Yes this the right thing to do? I tend to think so. Interested in your thoughts.

Couple charged for children's repeated tardiness

WASHINGTON - A Loudoun County couple is facing misdemeanor charges for failing to get their children to school on time -- repeatedly.

Amy and Mark Denicore of Waterford face a trial next month because their three children have been late to Waterford Elementary School 150 times over the last two years.

Va. couple charged for children's repeated tardiness - WTOP.com (http://www.wtop.com/?nid=159&sid=2736707)

Hell yes! Morons.

Of course it's the right thing to do.

Amy and Mark Denicore of Waterford face a trial next month because their three children have been late to Waterford Elementary School 150 times over the last two years.

"We aren't perfect and I think the fact that the public school system is trying to criminalize this kind of problem is the real issue," Mark Denicore says.

Unfortunately, being an idiot is not a crime. If it were, there would be a lot more in jail.......but 150 times!!!!! :cds:

These two idiots should definitely be on trial and fined, BIG TIME!!!

Yes
I doubt if there were no complaints about being late prior to filing charges. The parents seem to think other people should accommodate their being irresponsible. Glad to see the system is taking action.

Both parents are lawyers, so of course they are taking this on. :rolleyes:



If it were simply a matter of their kids being late, I could care less. But when their arrival into the classroom disrupts the kids who are engaging in their daily schedule, and disrupts the train of thought for the teachers, then I have a problem with that.

Get the damn kids there in time, and this wouldn't be a problem

Of course it's the right thing to do.

Depends.. Watch the wording in the article.

They even say "IF" the students disrupt class.. which seems to tell they really don't disrupt the class.

Let's say your kids go to a local school here, and you KNOW that school starts at 9:00... but the real definition of starts is, they all sit at their desks and eat the free provided breakfast, or meet in the cafeteria for the first 30 minutes of the day.

If you brought your kid in 20 minutes late EVERY day, what difference would it make? What exactly would they be disrupting?

They would have to show me more FACTS before I gave an opinion, right now I'm leaning more towards the parents. What do they disrupt, and what effect does it have on the daily schedule? The article points out neither.

Another link: Tardiness Leads to Charges for Students' Parents | NBC4 Washington (http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Tardiness-Leads-to-Charges-for-Students-Parents-138822729.html)

Morning commutes can be lengthy, but the Denicores half a mile away from the elementary school -- less than a two-minute drive.

Denicore admitted he knew the court summons was coming but said there are other important things to teach children besides timeliness, like eating a good breakfast and tying their own shoes.

“It’s like herding cats trying to get them all heading in the right direction,” Denicore said.

:bs:

Try getting them all up a bit earlier. :rolleyes:

Depends.. Watch the wording in the article.

They even say "IF" the students disrupt class.. which seems to tell they really don't disrupt the class.



Disagree. Every time a class is interrupted, especially at grade-school level, there is a disruption.

The parents have a problem getting the kids there. Not the kids fault. Even if only three minutes, consistently, it is a parental time-challenged issue.

Put them on the local school bus. If the bus is late, no issue.

I didn't read the article, but I personally find it absurd to charge the parents with anything. Welcome to the Nanny state. Whatever happened to schools taking care of issues? Make the kid sit in the office until there is a break in the class, even if it is hours. Don't let the kid make up the work. Deal with it at the school level for crying out loud.

I didn't read the article, but I personally find it absurd to charge the parents with anything. Welcome to the Nanny state. Whatever happened to schools taking care of issues? Make the kid sit in the office until there is a break in the class, even if it is hours. Don't let the kid make up the work. Deal with it at the school level for crying out loud.

Read the articles! :boxing:

I didn't read the article, but I personally find it absurd to charge the parents with anything. Welcome to the Nanny state. Whatever happened to schools taking care of issues? Make the kid sit in the office until there is a break in the class, even if it is hours. Don't let the kid make up the work. Deal with it at the school level for crying out loud.

They live 2 miles from the school
The only reason the kids are chronically late is because they're special and the rules every body else has to live by don't apply to them.
They're to special to ride the bus and to special to show any courtesy to anybody in the school.

Hope the judge throws the book at them

Denicore admitted he knew the court summons was coming but said there are other important things to teach children besides timelinessYeah, don't teach your kids to be on time for anything. It won't matter to them later in life....like getting to work on time or getting to the doctors on time. Hell, they probably won't make it to your funeral on time either. That's probably the only time it won't matter.

You can't fix stupid.

Depends.. Watch the wording in the article.

They even say "IF" the students disrupt class.. which seems to tell they really don't disrupt the class.

Let's say your kids go to a local school here, and you KNOW that school starts at 9:00... but the real definition of starts is, they all sit at their desks and eat the free provided breakfast, or meet in the cafeteria for the first 30 minutes of the day.

If you brought your kid in 20 minutes late EVERY day, what difference would it make? What exactly would they be disrupting?

They would have to show me more FACTS before I gave an opinion, right now I'm leaning more towards the parents. What do they disrupt, and what effect does it have on the daily schedule? The article points out neither.

Going strictly on what information was in the article...

I believe that the word "if" was used as part of an "if - then" scenario, ie., if they ____ then this happens.

It is a disruption when you have kids walking into the classroom after the rest of the group has gotten started with whatever it is that they are doing. Not all schools do breakfast in the classroom. When a child walks in late, all the kids look to see who has entered the classroom and the attention focus is lost. The latecomer needs to put the coat & backpack away & then get to their seat, more opportunity for loss of focus. The teacher must then re-focus the attention of the group on the daily lesson, so the late arrival impacts the entire class. The child arriving late is playing catch-up and may have missed directions or other important information for the beginning of the day. The late arrival may interrupt the morning announcements (via PA or broadcast) in which case you have students and teacher missing important information for that day.

I've done the herding cats routine (with 4 kids, not 3) and 6 of us trying to get to the one bathroom at the same time. My kids were NEVER late to school. I may have been late to work (designated cat-herder) a few times but I had understanding employers and my arrivals could be flexible on most days due to my schedules.

By the time it gets to this stage, the school has already attempted to work with the parents -- talking to the kids, sending notes home, calling the parents, sending more letters home, calling the parents, involving the guidance counselor and maybe a pupil personnel worker (school social worker), more phone calls. Quite frankly, it gets to the point that so much extra time is being spent on contacting these parents that it really becomes a time/resource/disruption issue for the school.

Why should these two parents be allowed to take up so much of the school's valuable time and negatively impact so many other people (3 classrooms, 3 teachers, Principal, Assistant Principal, Secretary, Guidance Counselor, higher-up administrative staff, etc. -- close to 100 folks right there!)?

If these folks can't be responsible enough to get their kids to school on time, then perhaps they should teach them at home. I'd love to hear what a judge would say if that lawyer happened to be late for court...

I actually prefer the expression "herding turtles" because that is what it feels like most of the time. That being I hate being late and am usually 5-10 minutes early for everything.

Depends.. Watch the wording in the article.

They even say "IF" the students disrupt class.. which seems to tell they really don't disrupt the class.

Let's say your kids go to a local school here, and you KNOW that school starts at 9:00... but the real definition of starts is, they all sit at their desks and eat the free provided breakfast, or meet in the cafeteria for the first 30 minutes of the day.

If you brought your kid in 20 minutes late EVERY day, what difference would it make? What exactly would they be disrupting?

They would have to show me more FACTS before I gave an opinion, right now I'm leaning more towards the parents. What do they disrupt, and what effect does it have on the daily schedule? The article points out neither.

That's not what I got from the article. It seems that the kids are arriving at school after classes have started. In my case, for my high schooler, first period starts at 8am. All kids who want to have breakfast at school have to do so prior to 8am. If I brought my kid to school at 8:20 everyday, he would be missing half of his biology class everyday and would likely fail that class because he'd be missing half of all instruction. So, the lateness does make a difference.

According to one article about them, the some of the tardy slips say 0 minutes late. How late is that?

And what about the kids growing up thinking they are better or that normal rules don't apply to them because that's how the parents have raised them?

That's not what I got from the article. It seems that the kids are arriving at school after classes have started. In my case, for my high schooler, first period starts at 8am. All kids who want to have breakfast at school have to do so prior to 8am. If I brought my kid to school at 8:20 everyday, he would be missing half of his biology class everyday and would likely fail that class because he'd be missing half of all instruction. So, the lateness does make a difference.

In your particular case that is true, and would agree with you, but for some reason the article leaves out those kind of details..

If what I think is the case, you may be teaching your kids future life lessons about not making rules or decisions for the sake of just saying you did it. Have a purpose and sound reasoning behind things you do.

Going strictly on what information was in the article...

I believe that the word "if" was used as part of an "if - then" scenario, ie., if they ____ then this happens.

It is a disruption when you have kids walking into the classroom after the rest of the group has gotten started with whatever it is that they are doing. Not all schools do breakfast in the classroom. When a child walks in late, all the kids look to see who has entered the classroom and the attention focus is lost. The latecomer needs to put the coat & backpack away & then get to their seat, more opportunity for loss of focus. The teacher must then re-focus the attention of the group on the daily lesson, so the late arrival impacts the entire class. The child arriving late is playing catch-up and may have missed directions or other important information for the beginning of the day. The late arrival may interrupt the morning announcements (via PA or broadcast) in which case you have students and teacher missing important information for that day.

I've done the herding cats routine (with 4 kids, not 3) and 6 of us trying to get to the one bathroom at the same time. My kids were NEVER late to school. I may have been late to work (designated cat-herder) a few times but I had understanding employers and my arrivals could be flexible on most days due to my schedules.

By the time it gets to this stage, the school has already attempted to work with the parents -- talking to the kids, sending notes home, calling the parents, sending more letters home, calling the parents, involving the guidance counselor and maybe a pupil personnel worker (school social worker), more phone calls. Quite frankly, it gets to the point that so much extra time is being spent on contacting these parents that it really becomes a time/resource/disruption issue for the school.

Why should these two parents be allowed to take up so much of the school's valuable time and negatively impact so many other people (3 classrooms, 3 teachers, Principal, Assistant Principal, Secretary, Guidance Counselor, higher-up administrative staff, etc. -- close to 100 folks right there!)?

If these folks can't be responsible enough to get their kids to school on time, then perhaps they should teach them at home. I'd love to hear what a judge would say if that lawyer happened to be late for court...

I'd love to add something to this, but you've pretty much got it covered. These parents are spewing complete BS. Hundreds of other families in that school have accepted responsibility for arriving on time, but this one doesn't have to? When they live that close, and have the privilege of driving instead of putting the kids on the bus? Just complete bull####.

That said, the article mentions some municipality where the penalty is up to a year in jail - that's extreme. And who puts the kids on the bus then? Just keep citing & fining them, and let their arrogance fund the school system.

And what about the kids growing up thinking they are better or that normal rules don't apply to them because that's how the parents have raised them?

I'm betting that ship has already sailed.

And what about the kids growing up thinking they are better or that normal rules don't apply to them because that's how the parents have raised them?

And they'll probably grow up to be the next generations doctors and lawyers while the rule followers will be line workers at the GM plant..

Which would you choose for YOUR child?

And they'll probably grow up to be the next generations doctors and lawyers while the rule followers will be line workers at the GM plant..

Which would you choose for YOUR child?

Yeah I hear medical school and law school classes are real forgiving about people who are chronically late to class.

If a child is in elementary/middle school it is definitely the parents fault and I'm glad to see that there are some actual consequences for this problem.

I don't know how I feel about where the blame lies with high school students... it is hard to force teenagers to do anything. (I know you can give them other consequences and punishments, but that doesn't seem to work on all of them. They are big enough to physically get up and walk away or do whatever they want.) I guess parents could drive their teenagers to school each day IF they could get them up. Their should be some consequences for both.

Read the articles! :boxing:

I did, and I still stand by my initial assessment. :razz:

It is ridiculous to bog down our court system with stupid stuff like this when the school should just grow a set and put the hammer down themselves. :shrug: How hard is it to make it more miserable than it is worth to bring your kid in late?

I did, and I still stand by my initial assessment. :razz:

It is ridiculous to bog down our court system with stupid stuff like this when the school should just grow a set and put the hammer down themselves. :shrug: How hard is it to make it more miserable than it is worth to bring your kid in late?

What would you have the school do?

I did, and I still stand by my initial assessment. :razz:

It is ridiculous to bog down our court system with stupid stuff like this when the school should just grow a set and put the hammer down themselves. :shrug: How hard is it to make it more miserable than it is worth to bring your kid in late?

Perhaps the school did try other alternatives and this is their last resort. :shrug:

What would you have the school do?

Have the kid sit in the office until the next bathroom break before going to class, no allowances for making up what he/she missed. If the kid can't pass the areas that were missed don't promote the kid to the next grade. :shrug:

I just think with as many problems the courts have to deal with on a daily basis, something like this is absurd.

If I were Queen of the World there would be no public school system, it would all be private and each school would have the right to boot out those not living up to the school standards.

Have the kid sit in the office until the next bathroom break before going to class, no allowances for making up what he/she missed. If the kid can't pass the areas that were missed don't promote the kid to the next grade. :shrug:


I like your train of thought and it's not a solution I would have thrown around in my head. However, I feel that this is punishing the child (who is a minor and may not have the means to get ready themselves, and transport themselves) vs the parent who should be responsible for their children. Now, if there is a student in HS that drives daily to and from school on their own, I can see then where you would put the blame on the child. But in this instance, I don't think it's fair.

I like your train of thought and it's not a solution I would have thrown around in my head. However, I feel that this is punishing the child (who is a minor and may not have the means to get ready themselves, and transport themselves) vs the parent who should be responsible for their children. Now, if there is a student in HS that drives daily to and from school on their own, I can see then where you would put the blame on the child. But in this instance, I don't think it's fair.

A story indicated that they were in elementary school. If that is the case for all 3 kids, they can be between the ages of 4/5 through 10/11. The older ones should be able to get themselves together moreso than a pre-ker. Also, who's to say that the kids are ready to go and it is the parents that just don't get them in the car and delivered on time, due to their laziness. Thus, blaming the children.

Just another thought.

And they'll probably grow up to be the next generations doctors and lawyers while the rule followers will be line workers at the GM plant..

Which would you choose for YOUR child?

:confused: Are you having fun trolling today, bob? It is absolutely possible to be a success in life AND show up for school/work on time. I get your point - and have every intention of teaching my kids when to sidestep/break a rule - but getting to class on time is still a worthy goal. Everybody is late now & then, #### happens, but hundreds of times a year isn't gonna cut it.

Perhaps the school did try other alternatives and this is their last resort. :shrug:

This would be my assumption.

:confused: Are you having fun trolling today, bob? It is absolutely possible to be a success in life AND show up for school/work on time. I get your point - and have every intention of teaching my kids when to sidestep/break a rule - but getting to class on time is still a worthy goal. Everybody is late now & then, #### happens, but hundreds of times a year isn't gonna cut it.



This would be my assumption.

Too busy to troll..

Have to post and run, and come back later see if anyone took the bait..

More like crabbin than trollin..

Have the kid sit in the office until the next bathroom break before going to class, no allowances for making up what he/she missed. If the kid can't pass the areas that were missed don't promote the kid to the next grade. :shrug:

I just think with as many problems the courts have to deal with on a daily basis, something like this is absurd.

If I were Queen of the World there would be no public school system, it would all be private and each school would have the right to boot out those not living up to the school standards.

This would be considered an academic punishment for a behavioral issue, which is generally not allowed. even if a student is suspended, you must give them the opportunity to make up the work that they missed. In some cases, teachers are even expected to put together the work and send it home so the student can complete it while suspended (not that they ever do)

See it is hard for me to pick a side on this one, I was on the crappy end of "being late to school" for about a month last year. Our bus never comes on time when it is supposed to. It is supposed to get to my house at 8:35 am. It will get here between 8:10 and 8:40. to me that is a long time for my kids to stand out in the cold and wait. The first month she did this we missed alot. By the time I got dressed and woke and dressed the babies we were just making it to school. Sattelite office closes at 8:10 and class starts at 8:15. We would get there at 8:08, 8:09 or 8:10 and the sattelite office was closed. If you walk your kid in even if sattelite is still open you have to sign them in late no matter what time it is. There was always a line of parents complaining so I would just sign mine in and leave quietly. I got in "trouble" from the school for it and they tried talking to me like a two year old wanting to know what they needed to do to make me get there on time. I told them it was simple, make the bus come when it is supposed to. Even though the bus does not come when it is supposed to the driver has it narrowed doen to a 5-10 minute window. which isnt too bad.

See it is hard for me to pick a side on this one, I was on the crappy end of "being late to school" for about a month last year. Our bus never comes on time when it is supposed to. It is supposed to get to my house at 8:35 am. It will get here between 8:10 and 8:40. to me that is a long time for my kids to stand out in the cold and wait. The first month she did this we missed alot. By the time I got dressed and woke and dressed the babies we were just making it to school. Sattelite office closes at 8:10 and class starts at 8:15. We would get there at 8:08, 8:09 or 8:10 and the sattelite office was closed. If you walk your kid in even if sattelite is still open you have to sign them in late no matter what time it is. There was always a line of parents complaining so I would just sign mine in and leave quietly. I got in "trouble" from the school for it and they tried talking to me like a two year old wanting to know what they needed to do to make me get there on time. I told them it was simple, make the bus come when it is supposed to. Even though the bus does not come when it is supposed to the driver has it narrowed doen to a 5-10 minute window. which isnt too bad.

In your case, you're putting forth effort to make sure your kids get to school on time. The folks in the article don't seem to care.

Have the kid sit in the office until the next bathroom break before going to class, no allowances for making up what he/she missed. If the kid can't pass the areas that were missed don't promote the kid to the next grade. :shrug:

I just think with as many problems the courts have to deal with on a daily basis, something like this is absurd.

If I were Queen of the World there would be no public school system, it would all be private and each school would have the right to boot out those not living up to the school standards.

Your solution is more suited for high school aged kids. The article is talking about elementary school aged kids. It's not right to punish a kid at that age because their parents are messed up.

See it is hard for me to pick a side on this one, I was on the crappy end of "being late to school" for about a month last year. Our bus never comes on time when it is supposed to. It is supposed to get to my house at 8:35 am. It will get here between 8:10 and 8:40. to me that is a long time for my kids to stand out in the cold and wait. The first month she did this we missed alot. By the time I got dressed and woke and dressed the babies we were just making it to school. Sattelite office closes at 8:10 and class starts at 8:15. We would get there at 8:08, 8:09 or 8:10 and the sattelite office was closed. If you walk your kid in even if sattelite is still open you have to sign them in late no matter what time it is. There was always a line of parents complaining so I would just sign mine in and leave quietly. I got in "trouble" from the school for it and they tried talking to me like a two year old wanting to know what they needed to do to make me get there on time. I told them it was simple, make the bus come when it is supposed to. Even though the bus does not come when it is supposed to the driver has it narrowed doen to a 5-10 minute window. which isnt too bad.What the heck are you going to do when your kid hits middle school and the bus schedule is closer to 6-6:30 for pickup? You'll have to adjust YOUR schedule in order, right? Get up earlier and you'll have time to dress yourself and the babies in order to meet the schedule. Glad I could help. :huggy:

What the heck are you going to do when your kid hits middle school and the bus schedule is closer to 6-6:30 for pickup? You'll have to adjust YOUR schedule in order, right? Get up earlier and you'll have time to dress yourself and the babies in order to meet the schedule. Glad I could help. :huggy:

Some people's parents... :roflmao:

And they'll probably grow up to be the next generations doctors and lawyers while the rule followers will be line workers at the GM plant..

Which would you choose for YOUR child?

Just what I'd want...a doctor late to my critical surgery or a lawyer late to a hearing...especially a divorce hearing...that would excite me to no end...

What the heck are you going to do when your kid hits middle school and the bus schedule is closer to 6-6:30 for pickup? You'll have to adjust YOUR schedule in order, right? Get up earlier and you'll have time to dress yourself and the babies in order to meet the schedule. Glad I could help. :huggy:I'll have you know that I took my son to the bus stop this morning in my pj's. I'm still in my pj's. And when I pick him up from the bus stop this afternoon, I'll likely still be in my pj's. :diva:

I'll have you know that I took my son to the bus stop this morning in my pj's. I'm still in my pj's. And when I pick him up from the bus stop this afternoon, I'll likely still be in my pj's. :diva:

I have driven mine to school while wearing my pj's. :lol:

I did, and I still stand by my initial assessment. :razz:

It is ridiculous to bog down our court system with stupid stuff like this when the school should just grow a set and put the hammer down themselves. :shrug: How hard is it to make it more miserable than it is worth to bring your kid in late?

I guess school, learning responsibility and accountability for actions, passing on to your off-spawn, etc., is stupid stuff?

Sounds very OWS to me.

I doubt that this problem is confined to just one family, but they seem to be at the tip of the spear on this issue. If they get away with it, it just opens the door for precedent being set.

It's on the parents. Unfortunately, kids do often pay for their parents mistakes or ignorance.

I like your train of thought and it's not a solution I would have thrown around in my head. However, I feel that this is punishing the child (who is a minor and may not have the means to get ready themselves, and transport themselves) vs the parent who should be responsible for their children. Now, if there is a student in HS that drives daily to and from school on their own, I can see then where you would put the blame on the child. But in this instance, I don't think it's fair.

Life is hard. :shrug: Kids suffer the consequences for things their parents do all the time. Maybe the parents might feel a bit crappy and change their ways if it was their darling child that suffered the consequences of their inability to get moving a little bit earlier. As it stands, they're lawyers correct? Probably make a good bit of money and probably don't mind that much getting a couple fines.

This would be considered an academic punishment for a behavioral issue, which is generally not allowed. even if a student is suspended, you must give them the opportunity to make up the work that they missed. In some cases, teachers are even expected to put together the work and send it home so the student can complete it while suspended (not that they ever do)

This is so absurd. Schools are ridiculously touchy feely these days. To the detriment of the child in my humble opinion. Unfortunately the real world does not make these silly distinctions and many kids these days are ill equipped to be able to adjust when they enter the working world.

Your solution is more suited for high school aged kids. The article is talking about elementary school aged kids. It's not right to punish a kid at that age because their parents are messed up.

By the time they get to high school it's too late. :ohwell:

By the time they get to high school it's too late. :ohwell:


Which is why the parents need to be dealt with sooner rather than later.

What the heck are you going to do when your kid hits middle school and the bus schedule is closer to 6-6:30 for pickup? You'll have to adjust YOUR schedule in order, right? Get up earlier and you'll have time to dress yourself and the babies in order to meet the schedule. Glad I could help. :huggy:

at the time my "babies" were 4 mos and 21 mos, since they are not getting on the bus I saw no reason to wake and dress them everyday just encase we had bus issues.