Good Evening everyone. A question for my jewish formites. Can you tell me the story of how the spider saved David. Can you post the link for the story I would really appreciate it.

Teaching Tales: King David and the Spider - Beliefnet.com (http://www.beliefnet.com/Love-Family/Parenting/2000/09/Teaching-Tales-King-David-And-The-Spider.aspx)

Thanks Vrai.

Good Evening everyone. A question for my jewish formites. Can you tell me the story of how the spider saved David. Can you post the link for the story I would really appreciate it.

I'm baaaaaackkkk!!! lol

Hi there punjabigyrl and thanks, vraiblonde, for referencing that link that answers pujabigyrl's question about how the spider saved David.

I recall reading an Hadith, from Islamic theology, that gives an account about a spider saving Muhammad in the very same way. That's probably what prompted the question. (BTW: There are also other accounts adopted into Islamic theology that parallel Jewish teachings.)

FYI: It is a known fact that Muhammad initially conferred with Jews and Christians and was aware of their teachings - some which have come to be included in the Qur'an and Ahadith, albeit revised by Muhammad and his companion scribes in order to give him credibility of being a prophet.

Take the story about the spider's web for example. Since the Jewish account was the first one documented, it appears more than likely that Muhammad adopted this same story for his own account, revised it a bit, and included it as part of his own sayings (Ahadith) to justify his "prophethood". Can you say "plagiarism"??? Anyway, for anyone interested, here is a link to the Islamic version about Muhammad and the spider's web - which is similar to the Jewish account that was written about David:

THE SPIDER AND THE CAVE (http://www.sln.org.uk/storyboard/stories/i12.htm)

This other link also has the account about the spider's web plus other "miracles" claimed by Muhammad as in the one where he "split the moon" into two pieces.

Miracles of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him (http://www.iqra.net/Hadith/miracle.php)

My interest in this was that I am doing a comparative religious study and seeing what christianity, judaism and islam have to say about the different religious personalities from Adam to Muhammad and comparing the stories about them.

I notice you are starting off with quite an assumption. You are assuming that Muhammad told this story. I personally didn’t see anywhere in my reading this story came from him. There are different ways that this story can be perceived depending on who is reading it. It can be perceived in your way, although I don’t think so, as I will explain soon. Another perspective is that the incident happened twice, once during David’s time and again during Muhammad’s time. I don’t think there is any rule saying that God can’t have such a thing happen twice. Having said that, I’m not sure that it did happen twice. The third perspective is that the story was copied or plagiarized, but not by Muhammad. This is the most logical explanation, in my opinion.

Before I start explaining, let me remind you what I had written about hadith in my past posts.

I figured I’d start by looking at the people who have the hadith that are considered authentic – Bukhari, Dawood, Muslim, Tirmidhi, Nasa’i, Malik ibn Anas, Ahmed ibn Hanbal. What I found is that hadith were actually written about 250 years after Muhammad’s death. During Muhammad’s time, he did not want any hadith written because he did not want them confused with the Quran. It seems that even after Muhammad’s death, the first Islamic leaders – Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman did not allow recording and telling of hadith.

The people who wrote the authentic or sahih hadith lived around the same time and knew each other and some of them were students of the others (Bukhari, Abu Dawood, Muslim and Nasa’i). Bukhari, Abu Dawood and Nasa’i had photographic memories. I really am uncertain of the likelihood of that many people in such a small group having photographic memories. These people went around collecting hadith from Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, India, Syria and Iran. So they were collecting oral traditions and writing them down. Muslim collected 3,000,000 hadith, of which he selected 4000. Dawood collected 50,000 hadith and selected 4800. Bukhari has 7086 hadith selected. Out of this, 1100 are narrated by Abu Hurairah (father of kittens – so nicknamed because he loved cats). Abu Hurairah converted to Islam two years before Muhammad’s death. Supposedly, he had a very good memory. He has amongst the most hadith in Bukhari as compared the others who had been with Muhammad for 23 years or more. In Bukhari’s collection, Ali has only 79 hadith, Umar has only 50; and these were close companions of Muhammad. So, if Hurairah had been with Muhammad every single day, he would have had to have at least 3 to 4 hadith a day to keep in his mind. After Muhammad’s death the next 3 leaders did not allow him to repeat any hadith for the next 30 years until a person called Muawiya became the leader. Here is an example of a sahih hadith Bukhari by Abu Hurairah- Vol.7,Book 64, #268, Narrated Abu Huraira, “The Prophet said, ’The best alms is that which is given when one is rich, and a giving hand is better than a taking one, and you start first to support your dependents. A wife says,” You should either provide me with food or divorce me.” A slave says,” Give me food and enjoy my service.” A son says, “Give me food; to whom do you leave me?” The people said,” O Abu Huraira, did you hear that from Allah’s Apostle?” He said, “No, it is from my own self.” I have purposely highlighted the last part to emphasize a point. The point being Abu Hurairah added his own words to a hadith or maybe made up his own hadith. And this is considered a sahih hadith.

