As you know, I thought the Skins trade to get in position to select Robert Griffin was a towering mistake. If the goal is to build a legitimate perennial super bowl challenger, you simply can't gut the entire roster by trading away so much for one player. Not a Manning. Not an Elway. Even more absurd is the fact that lower tier guys DO make their teams good year after year; Bree's and Brady come readily to mind. In any event, the Skins, as they do, came up with a dumb idea and executed it. They now are on record as having traded the most value of all time to get Griffin who may well be great but, it is still a team sport. :shrug:

But, wait! There's more! The Redskins traded away the farm not for Griffin but, for the SECOND pick. There is much rumbling of late that the Colts are getting cold feet over Luck, they, the Colts, having traded NOTHING for the #1 pick.

Now, if you are the Colts, you can do anything. Pick Luck. Pick RGIII. Trade the pick to, say, the Dallas Cowboys. Or...

Trade the pick to the Washington Redskins.

Yes, boys and girls, why not? If the Skins want RGIII sooooooooo bad, why, why not let 'em prove it. The Skins do have a 3 and two 4's and a 5 and 6.
Why wouldn't you let them give you the 3 and a 4 to ensure they get their guy? I mean, if you're the Colts, you can still do whatever you want and, in all seriousness, at this point, RGIII, is looking more and more like a Super star. I mean, the Redskins think he's good enough to do it on his own. Maybe he is?

Maddening, isn't it?

They now are on record as having traded the most value of all time to get Griffin who may well be great but, it is still a team sport. :shrug:





Maddening, isn't it?

What's maddening is, that NObody in this area seems to remember Herschel Walker to the Vikings which led to.....anybody? Bueller? "Aikman, Irvin, Smith".
Nor do they remember one even more egregious. Ditka and the Saints giving up EVERY SINGLE PICK to get Ricky Williams and his wedding dress. How did THAT one work out? So......while the Redskins have given up a ridiculous amount for what (I'm betting) will be another busted choice, they are not anywhere near the insanity of Herschel or Ricky.

Not a sermon.......

#1 the Skins did not give up too much. You need a franchise QB to build a consistant winner.

#2 Luck and RGIII are both going to be great QBs and we should be fine with either one. I really do think that Indy will draft Luck.

That has to be one of the dumbest arguments I have heard about this whole thing. Why would the Colts trade away their to the Redskins in hopes of getting more? Why risk not getting the "safest QB since Manning" and taking a risk on someone that they think will be good. It wouldn't make any sense for the Redskins either. If RG3 falls to the Redskins then great. If Luck falls to the Redskins, then even better.

Griffin tells Colts “no” to private workout

Griffin tells Colts “no” to private workout | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/03/griffin-tells-colts-no-to-private-workout/)

It's NBC, so take it for what it's worth...:shrug:

#1 the Skins did not give up too much. You need a franchise QB to build a consistant winner.

#2 Luck and RGIII are both going to be great QBs and we should be fine with either one. I really do think that Indy will draft Luck.

How do you know? You don't.....I'm sure everyone thought JaMarcus Russel, Ryan Leaf, David Carr, Cade McNown, Joey Harington, Akili Smith, and Tim Couch were going to be the saviors of thier teams....

The Redskins have 0 ability to develop QB's.....you can even take a proven winning QB and turn them in to complete crap.

If you guys really wanted to do everyone a favor, you'd spare these two kids careers and draft some good linemen.

Your right. I don't know if RGIII will be a bust or one of the best. I just know that the Grossman/Beck route is done. We have some talent, especially on defense. Our offense has some flashes as well. It seemed that Grossman has a knack of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory as he went color blind at the worst times. This team was very untalented aside from a handful of players when Shanahan took over. He has let the under performers off the team and I think that had a really good draft that plugged some holes.

[/B]

How do you know? You don't.....I'm sure everyone thought JaMarcus Russel, Ryan Leaf, David Carr, Cade McNown, Joey Harington, Akili Smith, and Tim Couch were going to be the saviors of thier teams....

The Redskins have 0 ability to develop QB's.....you can even take a proven winning QB and turn them in to complete crap.

If you guys really wanted to do everyone a favor, you'd spare these two kids careers and draft some good linemen.

Sometimes you post as someone who may know sports...........this time not so much: Shanahan can't develop a QB? If your talking about McNabb, he was washed up when he got here and when he left, ask Viking fans how that worked out, we just took it in the ass again on signing him

Sometimes you post as someone who may know sports...........this time not so much: Shanahan can't develop a QB? If your talking about McNabb, he was washed up when he got here and when he left, ask Viking fans how that worked out, we just took it in the ass again on signing him

What QB did shanahan ever develop. I'll wait. The only time he ever was successful was in denver with a loaded offense. He developed nothing.

Sometimes you post as someone who may know sports...........this time not so much: Shanahan can't develop a QB? If your talking about McNabb, he was washed up when he got here and when he left, ask Viking fans how that worked out, we just took it in the ass again on signing him

McNabb is a bitter bitter man....

What QB did shanahan ever develop. I'll wait. The only time he ever was successful was in denver with a loaded offense. He developed nothing.

You can't make chicken salad outta chicken #### either. I can't say he "developed" a QB but he has made them winners, found this online. Not sure if his years in SF were with Young or not but it seems as he created systems to make them winners, is that developing a QB?


Career record 152-108-0 (Regular Season)
8-5 (Postseason)
160-113-0 (Overall)
Super Bowl wins 1998 Super Bowl XXXIII
1997 Super Bowl XXXII
1994 Super Bowl XXIX
(Offensive Coordinator)
Championships won 1998 AFC Championship
1997 AFC Championship
1994 NFC Championship
(Offensive Coordinator)
1987 AFC Championship
(Offensive Coordinator)
1986 AFC Championship
(Offensive Coordinator

You can't make chicken salad outta chicken #### either. I can't say he "developed" a QB but he has made them winners, found this online. Not sure if his years in SF were with Young or not but it seems as he created systems to make them winners, is that developing a QB?


Career record 152-108-0 (Regular Season)
8-5 (Postseason)
160-113-0 (Overall)
Super Bowl wins 1998 Super Bowl XXXIII
1997 Super Bowl XXXII
1994 Super Bowl XXIX
(Offensive Coordinator)
Championships won 1998 AFC Championship
1997 AFC Championship
1994 NFC Championship
(Offensive Coordinator)
1987 AFC Championship
(Offensive Coordinator)
1986 AFC Championship
(Offensive Coordinator

That's all with Epic QB's that he didn't develop....You and I could win with Montana, Young, and Elway. He went to the Raiders and had Bo Jackson and Marcus Allen and couldn't win!

That's all with Epic QB's that he didn't develop....You and I could win with Montana, Young, and Elway. He went to the Raiders and had Bo Jackson and Marcus Allen and couldn't win!

That's not so. There isn't a Super bowl winner, ever, that wasn't about team. Not the Pats or Indy or any Bart Star teams. Joe Namath had a solid defense and running game. Montana never won alone nor Marino, the greatest one man show in league history.

Elway made Denver a contender every year pretty much on his own but, they, like everyone else, didn't win it all until they had a solid d and a running game. And solid special teams never hurt anyone either.

So, if you or anyone else had Elway AND a defense AND a running game, then, year, we could win and that's the point; the Redskins defense is nothing special at this point and there is no O line to speak of. So, Shanahan has got three major things, four if you count special teams, that are needed for Griffin, or anyone else, to shine.

The deck is stacked against this, huge.

That has to be one of the dumbest arguments I have heard about this whole thing. Why would the Colts trade away their to the Redskins in hopes of getting more? Why risk not getting the "safest QB since Manning" and taking a risk on someone that they think will be good. It wouldn't make any sense for the Redskins either. If RG3 falls to the Redskins then great. If Luck falls to the Redskins, then even better.

It's only dumb if you think Luck is a lock. The entire point is the Colts, not me, the Colts, are showing interest in RGIII. Is it to extort the highly extort-able Redskins or, maybe, having had more time, they just ain't feeling it with Luck so much any more AND are really seeing the upside of Griffin.

So, you're argument is dumb.

Your right. I don't know if RGIII will be a bust or one of the best. I just know that the Grossman/Beck route is done. We have some talent, especially on defense. Our offense has some flashes as well. It seemed that Grossman has a knack of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory as he went color blind at the worst times. This team was very untalented aside from a handful of players when Shanahan took over. He has let the under performers off the team and I think that had a really good draft that plugged some holes.

Our offense has flashes of what?

Where is this talent on D? An unproven D lineman who had a major knee injury and hasn't played a snap in the NFL?

Orakpo has not moved to elite status and everyone knows they can run at him.

Kerrigan went down hill all season which is to be expected for a rookie but, he's no pro bowler yet.

We have ZERO skill people. Not one of our people, Davis, Moss, any RB's, start for a good offensive team.

Our leader, Fletcher, is being treated like chop live, arguing over a few bucks on a team that pisses millions away on all sorts of people who've done NOTHING for this club when he is the heart and soul.

And his replacement as team leader? Davis? Williams? I couple of stunningly selfish boys?

I think, in some ways, we are better than before Mike came to town. In some ways, nothing has changed and nothing proves that more than this idiotic trade for the #2 pick.

We are still 5-11. Two years running.


5-11

:buddies:

That's not so. There isn't a Super bowl winner, ever, that wasn't about team. Not the Pats or Indy or any Bart Star teams. Joe Namath had a solid defense and running game. Montana never won alone nor Marino, the greatest one man show in league history.

Elway made Denver a contender every year pretty much on his own but, they, like everyone else, didn't win it all until they had a solid d and a running game. And solid special teams never hurt anyone either.

So, if you or anyone else had Elway AND a defense AND a running game, then, year, we could win and that's the point; the Redskins defense is nothing special at this point and there is no O line to speak of. So, Shanahan has got three major things, four if you count special teams, that are needed for Griffin, or anyone else, to shine.

The deck is stacked against this, huge.

Thank you for calling me out on my redonkulousness.....my point was all too often around here, Shannahan gets grouped into the likes of a Bellichek, or Bill Walsh. He was a product of Walsh sure, but he was regurgatating (sp?) Walsh's WCO. Elway was already going to the HOF, it was right place right time.

I will give him credit for one thing. Whether it was him or an assitant, his teams found great RB's in the middle of the drafts in the mid to late 90s.

But we are talking about taking a rookie QB, and not the NFL groomed Luck, probably RGIII. I think he has the potential to be good, but alot of it really has to do with the coaches you have around you. Shannahan hasn't got that credibility, and his kid is a flat out joke.


Our offense has flashes of what?

Where is this talent on D? An unproven D lineman who had a major knee injury and hasn't played a snap in the NFL?

Orakpo has not moved to elite status and everyone knows they can run at him.

Kerrigan went down hill all season which is to be expected for a rookie but, he's no pro bowler yet.

We have ZERO skill people. Not one of our people, Davis, Moss, any RB's, start for a good offensive team.

Our leader, Fletcher, is being treated like chop live, arguing over a few bucks on a team that pisses millions away on all sorts of people who've done NOTHING for this club when he is the heart and soul.

And his replacement as team leader? Davis? Williams? I couple of stunningly selfish boys?

I think, in some ways, we are better than before Mike came to town. In some ways, nothing has changed and nothing proves that more than this idiotic trade for the #2 pick.

We are still 5-11. Two years running.


5-11

:buddies:

You are def one of the only Redskins fans I like....:buddies:

Thank you for calling me out on my redonkulousness.....my point was all too often around here, Shannahan gets grouped into the likes of a Bellichek, or Bill Walsh. He was a product of Walsh sure, but he was regurgatating (sp?) Walsh's WCO. Elway was already going to the HOF, it was right place right time.

I will give him credit for one thing. Whether it was him or an assitant, his teams found great RB's in the middle of the drafts in the mid to late 90s.

Well, it seems lots of people who were there, Young being primary, IIRC, that they DO credit him with helping them become a better QB. However, he didn't get Young as a rookie and I can't name anyone he has developed as a rookie. In any event, He was a good, solid coach but, his day is past and the Redskins are just not strong anywhere and that means enormous pressure on the kid be it Luck or Griffin.


But we are talking about taking a rookie QB, and not the NFL groomed Luck, probably RGIII. I think he has the potential to be good, but alot of it really has to do with the coaches you have around you. Shannahan hasn't got that credibility, and his kid is a flat out joke.

You are def one of the only Redskins fans I like....:buddies:

We, fans, judge everything in the harsh light of wins and losses which, for the most part, is fair enough. However, there are teams that are getting 'there' and there are teams just kinda spinning their wheels and there are teams on the decline. Rex has been to a SB. Going with him wasn't the worst idea of all time. That said, there sure seems to be scant evidence of what they EVER saw in Beck and McNabb was a classic Redskin stupid idea. If they, not Snyder, wanted him, man, not good.

:buddies:

There may be a few reasons not to draft a QB. There are 10x as many reasons not to, however.

If you covet a guy, grab him now or forever be run by Rex and the retreads.

To me, there is no other option. None. Zilch. Nothing. Not an inkling. Any other plausible football mind would agree and already has.

There may be a few reasons not to draft a QB. There are 10x as many reasons not to, however.

If you covet a guy, grab him now or forever be run by Rex and the retreads.

To me, there is no other option. None. Zilch. Nothing. Not an inkling. Any other plausible football mind would agree and already has.

It's not that I don't agree.....it's just I hate to see a kids career over before it begins..

There may be a few reasons not to draft a QB. There are 10x as many reasons not to, however.

If you covet a guy, grab him now or forever be run by Rex and the retreads.

To me, there is no other option. None. Zilch. Nothing. Not an inkling. Any other plausible football mind would agree and already has.

Plausible football mind. :lol:

I'll have to remember that one!

There may be a few reasons not to draft a QB. There are 10x as many reasons not to, however.

If you covet a guy, grab him now or forever be run by Rex and the retreads.

To me, there is no other option. None. Zilch. Nothing. Not an inkling. Any other plausible football mind would agree and already has.

You can put a new engine in a '74 Pinto but in the end, you still have a '74 Pinto. I totally agree that this is the time to step up and get a QB that may be able to be a cornerstone to a brighter future because all we've had was someone else's leftovers. Hopefully this is a new chapter in Redskin history that will look more like the '80s Skins and not the past 20 yrs of misery.

You can put a new engine in a '74 Pinto but in the end, you still have a '74 Pinto. I totally agree that this is the time to step up and get a QB that may be able to be a cornerstone to a brighter future because all we've had was someone else's leftovers. Hopefully this is a new chapter in Redskin history that will look more like the '80s Skins and not the past 20 yrs of misery.

Well said.. You also have to make sure the chasis isn't rusted out so that the engine spills out all over the highway leaking fluid everywhere!:killingme

You can put a new engine in a '74 Pinto but in the end, you still have a '74 Pinto. I totally agree that this is the time to step up and get a QB that may be able to be a cornerstone to a brighter future because all we've had was someone else's leftovers. Hopefully this is a new chapter in Redskin history that will look more like the '80s Skins and not the past 20 yrs of misery.

No one has traded away so much for one guy and done well. All sorts of teams have traded away one guy or one pick and cleaned up and built long term solid teams.

The idea is that we can, magically, get solid linemen and skill people with very few draft picks to use or trade when we could not do that when we had picks to use or trade and that magic is a rookie quarterback.

You can put a new engine in a '74 Pinto but in the end, you still have a '74 Pinto. I totally agree that this is the time to step up and get a QB that may be able to be a cornerstone to a brighter future because all we've had was someone else's leftovers. Hopefully this is a new chapter in Redskin history that will look more like the '80s Skins and not the past 20 yrs of misery.

like this?

No one has traded away so much for one guy and done well. All sorts of teams have traded away one guy or one pick and cleaned up and built long term solid teams.

The idea is that we can, magically, get solid linemen and skill people with very few draft picks to use or trade when we could not do that when we had picks to use or trade and that magic is a rookie quarterback.

I have to hope that whoever we pick as the future QB can survive until more talent can come to us; we will have to give up something in order to better ourselves and we don't have much that other teams want, maybe Orakpo or Kerrigan could draw favor but the rest, not so much.

I have to hope that whoever we pick as the future QB can survive until more talent can come to us; we will have to give up something in order to better ourselves and we don't have much that other teams want, maybe Orakpo or Kerrigan could draw favor but the rest, not so much.

We have a selfish pot head at left tackle and another dope is our best skill person. The rest of the O line is questionable at best as is the running game.

The heart and soul of the team, Fletcher, is being dicked around for a few bucks by a team that lavishes millions on people who've done nothing for the team. Orakpo is not an all pro. The D is middle of the road.

The weight on this kid will be enormous and it simply does not matter how good he is; it is a team game. Evfen Peyton, as close to a one man show as we've seen in some time, since Marino, had excellent skill people and a top notch O line and still needed some pro bowl defenders to win it all.

Recipe for disaster.

We have a selfish pot head at left tackle and another dope is our best skill person. The rest of the O line is questionable at best as is the running game.

The heart and soul of the team, Fletcher, is being dicked around for a few bucks by a team that lavishes millions on people who've done nothing for the team. Orakpo is not an all pro. The D is middle of the road.

The weight on this kid will be enormous and it simply does not matter how good he is; it is a team game. Evfen Peyton, as close to a one man show as we've seen in some time, since Marino, had excellent skill people and a top notch O line and still needed some pro bowl defenders to win it all.

Recipe for disaster.

I think it's safe to say, whomever goes 1 or 2, the weight on both will be alot to bare.

I think it's safe to say, whomever goes 1 or 2, the weight on both will be alot to bare.

That is true but, whomever Indy picks won't have the * next to them that says 'three #1's were traded for this guy RIGHT HERE"

Watch them pick RGIII. They've had time to think it over and explore some more. Griffin may have more upside for a rebuilding team. :shrug:

I think it's safe to say, whomever goes 1 or 2, the weight on both will be alot to bare.

No pressure, no diamonds.

No pressure, no diamonds.

Too much pressure; coal dust. :buddies:

That is true but, whomever Indy picks won't have the * next to them that says 'three #1's were traded for this guy RIGHT HERE"

Watch them pick RGIII. They've had time to think it over and explore some more. Griffin may have more upside for a rebuilding team. :shrug:

You are right, they will have the * Colts gave up the greatest QB of all time for this pick.

No pressure, no diamonds.

There's a difference of being a Top prospect coming into something resembling an offense, and having a savy veteran to teach you things....and coming into the Redskins and Sexy Rexy picking his nose and wiping it on the locker...

It's not that I don't agree.....it's just I hate to see a kids career over before it begins..

When you have statues as QBs (McNabb and Rex) you're going to have more hits than anyone else.

I like the Skins drafting a RT in the 3rd round. They have linemen who can get the job done. Depth at line is the problem and has been for years. Remember, quality linemen can be picked up beyond the first two rounds. Furthermore, in this particular scheme linemen are judged much differently.

You are right, they will have the * Colts gave up the greatest QB of all time for this pick.

..


Thing is, if they pick Luck, no pressure on him. He was supposed to be #1. If they pick RGIII, no pressure, the Colts had the first pick and could do as they please. If Luck falls to Skins, no pressure on Luck because he isn't what they traded for and if Griffin turns out better, the Colts were smart. If Luck is better, the Skins got Lucky.

If RGIII goes to the Skins as is, the weight of the NFL world is on him; unstable organization, absurd trade cost, the Shanahans in a must win now mode, team with LOTS of problems.

You are right, they will have the * Colts gave up the greatest QB of all time for this pick.



There's a difference of being a Top prospect coming into something resembling an offense, and having a savy veteran to teach you things....and coming into the Redskins and Sexy Rexy picking his nose and wiping it on the locker...

So they should have went after Manning?:lol:

Rex isn't the best ball handler but he's taken on the role as back-up, knows the team and system well.

Thing is, if they pick Luck, no pressure on him. He was supposed to be #1. If they pick RGIII, no pressure, the Colts had the first pick and could do as they please. If Luck falls to Skins, no pressure on Luck because he isn't what they traded for and if Griffin turns out better, the Colts were smart. If Luck is better, the Skins got Lucky.

If RGIII goes to the Skins as is, the weight of the NFL world is on him; unstable organization, absurd trade cost, the Shanahans in a must win now mode, team with LOTS of problems.

I disagree. Shanny was in a must now win mode but not any longer. This move buys him a few years.

Plausible football mind. :lol:

I'll have to remember that one!

:lmao:

Thing is, if they pick Luck, no pressure on him. He was supposed to be #1. If they pick RGIII, no pressure, the Colts had the first pick and could do as they please. If Luck falls to Skins, no pressure on Luck because he isn't what they traded for and if Griffin turns out better, the Colts were smart. If Luck is better, the Skins got Lucky.

If RGIII goes to the Skins as is, the weight of the NFL world is on him; unstable organization, absurd trade cost, the Shanahans in a must win now mode, team with LOTS of problems.

I think Luck is the one with the pressure. The Colts gave up Manning for him....they are resting the franchise on his arm.....the last person to have that pressure and live up to it was.........well, it was Manning.

RGIII isn't going to be expected to win, because he doesn't have the tools to do it.....he's a great athlete that makes a lot of throws, but he hasn't been touted as the next son of Zeus his entire career.

I like RGIII, he's impressed me with his interviews, and what I've seen out of him since the offseason started. The pressure around him has been caused by the Redskins, so they only have themselves to blame.

...so they only have themselves to blame.

Yeah, so? You think we'd let a little thing like ourselves stand in our way?


:lol:

I disagree. Shanny was in a must now win mode but not any longer. This move buys him a few years.

Really? So, 5-11 going to be OK again? And the year after? You think Griffin won't start next season? If he does, 5-11 will be a heck of an accomplishment.

Really? So, 5-11 going to be OK again? And the year after? You think Griffin won't start next season? If he does, 5-11 will be a heck of an accomplishment.
With the schedule next year, I would be surprised to see us win 6 or more games. I believe the Redskins believe they're in re-build mode now. When Shanny first arrived he thought he could turn the team around and win now. There has been a youth movement ever since McNabb and Haynesworthless were shipped out.

The old guard is gone or on the way out.

5-11 isn't OK, obviously. With a rookie QB and a team who shows potential and promise for the future, that could help things out for sure.

5-11 will be a heck of an accomplishment.

Cool.... Cowboys won't be at the bottom!! :yahoo:

Cool.... Cowboys won't be at the bottom!! :yahoo:

:shrug: Don't they still have Romo?

:shrug: Don't they still have Romo?Well, they do have Kyle Orton now.

With the schedule next year, I would be surprised to see us win 6 or more games. I believe the Redskins believe they're in re-build mode now. When Shanny first arrived he thought he could turn the team around and win now. There has been a youth movement ever since McNabb and Haynesworthless were shipped out.

The old guard is gone or on the way out.

5-11 isn't OK, obviously. With a rookie QB and a team who shows potential and promise for the future, that could help things out for sure.

I think we will be ok as long as we don't have O line injuries, depth is what got us last year....for the most part

Well, they do have Kyle Orton now.

They can play him in Dec.......when a loss will send you home

With the schedule next year, I would be surprised to see us win 6 or more games. I believe the Redskins believe they're in re-build mode now. When Shanny first arrived he thought he could turn the team around and win now. There has been a youth movement ever since McNabb and Haynesworthless were shipped out.

The old guard is gone or on the way out.

5-11 isn't OK, obviously. With a rookie QB and a team who shows potential and promise for the future, that could help things out for sure.

Ok, if we are rebuilding, why not rebuild??? New, young coach, a hot shot O coordinator that is in the game now and knows where everything is trending. Preferably not one with the last name that starts with an S.

Trade Williams and Davis and Landry and Moss for picks, let London go play his last years for a winner, let Griffin come in with a clean slate and be the leader by default.

All this feels like is the same old same old fence straddling going in three or four directions at once.

Ok, if we are rebuilding, why not rebuild??? New, young coach, a hot shot O coordinator that is in the game now and knows where everything is trending. Preferably not one with the last name that starts with an S.

Trade Williams and Davis and Landry and Moss for picks, let London go play his last years for a winner, let Griffin come in with a clean slate and be the leader by default.

All this feels like is the same old same old fence straddling going in three or four directions at once.

It's because you can't do all that. Vinny is gone but his carcass still stinks up the building. During his tenure the Redskins were the oldest team in the league many years running. They've been trending the other way slightly the last few years.

You can't trade Landry because he's a free-agent and now a JET. You wouldn't have gotten anything for him if you could.

You wouldn't get much of anything for an aging Cooley or a Moss on his last leg. Many are questioning whether Moss will even be on the roster with the additions of the other WR's this off-season. I would prefer to keep him for a few more years as a slot guy.

Giving up on Williams and Davis for making a "youth" mistake is just dumb. Those are perhaps your greatest assets now. Davis is a true play-maker and will shine. Before his suspension, Williams was dominant, especially in his last four games. RGIII will need Williams. This line will need a leader, which I believe Williams will grow into. It'll take some time, however as he's not the most apt individual. Of course, corn-fed football boys aren't usually.:lol:

The team defense and the team in general is vastly different without London Fletcher. He wanted to stay and the team wanted him to stay. They worked out a deal despite the leagues fines. You can't get rid of Fletch, not now at least.

So, while you want to get younger, you still have to be competitive. You have to tread water in this league at times to grow anywhere. You can't just throw guys into the fire consistently and hope for the best.

Giving up on Williams and Davis for making a "youth" mistake is just dumb. Those are perhaps your greatest assets now. .

Anyone with a plausible football :evil: mind knows that 'youth mistakes' of getting caught in a business where the average career is 4 years and the rules, and how to get around them, from dope to PED's, knows both these guys are lost causes. That they are our 'greatest' assets only makes it that much worse. A joint away from a year? Come on. You don't build around that. You just don't. They are pot heads and that's not unusual in pro sports. Getting caught for it in the NFL...

...that's dumb.

Every single person on that team now knows you get a free pass for a major #### up. These guys are not leaders yet that's their role. They're not even adults.

You can't trade Landry because he's a free-agent and now a JET. You wouldn't have gotten anything for him if you could. I knew that but, I think I was calling for trading him last year while there was still value.

You wouldn't get much of anything for an aging Cooley or a Moss on his last leg. Many are questioning whether Moss will even be on the roster with the additions of the other WR's this off-season. I would prefer to keep him for a few more years as a slot guy. .

Moss is another bad leader type. He blows his cool at bad moments, always has. This teams heart and soul is Fletcher and then...who? Not Moss.

So, while you want to get younger, you still have to be competitive. You have to tread water in this league at times to grow anywhere. You can't just throw guys into the fire consistently and hope for the best.

:tap:

EVERYONE is competitive. The 0-16 lions of a few years ago were competitive coming close a bunch of games. Look at them now. They cleaned house, stocked up on picks, got their QB without giving away the farm and they are solid across the board and all those young guys are LIONS, not hired hands.

You mentioned the ghost of Vinny and that's what I thought we'd gotten away from the last two years; building picks, no huge, splashy deals. I felt the air come out of the ball with the RGIII trade. It's putting all the eggs in one basket all over again and ruining the balance of the team. You gotta love getting a guy like that but, at that price?

Your view is you sell the farm for that. Mine is you have no farm when you sell the farm.

:buddies:

No one has traded away so much for one guy and done well. All sorts of teams have traded away one guy or one pick and cleaned up and built long term solid teams.

The idea is that we can, magically, get solid linemen and skill people with very few draft picks to use or trade when we could not do that when we had picks to use or trade and that magic is a rookie quarterback.

No? Don't remember '04?

I'll help...

04: New York Giants traded 2004 1st (which was the #4...), 2005 1st, 2004 3rd and 2005 5th. So, four picks for the #1.

12: Redskins trade 2012 1st (which is the #6), 2013 & 2014 1st, plus the second round pick for this year.

I don't really think they gave up too much if they feel he's going to be a franchise quarterback for years to come. What other quarterback was available that you felt would be competitive for ten years? Manning? Weeden? Tannehill? Not even close. Even if Luck falls to them, is that really a bad compensatory pick for trading what they did? They traded what they did because it was a win-win no matter what. It's like spending $10 on a $600 million mega-millions ticket and winning. Sure, you spent $10, but in the long run your investment increases by millions. It's a chance. Every first round pick in the draft is just that, a chance. The notion that this is "the same old Redskins" is ridiculous. The "same old Redskins" would have traded for Peyton Manning before he was released for more than what they got the #2 for, plus picked up his roster bonus and the majority of his salary, and probably sign him to a $110 million extension. If they want to acquire more draft picks, they can certainly trade down with some of their picks, or trade their heavy WR corps. Santana Moss might be on the downslide, but trust me, there's a team somewhere in need of either a slot receiver or a receiver to take pressure off of a #2 or #3.

I'm a Colts fan, and Irsay is certainly blowing smoke up everyone's ass when he says he hasn't decided on a pick. He and Pagano both know Luck is the pick they want. Irsay had a big PR no-no when he let Manning go, and he has no choice but to draft Luck, since he has played him up as the next best thing to Peyton.

Oh yeah, that draft pick I was talking about in 04? Eli Manning. Ask the Giants fans if they feel they gave up "too much" for a franchise quarterback.

Anyone with a plausible football :evil: mind knows that 'youth mistakes' of getting caught in a business where the average career is 4 years and the rules, and how to get around them, from dope to PED's, knows both these guys are lost causes. That they are our 'greatest' assets only makes it that much worse. A joint away from a year? Come on. You don't build around that. You just don't. They are pot heads and that's not unusual in pro sports. Getting caught for it in the NFL...

...that's dumb.

Every single person on that team now knows you get a free pass for a major #### up. These guys are not leaders yet that's their role. They're not even adults.
Welcome to today's NFL...much like the NBA.

:tap:

EVERYONE is competitive. The 0-16 lions of a few years ago were competitive coming close a bunch of games. Look at them now. They cleaned house, stocked up on picks, got their QB without giving away the farm and they are solid across the board and all those young guys are LIONS, not hired hands.

You mentioned the ghost of Vinny and that's what I thought we'd gotten away from the last two years; building picks, no huge, splashy deals. I felt the air come out of the ball with the RGIII trade. It's putting all the eggs in one basket all over again and ruining the balance of the team. You gotta love getting a guy like that but, at that price?

Your view is you sell the farm for that. Mine is you have no farm when you sell the farm.


:buddies:The Lions were the oldest team in the NFL last year.

2011 NFL age ranks: Calling all graybeards - NFC West Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/43768/2011-nfl-age-ranks-calling-all-graybeards)

They also just had several arrests recently.

There is no price high enough when it comes down to winning football games.

The Lions were the oldest team in the NFL last year.

2011 NFL age ranks: Calling all graybeards - NFC West Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/43768/2011-nfl-age-ranks-calling-all-graybeards)

They also just had several arrests recently.

There is no price high enough when it comes down to winning football games.

Really? Hmm...so much for my plausibility! :stupid:

:lol:

"Twas the Night Before Griffmas" (http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?364801-quot-Twas-the-Night-Before-Griffmas-quot)

"Twas the Night Before Griffmas" (http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?364801-quot-Twas-the-Night-Before-Griffmas-quot)

And it didn't take long for them to try to cash in on it:

.....2012 NFL Draft at RedskinsTeamStore.com (http://store.redskins.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=629&utm_source=homesite&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=draft+night)

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

And it didn't take long for them to try to cash in on it:

.....2012 NFL Draft at RedskinsTeamStore.com (http://store.redskins.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=629&utm_source=homesite&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=draft+night)

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
:lol:

Sold!

:lol: