Link to original article. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/21/mormons-posthumous-baptism-anne-frank_n_1292102.html)

"Anne Frank, (http://www.annefrank.org/en/) the Jewish girl whose diary and death in a Nazi concentration camp made her a symbol of the Holocaust, was allegedly baptized posthumously Saturday by a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, according to whistle-blower Helen Radkey, a former member of the church.

The ritual was conducted in a Mormon temple in the Dominican Republic, according to Radkey, a Salt Lake City researcher who investigates such incidents, which violate a 2010 pact between the Mormon Church and Jewish leaders.

Radkey said she discovered that Annelies Marie "Anne" Frank, who died at Bergen Belsen death camp in 1945 at age 15, was baptized by proxy on Saturday. Mormons have submitted versions of her name at least a dozen times for proxy rites and carried out the ritual at least nine times from 1989 to 1999, according to Radkey. But Radkey says this is the first time in more than a decade that Frank's name has been discovered in a database that can be used both for genealogy and also to submit a deceased person's name to be considered for proxy baptism -- a separate process, according to a spokesman for the church. The database is only open to Mormons.

A screen shot of the database sent by Radkey shows a page for Frank stating "completed" next to categories labeled "Baptism" and "Confirmation," with the date Feb. 18, 2012, and the name of the Santo Domingo Dominican Republic Temple.

As The Huffington Post has reported, Mormon posthumous proxy baptism has continued, despite church vows to stop."

I think we should posthumously try Franklin Roosevelt for the evil he helped force upon the republic, but that would be about as pointless and irrelevant as a posthumous baptism.

:killingme you progressive idiots pick the weirdest things to get upset about.

Who the hell cares that some morman in the Dominican Republic decided to baptize a Jewish girl who was murdered 62 years ago.


Aren you somehow going to blame Romney? :lol:

I don't get why everyone is so worked up about this. If we believe their baptism is meaningless, then what is the harm?
The only thing that makes any sense is if they are recording people as converts to LDS as a result. That would bother me if my great grandchildren did a genealogical study and thought that I was Mormon.
Other than that, I think this is all a major over reaction.

I don't get why everyone is so worked up about this. If we believe their baptism is meaningless, then what is the harm?
The only thing that makes any sense is if they are recording people as converts to LDS as a result. That would bother me if my great grandchildren did a genealogical study and thought that I was Mormon.
Other than that, I think this is all a major over reaction.

libby, when I was studying Mormonism (several years ago) I was told that the LDS Church collects ALL birth/death records of people and does proxy baptisms for them. That includes "everyone" whose records they can obtain. Notice how, if you want to trace your family tree, you can go to any LDS Genealogical source to gather info on your ancestors. The LDS research is open to all people and they more than likely will have family tree info on your relatives and those of your hubby.

I don't know if that practice has changed, though, since their recent public relations spokespeople now maintain that it is only for Mormon congregants who wish to conduct a "proxy baptism" for their relatives that passed away and who did not get a chance to hear and accept the LDS Gospel. This way they can convert to become a Mormon in the spiritual after-life where they have passed on to.

As far as the ritual of "proxy baptism" by the LDS, they are taught that only the Mormon Church has been designated exclusive rights to perform baptisms unto "salvation". I will be including some info from the LDS that addresses the subject of "baptism for the dead".

Still love you as a friend. :flowers:

About the LDS practice of baptizing for the dead:

(article excerpts)


Mormon Baptism for The Dead
Mormonism (or the doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) teaches that baptism by water is a necessary ordinance for people to return to God their Heavenly Father. Mormons assert that the ordinance must be performed in the proper way and with the authority of Christ's priesthood.
Many people have died without receiving a valid baptism, and they cannot undergo this precious ritual as mere spirits. "Because all on the earth do not have the opportunity to accept the gospel during mortality, the Lord has authorized baptisms performed by proxy for the dead. Therefore, those who accept the gospel in the spirit world may qualify for entrance into God's kingdom" (See Guide to the Scriptures). One thing that should be made perfectly clear about Mormon baptisms for the dead is that each deceased soul has the personal choice to accept or reject it. There is nothing in Mormonism that states that the person who is being baptized by proxy must accept this ordinance; he or she is simply given the opportunity to choose.
Baptisms for the dead can only be performed in Mormon temples.

Source: Article on Mormon Baptism for the Dead (http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/mormon/baptism/)

and;

Baptism for The Dead
We believe that the souls, or spirits, of those who have died without an opportunity to be baptized by an authorized servant of God will have that opportunity afforded to them. Because a person who has died can no longer be baptized, Latter-day Saints perform “baptisms for the dead” in Mormon temples. This is a ritual which involves a living person being baptized in place of someone who is dead. We also call this being baptized by proxy.
Latter-day Saints do not believe that when a dead person is baptized by proxy in an LDS temple that the person automatically becomes a member of the LDS Church. We believe that the individual, though their body is dead, is alive and eternal. That individual, temporarily residing in a place we call the “spirit world,” will have the opportunity to either accept or reject the baptism performed on their behalf.
Source: Baptisms for the Dead | Mormon Temples (http://mormontemples.net/practices/proxy-baptism)


and;

Baptism for the Dead
Family history is a huge part of Mormon doctrine. Mormons believe that the Spirit of Elijah is to “turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I [the Lord] come and smite the earth with a curse” (Malachi 4:6). Mormons also believe that Elijah had the sealing power, the priesthood keys, to bind families together eternally. This power was restored to this earth through Joseph Smith, and this power is now held in temples across the earth. Families need to be sealed together in order to be saved. We have a responsibility to save our kindred dead who had no opportunity in their lifetimes to hear the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Mormons do not do random temple work. Each member is encouraged to do his or her own family history work and to take these names to the temple to do that work as well, by proxy. An individual is not authorized to do random work for other people to whom they are not related. If a very good friend passes away and they have no relatives who are members of the Church, then permission must be obtained from the nearest living relative in order to do temple work for that individual.

Mormon doctrine also teaches that any work done by proxy in the temple is conditional upon that individual accepting that work in the next life. This means that no free agency is taken away from anyone. If they do not wish to accept these ordinances, it is as if they made that decision while in this life. However, if these ordinances are done by proxy, at least that individual is able to make that choice for him- or herself.
Baptisms for the dead are only done in temples. This work can be participated in by worthy youth in the Church as young as 12. Those who participate in doing baptisms for the dead also participate in confirmations for the dead. Mormon doctrine teaches that a baptism without confirmation is worth nothing because the two together comprise the ordinance.

The font where baptisms for the dead are performed is always underground in temples. This adds to the symbolism of the ordinance of baptism by immersion. A body is “buried” in the water, representing death and burial, then it is brought forth again, symbolizing the resurrection of the Savior as well as the future resurrection of that individual. All temple fonts are placed symbolically on the backs of twelve carved oxen, which represent the twelve tribes of Israel.

Source:
Baptisms for the Dead | Philadelphia Mormon Temple (http://philadelphiamormontemple.com/2011/04/06/baptisms-for-the-dead/)

I don't get why everyone is so worked up about this. If we believe their baptism is meaningless, then what is the harm?
The only thing that makes any sense is if they are recording people as converts to LDS as a result. That would bother me if my great grandchildren did a genealogical study and thought that I was Mormon.
Other than that, I think this is all a major over reaction.

:yay:

If the Mormons are wrong, where's the harm? I seriously doubt that God will punish anyone because someone decided to reicte their name in a ritual.

If they're right, they just saved a soul.

And I have been baptised for a number of dead people, in the SLC temple.

Can someone explain how a conformation would work after that person is dead?

Can someone explain how a conformation would work after that person is dead?

According to the following info, there is a "confirmation room" within the LDS Temple where the baptism by proxy ceremony is completed:




Baptism for the Dead is a ritual invented by Joseph Smith for the purpose of entering dead people into heaven who did not have the opportunity, or who did not take the opportunity to join the Mormon Church. According to Tanner, “Even though the Book of Mormon is supposed to contain the fullness of the gospel, it never mentions the doctrine of baptism for the dead, not even once. The word ‘baptism’ appears 25 times in the Book of Mormon. The word ‘baptize’ appears 28 times. The word ‘baptized’ appears 85 times, and the word ‘baptizing appears 6 times, but the doctrine of baptism for the dead isn’t even mentioned once.” 1 If the Mormon Church claims that the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of the gospel, then why are Mormons doing baptisms for the dead when it is not mentioned in the Book of Mormon?
Baptism for the Dead is further discussed in the scholarly book The Mormon Conspiracy

As described by Scott, the baptisms were performed in the Mormon temples in a special baptismal font room, “...which held an immense bowl-like metallic font which was supported on the backs of statues of twelve life-sized brass oxen, symbolic of the twelve tribes of Israel. A platform extended along one side of the great bowl....” 2

Scott, who performed in several Mormon baptisms for the dead continues: “...One by one we were called by name to descend into the font. A recorder sat on a high stool, not unlike a lifeguard’s stand, at one side of the font, and witnesses watched. An elder stood in the font in garments like ours, and beckoned for each participant as his or her turn came. He spoke the baptismal prayer in a hurried, monotonous voice, stopping only to lower a proxy into the water.

“I sat on the platform, looking furtively for the angels I had heard often appeared in temples. When my name was called, I went down into the water. The baptizing elder turned me around so that he could see a large screen, something like an electronic football scoreboard, which he looked at over my shoulder. On top of the screen was my name, and below it a name I don’t remember, but which I’ll say was Elizabeth Anderson.

“ ‘Sister Celester Latayne Colvett,’ he said, looking at the screen, ‘having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you, for and in behalf of Elizabeth Anderson, who is dead, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen.’ Then he quickly dropped his right arm from the square and lowered me beneath the water. As I was regaining my footing he had already begun the same prayer, inserting this time the name of another dead woman which had flashed onto the screen behind me. Fifteen consecutive baptisms were performed with me as proxy in a matter of about three minutes. As I left the font, another proxy was preparing to be baptized.” 3

This ceremony is completed in the confirmation room, and goes on daily in the temples for thousands of dead.. Millions, probably billions of the dead have been baptized including “deceased presidents of the United States and other prominent persons of the past including Catholic popes and saints......Wilford Woodruff, a president of the Mormon Church during the turn of the century, said that on April 10, 1898, all of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, along with George Washington, appeared to him in the St. George Temple two nights in a row, begging that vicarious ordinance be done for them. Woodruff obliged, and also did the proxy work for Christopher Columbus, John Wesley, and other prominent men of the past, one hundred in all.” 4

Unbelievable? Can one believe that the Mormon Church is credible when a president (prophet) of the church claimed that he actually talked to George Washington and all of the signers of the Declaration of Independence almost one hundred years after they were dead? Baptism of the dead is one of the most ludicrous and disconcerting practices of the Mormon Church. It has been said that the Mormon Church spends millions of dollars on researching genealogies in order to do proxy work. Scott writes for example “...the LDS church spent over 125 million dollars [in 1975] on genealogical and proxy work, employing over eighty camera crews just to keep up with microfilming the bales of documents which pour in daily.”

Source: Baptism For The Dead (http://mormonconspiracy.com/baptism-for-the-dead.html)



Perhaps MMDad can share what specifically takes place in the confirmation room.

Unbelievable? Can one believe that the Mormon Church is credible when a president (prophet) of the church claimed that he actually talked to George Washington and all of the signers of the Declaration of Independence almost one hundred years after they were dead? Baptism of the dead is one of the most ludicrous and disconcerting practices of the Mormon Church. It has been said that the Mormon Church spends millions of dollars on researching genealogies in order to do proxy work. Scott writes for example “...the LDS church spent over 125 million dollars [in 1975] on genealogical and proxy work, employing over eighty camera crews just to keep up with microfilming the bales of documents which pour in daily.”



WOW REALLY?? It's UNBELIEVABLE that someone can talk to people dead for a hundred years, that this person has no credibility at ALL..

Yet they believe that a few hundred years ago their prophets talked to bushes, and lived to be 600 years old. Their priests, pastors, and other leaders talk to God daily..

Pot, meet kettle.

Unbelievable? Can one believe that the Mormon Church is credible when a president (prophet) of the church claimed that he actually talked to George Washington and all of the signers of the Declaration of Independence almost one hundred years after they were dead? Baptism of the dead is one of the most ludicrous and disconcerting practices of the Mormon Church. It has been said that the Mormon Church spends millions of dollars on researching genealogies in order to do proxy work. Scott writes for example “...the LDS church spent over 125 million dollars [in 1975] on genealogical and proxy work, employing over eighty camera crews just to keep up with microfilming the bales of documents which pour in daily.”



WOW REALLY?? It's UNBELIEVABLE that someone can talk to people dead for a hundred years, that this person has no credibility at ALL..

Yet they believe that a few hundred years ago their prophets talked to bushes, and lived to be 600 years old. Their priests, pastors, and other leaders talk to God daily..

Pot, meet kettle.

The OT Prophets talked with God - heard from Him directly. God is Not Dead.

The OT Prophets talked with God - heard from Him directly. God is Not Dead.

SO the Bush was God? But I thought he was the Son??

Which is an interesting factoid..

If God was the Son, than God didn't sacrifice his Son, but in fact comitted suicide..

Makes you want to say.. hmmmm....

SO the Bush was God? But I thought he was the Son??


Sorry, Bush, Sr. and Bush, Jr. were presidents; not Gods.

However, the Biblical "bush" was not God either nor was it the bush that spoke. It was the presence of God emanating and manifesting to Moses that was heard



If God was the Son, than God didn't sacrifice his Son, but in fact comitted suicide..

Makes you want to say.. hmmmm....

God is a spirit (John 4:24) God became flesh in order to enter the realm of this earth and take upon Himself the form of man in the person of The New Testament Jesus accounts.

Jesus did not "commit suicide" - He was sentenced to the death penalty imposed by the Laws of Moses by the Orthodox religious leaders who lived "under the law". Through that act He willingly shed His Blood as an Atonement so that those who place faith in Him can escape the penalty of eternal death that will be imposed upon lost souls by God at the end of this world.

There is no condemnation for those who acknowledge their need for God's Plan of Salvation and place faith in Christ as personal Lord and Saviour.

So you agree then, according to your interpretation, Jesus was God in the flesh?

He came to our earth to fulfill the atonement, and did not in fact sacrifice his son, but sacrificed himself.

According to the following info, there is a "confirmation room" within the LDS Temple where the baptism by proxy ceremony is completed:




Perhaps MMDad can share what specifically takes place in the confirmation room.

well I can tell you that conformation is when the individual, for a lack of better terms, confirms his/her faith in the teaching of the church in question.
Now, if someone is say Jewish? and dies Jewish, then it is obvious that they could not have confirmed their faith in the teachings of any christian church. So a conformation in reality could not take place.
baptism? maybe. But 60 years after death? that might be stretching it a bit with the soul going to heaven timeline and such.

I dont get it

So you agree then, according to your interpretation, Jesus was God in the flesh?

He came to our earth to fulfill the atonement, and did not in fact sacrifice his son, but sacrificed himself.

God, being Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent, resided spiritually within the person of Jesus while at the same time existing in His Divine Glory outside of man's knowledge of time/space dimension.

Jesus, as God/man, was then able to be like "one of us" yet He knew no sin like all of us.

IOW: God had to become part human in order to live a perfect human life - something none of us could ever do to prepare a perfect "Sacrificial Lamb". As "The Lamb of God," Jesus became the only acceptable Sacrifice that provides the power for God to forgive your sins and mine where we have transgressed against His laws.

It is through becoming like one of us that Jesus is The Son of God who was also able to feel the human pain, suffering, persecution and all the infirmities that face mankind and why He is able to Promise that one day all the pain and suffering and evil in this world will be done away with.

Ultimately, Jesus is God's way of doing what we couldn't do and that's "save ourselves" from the penalty of eternal death due to our sins and transgressions against the Laws of God. So, He had to do it for us - He took the rap on our behalf. Thus, God offers His Plan of Salvation to those who are covered by the Atoning Blood of the New Testament Jesus Christ.

One can choose to believe or not believe in God's Plan of Salvation that is freely offered to all through Jesus, The Son of God. It's up to you to consider what is written in the Holy Bible where Jesus proclaimed:

"I Am The Way, The Truth and The Life, No Man Can Come Unto The Father Except By Me" (John 14:6)

well I can tell you that conformation is when the individual, for a lack of better terms, confirms his/her faith in the teaching of the church in question.
Now, if someone is say Jewish? and dies Jewish, then it is obvious that they could not have confirmed their faith in the teachings of any christian church. So a conformation in reality could not take place.
baptism? maybe. But 60 years after death? that might be stretching it a bit with the soul going to heaven timeline and such.

I dont get it

Still waiting to see if MMDad could give some insight as to what goes on in the "confirmation room" within the Mormon Temple ceremony of baptism for the dead. He says he has partaken of "proxy baptisms for the dead" at the Salt Lake City Temple.

Otherwise, it seems that a confirmation would have to be some kind of personal affirmation that the "baptism by proxy" was acceptably done on behalf of the dead person since the deceased individual would not be able to acknowledge that a baptism had been done on their behalf.

:shrug:

God, being Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent, resided spiritually within the person of Jesus while at the same time existing in His Divine Glory outside of man's knowledge of time/space dimension.

Jesus, as God/man, was then able to be like "one of us" yet He knew no sin like all of us.

IOW: God had to become part human in order to live a perfect human life - something none of us could ever do to prepare a perfect "Sacrificial Lamb". As "The Lamb of God," Jesus became the only acceptable Sacrifice that provides the power for God to forgive your sins and mine where we have transgressed against His laws.

It is through becoming like one of us that Jesus is The Son of God who was also able to feel the human pain, suffering, persecution and all the infirmities that face mankind and why He is able to Promise that one day all the pain and suffering and evil in this world will be done away with.

Ultimately, Jesus is God's way of doing what we couldn't do and that's "save ourselves" from the penalty of eternal death due to our sins and transgressions against the Laws of God. So, He had to do it for us - He took the rap on our behalf. Thus, God offers His Plan of Salvation to those who are covered by the Atoning Blood of the New Testament Jesus Christ.

One can choose to believe or not believe in God's Plan of Salvation that is freely offered to all through Jesus, The Son of God. It's up to you to consider what is written in the Holy Bible where Jesus proclaimed:

"I Am The Way, The Truth and The Life, No Man Can Come Unto The Father Except By Me" (John 14:6)
So again. God was Jesus, so he did not sacrifice his only son, he comitted "suicide by cop" to complete his own plan.

According to your interpretation god himself comitted the most egregious of sins... to fulfill His plan He knowingly had to commit suicide.

Still waiting to see if MMDad could give some insight as to what goes on in the "confirmation room" within the Mormon Temple ceremony of baptism for the dead. He says he has partaken of "proxy baptisms for the dead" at the Salt Lake City Temple.

Otherwise, it seems that a confirmation would have to be some kind of personal affirmation that the "baptism by proxy" was acceptably done on behalf of the dead person since the deceased individual would not be able to acknowledge that a baptism had been done on their behalf.

:shrug:

Google it, it's nothing perverse or Satanic.. and those that do proxy baptism understand that it's still the other person's choice to accept the baptism and receive the Holy Ghost...

Google it, it's nothing perverse or Satanic.. and those that do proxy baptism understand that it's still the other person's choice to accept the baptism and receive the Holy Ghost...

Aw maaan... I was hoping you would tell us in your own words and from your own experience. After you were baptized for the dead, MMDad, how was the baptism by proxy that you did "confirmed" ?

So again. God was Jesus, so he did not sacrifice his only son, he comitted "suicide by cop" to complete his own plan.

According to your interpretation god himself comitted the most egregious of sins... to fulfill His plan He knowingly had to commit suicide.

Jesus (God/man) did not commit suicide as much as you are trying to make this out to be. He gave His Life to save yours and that of anyone who will acknowledge that He took the rap for their sins and transgressions against God that has brought about the penalty that calls for eternal death.

Just as a faithul soldier who falls on a live grenade to save the lives of his friends is not committing suicide but giving his life so that his friends could live - That's what Jesus did.