IAW with the latest INSTR, 5100.12J removes the requirement for non-military personnel to attend a military motorcycle training course provided they have a motorcycle endorsement on their driver's license.

Well how about that.. Understand this applies to Contractors, Retirees AND GS..

About time..

How about that. Excellent news. The card I still have from the course I took in '85 was good for years and years..and then along came the new requirements and it was no good any more and I could no longer take a bike on to the various bases where I work from time to time; that was particularly aggravating in the case of Little Creek Amphib base..because the ride to and from is so nice.

I wondered when sanity would prevail; the cost to taxpayers for the mandated refresher course alone had to be rediculous.

Well, that saves me a trip to Dahgren in late August. Thanks, Bob, unless of course, every base develops it's own requirement

Well, I forsee a BIG drop in class enrollment, and I'm sure APS won't be so happy about that! :lol:

Bob, did it have an effective date?

IAW with the latest INSTR, 5100.12J removes the requirement for non-military personnel to attend a military motorcycle training course provided they have a motorcycle endorsement on their driver's license.

Well how about that.. Understand this applies to Contractors, Retirees AND GS..

About time..

That will be excellent. I was going to quit riding to work Oct. 1.

From page 24:

(6) Civilian Motorcycle Operator Training. All civilian motorcycle operators who have a current State motorcycle operator license, endorsement or permit are not required to complete any of the above training.

Above training being the ERC/BRC and SPort Rider training..

ALL motorcycle training now starts with "All SAILORS will/shall...."

Dated: 26 June 2012

Well, I forsee a BIG drop in class enrollment, and I'm sure APS won't be so happy about that! :lol:

Bob, did it have an effective date?

Effective immediately (in general). However, it will go into effect Monday, 7/16/12 for PAX. Security Officer is writing the new policy to get to pass offices so that all those who issue stickers are aware.

Well, I forsee a BIG drop in class enrollment, and I'm sure APS won't be so happy about that! :lol:

Bob, did it have an effective date?

:bawl:
We're usually filled to capacity with active duty. Dependents and civilians were on standby.

We currentlyhave a backlog so this should help

Effective immediately (in general). However, it will go into effect Monday, 7/16/12 for PAX. Security Officer is writing the new policy to get to pass offices so that all those who issue stickers are aware.

Excellent. I never took the safety course and refused to take it just to get on base, so I've been taking the truck to work. Now I can take the bike and get on if I need to (I work off-site).

Excellent. I never took the safety course and refused to take it just to get on base, so I've been taking the truck to work. Now I can take the bike and get on if I need to (I work off-site).

I'll admit that I did learn some things in the course so I'm glad I took it. However, I did resent the fact that I "had" to take it for the Navy.

IAW with the latest INSTR, 5100.12J removes the requirement for non-military personnel to attend a military motorcycle training course provided they have a motorcycle endorsement on their driver's license.

Well how about that.. Understand this applies to Contractors, Retirees AND GS..

About time..Saw this, but didn't know they signed the instruction. :confused:

:bawl:
We're usually filled to capacity with active duty. Dependents and civilians were on standby.

We currentlyhave a backlog so this should help

:eyebrow: Did you do my class last year in Dalhgren :snacks:


:lol: If so, I metcha and didn't even know it :lol:

What about the vest, gloves, hard sole shoes ect.......requirements?

Just re-did my motorcycle safety with Aps up at Andrews AFB. I'm good until I retire.

What about the vest, gloves, hard sole shoes ect.......requirements?

Be nice if they got rid of the long sleeves and gloves rule :lol:

What about the vest, gloves, hard sole shoes ect.......requirements?

No vest..

Over the ankle boots..

Motorcycle Gloves..

Eye Protection (fairings don't count)

Long sleeve shirts, and pants..

Be nice if they got rid of the long sleeves and gloves rule :lol:

I'm speculating here so may be way off, but I think doing away with the training requirement is, at least in part, a result of a lot of complaints by contractor personnel. As a civil servant, I got paid to go take the class because it was required by my employer. Contractors were not always (or maybe never) so lucky so they had to take time off. Maybe some upward pressure was finally applied and the Navy cried Uncle.

I don't see them doing away with the other requirements though. Wish I were wrong.

No vest..

Over the ankle boots..

Motorcycle Gloves..

Eye Protection (fairings don't count)

Long sleeve shirts, and pants..

What I don't get, what does the long sleeves, gloves, etc do for someone, if you aren't going to mandate they be certified protective gear?

I'm speculating here so may be way off, but I think doing away with the training requirement is, at least in part, a result of a lot of complaints by contractor personnel. As a civil servant, I got paid to go take the class because it was required by my employer. Contractors were not always (or maybe never) so lucky so they had to take time off. Maybe some upward pressure was finally applied and the Navy cried Uncle.

I don't see them doing away with the other requirements though. Wish I were wrong.


Yeah, it would be interesting if they came out with why they are doing it. I didn't mind taking the class, like you, I got paid for it. But I did have a lot of friends who had to use leave to take the 1 day and pay for it.

Until the word gets out, I wonder if the safety folks will tell the civilians that this is no longer required. Wonder what they'll do if a civilian decides they still want to take the class? Doubt that would happen, but just wondering. As a GS, the class was free. Did contractors have to pay?

What I don't get, what does the long sleeves, gloves, etc do for someone, if you aren't going to mandate they be certified protective gear?


I still find it comical that they give me a hard time about my choice of shoes, while they wave the next guy on board with a long sleeve dress shirt, and dress pants, and a beanie helmet.

Priorities a little screwy..

Until the word gets out, I wonder if the safety folks will tell the civilians that this is no longer required. Wonder what they'll do if a civilian decides they still want to take the class? Doubt that would happen, but just wondering. As a GS, the class was free. Did contractors have to pay?

Contractors could no longer take the class offered through the military/gov. They had to take CSMs 1 day Advanced Riders Course (don't think MVA does that course)

I still find it comical that they give me a hard time about my choice of shoes, while they wave the next guy on board with a long sleeve dress shirt, and dress pants, and a beanie helmet.

Priorities a little screwy..


:lol: yeah. They didn't say anything to the guy this morning on the crotch rocket wearing Air Jordyn's either :lmao:

I still find it comical that they give me a hard time about my choice of shoes, while they wave the next guy on board with a long sleeve dress shirt, and dress pants, and a beanie helmet.

Priorities a little screwy..

Which is why they should just follow state law.

Contractors could no longer take the class offered through the military/gov. They had to take CSMs 1 day Advanced Riders Course (don't think MVA does that course)

I had contractors in the class I took last month.

:lol: yeah. They didn't say anything to the guy this morning on the crotch rocket wearing Air Jordyn's either :lmao:

Well, that's good to know...... :whistle:

I had contractors in the class I took last month.


No sh*t... They told all the guys in our org. that they could no longer take the base class, and have to go off-site.


Well, that's good to know...... :whistle:

You turn into the VX-1/20 area this morning :eyebrow:

:lmao:

You turn into the VX-1/20 area this morning :eyebrow:

:lmao:
Not me... I can't afford Jordans...

I'll admit that I did learn some things in the course so I'm glad I took it. However, I did resent the fact that I "had" to take it for the Navy.

I didn't mind taking it. Once. Every three years was not going to happen though, nless I could have done it on base. Hey a day off of work and riding the bike? What's not to like? Well, the standing around, except watching is kinda fun too. Not so much now since the sport bikes are separate.

The training range at PAX has been OOC for months, if not a couple of years. However, contract is in place to have it fixed and certified so that the courses will eventually be conducted here again.

To the best of my knowledge, there is still a vest requirement after sunset.

To the best of my knowledge, there is still a vest requirement after sunset.

Something reflective. Not specific to a vest.

To the best of my knowledge, there is still a vest requirement after sunset.

Something bright and reflective at least.

Something bright and reflective at least.

As far as over the ankle hard shoes/boots I think that is just strongly recommended, they are supposed to be hard though.

The boots I wear are not hard, but they are leather.

As far as over the ankle hard shoes/boots I think that is just strongly recommended, they are supposed to be hard though.

The boots I wear are not hard, but they are leather.

Boots REQUIRED..

(c) Foot Protection. Sturdy over the ankle footwear that affords protection for the feet and ankles shall be worn.
(d) Protective Clothing. Riders and passengers shall wear a long sleeved shirt or jacket, long trousers, and full-fingered gloves or mittens designed for use on a motorcycle. Motorcycle jackets constructed of abrasion resistant materials such as leather, kevlar, and or cordura and containing impact-absorbing padding are highly recommended. To enhance the ability of other vehicle operators to see and avoid motorcyclists, outer garments constructed of brightly colored, fluorescent or reflective materials are highly recommended.

IAW with the latest INSTR, 5100.12J removes the requirement for non-military personnel to attend a military motorcycle training course provided they have a motorcycle endorsement on their driver's license.

Well how about that.. Understand this applies to Contractors, Retirees AND GS..

About time..

ooh there are going to be some happy faces around the office. I was sick of listening to them complain :lmao:

Boots REQUIRED..

(c) Foot Protection. Sturdy over the ankle footwear that affords protection for the feet and ankles shall be worn.
(d) Protective Clothing. Riders and passengers shall wear a long sleeved shirt or jacket, long trousers, and full-fingered gloves or mittens designed for use on a motorcycle. Motorcycle jackets constructed of abrasion resistant materials such as leather, kevlar, and or cordura and containing impact-absorbing padding are highly recommended. To enhance the ability of other vehicle operators to see and avoid motorcyclists, outer garments constructed of brightly colored, fluorescent or reflective materials are highly recommended.

Thanks. I think that has changed since I read it last, maybe a year ago?

Thanks. I think that has changed since I read it last, maybe a year ago?

This is hot off the press.. 26 June 2012

This is hot off the press.. 26 June 2012

Well, it makes me :starcat:

Something bright and reflective at least.

For my morning rides in, my jacket is black, certainly not bright, but it does have reflective piping.
Once it warms up, my long sleve garmet is one of three long sleeve over shirts. One red, one white, one blue. Bright and easy to see, but not reflective.

The training range at PAX has been OOC for months, if not a couple of years. However, contract is in place to have it fixed and certified so that the courses will eventually be conducted here again.

Well, they 'did' fix it, but they didn't :lol:

I was told, that they were supposed to come in and hard fill all the cracks and what not. Instead they came in and used that 'tar snake' junk which is considered a road hazard since it is sticky when it's hot, and slick when it's cold...

You can still go and practice on it whenever you'd like, but who knows when they will give them the money to fix it for it to be a course again, and with PAXs' military numbers low, it isn't a high priority :ohwell:

Well, they 'did' fix it, but they didn't :lol:

I was told, that they were supposed to come in and hard fill all the cracks and what not. Instead they came in and used that 'tar snake' junk which is considered a road hazard since it is sticky when it's hot, and slick when it's cold...

You can still go and practice on it whenever you'd like, but who knows when they will give them the money to fix it for it to be a course again, and with PAXs' military numbers low, it isn't a high priority :ohwell:

Money is already identified and spent and it's a large chunk of change. They are going to tear out the existing asphalt, replace it with new and re-stripe the entire course.

Money is already identified and spent and it's a large chunk of change. They are going to tear out the existing asphalt, replace it with new and re-stripe the entire course.

Well that's good. (I'm also going off of last years info when I talked to the Safety Office peeps) I know I need practice in the box, been riding for 5 years, and I still can't do the box on my bike :lol: I can do EVERYTHING else just fine, but the box gets me everytime :lol:

Yep, happened to be in the office when that news came in, made a certain lady VERY happy. Not often you hear a lady of that age squeal like a kid in Xmas:) I'll have to call on Monday and let her know my seat in the upcoming class over the bridge can be given up to active duty member.

Well, they 'did' fix it, but they didn't :lol:

I was told, that they were supposed to come in and hard fill all the cracks and what not. Instead they came in and used that 'tar snake' junk which is considered a road hazard since it is sticky when it's hot, and slick when it's cold...

You can still go and practice on it whenever you'd like, but who knows when they will give them the money to fix it for it to be a course again, and with PAXs' military numbers low, it isn't a high priority :ohwell:

Well that's good. (I'm also going off of last years info when I talked to the Safety Office peeps) I know I need practice in the box, been riding for 5 years, and I still can't do the box on my bike :lol: I can do EVERYTHING else just fine, but the box gets me everytime :lol:

There is a huge parking lot by the movie theater in Lex Park that is all marked up for the course. There is a MSF school in the little shopping center there.

Well that's good. (I'm also going off of last years info when I talked to the Safety Office peeps) I know I need practice in the box, been riding for 5 years, and I still can't do the box on my bike :lol: I can do EVERYTHING else just fine, but the box gets me everytime :lol:

"The box" was a pain for me at first too. Instructor watched me and gave me two tips. 1) Look where you wanna go, not where you are. Eyes up and turn your head. 2) Shift your weight in the seat. A little goes a long way.
After one or two practices with those tips in play I nailed that box every time.

"The box" was a pain for me at first too. Instructor watched me and gave me two tips. 1) Look where you wanna go, not where you are. Eyes up and turn your head. 2) Shift your weight in the seat. A little goes a long way.
After one or two practices with those tips in play I nailed that box every time.

:yay: Ain't it cool how well the technique works

What pizzez me off about the whole thing is if they're going to require a motorcycle course just to ride on base, then why not a safety course for those that drive cars/trucks on base? Car accident rates due to stupidity are just as high as motorcycle accidents....probably more.

But then I get a day away from work just to ride when I take the motorcycle course. Can't beat that. :shrug:

IAW with the latest INSTR, 5100.12J removes the requirement for non-military personnel to attend a military motorcycle training course provided they have a motorcycle endorsement on their driver's license.

Well how about that.. Understand this applies to Contractors, Retirees AND GS..

About time..

About f'in time!

What pizzez me off about the whole thing is if they're going to require a motorcycle course just to ride on base, then why not a safety course for those that drive cars/trucks on base? Car accident rates due to stupidity are just as high as motorcycle accidents....probably more.

But then I get a day away from work just to ride when I take the motorcycle course. Can't beat that. :shrug:

Which is fine unless it costs me money. I would have retaken the one here at Pax when that instruction about every 3 years came out if I could have.

What pizzez me off about the whole thing is if they're going to require a motorcycle course just to ride on base, then why not a safety course for those that drive cars/trucks on base? Car accident rates due to stupidity are just as high as motorcycle accidents....probably more.

But then I get a day away from work just to ride when I take the motorcycle course. Can't beat that. :shrug:

I"m sure car crash rates exceed motorcycle rates by a large amount. But here's the key. I think that the amount of servicemembers we lose to motorcycle crashes is higher as a percentage of numbers who ride as opposed to drive.

What pizzez me off about the whole thing is if they're going to require a motorcycle course just to ride on base, then why not a safety course for those that drive cars/trucks on base? Car accident rates due to stupidity are just as high as motorcycle accidents....probably more.

:nono:

The Army and Marines had more fatalities from motorcycle accidents than from combat.

14 dead so far at Andrews this year

:nono:

The Army and Marines had more fatalities from motorcycle accidents than from combat.

14 dead so far at Andrews this year

14 motorcycle fatalities? From just Andrews??

Well, they 'did' fix it, but they didn't :lol:

I was told, that they were supposed to come in and hard fill all the cracks and what not. Instead they came in and used that 'tar snake' junk which is considered a road hazard since it is sticky when it's hot, and slick when it's cold...

You can still go and practice on it whenever you'd like, but who knows when they will give them the money to fix it for it to be a course again, and with PAXs' military numbers low, it isn't a high priority :ohwell:

I wouldnt say that you can ride on the old course whenever you like. Part of the problem with the setup was proximity to the taxiway. The instructors had to stop the class every time an airplane came down the taxiway. Check with security before you go. Begtcha they tell you that you cant use it.

So, do we know for sure that the base has settled this out? In other words, can I just go renew my sticker and get rid of the temp that was taking me til the course in August?

So, do we know for sure that the base has settled this out? In other words, can I just go renew my sticker and get rid of the temp that was taking me til the course in August?

Just stop in at the Gate 1 badge office and ask.

I could, but I would rather find out here than waste the time first going to the window, then having to get kicked upstairs only to find out that "they didnt get the memo yet".

I could, but I would rather find out here than waste the time first going to the window, then having to get kicked upstairs only to find out that "they didnt get the memo yet".

Just renewed this morning..

Never presented my MSF card, and they never asked.

Good, I will swing by by in the AM.

Just renewed this morning..

Never presented my MSF card, and they never asked.

:bawl:

:bawl:

Sorry aps, but they couldn't keep requiring civilians to purchase a thi....oh wait, never mind.......:killingme

Sorry aps, but they couldn't keep requiring civilians to purchase a thi....oh wait, never mind.......:killingme

Had 12 registered students with one standby for a sport bike class today.

One student showed up and we need a minum of 5 to run the class so we didn't get to stand in a killer hot parking lot all day

Good, I will swing by by in the AM.

If PAX doesn't work come down fto Webster, they always seem to be a little ahead.

Which is weird, because it's a subsidiary office to the Pax folks. But I'll give it a shot if the others dont work out.

Stopped in at Gate 2 just now, and wala, new sticker good til 2015. And some needy active duty person can take my seat in the class.