In the second chapter of the Quran, there are three types of people mentioned: those who believe, those who deny and the hypocrites. I will talk about the hypocrites. These were people who, for political reasons, became Muslims but didn’t really believe (2:8 – 2:20). I think they were mostly a group of Jews in Medina, but they may have included others. They may have added their own hadith to their advantage. There were also well meaning Jews and Christians who did convert to Islam and may have added their hadith to harmonize their beliefs. An example of a Jewish man who converted to Islam was Abu Huraira. I am sure you are familiar with him from the hadith. So what we are seeing in some of the hadith are some of these people putting in some of their stories from their beliefs. The hadith became a mishmash of all the stories.

SOME PROMINENT HADITH FABRICATORS | Quranic.org | Page 5 (http://www.quranic.org/some-prominent-hadith-fabricators/5/) , SOME PROMINENT HADITH FABRICATORS | Quranic.org | Page 9 (http://www.quranic.org/some-prominent-hadith-fabricators/9/) , http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/100%20Fabricated%20Hadith.pdf

As you know, there is a science of hadith methodology and literature to try to distinguish between what is right and wrong. Even with this, these wrong hadith are still there. You really have to figure out which ones are wrong. That is where reasoning comes into play. I think that sometimes some people just don’t reason and just believe everything they read. This applies to Muslims and non-Muslims. It is interesting to read up on the background of this hadith of the spider web and the dove nest in front of the cave.

I looked up in Wikipedia and an arabic dictionary on the hadith terminology Hadith terminology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_terminology) but I went ahead and wrote down the terminology to better understand this explanation of the chain of transmitters of this hadith Islam Question and Answer - Overnight stay of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and Abu Bakr in the cave of Thawr (http://islamqa.info/en/ref/27224) .
Isnaad – Chain of transmitters, Hasan – Acceptable, Daif – Weak, Gharib – Hadith conveyed by only one narrator, Munkar – Denounced (If a narration which goes against another authentic hadith is reported by a weak narrator, it is munkar), Mursal – Hurried (Certain narrators were left out of the isnaad or chain of narrators).

As you can see from Islam Question and Answer - Overnight stay of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and Abu Bakr in the cave of Thawr (http://islamqa.info/en/ref/27224) , that there was conflict among these different scholars whether this was a weak hadith or not. We can read for ourselves that the majority of scholars felt that it was weak, which would mean that this hadith is more than likely false. In other words, the spider web and the doves or pigeons incident never took place, yet at the end the guy writing this said that this hadith is acceptable!

Huh? Acceptable? After a majority of the people said it is weak due to the narrators of this hadith! Where is the logic in that? Yet, most Muslims think this incident happened and non-Muslims think that Muhammad plagiarized it. Like I said at the beginning, it was probably copied or plagiarized, not by Muhammad though, but by some (probably well meaning) Jews in this case, to harmonise their beliefs to Islamic beliefs. I think this case can be seen with the case of the second coming of Christ too. Based on hadith, there is a second coming of Christ and majority of the Muslims believe this. I think this comes from Christians who converted to Islam to harmonise their beliefs to Islam again.

