BREAKING NEWS: Possible Murder Suicide, 3 Dead, 1 Critical | Southern Maryland News Net (http://smnewsnet.com/archives/19862)

so sad. Prayers to the family and for the child being flown out...

WTF!

Prayers to the family and the folks that responded to that. Insane...

very sad, prior domestic violence with one family on that street. prayers for the 12yr old.

Why can't people leave the children out of their sadistic action. Thoughts to the surviving child and the family.

WOW sad.

BREAKING NEWS: Possible Murder Suicide, 3 Dead, 1 Critical | Southern Maryland News Net (http://smnewsnet.com/archives/19862)

Almost sounds Chris Benoit-esque, doesn't it?
Hope the 12 yr old makes out okay.

This breaks my heart. Prayers for the innocent victims family and especially for the surviving 12 year. May the person that did this rot in hell for eternity.

This breaks my heart. Prayers for the innocent victims family and especially for the surviving 12 year. May the person that did this rot in hell for eternity.

Oh he will, no doubt. This is so disgusting. Off yourself if you're that miserable in life. Leave your innocent family out of it. How could this animal look into his children's eyes and shoot them? I pray this 12 year old pulls through and that there's strong family support to help him.

Oh he will, no doubt. This is so disgusting. Off yourself if you're that miserable in life. Leave your innocent family out of it. How could this animal look into his children's eyes and shoot them? I pray this 12 year old pulls through and that there's strong family support to help him.

I didn't see where the article said he shot them. I may be assuming, but I thought he made it even more personal by slashing their throats according to what I read. "A 12 year-old has been flown to Childrens Hospital in critical condition with lacerations to the neck and severe burns."

Even more reason to burn in hell as far as I'm concerned.

very sad, prior domestic violence with one family on that street. prayers for the 12yr old.

Frank and Cindy Hayward is what they are reporting. According to the case search, it appears they divorced in 07 for domestic related matters and that they (at some point) got back together & bought this house in 2010.

Murder-Suicide In Calvert County Leaves Man, Woman, 2-Year-Old Dead, 1 In Critical Condition « CBS DC (http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/07/31/murder-suicide-in-calvert-county-leaves-man-woman-2-year-old-dead-1-in-critical-condition/)

Animals. I think suicide in this region is more common than people think.... They are just better at sweeping it under the rug... Can't make Good Ole SoMd. look bad!

animals. I think suicide in this region is more common than people think.... They are just better at sweeping it under the rug... Can't make good ole somd. Look bad!

wtf???

Humm...HUGE MacMansion of a house, pool, 1+acre lot, House: 3,200sf, built 2002, assessed value $560,000.
Two kids, 2 adults, a lot of house for 4 people!
Separated, back together, house on the market.
One can only wonder the "stressors" on this man to do what he did.

WBALTV has some interesting aerial shots of the property and very close neighborhood.

Oh, it is on the market for a cool $649,900
(estimated monthly payment: $3,700.00) YIKES!!
Check it out! 1800 Candlelight Court (http://www.century21.com/property/1800-candlelight-court-owings-md-20736-REN005422194)

Humm...HUGE MacMansion of a house, pool, 1+acre lot, House: 3,200sf, built 2002, assessed value $560,000.
Two kids, 2 adults, a lot of house for 4 people!
Separated, back together, house on the market.
One can only wonder the "stressors" on this man to do what he did.

WBALTV has some interesting aerial shots of the property and very close neighborhood.

Oh, it is on the market for a cool $649,900
(estimated monthly payment: $3,700.00) YIKES!!
Check it out! 1800 Candlelight Court (http://www.century21.com/property/1800-candlelight-court-owings-md-20736-REN005422194)

Felt a little weird thumbing through those photos....

The bank is going to have to knock that house way down in price to get anyone to even consider buying it now.

The bank is going to have to knock that house way down in price to get anyone to even consider buying it now. I was about to post.... Price just reduced!

Why do people buy these McMansions??? I never understood trying to live beyond your means.

Why do people buy these McMansions??? I never understood trying to live beyond your means.
You think their house is a "McMansion?"

You think their house is a "McMansion?"

My house would fit in that house about 2.5 times.

You think their house is a "McMansion?"Look, I know they can't keep up with the "Lanes" :lol: but yea, that is a McMansion. 4300 sq. ft. and over $600K is large.

McMansion

A large and pretentious house, typically
of shoddy construction, typical of "upscale" suburban developments in the late
20th and early 21st centuries. Such houses
are characterized by steep roofs of complex design, theatrical entrances, lack of stylistic integrity and backsides which are
notably less fussy than their fronts. They are often placed closely together to maximize the developer's profits and appeal to people who value perceived social status over actual, physical, economic or historic value.
Urban Dictionary: mcmansion (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mcmansion)

You think their house is a "McMansion?"

:yeahthat:

Look, I know they can't keep up with the "Lanes" :lol: but yea, that is a McMansion. 4300 sq. ft. and over $600K is large.

It's on the larger side but nothing spectacular IMO. :biggrin:

It's on the larger side but nothing spectacular IMO. :biggrin:

Gotta do it......."That's what SHE said".....

Now that this thread has turned the conversation to the house, I will share with you an actual comment that was NOT approved on SMNEWSNET yesterday.

"I am the owner of a Crime and Trauma Scene Decontamination Company. I am very sorry to hear about the tragedy that happened today. If the family is looking for a company to help get the house back together we are equipped to handle this delicate matter. Please have them contact us at 443-220-8205 we are available 24 hours a day 7 days a week."

I wanted to approve so the public could see it, but thought it would make us look bad. I just wonder how many calls he would have gotten from pissed off people had we approved it?

Now that this thread has turned the conversation to the house, I will share with you an actual comment that was NOT approved on SMNEWSNET yesterday.

"I am the owner of a Crime and Trauma Scene Decontamination Company. I am very sorry to hear about the tragedy that happened today. If the family is looking for a company to help get the house back together we are equipped to handle this delicate matter. Please have them contact us at 443-220-8205 we are available 24 hours a day 7 days a week."

I wanted to approve so the public could see it, but thought it would make us look bad. I just wonder how many calls he would have gotten from pissed off people had we approved it?

I would have found that information to he helpful, and not at all insensitive.

My friend, who had to clean up the brain debris from her father's suicide, would have gladly used this service.

:yeahthat:

It's on the larger side but nothing spectacular IMO. :biggrin:Sheesh! You one percenters!!
:nomoney:<----- me (99%)

Now that this thread has turned the conversation to the house, I will share with you an actual comment that was NOT approved on SMNEWSNET yesterday.

"I am the owner of a Crime and Trauma Scene Decontamination Company. I am very sorry to hear about the tragedy that happened today. If the family is looking for a company to help get the house back together we are equipped to handle this delicate matter. Please have them contact us at 443-220-8205 we are available 24 hours a day 7 days a week."

I wanted to approve so the public could see it, but thought it would make us look bad. I just wonder how many calls he would have gotten from pissed off people had we approved it?

That makes sense since the comments were locked.

It's on the larger side but nothing spectacular IMO. :biggrin:

I don't think it is all that spectacular either but for different reasons. The house seems so industrial to me - not cozy or personal. However, by definition, Baja is right, it is considered a McMansion. I believe the 3200 square feet doesn’t include the finished basement. Like Hank, I thought thumbing through the pictures was strange also but something I noticed seemed to stand out. This couple cleaned up all the appliances on the kitchen counters yet left 1/3 of the bar full of alcohol bottles. It made me think they like to drink.

Now that this thread has turned the conversation to the house, I will share with you an actual comment that was NOT approved on SMNEWSNET yesterday.

"I am the owner of a Crime and Trauma Scene Decontamination Company. I am very sorry to hear about the tragedy that happened today. If the family is looking for a company to help get the house back together we are equipped to handle this delicate matter. Please have them contact us at 443-220-8205 we are available 24 hours a day 7 days a week."

I wanted to approve so the public could see it, but thought it would make us look bad. I just wonder how many calls he would have gotten from pissed off people had we approved it?

I do see where you are coming from.... at first i was pissed... but then thought about it.. and did find it helpful

:shrug: where else would they advertise this type of service? Next to Servpro? Stanley Steamer?


Maybe if it was written a little different?

Hell I would look to them for a PT job :coffee:

I would have found that information to he helpful, and not at all insensitive.

My friend, who had to clean up the brain debris from her father's suicide, would have gladly used this service.

:yay:

That makes sense since the comments were locked.
They were locked because we were getting so many comments about their personal lives, their relationship, there finances, and all kinds of other personal info that had no business being posted.

They were locked because we were getting so many comments about their personal lives, their relationship, there finances, and all kinds of other personal info that had no business being posted.

I agree with you completely.

They were locked because we were getting so many comments about their personal lives, their relationship, there finances, and all kinds of other personal info that had no business being posted.

An amateur internet sleuth could put together a general picture of the family and their situation from info. readily available on the internet. His record was not so stellar and they were relatively young. I'm just curious what he did for a living to be living such a high-falutin' life. I guess none of that really matters now though. :ohwell:

An amateur internet sleuth could put together a general picture of the family and their situation from info. readily available on the internet. His record was not so stellar and they were relatively young. I'm just curious what he did for a living to be living such a high-falutin' life. I guess none of that really matters now though. :ohwell:

Think I read he was a pipe fitter or something of that nature.

Think I read he was a pipe fitter or something of that nature.

:yeahthat: Still not, in my opinion, something that would produce the income to afford the lifestyle, JMO.

:yeahthat: Still not, in my opinion, something that would produce the income to afford the lifestyle, JMO.Steamfitters here make $37.50/hr. $78,250.00/year http://steamfitters-602.org/library/document-library/20110802115614.Wage-Rates-8-1-11.pdf

Maybe if she made the same amount, it'd be tight. They'd have no savings at all.

:yeahthat: Still not, in my opinion, something that would produce the income to afford the lifestyle, JMO.

wondered the same thing. He had judgements against him a few years back then all of a sudden he has a house that size with a gorgeous pool, brand new cars.?.?. Something seemed amiss to me.

:yeahthat: Still not, in my opinion, something that would produce the income to afford the lifestyle, JMO.

Maybe they sold a house a few years back and made a good amount on it? Maybe the family had inherited some money? It doesn't always have to be someone's income as an example of how one should live.

Steamfitters here make $37.50/hr. $78,250.00/year http://steamfitters-602.org/library/document-library/20110802115614.Wage-Rates-8-1-11.pdf


This doesn't take into consideration OT. :larry:

This doesn't take into consideration OT. :larry:Ok lets say he makes $100K w/OT. Take 28% out for taxes... $72K take home.

$72K/12months = $6K month - $3.7K mortgage = $2,300.00 left for:

food
car
gas
electric
phone
insurance
maintenance
TV
clothes
activities

Not gonna happen on his salary alone.

Like I said, she'd have to work AND make the same money

Now that this thread has turned the conversation to the house, I will share with you an actual comment that was NOT approved on SMNEWSNET yesterday.

"I am the owner of a Crime and Trauma Scene Decontamination Company. I am very sorry to hear about the tragedy that happened today. If the family is looking for a company to help get the house back together we are equipped to handle this delicate matter. Please have them contact us at 443-220-8205 we are available 24 hours a day 7 days a week."

I wanted to approve so the public could see it, but thought it would make us look bad. I just wonder how many calls he would have gotten from pissed off people had we approved it?

There's got to be a better way for this company to advertise. I know their services would be needed on many locations, but there's got to be a better way.

I had to help clean up a crime scene and scrape brain matter off the walls and doors. It's not pleasant. Especially when they are friends/family you are doing this for.

There's got to be a better way for this company to advertise. I know their services would be needed on many locations, but there's got to be a better way.

I had to help clean up a crime scene and scrape brain matter off the walls and doors. It's not pleasant. Especially when they are friends/family you are doing this for.They shouldn't have to advertise at all. Not anyone can clean up a bio-hazmat scene like this one. Companies have to be certified & licensed as do the workers. All he needs to do is let all of the local EMS agencies know about his company. There aren't that many companies that can do this.

Ok lets say he makes $100K w/OT. Take 28% out for taxes... $72K take home.

$72K/12months = $6K month - $3.7K mortgage = $2,300.00 left for:

food
car
gas
electric
phone
insurance
maintenance
TV
clothes
activities

Not gonna happen on his salary alone.

Like I said, she'd have to work AND make the same money

That is what I was thinking as well - knowing 'about' the ballpark of what they make. but like Chasey said earlier...


Maybe they sold a house a few years back and made a good amount on it? Maybe the family had inherited some money? It doesn't always have to be someone's income as an example of how one should live.

I thought that as well but a Mr. Davis (a neighbor they interviewed) said the house was on the market because "things haven't been well" something he quoted Frank as having said to him. (Channel 5 news at 5 last night) that could mean financial or with the relationship - who knows...

They shouldn't have to advertise at all. Not anyone can clean up a bio-hazmat scene like this one. Companies have to be certified & licensed as do the workers. All he needs to do is let all of the local EMS agencies know about his company. There aren't that many companies that can do this.

:yeahthat: My husband and a friend used to run a business like this in DC.

They shouldn't have to advertise at all. Not anyone can clean up a bio-hazmat scene like this one. Companies have to be certified & licensed as do the workers. All he needs to do is let all of the local EMS agencies know about his company. There aren't that many companies that can do this.

Problem I see with this is, the EMS are not going to stay on the scene when the victims are already deceased. Not all families show up on the scene, many have to be contacted by the police department and notified. I don't see the police advertising for them. :shrug: It's a no win situation. Their family member is dead, and they don't know who to call for help. Sucks.

Ok lets say he makes $100K w/OT. Take 28% out for taxes... $72K take home.

$72K/12months = $6K month - $3.7K mortgage = $2,300.00 left for:

food
car
gas
electric
phone
insurance
maintenance
TV
clothes
activities

Not gonna happen on his salary alone.

Like I said, she'd have to work AND make the same money

3.7 k on mortgage would be now if it sold. They didn't buy it for the price it is listed now, so their mortgage is lower than that.

Problem I see with this is, the EMS are not going to stay on the scene when the victims are already deceased. Not all families show up on the scene, many have to be contacted by the police department and notified. I don't see the police advertising for them. :shrug: It's a no win situation. Their family member is dead, and they don't know who to call for help. Sucks.Noooooo....... the on scene EMS don't call them. The dispatcher does. The police will tape off the area until a hazmat team arrives.

3.7 k on mortgage would be now if it sold. They didn't buy it for the price it is listed now, so their mortgage is lower than that.Good point. Wonder what they paid. I'll guarantee in the $500's. Mamma would still need a decent job to supplement the income.

Now that this thread has turned the conversation to the house, I will share with you an actual comment that was NOT approved on SMNEWSNET yesterday.

"I am the owner of a Crime and Trauma Scene Decontamination Company. I am very sorry to hear about the tragedy that happened today. If the family is looking for a company to help get the house back together we are equipped to handle this delicate matter. Please have them contact us at 443-220-8205 we are available 24 hours a day 7 days a week."

I wanted to approve so the public could see it, but thought it would make us look bad. I just wonder how many calls he would have gotten from pissed off people had we approved it?

That is tacky as ####. Not on your part, but on the part of the ambulance-chasing cleaning company, posting advertising on a story such as this.

What the hell gets into people?

They shouldn't have to advertise at all. Not anyone can clean up a bio-hazmat scene like this one. Companies have to be certified & licensed as do the workers. All he needs to do is let all of the local EMS agencies know about his company. There aren't that many companies that can do this.

Noooooo....... the on scene EMS don't call them. The dispatcher does. The police will tape off the area until a hazmat team arrives.

You are confusing me even more. :confused: You said let all the EMS agencies know. What good are they going to do if they aren't on the scene?? The disbatcher isn't going to call a company to come clean up the scene, someone has to be responsible for paying the bill. They aren't going to do it without someone saying they'll pay the fee and negoitating a price. The police will not stay on the scene until a hazmat team arrives. At least they didn't when I had to go in an clean up brain matter. The fire department will hose off all the bodily fluids if it's in a publc place. Private residence is a different matter entirely.

Good point. Wonder what they paid. I'll guarantee in the $500's. Mamma would still need a decent job to supplement the income.

THey bought the house on 12/14/2010 and paid $562,000

positive it was 562,000

THey bought the house on 12/14/2010 and paid $562,000

wrong


In summer 2007, Cynthia Hayward filed for divorce. At the time of the divorce, Frank was working at Stephens Pipe and Steel in Bladensburg, and Cynthia worked at Anne Arundel Diagnostics. They lived in a $349,000 home that was on the market.

wrong


In summer 2007, Cynthia Hayward filed for divorce. At the time of the divorce, Frank was working at Stephens Pipe and Steel in Bladensburg, and Cynthia worked at Anne Arundel Diagnostics. They lived in a $349,000 home that was on the market.

what does the summer of 2007 have to do with december of 2010?

Owner Name: HAYWARD FRANK J JR &
CYNTHIA MARIE Use: RESIDENTIAL
Principal Residence: YES
Mailing Address: 1800 CANDLELIGHT CT
OWINGS MD 20736-3616 Deed Reference: 1) /03632/ 00476
2)

Location & Structure Information
Premises Address Legal Description
1800 CANDLELIGHT CT LT 26R PLAT 2
OWINGS 20736-0000
FAIRVIEW FARM


Transfer Information
Seller: ICE, JERRY & JANICE Date: 12/14/2010 Price: $562,000 Type: ARMS LENGTH IMPROVED Deed1: KPS /03632/ 00476 Deed2:


now what????????????

what does the summer of 2007 have to do with december of 2010?

Owner Name: HAYWARD FRANK J JR &
CYNTHIA MARIE Use: RESIDENTIAL
Principal Residence: YES
Mailing Address: 1800 CANDLELIGHT CT
OWINGS MD 20736-3616 Deed Reference: 1) /03632/ 00476
2)

Location & Structure Information
Premises Address Legal Description
1800 CANDLELIGHT CT LT 26R PLAT 2
OWINGS 20736-0000
FAIRVIEW FARM


Transfer Information
Seller: ICE, JERRY & JANICE Date: 12/14/2010 Price: $562,000 Type: ARMS LENGTH IMPROVED Deed1: KPS /03632/ 00476 Deed2:


now what????????????

Oh, maybe the 349,000 was the house they lived in before.

now what????????????

such a biatch! :lmao:

Doesn't it make you people feel weird to just overtly stalk strangers like that?

Doesn't it make you people feel weird to just overtly stalk strangers like that?

My info is from The Washington Post :shrug:

Three dead in apparent murder-suicide in Calvert County, authorities say - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/three-dead-in-apparent-murder-suicide-in-calvert-county-authorities-say/2012/07/31/gJQAnDJ7MX_story.html)

Doesn't it make you people feel weird to just overtly stalk strangers like that?

I wasn't stalking. Someone asked a question and I answered it. I don't think that's stalking.

You are confusing me even more. :confused: You said let all the EMS agencies know. What good are they going to do if they aren't on the scene?? The disbatcher isn't going to call a company to come clean up the scene, someone has to be responsible for paying the bill. They aren't going to do it without someone saying they'll pay the fee and negoitating a price. The police will not stay on the scene until a hazmat team arrives. At least they didn't when I had to go in an clean up brain matter. The fire department will hose off all the bodily fluids if it's in a publc place. Private residence is a different matter entirely.The DISPATCHER calls the company, not the on scene personnel.

I'm pretty sure (could be wrong) the authorities cannot leave a hazmat area like this. They will call the company & pay them. How they get reimbursed I do not know.

Since both owners are dead, who would pay? I suspect the county handles this stuff.

such a biatch! :lmao:Hey, you're her biatch right now. She owns you! :lol:

It just had a $20k price cut yesterday to $629,900.

1800 Candlelight Ct, Owings, MD 20736 MLS# CA7839827 - Zillow (http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1800-Candlelight-Ct-Owings-MD-20736/50895843_zpid/)

How did it gain almost $90k in 2 years when most houses have been losing value?

Hey, you're her biatch right now. She owns you! :lol:

I will always be a better speller than her though!! :diva:

It just had a $20k price cut yesterday to $629,900.

1800 Candlelight Ct, Owings, MD 20736 MLS# CA7839827 - Zillow (http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1800-Candlelight-Ct-Owings-MD-20736/50895843_zpid/)

How did it gain almost $90k in 2 years when most houses have been losing value?

How is it still on the market with fire damage?

The DISPATCHER calls the company, not the on scene personnel.

I'm pretty sure (could be wrong) the authorities cannot leave a hazmat area like this. They will call the company & pay them. How they get reimbursed I do not know.

Since both owners are dead, who would pay? I suspect the county handles this stuff.

DISPATCHER isn't going to hire a company to clean the scene.

and I KNOW for a fact, that they did leave the scene of a murder/suicide and the FAMILY cleaned up the scene. I was there. Not something I will forget easily.

I will always be a better speller than her though!! :diva:

Get off the throne! :boxing: :razz:

It just had a $20k price cut yesterday to $629,900.

1800 Candlelight Ct, Owings, MD 20736 MLS# CA7839827 - Zillow (http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1800-Candlelight-Ct-Owings-MD-20736/50895843_zpid/)

How did it gain almost $90k in 2 years when most houses have been losing value?

WHO did the price cutting??

Get off the throne! :boxing: :razz:

I'm not on the throne.....I took a dump earlier this morning... :party:

DISPATCHER isn't going to hire a company to clean the scene.

and I KNOW for a fact, that they did leave the scene of a murder/suicide and the FAMILY cleaned up the scene. I was there. Not something I will forget easily.When did this happen and where?

When did this happen and where?

trust me it did happen... and she HELPED clean it up
(and was on scene when they were able to gain entry to the house).... very, very sad day

2004 in St. Marys

It's pretty unfortunate that this thread turned into a "how in the hell did they afford this big ass house?", to "how much do you think he earned?", to "were they in financial distress?".

The only thing on my mind is that there is a 12-year old boy who has lost everything that he has ever known. A mother who probably was his entire world. A sibling who he was just getting to know. A father....as bad as the situation ultimately turned.... that this child still probably loved.

He is now alone in the world.

The people that most loved him in the world are no more.

That breaks my heart.

The DISPATCHER calls the company, not the on scene personnel.

I'm pretty sure (could be wrong) the authorities cannot leave a hazmat area like this. They will call the company & pay them. How they get reimbursed I do not know.

Since both owners are dead, who would pay? I suspect the county handles this stuff.

police department/sheriff's dept hands off the name of critical incident cleanup companies that are available in the area. being that the homeowners are both deceased, the information may possibly get passed on to next of kin, estate reps, etc.,. The homeowners insurance covers the CIC bill... at least most insurance policies cover it. (unknown fact by many homeowners) but my former husband was a partner in a cleanup company so this is factual, not just my guess. the home is closed up tight until a company is hired - the police/fire dept are released from the scene once their specific work is done. in the event of a suicide, where other family members are still living in the home, these companies are usually on the scene before the police are finished their investigation and get the work started as soon as they get the okay from the police. they are 24/7 companies. my husband spent many nights running to/from incidents all hours of the night. his specific company was also a licensed transport company, and transfered the body to the morgue in baltimore. morbid yes, but someone had to to do it.

It's pretty unfortunate that this thread turned into a "how in the hell did they afford this big ass house?", to "how much do you think he earned?", to "were they in financial distress?".

The only thing on my mind is that there is a 12-year old boy who has lost everything that he has ever known. A mother who probably was his entire world. A sibling who he was just getting to know. A father....as bad as the situation ultimately turned.... that this child still probably loved.

He is now alone in the world.

The people that most loved him in the world are no more.

That breaks my heart.

Well, hopefully he survives. I think he is still critical.

Who was the older woman who ran out of the house and called 911?
Grandmother?
Living there to watch the kids while parents worked?
Just wondering...

It's pretty unfortunate that this thread turned into a "how in the hell did they afford this big ass house?", to "how much do you think he earned?", to "were they in financial distress?".

The only thing on my mind is that there is a 12-year old boy who has lost everything that he has ever known. A mother who probably was his entire world. A sibling who he was just getting to know. A father....as bad as the situation ultimately turned.... that this child still probably loved.

He is now alone in the world.

The people that most loved him in the world are no more.

That breaks my heart.

I agree with you completely. We can all sit here and ASSume why he may've turned into Satan yesterday...was it due to marital problems, financial problems, etc? But really, what does that matter at this point? A wife and an innocent 2 year old little girl were brutally murdered by a monster they trusted and loved. A 12 year old little boy has lost everything he's ever known. All that's on my mind is that I hope he pulls through and that he has family to love him through this nightmare.

My hubby said, "I would've taken those kids if he didn't want them anymore. Who does this sh!t?" He's a POS and will rot in hell, no doubt.

Who was the older woman who ran out of the house and called 911?
Grandmother?
Living there to watch the kids while parents worked?
Just wondering...

Cynthia's Great Aunt

Who was the older woman who ran out of the house and called 911?
Grandmother?
Living there to watch the kids while parents worked?
Just wondering...

I think it was the wife's great Aunt. Not sure if she babysat the kids or what but my understanding is that both parents worked.

Oh dear.

Cynthia's Great Aunt

Thank you. So at least the boy has family. :huggy:

Noooooo....... the on scene EMS don't call them. The dispatcher does. The police will tape off the area until a hazmat team arrives.

You would think that is the case but it's not.
Once the police are done with their investigation they leave.
If asked they may offer 'suggestions' on who to call.

It's up to the homeowner or family to arrange to have cleaned.

The DISPATCHER calls the company, not the on scene personnel.

I'm pretty sure (could be wrong) the authorities cannot leave a hazmat area like this. They will call the company & pay them. How they get reimbursed I do not know.

Since both owners are dead, who would pay? I suspect the county handles this stuff.

If it's a private residence and the door can be locked shut then it is left.
It's up to the homeowner (now probably the bank in this case) to call for a cleaning company.
Believe it or not but a homeowners policy could cover all or part of this.
The county does not get involved unless it is in a public area.

trust me it did happen... and she HELPED clean it up
(and was on scene when they were able to gain entry to the house).... very, very sad day

2004 in St. MarysI wasn't questioning if it happened. When & where is important. 2004 in St. Mary's is some time ago. Regulations change.

AA County is prolly more up to date on this stuff than St. Mary's as evidenced by SoMDGirl42 being allowed to do the clean up herself. That's not likely to happen today.

You would think that is the case but it's not.
Once the police are done with their investigation they leave.
If asked they may offer 'suggestions' on who to call.

It's up to the homeowner or family to arrange to have cleaned.

If it's a private residence and the door can be locked shut then it is left.
It's up to the homeowner (now probably the bank in this case) to call for a cleaning company.
Believe it or not but a homeowners policy could cover all or part of this.
The county does not get involved unless it is in a public area.Sounds good to me. :yay:

I wasn't questioning if it happened. When & where is important. 2004 in St. Mary's is some time ago. Regulations change.

AA County is prolly more up to date on this stuff than St. Mary's as evidenced by SoMDGirl42 being allowed to do the clean up herself. That's not likely to happen today.


Family members/citizens CAN do it themselves, however, most elect NOT to. there is no statute/law that says a certified cleaning company MUST do it.

Doesn't it make you people feel weird to just overtly stalk strangers like that?


It's pretty unfortunate that this thread turned into a "how in the hell did they afford this big ass house?", to "how much do you think he earned?", to "were they in financial distress?".

The only thing on my mind is that there is a 12-year old boy who has lost everything that he has ever known. A mother who probably was his entire world. A sibling who he was just getting to know. A father....as bad as the situation ultimately turned.... that this child still probably loved.

He is now alone in the world.

The people that most loved him in the world are no more.

That breaks my heart.

I agree with you completely. We can all sit here and ASSume why he may've turned into Satan yesterday...was it due to marital problems, financial problems, etc? But really, what does that matter at this point? A wife and an innocent 2 year old little girl were brutally murdered by a monster they trusted and loved. A 12 year old little boy has lost everything he's ever known. All that's on my mind is that I hope he pulls through and that he has family to love him through this nightmare.

My hubby said, "I would've taken those kids if he didn't want them anymore. Who does this sh!t?" He's a POS and will rot in hell, no doubt.


I think some of us are just looking for causes as to how something this tragic could happen. We were talking about this yesterday in our office saying that it is our hope that if somebody is going through a long standing domestic situation that they decide to change their own life from what they have heard or seen here. I know I’m interrogating by nature and that suits me well in certain situations. I want to understand *HOW* something like this could happen and it isn’t because I’m an uncaring person. In fact, I know that I am well above average when it comes to genuinely caring for others. It may be hard to believe by some, but I’m a huge cry baby with a very large heart that has a strong compassion for others when I know the victims didn't have any role in the outcome. Example... I bawled my eyes out just seeing the photos of the victims of the movie shooting knowing that there are family members left behind who have to live without them and live with the fact that they were robbed of life by a crazy lunatic. I believe Frank Jr. will survive, or at least it is my hope he does, and that he can look past the scars that are not only seen but those scars that are not seen and come to find his way in life. It doesn’t take that much intelligence to see those things apparent here from what is available on the internet and because of that I do believe Frank Jr. grew up (so far) in a volatile situation consisting of domestic violence and who knows what else. It has just got to get better for him from here on out. He deserves it.

I wasn't questioning if it happened. When & where is important. 2004 in St. Mary's is some time ago. Regulations change.

AA County is prolly more up to date on this stuff than St. Mary's as evidenced by SoMDGirl42 being allowed to do the clean up herself. That's not likely to happen today.

Wrong.
Clean up is not a police problem, in any county, unless it is in a PUBLIC area.

SoMDGirl42 is a wonderful person for doing the clean up for someone.
I could not do it myself.

Family members/citizens CAN do it themselves, however, most elect NOT to. there is no statute/law that says a certified cleaning company MUST do it.You want to double check that?

According to the OSHA standard CFR 29 1910.1030, “personnel associated with the biological clean up must be trained, immunized and properly equipped to do so”. Biohazard Cleanup Laws (http://www.biotrauma.com/n~81~biohazard-cleanup-laws.php)

FAQ
Q: Why can't I do bio-hazard clean up myself?

A: There a great deal of state and federal mandates that govern the bio-hazard clean up industry. There are a great number of risks for a business who chooses to perform bio-hazard clean up internally, including:

Employee exposure to hazards that can cause numerous diseases and medical conditions. Among these are Critical Incident Stress Syndrome and Secondary Traumatic Stress Disorder. Exposure can result in workers compensation claims and other liabilities.

State and Federal mandates have been established regulating the collection, handling, and disposal of human bio-hazardous waste. Companies can face serious penalties for not adhering to these regulations.

Personnel conducting hazardous water collection and disposal are required to follow specific training and medical mandates set by state and federal agencies. Failure to comply can result in serious penalties.

Wrong.
Clean up is not a police problem, in any county, unless it is in a PUBLIC area.

SoMDGirl42 is a wonderful person for doing the clean up for someone.
I could not do it myself.

It had to be done. At the time, no one was in the frame of mind to look for someone else to do it. I think we also have more information available via the internet now as compared to then.

I know what this young boy has ahead of him. I pray for a full recovery, both mentally as well as physically. I pray his family will make sure to treat both. The mental scars are sometimes worse than the physical ones.

You want to double check that?

I think that pertains to a business regarding biohazard. You need to find regulations on a private residence. :shrug:

Where is the "biohazard" in this?

I think that pertains to a business regarding biohazard. You need to find regulations on a private residence. :shrug:
It does not differentiate between business or residential. They are State & Federal Regs.

Here's more...

Besides the Federal Government's OSHA standards, many state Health, OSHA or EPA departments have created similar standards and regulations. Similarly, the Center for Disease Control establishes standards and regulations for working with blood soiled environments as well as exposure reporting.
Crime scene cleanup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_scene_cleanup#cite_note-0)

Where is the "biohazard" in this?
Because it involves blood.

It does not differentiate between business or residential. They are State & Federal Regs.

Here's more...

Can I have an employee, family member, or colleague clean the crime scene?

Federal Regulation 29CFR1910.1030 states that no employee can be placed in a position to be exposed to blood spills without first:

1.Receiving blood-borne pathogen (BBP) training.
2.Having a written BBP exposure control plan.
3.Having been provided personal protective equipment.
4.Having been offered Hepatitis B vaccine and exposure evaluation and follow-up.
5.Being provided with a method to remove and properly store the bio-hazardous waste in properly marked containers for disposal at an approved site.


All employee regulations. Family members are not employees.

Agree to disagree? or find me a regulation that states private residence.

Baja, does someone need to start a rabid pit-bull thread for you to move away from this topic?

If so, I'll dig one up for you to jump on. :yay:

It does not differentiate between business or residential. They are State & Federal Regs..

'OCCUPATIONAL' Safety and Health Administration creates safety and health regulation for the WORK PLACE.

Baja, does someone need to start a rabid pit-bull thread for you to move away from this topic?

If so, I'll dig one up for you to jump on. :yay::killingme
No dammit!!

"I am the owner of a Crime and Trauma Scene Decontamination Company. I am very sorry to hear about the tragedy that happened today. If the family is looking for a company to help get the house back together we are equipped to handle this delicate matter. Please have them contact us at 443-220-8205 we are available 24 hours a day 7 days a week."

I think my bathrooms qualify, I'm calling these guys!

Can I have an employee, family member, or colleague clean the crime scene?

Federal Regulation 29CFR1910.1030 states that no employee can be placed in a position to be exposed to blood spills without first:

1.Receiving blood-borne pathogen (BBP) training.
2.Having a written BBP exposure control plan.
3.Having been provided personal protective equipment.
4.Having been offered Hepatitis B vaccine and exposure evaluation and follow-up.
5.Being provided with a method to remove and properly store the bio-hazardous waste in properly marked containers for disposal at an approved site.


All employee regulations. Family members are not employees.

Agree to disagree? or find me a regulation that states private residence.

Meh. When faced with that kind of situation some years back, I just took a 5-gallon bucket and a flat shovel and cleaned up the worst of it..then a garden hose and a big scrub brush for the rest.

But I was the owner of the place and not an employee..so I guess I didn't violate any rules...?

Meh. When faced with that kind of situation some years back, I just took a 5-gallon bucket and a flat shovel and cleaned up the worst of it..then a garden hose and a big scrub brush for the rest.

But I was the owner of the place and not an employee..so I guess I didn't violate any rules...?I'm strugglin to verify that....:lmao:

Baja you are an idjit. Your postings would imply we need to hire profession services to clear the area of a dropped tampon.

Nothing I've read stops personal clean-up of a crime scene. What you keep quoting is the rules/regulations for someone who makes a business of it.

Baja you are an idjit. Your postings would imply we need to hire profession services to clear the area of a dropped tampon.

Nothing I've read stops personal clean-up of a crime scene. What you keep quoting is the rules/regulations for someone who makes a business of it.

I'm pretty sure OSHA is for the workplace also.

Hence the "Occupational", in Occupational Safety & Health Administration.

I'm pretty sure OSHA is for the workplace also.

Hence the "Occupational", in Occupational Safety & Health Administration.
We are talking about a private residence and not a workplace.

We are talking about a private residence and not a workplace.

Exactly my point...

Baja you are an idjit. Your postings would imply we need to hire profession services to clear the area of a dropped tampon.

.

I could see that. Cleaning up random chunks of flesh and congealed blood is one thing, but used wimmins personal items like that is something altogether different...

I'm strugglin to verify that....:lmao:

concede already. I owned you on this one. :diva:

You want to double check that?

No thanks, i stand with what i said originally.

I hope that the Boy does OK also. The thing that scares me is with cases like this, those left behind suffer from Survivor's Guilt. I'm sure he will have the best Medical/Mental services, but I still worry about him.

wondered the same thing. He had judgements against him a few years back then all of a sudden he has a house that size with a gorgeous pool, brand new cars.?.?. Something seemed amiss to me.

Obviously something was. It does no good to speculate at this point but it does make one wonder. She had two restraining orders against him for domestic abuse and filed for divorce in 2007.....and then bought an almost $600K house with him in 2010 AND had another kid??

Baja you are an idjit. Your postings would imply we need to hire profession services to clear the area of a dropped tampon.

Nothing I've read stops personal clean-up of a crime scene. What you keep quoting is the rules/regulations for someone who makes a business of it.Look missy! I've dated wimmins that you would call a professional to pick up her tampon!! :faint:

This was me after she agreed to sleep with me.

Doesn't it make you people feel weird to just overtly stalk strangers like that?

"I'm going to case search those SOBs and REALLY air the dirty laundry while the rest of the family has to make funeral arrangements!"

Look missy! I've dated wimmins that you would call a professional to pick up her tampon!! :faint:

This was me after she agreed to sleep with me.

So, did you still sleep with her? :popcorn:

So, did you still sleep with her? :popcorn:You saw me suited up and ready to go in!

I got the suit off just before it disintegrated and burned me. :yikes:

I would have found that information to he helpful, and not at all insensitive.

My friend, who had to clean up the brain debris from her father's suicide, would have gladly used this service.

I liked this movie, but then anything with Amy Adams in it I like - Sunshine Cleaning

Sunshine Cleaning (2008) - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0862846/)

iHDXkV6T_N8

I hope that the Boy does OK also. The thing that scares me is with cases like this, those left behind suffer from Survivor's Guilt. I'm sure he will have the best Medical/Mental services, but I still worry about him.

I ran across this today. I'm very happy he has recovered enough to leave the hospital. I hope his recovery continues. :yahoo: What a survivor!

Md. boy who survived murder-suicide released from hospital - WTOP.com (http://wtop.com/93/3012883/Md-boy-who-survived-murder-suicide-released-from-hospital)

I ran across this today. I'm very happy he has recovered enough to leave the hospital. I hope his recovery continues. :yahoo: What a survivor!

Md. boy who survived murder-suicide released from hospital - WTOP.com (http://wtop.com/93/3012883/Md-boy-who-survived-murder-suicide-released-from-hospital)

I had the pleasure of meeting this little boy. He is a great kid. He is healing well and has moved to Georgia with his Uncle. His Uncle is absolutely wonderful with him. He is very attatched to him and he will be living with his 3cousins also, one of which he grew up with (until they recently moved). They are having one more fundraiser this sunday for him at North Beach. I am sure he will have survivors guilt as well as ptsd as he remembers all of the events of that day. His Aunt, Uncle and Grandparents will make sure he gets very good care :)

I had the pleasure of meeting this little boy. He is a great kid. He is healing well and has moved to Georgia with his Uncle. His Uncle is absolutely wonderful with him. He is very attatched to him and he will be living with his 3cousins also, one of which he grew up with (until they recently moved). They are having one more fundraiser this sunday for him at North Beach. I am sure he will have survivors guilt as well as ptsd as he remembers all of the events of that day. His Aunt, Uncle and Grandparents will make sure he gets very good care :)

It's awesome to hear that he's recovering so well physical. I hope he's able to handle the mental side though. I cannot imagine....