What did Christ's Atonement on the cross accomplish? What was it that happened? What was purchased by His death?

Which of these statements is true?

1. Christ died for some of the sins of all men.
2. Christ died for all the sins of some men.
3. Christ died for all the sins of all men.

No one says that the first is true, for then all would be lost because of the sins that Christ did not die for. The only way to be saved from sin is for Christ to cover it with his blood.

The third statement is what the Arminians would say. Christ died for all the sins of all men.

But then why are not all saved? They answer, Because some do not believe.

But is this unbelief not one of the sins for which Christ died?

If they say yes, then why is it not covered by the blood of Jesus and all unbelievers saved?

If they say no (unbelief is not a sin that Christ has died for) then they must say that men can be saved without having all their sins atoned for by Jesus, or they must join us in affirming statement number two: Christ died for all the sins of some men. That is, he died for the unbelief of the elect so that God's punitive wrath is appeased toward them and his grace is free to draw them irresistibly out of darkness into his marvelous light.


The above is merely a summary of a much lengthier article that can be read here:
What We Believe About the Five Points of#Calvinism Revised March, 1998 - Desiring God (http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/articles/what-we-believe-about-the-five-points-of-calvinism#Atonement)

What did Christ's Atonement on the cross accomplish? What was it that happened? What was purchased by His death?

Which of these statements is true?

1. Christ died for some of the sins of all men.
2. Christ died for all the sins of some men.
3. Christ died for all the sins of all men.

No one says that the first is true, for then all would be lost because of the sins that Christ did not die for. The only way to be saved from sin is for Christ to cover it with his blood.

The third statement is what the Arminians would say. Christ died for all the sins of all men.

But then why are not all saved? They answer, Because some do not believe.

But is this unbelief not one of the sins for which Christ died?

If they say yes, then why is it not covered by the blood of Jesus and all unbelievers saved?

If they say no (unbelief is not a sin that Christ has died for) then they must say that men can be saved without having all their sins atoned for by Jesus, or they must join us in affirming statement number two: Christ died for all the sins of some men. That is, he died for the unbelief of the elect so that God's punitive wrath is appeased toward them and his grace is free to draw them irresistibly out of darkness into his marvelous light.


The above is merely a summary of a much lengthier article that can be read here:
What We Believe About the Five Points of#Calvinism Revised March, 1998 - Desiring God (http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/articles/what-we-believe-about-the-five-points-of-calvinism#Atonement)

There is Only One Unforgiveable Sin according to the Bible:
This is the one that encompasses the sin of unbelief



Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. (Matthew 12:31-33)

Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.

And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

(Luke 12:8-10)

There is Only One Unforgiveable Sin according to the Bible:
This is the one that encompasses the sin of unbeliefThere was a time when I was lost in unbelief. Yet I was forgiven...

How is that possible according to your interpretation?

You didn't die w/that sin of unbelief. You came to your senses. He waited for you like a patient father waits for his son to return home.

You're really doing a disservice to Christianity on here Zguy. You need to STOP! Since you haven't really understood the Bible, you might want to read it completely. There's nothing wrong with asking for opinions on here but implying that your personal beliefs are doctrine, is a :nono:

John makes it clear that Christ died for all the sins of the whole world. He did NOT say: "all the sins of some men". There is enough "blood" to forgive the sins of ALL men IF ALL men come to the cross for forgiveness. It is not affected by whether they ALL will believe and get forgiven or not.

"But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense —Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2 v 2).

The problem is with YOUR mis-understanding of Scripture and YOUR refusal to believe it ALL IN CONTEXT. You say: "if this, then that" and that is not always true. You jump to some really wrong conclusions. When you try to push a contradictory agenda, you cause some folks on here to be confused about the truth. Once they are convinced that the Bible is a mass of confusion, the devil wins and he wins with your help...

You're really doing a disservice to Christianity on here Zguy. You need to STOP! Since you haven't really understood the Bible, you might want to read it completely. There's nothing wrong with asking for opinions on here but implying that your personal beliefs are doctrine, is a :nono:It's funny, because I feel the EXACT way about you and Starman.

But, at the same time, I welcome your views on issues of theology. Otherwise we return to the dark ages where a few "church folks" think the bible is only for the "smart people" who get it. That's how you come off.

It is also apparent that you can't stand somebody coming into your little sandbox and disagreeing with you on matters of doctrine and bible interpretation.