Now, in the Quran, in 9:40, it does talk about Muhammad and a companion hiding in a cave. From Muhammad Asad’s translation:

If you do not succour the Apostle, then (know that God will do so – just as) God succoured him at the time when those who were bent on denying the truth drove him away, (and he was but) one of two: when these two were (hiding) in the cave, (and) the Apostle said to his companion, “Grieve not: verily, God is with us.” And thereupon God bestowed upon him from on high His (gift of) inner peace, and aided him with forces which you could not see, and brought utterly low the cause of those who were bent on denying the truth, whereas God’s cause remained supreme: for God is almighty, wise.
9:25 and 9:26 talking to the believers about the battle of Hunayn, also has mention of God bestowing “His (gift of) inner peace upon his Apostle and upon the believers, and bestowed (upon you) from on high forces which you could not see,…”

What are these forces you cannot see? In 3:124 and 8:9, there is mention of angels being sent down to help the Muslims in other battles against the polytheists. It can be inferred from this that these unseen forces aiding Muhammad and his companion at the cave were angels.

My interest in this was that I am doing a comparative religious study and seeing what christianity, judaism and islam have to say about the different religious personalities from Adam to Muhammad and comparing the stories about them.

I love stuff like this!! Very interesting post(s). :yay:

My interest in this was that I am doing a comparative religious study and seeing what christianity, judaism and islam have to say about the different religious personalities from Adam to Muhammad and comparing the stories about them...

Well, okay, but you will not find any Jewish teaching that has a story about Moses like this one that Muhammad told:



Moses Clothes stolen by a Stone:

Allah's Apostle said, "(The Prophet) Moses was a shy person and used to cover his body completely because of his extensive shyness. One of the children of Israel hurt him by saying, 'He covers his body in this way only because of some defect in his skin, either leprosy or scrotal hernia, or he has some other defect.' Allah wished to clear Moses of what they said about him, so one day while Moses was in seclusion, he took off his clothes and put them on a stone and started taking a bath. When he had finished the bath, he moved towards his clothes so as to take them, but the stone took his clothes and fled; Moses picked up his stick and ran after the stone saying, 'O stone! Give me my garment!' Till he reached a group of Bani Israel who saw him naked then, and found him the best of what Allah had created, and Allah cleared him of what they had accused him of. The stone stopped there and Moses took and put his garment on and started hitting the stone with his stick. By Allah, the stone still has some traces of the hitting, three, four or five marks. This was what Allah refers to in His Saying:-- "O you who believe! Be you not like those Who annoyed Moses, But Allah proved his innocence of that which they alleged, And he was honorable In Allah's Sight." (33.69)
(Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 616: Narrated Abu Huraira)

I took a course (some years ago) that was called Myth and Man.
It looked at a number of religions side by side and compared the stories that would have been relevant in equal times.

as I remember, it looked at Greek mythology, Christian religion, Muslim, and a few others including Paganism.

Very interesting course and if nothing else it caused me to have a greater belief in God. Even though all the religions explained something differently, if one looked closely it was as if those religions were trying to explain the same thing. Even though some of the them would have had no knowledge of the other at the time.

None of our current religions are anything new, and Acccordingly Jesus was not the only human crucified and purportedly ressurected... It happened several times prior to Christianity. some used crosses, some trees...
Almost all of the bible stories manifest themselves prior to the Bible and Christianity, with different names, different times... Not all talked to vegetation, or had to.chase rocks, but they talked to animals, plants, rocks, dirt.... Whatever inanimate object a normal, lesser person could NEVER communicate with.

Greek Mythology, Paganism and a host of other religions, the Christians combined all of their fiction to.make up their very own.

None of our current religions are anything new, and Acccordingly Jesus was not the only human crucified and purportedly ressurected... It happened several times prior to Christianity. some used crosses, some trees...
Almost all of the bible stories manifest themselves prior to the Bible and Christianity, with different names, different times... Not all talked to vegetation, or had to.chase rocks, but they talked to animals, plants, rocks, dirt.... Whatever inanimate object a normal, lesser person could NEVER communicate with.

Greek Mythology, Paganism and a host of other religions, the Christians combined all of their fiction to.make up their very own.

Well Bob, I realize that in most subjects you do carry much weight, However in this one I suspect you really dont know. You never studied it in depth.
Now, true, it all may be made up.
I have often wondered to myself, what if a government, wanting to gain great control over the population, came up with religion, could they not control the whole populace without their ever knowing it??? maybe.

But then we look at the Majority of religions and we see that their stories are basically describing the same things. Different names, different reasons, but basically the same events are being explained, and as I said earlier, some of these religions were describing things around the same time as others that would have had no contact with each other.

believe or not, you do have to admit that there are some oddities involved in this whole thing.

Well Bob, I realize that in most subjects you do carry much weight, However in this one I suspect you really dont know. You never studied it in depth.
Now, true, it all may be made up.
I have often wondered to myself, what if a government, wanting to gain great control over the population, came up with religion, could they not control the whole populace without their ever knowing it??? maybe.

But then we look at the Majority of religions and we see that their stories are basically describing the same things. Different names, different reasons, but basically the same events are being explained, and as I said earlier, some of these religions were describing things around the same time as others that would have had no contact with each other.

believe or not, you do have to admit that there are some oddities involved in this whole thing.


Watch the movie "The Man That Invented Lying" if your church allows you to..

It's pretty enlightening..

Mmm. Maybe you missed what I wrote about hadith; and veering off on a different topic again, I see.

I once read something by a wise man, ” In referencing Scripture, it is fairly easy to have varying interpretations and if one does not consider complete context it is easy to arrive at a different conclusion.” These words are copied and pasted from a post by you. Somehow, you fail to follow your own advice. It seems like suddenly these blinders show up.

God gave humans the ability to think logically. It is up to humans to utilize this ability. This holds true for both Muslims and non-Muslims. You can just read this hadith and you know that it makes no sense. The verse in the Quran does not make sense with this hadith either. You know the Quran well. You have probably noticed that there are many places in the Quran that it is assumed that a particular story is known from the previous Books of God and so that story won’t be repeated but the moral of the story will be dealt with. This verse 33:69 is one of those instances. It is part of 33:53 to 33:73. This whole section talks about respect due to Muhammad and his family, slander to be avoided; and guarding your words and responsibilities. Moses’s case is used as an example for slander to be avoided towards Muhammad by the believers, and not follow the example of the children of Israel.

What is 33:69 talking about? (Muhammad Asad’s translation):
O you who have attained faith! Be not like those (children of Israel) who gave offence to Moses, and (remember that) God showed him to be innocent of whatever they alleged (against him or demanding of him): for of great honor was he in the sight of God.

I learnt that this verse is alluding to the Old Testament (Numbers 12, 1-13) when Moses’s sister Miriam and his brother Aaron spoke against Moses because Moses married an Ethiopian woman. God cleared Moses of the charge of having done anything wrong. Also in connection with this verse are the blasphemous demands of the children of Israel to Moses in the Quran 2:55 “O Moses, indeed we shall not believe thee until we see God face to face” and 5:24 “Go forth, thou and thy Sustainer, and fight, both of you!”

Mmm. Maybe you missed what I wrote about hadith; and veering off on a different topic again, I see.

I once read something by a wise man, ” In referencing Scripture, it is fairly easy to have varying interpretations and if one does not consider complete context it is easy to arrive at a different conclusion.” These words are copied and pasted from a post by you. Somehow, you fail to follow your own advice. It seems like suddenly these blinders show up.

God gave humans the ability to think logically. It is up to humans to utilize this ability. This holds true for both Muslims and non-Muslims. You can just read this hadith and you know that it makes no sense. The verse in the Quran does not make sense with this hadith either. You know the Quran well. You have probably noticed that there are many places in the Quran that it is assumed that a particular story is known from the previous Books of God and so that story won’t be repeated but the moral of the story will be dealt with. This verse 33:69 is one of those instances. It is part of 33:53 to 33:73. This whole section talks about respect due to Muhammad and his family, slander to be avoided; and guarding your words and responsibilities. Moses’s case is used as an example for slander to be avoided towards Muhammad by the believers, and not follow the example of the children of Israel.

What is 33:69 talking about? (Muhammad Asad’s translation):
O you who have attained faith! Be not like those (children of Israel) who gave offence to Moses, and (remember that) God showed him to be innocent of whatever they alleged (against him or demanding of him): for of great honor was he in the sight of God.

I learnt that this verse is alluding to the Old Testament (Numbers 12, 1-13) when Moses’s sister Miriam and his brother Aaron spoke against Moses because Moses married an Ethiopian woman. God cleared Moses of the charge of having done anything wrong. Also in connection with this verse are the blasphemous demands of the children of Israel to Moses in the Quran 2:55 “O Moses, indeed we shall not believe thee until we see God face to face” and 5:24 “Go forth, thou and thy Sustainer, and fight, both of you!”

So, the story about a rock actually stealing Moses' clothes and running away with them is inaccurate; is that what you are saying? What about the part of the Hadith that states the marks could still be seen on the rock? Was there a rock nearby when the Hadith was written to show people proof of this happening?

The stone stopped there and Moses took and put his garment on and started hitting the stone with his stick. By Allah, the stone still has some traces of the hitting, three, four or five marks.

Next: Do you believe that Muhammad split the moon into two pieces as mentioned in Hadith, Sahih Bukhari?


“…the Meccan people requested Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle, and so he showed them the splitting of the moon.” (Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 831 Narrated Anas)

“The moon was split into two parts during the lifetime of the Prophet.” (Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 832: Narrated Ibn 'Abbas)

Watch the movie "The Man That Invented Lying" if your church allows you to..

It's pretty enlightening..

Whats up with the "if your church allows you to" thing?

So, the story about a rock actually stealing Moses' clothes and running away with them is inaccurate; is that what you are saying? What about the part of the Hadith that states the marks could still be seen on the rock? Was there a rock nearby when the Hadith was written to show people proof of this happening?


What exactly is your point? If you want to go find out if there is a rock with marks on them, then by all means go do so. I can’t be bothered with such nonsense discussions by you. I would expect a more thought provoking response for this dialogue. I already told you what I found out from my research for 33:69. As I mentioned earlier, the Jewish teaching is in the Old Testament (Numbers 12, 1-13) per your query. In addition to that, other verses from the Quran may point to what that verse is referring to. This was based on two scholars who wrote translations and interpretations of the Quran: Abdullah Yusuf Ali and Muhammad Asad. I have given what I have written about hadith (twice, in fact) and its history. I assume either you haven’t read them or I wasn’t clear in them.

As far as the splitting of the moon, I first learnt about it from your post. That story has nothing to do with the theme of this post. I will read up on it whenever I get a chance and discuss it.

So, the story about a rock actually stealing Moses' clothes and running away with them is inaccurate; is that what you are saying? What about the part of the Hadith that states the marks could still be seen on the rock? Was there a rock nearby when the Hadith was written to show people proof of this happening?


What exactly is your point? If you want to go find out if there is a rock with marks on them, then by all means go do so. I can’t be bothered with such nonsense discussions by you. I would expect a more thought provoking response for this dialogue. I already told you what I found out from my research for 33:69. As I mentioned earlier, the Jewish teaching is in the Old Testament (Numbers 12, 1-13) per your query. In addition to that, other verses from the Quran may point to what that verse is referring to. This was based on two scholars who wrote translations and interpretations of the Quran: Abdullah Yusuf Ali and Muhammad Asad. I have given what I have written about hadith (twice, in fact) and its history. I assume either you haven’t read them or I wasn’t clear in them.

As far as the splitting of the moon, I first learnt about it from your post. That story has nothing to do with the theme of this post. I will read up on it whenever I get a chance and discuss it.

Okay, but as mentioned before, I have thoroughly read three versions of the Qur'an: Yusuf Ali; Pickthal and Shakir as well as Ahadith: Sahih Bukhari; Sahih Muslim; Malik's Muwatta; Sunan Abu Dawud and selections of al Gazhalli among others. What I have found are teachings within Islam that have been copied, plagiarised, revised and adopted from Jewish and Christian teachings. That points to the attempt Muhammad made to try to convince "The People of The Book" that he was also a prophet and that his prophethood now superseded that of Moses, Jesus and all others before him. Since there were "miracles" attributed to the previous prophets, Muhammad needed to convince others that he could also do miracles. The story of the spider's web being similar to the account of David is one example of a miracle claimed by Muhammad but there are other stories that are a bit questionable like the rock stealing Moses' clothes and the "splitting of the moon" by Muhammad. When you read up on that we can discuss it along with others like when an angel pulled Muhammad's heart out of his body, washed it and put it back in to him.

