A very good piece by well known Bible teacher and pastor John MacArthur.

Why I am a Calvinist, by John MacArthur

Why I Am a Calvinist, Part 1 (http://www.gty.org/resources/articles/10194)

Part I: Is Arminianism damnable heresy?

I love the doctrines of grace and don’t shy away from the label “Calvinist.” I believe in the sovereignty of God. I’m convinced Scripture teaches that God is completely sovereign not only in salvation (effectually calling and granting faith to those whom He chooses); but also in every detail of the outworking of Providence. “Whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified” (Romans 8:30). And He makes “all things work together for good to those who love God, [i.e.,] to those who are the called according to His purpose” (Romans 8:28). Quite simply, He “works all things according to the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).

That’s what people commonly mean when they speak of “Calvinism.” When I accept that label, I am not pledging allegiance to the man John Calvin. I am not affirming everything he taught, and I’m not condoning everything he did. I’m convinced Calvin was a godly man and one of the finest biblical expositors and theological minds ever, but he wasn’t always right. As a matter of fact, my own convictions are baptistic, so I am by no means one of Calvin’s devoted followers. In other words, when I accept the label “Calvinist,” it’s only for convenience’s sake. I’m not saying “I am of Calvin” in the Corinthian sense.

Furthermore, I’m not one of those who wears Calvinism like a big chip on his shoulder, daring people to fight with me about it. It’s true that I can get feisty about certain points of doctrine—especially when someone attacks a principle that goes to the heart of the gospel, like substitutionary atonement, or original sin, or justification by faith and the principle of imputed righteousness. When one of those principles is challenged, I’m ready to fight. (And I also don’t mind beating up on whatever happens to be the latest evangelical fad.)

The rest of the article is available at the link.

I am not of Calvin or Luthor or Peter or Paul. I am a follower of Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:10-17

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

10 Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one would say you were baptized in my name. 16 Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

I am not of Calvin or Luthor or Peter or Paul. I am a follower of Christ.

Why then, do most non-denominationals, quote Paul, rather than Jesus?
Scripture is full of quotes from Jesus, but Paul seems to be quoted more often.

Just asking?

BTW, I think Calvin also had many good ideas, not all good , but many.

A very good piece by well known Bible teacher and pastor John MacArthur...
I agree with 2A: Christ before Calvin. Calvin came around in the 16th century and his concepts don't square with Scripture.

MacArthur is good but he also believes in a pre trib rapture, so...

I'm wondering if some folks didn't even read to the second paragraph?

Of course we follow Christ.

To Bird Dog's question though, aren't Paul's writings just as much inspired as the Gospels?

I agree with 2A: Christ before Calvin. Calvin came around in the 16th century and his concepts don't square with Scripture.I think it's pretty obvious he would have felt the exact same way about you.


MacArthur is good but he also believes in a pre trib rapture, so...I know. I never understood that one about him. I guess he must follow another Jesus.

I'm wondering if some folks didn't even read to the second paragraph?

Preposterous!!! You mean, read the whole thing and actually try to see where you're coming from? Do people really do that anymore?? That's just silly. :whack:

I'm wondering if some folks didn't even read to the second paragraph?

Of course we follow Christ.

To Bird Dog's question though, aren't Paul's writings just as much inspired as the Gospels?

I never said you didn't. My comment was aimed at the understanding that the church has been dealing with people choosing to follow one person or another when the teaching and understanding of a person is flawed no matter how good.

I think it's pretty obvious he would have felt the exact same way about you.
And I'd argue with him just as I do with you.

I know. I never understood that one about him. I guess he must follow another Jesus.
Now you're turning into a drama king. No one here said anything about you not being a Christian. :duh:

Re: John Calvin

(article excerpts)


John Calvin had no love, compassion, patience or tolerance for those who did not believe his Institutes. Criticism of Calvin's Institutes was considered heresy for which the sentence was death by burning at the stake. ..

John Calvin's murder of people who held different doctrinal views, his failure to acknowledge or repent from his sins, his incomplete gospel, his placing of his own writings above the Bible, his distortion of God and the Scriptures, and his dependence upon infant baptism places into question his salvation. In all of his writings is not found a clear declaration of his salvation by faith in the birth, life, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. Calvin was a cruel, murderous tyrant who considered himself to be the pope of Geneva.

The Bible never advocates harming an individual due to his unbelief or lack of understanding. Jesus taught to "turn the other cheek" instead. None of the Apostles taught action against unbelievers but instead taught the believer to seek them out and present the gospel in love.

Scripture Proves John Calvin Taught False Doctrines

John Calvin falsely taught that God draws only those to Himself whom He elects to be saved. Calvin taught that those chosen could not resist the call. According to John Calvin a person is elected by God, saved by God's grace and given faith to believe as the final step. Calvin taught that this series of actions by Jesus Christ and God cannot be resisted by the elected person. On the other hand, Calvin taught that most people were not drawn by Jesus. Calvin taught that those not drawn by Jesus could not believe and could not be saved no matter what they did. Calvinists must twist Scripture, ignore the clear message given, and literally butcher the text in order to keep John Calvin's chain of false doctrines from total collapse. Jesus clearly and directly spoke doctrines that refute these false doctrines of John Calvin.

John 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all [peoples] to Myself."

1 Timothy 2:3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Jesus does draw all people to Himself. Jesus said He will draw all people unto Himself if He were to be lifted up and crucified. God desires all mankind to be saved, but most people resist being drawn. John Calvin's doctrine of "Irresistible Grace" is clearly shown to be incorrect by Jesus' clear declaration.

We believe that salvation is by grace through faith based upon the redemptive work of our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus took upon Himself the sins of all mankind by His death on the cross, and His resurrection from the dead provides salvation to all who believe. All who receive the Lord Jesus Christ through faith are born again of the Holy Spirit and thereby become the children of God.

Calvinism False Doctrines, Depravity, Election, Atonement, Irresistible Grace. (http://www.biblelife.org/calvinism.htm)

Now you're turning into a drama king. No one here said anything about you not being a Christian.Psst, see post 10. Few things in this world are reliable, but Star telling most people they are following a false Jesus is one steadfast thing.

I don't worry much about labels, and so the fact that a lot of what I believe seems to agree with Calvin's beliefs is interesting to know but not important to me. I didn't study in a Seminary. I've been familiar with the Scriptures from a very young age, been a believer for as long as I remember, and have thus been inclined to recognize God's influence and intervention in my day-to-day life. It's the latter that has convinced me that He has a fantastic and intricate plan involving all of us and the way we interact as He has planned it. In areas where I'm mistaken, I'm sure He will set me straight, and I can't wait to learn the details about which we are prone to guess.

Psst, see post 10. Few things in this world are reliable, but Star telling most people they are following a false Jesus is one steadfast thing.
I know how to get him to stop posting that..........Everyone start believing in the correct One. :yay: :buddies:

This time from the Christian Research Institute, the ministry organization of "Bible Answer-Man" Hank Hanegraaff.

Why I Am a Calvinist | CRI (http://www.equip.org/articles/why-i-am-a-calvinist/)

Why I Am a Calvinist

Article ID: JAVP3231

By: Kevin DeYoung

Here are the two most important things you need to know about the rise of the New Calvinism: it’s not new and it’s not about Calvin. Of course, some of the conferences are new. The John Piper–packed iPods are new. The neo-reformed blog blitz is new. The ideas, however, are not. “Please God, don’t let the young, restless, and reformed movement be another historically ignorant, self-absorbed, cooler-than-thou fad.”

And while I’m praying: “Please God, don’t let the New Calvinism ever, ever be about the New Calvinism.” Don’t get me wrong. I’m not afraid to be called a Calvinist. I’ve read the Institutes multiple times, most of Calvin’s commentaries, and was voted “Calvin Clone” by my peers at seminary. I thank God for Calvin. But if the New Calvinism is to continue as a work of God, which I think it has been, it must continue to be about God. Young Christians have been drawn to Calvinism not because they were looking for Calvin or an “ism,” but because they were drawn to a vision of a massive, glorious, fall-down-before-Him-as-though-dead kind of God who loves us because He wants to.

The influence of Calvinism is growing because its God is transcendent and its theology is true. In a day when “be better” moralism passes for preaching, self-help banality passes for counseling, and “Jesus is my boyfriend” music passes for worship in some churches, more and more people are finding comfort in a God who is anything but comfortable. The paradox of Calvinism is that we feel better by feeling worse about ourselves, we do more for God by seeing how He’s done everything for us, and we give love away more freely when we discover that we have been saved by free grace.

Full article at link

Simply, Hank Hannegraff follows John Calvin, a persecutor and murderer of those who did not agree with him. As the saying goes, " by their fruits..."

Simply, Hank Hannegraff follows John Calvin, a persecutor and murderer of those who did not agree with him. As the saying goes, " by their fruits..."Are you adding him to your heretic list?

Are you adding him to your heretic list?

Maybe the "misguided" list. :popcorn:

I was unaware that people would label me a Calvinist for my beliefs until I had believed such for years. I was surprised when I was told I was a Calvinist and had to go look it up after the conversation was over. In my case the beliefs came before the label and stigma (if you could call it that) were revealed to me. The evidence in my own life to support what I believe is all there - the evidence is what led me to the beliefs. Adolf Hitler claimed to be a Christian, and we know what HIS fruits were. So, perhaps I should say that Calvin gave Calvinists a bad name? Anyway, I don't have any strategy to defend anything; that's up to God.

So if I belong on your misguided list, so be it. I haven't similarly judged you.

I was unaware that people would label me a Calvinist for my beliefs until I had believed such for years. I was surprised when I was told I was a Calvinist and had to go look it up after the conversation was over. In my case the beliefs came before the label and stigma (if you could call it that) were revealed to me. The evidence in my own life to support what I believe is all there - the evidence is what led me to the beliefs. Adolf Hitler claimed to be a Christian, and we know what HIS fruits were. So, perhaps I should say that Calvin gave Calvinists a bad name? Anyway, I don't have any strategy to defend anything; that's up to God.

So if I belong on your misguided list, so be it. I haven't similarly judged you.
Very similar to my own journey. As a young "milk" Christian, I really didn't have a theological system, but the more I studied the scripture the more I discovered what I believe now. It would be a lie to say I wasn't influenced by men such as Alistair Begg, CH Spurgeon, and John Piper. But I also learned a lot from other men whom I don't agree so much with. I didn't actually know anything about John Calvin (besides HS world history class) until much later.

I was unaware that people would label me a Calvinist for my beliefs until I had believed such for years. I was surprised when I was told I was a Calvinist and had to go look it up after the conversation was over. In my case the beliefs came before the label and stigma (if you could call it that) were revealed to me. The evidence in my own life to support what I believe is all there - the evidence is what led me to the beliefs. Adolf Hitler claimed to be a Christian, and we know what HIS fruits were. So, perhaps I should say that Calvin gave Calvinists a bad name? Anyway, I don't have any strategy to defend anything; that's up to God.

So if I belong on your misguided list, so be it. I haven't similarly judged you.

Yo Railroad! I personally believe that Calvinism negates the Gospel Message of Christ (John 3:16-18) and many others where Scripture mentions that people are called to repentance and to believe upon the Name of God's Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ for the Salvation of their soul.

I personally believe that Calvinism negates Scriptures where Jesus said that He came to save sinners of which all mankind are and that He will not turn anyone away if they call upon His Name.

Words need not be said since, in your personal view, that would make me be "misguided" because I don't agree with the Calvinist teaching that God has predestined souls to Heaven or Hell through His Choice.

One thing is for sure, if I was living in the day of John Calvin and boldly expressed my oppostion to his teaching (as I do here) you can bet he would be gathering some green wood and matches to have me burned at the stake. Would you and Zguy28 help him light the fire?

I'm a pre-trib'er and not a Calvinist so I guess I have nothing to contribute here.....

Yo Railroad! I personally believe that Calvinism negates the Gospel Message of Christ (John 3:16-18) and many others where Scripture mentions that people are called to repentance and to believe upon the Name of God's Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ for the Salvation of their soul.

I personally believe that Calvinism negates Scriptures where Jesus said that He came to save sinners of which all mankind are and that He will not turn anyone away if they call upon His Name.

Words need not be said since, in your personal view, that would make me be "misguided" because I don't agree with the Calvinist teaching that God has predestined souls to Heaven or Hell through His Choice.

One thing is for sure, if I was living in the day of John Calvin and boldly expressed my oppostion to his teaching (as I do here) you can bet he would be gathering some green wood and matches to have me burned at the stake. Would you and Zguy28 help him light the fire?

Nope. Your personal beliefs are between you and God, and it's not my place to judge you in any way. By the way, if Calvin was the fellow he has been described as, I'd have nothing to do with him; he'd be a poisonous man regardless of his professed beliefs. I separate the beliefs from the person. My relationship with the Lord has grown and continues to grow, partly because every time I see His hand at work (and that's pretty frequently), I praise Him. The communication is cool, because He has used silent and very eloquent and powerful expressions of His thoughts, and sometimes there's no doubt it's in response to my prayer. I have no doubt that He knows where my knowledge and ideas are flawed, but He hasn't rejected me because of it, and so I believe that we who know Him and believe in Jesus will spend eternity in heaven - spending a bit of that time laughing about our crazy ideas and mistakes of this life.

Nope. Your personal beliefs are between you and God, and it's not my place to judge you in any way. By the way, if Calvin was the fellow he has been described as, I'd have nothing to do with him; he'd be a poisonous man regardless of his professed beliefs. I separate the beliefs from the person. My relationship with the Lord has grown and continues to grow, partly because every time I see His hand at work (and that's pretty frequently), I praise Him. The communication is cool, because He has used silent and very eloquent and powerful expressions of His thoughts, and sometimes there's no doubt it's in response to my prayer. I have no doubt that He knows where my knowledge and ideas are flawed, but He hasn't rejected me because of it, and so I believe that we who know Him and believe in Jesus will spend eternity in heaven - spending a bit of that time laughing about our crazy ideas and mistakes of this life.

Thank you for your sincere response Railroad. Good answer. :yay:

Indeed, John Calvin was "the fellow" he has been described to be by the historical accounts of his actions. If you were never aware of this, perhaps it was time that this was to have been revealed to you and many others who were never informed.

Indeed, John Calvin was "the fellow" he has been described to be by the historical accounts of his actions. If you were never aware of this, perhaps it was time that this was to have been revealed to you and many others who were never informed.

:lol: Of COURSE it was time! All part of the plan. :huggy:

:lol: Of COURSE it was time! All part of the plan. :huggy:

Amen! :huggy:

The True God of the Bible will never lead you astray; man will.

Why then, do most non-denominationals, quote Paul, rather than Jesus?
Scripture is full of quotes from Jesus, but Paul seems to be quoted more often.

Just asking?

BTW, I think Calvin also had many good ideas, not all good , but many.

Guessing Paul is quoted more, because he wrote two thirds of the New Testament and for no other reason and since his word is inspired its actually Gods word no matter if it was Paul or Jesus that said it.

I never said you didn't. My comment was aimed at the understanding that the church has been dealing with people choosing to follow one person or another when the teaching and understanding of a person is flawed no matter how good.

I dont think its a matter of following. The main line denominations fall into one or the other camp based on their stated beliefs. You either believe in the doctrines of grace or you dont. Now churches try to hide it, but if you look at their orgins you can see what they are. As for Bible Churches they can fall in either camp depending on their doctrinal statement or what the current pastor teaches. :-(

Re: John Calvin

(article excerpts)

I can find an article that says Obama is a Christain, but that doesnt make it true!

I personally believe that Calvinism negates Scriptures where Jesus said that He came to save sinners of which all mankind are and that He will not turn anyone away if they call upon His Name.



So what do you do with Many are called but few are chosen?
Matthew 22:14

Or many will Say Lord Lord
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
Matthew 7:22

What then? That which Israel seeketh for, that he obtained not; but the election obtained it, and the rest were hardened:
Romans 11:7

God even said he hardened his chosen peoples hearts till the full number of gentiles is reached.


Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10

So what do you do with Many are called but few are chosen?
Matthew 22:14

Or many will Say Lord Lord
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
Matthew 7:22

What then? That which Israel seeketh for, that he obtained not; but the election obtained it, and the rest were hardened:
Romans 11:7

God even said he hardened his chosen peoples hearts till the full number of gentiles is reached.


Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10

It's not what I will do with them; it is what God will do with them for their following other "gospels" and "other christs" and not believing God's Message that would bring them to repentance and the Salvation He had offered through His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, as stated in the Holy Bible.