Again, put together by an old IRC friend.
__________________

I. Jesus Christ Granted the Apostles His Authority to Forgive Sins
John 20:21 - before He grants them the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says to the apostles, "as the Father sent me, so I send you." As Christ was sent by the Father to forgive sins, so Christ sends the apostles and their successors forgive sins.

John 20:22 - The Lord "breathes" on the apostles, and then gives them the power to forgive and retain sins. The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord "breathes" divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place.

John 20:23 - Jesus says, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained." In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear.

Matt. 9:8 - This verse shows that God has given the authority to forgive sins to "men." Hence, those Protestants who acknowledge that the apostles had the authority to forgive sins (which this verse demonstrates) must prove that this gift ended with the apostles. Otherwise, the apostles' successors still possess this gift. Where in Scripture is the gift of authority to forgive sins taken away from the apostles or their successors?

Matt. 9:6; Mark 2:10 - Christ forgave sins as a man (not God) to convince us that the "Son of man" has authority to forgive sins on earth.

Luke 5:24 - Luke also points out that Jesus' authority to forgive sins is as a man, not God. The Gospel writers record this to convince us that God has given this authority to men. This authority has been transferred from Christ to the apostles and their successors.

Matt. 18:18 - The apostles are given authority to bind and loose. The authority to bind and loose includes administering and removing the temporal penalties due to sin. The Jews understood this since the birth of the Church.

John 20:22-23; Matt. 18:18 - The power to remit/retain sin is also the power to remit/retain punishment due to sin. If Christ's ministers can forgive the eternal penalty of sin, they can certainly remit the temporal penalty of sin (which is called an "indulgence").

2 Cor. 2:10 - Paul forgives in the presence of Christ (some translations refer to the presences of Christ as "in persona Christi"). Some say that this may also be a reference to sins.

2 Cor. 5:18 - The ministry of reconciliation was given to the ambassadors of the Church. This ministry of reconciliation refers to the sacrament of reconciliation, also called the sacrament of confession or penance.

James 5:15-16 - In verse 15 we see that sins are forgiven by the priests in the sacrament of the sick. This is another example of man's authority to forgive sins on earth. Then in verse 16, James says “Therefore, confess our sins to one another,” in reference to the men referred to in verse 15, the priests of the Church.

1 Tim. 2:5 - Christ is the only mediator, but He was free to decide how His mediation would be applied to us. The Lord chose to use priests of God to carry out His work of forgiveness.

Lev. 5:4-6; 19:21-22 - Even under the Old Covenant, God used priests to forgive and atone for the sins of others.

II. The Necessity and Practice of Orally Confessing Sins
James 5:16 - James clearly teaches us that we must “confess our sins to one another,” not just privately to God. James 5:16 must be read in the context of James 5:14-15, which is referring to the healing power (both physical and spiritual) of the priests of the Church. Hence, when James says “therefore” in verse 16, he must be referring to the men he was writing about in verses 14 and 15 – these men are the ordained priests of the Church, to whom we must confess our sins.

Acts 19:18 - Many came to orally confess sins and divulge their sinful practices. Oral confession was the practice of the early Church just as it is today.

Matt. 3:6; Mark 1:5 - Again, this shows people confessing their sins before others as an historical practice (here to John the Baptist).

1 Tim. 6:12 - This verse also refers to the historical practice of confessing both faith and sins in the presence of many witnesses.

1 John 1:9 - If we confess are sins, God is faithful to us and forgives us and cleanse us. But we must confess our sins to one another.

Num. 5:7 - This shows the historical practice of publicly confessing sins, and making public restitution.

2 Sam. 12:14 - Even though the sin is forgiven, there is punishment due for the forgiven sin. David is forgiven but his child was still taken (the consequence of his sin).

Neh. 9:2-3 - The Israelites stood before the assembly and confessed sins publicly and interceded for each other.

Sir. 4:26 - God tells us not to be ashamed to confess our sins, and not to try to stop the current of a river. Anyone who has experienced the sacrament of reconciliation understands the import of this verse.

Baruch 1:14 - Again, this shows that the people made confession in the house of the Lord, before the assembly.

1 John 5:16-17; Luke 12:47-48 - There is a distinction between mortal and venial sins. This has been the teaching of the Catholic Church for 2,000 years, but, today, most Protestants no longer agree that there is such a distinction. Mortal sins lead to death and must be absolved in the sacrament of reconciliation. Venial sins do not have to be confessed to a priest, but the pious Catholic practice is to do so in order to advance in our journey to holiness.

Matt. 5:19 - Jesus teaches that breaking the least of commandments is venial sin (the person is still saved but is least in the kingdom), versus mortal sin (the person is not saved).
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:coffee:

Very unbiblical stuff here Radiant1. I won't even refute it. You've become another Nonnoboy with all this untrue junk. Be warned though; you're digging yourself a big hole with all those false teachings and you will be held accountable for them... :howdy:

20+ scripture verses and you say it's unbiblical. :killingme You can disagree with the interpretation if you will, but can't say it's not biblical and appear sane.

20+ scripture verses and you say it's unbiblical. :killingme You can disagree with the interpretation if you will, but can't say it's not biblical and appear sane.
Hey cupcake; You know full well that I'm not speaking about the verses...:duh: :razz: I'd love to sit and show you the error of each of those interpretations but I'm not wasting all that time on here.

Here's why your priests are wrong. They'll pay for trying to play God and making all those foolish sheep THINK their sins were forgiven when they really weren't. All those verses are take wayyy out of context, btw. This verse says it all:

6 "Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?" (Mark 2)

Do you know why God said to confess your sins to one another?
Does me confessing my sins to you get me to Heaven?
Why confess to each other if ONLY God can forgive them? :howdy:

Again, put together by an old IRC friend.
__________________

I. Jesus Christ Granted the Apostles His Authority to Forgive Sins
John 20:21 - before He grants them the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says to the apostles, "as the Father sent me, so I send you." As Christ was sent by the Father to forgive sins, so Christ sends the apostles and their successors forgive sins.

John 20:22 - The Lord "breathes" on the apostles, and then gives them the power to forgive and retain sins. The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord "breathes" divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place.

John 20:23 - Jesus says, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained." In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear.

Matt. 9:8 - This verse shows that God has given the authority to forgive sins to "men." Hence, those Protestants who acknowledge that the apostles had the authority to forgive sins (which this verse demonstrates) must prove that this gift ended with the apostles. Otherwise, the apostles' successors still possess this gift. Where in Scripture is the gift of authority to forgive sins taken away from the apostles or their successors?

Matt. 9:6; Mark 2:10 - Christ forgave sins as a man (not God) to convince us that the "Son of man" has authority to forgive sins on earth.

Luke 5:24 - Luke also points out that Jesus' authority to forgive sins is as a man, not God. The Gospel writers record this to convince us that God has given this authority to men. This authority has been transferred from Christ to the apostles and their successors.

Matt. 18:18 - The apostles are given authority to bind and loose. The authority to bind and loose includes administering and removing the temporal penalties due to sin. The Jews understood this since the birth of the Church.

John 20:22-23; Matt. 18:18 - The power to remit/retain sin is also the power to remit/retain punishment due to sin. If Christ's ministers can forgive the eternal penalty of sin, they can certainly remit the temporal penalty of sin (which is called an "indulgence").

2 Cor. 2:10 - Paul forgives in the presence of Christ (some translations refer to the presences of Christ as "in persona Christi"). Some say that this may also be a reference to sins.

2 Cor. 5:18 - The ministry of reconciliation was given to the ambassadors of the Church. This ministry of reconciliation refers to the sacrament of reconciliation, also called the sacrament of confession or penance.

James 5:15-16 - In verse 15 we see that sins are forgiven by the priests in the sacrament of the sick. This is another example of man's authority to forgive sins on earth. Then in verse 16, James says “Therefore, confess our sins to one another,” in reference to the men referred to in verse 15, the priests of the Church.

1 Tim. 2:5 - Christ is the only mediator, but He was free to decide how His mediation would be applied to us. The Lord chose to use priests of God to carry out His work of forgiveness.

Lev. 5:4-6; 19:21-22 - Even under the Old Covenant, God used priests to forgive and atone for the sins of others.




For the ministers and priests who assume the power to forgive your sins by claiming Matthew 9:8...why do they not claim and practice the power God gave the Apostles in Matthew 10:8?
"Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, RAISE THE DEAD, cast out devils (demons): freely ye have received, freely give."

As Christ stated in Matthew 9:5...

"For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?"

If these ministers and priests can legitimately forgive your sins, let us see proof of their claim such as: (a.) healing the sick, (b.) cleansing lepers, (c.) RAISING THE DEAD!

No where in the Bible do any of the disciples make a claim of forgiving sin, they always point to Christ as the only one that can forgive sin.

I think it important to confess our sins to the Father (God) through His Son (Jesus). I do this daily through prayer.

Hey cupcake; You know full well that I'm not speaking about the verses...:duh: :razz: I'd love to sit and show you the error of each of those interpretations but I'm not wasting all that time on here.

Here's why your priests are wrong. They'll pay for trying to play God and making all those foolish sheep THINK their sins were forgiven when they really weren't. All those verses are take wayyy out of context, btw. This verse says it all:

6 "Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?" (Mark 2)

Do you know why God said to confess your sins to one another?
Does me confessing my sins to you get me to Heaven?
Why confess to each other if ONLY God can forgive them? :howdy:

UH OH!! You called her cupcake.....:nono:

Of course God is the one who forgives sins. He's the one who instituted the sacrament after all.

IS -- It's right there for all to see. All you can do is say you disagree with the interpretations and give alternative ones. I'll try not to attach a motive for your not doing so.

Tiger -- They do, it's called Sacrament of the Sick and exorcism. And, the sacrament of confession is confessing through Christ. Read the verse below. How could anyone forgive or retain sins if they weren't confessed orally? Be careful about saying you confess your sins privately through prayer or IS will accuse you of not being biblical.

Matthew 20:21-23 21 (Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."

^^ It really is that simple.

Of course God is the one who forgives sins. He's the one who instituted the sacrament after all.

IS -- It's right there for all to see. All you can do is say you disagree with the interpretations and give alternative ones. I'll try not to attach a motive for your not doing so.

Tiger -- They do, it's called Sacrament of the Sick and exorcism. And, the sacrament of confession is confessing through Christ. Read the verse below. How could anyone forgive or retain sins if they weren't confessed orally? Be careful about saying you confess your sins privately through prayer or IS will accuse you of not being biblical.

Matthew 20:21-23 21 (Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."

^^ It really is that simple.Have you ever thought that contextually, what that command is conveying is not about absolution by a priest, but about evangelism?

Have you ever thought that contextually, what that command is conveying is not about absolution by a priest, but about evangelism?

This is not an either/or situation, this is a classic case of both/and. John 20:23 doesn't make sense regarding evangelization alone as you would view it. In addition, in the following chapter, John 21, you see Jesus telling Peter "feed my lambs", "tend my sheep", "feed my sheep". The sacraments are part of the post-resurrection mission and continues to this day.

UH OH!! You called her cupcake.....:nono:
I know that she's a sweetheart in real life and once in a while I like to :poke:
She knows I care very much about her or I wouldn't spend all this time:duel:with her.

IS -- It's right there for all to see. All you can do is say you disagree with the interpretations and give alternative ones. I'll try not to attach a motive for your not doing so.
Matthew 20:21-23 21 (Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."
^^ It really is that simple.
That passage is in John 20 not Matthew btw.

And it's really NOT that simple. This is one of those passages that would contradict Mark 2v7 if taken literally, as you have. This passage does NOT mean that the 12 had power to forgive sins like God does. It has to do with evangelism as Zguy said. Remember; it HAS to fit in with the rest of Scripture and it doesn't with your explanation.

The 12 were given the power (just like Christians have today) to "effect forgiveness" or not to, depending on the response of those who hear the word of God from us. If they believe and are saved, we have (in effect) forgiven them, though it's not literally us who did it. If they reject our teachings and do not get saved, then we have (in effect) NOT forgiven their sins. Your interpretation would give humans the same power of forgiveness that God has and we know that can't happen. I haven't seen any place in the Bible where the 12 or anyone (except God) ever forgave someone's sins.
Have you ever thought that contextually, what that command is conveying is not about absolution by a priest, but about evangelism?
:yay:

Of course God is the one who forgives sins. He's the one who instituted the sacrament after all.

IS -- It's right there for all to see. All you can do is say you disagree with the interpretations and give alternative ones. I'll try not to attach a motive for your not doing so.

Tiger -- They do, it's called Sacrament of the Sick and exorcism. And, the sacrament of confession is confessing through Christ. Read the verse below. How could anyone forgive or retain sins if they weren't confessed orally? Be careful about saying you confess your sins privately through prayer or IS will accuse you of not being biblical.

Matthew 20:21-23 21 (Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."

^^ It really is that simple.

Not sure what sacrament of the sick is, is that the same thing as last rites? If so then that is not healing the sick. I have heard of no one raising the dead since the 1st century.

The 12 were given the power (just like Christians have today) to "effect forgiveness" or not, depending on the response of those who hear the word of God from us. If they believe and are saved, we have (in effect) forgiven them, though it's not literally us who did it. If they reject our teachings and do not get saved, then we have (in effect) NOT forgiven their sins. Your interpretation would give humans the same power of forgiveness that God has and we know that can't happen.

:yay:The only thing I would add is that it also lays a particular responsibility on all of us with regards to doing or not doing evangelism.

If you do not evangelize someone, you have in effect withheld forgiveness of sins from them.

That passage is in John 20 not Matthew btw.

And it's really NOT that simple. This is one of those passages that would contradict Mark 2v7 if taken literally, as you have. This passage does NOT mean that the 12 had power to forgive sins like God does. It has to do with evangelism as Zguy said. Remember; it HAS to fit in with the rest of Scripture and it doesn't with your explanation.

It doesn't contradict Mark when you understand that God is the power behind every sacrament (which judging by your statement below you do understand). Jesus also gave Peter the keys to the kingdom and told him what he loosed or bound on earth was loosed or bound in Heaven (Matthew 18:18). How do you reconcile that with Mark 2:7?

The 12 were given the power (just like Christians have today) to "effect forgiveness" or not to, depending on the response of those who hear the word of God from us. If they believe and are saved, we have (in effect) forgiven them, though it's not literally us who did it. If they reject our teachings and do not get saved, then we have (in effect) NOT forgiven their sins. Your interpretation would give humans the same power of forgiveness that God has and we know that can't happen. I haven't seen any place in the Bible where the 12 or anyone (except God) ever forgave someone's sins.

Read above. As for the evanglize interpretation, I have no issue with believing BOTH yours AND the Catholic one. Scripture often contains layer upon layer of meaning doesn't it.

Not sure what sacrament of the sick is, is that the same thing as last rites? If so then that is not healing the sick. I have heard of no one raising the dead since the 1st century.

Yes, but the sacrament is used for anyone in ill health or facing surgery, etc.

You haven't heard because you aren't involved in Catholic culture.

It doesn't contradict Mark when you understand that God is the power behind every sacrament (which judging by your statement below you do understand). Jesus also gave Peter the keys to the kingdom and told him what he loosed or bound on earth was loosed or bound in Heaven (Matthew 18:18). How do you reconcile that with Mark 2:7?

Radiant, if God is the power behind it, why use any other person for forgiveness? You (your church) needs to stop adding intermediaries.
And the word "sacrament" isn't in the Bible...:razz:

And it does contradict it. NO ONE has power to forgive anyones sins like God does. The only sins ANYONE can forgive are sins that have been committed against them. If you sin against me by slandering me (or whatever), I can forgive you for that. I cannot forgive you of any sins that would make you go to Heaven though.

Confessing our sins to each other is NOT a biblical basis for going to your "priests" for forgiveness. They cannot forgive my sins unless I've sinned against them, and then, they can ONLY forgive that sin.

Again, you need to interpret what: "loose or bound" means (as I said earlier) by what the context of the passage is. Jesus is talking about "forgiving a brother who sins against you". NOT getting someone to Heaven, NOT contradicting Mark 2 and is specifically talking about only TWO people. See verse 15?

15 “If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over...
16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’
17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
18 I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
19 Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven."

Jesus ended up explaining that, if your brother can't "be won over, treat him as a pagan or tax collector". That would be referring to being "bound" by his own sin. Then, "if he listens to you, you have won your brother over" refers to being loosed from his sin.

Again, you need to interpret what: "loose or bound" means (as I said earlier) by what the context of the passage is. Jesus is talking about "forgiving a brother who sins against you".
Sooo...if I ask your forgiveness, and you refuse that forgiveness, then I am bound?
Confession is not about what God can and does do. It's about what we do.
Going to confession is an act of humility, puts us back in our place, so to speak.
I can't help but think of the movie, "The Music Man". Professor Harold Hill made people believe that they could play the music using "the think system". Now anyone knows that you cannot play music, run football plays, or do karate without practice, practice, practice.
Now, it seems to me that going to confession is just that, practice. Reminding us of who we are, who God is, and why we need His Mercy, and the "being saved" is like "the think system", and because you think it, it will be so.
Well, I'm starting to ramble...

Sooo...if I ask your forgiveness, and you refuse that forgiveness, then I am bound?
Nope! You've done what God required of you. I'm required to forgive you "seventy times seven" times. If I don't, it's on me.

Confession is not about what God can and does do. It's about what we do.
Going to confession is an act of humility, puts us back in our place, so to speak.
The issue is WHOM we confess to. There is NO "going to confession" in the Bible. We confess from wherever we are, to God...unless we've sinned against someone else, then what I've said earlier applies.

Nope! You've done what God required of you. I'm required to forgive you "seventy times seven" times. If I don't, it's on me.

The issue is WHOM we confess to. There is NO "going to confession" in the Bible. We confess from wherever we are, to God...unless we've sinned against someone else, then what I've said earlier applies.

Well, guess what, IS, there are no qualifiers in the Bible where it says that the sin will be held "bound in Heaven". If you hold it bound, then it is bound.
So, if you don't do what is required, what then? You can't lose your salvation, and there is no punishment for your disobedience, so I guess...that's it?
And if my sin being held bound by you has no effect on anything, what's the point of any of Jesus' instruction?
Does Jesus demand anything of you at all? If you love me you will keep my commandments. What must you do, as a Christian? And I say must for a reason. We prove our love by obedience, but as far as you are concerned we actually do not have to obey anything.
My kids don't have to just accept and believe that I am their mother and all will be well. They must obey what I tell them or they will have to be disciplined.
Okay, dh is back from his run, going to have to get his breakfast...

Well, guess what, IS, there are no qualifiers in the Bible where it says that the sin will be held "bound in Heaven". If you hold it bound, then it is bound. So, if you don't do what is required, what then? You can't lose your salvation, and there is no punishment for your disobedience, so I guess...that's it? And if my sin being held bound by you has no effect on anything, what's the point of any of Jesus' instruction?

I'm actually unsure of what you're getting at here Libbster...:confused:

I'm actually unsure of what you're getting at here Libbster...:confused:

I'm asking you what you must do. You seem to think that Jesus' commands are all, more-or-less, suggestions, but He says, "if you love me you will obey my commandments". We prove our love through our obedience, all the time, to every thing He asks of us.
From what I've learned through your interpretation is that we should do what He says, but we don't have to do what He says, and if we choose not to do this or that, it will not affect our salvation.

At the end of the day, only God can lay judgement upon all of us.

Protestants will believe what they want, us Catholics believe what we want.

We can at least agree that Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are the odd bastard children of Christianity :P.

I'm asking you what you must do. You seem to think that Jesus' commands are all, more-or-less, suggestions, but He says, "if you love me you will obey my commandments". We prove our love through our obedience, all the time, to every thing He asks of us.
From what I've learned through your interpretation is that we should do what He says, but we don't have to do what He says, and if we choose not to do this or that, it will not affect our salvation.If left to our own devices, we will always NOT do what Christ taught. However, because we have a righteousness from God we do what He taught. That being said, all believers still sin sometimes. It doesn't forfeit salvation when the flesh's weakness is tempted and exploited.

I'm asking you what you must do. You seem to think that Jesus' commands are all, more-or-less, suggestions, but He says, "if you love me you will obey my commandments". We prove our love through our obedience, all the time, to every thing He asks of us.
From what I've learned through your interpretation is that we should do what He says, but we don't have to do what He says, and if we choose not to do this or that, it will not affect our salvation.
Again Libby...WHAT are you saying??? :duh: I think you're soo works oriented that you forget what GRACE really means. We cannot work enough to be saved nor to stay saved. When I answered your post about you asking for forgiveness and someone not forgiving you, that's the only answer. What do you feel the need to add to it? :shrug:
At the end of the day, only God can lay judgement upon all of us. Protestants will believe what they want, us Catholics believe what we want.
True! :yay:

We can at least agree that Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are the odd bastard children of Christianity :P.
Can we? They do not meet the "requirements" for Christianity...

Can we? They do not meet the "requirements" for Christianity...

You mistake what I said- bastard meaning illegitimate children of Christianity, therefore validating your above statement... I was trying to put what you said a little more politely (or perhaps not, :P)... as Mormons like Mitt Romney and Glenn Beck will say they're Christians too.

I for one am glad that Radiant1 is here to be a counter-balance to the Catholic-bashing protestant crowd here.

I have little motivation to spend my energy debating with the likes of Starman and anyone else when I know that at the end of the day it will fall upon their deaf ears- they will continue to believe what they want and I will continue to believe what I do.

For me, actions speak louder than words. One can quote the bible all they want, preach all they want, but if they don't live their everyday life and love thy neighbor despite all their faults and practice forgiveness of thy fellow man, then they're effectively practicing the antithesis of Christ's teachings as far as I'm concerned.

Taking up a crusade to demonize Catholics, Muslims, Protestants, Hindus, whatever... seems ineffective, if not counter productive, to achieving a life characterized and described by the beatitudes.

One can be righteousness in their beliefs and not be self-righteous and contemptuous of those who they deem unrighteous.

I forgive Starman and anyone else for their sins against me and my Catholic brothers and sisters, for we are all the children of God.

You mistake what I said- bastard meaning illegitimate children of Christianity, therefore validating your above statement... I was trying to put what you said a little more politely (or perhaps not, :P)... as Mormons like Mitt Romney and Glenn Beck will say they're Christians too.
Apparently I did. You should have used :sarcasm: instead of :P
It is clear that Christians are only those who follow the true Jesus. Jesus & Paul said that there would be false Jesuses out there. Sadly the Mormon & JW "Jesus" are false ones (Matthew 24:4, 23, 24) (2 Corinthians 11:4)
I for one am glad that Radiant1 is here to be a counter-balance to the Catholic-bashing protestant crowd here.
I have little motivation to spend my energy debating with the likes of Starman and anyone else when I know that at the end of the day it will fall upon their deaf ears- they will continue to believe what they want and I will continue to believe what I do.
For me, actions speak louder than words. One can quote the bible all they want, preach all they want, but if they don't live their everyday life and love thy neighbor despite all their faults and practice forgiveness of thy fellow man, then they're effectively practicing the antithesis of Christ's teachings as far as I'm concerned.
Taking up a crusade to demonize Catholics, Muslims, Protestants, Hindus, whatever... seems ineffective, if not counter productive, to achieving a life characterized and described by the beatitudes.
One can be righteousness in their beliefs and not be self-righteous and contemptuous of those who they deem unrighteous.
I forgive Starman and anyone else for their sins against me and my Catholic brothers and sisters, for we are all the children of God.
Actually there's nothing to forgive. We haven't sinned by telling you the truth. Remember what Paul said?
16 "Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good..." (Galatians 4)

"Ineffective & counter productive"??? That's exactly what the devil wants people to think! Just be good; stay indoctrinated in their lies; ignore people who are trying to show you the truth and possibly save your life, AND trash what Jesus Himself said about speaking out against false doctrines...Nice Mikey!

And you say that we all should "be good and do good" and everyone will automatically believe in God because of that? As long as they're good, everyone can follow their own god and get to Heaven just like Oprah says? No one will ever mis-interpret who the only true God is? Good Catholic boy... :duh:

Btw; we're NOT all children of God. You have to become one:

12 "Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God" (John 1)

13 "...but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God (Romans 8)

8 "In other words, it is not the natural children who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring" (Romans 9)

26 "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3)

...I forgive Starman and anyone else for their sins against me and my Catholic brothers and sisters, for we are all the children of God.

Hmmm... What sin is it to tell you the Truth regarding the New Testament Jesus Christ? I would be neglecting my responsibility as a born-again child of God by withholding what I know to be TRUE and not pointing out the misguided teachings of many religions when they teach another gospel, another "Jesus" and in the case of the RCC - also another "Mary".

Scripture calls upon believers to warn and lead others out of deceptive teachings that do not agree with the teachings of God's Plan of Salvation through the New Testament Jesus Christ.

One Mediator: (Not Two)
The Holy Bible proclaims that there is only ONE Mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5)and that is Jesus Christ the Son of The Living God and resurrected Saviour of mankind.
Mary cannot "mediate" on your behalf as you have been led to believe by the RCC. There is Only ONE Mediator!

Three in Heaven: (Not Four or more!)

For there are three that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are ONE. (1 John 5:7)

Contrary to what the RCC teaches and has led you to believe, Mary is NOT in Heaven assisting Jesus in the Salvation and Redemption of souls nor are the "patron saints" there to be acting as spiritual guides that you can call upon through prayers and petitions.

There Is Only One Truth (John 14:6)

Hmmm... What sin is it to tell you the Truth regarding the New Testament Jesus Christ? I would be neglecting my responsibility as a born-again child of God by withholding what I know to be TRUE and not pointing out the misguided teachings of many religions when they teach another gospel, another "Jesus" and in the case of the RCC - also another "Mary".

Scripture calls upon believers to warn and lead others out of deceptive teachings that do not agree with the teachings of God's Plan of Salvation through the New Testament Jesus Christ.

One Mediator: (Not Two)
The Holy Bible proclaims that there is only ONE Mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5)and that is Jesus Christ the Son of The Living God and resurrected Saviour of mankind.
Mary cannot "mediate" on your behalf as you have been led to believe by the RCC. There is Only ONE Mediator!

Three in Heaven: (Not Four or more!)

For there are three that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are ONE. (1 John 5:7)

Contrary to what the RCC teaches and has led you to believe, Mary is NOT in Heaven assisting Jesus in the Salvation and Redemption of souls nor are the "patron saints" there to be acting as spiritual guides that you can call upon through prayers and petitions.

There Is Only One Truth (John 14:6)

Squawk!!!