BTW: If you are Muslim, could you please tell me which sect of Islam you follow?
Thanks

That points to the attempt Muhammad made to try to convince "The People of The Book" that he was also a prophet and that his prophethood now superseded that of Moses, Jesus and all others before him. Since there were "miracles" attributed to the previous prophets, Muhammad needed to convince others that he could also do miracles. The story of the spider's web being similar to the account of David is one example of a miracle claimed by Muhammad but there are other stories that are a bit questionable like the rock stealing Moses' clothes and the "splitting of the moon" by Muhammad. When you read up on that we can discuss it along with others like when an angel pulled Muhammad's heart out of his body, washed it and put it back in to him.

BTW: If you are Muslim, could you please tell me which sect of Islam you follow?
Thanks


No offense, but in my opinion, you lack in your “research” skills. About a year ago or more, you had written in one of your posts to read the Quran and see what it said. I decided to do just that. In my opinion, I have always felt that all religions are there to teach how to be good. You were pointing from the Quran that it was not teaching that. I found that you were reading things out of context. Unfortunately, this is true also for many of the Muslim mullahs in countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc . I think some of them are plain ignorant bigots and some of them will do it for their political agendas.

My Muslim friend has actual copies of Abdullah Yusuf Ali and Muhammad Asad translations of the Quran with commentaries explaining the different verses. He explained a few things to me but told me that between these two scholars, I will be able to learn a lot for myself. As you put up verses in your posts, I found out by combining the works of the two authors what the whole context was of each of these verses and how they were connected with other parts of the Quran. This gave me a whole picture.

In the past, I have mentioned that I don’t care to prove any religion right or wrong. I just saw that you weren’t giving the whole picture. I felt doing proper research is essential. So I decided to check it out for myself and I started writing my understanding while reading the Quran, since it didn’t seem to match at all with your understanding. I would do this whether it was Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroaster, Judaism, Christianity, etc.

As I was doing my research, the interesting thing that I found out was that even the translations were actually interpretations of the translators. There were words that were interpreted very differently when you take actual Arabic words into account.

Example 1:

Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation of 4:1
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person,[483] created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence God, through whom[484] ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs[485] (That bore you): for God ever watches over you.

483. ^ Nafs may mean: (1) soul; (2) self; (3) person, living person; (4) will, good pleasure, as in 4:4 below. Minha; I follow the construction suggested by Imām Razi. The particle min would then suggest here not a portion or a source of something else, but a species, a nature, a similarity. The pronoun Ha refers of course to Nafs (Cf. 7:189). (R).

484. ^ All our mutual rights and duties are referred to God. We are His creatures: His Will is the standard and measure of Good; and our duties are measured by our conformity with His Will. "Our wills are ours, to make them Thine," says Tennyson (In Memoriam). Among ourselves (human beings) our mutual rights and duties arise out of God’s Law, the sense of Right that is implanted in us by Him.

485. ^ Among the most wonderful mysteries of our nature is that of sex. The unregenerate male is apt, in the pride of his physical strength, to forget the all important part which the female plays in his very existence, and in all the social relationships that arise in our collective human lives. The mother that bore us must ever have our reverence. The wife, through whom we enter parentage, must have our reverence. Sex, which governs so much our physical life, and has so much influence on our emotional and higher nature, deserves-not our fear, or our contempt, or our amused indulgence, but-our reverence in the highest sense of the term (Cf. 30:21). With this fitting introduction we enter on a discussion of women, orphans, and family relationships.

Muhammad Asad translation of 4:1

[437]O MANKIND! Be conscious of your Sustainer, who has created you out of one living entity, and out of it created its mate, and out of the two spread abroad a multitude of men and women.[438]And remain conscious of God, in whose name you demand [your rights] from one another, and of these ties of kinship. Verily, God is ever watchful over you!

437. ^ THE TITLE An-Nisa' has been given to this surah because many of its passages deal with the rights of women and with questions relating to family life in general, including laws of inheritance, prohibition of marriage within certain degrees of consanguinity, marital relations, and so forth. The opening verse stresses the essential unity of the human race and the mutual obligations, arising from this kinship, of men and women towards one another. A large part of the surah is devoted to practical legislation bearing on problems of peace and war, as well as to relations of believers with unbelievers, especially with hypocrites. Verses 150-152 refute the possibility of believing in God without believing in His prophets: and this, in turn, leads to the subject of the Jews, who deny the prophethood not only of Muhammad but also of Jesus, as well as of the Christians, who deny Muhammad and deify Jesus although he "never felt too proud to be God's servant" (verse 172). And, finally, as if to stress the inseparability of man's beliefs from his social behavior, the last verse refers, again, to laws of inheritance. There is no doubt that this surah belongs in its entirety to the Medina period. In the order of revelation it either follows immediately upon Al 'Imran or - according to some authorities - is separated from the latter, in point of time, by Al-Ahzab and Al-Mumtahanah. On the whole, however, it is most probable that it was revealed in the fourth year after the hijrah, although a few of its verses may belong to an earlier, and verse 58 to a later, period.

438. ^ Out of the many meanings attributable to the term nafs - soul, spirit, mind, animate being, living entity, human being, person, self (in the sense of a personal identity), humankind, life-essence, vital principle, and so forth - most of the classical commentators choose "human being", and assume that it refers here to Adam. Muhammad 'Abduh, however, rejects this interpretation (Manar IV, 323 ff.) and gives, instead, his preference to "humankind" inasmuch as this term stresses the common origin and brotherhood of the human race (which, undoubtedly, is the purport of the above verse), without, at the same time, unwarrantably tying it to the Biblical account of the creation of Adam and Eve. My rendering of nafs, in this context, as "living entity" follows the same reasoning - As regards the expression zawjaha ("its mate"), it is to be noted that, with reference to animate beings, the term zawj ("a pair", "one of a pair" or "a mate") applies to the male as well as to the female component of a pair or couple; hence, with reference to human beings, it signifies a woman's mate (husband) as well as a man's mate (wife). Abu Muslim - as quoted by Razi - interprets the phrase "He created out of it (minha) its mate" as meaning "He created its mate [i.e., its sexual counterpart] out of its own kind (min jinsiha)", thus supporting the view of Muhammad 'Abduh referred to above. The literal translation of minha as "out of it" clearly alludes, in conformity with the text, to the biological fact that both sexes have originated from "one living entity".

The different regional variations in Arabic comes from the different groups of countries. The most commonly used method to distinguish spoken Arabic.
• Arabian Peninsula (Khaliji Arabic) group includes:
Gulf Arabic
Baharna Arabic
Najdi Arabic
Omani Arabic
Hejazi Arabic
Shihhi Arabic
Dhofari Arabic
Yemeni Arabic
• Mesopotamian group includes:
Iraqi Arabic
North Mesopotamian Arabic
Bedawa Arabic
• Syro-Palestinian group includes:
Levantine Arabic
Judeo Arabic
Mediterranean Sea or Cypriot Arabic
• Egyptian group includes
Chadic Arabic
Sudanese Arabic
Nubi Arabic
Juba Arabic
Darfuri Arabic
Sa'idi Arabic
Egyptian Arabic
• Maghrebi Arabic group includes on the North African coast of the Mediterranean sea[8]:
Moroccan Arabic
Tunisian Arabic
Algerian Arabic
Libyan Arabic
Hassaniya Arabic
Saharan Arabic

Examples of major regional differences

The following example will illustrate similarities and differences between the literal, standardized language, and certain major urban dialects:
True pronunciations differ; transliterations used approach an approximate demonstration. Also, Literary Arabic pronunciation differs regionally.

Variety I love reading a lot
Literary Arabicʾanā ʾuḥibbu l-qirāʾahta kaṯīran
Hijaziana aħob il-grāya kθīr
Tunisian ēne nħibb il-qrēye barʃa
Egyptianana baħebb el-ʔerāya ʔawi
Lebanese ana bħibb il-ʔirēye ktīr
Iraqi āni aħibb el-qrāya kulliʃ
Kuwaiti ʔāna wāyed aħibb agrā



variety I wanted to read a book about the history of women in France.
Literary Arabic wa kuntu ʾurīdu an ʾaqraʾa kitāban ʿan tārīḫi l-marʾah fī-farānsā
Hijazi wa kont abɣa agra ktāb ʕan tarīx il-ħarīm fi fransa
Tunisian u kunt nħibb naqra ktēb ʕala tērīx l-mra fi frānsa
Egyptian w-ana kont ʕāyez aʔra ketāb ʕan tarīx el-settāt fe faransa
Lebanese wi kēn beddi ʔeʔra ktēb ʕan tērīx l-mara b-frēnse
Iraqi redet aqra ketāb ʕan tarīx al-ħarim eb-fransa
Kuwaiti kent abī agra ketāb an tarīx el-ħarīm eb fransa


I have mentioned earlier, that if you have really read what you say you have, either you are deliberately misleading people or you are just reading what suits your preconceived notions. After all your posts I have been seeing against Muslims this past year and from my own reading up on it, I personally think that this is really an act of bigotry on your part, fueled by ignorance. You are deliberately creating hatred of Muslims by misinforming. You almost had me convinced until I decided to do my own research. I do not see any difference between you and many of those mullahs in the middle eastern countries.

...
I have mentioned earlier, that if you have really read what you say you have, either you are deliberately misleading people or you are just reading what suits your preconceived notions. After all your posts I have been seeing against Muslims this past year and from my own reading up on it, I personally think that this is really an act of bigotry on your part, fueled by ignorance. You are deliberately creating hatred of Muslims by misinforming. You almost had me convinced until I decided to do my own research. I do not see any difference between you and many of those mullahs in the middle eastern countries.

Sorry you feel that way, punjabigyrl, but you are going through great lengths to try to disprove the fundamental ideology of Islam - you are not proving me wrong at all.

By the way: I do appreciate your comments, but if you are really convinced that the mullahs are misinterpreting the Qur'an by viewing women as second-class citizens, inciting jihad against non-Muslim societies, hatred and contempt toward Israel as well as hatred toward Christians, Atheists, etc., and call for honor killings against apostate Muslims - then why are you not chiding them and telling them they are wrong? Muslim leaders still want to dominate all the earth and establish a Caliphate that governs through Shari'a Laws while others (Shia) await the Islamic Saviour al Mahdi, to make his appearance and control this world under Islamic rule.

That's really the place to start so that the Muslims can prove to the world that Islam is a "peaceful religion". Otherwise, interpreting the Qur'an and Ahadith your way is of no use if you can't get the Muslim world to agree with you.

Sorry you feel that way, punjabigyrl, but you are going through great lengths to try to disprove the fundamental ideology of Islam - you are not proving me wrong at all.

By the way: I do appreciate your comments, but if you are really convinced that the mullahs are misinterpreting the Qur'an by viewing women as second-class citizens, inciting jihad against non-Muslim societies, hatred and contempt toward Israel as well as hatred toward Christians, Atheists, etc., and call for honor killings against apostate Muslims - then why are you not chiding them and telling them they are wrong? Muslim leaders still want to dominate all the earth and establish a Caliphate that governs through Shari'a Laws while others (Shia) await the Islamic Saviour al Mahdi, to make his appearance and control this world under Islamic rule.

That's really the place to start so that the Muslims can prove to the world that Islam is a "peaceful religion". Otherwise, interpreting the Qur'an and Ahadith your way is of no use if you can't get the Muslim world to agree with you.


This indeed is going to be a very exciting discussion. I am going to be out of town for a couple of weeks. Will definately continue once I get back.

This indeed is going to be a very exciting discussion. I am going to be out of town for a couple of weeks. Will definately continue once I get back.

Okay, and if you get the chance, please take some time to read the teachings of Jesus from the New Testament. This will be an important part of the discussion.
Have a good time away.