Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller (http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/09/report-83-percent-of-doctors-have-considered-quitting-over-obamacare/)

No news here. My doctor in a health care practice has told me that for the last two years, and the other 9 doctors in the office have the same feelings.

If the job doesn't pay for all the sacrifice, work, education and cost, paperwork and government regulation already, why bother with the future horrors?

This is great news,
now Shanaynay and Toquisha will have a place to go after they graduate the 1 year affirmative action medical school.

This is great news,
now Shanaynay and Toquisha will have a place to go after they graduate the 1 year affirmative action medical school.

Are you sure that just a semester will not qualify them? Plus two weeks at a homeless shelter as interns?

Are you sure that just a semester will not qualify them? Plus two weeks at a homeless shelter as interns?

Im sure there will be waivers.
the experience area of the application will now include, Massive training, intership, x number of years practical experience, or
trainable.

Im sure there will be waivers.
the experience area of the application will now include, Massive training, intership, x number of years practical experience, or
trainable.

As long as either one of them do not have to be "punished with a baby".....

The horror! The horror! With the Prez in Chief of health care ruling......

Where's Giantone........ those idiot republican doctors! :mad:

Where's Giantone........ those idiot republican doctors! :mad:

Or he can explain how the doctors leaving because of obamacare is all the fault of President Bush and the republican congress prior to 2006

Or he can explain how the doctors leaving because of obamacare is all the fault of President Bush and the republican congress prior to 2006



No,all he'll say is it's a BS GOP blog,that you will take as fact,I think your sheets are getting in the way of your reading.:killingme

No,all he'll say is it's a BS GOP blog,that you will take as fact,I think your sheets are getting in the way of your reading.:killingme
If you'd actually read the article you'd have seen survey link, since that's to difficult for that pea brain of yours let me do it. Physician Attitudes Survey - June 2012 | Doctor Patient Medical Association (http://www.doctorsandpatients.org/resources/85-physician-attitudes-survey-june-2012)
Is this another one of those little facts that your going to laugh off because you have to realize by now that it's making you look like a (pardon the term) retard.

The Doctor Patient Medical Association, "Non-partisan"?!?! :roflmao:

The Doctor Patient Medical Association, "Non-partisan"?!?! :roflmao:
Like you've ever heard of them before. :rolleyes:

No,all he'll say is it's a BS GOP blog,that you will take as fact,I think your sheets are getting in the way of your reading.:killingme

Sheets?? He's a democrat??

I never would have guessed...

Like you've ever heard of them before. :rolleyes:

Obviously I've heard more about them than Sally Nelson has.

Non-partisan. :killingme

Obviously I've heard more about them than Sally Nelson has.

Non-partisan. :killingme
I'm sure you have. :bigwhoop:

This is laughable.

"Man! I am pissed and I ain't a gonna take it no' mo! I am leaving my $250,000 a year income and going to truck driving school like I always really wanted to! #### those people! They're not the boss of me!! I can do without the 4th car and I don't need both vacation homes. Getting tired of snow skiing anyway!"

The ONLY people who might give it up are those who are already close to quitting anyway. They'll get paid. The system will grow to be even more Too Big To Fail and they'll get paid.

What next? Leaving the country with Alec Baldwin and Rush Limbaugh???

:drama:

:slam:


:lmao:

I'm sure you have. :bigwhoop:

Do you honestly believe they're a non-partisan organization?

Do you honestly believe they're a non-partisan organization?
Maybe, maybe not, what I really don't believe is that you'd ever heard of them before this article.

Maybe, maybe not, what I really don't believe is that you'd ever heard of them before this article.

Ahhhh. :lol: Glad you're keeping focus on what matters. It seems I know more about them than you do, if you're still not sure if they're non-partisan. You should read up on them, then come back and let me know if you've decided yet.

This is laughable.

"Man! I am pissed and I ain't a gonna take it no' mo! I am leaving my $250,000 a year income and going to truck driving school like I always really wanted to! #### those people! They're not the boss of me!! I can do without the 4th car and I don't need both vacation homes. Getting tired of snow skiing anyway!"

The ONLY people who might give it up are those who are already close to quitting anyway. They'll get paid. The system will grow to be even more Too Big To Fail and they'll get paid.

What next? Leaving the country with Alec Baldwin and Rush Limbaugh???

:drama:

:slam:


:lmao:
first, the 250k a year income might not come under the new giveabrothasomemofree#### health care plan.
second, who in their right mind would become a doctor when the pay is not exactly that good.
Its already getting a bit tight with the limited number of doctors in a given area, so what happens if lets say even the old ones give it up while less new qualified people are coming into the field

This is laughable.

"Man! I am pissed and I ain't a gonna take it no' mo! I am leaving my $250,000 a year income and going to truck driving school like I always really wanted to! #### those people! They're not the boss of me!! I can do without the 4th car and I don't need both vacation homes. Getting tired of snow skiing anyway!"

The ONLY people who might give it up are those who are already close to quitting anyway. They'll get paid. The system will grow to be even more Too Big To Fail and they'll get paid.

What next? Leaving the country with Alec Baldwin and Rush Limbaugh???

:drama:

:slam:


:lmao:Wow... this is the most ignorant post I believe I've ever seen from you, Larry. I'm stunned.

Wow... this is the most ignorant post I believe I've ever seen from you, Larry. I'm stunned.

I think I have larry figured out, actually have for some time now,
He is an obamanite
He did not vote for Ron Paul last time, or did he have plans to do so this time, he cast his vote then, as he will in November, for obama

But wait you say, all that talk about Ron Paul, he had to be serious right? NO.
he thinks (wrongly) that people actually would base their decision on what he says, so he figures that by backing Ron Paul verbally, he could get others to vote Paul, and by doing so, throw away a vote for America, and give an edge to obama.

It is by all standards and by most issues very clear that larry leans so far left that he actually has to look right to see obama.

so, take what he says in stride and for what it is really worth, laugh, agree, argue, whatever, but just remember a vote for anyone but a republican this time around (even if it is Mitt) is a wasted vote. Those like larry that love obama so much that they even sleep with an anatomically correct obama doll at night, will never really consider anything but the socialist vote.

Just my opinion based on comments.

I think I have larry figured out, actually have for some time now,
He is an obamanite
He did not vote for Ron Paul last time, or did he have plans to do so this time, he cast his vote then, as he will in November, for obama

But wait you say, all that talk about Ron Paul, he had to be serious right? NO.
he thinks (wrongly) that people actually would base their decision on what he says, so he figures that by backing Ron Paul verbally, he could get others to vote Paul, and by doing so, throw away a vote for America, and give an edge to obama.

It is by all standards and by most issues very clear that larry leans so far left that he actually has to look right to see obama.

so, take what he says in stride and for what it is really worth, laugh, agree, argue, whatever, but just remember a vote for anyone but a republican this time around (even if it is Mitt) is a wasted vote. Those like larry that love obama so much that they even sleep with an anatomically correct obama doll at night, will never really consider anything but the socialist vote.

Just my opinion based on comments.

I’m not sure if you’re being facetious or not, but I’ll assume you’re being serious…

If you think Larry is a liberal then you don't get Larry.

Wow... this is the most ignorant post I believe I've ever seen from you, Larry. I'm stunned.

THAT is saying something!!!

:yahoo:

You will, I am sure, not like that I know doctors, personally, and that is absolutely what they say about it; no one is going to quit being a doctor over this.

A couple of them (when you know one doctor, you get to know several more pretty quick) actually think ObamaCare will help some. You'd be shocked how much garbage doctors have to put up with and they know where all the enormous waste is but, there is no practical way around it unless you are actually willing to quit and go be a truck driver. So, they know the system is an enormous #### sammitch and ObamaCare is yet another ridiculous layer of mess to pile on but, they are very practical people and know the mess is NOT going to be fixed because no one wants it, not really so, a little bit better #### sammitch would be fine.

Same goes for union members.
Same goes for government employees of any type including contractors.
Same for any group of people that prosper by sticking together.

People simply are not going to take serious steps to reduce waste and fraud because it will spell the end of their own careers, their benefits, their retirement. You hang with the gang or you hang. Nothing new here.

That's what sucks about being in the private sector and a small time operation; no system to help out. You sink or swim, every day. That's why health care will never be fixed by the one thing that would fix it; competition. Not very many people actually want that.

first, the 250k a year income might not come under the new giveabrothasomemofree#### health care plan.
second, who in their right mind would become a doctor when the pay is not exactly that good.
Its already getting a bit tight with the limited number of doctors in a given area, so what happens if lets say even the old ones give it up while less new qualified people are coming into the field

Yeah. It may well go up to $300,000 and for the reasons you state. Reduced supply does not equal reduced cost. Sure, there will be bytvhing and isolated problems but, on the whole, doctor income will NOT go down because of this.

I applaud you and your work career that you think $250k ain't all that. :buddies:

ObamaCare is going to increase health care costs. It just is. There will be more money in the system than ever before. Why, or how, anyone thinks it is actually going to bring down costs is well beyond my comprehension. Not that costs were going to go down without it but, you see the obvious?

Its not so much the current doctors quitting that concerns me, its the question of how many will now choose other professions instead.
I predict a whole bunch of Vets.

I think I have larry figured out, actually have for some time now,
He is an obamanite :lmao:
He did not vote for Ron Paul last time, Did too! or did he have plans to do so this time, he cast his vote then, as he will in November, for obama

But wait you say, all that talk about Ron Paul, he had to be serious right? NO.
he thinks (wrongly) that people actually would base their decision on what he says, Uh, no. It seems obvious to me that a good many folks TOTALLY disagree with me. so he figures that by backing Ron Paul verbally, he could get others to vote Paul, and by doing so, throw away a vote for America, and give an edge to obama. Earth to bcp; Ron Paul lost. By miles. And miles. He has been roundly rejected by voters. Just is. Sorry you didn't get the memo.

It is by all standards and by most issues very clear that larry leans so far left that he actually has to look right to see obama. You high, brah. Or, you have an interesting view of what left and right actually are.

so, take what he says in stride and for what it is really worth, laugh, agree, argue, whatever, but just remember a vote for anyone but a republican this time around (even if it is Mitt) is a wasted vote. Those like larry that love obama so much that they even sleep with an anatomically correct obama doll at night, Seek help. You have issues. will never really consider anything but the socialist vote.

Just my opinion based on comments.

It is with great pleasure I stack up my words against your opinion most every day and on most issues.

:buddies:

I’m not sure if you’re being facetious or not, but I’ll assume you’re being serious…

If you think Larry is a liberal then you don't get Larry.

:buddies:

A couple of them (when you know one doctor, you get to know several more pretty quick) actually think ObamaCare will help some. You'd be shocked how much garbage doctors have to put up with and they know where all the enormous waste is but,

[but right now they still get a decent salary]

So, they know the system is an enormous #### sammitch and ObamaCare is yet another ridiculous layer of mess to pile on but, they are very practical people and know the mess is NOT going to be fixed because no one wants it, not really so, a little bit better #### sammitch would be fine.





as I see it - all will be fine and dandy for a few yrs, but as this program rolls on, and money gets tighter, and the 'crats in washington start limiting how much they pay out, waiting times get longer and cost go up, the Doc's start bring home less and less they will get out

and we will be left with the imports from 3rd world countries where $ 50 per yr is a great salary ......

Do you honestly believe they're a non-partisan organization?

They are about as non-partisan as the AMA :yay:

as I see it - all will be fine and dandy for a few yrs, but as this program rolls on, and money gets tighter, and the 'crats in washington start limiting how much they pay out, waiting times get longer and cost go up, the Doc's start bring home less and less they will get out

and we will be left with the imports from 3rd world countries where $ 50 per yr is a great salary ......

I think you sorely underestimate the power of the medical health/industrial complex. It's an industry nearly as big as the entire federal budget.

I mean, honestly. Why do you think we have such enormous problems in health care now, the expense, the poor service, the untouchable nature of the thing? Because they don't have much political clout?

Is food anywhere near as protected? Nope. Lots and lots of competition.
How about housing/shelter? That sector has lost TRILLIONS.
Clothing? Same thing, tons of competition.

Health care alone has achieved the status as a RIGHT. You have to pay for your own food, clothing and shelter, by and large. Not so health care. Most people do NOT pay for it.

What would happen to food, shelter and clothing if we treated it like health care? Costs would explode and quality and service would go down.

Again, I think your very much underestimate the power of that industry. It's far larger and stronger than even the military/industrial complex because it is way more bi-partisan.

The GOP will quietly give up on repeal after they have their little show vote because their constituents are about to be handed an ENORMOUS raise. People don't quit that.

:shrug:

Its not so much the current doctors quitting that concerns me, its the question of how many will now choose other professions instead.
I predict a whole bunch of Vets.


You'll lose more with Mitt....




As the nation’s economy grew and the median income rose, under Romney, Massachusetts plummeted from 36th to 47th out of 50 states in job creation, and the median income declined:whistle:

You'll lose more with Mitt....

As the nation’s economy grew and the median income rose, under Romney, Massachusetts plummeted from 36th to 47th out of 50 states in job creation, and the median income declined:whistle:

You got this from Obama's ad-full-o-lies:

FactCheck.org : Obama Twists Romney’s Economic Record (http://factcheck.org/2012/06/obama-twists-romneys-economic-record/)

A new ad from the Obama campaign takes aim at Mitt Romney’s performance as governor of Massachusetts, claiming he had “one of the worst economic records in the country.” But the ad overreaches with several of its claims.

- The ad states that job creation in Massachusetts “fell” to 47th under Romney. That’s a bit misleading. Massachusetts’ state ranking for job growth went from 50th the year before he took office, to 28th in his final year. It was 47th for the whole of his four-year tenure, but it was improving, not declining, when he left.

Here are a couple more nifty little facts that Obama tried to spin the truth about:

- The ad claims that Romney raised taxes on the middle class. It’s true that Romney imposed a number of fees, but none of them targeted middle-income persons. Also, Romney proposed cutting the state income tax three times — a measure that would have resulted in tax cuts for all taxpayers — but he was rebuffed every time by the state’s Democratic Legislature.

- The ad claims that when Romney was governor, “Massachusetts lost 40,000 manufacturing jobs, a rate twice the national average.” That’s close to true, but the state lost a greater number of manufacturing jobs in the four years before Romney took office, and more in the four years after he left. In fact, the rate of job loss in manufacturing slowed during Romney’s time as governor.

You'll lose more with Mitt....




:
Not if he can get rid of obamacare. and even still, I don't think we have to fear losing our freedom wit Mitt, obama is a totally different store.

Not if he can get rid of obamacare. and even still, I don't think we have to fear losing our freedom wit Mitt, obama is a totally different store.

Until a few weeks ago, only one of those people had fully implemented a healthcare mandate on citizens. Your mental gymnastics are impressive, I'll give you that. Or, do you honestly think Mitt is going to become something he has not been in his political career?

Seriously.

Until a few weeks ago, only one of those people had fully implemented a healthcare mandate on citizens. Your mental gymnastics are impressive, I'll give you that. Or, do you honestly think Mitt is going to become something he has not been in his political career?

Seriously.

hopefully, Romney understand the difference between states rights and the Federal governments rights. States might have the right to do something like that, the feds do not.
Another point, Romney says he will repeal obamacare, obama says obamacare is here to stay.
Do I 100% believe Romney? no Do I 100% believe that obama will try and keep the obamacare alive? yes.
So, right now the only choice is to go with the guy that might be a liar, instead of the one that I assume is telling the truth.

Once obamacare is in full swing, it will be almost impossible to get rid of it.

however, what I do think Romney has in mind is to repeal obamacare as it stands, but I also suspect he is going to try and come up with something else in its place. Maybe like, keeping the parts where you can keep the kids on until they are grandparents, (or something like that) or the part where you cant be refused due to existing conditions. But I also think that the current companies out there could be persuaded to change their policy and comply.
At any rate, with all the social programs already in place, Im pretty much tapped out when it comes to Give-A-F over someone elses self induced sucky life. I dont care if the welfare momma has health insurance or not. Keep her healthy and she can keep having kids, she gets sick and the kids stop flowing. Its a beautiful thing.

Do I 100% believe Romney? no Do I 100% believe that obama will try and keep the obamacare alive? yes.
So, right now the only choice is to go with the guy that might be a liar, instead of the one that I assume is telling the truth.

So, you know Romney is a lying liar and you'd vote for him anyways with the hope that the Etch-a-Sketch won't be shaken up on the road to Pennsylvania Avenue?

That's the most laughable thing I've seen all day. :roflmao:

So, you know Romney is a lying liar and you'd vote for him anyways with the hope that the Etch-a-Sketch won't be shaken up on the road to Pennsylvania Avenue?

That's the most laughable thing I've seen all day. :roflmao:

you have a choice of two doors.
door A has behind it certain death
door B has behind it,, a chance to not be killed
which door do you take.

hopefully...

I thought we tried that?

I thought we tried that?

what we tried, or I should say others besides me tried, was the whole Hopey Changey thing.
we know that is no good, so now its time to try something else.

sooner or later someone as to run that understands what America is.

sooner or later someone as to run that understands what America is.



:wah:

:wah:

I do find it sad that so many like you, have no clue what made America great.
hint, it was not trying to be socialist.

you have a choice of two doors.
door A has behind it certain death
door B has behind it,, a chance to not be killed
which door do you take.

That's how you see it. That's now how I see it.

You're pretty much saying you don't know which Willard Romney you're going to get (since he has approximately seven positions on every single issue) but he doesn't have a D next to his name so you'll vote for him?

That makes about as much sense as voting for Obama in 2008 because he's not Bush (who wasn't on the ballot). :yay:

That's how you see it. That's now how I see it.

You're pretty much saying you don't know which Willard Romney you're going to get (since he has approximately seven positions on every single issue) but he doesn't have a D next to his name so you'll vote for him?

That makes about as much sense as voting for Obama in 2008 because he's not Bush (who wasn't on the ballot). :yay:

has nothing to do with the d, it has to do with after 4 years we know that bammy is a socialist POS that has no respect for the constitution.
Run another d in his place and I might consider them if they promise to get the hell out of my wallet.

has nothing to do with the d, it has to do with after 4 years we know that bammy is a socialist POS that has no respect for the constitution.
Run another d in his place and I might consider them if they promise to get the hell out of my wallet.

Dude, Obama and Romney are exactly the same. The only difference between them is their skin color. :lol:

Voting for Romney and hoping he'll be different from Bush and Obama is like voting for Obama and hoping he'll suddenly become a fiscal conservative. :lol:

Obama is basically Bush 44.

Let me ask you a question, bcp.

Who was the grand architect of "Obamacare"?

Let me ask you a question, bcp.

Who was the grand architect of "Obamacare"?

Who also said that such laws should be left up to each state and not be pushed on the entire country by federal mandate?

Who also said that such laws should be up to each state and pushed on the entire country by federal mandate?

After he said there should be a federal mandate :roflmao:

BbLTovqG29g

After he said there should be a federal mandate :roflmao:

BbLTovqG29g

Did you even watch the video you posted? He said nothing in this video about a federal mandate. He did say in this video it should be based on PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, help people (not force people) buy their own PRIVATE insurance, NOT WITH A GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER, NOT WITH NEW TAXES, a free-market-based system, no more free rides. This is the antithesis of Obamacare.

Look I know Romney is on record as saying he believes there should be a federal level program. Maybe he changed his mind. Maybe he's in his etch-a-sketch phase. He is against Obamacare and says he will repeal it. Personally I don’t trust Romney. I’m only pointing out that he has stated over and over that this stuff should be handled at the state level.

Did you even watch the video you posted? He said nothing in this video about a federal mandate. He did say in this video it should be based on PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, help people (not force people) buy their own PRIVATE insurance, NOT WITH A GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER, NOT WITH NEW TAXES, a free-market-based system, no more free rides. This is the antithesis of Obamacare.

Look I know Romney is on record as saying he believes there should be a federal level program. Maybe he changed his mind. He is against Obamacare and says he will repeal it. Personally I don’t trust Romney. I’m only pointing out that he has stated over and over that this stuff should be handled at the state level.

He said they need to do what he did in Massachusetts, which is, an individual mandate.

Here's more:

Romney to Obama, 2009: Embrace the Individual Mandate - Kate Hicks (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katehicks/2012/03/02/romney_to_obama_2009_embrace_the_individual_mandate)

Further Proof Romney Supported a National Individual Mandate In 2009 | RedState (http://www.redstate.com/erick/2012/03/03/further-proof-romney-supported-a-national-individual-mandate-in-2009/)

Romney’s 2009 advice for ObamaCare (http://www.wnd.com/2012/03/romneys-2009-advice-for-obamacare/)

I could do this all night. :killingme

Romney supported the individual mandate until it was politically popular to run against the individual mandate.

He said they need to do what he did in Massachusetts, which is, an individual mandate.





at the state level ........... NOT a FEDERAL Mandate ........ But a State one

at the state level ........... NOT a FEDERAL Mandate ........ But a State one

Refresh. He wrote an editorial in 2009 supporting a federal mandate. And those links come from your beloved sites Townhall, WND and RedState which are not even close to liberal media.

He said they need to do what he did in Massachusetts, which is, an individual mandate.

Here's more:

Romney to Obama, 2009: Embrace the Individual Mandate - Kate Hicks (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katehicks/2012/03/02/romney_to_obama_2009_embrace_the_individual_mandate)

Further Proof Romney Supported a National Individual Mandate In 2009 | RedState (http://www.redstate.com/erick/2012/03/03/further-proof-romney-supported-a-national-individual-mandate-in-2009/)

Romney’s 2009 advice for ObamaCare (http://www.wnd.com/2012/03/romneys-2009-advice-for-obamacare/)

I could do this all night. :killingme

Romney supported the individual mandate until it was politically popular to run against the individual mandate.

You obviously didn't read my whole post. :ohwell:

Romney CURRENTLY is against Obamacare and says he will repeal it. He is on record for advocating certain mandates that do not include a tax penalty for not obtaining health insurance. He is also on record for saying these sorts of things should be handled at the state level. So, I am agreeing with you to a degree. Romney is all over the place on this, and I am on record mulitple times as not trusting Romney.

When comparing Obama to Romney I hold no water for either. I trust neither. They are virtually the same to me. All I can say is what Romney is saying now is he against Obamacare and he feels it should be at the state level. I anxiously await his next etch-a-sketch moment.

You obviously didn't read my whole post. :ohwell:

Romney CURRENTLY is against Obamacare and says he will repeal it. He is on record for advocating certain mandates that do not include a tax penalty for not obtaining health insurance. He is also on record for saying these sorts of things should be handled at the state level. So, I am agreeing with you to a degree. Romney is all over the place on this, and I am on record mulitple times as not trusting Romney.

When comparing Obama to Romney I hold no water for either. I trust neither. They are virtually the same to me. All I can say is what Romney is saying now is he against Obamacare and he feels it should be at the state level. I anxiously await his next etch-a-sketch moment.

He has also gone on record, multiple times, advocating a FEDERAL mandate.

Right now, since a mandate is unpopular, he's against it. But, he was before federal mandates up until the day he announced he was running for president again. This comment about mandates should be done on a state level is his way of trying to have it both ways... just like his campaign saying that Obamacare is a tax increase on every American, but once his campaign was grilled about Romneycare, they came out and said it's not a tax increase.

He is all over the place on every issue. He spent YEARS criticizing the auto bailouts and blasting Obama for it. Then, one morning, he woke up and decided that, not only did he support the auto bailouts, he was the grand architect of it. If, in four months, it turned out the majority of Americans turned around and supported "Obamacare", he'd come out in record time and take all the credit for it. That's what he does.

A lot of insurance companies have said they are going to offer insurance to dependants until they are 26, regardless of how the law plays out. Yup, now that it's out there. Then, rates will work up to cover that.

30% of people under the age of 26 are uninsured....and as a whole that population is fairly healthy. Very healthy and CHEAP to service.

I didn't fact check these numbers but here is an example from CNN:

How much it will cost: Insurers must treat all dependents the same, regardless of age. That means that companies cannot jack up costs or limit coverage for the under-26 group. Until the gummint quietly lets them do so

Parents will face a 0.7% increase in insurance premiums, across the board, for adding dependents to their plans, according to HHS. That will rise by an additional 1% in 2012 and in 2013. "[E]ither ... stockholders or consumers" will shoulder that extra cost, HHS said in its report. Until the gummint quietly decides they need more

For those who enroll in the dependent coverage, the average policy will cost $3,380 for each dependent in 2011; $3,500 in 2012; and $3,690 in 2013, according to HHS's mid-range estimates. Those extra costs are tax-deductible. A kid can get covered, basic, decent, all they need insurance for about $1,200 a year now. That's not a gun. They're just happy to see us.

Health care dependents: Extending parent coverage to age 26 - May. 12, 2010 (http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/12/news/economy/health_care_dependents/index.htm)

That article says in 2011 that is 30% is 1.2 million people (multiply that by $3,380 = $4,056,000,000).

Think about those 30% that were uninsured before, they went to the ER and we got to pay for a lot of them. Now they are insured. If it ends up their parents pay that cost- good, they are their kids, not mine and I shouldn't have to pay for them. If that means the parents make the kids pay for it or encourage the kids to get a good job that has benefits, I'm all good with that as well. Whatever it takes for them to stay out of my pocket!

IMHO, I don't think this part of the law is a bad thing.

And ER's would start crying about loss of revenue and the need for more money or to limit services and, viola, mo' money!

:yahoo:

He has also gone on record, multiple times, advocating a FEDERAL mandate.

Right now, since a mandate is unpopular, he's against it. But, he was before federal mandates up until the day he announced he was running for president again. This comment about mandates should be done on a state level is his way of trying to have it both ways... just like his campaign saying that Obamacare is a tax increase on every American, but once his campaign was grilled about Romneycare, they came out and said it's not a tax increase.

He is all over the place on every issue. He spent YEARS criticizing the auto bailouts and blasting Obama for it. Then, one morning, he woke up and decided that, not only did he support the auto bailouts, he was the grand architect of it. If, in four months, it turned out the majority of Americans turned around and supported "Obamacare", he'd come out in record time and take all the credit for it. That's what he does.

I think I more-or-less said this. :buddies:

For the record, I didn't vote for Romney. I don't want Romney. :shrug:

Im willing to bet that 90% of ALL workers have considered quitting their job at some time or another.

Think about those 30% that were uninsured before, they went to the ER and we got to pay for a lot of them..

That is a HUGE fallacy and yet remains quite a popular talking point, apparently. The actual number of those "30% uninsured" that a) even needed significant health care services and b) didn't simply pay for them out of pocket, is actually quite small.

I am one of those "30% uninsured" and quite intentionally so. I am not alone by any means; a lot of people that can operate a calculator have realized that spending 12 grand a year on health insurance to cover 2 grand a year in services received is beyond stupid. I can assure you my being uninsured has not cost you or anyone else one thin dime!

Canard - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/canard)

... a lot of people that can operate a calculator have realized that spending 12 grand a year on health insurance to cover 2 grand a year in services received is beyond stupid.



I have entertained this concept a number of times for my upcoming retirement, coming to the same conclusion. It's the fear of a catastrophic health event that I could not possibly afford keeps steering me back to insurance.

It's the fear of a catastrophic health event that I could not possibly afford keeps steering me back to insurance.

That's what high-deductible catastrophic insurance is for; I do keep that. It was at 5000 deductible for a while but then I increased that to 10000.

I know I've saved close to 100 grand over the last 12 or so years by not buying in to the "everyone must have health insurance" propaganda and using my noggin instead.

If someone gets health insurance "cheap or free" because its an employer-provided benefit then hey..good for them. I'm only addresing the situation for those like me that have to pay every penny out of own pocket.

I think I more-or-less said this. :buddies:

For the record, I didn't vote for Romney. I don't want Romney. :shrug:

I've said before that I would vote for Huntsman in a nanosecond. But Huntsman isn't a hardcore social conservative, isn't a hawk and didn't engage in the divisive rhetoric and name calling that Romney, Gingrich and Santorum engaged in so conservatives never looked at him, even though he was the most conservative guy in the race.

The numbers just don't work. A family of 4 paying $1500/month is $18K/year. At $50 flat fee for an appointment (which I previously stated, we have a higher profit margin on than an insured patient), that is 360 appointments!!

$2K for appointments (that is 40 appointments of 10 per person/family of 4 @ $50/each)
$6K for catastrophic coverage

$10K ahead of the game in this example as well, just as Gilligan said!

Exactly. Yet the pervasive "meme" is that full coverage health insurance is an absolute must..virtually a God-given right..people gasp in horror at the mere thought of going without. Like I've always done. It's the most bizarre misconceived notion I've seen in my lifetime..all the more bizarre because so many lemmings buy in to it.

Put another way..a very simple way: IF health insruance was a "good deal" for the payer...it would never - COULD never - exist in the first place. Just as a lottery that paid out more than it took in would never exist.

he is also on record for saying these sorts of things should be handled at the state level. So, i am agreeing with you to a degree. romney is all over the place on this, and i am on record mulitple times as not trusting romney.





this ................

Exactly. Yet the pervasive "meme" is that full coverage health insurance is an absolute must..virtually a God-given right..people gasp in horror at the mere thought of going without.





IIRC Larry Pointed out it is all Kaisers Fault ......... something about WWII and only being able to pay workers so much by Federal law during the war, so to attract workers Kaiser offered 'health insurance'

IIRC Larry Pointed out it is all Kaisers Fault ......... something about WWII and only being able to pay workers so much by Federal law during the war, so to attract workers Kaiser offered 'health insurance'

Yeah, Rachel Maddow talked about this on her program one night. Health insurance was offered as an incentive to get people to work for them since salaries were capped. It was a way for businesses to offer something extra.

I could have worded it better...and I don't disagree with you. I knew what I was thinking but didn't convey it well.

I agree, a very small percentage of that 30% actually need health care services and I apparently incorrectly assumed every one would know that if a person was going to the ER it was because they were in need of health care services.

I disagree with part b) , however can't back that up with hard facts (didn't look for them either), just my personal experience in conversations with a billing company. Most of the time they send a few letters, realize it is not going to be paid, write it off and move on. Don't toss good money after bad.


You aren't under 26, therefore you are not part of that 30%, therefore I can assure you that you have never cost me one thin dime either. Thanks, my pockets appreciate that!

If I weren't covered by my employer or I could waive my coverage, I'd do the same thing.

The numbers just don't work. A family of 4 paying $1500/month is $18K/year. At $50 flat fee for an appointment (which I previously stated, we have a higher profit margin on than an insured patient), that is 360 appointments!!

$2K for appointments (that is 40 appointments of 10 per person/family of 4 @ $50/each)
$6K for catastrophic coverage

$10K ahead of the game in this example as well, just as Gilligan said!

You have a valid point, but dont forget not all medical costs are just appts. Prescriptions and medical equipment can run those costs up pretty high too.