And don't wag your finger at me, we are all adults and it's rude and condescending.

John makes it clear that Christ died for all the sins of the whole world. He did NOT say: "all the sins of some men". There is enough "blood" to forgive the sins of ALL men IF ALL men come to the cross for forgiveness. It is not affected by whether they ALL will believe and get forgiven or not. Then why are not ALL men's sins forgiven them including the SIN of unbelief?


"But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense —Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2 v 2).

The problem is with YOUR mis-understanding of Scripture and YOUR refusal to believe it ALL IN CONTEXT. You say: "if this, then that" and that is not always true. You jump to some really wrong conclusions. When you try to push a contradictory agenda, you cause some folks on here to be confused about the truth. Once they are convinced that the Bible is a mass of confusion, the devil wins and he wins with your help...Again, I feel the same way about you. EXCEPT...I like being challenged by folks like you. I like it, it stretches me and sometimes I realize places where I've been wrong in INTERPRETATION of the text. I'm not claiming humility, for I know it doesn't dwell in my flesh. Not one bit. But I do know things that have happened in my life where my interpretation evolved based on a more accurate understanding of the text.

I do not hold the same hope for you given my current experience with you. Nobody will convince you EVER of any error in your doctrine. Same goes for Starman.

Why is that?

Are you infallible like the Pope? Because you certainly act like it.

Do you pray for me IS?

You didn't die w/that sin of unbelief. You came to your senses. He waited for you like a patient father waits for his son to return home.But Starman preaches that Unbelief is an unforgivable sin...

If Starman says a sin is unforgivable, how can it be forgiven?

You're really doing a disservice to Christianity on here Zguy. You need to STOP! Since you haven't really understood the Bible, you might want to read it completely. There's nothing wrong with asking for opinions on here but implying that your personal beliefs are doctrine, is a :nono:



Yet it's the same thing YOU do..

Yeah, you better STFU ZGuy, unless you believe EXACTLY what Italian Scallion believes..

It's funny, because I feel the EXACT way about you and Starman. But, at the same time, I welcome your views on issues of theology. Otherwise we return to the dark ages where a few "church folks" think the bible is only for the "smart people" who get it. That's how you come off.
Didn't Jesus get upset when someone had a "different teaching" than His?
Didn't Paul speak against "a different Gospel/Jesus"?
Then we should too. This business of God choosing and us having NO say in it, never reconciles with Scripture in its intended context. We have a command to correct anyone who says otherwise.

It is also apparent that you can't stand somebody coming into your little sandbox and disagreeing with you on matters of doctrine and bible interpretation.
Are you saying that I should accept whatever is said here? "Tolerance" has caused most of the worlds problems. If those matters are clearly taught in the Bible and we have the same Holy Spirit, there shouldn't be those major disagreements.

And don't wag your finger at me, we are all adults and it's rude and condescending.
Look closely and you'll see that it is not MY finger. It belongs to some little yellow headed guy..:razz:

Then why are not ALL men's sins forgiven them including the SIN of unbelief?
Because not everyone chooses to get forgiven, or don't you believe that either? You're trying to make that verse stand alone and out of context with the other related verses. It would be like including Jesus in the verse about everyone being a sinner: "There's none righteous, no not one". If that verse is taken literally, then Paul means Jesus also. See?

Again, I feel the same way about you. EXCEPT...I like being challenged by folks like you. I like it, it stretches me and sometimes I realize places where I've been wrong in INTERPRETATION of the text. I'm not claiming humility, for I know it doesn't dwell in my flesh. Not one bit. But I do know things that have happened in my life where my interpretation evolved based on a more accurate understanding of the text.
And that's how is often happens unless the text is clear immediately. It's one thing to come here to learn (and many of us do), but you come in here trying to teach what you think is Bible truth when it isn't. When you bring all those different names (and opinions) in here, they will almost always "muddy up the waters". Read them if you want to but you must let the Bible be the "final say" on all matters.

I do not hold the same hope for you given my current experience with you. Nobody will convince you EVER of any error in your doctrine. Same goes for Starman. Why is that?
Are you infallible like the Pope? Because you certainly act like it.
Do you pray for me IS?
Actually I have been corrected a few times on here about errors in my understanding of doctrine. Of course it wasn't anything about primary Bible doctrine though.

Speaking for myself I have been a Christian and have studied the Bible daily for the last 23 years very dilligently. I've been a Bible teacher since 1990, a Sunday school teacher, a youth minister and an interim pastor; ya think I might know a little about the book? There are a lot of things I still don't know but there are some things that I absolutely know w/o an iota of doubt.

Just because I know more (Bible doctrine) than many on here, doesn't mean that I'm infallible (And btw, the pope is NOT infallible unless he's reading directly out of the Bible). I read carefully what Starman, 2A & PsyOps post. I consider them to be very knowledgeable in the Scriptures and they help me stay "sharp".

I absolutely do pray for you and all the other forumites each night. :angel:

But Starman preaches that Unbelief is an unforgivable sin...
If Starman says a sin is unforgivable, how can it be forgiven?
He's right Zguy, if that sin is carried through to ones death. The sin of unbelief, sometimes called the unpardonable sin, is a willful, ongoing (to the death) denial of Jesus Christ. Jesus made it clear that He will forgive ANY and ALL sins except for that one. We have a chance to be forgiven every day that we are alive. Once we die, there is no chance for forgiveness. That shows that no one is forgiven on the other side.

Yet it's the same thing YOU do..

Yeah, you better STFU ZGuy, unless you believe EXACTLY what Italian Scallion believes..
:killingme Hi Bob. WalMart is selling clues, you should get one...:howdy:

But Starman preaches that Unbelief is an unforgivable sin...

If Starman says a sin is unforgivable, how can it be forgiven?

:faint:
It's as suthrncom4t stated; "you didn't die in your unbelief and came to your senses..."

It is when a person goes before God's White Throne Judgment where the sin of unbelief comes under God's Judgment. Unbelievers in the here and now still have the opportunity to come to the Saving faith in Christ as God is patient and not willing that anyone should perish. However, if a person dies in unbelief then it is too late; there is no second chance.



Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:Of sin, because they believe not on me;
(John 16:7-9)

BTW: Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (the unforgiveable sin) is denying that the Power of miracles and Divine Intervention through the Holy Spirit is from God which includes the revealed Testimony of Jesus Christ being the Son of The Living God. Since it is the Holy Spirit of God that reveals Truth any person who hears and yet denies/disbelieves that Jesus is The Son of God is in danger of eternal damnation if they die with that unbelief and rejection of Christ.

This world is full of people walking around in "unbelief" and that is why the Gospel Message of Christ is to be preached to all parts of the earth. Yet, the Bible states that there will be people who willfully choose not believe in the Gospel Message of Christ:



He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. (John 3:18-20)

ItalianScallion

You maybe correct saying its not the wisest thing to discuss here. On the other hand not everyone here is still drinking milk or lost.
One might say you are the one being stuborn, clinging to the beliefs of a man deemed a heretic.

Have you ever heard of Hyperbole? It's used in scripture in quite a few places.
Your resistance to limited atonment actually limits the atonment, refer to Johnny Macs sermon on Limited atonement that was posted before.

If your concerned about the lost Ok, perhaps a private forum for those that want to understand the depths of scripture would be apropiate.

Perhaps your affraid the young man might surpass you with his formal education and cause you to have to examine yourself and see if you are in the truth?

It amazes me peoples resentment for Augustinian theology.

ItalianScallion

You maybe correct saying its not the wisest thing to discuss here. On the other hand not everyone here is still drinking milk or lost.
One might say you are the one being stuborn, clinging to the beliefs of a man deemed a heretic.

Have you ever heard of Hyperbole? It's used in scripture in quite a few places.
Your resistance to limited atonment actually limits the atonment, refer to Johnny Macs sermon on Limited atonement that was posted before.

If your concerned about the lost Ok, perhaps a private forum for those that want to understand the depths of scripture would be apropiate.

Perhaps your affraid the young man might surpass you with his formal education and cause you to have to examine yourself and see if you are in the truth?

It amazes me peoples resentment for Augustinian theology.I could probably list the names of the actual people who read this forum, it's not many, so I don't think its really an issue.

Religion Forum users

Stonethrower
ItalianScallion
Starman3000
UNA
JP Cusick
HotCoffee
Itsbob
hvp05
Radient1
Libby
Zguy28

Thinking this forum is a Mecca for evangelistic opportunity is the definition of hyperbole, if not outrageous.

Thinking this forum is a Mecca for evangelistic opportunity is the definition of hyperbole, if not outrageous.You have to add onel and Bird Dog, but I'm sure you'd still be under the bar. :lol:

You have to add onel and Bird Dog, but I'm sure you'd still be under the bar. :lol:yes, and Bavarian too. But I haven't seen them in a while. In fact, I haven't seen any of our Roman Catholic friends in a while...

Which Atonement?

The one where the Pagan Savior was crucified on a tree and resurrected, or the one many years later when Christ was crucified on a Cross and was resurrected.

Of course the PAGAN resurrection was a Myth, the Christian resurrection really happened.. no really, it did..

ItalianScallion

You maybe correct saying its not the wisest thing to discuss here. On the other hand not everyone here is still drinking milk or lost.
One might say you are the one being stuborn, clinging to the beliefs of a man deemed a heretic.

Have you ever heard of Hyperbole? It's used in scripture in quite a few places.
Your resistance to limited atonment actually limits the atonment, refer to Johnny Macs sermon on Limited atonement that was posted before.

If your concerned about the lost Ok, perhaps a private forum for those that want to understand the depths of scripture would be apropiate.

Perhaps your affraid the young man might surpass you with his formal education and cause you to have to examine yourself and see if you are in the truth?

It amazes me peoples resentment for Augustinian theology.
Maybe you and Bob can carpool to WalMart...

why must you demand proof from a book that was edited by so many so long ago to the point that the truth was lost to be replaced with dictates to the illerate masses?

yes, and Bavarian too. But I haven't seen them in a while. In fact, I haven't seen any of our Roman Catholic friends in a while...

As you know, "our Roman Catholic friends" sincerely believe that, Mary was literally "assumed to Heaven" (body and soul), as taught by the Vatican; accompanies Jesus as the "Queen of Heaven," "Mediatrix," "Co-Redemptrix," Advocate," can be prayed to directly for guidance and has the power to help Jesus get souls into Heaven. They also believe that the flesh and blood of Christ are literally manifest during Communion.

Do you, Zguy28, believe that the RCC teaches the same "Jesus" as Calvinists? Yes or No?

I'd like your decision on this please. Thanks.

As you know, "our Roman Catholic friends" sincerely believe that, Mary was literally "assumed to Heaven" (body and soul), as taught by the Vatican; accompanies Jesus as the "Queen of Heaven," "Mediatrix," "Co-Redemptrix," Advocate," can be prayed to directly for guidance and has the power to help Jesus get souls into Heaven. They also believe that the flesh and blood of Christ are literally manifest during Communion.

Do you, Zguy28, believe that the RCC teaches the same "Jesus" as Calvinists? Yes or No?

I'd like your decision on this please. Thanks.You know, you are the only person I have ever run across who takes that line. I think it depends on the point of view honestly.

There are many errors in RCC doctrine. But there is only one Jesus. The RCC has a false conception of Mary, not Jesus I think.

While the RCC believes in the deity of Christ, the Trinity, and many other things, they do not believe in Justification by Faith Alone (sola fide). This is essential to being a Christian AKA "being saved."

That is the major issue and where you should focus in your apologetic.

But feel free to CONTINUE to accuse me of heresy. :howdy:

why must you demand proof from a book that was edited by so many so long ago to the point that the truth was lost to be replaced with dictates to the illerate masses?
You should go to WalMart with Bob & the others...

Look Zorro, if you want to learn, ask. If not, please don't make those ignorant statements about a book that you haven't researched properly. :howdy:

You should go to WalMart with Bob & the others...

Look Zorro, if you want to learn, ask. If not, please don't make those ignorant statements about a book that you haven't researched properly. :howdy:

Well I think the original "atonement" and resurrection would ha e a lot more meaning and value then your copycat "atonement" and resurrection.

Well I think the original "atonement" and resurrection would ha e a lot more meaning and value then your copycat "atonement" and resurrection.
There's only one atonement & resurrection.

You know, you are the only person I have ever run across who takes that line. I think it depends on the point of view honestly.

There are many errors in RCC doctrine. But there is only one Jesus. The RCC has a false conception of Mary, not Jesus I think.

While the RCC believes in the deity of Christ, the Trinity, and many other things, they do not believe in Justification by Faith Alone (sola fide). This is essential to being a Christian AKA "being saved."


The "essential" to being saved is believing in and placing complete faith in the True Jesus of The New Testament.


For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached,or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
(2 Corinthians 11:4)



The New Testament Jesus does not send people to a spiritual half-way house called "purgatory". Nor does The New Testament Jesus give His Authority to men to be able to "forgive sins" of others. Nor does The New Testament Jesus permit "believers" to direct their prayers and petitions to His mother and the myriad of other "saints in Heaven".

Yes, the RCC does teach another Jesus and another gospel and not the True Jesus of The New Testament.

Since you all were asking....to be honest, like IS said he got nothing out of attending church on
Sunday, I came to a point where I truly was getting zilch from this forum. As a matter of fact, this forum actually has driven me to daily Mass and serving my parish more. It's not the messages, it's the messengers. If anything this forum should be used as an example in apologetics training on what NOT to do. Best to all of you.

While the RCC believes in the deity of Christ, the Trinity, and many other things, they do not believe in Justification by Faith Alone (sola fide). This is essential to being a Christian AKA "being saved."

That is the major issue and where you should focus in your apologetic.

But feel free to CONTINUE to accuse me of heresy. :howdy:

Oh, don't be so butt hurt. Starman thinks you're a heretic, you think he's a heretic, you both think I'm a heretic and I think you're both dirty heretics of the worst sort. :bigwhoop:

Oh, don't be so butt hurt. Starman thinks you're a heretic, you think he's a heretic, you both think I'm a heretic and I think you're both dirty heretics of the worst sort. :bigwhoop:

:killingme

Since you all were asking....to be honest, like IS said he got nothing out of attending church on
Sunday, I came to a point where I truly was getting zilch from this forum. As a matter of fact, this forum actually has driven me to daily Mass and serving my parish more. It's not the messages, it's the messengers. If anything this forum should be used as an example in apologetics training on what NOT to do. Best to all of you.

Was it something I said? :whistle:

There's only one atonement & resurrection.

So I would assume that would be the FIRST, ORIGINAL one, and the rest just cheap knock off copies of the REAL one..


The one YOU believe in is WAAAAAAY down the line, so really just a bastardized Chinese knock off of the original.. not even "same enough" to use the right materials.

So I would assume that would be the FIRST, ORIGINAL one, and the rest just cheap knock off copies of the REAL one..


The one YOU believe in is WAAAAAAY down the line, so really just a bastardized Chinese knock off of the original.. not even "same enough" to use the right materials.
Have you ever read the book Reinventing Jesus? It's pretty good, you'd enjoy it.

Since you all were asking....to be honest, like IS said he got nothing out of attending church on
Sunday, I came to a point where I truly was getting zilch from this forum. As a matter of fact, this forum actually has driven me to daily Mass and serving my parish more. It's not the messages, it's the messengers. If anything this forum should be used as an example in apologetics training on what NOT to do. Best to all of you.
:yeahthat:

You've got the "Squawking Parrot" who when he is not out bashing statues of Mary, he keeps talking about all these new Jesus's he's made up and you got the Red Robin preacher who talks condescending to anyone who disagrees, with his throwback to the 70's persona.

I say let them rumble with Zguy28 for awhile until he gets tired of
:deadhorse:deadhorse

Maybe you and Bob can carpool to WalMart...

Whys Bob going to Walmart, and Why would I want to carpool?
So do you embrace Open Theism as well? That seems to be the logical conclusion for Arminians.

As you know, "our Roman Catholic friends" sincerely believe that, Mary was literally "assumed to Heaven" (body and soul), as taught by the Vatican; accompanies Jesus as the "Queen of Heaven," "Mediatrix," "Co-Redemptrix," Advocate," can be prayed to directly for guidance and has the power to help Jesus get souls into Heaven. They also believe that the flesh and blood of Christ are literally manifest during Communion.

Do you, Zguy28, believe that the RCC teaches the same "Jesus" as Calvinists? Yes or No?

I'd like your decision on this please. Thanks.

No they attribute it to the same Jesus Christ, but its not the same. Their savior needs mans help, and seven scraments. A perfect sinless God that took on the form of a man was not enough to atone for mans sin.

Since you all were asking....to be honest, like IS said he got nothing out of attending church on
Sunday,

Maybe he should have found a better church?

So I would assume that would be the FIRST, ORIGINAL one, and the rest just cheap knock off copies of the REAL one..
The one YOU believe in is WAAAAAAY down the line, so really just a bastardized Chinese knock off of the original.. not even "same enough" to use the right materials.
All the others are fairy tales Bob. No one can do or has ever done what Jesus did.
Maybe he should have found a better church?
:duh: Read all the posts ST. The sale runs until WalMart goes out of business...

All the others are fairy tales Bob. No one can do or has ever done what Jesus did.

:duh: Read all the posts ST. The sale runs until WalMart goes out of business...

That right there makes you an absolute genius.... :sarcasm:
ALL the religions that thought of it before us were liars, and ALL of their's were myths, i mean who could possibly believe THEIR resurrections were true!

But ours is true, absolutely no doubt.

It didn't happen before, in ALL of the other religions, those are all lies, but ours is TRUE!

You honestly don't see the hypocrisy in this?

WOW, just WOW!

That right there makes you an absolute genius.... :sarcasm:
ALL the religions that thought of it before us were liars, and ALL of their's were myths, i mean who could possibly believe THEIR resurrections were true!

But ours is true, absolutely no doubt.

It didn't happen before, in ALL of the other religions, those are all lies, but ours is TRUE!

You honestly don't see the hypocrisy in this?

WOW, just WOW!
No one else ever resurrected themselves from the dead.
No one else is God in human flesh.
No one else, who died, is alive to tell about it except Jesus...

That right there makes you an absolute genius.... :sarcasm:
ALL the religions that thought of it before us were liars, and ALL of their's were myths, i mean who could possibly believe THEIR resurrections were true!

But ours is true, absolutely no doubt.

It didn't happen before, in ALL of the other religions, those are all lies, but ours is TRUE!

You honestly don't see the hypocrisy in this?

WOW, just WOW!

None of those "mythical saviours" literally raised people from the dead nor did they literally Resurrect from the dead and witnessed by several hundred people.

None of those "mythical saviours" literally ascended to Heaven with the Promise He would return to stop evil and injustice among mankind and bring God's Peace to earth.

None of those "mythical saviours" literally had the Power to give Eternal Life;

Only One Saviour did and His Life has been documented, therefore, He was not a myth.

Our Lord and Saviour - The New Testament Jesus Christ.

yes, and Bavarian too. But I haven't seen them in a while. In fact, I haven't seen any of our Roman Catholic friends in a while...

Speaking for myself, I still pop in to see what's going on, however, SM and IS have exhausted my Christian charity. "Lead me not into temptation", so I stay away.

Since you all were asking....to be honest, like IS said he got nothing out of attending church on
Sunday, I came to a point where I truly was getting zilch from this forum. As a matter of fact, this forum actually has driven me to daily Mass and serving my parish more. It's not the messages, it's the messengers. If anything this forum should be used as an example in apologetics training on what NOT to do. Best to all of you.

I’ve never taken this forum as a place to answer all my questions and fill any kind of void that isn’t filled somewhere else. It’s strictly a place for me to come and share ideas, joke around, make friends, and hopefully learn a thing or two. If I wanted sermons I most certainly would go to church. If I wanted fellowship I’d meet up with friends.

This forum is a place for opinions, from a variety of ideologies. I get the impression you expected everyone would appeal to your sensibilities. But, you did decide to come back and participate anyway; so maybe it’s not all the negativity you claim it to be.

None of those "mythical saviours" literally raised people from the dead nor did they literally Resurrect from the dead and witnessed by several hundred people.

None of those "mythical saviours" literally ascended to Heaven with the Promise He would return to stop evil and injustice among mankind and bring God's Peace to earth.

None of those "mythical saviours" literally had the Power to give Eternal Life;

Only One Saviour did and His Life has been documented, therefore, He was not a myth.

Our Lord and Saviour - The New Testament Jesus Christ.

Your first assumption is wrong..

The others you're just saying that your myth was different than THEIR myth.. It doesn't prove that your's is any more true

In fact, I would suggest that if you CAN'T believe in their resurrections, and rebirths than you can't, with any level of certainty or crediblity believe in yours.

Again, how can you say their's are ALL myths, and fiction, but OURS is true?

Sounds pretty lame to me.

This forum is a place for opinions, from a variety of ideologies. Some don't see it that way though.

I appreciate the interaction with you. Just wanted to say that. :howdy:

... how can you say their's are ALL myths, and fiction, but OURS is true?

Because I can. :cheers: