Yep, sure enough, it aint about taking over another automaker, it's about the poor downtrodden workers having a voice. And I kind of have to say Reuters really blew the objectivity meter, with not one dissenting opinion sought, other than the bit by the company spokeman. Wanna bet 15 minutes of looking on the ground near the plant coulda turned up a few workers willing to give another opinion of the company meetings? A few quotes.....


UAW sets sights to organize Nissan plant in US South | Reuters (http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/06/08/uaw-nissan-idINL1E8H8G9420120608)



The effort was revealed this week by union officials, state politicians and civil rights leaders.

I love how there's this combined effort between govt, civil rights leaders, and the labor union.

"We can't be a meaningful union, we cannot do the job our members at Ford, GM and Chrysler deserve if we don't organize the total industry," King said last month during an interview with Reuters in New York.

Meaning if we cant intimidate (Card Check anyone?) a whole new generation of union members, we are doomed.

Also, this cracks me up....

But King is eager to show a new UAW has emerged from past practices that helped submarine the dominance of Detroit's auto manufacturers and that the union is a better partner with management. He points to the union's labor contracts with General Motors Co, Ford Motor Co and Chrysler Group LLC as evidence of the UAW's new flexibility.


Yep, what you were forced into at gunpoint shows your flexibility:eyebrow:

After reading the article, it sounds to me like the workers at that plant are leaning towards being organized. I can also see where it can become a civil rights issue when you have politicians like Walker taking away citizens right to collectively bargain. The right to choose is what it boils down to.

I can also see where it can become a civil rights issue when you have politicians like Walker taking away citizens right to collectively bargain. The right to choose is what it boils down to.

What does anything Walker (and governors in other states, plus the Federal govt) did and are doing vis a vis reigning in the costs of public employees have to do with unions in private sector industries??

After reading the article, it sounds to me like the workers at that plant are leaning towards being organized. .

two Nissan workers at the Canton plant told Reuters that they want a stronger voice in how workers are compensated.



:killingme:killingme:killingme

UAW reinventing itself as a civil rights bunch

Any chance they might start by returning the billions of dollars they stole from investors and pension funds, or had the federal government steal on their behalf, in the Great American Auto Industry Heist of 2009?

Any chance they might start by returning the billions of dollars they stole from investors and pension funds, or had the federal government steal on their behalf, in the Great American Auto Industry Heist of 2009?

Did you read this;

Can Germany come to the euro zone’s rescue? - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/can-germany-come-to-the-euro-zones-rescue/2012/06/10/gJQAVz2ITV_story.html)

Any chance they might start by returning the billions of dollars they stole from investors and pension funds, or had the federal government steal on their behalf, in the Great American Auto Industry Heist of 2009?

Did you read this;

Can Germany come to the euro zone’s rescue? - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/can-germany-come-to-the-euro-zones-rescue/2012/06/10/gJQAVz2ITV_story.html)

Not directly related. More of an overview piece that, connecting a view dots, and a lesson or 9, especially Germany's labor cooperation, to help get them back up and running.

Did you read this;

Can Germany come to the euro zone’s rescue? - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/can-germany-come-to-the-euro-zones-rescue/2012/06/10/gJQAVz2ITV_story.html)

Not directly related. More of an overview piece that, connecting a view dots, and a lesson or 9, especially Germany's labor cooperation, to help get them back up and running.

I had not, thanks. Germany's in a tight spot. If it doesn't help the rest of the EU, their problems likely will eventually visit some misfortune on Germany's economy. But at the same time, what prospects are there in extending yourself to help others that are in desperate need of help yet seem unwilling to bear the burden (and near-term pain) of helping themselves?

Only the United States along with China and other countries with large foreign exchange reserves could create such a fund. That this now seems politically impossible is one measure of global peril.

The only reason that suggestions to this effect aren't building volume here in the U.S. is that they would be toxic politically. Give me some politicians (or one important politician) that don't need to worry about getting reelected (for whatever reason), and I think we just might start hearing domestic calls for us to help save Europe backed up by assertions that we're the only one that can.

Give me some politicians (or one important politician) that don't need to worry about getting reelected (for whatever reason), and I think we just might start hearing domestic calls for us to help save Europe backed up by assertions that we're the only one that can.

George W. Bush.

:lol:

(A) what prospects are there in extending yourself to help others that are in desperate need of help yet seem unwilling to bear the burden (and near-term pain) of helping themselves?


(B) for us to help save Europe backed up by assertions that we're the only one that can.


Catch 22.

How do you help someone who won't help themselves? By definition, isn't helping someone who won't help themselves, not helping them?

And, if so, is it then proper to say we are the only ones who can help someone who won't help themselves?

I mean, yeah, there are all sorts of details; how hard are they trying/what are the particulars of the chances of their success. However, if the the word 'no' isn't even on the table then, this is all we get; an ever weakening 'strong' party and a weaker party that is getting weaker as well.

This is what infuriates me about TARP and the GM bailout; the opportunity, the pressure, the urgency to take all those great minds and talents and FIX the ####ing things, GONE!!!!

Any chance they might start by returning the billions of dollars they stole from investors and pension funds, or had the federal government steal on their behalf, in the Great American Auto Industry Heist of 2009?

You must be talking about GM not the UAW.
Vastly inacurate either way.

You must be talking about GM not the UAW.
Vastly inacurate either way.
Unions came out of it with cash, investors were lucky to get 10¢ on the dollar I'd say it's fairly accurate.

You must be talking about GM not the UAW.

No, I'm talking about the UAW. GM, as it existed previously, perished. Its owners lost everything, as well they should have. But its creditors were entitled to recover some of the value they were owed even as a new entity took (for a price) possession of the going concern that had been GM (i.e. the operations there of). They were entitled to that in accordance with the law and based on their respective positions as creditors. That was not allowed to happen. Value that they were entitled to was diverted in a purely political process that was antithetical to the rule of law.

GM was not bailed out (it was allowed to go bankrupt). Its owners were not bailed out. Most of its creditors were not bailed out. The UAW was bailed out and given more than it was entitled to under the law. The going concern that is the new GM is probably in worse fiscal condition today than it would have been had it been allowed to go through a normal bankruptcy process as it should have been. Most of its creditors are worse off than they would have been. By and large, the only people better off than they would have been had the auto bailouts not happened are UAW retirees and members. Some of the suppliers may be better off as well, but that would be debatable.

I'd be happy to debate the details of what happened with you. Have you read all the relevant documents (e.g. bankruptcy filings, UAW contract changes, distribution of assets and interest in the GM going concern) or do I need to wait for you to do so? Oh, and can we lump the Chrysler proceedings in with this and discuss the entire 'auto bailout' situation together?

After reading the article, it sounds to me like the workers at that plant are leaning towards being organized. I can also see where it can become a civil rights issue when you have politicians like Walker taking away citizens right to collectively bargain. The right to choose is what it boils down to.

And that was my beef with the coverage. No attempt to make a balanced presentation. Shouldn't be hard to find other employees, ones with a different view point. Do one pro, one con. Ask the copany rep if you can screen the presentation with the employees, see what they say and bounce it against the reality of what you, the reporter, just saw.

But no, we'll just whip out a pro-union piece without any faint attempt to present both sides.

You must be talking about GM not the UAW.
Vastly inacurate either way.

Totally accurate. The UAW was the only 'class' of stakeholders that came out well in that entire deal. "GM", as embodied in its general investors, got the royal shaft.

Oops..like Tilted noted. Note to self: Read all replies before posting own.

I'd be happy to debate the details of what happened with you. Have you read all the relevant documents (e.g. bankruptcy filings, UAW contract changes, distribution of assets and interest in the GM going concern) or do I need to wait for you to do so? Oh, and can we lump the Chrysler proceedings in with this and discuss the entire 'auto bailout' situation together?




You will not get a debate from Sparx on matters involviong UNIONS


he is ALL UNION All the Time ............ UNIONS are the only savior for Workers .... employees having to 'go it alone' without collective bargaining is EVIL


:buddies:

Great timing... this paper was released just yesterday. To be clear, meaningfully none of my opinions and conclusions regarding the auto bailouts are based on what others have argued - they aren't based on other people's commentary or conclusions. I was following the situation and figuring out what was going from the beginning, and my conclusions were based on what I figured out for myself.

That doesn't mean I can't link to other people's comments though, and that's what I'm doing here. Todd Zywicki is a professor at George Mason specializing in, among other things, bankruptcy law. I'm not familiar with his co-author, James Sherk. They don't make all the points that could be made in criticism of the auto bailout situation, but they touch on a number of the important ones.

Auto Bailout or UAW Bailout? Taxpayer Losses Came from Subsidizing Union Compensation (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/06/auto-bailout-or-uaw-bailout-taxpayer-losses-came-from-subsidizing-union-compensation)

After reading the article, it sounds to me like the workers at that plant are leaning towards being organized. I can also see where it can become a civil rights issue when you have politicians like Walker taking away citizens right to collectively bargain. The right to choose is what it boils down to.

You must be talking about GM not the UAW.
Vastly inacurate either way.

It's amazing! A single post brings out both of the Union PEZ dispensers at once. Great original post.

It's amazing! A single post brings out both of the Union PEZ dispensers at once. Great original post.



:diva:

Great timing...

Even President Obama’s “car czar” Steven Rattner has admitted that the UAW should have made larger concessions on wages

It amazes me every time Ratner is on TV or some form of commentary. I mean, the guy is held in a fair bit of reverence for being at the center of some particularly terrible public policy initiatives including the UAW bailout and Cahs for Clunkers. Of course, none of this happens absent, that's right;

GM and Chrysler instead asked Washington for a taxpayer bailout. The Bush Administration used the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) to loan GM and Chrysler enough money to stay operational for the first several months of the Obama presidency.

...a GOP president bails out, opens Pandora's box, hands permission to Obama, to go down a path that flies in the face of ANY free market concept let alone fairness or common sense. A GOP president bails out one of the biggest and most long standing opponents the party claims to have.

And there sits Ford, having made all the tough calls, the challenging choices, to not need help and they were essentially forced to show up with their hat in hand as well to provide cover for GM and Bush.

This is a classic, stunning reversal of the turtle and the hare story.

This is why we are now, primarily, a socialist nation. Imagine how well we would be doing now had GM simply had to do what they had to do. Same for Wall Street. Same for us all.

:shrug: