"The More Things Change, The More They Stay The Same"

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed, lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work instead of living on public assistance."
- Cicero , 55 BC

So, evidently we've learned nothing in the past 2,067 years.


I saw this today and thought is was worthy of a post on here.

I saw this today and thought is was worthy of a post on here.


Of course the Roman Empire lived on another 500 years after those conservative words from the Cicero of 55 BC.

Plus both Julius Caesar and the great Augusta Caesar rejected the orations of Cicero which is probably why Rome lasted so long thereafter.

And it is not really that the words are wrong - as the words are just being applied to the wrong side.

As like today the conservative Republicans who make similar claims when they are the ones who have been doing the opposite - as in their words being hypocritical.

:singer:

Of course the Roman Empire lived on another 500 years after those conservative words from the Cicero of 55 BC.

Plus both Julius Caesar and the great Augusta Caesar rejected the orations of Cicero which is probably why Rome lasted so long thereafter.

And it is not really that the words are wrong - as the words are just being applied to the wrong side.

As like today the conservative Republicans who make similar claims when they are the ones who have been doing the opposite - as in their words being hypocritical.

:singer:

The honest truth is that if you continue to give free things to people just because they exist, sooner or later you have to run out of money.
and that is a good portion of this countries problems today, not that the republicans are stingy, but more to the fact that people are getting to a point where the charity has hit a point that it can no longer be afforded.

Sorry about the poor peoples plight in life, but I just can afford to cut back anymore on my family in favor of some lazy welfare tramp that just plain out refuses to work and support what she brought into this world.

Of course the Roman Empire lived on another 500 years after those conservative words from the Cicero of 55 BC.

Plus both Julius Caesar and the great Augusta Caesar rejected the orations of Cicero which is probably why Rome lasted so long thereafter.

And it is not really that the words are wrong - as the words are just being applied to the wrong side.

As like today the conservative Republicans who make similar claims when they are the ones who have been doing the opposite - as in their words being hypocritical.

:singer:

Well, take out of it what you will. If you saw a hypocritical message; well, that's what you see.

Based solely upon your response:

the Julius/Augusta Ceasar rejected the orations of Cicero

A civilization thrives when its people work, debt is low/non-existant, and the government isn't intrusive into the people's everyday lives. If Julius/Augusta Ceasar trully did reject JUST THIS oration of Cicero, then, it is no wonder the Roman empire fell out of power like it did. Slowly and painfully.

Well, take out of it what you will. If you saw a hypocritical message; well, that's what you see.

Based solely upon your response:


If you read what I actually posted then I did not call your message or your posting as "hypocritical" as I only added on to your message that the ignorant conservative Republicans of today are being hypocritical by claiming they want a balanced budget or public debt to be reduced or any of that quote from Cicero, because the infamous Republican Presidents from Ronald Reagan onward are the ones who have created the entire mess that our Gov faces today.



A civilization thrives when its people work, debt is low/non-existant, and the government isn't intrusive into the people's everyday lives. If Julius/Augusta Ceasar trully did reject JUST THIS oration of Cicero, then, it is no wonder the Roman empire fell out of power like it did. Slowly and painfully.


The Roman empire continued on another 500 years after the blabber mouth Cicero was ignored, so the USA could only hope to be so fortunate and blessed if we too silence the ignorant blabbering of the so called conservative Republican Party of today.

Link = CICERO AND THE ROMAN REPUBLIC - Cicero picked the wrong side (http://www.richeast.org/htwm/Greeks/Cicero/Cicero.html)

:nomoney:

If you read what I actually posted then I did not call your message or your posting as "hypocritical" as I only added on to your message that the ignorant conservative Republicans of today are being hypocritical...

Yes, you are correct. Many of the self-professed "conservative R's" are hypocritical. However, this does not mean the message they tote is unreliable/unsupported.


Link = CICERO AND THE ROMAN REPUBLIC - Cicero picked the wrong side (http://www.richeast.org/htwm/Greeks/Cicero/Cicero.html)

Ah. Yes. Yet another 'the loser picked the wrong side' type deal.

When someone loses, or a team loses, this does not equate to another person picking the wrong side just because they lost. Cicero was MURDERED/assassinated...for doing what?

I can only ponder over if we all would be speaking latin if the ideals of Cicero had been adheared to by the "republic of Rome". But nope. Dictatorships can't have people running around preaching about how they [the dictatorships] aren't necessarily a good thing for the people they claim to serve/protect. I mean, free speech, psh*...who needs that, right?

It's not from Cicero. Source is author Taylor Caldwell's A Pillar of Iron.

Admittedly, it's a book ABOUT Cicero, but it's still fiction, and there's no record of him saying it.

Yes, you are correct. Many of the self-professed "conservative R's" are hypocritical. However, this does not mean the message they tote is unreliable/unsupported.


What that means is that their Republican claims are untrue and we must not believe them and do not vote for them.

The true evil of a hypocrite is that they can talk so nicely and say the right sounding words - while doing the very opposite.

It was the Democrat President Clinton that gave us a balanced budget with a surplus, and now it is President Obama (D) who has to clean up after the Bush (R) conservative mess.



I can only ponder over if we all would be speaking latin if the ideals of Cicero had been adheared to by the "republic of Rome". But nope. Dictatorships


Cicero and old Rome had slaves by the millions, and horrible gladiators as games, they had violent cruel barbarism in their homes and in their streets and in their never ending conquest. The smooth talking Cicero did not want to stop any of that.

No Roman and certainly not Cicero was separate from that, as every Roman wanted to rule the world by their cruel violent intentions.

The conservative Republicans of today are very similar, in that they want a stronger military because they threaten the entire world with American orchestrated wars, and the Republicans want to deny basic health care to millions of Americans, and they want to persecute immigrants as being illegal, they want the very poor and needy to do without while wanting the very wealthy to enrich themselves even more and more.

We all need to resit the Republican Party from achieving their dastardly ideals.

:mad:

An idea can powerful. An idea can be mis-used. You seem to support the democratic party because they do what they say. I can understand that, completely. However, that doesn't mean that what they are doing is good.

Sincerity doesn't equate to good. The person can be sincerely, bad.

Clinton borrowed money, moved it, and spent it. The national debt grew during that YEAR that is touted to be the year the surpluss occured. The national budget still ran a deficit that YEAR. There was NO surplus. I can dig up the raw data if you'd like...although, it was at least a year or so ago that I last saw it and read over it.

Like every other President over the last 50 years or more, like a tradition, Obama has borrowed more than the last president. He [Obama] hasn't cleaned anything up in the realm financial stability and he perpetuates the problem of borrowing money. How is he so much better in this aspect?

Basic health care is provided from individuals for themselves and perhaps, family. If you don't have family - well then, RAISE ONE...and teach them to support and look after their family members.

There is illegal immigration and then there is immigration. One is illegal. One is not. I am not against immigration reform, but first the present laws need to be upheld. Pandering to people who insist on occupying this country illegally is not a good way to treat the people who are already here.

Everybody, well practically everybody anyway, wants more. More and more. At some point YOU are going to want more. The difference between you and me and everyone else is how we decide to go about getting more. Do you provide for yourself, or depend on someone else? Will you steal? Work? Murder? Start a business? Ask for money? Charity? Go to the government? What will you do?

You appear to have great disdain for those that "control" the money. What you may fail to realize is that stealing, murder, and more government make those whom you oppose - richer. It seems that you might actually work for them too. You may work for the rich folks you claim to have disdain for. Boy, aren't you caught between a rock and hard place...

silence the ignorant blabbering

I wonder if someone did this to you, because this sounds like living in a state of fear to me.

What that means is that their Republican claims are untrue and we must not believe them and do not vote for them.

The true evil of a hypocrite is that they can talk so nicely and say the right sounding words - while doing the very opposite.

It was the Democrat President Clinton that gave us a balanced budget with a surplus, and now it is President Obama (D) who has to clean up after the Bush (R) conservative mess.



Cicero and old Rome had slaves by the millions, and horrible gladiators as games, they had violent cruel barbarism in their homes and in their streets and in their never ending conquest. The smooth talking Cicero did not want to stop any of that.

No Roman and certainly not Cicero was separate from that, as every Roman wanted to rule the world by their cruel violent intentions.

The conservative Republicans of today are very similar, in that they want a stronger military because they threaten the entire world with American orchestrated wars, and the Republicans want to deny basic health care to millions of Americans, and they want to persecute immigrants as being illegal, they want the very poor and needy to do without while wanting the very wealthy to enrich themselves even more and more.

We all need to resit the Republican Party from achieving their dastardly ideals.

:mad:

lets cover a few things here for the ignorant
Bill Clinton created a false surplus by creating expenses that would not come due until after he left office.

Bill Clinton forced the banks to find creative ways to loan people money that would never be able to pay it back. Those loans started to fail after he left office, the dems were warned by the republicans but refused to listen.

The republicans do not wish to deny basic health care, as a matter of fact, I doubt that JPC has paid for his own health care ever, and yet he did seem to find a way to have that care provided by the taxpayer, so, the thought that people go without care in the U.S is pure BS. Anyone that has gone without care in the U.S over the last 40 years is just too stupid to apply for the free care, and society in general might be better off without them to start with.

obama has not cleaned anything up, as a matter of fact he has run up the debt faster than all other presidents combined.

obamacare is designed to support itself only until the year 2016, leaving whoever the president is at that time (and it wont be obama) holding the bag for yet another incredible spending increase, or the need to repeal obamacare at that time.

the democrats are good at giving things away on credit with the bill coming due after they leave office.

Bill Clinton forced the banks to find creative ways to loan people money that would never be able to pay it back.

My favorite one was counting unemployment checks as "income".

My favorite one was counting unemployment checks as "income".

I was told by many adult figures that Clinton did great things for the country.

Well, 'great' doesn't equate to 'good'. I didn't know the difference back then.

My favorite one was counting unemployment checks as "income".


Let us remember that it was President Ronald Reagan who first claimed the "Unemployment Checks" as taxable income, because Reagan included that into his huge tax increase for the very poorest of American citizens.

It was Reagan with his controlled Republican Congress who started taxing Unemployment Compensation.

And as a consequence the Federal income calculation is used on many State Tax forms including our Maryland, so the Unemployment Compensation also became TAXED by the States too - because of President Reagan(R) trickle down tax on the poor.

FYI.

:barf:

Let us remember that it was President Ronald Reagan who first claimed the "Unemployment Checks" as taxable income...

If I were in this situation, this would give me more incentive and motivation to get back to work as soon as possible.

I suppose for some that don't intend to return to work and continued to draw from 'unemployment' this would be considered a tax hike, because otherwise it would only be temporary.

Though, my view is that the government ought not be in the business of 'unemployment' benefits as these takes responsibility away from the people as a whole to support themselves and their families and increases dependency on the public treasury. Do away with the whole thing and give the money back to those who payed into it in the amount that they payed into it....hehe....plus interest and adjusted for inflation.

Oh, and I forgot to mention as well. Inflation.

Inflation is the hidden tax. Now, I wonder how much inflation has increased over the last few years :whistle:

Let us remember that it was President Ronald Reagan who first claimed the "Unemployment Checks" as taxable income, because Reagan included that into his huge tax increase for the very poorest of American citizens.


Actually it began to be partially taxable under Carter, in 79, after it was discovered that tax-free money was a disincentive to find a job.

The original point however, was that 6 months of jobless benefits should never be considered "income" if you're trying to pay down a 30 year mortgage. It was exactly stupid things like that which began the housing mess - which by the way, was what we were talking about. Try and keep up.

On a similar note, Obama has now waived most of the requirements for work for welfare, essentially reinstating the following as acceptable as work --

Bed rest, personal care activities, massage, exercise, journaling, motivational reading, smoking cessation, weight loss promotion, participation in parent-teacher meetings, or helping friends or family with household tasks and errands.

Only a Democrat could call that "work".