trade union would honor their picket line and a job would be closed down.

Don't know what Marlyand law is and what federal laws might apply (since the job site in on federal property).

All I'm trying to say is "replacement" workers might not be an option. (unfortunately)

Depends on the labor laws. In some areas you cannot replace striking workers with non-union workers. In some states/cities every other trade union would honor their picket line and a job would be closed down.

Don't know what Marlyand law is and what federal laws might apply (since the job site in on federal property).

All I'm trying to say is "replacement" workers might not be an option. (unfortunately)

I for one know for a fact that in quite a few instances, trying to replace these workers will never work. For one, My job mandates that you have attended certain schools while originally on active duty with the military, so as you can imagine, that thins the herd quite a bit. As of right now, the shop is short and cant find anyone to fill the need. Now just where are they going to get 900 of those people just like me?

No, we are not ditch diggers nor day laborers, and this isnt something you can just hop out of High School and start doing. 99% of DynCorp employees are ex military for a reason. Partly because the Navy would seriously frown on anyone else touching their multi-million dollar aircraft because of the training involved. As far as getting locked out of the base? It wouldnt matter to me or quite a few others like me because Im a retiree, so they HAVE to let me in.

Anyone ever work for a company that doesnt give ANY sick days? DynCorp doesnt. They make you take vacation time instead. What if youre in your first year and dont get any vacation time yet? Tough, you dont get paid. Heres another little catch 22- they can punish you for taking too many unpaid days off. Sound fair? Not to me either. I dont think its whining to want something the general public already has.

I for one know for a fact that in quite a few instances, trying to replace these workers will never work. For one, My job mandates that you have attended certain schools while originally on active duty with the military, so as you can imagine, that thins the herd quite a bit. As of right now, the shop is short and cant find anyone to fill the need. Now just where are they going to get 900 of those people just like me?

No, we are not ditch diggers nor day laborers, and this isnt something you can just hop out of High School and start doing. 99% of DynCorp employees are ex military for a reason. Partly because the Navy would seriously frown on anyone else touching their multi-million dollar aircraft because of the training involved. As far as getting locked out of the base? It wouldnt matter to me or quite a few others like me because Im a retiree, so they HAVE to let me in.

Anyone ever work for a company that doesnt give ANY sick days? DynCorp doesnt. They make you take vacation time instead. What if youre in your first year and dont get any vacation time yet? Tough, you dont get paid. Heres another little catch 22- they can punish you for taking too many unpaid days off. Sound fair? Not to me either. I dont think its whining to want something the general public already has.

First off...thank you for your service to our country.

I know allot of great people who work for Dyncorp and many other contractors in the area. You guys do a great job.

There are companies who are better at benefits and there are some that are worse. We can definitely keep slicing this either way.

Are you suggesting a Union is the solution?

It's interesting to read the posts that people of the local community make concerning something that most don't even know about.

Union labor is not something old around here, in fact it is still very young to the Southern Maryland area. Unions employ a Democratic principle that allows employees to strive for better wages, benefits and working conditions. Frankly after living in this area for close to 20 years I don't understand why more of you out there haven't Unionized.

Everyday I see people who drive cars that should be in the junk yard, live in homes that are in bad need of repair or just can't afford some of the better things in life. Unions, drive the wage up in areas where they are established. The AWD (Average Wage Determination) for the area responds in growth based on the prevailing wages. So, if the wage goes up for the Union worker so does the wage for everyone else who works a job that receives compensation based on the AWD.

As an example of what a Union can do, lets examine the DynCorp facility at Solomon MD. Three (3) years ago a Union drive was made there (at the same time the DynCorp folks at Patuxent River Unionized). That drive (Solomon's) failed by a very narrow margin, but because of the success of the Pax River folks, wages at Solomon's went up $6.00/hr over night. Now I am no math expert but that equates to $12,000+ dollars more a year in income based just on a fear of Unionizing (imagine where they would be today in pay if they had Unionized).

Everyone benefits, infact are you aware that most Civil Service workers at Pax are Unionized and have been for a long time.

Don't beat down the Union just because you don't understand it. I for one am glad I am a part of the IAM and I fight everyday to make it's position even stronger.

If you work in a trade that could be Unionized you should be asking for representation. Why would you settle for a lesser wage or benefit, one designed to keep you enslaved to your employer just so you can make ends meet, when you could be making better wages and benefits that will afford you a better life style.

Hea, if you want to live in the basement that's your choice, me I prefer a room with a view.

Anyone ever work for a company that doesnt give ANY sick days? DynCorp doesnt. They make you take vacation time instead. What if youre in your first year and dont get any vacation time yet? Tough, you dont get paid. Heres another little catch 22- they can punish you for taking too many unpaid days off. Sound fair? Not to me either. I dont think its whining to want something the general public already has.

Many do and many more soon will work for companys that have only one kind of leave. AS I mentioned in another post on this thread or the other on the same topic, my own company is soon scrapping the separate leave model (sick plus vacation) and going with the comprehensive leave approach. The only thing still not settled is one of the two issues you raised; how many total days comprehensive leave we should offer. We are not going to simply eliminate sick leave without adding 'some' hours to the overal comprehensive leave package*. As for what happens during first year?...same as most companies; leave without pay.

What is the punishment for taking too many unpaid days, btw?


* said number of days being based on a review of the data we've been able to get our hands on; data that shows clearly how significant a drop in missed work days occurs immediately anywhere a company has changed from dual-leave to comp leave model. We are going to eliminate sick leave and add a number of days to the vacation we had and call it comprehensive leave...and the final number will reflect the natioanal data plus probably 8 hours on top.

In practical terms, if the data shows that people took 2 sick days on average with comprehensive leave where the average was 5 with regular sick leave..we will probably add 3 days to existing vacation benefit and call it good.

I think I.A.M stand for I'm A Moron. I.A.M needs to stop being greedy. DynCorp has great benifits. At least they have vacaction. Most jobs don't. They get paid great. If they go on strike is I.A.M going to pay for my health insurance, rent, groceries, and etc... No they are not.

Anyone ever work for a company that doesnt give ANY sick days? DynCorp doesnt. They make you take vacation time instead.

Yea - it's called PTO. Most companies have changed to PTO. Paid sick leave + paid vacation is going the way of the dodo bird. When we first changed to PTO almost 10 years ago, I whined like you guys but just like you, I had an alternative but chose not to take it.

If you work in a trade that could be Unionized you should be asking for representation. Why would you settle for a lesser wage or benefit, one designed to keep you enslaved to your employer just so you can make ends meet, when you could be making better wages and benefits that will afford you a better life style..

Where does the money for all those increased wages and benefits actually come from?

And if you really have been in So Md for 20 years, you would know that the 'trades' are all small companies...tiny companies. I can see Tommy's HVAC installers or Bobby's drywall hangers organizing now..LOL. No..wait..I got it. The IBoCFC....International Brotherhood of Charter Fishing Captains.

Unions suck and kill companies.

:yeahthat:

It's interesting to read the posts that people of the local community make concerning something that most don't even know about.

Union labor is not something old around here, in fact it is still very young to the Southern Maryland area. Unions employ a Democratic principle that allows employees to strive for better wages, benefits and working conditions. Frankly after living in this area for close to 20 years I don't understand why more of you out there haven't Unionized.

Everyday I see people who drive cars that should be in the junk yard, live in homes that are in bad need of repair or just can't afford some of the better things in life. Unions, drive the wage up in areas where they are established. The AWD (Average Wage Determination) for the area responds in growth based on the prevailing wages. So, if the wage goes up for the Union worker so does the wage for everyone else who works a job that receives compensation based on the AWD.

As an example of what a Union can do, lets examine the DynCorp facility at Solomon MD. Three (3) years ago a Union drive was made there (at the same time the DynCorp folks at Patuxent River Unionized). That drive (Solomon's) failed by a very narrow margin, but because of the success of the Pax River folks, wages at Solomon's went up $6.00/hr over night. Now I am no math expert but that equates to $12,000+ dollars more a year in income based just on a fear of Unionizing (imagine where they would be today in pay if they had Unionized).

Everyone benefits, infact are you aware that most Civil Service workers at Pax are Unionized and have been for a long time.

Don't beat down the Union just because you don't understand it. I for one am glad I am a part of the IAM and I fight everyday to make it's position even stronger.

If you work in a trade that could be Unionized you should be asking for representation. Why would you settle for a lesser wage or benefit, one designed to keep you enslaved to your employer just so you can make ends meet, when you could be making better wages and benefits that will afford you a better life style.

Hea, if you want to live in the basement that's your choice, me I prefer a room with a view.

"Free Cake and Ice Cream!!!" NOW YOUR MAKING ME HUNGRY!!!!:tantrum

I for one know for a fact that in quite a few instances, trying to replace these workers will never work. For one, My job mandates that you have attended certain schools while originally on active duty with the military, so as you can imagine, that thins the herd quite a bit. As of right now, the shop is short and cant find anyone to fill the need. Now just where are they going to get 900 of those people just like me?

No, we are not ditch diggers nor day laborers, and this isnt something you can just hop out of High School and start doing. 99% of DynCorp employees are ex military for a reason. Partly because the Navy would seriously frown on anyone else touching their multi-million dollar aircraft because of the training involved. As far as getting locked out of the base? It wouldnt matter to me or quite a few others like me because Im a retiree, so they HAVE to let me in.

Anyone ever work for a company that doesnt give ANY sick days? DynCorp doesnt. They make you take vacation time instead. What if youre in your first year and dont get any vacation time yet? Tough, you dont get paid. Heres another little catch 22- they can punish you for taking too many unpaid days off. Sound fair? Not to me either. I dont think its whining to want something the general public already has.
But what are you going to give up for this? Negotiations are give and take, if you want something without giving up something else you're now making demands.

It's interesting to read the posts that people of the local community make concerning something that most don't even know about.

Union labor is not something old around here, in fact it is still very young to the Southern Maryland area. Unions employ a Democratic principle that allows employees to strive for better wages, benefits and working conditions. Frankly after living in this area for close to 20 years I don't understand why more of you out there haven't Unionized.

Everyday I see people who drive cars that should be in the junk yard, live in homes that are in bad need of repair or just can't afford some of the better things in life. Unions, drive the wage up in areas where they are established. The AWD (Average Wage Determination) for the area responds in growth based on the prevailing wages. So, if the wage goes up for the Union worker so does the wage for everyone else who works a job that receives compensation based on the AWD.

As an example of what a Union can do, lets examine the DynCorp facility at Solomon MD. Three (3) years ago a Union drive was made there (at the same time the DynCorp folks at Patuxent River Unionized). That drive (Solomon's) failed by a very narrow margin, but because of the success of the Pax River folks, wages at Solomon's went up $6.00/hr over night. Now I am no math expert but that equates to $12,000+ dollars more a year in income based just on a fear of Unionizing (imagine where they would be today in pay if they had Unionized).

Everyone benefits, infact are you aware that most Civil Service workers at Pax are Unionized and have been for a long time.

Don't beat down the Union just because you don't understand it. I for one am glad I am a part of the IAM and I fight everyday to make it's position even stronger.

If you work in a trade that could be Unionized you should be asking for representation. Why would you settle for a lesser wage or benefit, one designed to keep you enslaved to your employer just so you can make ends meet, when you could be making better wages and benefits that will afford you a better life style.

Hea, if you want to live in the basement that's your choice, me I prefer a room with a view.

You are totally correct, but you left out the Davis Beacon act. Take for example metal crafters sheet metal company,they are non-union. But when they work on a goverment job, or something funded with government money, they make the same wages that a union sheet metal worker would make. Like if they were to work on Andrews they make union wages. I believe this goes for all the different trades.

First off...thank you for your service to our country.

I know allot of great people who work for Dyncorp and many other contractors in the area. You guys do a great job.

There are companies who are better at benefits and there are some that are worse. We can definitely keep slicing this either way.

Are you suggesting a Union is the solution?

Not always, but if a company.. ANY company is unfair or unwilling to budge on a important issue, then yes.

Many do and many more soon will work for companys that have only one kind of leave. AS I mentioned in another post on this thread or the other on the same topic, my own company is soon scrapping the separate leave model (sick plus vacation) and going with the comprehensive leave approach. The only thing still not settled is one of the two issues you raised; how many total days comprehensive leave we should offer. We are not going to simply eliminate sick leave without adding 'some' hours to the overal comprehensive leave package*. As for what happens during first year?...same as most companies; leave without pay.

What is the punishment for taking too many unpaid days, btw?


* said number of days being based on a review of the data we've been able to get our hands on; data that shows clearly how significant a drop in missed work days occurs immediately anywhere a company has changed from dual-leave to comp leave model. We are going to eliminate sick leave and add a number of days to the vacation we had and call it comprehensive leave...and the final number will reflect the natioanal data plus probably 8 hours on top.

In practical terms, if the data shows that people took 2 sick days on average with comprehensive leave where the average was 5 with regular sick leave..we will probably add 3 days to existing vacation benefit and call it good.

One way, is a memo to the record, which affects future employment should it become an issue, etc. Its more geared towards the chronic offender, though.

Yea - it's called PTO. Most companies have changed to PTO. Paid sick leave + paid vacation is going the way of the dodo bird. When we first changed to PTO almost 10 years ago, I whined like you guys but just like you, I had an alternative but chose not to take it.

What you refer to as "Whining" I refer to as unfair to the first year employee who doesnt get vacation and if he/she gets sick, you dont get paid and risk discipline. Apparently you didnt read our reasonings for bringing the issue up for contention. The new employee, IMO, should get at least 2 sick days after their 90 days is up. I think THAT would be more fair to everyone.

Where does the money for all those increased wages and benefits actually come from?

And if you really have been in So Md for 20 years, you would know that the 'trades' are all small companies...tiny companies. I can see Tommy's HVAC installers or Bobby's drywall hangers organizing now..LOL. No..wait..I got it. The IBoCFC....International Brotherhood of Charter Fishing Captains.

There are smaller Union companies. Have you ever heard of Southern MD Hydraulics? They are a hydraulic shop in Waldorf by the DMV. They are part of the Operating Engineers Union. They have total of maybe 6 people that work for them. My boyfriend is a Steam Fitter and he works for a Company that has maybe ten employees, and they are a Union shop. Your right there are not alot of SOMD union companies, but the kids right out of high school are joining Union companies. Steamfitters, Electricians, Elevators and the list goes on. I mean Local 602 steamfitters, the dc local, has over 2,000 members. Some people can't afford to go to college, amd land a job on base, behind a desk all day. These people are out in the heat like today, and in the rain buiding and repairing.

There are smaller Union companies. Have you ever heard of Southern MD Hydraulics? They are a hydraulic shop in Waldorf by the DMV. They are part of the Operating Engineers Union. They have total of maybe 6 people that work for them. My boyfriend is a Steam Fitter and he works for a Company that has maybe ten employees, and they are a Union shop. Your right there are not alot of SOMD union companies, but the kids right out of high school are joining Union companies. Steamfitters, Electricians, Elevators and the list goes on. I mean Local 602 steamfitters, the dc local, has over 2,000 members. Some people can't afford to go to college, amd land a job on base, behind a desk all day. These people are out in the heat like today, and in the rain buiding and repairing.

I know well there are a few scattered about and I have friends in some of them...or that were at one time or other anyway. One guy, used to bartend for me part time, has been a union electrician his entire career and is retiring soon. But its the exception and becoming more so over time. BTW..I know SoMD hydraulics very well..they've kept my ancient 1958 backhoe operating by rebuilding the cylinders for about ever. ;-)

As a business owner, my fundamental problem with many unions is their sense of arrogance and limitless entitlement. They are always entitled to more and could care less where the money for that is supposed to magically come from. ITs certainly no accident that the ONLY sector of employment where the union roles are not in steady decline are the public sector jobs. Why?..because that is the only sector where the money really does grow on trees and business economics and good practices are irrelevant. (ignoring that the trees are also called taxpayers..)

Let me set the record straight. I was in my first year last year and was threatened after taking 16 hours of off time in 8 months with a memo to the record. The company has a 3 personal day events per month policy, so I asked "how's that possible? I took two days off for being sick the entire 8 months and I might get a memo?" Their response: "were looking at hours now".. Complete crap. From what I understand from those who've been here 20 years or more, before the union showed up, they were getting 15.00 an hour and got threatened and belittled every day. Occaisionally, it still happens. Since the union cane in, it's been strides better. Now I don't complain and I'm not greedy, but not everyone knows this, but the company has said that if they had it their way, they'd take AWAY pay AND vacation from us because "you don't deserve it. Yes, sometimes a union is a good thing. Every time I see a jet fly over my house, I know we put it there. And the company thinks we don't deserve anything? That's where were coming from.

Anyone ever work for a company that doesnt give ANY sick days? DynCorp doesnt. They make you take vacation time instead. What if youre in your first year and dont get any vacation time yet? Tough, you dont get paid. Heres another little catch 22- they can punish you for taking too many unpaid days off. Sound fair? Not to me either. I dont think its whining to want something the general public already has.

Yeah, so what's your point? A lot of private sector companies have no paid sick days. No vacation time? Oh well, do some OT or ask for comp time. Every DynCorp employee has stated how "vital" and "crucial" they are to the company, well guess what? Your company has customers and if too many of you "vital" employees take a bunch of unpaid days resulting in lost productivity (union employees may need to look that word up) then your customers (read: your paychecks) are going to go elsewhere some how some way.

I have worked as a civilian here since 1996. Four different companies, and not one gave sick time. PTO is the norm, no matter what the union folks think. Looking around, I see that there is a national liberal push for sick leave for everyone. As someone noted, this has to be paid for, and that money comes from somewhere. Would you be willing to take say 75 hours PTO and 5 hours sick time?

As for unions driving a better standard of living, lets tour Detroit, that is the one place that unions ruled all, right? Seems if unions made life better, Detroit would be a paradise, right?

A number of folks (like myself) have acknowledged that DynCorp has never had a reputation for being an 'employee friendly' company overall and, lets face it, all companies like that will have some supervisors/managers whose people skillz are quite absent. I've been in business here since the 80s and we've certainly had our share of 'disgruntled DynCorp employees' fill out job applications.

And we've had a few that left to go work for DynCorp too and that was back long before they became a union shop. LOL. Something about grass being greener...

And companies change too..for the better or the worse. I remember a small little company called VEDA..they were a superb little outfit and hungry...

It's interesting to read the posts that people of the local community make concerning something that most don't even know about.

Union labor is not something old around here, in fact it is still very young to the Southern Maryland area. Unions employ a Democratic principle that allows employees to strive for better wages, benefits and working conditions. Frankly after living in this area for close to 20 years I don't understand why more of you out there haven't Unionized.

Everyday I see people who drive cars that should be in the junk yard, live in homes that are in bad need of repair or just can't afford some of the better things in life. Unions, drive the wage up in areas where they are established. The AWD (Average Wage Determination) for the area responds in growth based on the prevailing wages. So, if the wage goes up for the Union worker so does the wage for everyone else who works a job that receives compensation based on the AWD.

As an example of what a Union can do, lets examine the DynCorp facility at Solomon MD. Three (3) years ago a Union drive was made there (at the same time the DynCorp folks at Patuxent River Unionized). That drive (Solomon's) failed by a very narrow margin, but because of the success of the Pax River folks, wages at Solomon's went up $6.00/hr over night. Now I am no math expert but that equates to $12,000+ dollars more a year in income based just on a fear of Unionizing (imagine where they would be today in pay if they had Unionized).

Everyone benefits, infact are you aware that most Civil Service workers at Pax are Unionized and have been for a long time.

Don't beat down the Union just because you don't understand it. I for one am glad I am a part of the IAM and I fight everyday to make it's position even stronger.

If you work in a trade that could be Unionized you should be asking for representation. Why would you settle for a lesser wage or benefit, one designed to keep you enslaved to your employer just so you can make ends meet, when you could be making better wages and benefits that will afford you a better life style.

Hea, if you want to live in the basement that's your choice, me I prefer a room with a view.

How's that union thing working out with the employment rates and the cost of living in, oh say Detroit? Yeah man that's the spirit! Stick it to the man so he has to pay out more benefits therefore increasing operating costs and driving down profit which equals the ability, or lack thereof, to hire new employees, purchase new equipment etc.

"I don't care that they can't repair or replace this 20 year old piece of unsafe, obsolete equipment, I got my 3 paid sick days a quarter!"

How's that union thing working out with the employment rates and the cost of living in, oh say Detroit? Yeah man that's the spirit! Stick it to the man so he has to pay out more benefits therefore increasing operating costs and driving down profit which equals the ability, or lack thereof, to hire new employees, purchase new equipment etc.

"I don't care that they can't repair or replace this 20 year old piece of unsafe, obsolete equipment, I got my 3 paid sick days a quarter!"

I keep thinking about the steel industry of my youth, how the union familes use to lord it over everyone how they could piss on the man and get away with it. Then the man found a more profitable way to make money and closed all those plants.
Priced themselves and a lot of secondary businesses out of jobs.

I think I.A.M stand for I'm A Moron. I.A.M needs to stop being greedy. DynCorp has great benifits. At least they have vacaction. Most jobs don't. They get paid great. If they go on strike is I.A.M going to pay for my health insurance, rent, groceries, and etc... No they are not.

When a company shows a profit of 20.7% (FY10 = $785.2 million, FY11= $947.5 million) in the first quarter and a 300% increase in cash available (again first quarter), according to SEC filings for the first quarter for 2011, then, they the company, can certainly offer better increases in wages, and better terms in benefits packages. It's not a question of greed but if you are happy to have the "Robber Barons" back from the 1800's and early 1900's then by all means don't Unionize. Companies are currently making vast fortunes for the stock holders because of massive lay-off and cut backs.

But, I must also remember that I am answering the response of a SoccerMom (if you are one) who has likely not worked a day in her life and has fed off the hard working guy she married. Hea, kick the guy out every morning so he can slave for poor wages and benefits while you stay home and watch the soaps (otherwise known as educational TV while munching Bon Bon's))

When a company shows a profit of 20.7% (FY10 = $785.2 million, FY11= $947.5 million) in the first quarter and a 300% increase in cash available (again first quarter), according to SEC filings for the first quarter for 2011, then, they the company, can certainly offer better increases in wages, and better terms in benefits packages. It's not a question of greed but if you are happy to have the "Robber Barons" back from the 1800's and early 1900's then by all means don't Unionize. Companies are currently making vast fortunes for the stock holders because of massive lay-off and cut backs.

But, I must also remember that I am answering the response of a SoccerMom (if you are one) who has likely not worked a day in her life and has fed off the hard working guy she married. Hea, kick the guy out every morning so he can slave for poor wages and benefits while you stay home and watch the soaps (otherwise known as educational TV while munching Bon Bon's))


Alright....I've stayed out of this because I can see both sides.....but GMAFB...poor wages? hardly

When a company shows a profit of 20.7% (FY10 = $785.2 million, FY11= $947.5 million) in the first quarter and a 300% increase in cash available (again first quarter), according to SEC filings for the first quarter for 2011, then, they the company, can certainly offer better increases in wages, and better terms in benefits packages. It's not a question of greed but if you are happy to have the "Robber Barons" back from the 1800's and early 1900's then by all means don't Unionize. Companies are currently making vast fortunes for the stock holders because of massive lay-off and cut backs.

But, I must also remember that I am answering the response of a SoccerMom (if you are one) who has likely not worked a day in her life and has fed off the hard working guy she married. Hea, kick the guy out every morning so he can slave for poor wages and benefits while you stay home and watch the soaps (otherwise known as educational TV while munching Bon Bon's))

I'm sure you do not care, but reading your lead in, I'm thinking: " Hmm..OK..there appears to be room for some employee consideration in those results..yes indeed.."...

..and then you quickly descended from there in to that hopelessly bogus and worn out canard "without unions we'd all be working 12 hours for 5 cents an hour" and then proceeded from there to commit one of the worst internet sins of all: To presume that you actually know a single damned personal thing about an anonymous poster and then actually craft a personal attack on them from that nonexistent baseline. Generalities are one thing..but you cannot have the slightest clue about who I or anyone else on here is..really.

But, I must also remember that I am answering the response of a SoccerMom (if you are one) who has likely not worked a day in her life and has fed off the hard working guy she married. Hea, kick the guy out every morning so he can slave for poor wages and benefits while you stay home and watch the soaps (otherwise known as educational TV while munching Bon Bon's))

With replies like this it's no wonder why there is such disdain for union crybabies.

Slave wages? Your kidding right? When I worked for Dyn as an AW, aircraft worker, it was about $15 an hour or so, in the late 90s. Or 32K a year. Now, an AW is not far from the bottom of the ladder. I left there in 2000, to a job I stayed in for eight years. In 2008, when I moved on from that next job, I went back to the Dyna shop I used to work in, to let a couple of them, ones I considered qualified to do that job I was leaving. Mentioned they could expect to make in the area of 70K. They told me that would be a pay cut. These were AWs like I was. Over 70 puts you in the $35 an hour range. Hardly slave wages.

Slave wages? Your kidding right? When I worked for Dyn as an AW, aircraft worker, it was about $15 an hour or so, in the late 90s. Or 32K a year. Now, an AW is not far from the bottom of the ladder. I left there in 2000, to a job I stayed in for eight years. In 2008, when I moved on from that next job, I went back to the Dyna shop I used to work in, to let a couple of them, ones I considered qualified to do that job I was leaving. Mentioned they could expect to make in the area of 70K. They told me that would be a pay cut. These were AWs like I was. Over 70 puts you in the $35 an hour range. Hardly slave wages.

15 to 35 an hour in less than 10 years. What a crap company...

We have a couple engineers making around 35/hour (salaried..but thats what the hourly rate works out to be)...one of them has not gotten a raise in over 6 years. Read: He should be earning a LOT more based on published salary data. Why is he so 'stupid' to stay? He likes his job and his position and knows that another like it would be very hard to find. He knows the company has had quite a few bad years out of the last 10 but he's confident in our survival and ultimate future success. He's betting on it and he's personally invested in it. Weird concept, huh?:popcorn: It got him a 10K lump sum bonus last year..which was a good year.

Now I'm not so naive as to think DynCorp would reward that kind of employee contribution/sacrifice. The probably never will nor could. But to suggest that nothing good ever comes about without a union..I can prove that wrong five ways to Sunday just with my own 25 years of running non-union companies.

When a company shows a profit of 20.7% (FY10 = $785.2 million, FY11= $947.5 million) in the first quarter and a 300% increase in cash available (again first quarter), according to SEC filings for the first quarter for 2011, then, they the company, can certainly offer better increases in wages, and better terms in benefits packages. It's not a question of greed but if you are happy to have the "Robber Barons" back from the 1800's and early 1900's then by all means don't Unionize. Companies are currently making vast fortunes for the stock holders because of massive lay-off and cut backs.

But, I must also remember that I am answering the response of a SoccerMom (if you are one) who has likely not worked a day in her life and has fed off the hard working guy she married. Hea, kick the guy out every morning so he can slave for poor wages and benefits while you stay home and watch the soaps (otherwise known as educational TV while munching Bon Bon's))

Hey there sir, why don't you offer to give up your slave wages to go and tend to her kids. I am sure the benefits are great, but they do not include pay! I am sure you would get to lay around in bed when sick and get paid for it. :whistle: You wouldn't have to worry about getting up and feeding the kids because all sexist pigs know that they take care of themselves. No worries! :whistle:
Although you may be a jet mech you do not know #### about what the stay at home parent does. Get an effing clue!

People in this county are afraid of change. Alot of folks in this county know nothing about "going on strike" just what you read on the internet. As an "insider" with this union talk, the company will break down and give up within a week or two. Just watch...

So, 8 hours a year more than industry standard isnt enough, more than doubling wages in 10 years isnt enough. See, that seems to be the issue with unions, there's no such thing as enough, not until the company goes under becuase they cant afford anymore.

Please, educate us, what dont we know about the strike thing.

So, 8 hours a year more than industry standard isnt enough, more than doubling wages in 10 years isnt enough. See, that seems to be the issue with unions, there's no such thing as enough, not until the company goes under becuase they cant afford anymore.

Please, educate us, what dont we know about the strike thing.

How high has cost of living gone up in the last 10 years? Goes prices skyrocketed among everything else. Hell, even food prices have soared. Unless you make a million a year you are feeling the pinch as well. Do not sit there and say that your not.

People in this county are afraid of change. Alot of folks in this county know nothing about "going on strike" just what you read on the internet. As an "insider" with this union talk, the company will break down and give up within a week or two. Just watch...

You have been in this county..and with DynCorp..how long?

How high has cost of living gone up in the last 10 years? .

Weird. I was pulling down more ..or more correctly..lets call it the same amount..in 1999 as I do today. Not 'adjusted' or anything..same in simpole total dollars. That's 11 years. I'm doing just fine. What did I miss?

You have been in this county..and with DynCorp..how long?

Been in this county since 99'.

I have been with this company long enough. Let's just put it that way. :0

Weird. I was pulling down more ..or more correctly..lets call it the same amount..in 1999 as I do today. Not 'adjusted' or anything..same in simpole total dollars. That's 11 years. I'm doing just fine. What did I miss?

Is your home paid off? Is your vehicle paid off? Just curious.

Been in this county since 99'.

I have been with this company long enough. Let's just put it that way. :0

'99 huh? :killingme I won my first omnibus contract on base in '87..after leaving the gummint side where I worked before that.

But I'm sure you know a lot more about the contracting environment than I ever will. ;-)

People in this county are afraid of change. Alot of folks in this county know nothing about "going on strike" just what you read on the internet. As an "insider" with this union talk, the company will break down and give up within a week or two. Just watch...

I watched my mom go on strike, the union promised strike pay and expected them daily on the picket line. Guess what not even unions follow through on their promises. Their explanation for no funds, whoops the big strike in that lasted months in California used up all the strike funds sorry about that. Afraid of change? Are you nuts? The union is an old non-efficient system, they are the ones afraid of change. Ask all the auto workers :shrug: Ask all the unemployed Boeing & Northrup workers. The company will settle just to get back to work, meanwhile looking for other locations to set up their plants and headquarters.

Is your home paid off? Is your vehicle paid off? Just curious.

Nope. Well the vehicles are (9)..boats too..(7)..but definitely not the ole mortgage.

'99 huh? :killingme I won my first omnibus contract on base in '87..after leaving the gummint side where I worked before that.

But I'm sure you know a lot more about the contracting environment than I ever will. ;-)


Why so snippy? Lol...

Yes 99' I apologize that I am not a 75 yr old "good ol' boy". Gotta start young somehow.

Weird. I was pulling down more ..or more correctly..lets call it the same amount..in 1999 as I do today. Not 'adjusted' or anything..same in simpole total dollars. That's 11 years. I'm doing just fine. What did I miss?

The added expense of cell phones, computer(s), cable TV, internet and the like? We didn't have those expenses in 1999.

The added expense of cell phones, computer(s), cable TV, internet and the like? We didn't have those expenses in 1999.

Plus the cost of living isn't the cheapest either. I moved here in 2004. My rent was 585.00 a month. Till we bought our house last year our rent was 1200.00. For a crappy 1000 sq foot apartment. That's what we pay for our mortgage now.

How high has cost of living gone up in the last 10 years? Goes prices skyrocketed among everything else. Hell, even food prices have soared. Unless you make a million a year you are feeling the pinch as well. Do not sit there and say that your not.

Nope, no pinch at all. Has the cost of living doubled in 10 years? I dont think so. I certainly dont make a mil a year, but I am not pinched. A few folks on here know me personally and can vouch for that. And that I dont make anywhere near a mil.

Leave benefits I've encountered when shopping for a position, including the companies I ended up working at, ranged from 10 to 15 days of PTO to start. Very fair. If you stayed at any of these companies it would grow as time passed. If you were there beyond 7-10 years the leave earned was usually in excess of 25-30 days per year.

I've NEVER worked in any unionized company. Despite that, I've always found great places to work that paid a fair and honest wage for the position. Benefits packages were generous, leave was reasonable to extremely generous. In general, if you are valuable to the company you work for they will usually work to keep you.

I have noticed that unionized places tend to be a bit on the faceless side when it comes to evaluating performance and impact. They also tend toward mediocrity and a sense of entitlement.

Quote I loved from one who was being chastised for slacking: "You don't expect me to work the whole eight hours, do you?"

Can't say I'd ever want to work for the outfit you describe and believe you picked a lemon of a company and union to work.

Good luck in your future ventures.

P.S. Pray your Unions candidate doesn't gut the military, as Democrats love to do. If that happens, your union jobs will disappear just as fast as all the non-union positions. Then how appealing will two weeks paid leave and those paychecks seem?

Plus the cost of living isn't the cheapest either. I moved here in 2004. My rent was 585.00 a month. Till we bought our house last year our rent was 1200.00. For a crappy 1000 sq foot apartment. That's what we pay for our mortgage now.

If you had bought in 2004 your payment would probably still be around the 700 area.

Companies shouldn't be responsible for decisions we made.

We have to buckle in and start cutting expenses where we can.

Yeah, so what's your point? A lot of private sector companies have no paid sick days. No vacation time? Oh well, do some OT or ask for comp time. Every DynCorp employee has stated how "vital" and "crucial" they are to the company, well guess what? Your company has customers and if too many of you "vital" employees take a bunch of unpaid days resulting in lost productivity (union employees may need to look that word up) then your customers (read: your paychecks) are going to go elsewhere some how some way.

I get that, but if youre sick and have something communicable, dont you think that has more of an impact on the company overall? I do. Im not saying there arent those that abuse it either, not unlike every other company.

I never said I wasnt happy with what I have. Lets not turn it into that by trying to read into my character through a few clearly misinterpreted words. This is my only peeve. DynCorp doesnt use the term "PTO" in any of its language, nor has ever informed any employee that the intent of the term "vacation" was to include true "vacations and "sick days" out of the same pot. Thats why the issue was brought up in the first place. And DynCorp does not have comp time. You cant "work it out".

Again, as I said before, my main complaint is forcing first year members into possible disciplinary situation for taking unpaid time off when if you get sick, what choice do you have?

But what are you going to give up for this? Negotiations are give and take, if you want something without giving up something else you're now making demands.

I think we already do..

1). The requirement to deploy at a moments notice if needed to anywhere for as long as the company sees fit, including ships, as needed.

2). To assist other shops that have over 80 people in them by gaining qualifications required by their shops to maintain aircraft because they dont demand they support their own.

3). Listening to them bark and complain at you that youre not doing your job when some schmuck dreams up some undocumented requirement out of the obscure past and cant support the requirement with documentation- because it doesnt exist...

4). Belittling and barbaric comments to fellow workers before researching the issues at hand..... almost daily...

I could go on and on, but its pointless

Im of the mindset that a lot of that stuff rolls off. Some arent as able I guess.

The fact of the matter- DynCorp gets paid whether I work or not (fact), so I
dont think its selfish or whiney to wish for a couple sick days for the new folk. And it doesnt matter to me personally anymore, since Im beyond that, it was just a bad experience for me. Someone else will share the bad experience if it isnt fixed. Thats all Im getting at here.

2). To assist other shops that have over 80 people in them by gaining qualifications required by their shops to maintain aircraft because they dont demand they support their own.

3). Listening to them bark and complain at you that youre not doing your job when some schmuck dreams up some undocumented requirement out of the obscure past and cant support the requirement with documentation- because it doesnt exist...



You must have worked where I work now. That's all I gotta say bout that. :evil:

If you had bought in 2004 your payment would probably still be around the 700 area.



Companies shouldn't be responsible for decisions we made.



We have to buckle in and start cutting expenses where we can.


If I was financially secure in 2004 I would have had no problem buying a house. My main priority at that time was finding a job, building my career and and putting away money so I could buy a nice house and have exactly what I wanted, with the payment that I wanted. I'm glad I waited to buy a house. I got a awesome house for a steal literally. Had I bought in 2004 I probably would have paid at least a 100k more then what I paid.

Being the fun state Maryland is, it's only a matter of time before they require companies to pay sick leave separate. Some states are working on legislation that it's a requirement for employers to provide paid sick leave.

I totally agree.. However... How about starting with welfare leaches.

Look guys (gender neutral), my intent with my original post was to try to figure out the feelings about what to expect from a strike by DynCorp employees on everyone else involved within our flight test community here at Pax. I really don't care about whether they are union or not. Obviously, if there was no union in play here, a strike wouldn't be either.

I didn't want to do this, but I'll give you my two pennys. Flight test is tricky. The search and rescue squadron is within the Dyn contract. If Dyn goes on strike SaR can't fly. If SaR can't fly, there will be no test flights. Not JSF, not P-8, absolutly no flight test. That concept worries me greatly because I'm involved with this.

Please, lets keep the bashing of each other out of this and give me your honest thoughts.

Thanks

Slave wages? Your kidding right? When I worked for Dyn as an AW, aircraft worker, it was about $15 an hour or so, in the late 90s. Or 32K a year. Now, an AW is not far from the bottom of the ladder. I left there in 2000, to a job I stayed in for eight years. In 2008, when I moved on from that next job, I went back to the Dyna shop I used to work in, to let a couple of them, ones I considered qualified to do that job I was leaving. Mentioned they could expect to make in the area of 70K. They told me that would be a pay cut. These were AWs like I was. Over 70 puts you in the $35 an hour range. Hardly slave wages.

I am sorry, but this is a gross exaggeration. AW's in 2006 were making just over $18 dollars an hour. When the Union began in 2007, that wage went up 19.2% to about $21.50, and then subsequent years saw a 3% increase, so that the wage for that position now sits a few cents shy of $23 an hour. That comes to $47.5K a year. HARDLY the $70K your source quoted to you. So this talk of the pay doubling within 10 years is not accurate. Even when you include fringe, that brings the amount to approx. $56k a year.

However, that is before taxes and deductions. While $56k a year sounds pretty good, after you deduct the cost of company provided health insurance, federal and state taxes, and any other deductions, I would average the actual take home pay to be somewhere in the mid to upper $30k range. Maybe very low $40k depending on the type of health insurance coverage the employee has, and how their exemptions work out.

(Late edit)

Also, to say that what they are making now is close to the top of the ladder is a gross exaggeration as well. What AW's are making now is around the area I was making when I first started with DynCorp just before the Union was voted in, and my job classification is Aircraft Mechanic (AM).

P.S. Pray your Unions candidate doesn't gut the military, as Democrats love to do. If that happens, your union jobs will disappear just as fast as all the non-union positions. Then how appealing will two weeks paid leave and those paychecks seem?

Emm...its not the union that is doing or will do that...SecDef Gates just announced that it will happen. A fairly dramatic reduction in contractor support and a corresponding (theoretically) increas in DoD employees has been ordered.

The 'buzz buzz' now amongst all the CEOs of contactor companies is 'how much is this new directive gonna hurt us?" Nobody know yet what it really means in practice.

My apologies then, I had two AWs and one AM lie to me, then. Maybe becuase they didnt want to look like they wanted to leave? Cant say. If I was making 50K, and someone told me they would recommend me to fill their job at 70K, it would be a shoo-in, I cant imagine why they would lie and say they didnt need it. So thats why I believed them. I still say 56K is not bad for a shop level wrench turning guy, not a supervisory position. And a %20 increase in one year is a pretty big boost.

I am sorry, but this is a gross exaggeration. AW's in 2006 were making just over $18 dollars an hour. When the Union began in 2007, that wage went up 19.2% to about $21.50, and then subsequent years saw a 3% increase, so that the wage for that position now sits a few cents shy of $23 an hour. That comes to $47.5K a year. HARDLY the $70K your source quoted to you. ).

And since I used that increase in one of my posts..thank you for correcting it with real numbers. Those make more 'sense' and I agree..you are hard pressed to live on 47K a year in SoMD unless yr single...

Yea - it's called PTO. Most companies have changed to PTO. Paid sick leave + paid vacation is going the way of the dodo bird. When we first changed to PTO almost 10 years ago, I whined like you guys but just like you, I had an alternative but chose not to take it.

Hang on a minute, bucko. I spent most of my adult life working for companies that did not offer benefits, period. The only benefit you got from them was: if you went to work, you got paid.

I worked for more than one company that closed the shop for 2 weeks a year in the summer. The families that owned the businesses went to Mexico for vacation, and the rest of us did side work to keep money coming in. No paid vacation, no sick days, no paid holidays. And oh, by the way, that's where I learned to hate holidays. Thanksgiving? Bah! A day in the middle of the week where we were closed, had to come back on Friday and Saturday, which were typically slow days, and so we didn't make much money after making no money for the holiday.

If we weren't at work, we didn't get paid. That's what I mean when I say working without benefits.

But, I must also remember that I am answering the response of a SoccerMom (if you are one) who has likely not worked a day in her life and has fed off the hard working guy she married. Hea, kick the guy out every morning so he can slave for poor wages and benefits while you stay home and watch the soaps (otherwise known as educational TV while munching Bon Bon's))

Dang, that's cold. You're really young, aren't you?

Hang on a minute, bucko. I spent most of my adult life working for companies that did not offer benefits, period. The only benefit you got from them was: if you went to work, you got paid.

I worked for more than one company that closed the shop for 2 weeks a year in the summer. The families that owned the businesses went to Mexico for vacation, and the rest of us did side work to keep money coming in. No paid vacation, no sick days, no paid holidays. And oh, by the way, that's where I learned to hate holidays. Thanksgiving? Bah! A day in the middle of the week where we were closed, had to come back on Friday and Saturday, which were typically slow days, and so we didn't make much money after making no money for the holiday.

If we weren't at work, we didn't get paid. That's what I mean when I say working without benefits.

But could you afford shoes? ...or did you, like I, walk 10 miles to work every day bare foot, 100-degrees out, in 2 foot deep snow, uphill both ways

15 to 35 an hour in less than 10 years. What a crap company...

We have a couple engineers making around 35/hour (salaried..but thats what the hourly rate works out to be)...one of them has not gotten a raise in over 6 years. Read: He should be earning a LOT more based on published salary data. Why is he so 'stupid' to stay? He likes his job and his position and knows that another like it would be very hard to find. He knows the company has had quite a few bad years out of the last 10 but he's confident in our survival and ultimate future success. He's betting on it and he's personally invested in it. Weird concept, huh?:popcorn: It got him a 10K lump sum bonus last year..which was a good year.

Now I'm not so naive as to think DynCorp would reward that kind of employee contribution/sacrifice. The probably never will nor could. But to suggest that nothing good ever comes about without a union..I can prove that wrong five ways to Sunday just with my own 25 years of running non-union companies.

There's no question that the union movement in this country has driven wages and benefits upward. There aren't too many who feel that without a union movement in this country, there would only be 2 classes: the wealthy, and everyone else. You know, like where we're heading, and where we once were in this country. Most people who study these things agree that the middle class as we know it would probably not exist without unions.

I've already made it clear: though I've been, and as a gov't employee still technically am union, I'm not a fan of them.

In most areas of this country, the vast majority of businesses, large and small, have been competing against the unions for almost a 100 years, whether they realize it or not. Most of them do not realize it, but it's always there. If you require a skilled labor force, you make a decent profit (ie more than normal profits), then you need to compensate your workforce accordingly. If you don't, but you're the only game in town, there's always the threat of your workers unionizing. Don't want that to happen? Do what companies usually have done since the unions became entrenched: compensate better.

Don't forget: greed is always on the agenda, and it's not just the unions. The unions would never have gained a foothold if it weren't the lust for more money and more power on the part of companies. Detroit would still be a fair city if it weren't for the companies' greed above all else. Yeah, the unions ultimately lost that battle in Detroit, and Pittsburg, but it was a never-ending game of a kind of oneupsmanship.

But could you afford shoes? ...or did you, like I, walk 10 miles to work every day bare foot, 100-degrees out, in 2 foot deep snow, uphill both ways

No shoes, but I could always afford beer! :buddies:

When a company shows a profit of 20.7% (FY10 = $785.2 million, FY11= $947.5 million) in the first quarter and a 300% increase in cash available (again first quarter), according to SEC filings for the first quarter for 2011, then, they the company, can certainly offer better increases in wages, and better terms in benefits packages. It's not a question of greed but if you are happy to have the "Robber Barons" back from the 1800's and early 1900's then by all means don't Unionize. Companies are currently making vast fortunes for the stock holders because of massive lay-off and cut backs.

But, I must also remember that I am answering the response of a SoccerMom (if you are one) who has likely not worked a day in her life and has fed off the hard working guy she married. Hea, kick the guy out every morning so he can slave for poor wages and benefits while you stay home and watch the soaps (otherwise known as educational TV while munching Bon Bon's))

Wow, you are stupid. I have worked for many years.I stopped working to raise my kids. I can do that because my husband gets paid good. I don't sit on my a$$ all day watching tv. I run a house hold. I make sure everyone is take in care of just like my husband does. I might not bring money into the house but when my husband comes home from work he has a hot meal waiting for him and clean clothes. Oh and im going back to school so when my youngest starts school i can go back to work. It is a choice we made that works for my family.

Wow, you are stupid. I have worked for many years.I stopped working to raise my kids. I can do that because my husband gets paid good. I don't sit on my a$$ all day watching tv. I run a house hold. I make sure everyone is take in care of just like my husband does. I might not bring money into the house but when my husband comes home from work he has a hot meal waiting for him and clean clothes. Oh and im going back to school so when my youngest starts school i can go back to work. It is a choice we made that works for my family.

Mark Twain said "youth is wasted on the young." I say "the young are, by definition, stupid." Especially us young males.

Okay, not so young anymore, but I've learned not to say stuff like he said.

:buddies:

Mark Twain said "youth is wasted on the young." I say "the young are, by definition, stupid." Especially us young males.

Okay, not so young anymore, but I've learned not to say stuff like he said.

:buddies:

:buddies:

I know well there are a few scattered about and I have friends in some of them...or that were at one time or other anyway. One guy, used to bartend for me part time, has been a union electrician his entire career and is retiring soon. But its the exception and becoming more so over time. BTW..I know SoMD hydraulics very well..they've kept my ancient 1958 backhoe operating by rebuilding the cylinders for about ever. ;-)

As a business owner, my fundamental problem with many unions is their sense of arrogance and limitless entitlement. They are always entitled to more and could care less where the money for that is supposed to magically come from. ITs certainly no accident that the ONLY sector of employment where the union roles are not in steady decline are the public sector jobs. Why?..because that is the only sector where the money really does grow on trees and business economics and good practices are irrelevant. (ignoring that the trees are also called taxpayers..)

See, what gets me is that because of a few bad apples, it makes everybody hate unions. I work for Clark Construction, we get alot of the big jobs in DC, they also have a contract with the Operating Engineers, it lasts three years and then its renewal time, we have never really demanded more, and we also have a no strike clause in our contract.Our contracts usually go right through.And guess what...the operating engineers, the electricians, and the steamfitters, and the carpenters do not have sick leave/vacation time. At Clark only salary people have that. Its up to the company themselves to give you that most of the time. If I'm sick or want to miss a day or two to do something I don't get paid for it. If my union did offer it, I would rather it go into my annuity anyway.
Oh and SOMD hydraulics can rebuild some hydraulic cylinders, they are the best around :)

ok, i have seen it all now. i have been with dyncorp for over 12 years now and i have seen it get progressively better. i can only attribute it to the union because our pay raises were null in void. i really believe that in order to "keep up with the joneses" we had to organize the union. after all , it was one of the head honchos's that told us "if i could pay you less, i would" also, "sick days are for drunks" and you would not get a pay raise this year or next year"....... remember ray!!!!!!!!!!! we all do. the heirarchy of dyncorp trying to sway union votes, seems to me like that backfired. and people. I believe that with the extra money and a extra day of vacation, there were a little more smiling faces at the workplace and it was easier to live and deal with daily bulls*!t. i really cannot see the big deal in people simply negotiatiing in what they truly believe is a reasonable pay wage and trying to pave the future for their families. seems like some have envy here. and you are all right, if we dont like the job, then leave. but since i have a family of 6, i choose not to leave, why, just cos i don't have to, and thank you to our wonderful country, i have the freedom of speech and i am now choosing to use it. thank you to all. all we were simply trying to do is to speak our mind to our company and aid us in our everyday lifestyle. they chose not to, so we did what we had to do. i am one of the originial founding fathers of this union and am proud to say so. i am still a very active part of it and look forward to serving the fellow 900+ members that the general public care nothing about or tell them to stop crying. thank you to all. we will see you on the picket lines.:evil:

ok, i have seen it all now. i have been with dyncorp for over 12 years now and i have seen it get progressively better. i can only attribute it to the union because our pay raises were null in void. i really believe that in order to "keep up with the joneses" we had to organize the union. after all , it was one of the head honchos's that told us "if i could pay you less, i would" also, "sick days are for drunks" and you would not get a pay raise this year or next year"....... remember ray!!!!!!!!!!! we all do. the heirarchy of dyncorp trying to sway union votes, seems to me like that backfired. and people. I believe that with the extra money and a extra day of vacation, there were a little more smiling faces at the workplace and it was easier to live and deal with daily bulls*!t. i really cannot see the big deal in people simply negotiatiing in what they truly believe is a reasonable pay wage and trying to pave the future for their families. seems like some have envy here. and you are all right, if we dont like the job, then leave. but since i have a family of 6, i choose not to leave, why, just cos i don't have to, and thank you to our wonderful country, i have the freedom of speech and i am now choosing to use it. thank you to all. all we were simply trying to do is to speak our mind to our company and aid us in our everyday lifestyle. they chose not to, so we did what we had to do. i am one of the originial founding fathers of this union and am proud to say so. i am still a very active part of it and look forward to serving the fellow 900+ members that the general public care nothing about or tell them to stop crying. thank you to all. we will see you on the picket lines.:evil:

I'm glad you all would put your bickering over some leave while the customer you support...you know, the United States Navy? Their mission effectiveness suffers.....and you can ##### about making 50-70K for being a laborer while the kids that work in the hangar make enough to qualify for WIC....you are really helping your cause...

by the way, i do work in the hanger.........

by the way, i do work in the hanger.........
How much did it cost to buy your own tools?
How much is the uniform laundry service?
How much are union dues?

paid over $600 for my tools, thank you, i know where you were going with that, when we became union, the company started doing our laundry, if we wanted them to and the union dues are roughly $60...... i hope i answered your questions....

paid over $600 for my tools, thank you, i know where you were going with that, when we became union, the company started doing our laundry, if we wanted them to and the union dues are roughly $60...... i hope i answered your questions....

And you got to write off the tools and laundry on your taxes?

$60 per month?

tools was able to do it once, laundry, you cant claim your uniforms if the company is paying for them... and yes roughly 60..

tools was able to do it once, laundry, you cant claim your uniforms if the company is paying for them... and yes roughly 60..

And with the Union, your pay increased how much per hour?

First year was 4.00/hr , second year was .86/hr , third year was .86/hr.

But, I must also remember that I am answering the response of a SoccerMom (if you are one) who has likely not worked a day in her life and has fed off the hard working guy she married. Hea, kick the guy out every morning so he can slave for poor wages and benefits while you stay home and watch the soaps (otherwise known as educational TV while munching Bon Bon's))

You're quite the condescending, chauvinistic, insulting little man, aren't you?

If you actually think the things you just said about a stay at home mother, you're pretty demented.

Wow, you are stupid. I have worked for many years.I stopped working to raise my kids. I can do that because my husband gets paid good. I don't sit on my a$$ all day watching tv. I run a house hold. I make sure everyone is take in care of just like my husband does. I might not bring money into the house but when my husband comes home from work he has a hot meal waiting for him and clean clothes. Oh and im going back to school so when my youngest starts school i can go back to work. It is a choice we made that works for my family.

:huggy:

Of course, it is. It seems like some people here have to result to insults & slurs on other posters in order to feel relevant in a conversation.

:huggy:

Of course, it is. It seems like some people here have to result to insults & slurs on other posters in order to feel relevant in a conversation.

Thanks. There was a website a while back that i found that told me how much a stay at home mom is really worth. Let"s just say i am the one who needs a raise...lmao!

Look guys (gender neutral), my intent with my original post was to try to figure out the feelings about what to expect from a strike by DynCorp employees on everyone else involved within our flight test community here at Pax. I really don't care about whether they are union or not. Obviously, if there was no union in play here, a strike wouldn't be either.

I didn't want to do this, but I'll give you my two pennys. Flight test is tricky. The search and rescue squadron is within the Dyn contract. If Dyn goes on strike SaR can't fly. If SaR can't fly, there will be no test flights. Not JSF, not P-8, absolutly no flight test. That concept worries me greatly because I'm involved with this.

Please, lets keep the bashing of each other out of this and give me your honest thoughts.

Thanks

They'd still fly after a couple of weeks delay at most. Look at it as a rainy couple of weeks with canceled/postponed flights or maintenance time. The PMA has a contingency plan already in place. Don't worry.

In all honesty, so many people think they are irreplacable at their jobs. Everybody is replacable. You ever know a co-worker who puts in so much extra time, work work work work, and they go away for vacation and nobody ever notices they are gone? :shrug:

And the government especially is very adapt and churning and burning and carrying on with business as usual. Remember the government, if not the individuals, has seen everything before and knows how to work through these type of things.

I'm not concerned and my job is dependent on flights going off as scheduled as well.

When a company shows a profit of 20.7% (FY10 = $785.2 million, FY11= $947.5 million) in the first quarter and a 300% increase in cash available (again first quarter), according to SEC filings for the first quarter for 2011, then, they the company, can certainly offer better increases in wages, and better terms in benefits packages. It's not a question of greed but if you are happy to have the "Robber Barons" back from the 1800's and early 1900's then by all means don't Unionize. Companies are currently making vast fortunes for the stock holders because of massive lay-off and cut backs.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think you should learn how to read those quarterly reports and/or learn what profit is (versus, say, revenue), so that you don't report plainly erroneous information like this. Despite my not knowing much about Dyncorp these days (though my brother did work there for about 15 years and seemed happy to), I knew immediately that those numbers couldn't be correct. As it turns out, they are very much not.

Dyncorp didn't make a profit of 20.7% in the first quarter of FY2011, its profit didn't even increase my 20.7% year over year, if that's what you meant to say. Its revenue increased by 20.7% year over year - meaning, the company had more work (primarily the LOGCAP IV contract). Its cost of services (e.g. employee pay and benefits, materials) increased even more than that (22.7%) - meaning, because it had more work, it had to pay more for employees, for materials, etc.

Its net profit actually decreased from the first quarter of FY2010 to the first quarter of FY2011 - DECREASED, by close to 30%. Further, its profit margin for Q1 FY2011 was about 2%, not 20%. That was down from about 3% for 1Q FY2010.

A company that generated almost $1 Billion in revenue got to keep less than $20 million in profit. (Damn Robber Barons!) If anything, Dyncorp seems to have a problem with controlling costs (e.g. employee compensation), not with being too stingy in that regard. There's certainly not much blood left in the turnip to increase employee compensation (pay and benefits) - it's barely profitable as it is.

Additionally, cash available did not increase by 300% year over year. Operating cash flow did. Those are very - and I mean VERY - different things. The latter metric is often the result of things that don't speak profoundly to the health or profitability of the company. For instance, it can reflect a net conversion of accounts receivable assets to cash and cash equivalents. In this case, the greater operating cash flow (1Q FY2011 vs. 1Q FY 2010) essentially reflected more timely receipt of payment by DynCorp (its DSO decreased more from 4Q FY2010 to 1Q FY2011 than it did from 4Q FY 2009 to 1Q FY 2010). Operating cash flow, by itself, just doesn't tell you much about a business - it's certainly not an indication of profit. A company can have negative OCF in a quarter while having positive profits, and vice versa. You'll often find significant swings in OCF even when a company's profits and revenues remain consistent. I can't remember the last time I paid attention to operating cash flow in a quarterly report, except when there was fear of insolvency or a liquidity crunch.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think you should learn how to read those quarterly reports and/or learn what profit is (versus, say, revenue), so that you don't report plainly erroneous information like this. Despite my not knowing much about Dyncorp these days (though my brother did work there for about 15 years and seemed happy to), I knew immediately that those numbers couldn't be correct. As it turns out, they are very much not.

Dyncorp didn't make a profit of 20.7% in the first quarter of FY2011, its profit didn't even increase my 20.7% year over year, if that's what you meant to say. Its revenue increased by 20.7% year over year - meaning, the company had more work (primarily the LOGCAP IV contract). Its cost of services (e.g. employee pay and benefits, materials) increased even more than that (22.7%) - meaning, because it had more work, it had to pay more for employees, for materials, etc.

Its net profit actually decreased from the first quarter of FY2010 to the first quarter of FY2011 - DECREASED, by close to 30%. Further, its profit margin for Q1 FY2011 was about 2%, not 20%. That was down from about 3% for 1Q FY2010.

A company that generated almost $1 Billion in revenue got to keep less than $20 million in profit. (Damn Robber Barons!) If anything, Dyncorp seems to have a problem with controlling costs (e.g. employee compensation), not with being too stingy in that regard. There's certainly not much blood left in the turnip to increase employee compensation (pay and benefits) - it's barely profitable as it is.

Additionally, cash available did not increase by 300% year over year. Operating cash flow did. Those are very - and I mean VERY - different things. The latter metric is often the result of things that don't speak profoundly to the health or profitability of the company. For instance, it can reflect a net conversion of accounts receivable assets to cash and cash equivalents. In this case, the greater operating cash flow (1Q FY2011 vs. 1Q FY 2010) essentially reflected more timely receipt of payment by DynCorp (its DSO decreased more from 4Q FY2010 to 1Q FY2011 than it did from 4Q FY 2009 to 1Q FY 2010). Operating cash flow, by itself, just doesn't tell you much about a business - it's certainly not an indication of profit. A company can have negative OCF in a quarter while having positive profits, and vice versa. You'll often find significant swings in OCF even when a company's profits and revenues remain consistent. I can't remember the last time I paid attention to operating cash flow in a quarterly report, except when there was fear of insolvency or a liquidity crunch.
There you go again ruining a perfectly good anti-business rant based on stupidity with facts. You are such a buzz kill.

Dyncorp profited $1B? Bwahahahahahaha :killingme

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think you should learn how to read those quarterly reports.

Thank you for going through that exercise and posting the results. As the owner of a company that has been in the same sector for over 25 years..I knew the numbers had to have been at the least misinterpreted.

And yes, it appears that DynCorp is in the same sorry hole that many others now find themselves in ...barely eaking out enough actual profit to even survive. And EXACTLY the reason why my company no longer responds to any teaming requests (we used to get many); we refuse to work for free..or so close to free that the risks are too high. It's simply not worth it; you miss managing one bean to the nth degree and you lose money instead of making any.

There you go again ruining a perfectly good anti-business rant based on stupidity with facts. You are such a buzz kill.

Dyncorp profited $1B? Bwahahahahahaha :killingme

You should see me on the golf course. 'Bull#### Frank, you did not finally break 80. You took a mulligan on the first hole. You shot 81. Better luck next time.'

Thank you for going through that exercise and posting the results. As the owner of a company that has been in the same sector for over 25 years..I knew the numbers had to have been at the least misinterpreted.

And yes, it appears that DynCorp is in the same sorry hole that many others now find themselves in ...barely eaking out enough actual profit to even survive. And EXACTLY the reason why my company no longer responds to any teaming requests (we used to get many); we refuse to work for free..or so close to free that the risks are too high. It's simply not worth it; you miss managing one bean to the nth degree and you lose money instead of making any.

You're welcome.

There aren't a ton of companies making billion dollar quarterly profits, and even fewer doing so with 20% margins. For a company that gets the bulk of its revenues (I assume) through large scale bid-ed service contracts, it would be especially difficult to do that. There'd be too much meat left on the bone and someone would be more than willing to take less of that meat. If Dyncorp employees aren't being compensated enough, it's because the government isn't willing (or doesn't) pay enough for the services they are rendering - it's not because the middleman is keeping too much of the action for themselves. (I'm not inclined to believe that storyline either - that the government isn't willing to pay enough for the services rendered - but I'll admit to not knowing the specifics here enough to have a meaningful definitive opinion.)

:buddies:

(I'm not inclined to believe that storyline either - that the government isn't willing to pay enough for the services rendered - but I'll admit to not knowing the specifics here enough to have a meaningful definitive opinion.)

:buddies:

Woa there..the government is legally excluded from being 'willing to pay enough'. There are virtually no contracts left where merit (in any form) is allowed to have enough weight to make the slightest impact in the award decision; only cost is considered. Cheapest bid package wins the prize.

Without getting in to the weeds, there are theoretically various review criteria that are 'supposed' to expose flaws in the bid package as they relate to technical competencies and capabilities (usually incorporated as a matrix). But having been on both sides of the contracting fence, I can tell you that lying (ok..I'll call it 'exagerating', to be kinder) is standard procedure and being able to call a bidder a liar for purposes of disqualification is practically impossible and almost never happens.

I assumed some years ago - quite incorrectly as it turns out - that the number of companies that would continue to compete for lower and lower profits would naturally decrease until all were gone. Then Congress would see the utter foolishness incarnate in the DFARs as they now are and fix them. But to my continued amazement, various companies like DynCorp have managed to provide more and more for less and less and I now realize that they may eventually be able to provide everything for nothing. Amazing.

The government gets only what they pay for...

Woa there..the government is legally excluded from being 'willing to pay enough'. There are virtually no contracts left where merit (in any form) is allowed to have enough weight to make the slightest impact in the award decision; only cost is considered. Cheapest bid package wins the prize.

Without getting in to the weeds, there are theoretically various review criteria that are 'supposed' to expose flaws in the bid package as they relate to technical competencies and capabilities (usually incorporated as a matrix). But having been on both sides of the contracting fence, I can tell you that lying (ok..I'll call it 'exagerating', to be kinder) is standard procedure and being able to call a bidder a liar for purposes of disqualification is practically impossible and almost never happens.

I assumed some years ago - quite incorrectly as it turns out - that the number of companies that would continue to compete for lower and lower profits would naturally decrease until all were gone. Then Congress would see the utter foolishness incarnate in the DFARs as they now are and fix them. But to my continued amazement, various companies like DynCorp have managed to provide more and more for less and less and I now realize that they may eventually be able to provide everything for nothing. Amazing.

The government gets only what they pay for...

Sure, it may be the case that what it's willing to pay is entirely a function of what it has to pay (in the context of bid-ed contracts). I don't dispute that at all.

To the extent that Dyncorp employees are under-compensated however, it is a result of what the government is paying for their services, without regard to why, and not the result of Dyncorp keeping too much of the pie for itself. Notions regarding the value of services (or products, for that matter) vary widely and are fairly subjective. Someone can think that their work is worth this while someone else thinks it's worth that - neither are authoritatively wrong. However, when it comes down to it, the only non-arbitrary measure of monetary worth is the intersection of what someone is willing to pay for something and what someone is willing to sell it for.

There aren't a ton of companies making billion dollar quarterly profits, and even fewer doing so with 20% margins. For a company that gets the bulk of its revenues (I assume) through large scale bid-ed service contracts, it would be especially difficult to do that.
:buddies:
If you are speaking about defense sector services damn straight. Huge myth that companies make big profits on defense work. Service contracts are particularly strict on the amount of profit that can be taken. On the one hand, it is profit because the government is paying the freight for the employee. But we are talking the low single digits. If they were to make big profits on a fixed price job there would be questions.
What the "union" fail to recognize is that in the end it all comes down to cost. In a service contract most companies can demonstrate they can perform, it's just which one has the lowest, REASONABLE price.

With Cerebus? Ha. Those guys pillaged what was left of Chrysler after Mercedes sucked it dry and spit it out. Good luck with that.

DynCorp To Go Private In A $1.5 Bln Deal With Cerberus; Stock Surges (http://www.rttnews.com/ArticleView.aspx?Id=1266494)



UPDATE 1-DynCorp Q4 profit beats Street | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSSGE6520IS20100603)



DynCorp shareholders profit well on proposed sale « Defense Base Act Compensation Blog (http://defensebaseactcomp.wordpress.com/2010/04/12/dyncorp-shareholders-profit-well-on-sale/)First post huh? Must be a union puke. I'll teach the bastards for making a profit. Makes me sick. This company will die fast enough without the union's help.

DynCorp To Go Private In A $1.5 Bln Deal With Cerberus; Stock Surges (http://www.rttnews.com/ArticleView.aspx?Id=1266494)



UPDATE 1-DynCorp Q4 profit beats Street | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSSGE6520IS20100603)



DynCorp shareholders profit well on proposed sale « Defense Base Act Compensation Blog (http://defensebaseactcomp.wordpress.com/2010/04/12/dyncorp-shareholders-profit-well-on-sale/)

Thanks. Good backup info proving beyond a shadow of a doubt what Tilted posted earlier..that DynCorp makes such a slim profit that its a razors edge between success or failure. Yuk. Won't see me buying any of that stock...one little push, like a misguided union action for example, and over they could go.

Thanks again.

Anyone know - Does Sunday's IAM meeting/vote determine whether or not the strike will occurs Tuesday 09/01?

Anyone know - Does Sunday's IAM meeting/vote determine whether or not the strike will occurs Tuesday 09/01?

I don't see anything about that on a private facebook page about strike. Right now, they are focusing on getting people to come out to the Union meeting on Sunday to vote.

It is all over with. DynCorp and I.A.M came to a agreement. There will be no strike.

can you fill us in on the agreement ? im very curious.

can you fill us in on the agreement ? im very curious.

I don't have anymore info other than that. When i get more info i will be happy to post it.

It is all over with. DynCorp and I.A.M came to a agreement. There will be no strike.

I no longer work for DynCorp but have been very involved with the IAM for the last 4 years. There is no truth to the above quote. They may have a tentative contract in place but it still has to be voted on by the 900+ members. There is a 100% chance that a strike can still happen. No one knows what will happen until the votes are counted.

Sorry this is so long but it gives a pretty good explanation of how the negotiations are going.

Official Newsletter of I.A.M.A.W. Local Lodge 4
Issue #1 2010

Negotiations Continue; Meeting This Sunday
Members of the Negotiating Committee for Local Lodge 4 of the I.A.M.A.W. continue negotiations with representatives with DynCorp International in order to reach a new Collective Bargaining Agreement. Both sides have been negotiating since June, and are attempting to finalize the new CBA before the current one expires on Aug. 31, 2010.
The last week of negotiations is this week. A Contract Ratification meeting has been scheduled for Sunday, August 29, 2010 at the Hollywood Fire Department. The meeting will begin at 5:30 PM. It is vital that you come out and hear what is going to be in the new contract, and to have your say. Hope to see you there!
We Are On Facebook
The Facebook page for Local Lodge 4 has been online for about a year now, and continues to grow daily as more members sign up. Facebook has proved an invaluable tool to get messages out to the membership quickly, as those of you following negotiations are already aware. Since negotiations have started, membership in the Local's Facebook page has begun to increase dramatically.
To join, log in to your Facebook account, and in the search bar type in 'Pax River LL4'. Once at the page, apply for the group, and the admin will approve you.


Recap of Negotiations at Pax River
Here is a rundown of the tentative agreements between DynCorp and Local Lodge 4 to give you, the membership, an idea of just how far negotiations have come since June. However, please keep in mind these agreements are not set in stone until the membership votes to ratify the contract.
The grievance procedure was finalized the first week, streamlining the process from four steps to three. This will shorten the length of time grievances take to be processed, and if necessary, get to arbitration. The first week also saw the DynCorp propose a change to uniforms, and wants employee input as to what we would like.
In July, there was more progress on contract language in general. There was also some improvements added that will benefit the membership. When there is a promotion, the Steward in that hangar will be called in to the Group Supervisor, and will be explained why a person was selected for a promotion. This will happen before the announcement is made so the Steward can address employee concerns as to why they were passed over.
Flex time was also addressed, where a compromise was reached. Flex time now requires 48 hours notice 'for compelling reasons'. The 48 hours is not set in stone, as it says 'when practical'. Better language for 'Tardy at the Gate', and a modest increase in toolbox insurance to $2200 were also agreed on.
August has seen some major developments as far as premiums and fringe pay. The fringe pay will now be paid for all hours paid, instead of all hours worked, up to 40 hours. This means that vacation, holidays, bereavement, military training leave, and any time you would be paid by the company, you will also get your fringe benefit. However you only earn the fringe up to 40 hours. This is a major win, and one issue that was a priority for the majority of the membership.
Changes to shift preferences and shift changes are also in the works. Shift change will only happen twice a year, in March and September. If skill, qualifications, and performance are the same among employees, then seniority will be the determining factor for shift change and awarding of premiums.
There are several new premiums added to our agreement. One is a Crew Lead Premium. If your work center supervisor is out, and you are tasked with filling his duties, then you will receive $2.00 per hour while in that capacity. There is also a Fuels Cell/Confined Space premium of $0.20 per hour for all work performed in a fuel cell.
Better language involving Tuition Assistance will be in the new contract as well. The new CBA will list the classes that are covered for Tuition Assistance.
As you can see, there are many issues that we have managed to get improvements on, however there is still a lot left to do. Wages, fringe, and pension continue to be topics of sometimes heated discussion. The cost of health care is also being discussed as many members are concerned about the costs of insurance. We still have much to get done, and it is important that you stay in touch with the Negotiating Committee and let them know what your issues are, and what you would like to see in the new contract.
Remember, everything listed here is tentative, and could still change, and it's also incumbent on a ratification vote that will take place this Sunday. (See page 1 for that info) While the negotiating committee represents our voice at the table, be sure to use YOUR voice to make your concerns known.
Negotiations and You
(The following is a commentary from the Local Lodge 4 Educator.)
Brothers and sisters, we are headed into one of the most important weekends in the life of our young Lodge. This Sunday, at Hollywood Fire Dept., we will be having a contract ratification meeting in order to give the membership a chance to approve, or not approve, the new Collective Bargaining Agreement. Like it was three years ago, this has been a period of hard work, stress, and at time, heated discussion. However, through this, your Negotiating Committee has stood strong, and has done its best to represent your interests.
There are many outspoken critics of both DynCorp, and our Lodge. Discussion about what is going on in negotiations is always good, and it's even better when ideas and thoughts reach the ears of our Committee members. While the Negotiating Committee was elected by us, to represent us at the bargaining table, that does not end our responsibility as Union members to keep them informed as to what our needs, wants and desires are. They need our support, much like a sports team needs the support of its owners, and fans, in order to succeed.
The Committee has been putting updates on the Lodge's Facebook group every day. I have seen membership to this group skyrocket as people want to know what is going on with negotiations. This is a great thing, but it's not the only means we have. We also have word of mouth, talking to our co-workers in our shops. The Stewards in the hangars should be able to not only answer any questions you might have, but also relay your concerns directly to the Negotiating Committee if you're unable to do so.
The Committee has also asked for people to show up at the negotiating site as a show of support. This is a great idea, as it sends a definite message to DynCorp that we aren't kidding around when we say we want a pension increase, more vacation, sick time, and more. I myself have been up there and have had the privilege of sitting in on two of the negotiating sessions. I can tell you from first hand observation, that our Committee is standing strong, and are looking out for the best interests of all our members. But the persons who decide what our best interests are, is YOU. Each and every one of you have the ability to determine what issues are the most important, and which are the least important, and that means getting involved in the process. Talk to your Stewards, talk to the Committee. As the Lodge's Educator, I am always available to answer questions, and work very hard to make sure people know what is going on, and have all the facts.
I hear a lot of people that don't care about the Union, or have a very negative view about it. But in my observations, these same people do nothing to make their issues known, or won't talk about their issues with anyone outside of those who feel the same way that they do. Instead of fostering negative opinions, educate yourself by getting involved in the process. Come to the monthly meetings, ask your Stewards questions, read the CBA to find out what your rights are. Whether you look at the Union favorably, or not, you still have a voice, and it is you, the membership, which determines how we as a Local Lodge function.
It is my hope, to see all of you this Sunday. It's a big day for us. But don't wait until Sunday to let your voice be heard. Once the vote is on us, unless the new CBA is voted down, there will be no more debate, there will be no more chances to get your input in. This is our Union, this is our livelihood, and this is our CBA. Stand strong, stand united, but most importantly, stand up and be heard.
Jason Swift
(Jason Swift is the Local Lodge 4 Educator, and is also the Night Check Steward at V-22)

I no longer work for DynCorp but have been very involved with the IAM for the last 4 years. There is no truth to the above quote. They may have a tentative contract in place but it still has to be voted on by the 900+ members. There is a 100% chance that a strike can still happen. No one knows what will happen until the votes are counted.

That was what i was told earlier today but later i was informed that they still have to vote. Sorry for the misunderstanding.