(This is a bit lengthy but well worth the time to read this info)


The Biggest Cover-Up in American History
By: Amil Imani with James H. Hyde

In this article we will prove beyond all doubt that Barack Hussein Obama is not a natural born Citizen and is thus ineligible to be President of the United States.

The Biggest Cover-up in American History | Amil Imani (http://amilimani.com/2012/04/the-biggest-cover-up-in-american-history/)

Obama may be a "citizen". He's just not a "natural born" citizen.
See identifier chart:

Barack Obama -- Natural Born Citizen (http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm)

This birther nonsence is really funny. It amazes me that after bring disproven over and over that people still find new ways to "Trump" it up.

More conspiracy b.s.

In some ways it would be nice if the Supreme Court just took a case on the legal issue of what it means to be a "natural born citizen" to settle the issue once and for all.

The link makes a legal argument. The legal argument is that natural born citizen should be defined to me somebody born within the U.S. to parents who were both citizens (I am not exactly what the parents needed to be citizens of). The argument goes that the term "natural born citizen" was not part of the original draft, it was added during the debate process so it must have had specific meaning. The meaning that term had must have been that a natural born citizen was somebody born within the U.S. to parents who were both citizens because that was the prevailing understanding of that term in that period. The main piece of evidence for the existence of this prevailing understanding is a passage from the works of a Swiss political philosopher Emer de Vattel's influential book the Law of Nations that says roughly that natural born citizens are persons born in the country to parents who are citizens of the country.

To me the weakness of this argument at least as presented in the article is that there really wasn't much evidence presented that there existed a widespread understanding of natural born citizen. Instead the argument relies on inferences--for example that most of the founding fathers were educated at just a few universities and colleges and that De Vattel would have been widely read. There are no quotes from any of the founding fathers discussing the term or going into depth about De Vattel. In other words I did not find the evidence all that convincing. I do not want to imply that the argument is frivolous, but in order to be convincing to me, it needs more direct evidence and cannot rely so much upon inferences.

This birther nonsence is really funny. It amazes me that after bring disproven over and over that people still find new ways to "Trump" it up.

More conspiracy b.s.

Not really. There is a legal argument, not a factual argument that Obama wasn't born in the U.S.

As I said in my post above I didn't find that the writer presented much direct evidence to support his position, but its not a conspiracy theory.

This birther nonsence is really funny. It amazes me that after bring disproven over and over that people still find new ways to "Trump" it up.

More conspiracy b.s.

Relax. It's not hard to see how it could be true, that he was born elsewhere and it's not hard to see why some think it's a dumb rule and, if he moved to the US shortly thereafter, what's the big deal? He grew up in America, right? I mean, both sides disregard the constitution whenever it serves their interests anyway, right? So, why should this one ticky detail matter? I mean, hell. He did win the election so, it's not like he showed up and claimed it.

So, relax. Even if it is known and provable, the GOP has long since decided it doesn't matter even though, clearly, the way the president has handled this has done nothing but feed off of suspicion and create distrust.

So, it simply doesn't matter in a practical sense; the GOP ain't gonna push the issue.

Now, can we please get back to his policy and leadership failures at the job regardless of his technical qualifications to be eligible for it? America isn't suffering because George Bush was too conservative and we aren't suffering because of where Obama was born. We are suffering because of their leadership decisions.

:buddies:

Until tomorrow.....when someone else brings it up. Larry, I'm not uptight about it at all. It just amazes me that after all this time folks would still theorize or conjure up new ways to present an already disproven argument.

Dont you think that if we stopped focusing our energy on the conspiracies that we could finally begin coming together and focusing on how to fix things ?

America isn't suffering because George Bush was too conservative and we aren't suffering because of where Obama was born. We are suffering because of their leadership decisions.

:buddies:

You are correct, however you would not believe the number of people I know that said Bush was too conservative. Many people equate conservative with religious.

This birther nonsence is really funny. It amazes me that [idiotic Obama voters like me still believe his lies and drink the cool aid] over and over...
:fixed: :smack:

Spell check: nonsense, being disproven.

If you are going to join this discussion, at least act like an adult.

Until tomorrow.....when someone else brings it up. Larry, I'm not uptight about it at all. It just amazes me that after all this time folks would still theorize or conjure up new ways to present an already disproven argument.

Dont you think that if we stopped focusing our energy on the conspiracies that we could finally begin coming together and focusing on how to fix things ?

I would like to hear you say that it is at least plausible and, for damn sure, Obama has handled it like someone with something to hide. :shrug:

Besides, cover ups are cover ups because there was enough plausible denialbility. Until there wasn't any more.

Dont you think that if we stopped focusing our energy on the conspiracies that we could finally begin coming together and focusing on how to fix things ?

No and hell no. Just exactly in whose interest, among those with the power and the position, is it to 'fix' anything? Pick an issue. Any major issue of our day and it is simple to illustrate WHY it is so ####ed up and why it won't get fixed.

For instance; THE problem with health care is limited competition. Drives up cost, reduces service. The R's solution is medical savings accounts so $1,000 of service that should cost $200 won't have to have taxes paid on it thus 'reducing' the $1,000 to $1,100 next year instead of it going to $1,300. Point being their constituents in healthcare have ZERO interest in actual reduction of what they get out of it.

The D solution is to give health care away so that the $1,000 cost goes down to $1,400 next year. Just not out of Paul's pocket. Peter and Mary will make up the difference. They're rich. And, as long as they are in the health care field, they don't really give a #### anyway because they'll get their cut out of the increases.

:shrug:

If you are going to join this discussion, at least act like an adult.
You should stick to the topic but I know you libs have nothing valid to contribute so you go off topic.

If you voted for or stick up for the obamination, you really shouldn't be posting here. Want to compare our ages?

You are correct, however you would not believe the number of people I know that said Bush was too conservative. Many people equate conservative with religious.

Well, since you bring it up...that is my strongest objection to the Tea Party. I imagine on some level, it is for most people on the political spectrum. The far right wing has for years been dominated by Christian fundamentalists (we took the "fun" out of religion). It didn't take long for the Tea Party to start looking like the same thing only more concentrated.

I was ready to raise the Gadsden flag, buy the bumper stickers and the t-shirts and start traipsing off to rallies....until a lot of them started defining their conservative values in terms the 700 club set could relate to.

what's the big deal? He grew up in America, right?

Hawaii which is technically part of America but doesn't have the American heritage and Indonesia which isn't part of America

Relax. It's not hard to see how it could be true, that he was born elsewhere and it's not hard to see why some think it's a dumb rule and, if he moved to the US shortly thereafter, what's the big deal? He grew up in America, right? I mean, both sides disregard the constitution whenever it serves their interests anyway, right? So, why should this one ticky detail matter? I mean, hell. He did win the election so, it's not like he showed up and claimed it.

So, relax. Even if it is known and provable, the GOP has long since decided it doesn't matter even though, clearly, the way the president has handled this has done nothing but feed off of suspicion and create distrust.

So, it simply doesn't matter in a practical sense; the GOP ain't gonna push the issue.

Now, can we please get back to his policy and leadership failures at the job regardless of his technical qualifications to be eligible for it? America isn't suffering because George Bush was too conservative and we aren't suffering because of where Obama was born. We are suffering because of their leadership decisions.

:buddies:

And here, this post, is a prime example of why this country is in the sorry state it is.

It does matter. The Constitution does matter. With attitudes of "Take it easy" and "it simply doesn't matter in a practical sense" no wonder our country is in the toilet.

The United States is suffering because the people did not rise up when the First Congress first stepped on the Constitution and drag the Representatives and Senators into the streets of Philadelphia, tar and feather them, and run them out of town on a rail. Then they should have held a special election and elected new Representatives and Senators. Maybe then, the Congress would pay attention to the Constitution.

And here, this post, is a prime example of why this country is in the sorry state it is.

It does matter. The Constitution does matter. With attitudes of "Take it easy" and "it simply doesn't matter in a practical sense" no wonder our country is in the toilet.

The United States is suffering because the people did not rise up when the First Congress first stepped on the Constitution and drag the Representatives and Senators into the streets of Philadelphia, tar and feather them, and run them out of town on a rail. Then they should have held a special election and elected new Representatives and Senators. Maybe then, the Congress would pay attention to the Constitution.

I agree with you on the former but not the later. The constitution ONLY matters in context of what can be gotten around be it what you describe about the first congress or Lincoln or Wilson or FDR or Dubbya or, now Obama.

The founders did their best to bequeath a document, a set of rules composed of the best of all the words prior government attempts. It's a thing of beauty and, om paper, works like a charm. However, it started with a fatal flaw all other systems also suffered from; we are still talking about human beings.

Your answer to all this is eternal conflict and violence because had folks done as you suggest in the first congress, they'd have then needed to do it for the second. Then the third and so on. You seek perfection and absolute fealty, as you see it, that, as a Christian, you know, by definition, to be impossible. You've got your own conflict right there. We're talking about people. About ourselves. All government can ever hope to do, all religion can ever hope to do, is to find as many happy mediums as possible, make as many compromises as possible to minimize disorder and suffering as much as possible. Based on what is possible with people, both the good we can attain and the bad.

No one actually wants perfection and you know it and the only people that are 100% pure about rules and societal order are the ones that don't want anything. I don't know any of them. Not conservatives. Not liberals. Not moderates. It's all about muddling along as best you, and we can.

The arguments and debates we have today have, change the names and some of the specifics of the issues, happened in our history, US history, before. Several times. In fact, pretty much on going. We just think it's 'worst of all time' because it's happening to us, in our time.

You should take heart in that.

Hawaii which is technically part of America but doesn't have the American heritage and Indonesia which isn't part of America

:lol:

Yeah, and Alabama and Maine share...an afternoon at Little Round Top?

I agree with you on the former but not the later. The constitution ONLY matters in context of what can be gotten around be it what you describe about the first congress or Lincoln or Wilson or FDR or Dubbya or, now Obama.

The founders did their best to bequeath a document, a set of rules composed of the best of all the words prior government attempts. It's a thing of beauty and, om paper, works like a charm. However, it started with a fatal flaw all other systems also suffered from; we are still talking about human beings.

Your answer to all this is eternal conflict and violence because had folks done as you suggest in the first congress, they'd have then needed to do it for the second. Then the third and so on. You seek perfection and absolute fealty, as you see it, that, as a Christian, you know, by definition, to be impossible. You've got your own conflict right there. We're talking about people. About ourselves. All government can ever hope to do, all religion can ever hope to do, is to find as many happy mediums as possible, make as many compromises as possible to minimize disorder and suffering as much as possible. Based on what is possible with people, both the good we can attain and the bad.

No one actually wants perfection and you know it and the only people that are 100% pure about rules and societal order are the ones that don't want anything. I don't know any of them. Not conservatives. Not liberals. Not moderates. It's all about muddling along as best you, and we can.

The arguments and debates we have today have, change the names and some of the specifics of the issues, happened in our history, US history, before. Several times. In fact, pretty much on going. We just think it's 'worst of all time' because it's happening to us, in our time.

You should take heart in that.
We disagree, but what is unusual about that.

While people may be willing to put up with whatever compromise they feel needed in order to have some semblance of safety, Franklin expressed it very well.They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania (1759)

Jefferson advocated that the people should rise up in rebellion when the government violated the confines of the Constitution."What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." --Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787. ME 6:373, Papers 12:356

Compromising the Constitution is giving up essential liberty. We are getting what we have asked for; servitude to our tyrannical task masters.

In regard to Christianity, I do seek perfection. While One is presently perfect, He will return to reign and then there will be perfect rule. I believe His rule is coming far more quickly than most people imagine or wish.

We disagree, but what is unusual about that. About as unusual as you not reading all I wrote and only reading part; not at all.

While people may be willing to put up with whatever compromise they feel needed in order to have some semblance of safety, Franklin expressed it very well. That would be the part I agree with.

Jefferson advocated that the people should rise up in rebellion when the government violated the confines of the Constitution.

Compromising the Constitution is giving up essential liberty. We are getting what we have asked for; servitude to our tyrannical task masters. Oh, look! I agree with that as well!

In regard to Christianity, I do seek perfection. While One is presently perfect, He will return to reign and then there will be perfect rule. I believe His rule is coming far more quickly than most people imagine or wish.

That's great! Perfect rule is just around the corner! Sounds like a campaign slogan. If someone else was going to do the work for me, for us all, I would find that completely debilitating; the end of man. The end of free will.

Hmmm...

That's great! Perfect rule is just around the corner! Sounds like a campaign slogan. If someone else was going to do the work for me, for us all, I would find that completely debilitating; the end of man. The end of free will.

Hmmm...
I read everything you posted in reply to me. Don't denigrate me.

No!. It is only through use of free will making the choice to do things God's way that anyone will even be part of the millennial rule of Christ.

That is an absolute delineation between people of all nations; Christian / not a Christian. As a Christian I know that man was created to be perfect and live forever and was given free will to choose to love God. Without free will and the choice to love, love is meaningless. Eve and Adam chose to not obey God. They got tossed out of the Garden of Eden. We suffer the same problem; we choose not to do things God's way. The universe is God's creation. Just as you plant a flower and have the absolute right to destroy that flower, God has the same right to destroy, remake, or preserve His creation. You are partially right; when Christ comes to rule, it will be the end of the ability to choose for those of mankind that have chosen not to follow Him during their earthly life.

I read everything you posted in reply to me. Don't denigrate me.

.

You dismiss out of hand half of what I wrote even though I agreed with you and you feel denigrated? :lol: I think thou protest-eth too much.

So, again, I agree with you that disregarding the constitution is why where aren't in all that great of shape these days which leads me to disagreeing that the constitution actually matters. From Lincoln to Wilson to FDR, LBJ, Nixon and on to Bush 43 and Obama; all the constitution has been is something to get around and I think you know that. Should it matter? I think so. Does it? Of course not.

It really doesn't matter anymore with this anti-Constitution jerk in office. He is doing anything he wants, Constitution and laws be damned. Executive order, no sweat. Especially if it violates our laws.

Doesn't matter to him or any liberal - as long as they get what they want.

Stand up, America. Fight this guy and his.

And, just in case, lock and load.......