A Defense of Calvinism by Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-92) known as the "Prince of Preachers"

A Defense of Calvinism (http://www.spurgeon.org/calvinis.htm)

Snippets

"The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon

I do not think I differ from any of my Hyper-Calvinistic brethren in what I do believe, but I differ from them in what they do not believe. I do not hold any less than they do, but I hold a little more, and, I think, a little more of the truth revealed in the Scriptures. Not only are there a few cardinal doctrines, by which we can steer our ship North, South, East, or West, but as we study the Word, we shall begin to learn something about the North-west and North-east, and all else that lies between the four cardinal points. The system of truth revealed in the Scriptures is not simply one straight line, but two; and no man will ever get a right view of the gospel until he knows how to look at the two lines at once. For instance, I read in one Book of the Bible, "The Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." Yet I am taught, in another part of the same inspired Word, that "it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy." I see, in one place, God in providence presiding over all, and yet I see, and I cannot help seeing, that man acts as he pleases, and that God has left his actions, in a great measure, to his own free-will. Now, if I were to declare that man was so free to act that there was no control of God over his actions, I should be driven very near to atheism; and if, on the other hand, I should declare that God so over-rules all things that man is not free enough to be responsible, I should be driven at once into Antinomianism or fatalism. That God predestines, and yet that man is responsible, are two facts that few can see clearly. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory to each other. If, then, I find taught in one part of the Bible that everything is fore-ordained, that is true; and if I find, in another Scripture, that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is only my folly that leads me to imagine that these two truths can ever contradict each other. I do not believe they can ever be welded into one upon any earthly anvil, but they certainly shall be one in eternity. They are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the human mind which pursues them farthest will never discover that they converge, but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring.

Calvinism is playing the part of the "Devil's Advocate" by blaming God for predestining souls to Hell rather than blaming Satan, the culprit who deceives people through false teachings.


But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
(2 Corinthians 11:3)




But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (2 Corinthians 4:3-6)


People Have A Choice:


He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. (John 3:18-20)

Calvinism is playing the part of the "Devil's Advocate" by blaming God for predestining souls to Hell rather than blaming Satan, the culprit who deceives people through false teachings.
In your zeal to demolish Calvinism you proof texted 2 Corinthians 11:3 That passage is in reference to the Corinthian church, which obviously knew the "simplicity that is in Christ".

You just said believers can be sent to Hell for being deceived by Satan. :howdy:

People have a choiceOnly so far as it pertains to their nature. They cannot choose against their nature, which is enslaved to sin by default. Those enslaved to sin also cannot understand spiritual matters e.g. the bible. They must be quickened by the Spirit aka a recipient of grace.

What is compatibilist free will? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry (http://carm.org/questions-compatibilist-free-will)

In your zeal to demolish Calvinism you proof texted 2 Corinthians 11:3 That passage is in reference to the Corinthian church, which obviously knew the "simplicity that is in Christ".
And "in your zeal" you bring out yet another name to "intervene" for the (already established) truth of the Bible. Nice to see that a self professed (forumite) unbeliever agrees with you on here. No red flag Zguy? There should be...

They cannot choose against their nature, which is enslaved to sin by default. Those enslaved to sin also cannot understand spiritual matters e.g. the bible. They must be quickened by the Spirit aka a recipient of grace.
"Quickened"? Nice ancient word that most on here do not understand.

So: "those enslaved to sin cannot understand spiritual matters" and they must be "quickened" by the Spirit. Ok then; what happens if they don't want to be "quickened"?

Nice to see that a self professed (forumite) unbeliever agrees with you on here. No red flag Zguy? There should be...:rolleyes: Before he edited it he said SM was slipping, and I like most times someone tries to make SM wake up, futile though it is.

:rolleyes: Before he edited it he said SM was slipping, and I like most times someone tries to make SM wake up, futile though it is.
Sorry, I thought it sounded rude and mocking so I repented to God and removed it. I was hoping nobody saw it. But yes, I did write that.

Sorry, I thought it sounded rude and mocking so I repented to God and removed it. I was hoping nobody saw it. But yes, I did write that.Good thing, too, lest one of us heathens agree with you. :lol:

And "in your zeal" you bring out yet another name to "intervene" for the (already established) truth of the Bible. Nice to see that a self professed (forumite) unbeliever agrees with you on here. No red flag Zguy? There should be...Nobody "intervening." I just realize that I'm not the only one in the whole wide world of creation whom the Holy Spirit illuminates to understand Scripture. That, and I'm not arrogant enough to think I'm infallible in interpretation of Scripture, especially when it comes to doctrines such as Election.

"Quickened"? Nice ancient word that most on here do not understand. Means "made alive". Take note.


So: "those enslaved to sin cannot understand spiritual matters" and they must be "quickened" by the Spirit. Ok then; what happens if they don't want to be "quickened"?Read the piece by C.H. Spurgeon I posted at the beginning of this thread. It has the answer.

I want to invite you to another site, a bigger pond, with bigger fish. Come on if you think you are right. There are lots of Christians of all flavors out there for you to admonish and correct. :buddies:

TheologyWeb Campus (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/forum.php)

Good thing, too, lest one of us heathens agree with you. :lol:
:killingme

Nobody "intervening." I just realize that I'm not the only one in the whole wide world of creation whom the Holy Spirit illuminates to understand Scripture. That, and I'm not arrogant enough to think I'm infallible in interpretation of Scripture, especially when it comes to doctrines such as Election.
That's good to hear.

I want to invite you to another site, a bigger pond, with bigger fish. Come on if you think you are right. There are lots of Christians of all flavors out there for you to admonish and correct. :buddies:
No thanks; I have my hands full right here...

In your zeal to demolish Calvinism you proof texted 2 Corinthians 11:3 That passage is in reference to the Corinthian church, which obviously knew the "simplicity that is in Christ".

You just said believers can be sent to Hell for being deceived by Satan. :howdy:


Not so fast Zguy! Why would Paul be giving such a warning to the Church at Corinth? Perhaps not all were fully committed in their faith yet in that the church was in its young stage and people were still vulnerable to being swayed by subtle yet false teachings.
The context of that portion of Scripture was that the people could easily end up following "another Jesus" and another gospel that was different from the Gospel Message of Christ being preached by the Apostles:


But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (2 Corinthians 11:3-4)

Same as other rebukes and warnings made by Paul, i.e.


O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? (Galatians 3:1-3)


Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
(Colossians 2:8)

Even at the time of the early church, apostasy was beginning and it is still going on in full force in today's churches. People following the teachings of men rather than placing themselves under the anointed guidance of the Holy Spirit of God who Jesus sent to lead His followers into His Truth.


But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
(1 John 2:27)

And "in your zeal" you bring out yet another name to "intervene" for the (already established) truth of the Bible. Nice to see that a self professed (forumite) unbeliever agrees with you on here. No red flag Zguy? There should be...

"Quickened"? Nice ancient word that most on here do not understand.

So: "those enslaved to sin cannot understand spiritual matters" and they must be "quickened" by the Spirit. Ok then; what happens if they don't want to be "quickened"?

They spend Sunday morning at Red Robin rather than being fed by Gods word :-)

They remain spiriturally blind, they can understand the english sentances, but the word dosent speak to them.

They spend Sunday morning at Red Robin rather than being fed by Gods word :-)

They remain spiriturally blind, they can understand the english sentances, but the word dosent speak to them.Or in the case of Spurgeon, God's grace continued to work on him until he turned to Christ.

Or in the case of Spurgeon, God's grace continued to work on him until he turned to Christ.

Wow that sounds irresistible.

They spend Sunday morning at Red Robin rather than being fed by Gods word :-)
They remain spiriturally blind, they can understand the english sentances, but the word dosent speak to them.
First, before you point your finger, you need to learn how to spell. If your knowledge of God is anything like your spelling, you should leave church and find someone who can teach you truth w/o legalism.

You have no idea what I've done or how much I've been fed. Anytime you want to do a one on one to see what you know vs what I know, come on by one Sunday; I guarantee your church won't miss you. Just because YOU can't function w/o playing church and cannot see past your legalism, doesn't mean the rest of us need church as a crutch. I've learned more outside of church than I ever will inside.

First, before you point your finger, you need to learn how to spell. If your knowledge of God is anything like your spelling, you should leave church and find someone who can teach you truth w/o legalism.

You have no idea what I've done or how much I've been fed. Anytime you want to do a one on one to see what you know vs what I know, come on by one Sunday; I guarantee your church won't miss you. Just because YOU can't function w/o playing church and cannot see past your legalism, doesn't mean the rest of us need church as a crutch. I've learned more outside of church than I ever will inside.This...is why nobody takes you seriously. The arrogance and pride speaks for itself.

Now we see the real reason you can't stay in a church, you really just can't handle it when people disagree with you and you have no idea what an attitude of submission and humility is.

I pray that the Lord will bless you and grant you peace in your spirit.

This...is why nobody takes you seriously. The arrogance and pride speaks for itself. Now we see the real reason you can't stay in a church, you really just can't handle it when people disagree with you and you have no idea what an attitude of submission and humility is. I pray that the Lord will bless you and grant you peace in your spirit.
Actually, wrong again. You're getting good at that and you don't seem to get tired of it. Save your prayers for your Calvinist friends.

"Nobody takes me seriously"? "Arrogance & Pride"? And yet you say nothing about Stonethrowers comments? I guess arrogance & pride is better than ignorance. Please answer me this: Do you believe that being in a church on Sunday is mandatory? Show me where attendance in an organized church on Sunday is mandatory in the Bible. :tap:

And I can handle disagreements. Lately most of them have been with you. Now you're doing what another forumite did when she couldn't prove her point. Go ahead and post tons of words and verses and try to make them fit YOUR beliefs.

FYI: The reason I left church was because I wasn't getting "fed" there. All the sermons were Christianity 101 and BORING. The same ones over and over w/o any substance or conviction in them. Why? Because the pastors were more interested in filling their chairs than in preaching the complete word. After I left, I went to 12 different churches on the following 12 Sundays and was disappointed with each one of them.

I don't claim to be a scholar but, if I can attend 13 churches and learn very little, it sounds like I didn't need to be in them.I needed to find a place where I could be challenged to grow in my biblical knowledge. This is why 52% of Catholics voted for Obama and why many other "Christians" did too: "...From a lack of knowledge"!

So you two kids run along, sit in your churches on Sunday, learn very little so you can believe things like Calvinism & election and remain comfortable in the company of complacent first grade Christians...

Actually, wrong again. You're getting good at that and you don't seem to get tired of it. Save your prayers for your Calvinist friends.

"Nobody takes me seriously"? "Arrogance & Pride"? And yet you say nothing about Stonethrowers comments? I guess arrogance & pride is better than ignorance. Please answer me this: Do you believe that being in a church on Sunday is mandatory? Show me where attendance in an organized church on Sunday is mandatory in the Bible. :tap:

And I can handle disagreements. Lately most of them have been with you. Now you're doing what another forumite did when she couldn't prove her point. Go ahead and post tons of words and verses and try to make them fit YOUR beliefs.

FYI: The reason I left church was because I wasn't getting "fed" there. All the sermons were Christianity 101 and BORING. The same ones over and over w/o any substance or conviction in them. Why? Because the pastors were more interested in filling their chairs than in preaching the complete word. After I left, I went to 12 different churches on the following 12 Sundays and was disappointed with each one of them.

I don't claim to be a scholar but, if I can attend 13 churches and learn very little, it sounds like I didn't need to be in them.I needed to find a place where I could be challenged to grow in my biblical knowledge. This is why 52% of Catholics voted for Obama and why many other "Christians" did too: "...From a lack of knowledge"!

So you two kids run along, sit in your churches on Sunday, learn very little so you can believe things like Calvinism & election and remain comfortable in the company of complacent first grade Christians...wow, you're a pretty harsh and angry guy.

Church isn't about "getting" anything. It's about giving everything to God and to others. I think that's the first mistake you made.

And if you are looking for deep spiritual food, why are you looking for it in a sermon? All preachers preach with an eye to the unconverted as well as the church. That's why there is adult Sunday School. Come to the Callaway campus of Leonardtown Baptist church some time. Just try it on Sunday at 9am. You might be surprised what you find. Some of us are Calvinists, some are not. We often discuss these things.

wow, you're a pretty harsh and angry guy...



And John Calvin wasn't? John Calvin, the man whose teaching you follow, had his critics ex-communicated, persecuted and one burned at the stake for disagreeing with Calvin's theology.

Hmmm... sounds like a form of "Inquisitions"

As the Biblical saying goes..."by their fruits..." :whistle:

And John Calvin wasn't? John Calvin, the man whose teaching you follow, had his critics ex-communicated, persecuted and one burned at the stake for disagreeing with Calvin's theology.

Hmmm... sounds like a form of "Inquisitions"

As the Biblical saying goes..."by their fruits..." :whistle:Yes indeed. By their fruits...

Read your history a little more and find out why Michael Servetus was executed and why the governing council of Geneva prosecuted him.

Also, you should read about TULIP and how it wasn't invented by Calvin, but rather only in response to the 5 Points of the Remonstrance (Arminius). Doesn't mean Calvin was wrong, just following in the theological footsteps of men like Augustine.

Yes indeed. By their fruits...

Read your history a little more and find out why Michael Servetus was executed and why the governing council of Geneva prosecuted him.

Also, you should read about TULIP and how it wasn't invented by Calvin, but rather only in response to the 5 Points of the Remonstrance (Arminius). Doesn't mean Calvin was wrong, just following in the theological footsteps of men like Augustine.

if Jesus rebuked Peter for slinging his sword and cutting off the ear of one of the men who came to arrest Jesus at Gethsemene, do you think Jesus would have approved of John Calvin's tirades against those who disagreed with him?

if Jesus rebuked Peter for slinging his sword and cutting off the ear of one of the men who came to arrest Jesus at Gethsemene, do you think Jesus would have approved of John Calvin's tirades against those who disagreed with him?Tirades?
What tirades?

One might say you have some serious tirades yourself. Just look around here.

wow, you're a pretty harsh and angry guy.
Church isn't about "getting" anything. It's about giving everything to God and to others. I think that's the first mistake you made.
And if you are looking for deep spiritual food, why are you looking for it in a sermon? All preachers preach with an eye to the unconverted as well as the church. That's why there is adult Sunday School. Come to the Callaway campus of Leonardtown Baptist church some time. Just try it on Sunday at 9am. You might be surprised what you find. Some of us are Calvinists, some are not. We often discuss these things.
Nope; not angry at all. Just tired of you bringing in person after person to give their opinion of what the Bible says.

I've learned that Baptist Sunday school teachers are followers instead of leaders. They typically take their SS guide books and teach what they are told to on a given Sunday. Most of those SS teachers haven't graduated from first grade Christianity and have "Baptist" leanings. Why not use the Bible and let God lead them to a lesson or a sermon as I did when I was there? Because they haven't grown. They still "drink milk" instead of "desiring the meat of Scripture".

And "church isn't about getting anything"? Really? In church we should worship, sing, learn, fellowship & give money but we don't get anything? Why shouldn't I expect to learn something from a sermon? You all sit in church every Sunday, you don't learn, you don't get and you leave happy? Church should be a place for all of those things and, if it isn't, it's a failure.

Nope; not angry at all. Just tired of you bringing in person after person to give their opinion of what the Bible says.
may I ask why it bothers you so much?

I don't just quote anybody. I usually pick highly esteemed and respected leaders in evangelicalism. So I value what they have to say (and I usually agree with them).

I've learned that Baptist Sunday school teachers are followers instead of leaders. They typically take their SS guide books and teach what they are told to on a given Sunday. sometimes this is the case, but not nearly always. I know many teachers who are mature in the faith.

Most of those SS teachers haven't graduated from first grade Christianity and have "Baptist" leanings. Why not use the Bible and let God lead them to a lesson or a sermon as I did when I was there? Because they haven't grown. They still "drink milk" instead of "desiring the meat of Scripture"I have to be honest, I thought similar thoughts about you when you said that statement about "terminology" the other day. No offense intended, but that's what it made me think of.

And "church isn't about getting anything"? Really? In church we should worship, sing, learn, fellowship & give money but we don't get anything? Why shouldn't I expect to learn something from a sermon? You all sit in church every Sunday, you don't learn, you don't get and you leave happy? Church should be a place for all of those things and, if it isn't, it's a failure.nobody is saying we don't get anything or learn from the sermon at all. The gospel is just as important for the mature Christian as the new convert.

We go to give God praise and worship Him corporately. We go to serve and edify others. We go to share Christ with the unconverted visitor. We go to give an offering to God. We go to be taught by others because we consider others better than ourselves. We go to be the people of God in community and to love each other as Christ commanded us.

may I ask why it bothers you so much?
I don't just quote anybody. I usually pick highly esteemed and respected leaders in evangelicalism. So I value what they have to say (and I usually agree with them).
"Highly esteemed" according to whom? You don't always pick people whose teachings square with the Bible. That causes some readers on here to become confused and turned off because others have to come in and correct you. We need to be united on these issues. You and Radiant think that it's ok to post threads that cause us to look divided when, in reality, we need to minimize those differences (Even on secondary issues).

The last thing a new believer or unbeliever needs to read is that God chooses people who He wants to go to Hell. Calvinism does not square with Scripture and you should be mature enough to know that before you post that stuff here. You're becoming careless on here lately by picking some passages that favor your view while ignoring the others.

I have to be honest, I thought similar thoughts about you when you said that statement about "terminology" the other day. No offense intended, but that's what it made me think of.
How could you rightly say that? One thing I never did was stagnate or be complacent. I've learned more scriptural knowledge since I was saved in 1989 than many who have been in church for 30 years. I used to challenge my former pastors to "beef up" their sermons and stop the feel good stuff all the time.

nobody is saying we don't get anything or learn from the sermon at all. The gospel is just as important for the mature Christian as the new convert.

Yes but the same basic story week after week makes people not long for deeper truths and they become content with their "milk" of the word. (Hebrews 5 v 11-14).

I was saved after listening to a Charles Stanley program and, for 2 years, he was my major source of Bible teaching but I never took HIS word over the Bible. I joined a local Baptist church in 1991 but I didn't learn much of anything new in SS so I decided to become a SS teacher to the Youth & our young singles. It helped me learn more than I would have in SS AND it paved the way for me to open up MBP and have a ministry with hundreds of thousands of kids for 15 years.

Tirades?
What tirades?


Re: John Calvin's Tirades (since you asked)



1: Calvin forced the citizens of Geneva to attend church services under a heavy threat of punishment. Since Calvinism falsely teaches that God forces the elect to believe, it is no wonder that Calvin thought he could also force the citizens of Geneva to all become the elect. Not becoming one of the elect was punishable by death or expulsion from Geneva. Calvin exercised forced regeneration on the citizens of Geneva, because that is what his theology teaches.

2: John Calvin celebrated and bragged of his killing of Servetus (Michael Servetus, a Spaniard, physician, scientist and Bible scholar). Many theological and state leaders criticized Calvin for the unwarranted killing of Servetus, but it fell on deaf ears as Calvin advised others to do the same. Calvin wrote much in following years in a continual attempt to justify his burning of Servetus. Some people claim Calvin favored beheading, but this does not fit charges of heresy for which the punishment, as written by Calvin earlier, was to be burning at the stake. Calvin had made a vow years earlier that Servetus would never leave Geneva alive if he were ever captured, and Calvin held true to his pledge. Truly John Calvin is burning in Hell for his heresy, blasphemy of God and murder of many.

3: Another victim of Calvin's fiery zeal was Gentile of an Italian sect in Geneva, which also numbered among its adherents Alciati and Gribaldo. More or less Unitarian in their views, they were required to sign a confession drawn up by Calvin in 1558. Gentile signed it reluctantly, but in the upshot he was condemned and imprisoned as a perjurer. He escaped only to be incarcerated twice at Berne where, in 1566, he was beheaded. Calvin also had thirty-four (34) women burned at the stake after accusing them of being witches who caused a plague that had swept through Geneva in 1545. The number of people murdered by John Calvin has been a dispute -- not the fact that he murdered them. Calvinists reject the references describing John Calvin's reign of terror because they worship him. John Calvin's actions were very paganistic like his mentor, Saint Augustine. Jesus and all of the Apostles would have abhorred and condemned these blatant mass murders.

4: John Calvin's murder of people who held different doctrinal views, his failure to acknowledge or repent from his sins, his incomplete gospel, his placing of his own writings above the Bible, his distortion of God and the Scriptures, and his dependence upon infant baptism places into question his salvation. In all of his writings is not found a clear declaration of his salvation by faith in the birth, life, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. Calvin was a cruel, murderous tyrant who considered himself to be the pope of Geneva. The Bible never advocates harming an individual due to his unbelief or lack of understanding. Jesus taught to "turn the other cheek" instead. None of the Apostles taught action against unbelievers but instead taught the believer to seek them out and present the gospel in love.

Calvinism False Doctrines, Depravity, Election, Atonement, Irresistible Grace. (http://www.biblelife.org/calvinism.htm)

The last thing a new believer or unbeliever needs to read is that God chooses people who He wants to go to Hell.Because the Starmanism of god knowing whether someone will go to hell or heaven before the person is born while maintaining that the person has a 'choice' is so much different. :coffee:


Yes but the same basic story week after week makes people not long for deeper truths and they become content with their "milk" of the word. (Hebrews 5 v 11-14).Is that anything like having a knee-jerk reflex of going on about Mary being "Co-Redemptrix", "Queen of Heaven", et al every time a Catholic enters the room?

Because the Starmanism of god knowing whether someone will go to hell or heaven before the person is born while maintaining that the person has a 'choice' is so much different. :coffee:

Glad to know that you have caught on. Yes, God knows the beginning and end to all things - even the decision one finally makes when they have a choice to respond to the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ being His Son and taking the punishment for the sins of all who place faith in Him as personal Lord and Saviour. In the final outcome you will have either accepted God's Forgiveness or rejected it.


Is that anything like having a knee-jerk reflex of going on about Mary being "Co-Redemptrix", "Queen of Heaven", et al every time a Catholic enters the room?

Truth Must Be Told! (John 14:6)

Glad to know that you have caught on. Yes, God knows the beginning and end to all things - even the decision one finally makes when they have a choice to respond to the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ being His Son and taking the punishment for the sins of all who place faith in Him as personal Lord and Saviour. In the final outcome you will have either accepted God's Forgiveness or rejected it.



Truth Must Be Told! (John 14:6)Yes, but there are are only 4 Catholics on here. How many times have you preached about it?

Well, I haven't posted a lot here lately but I have been reading. IS-while trying to prove that you and your fellow Protestants aren't divided, you have only proved that you are. Your pride is/will be your spiritual downfall. However, sadly, you are too proud to see this.

You and Radiant think that it's ok to post threads that cause us to look divided when, in reality, we need to minimize those differences (Even on secondary issues).


But you are divided. It's ok to face the truth and not hide it, IS.

But you are divided. It's ok to face the truth and not hide it, IS.And it's ok to disagree on many things (to a degree), such as whether predestination is unconditional or conditional or whether 2 Peter 3:9 refers to every person universally or only to those whom God elects.

That's not division, that's healthy debate. Nothing wrong with that. Some things are debatable within the confines of Scripture. It's when folks come along and say "STOP! You are wrong! Don't post that!" that things go into a tailspin.

And it's ok to disagree on many things (to a degree), such as whether predestination is unconditional or conditional or whether 2 Peter 3:9 refers to every person universally or only to those whom God elects.

That's not division, that's healthy debate. Nothing wrong with that. Some things are debatable within the confines of Scripture. It's when folks come along and say "STOP! You are wrong! Don't post that!" that things go into a tailspin.

Agreed! :yay:

Even the Apostles had some "healthy debates" but none that negated their salvation. They were still sealed unto Salvation through faith in Christ as God's Only Begotten Son, Lamb of God, Resurrected Lord and Saviour of mankind and The Jewish Messiah that had been prophesied.

Glad to know that you have caught on.Glad to see you admit your belief is not different after all.


Truth Must Be Told! (John 14:6)The more you say it the more it must be true. :yay:

A Defense of Calvinism by Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-92) known as the "Prince of Preachers"

A Defense of Calvinism (http://www.spurgeon.org/calvinis.htm)

Snippets

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Well, I haven't posted a lot here lately but I have been reading. IS-while trying to prove that you and your fellow Protestants aren't divided, you have only proved that you are. Your pride is/will be your spiritual downfall. However, sadly, you are too proud to see this.
But you are divided. It's ok to face the truth and not hide it, IS.
I'm sorry that you both are unable to follow along here...

I am a fan of Calvin as well!!! :howdy: