So I figure I either need to get a generator or a battery backup sump pump in case I lose power again during a storm (and don't feel like bailing out my basement by hand).

I think the genny is my best bet, but don't think my house is wired for one. Can anyone recommend a service, or electrician who could run the circuit?

Thank you,

-Hodr

Where you are located would help a lot....

I have a propane 12KW Generac as primary back up..

Get the battery back up sump pump whether you have a generator or not. If you get the generator that will be one less thing drawing power.

A genny just for a sump pump may be overkill. Most people opt for battery backup, with a genny to recharge, if need be.

Consider: A small genny is not usually self starting. You are away from the house. Power goes out. No one there to start the genny, possible flood. With battery backup, you may get power restored before you exhaust the battery.

Self-starting gennys are usually larger, whole house units, and are much more expensive.

If your thought is a genny for whole house backup, then you'll need to size out the house and what you want to run, then put in an appropriate wiring from the breaker panel to an outdoor outlet, or directly wired into a transfer switch. The wiring and transfer switch get pricey, more so for the electrician's time.

Cheap, fast and fairly reliable is battery backup. Then you can consider a generator source later as time and money permit.

Thanks for the quick responses guys. I live in Lexington Park in an area that thankfully doesn't lose power too often, but when it does go I assume it will be for a decent amount of time.

If I went the generator route I would expect it to power just the fridge, sump, a couple of CFLs and maybe a TV. If it was big enough to power the AC that would be nice, but probably not a deal breaker.

Although as you mentioned, if I happened to be out of town when the power went out it wouldn't matter how good the generator is.

------Edit------

I do have natural gas run to the house.

Thanks for the quick responses guys. I live in Lexington Park in an area that thankfully doesn't lose power too often, but when it does go I assume it will be for a decent amount of time.

If I went the generator route I would expect it to power just the fridge, sump, a couple of CFLs and maybe a TV. If it was big enough to power the AC that would be nice, but probably not a deal breaker.

Although as you mentioned, if I happened to be out of town when the power went out it wouldn't matter how good the generator is.

------Edit------

I do have natural gas run to the house.

If you are going to die in that house then go for a whole house 12kw and hook it to the natural gas. My FIL and BIL went this route with underground tanks for the supply.

I have a 2200 watt genny, would prefer a 3500 or larger. It will run the fridge, TV, lights, and a freezer if I stagger the startup load. Something to note: an old CRT TV draws less power than an LCD TV. I can hear the genny load and drag when I turn on the LCD TV, never did with the 20" CRT.

If you want to run and a/c, water heater, stove, anything 240v, you need to dramatically step up the genny rating.

During Isabel, we were without power for 7 days, and we've routinely lost power at other times for 2+ days. We are a family of 7 (kids are ages 2-8), and my husband doesn't tolerate heat well (overheats VERY easily), plus we have critters and therefore a relatively constant need for water, heat/AC, etc (to be comfortable - not envisioning an end-of-the-world scenario here).

So, when we put on an addition 3yrs ago, we opted to put in a whole-house generator. Its 17KW and powers the major stuff - heat/AC for one section of the house, septic, water pump, water heater, fridge & freezer, and some "creature comforts" to keep the kids sane while we're out cutting up fallen trees (which is inevitably what we are doing during a power outage). It is powered by our in-ground propane tank (that we rarely ever use, since most of our house is powered by electric at the moment)...

It cost us about $7K, including the unit, permits, installation, etc. So far, we've had to use it for about 3 days (don't remember the storm), and it ATE through propane...but saved about $1500 worth of meet in the freezer, allowed us to do basic cooking, etc. So...can't say that it's exactly paid itself off yet, but...I *do* feel more comfortably knowing its there if we need it! It kicks in about 20s after power goes out, so we don't have to worry about "what if we're not home..."

Guess it all depends on what you're looking for!

ddd

Keep in mind that generators, no matter what type are rated at 50% load capacity normally. So, if you do not need it then leave it off. Fans instead of AC. Washer, Dryers even the Hot Water Heater can be cycled to reduce load and increase run time. Just a thought.

Keep in mind that generators, no matter what type are rated at 50% load capacity normally. So, if you do not need it then leave it off. Fans instead of AC. Washer, Dryers even the Hot Water Heater can be cycled to reduce load and increase run time. Just a thought.Who told you this? Not true.

I am getting a 17 kw genny from K&H electric, give them a call.

Who told you this? Not true.

Home Standby Generator Fuel Consumption | Frequently Asked Questions | Customer Support | Briggs & Stratton (http://www.briggsandstratton.com/support/frequently-asked-questions/generator-fuel-supply-requirements/)

Honda EU6500iS Generator 6500 watt Inverter, Super Quiet WiseSales.com (http://www.wisesales.com/eu6500isa-honda-generator.html#.UDOZnqC07YE)

Powerhorse Portable Generator with Electric Start — 9000 Surge Watts, 7250 Rated Watts | 7,000 - 9,999 Watts| Northern Tool + Equipment (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200419025_200419025)

Generac Power Systems - Guardian Series 17 kW (http://www.generac.com/Residential/Guardian/Products/Guardian_Series_17_kW/)

Look at the spec sheets. The Generac lists theirs as fuel consumption at half and full load. The portables with exception of one is based on 50% load and the one 25% load. So do the math....

I guess maybe I had the wrong idea of what was involved with a generator install. I definitely do not need a whole house unit. What I would need, if anything, is something to keep the lights on and the sump pump working. Creature comforts are not that big of a deal.

I was making the assumption that I could have a panel put in my garage, and use a portable unit with a "snorkel" (thats probably the wrong term) to vent the exhaust out of the garage.

However, after reading this thread it sounds like I may be better off with a battery back-up sump pump. Amazon reviews for those don't seem to be all that informative though.

-Hodr

A genny just for a sump pump may be overkill. Most people opt for battery backup, with a genny to recharge, if need be.

Consider: A small genny is not usually self starting. You are away from the house. Power goes out. No one there to start the genny, possible flood. With battery backup, you may get power restored before you exhaust the battery.

Self-starting gennys are usually larger, whole house units, and are much more expensive.

If your thought is a genny for whole house backup, then you'll need to size out the house and what you want to run, then put in an appropriate wiring from the breaker panel to an outdoor outlet, or directly wired into a transfer switch. The wiring and transfer switch get pricey, more so for the electrician's time.

Cheap, fast and fairly reliable is battery backup. Then you can consider a generator source later as time and money permit.

I'd disagree slightly. Battery backups get you a few hours, you definitely need a generator source to back it up even if it's a little portable one as you mentioned. During Isabel last year one of my neighbors had been offered a little generator for just in case before the storm by a friend who had an extra one. They refused on the basis that they didn't think they would need it and they had just gotten a battery backup installed on their sump. The next day found them carrying things out of their basement as it had 7 inches of water in it after the battery backup ran out of juice.

I guess maybe I had the wrong idea of what was involved with a generator install. I definitely do not need a whole house unit. What I would need, if anything, is something to keep the lights on and the sump pump working. Creature comforts are not that big of a deal.

I was making the assumption that I could have a panel put in my garage, and use a portable unit with a "snorkel" (thats probably the wrong term) to vent the exhaust out of the garage.

However, after reading this thread it sounds like I may be better off with a battery back-up sump pump. Amazon reviews for those don't seem to be all that informative though.

-Hodr

Regardless of what you decide on a genny, get a battery backup.


What you can do is hire an electrician to put in a lockout breaker and outdoor outlet specifically for the generator. When the power goes out, you turn on the outdoor outlet breaker which forces you to turn off the main breaker. You plug your generator into the outdoor outlet and feed the house. Doesn't have to be a huge whole-house generator, but it should be capable of 240V. You turn off whatever breakers you don't want/can't use. Figure about $5-600.
The genny would need to be outside, not in the garage. A snorkel will not work.

Home Standby Generator Fuel Consumption | Frequently Asked Questions | Customer Support | Briggs & Stratton (http://www.briggsandstratton.com/support/frequently-asked-questions/generator-fuel-supply-requirements/)

Honda EU6500iS Generator 6500 watt Inverter, Super Quiet WiseSales.com (http://www.wisesales.com/eu6500isa-honda-generator.html#.UDOZnqC07YE)

Powerhorse Portable Generator with Electric Start — 9000 Surge Watts, 7250 Rated Watts | 7,000 - 9,999 Watts| Northern Tool + Equipment (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200419025_200419025)

Generac Power Systems - Guardian Series 17 kW (http://www.generac.com/Residential/Guardian/Products/Guardian_Series_17_kW/)

Look at the spec sheets. The Generac lists theirs as fuel consumption at half and full load. The portables with exception of one is based on 50% load and the one 25% load. So do the math....

80% is the target number you're looking for.

Regardless of what you decide on a genny, get a battery backup.


What you can do is hire an electrician to put in a lockout breaker and outdoor outlet specifically for the generator. When the power goes out, you turn on the outdoor outlet breaker which forces you to turn off the main breaker. You plug your generator into the outdoor outlet and feed the house. Doesn't have to be a huge whole-house generator, but it should be capable of 240V. You turn off whatever breakers you don't want/can't use. Figure about $5-600.
The genny would need to be outside, not in the garage. A snorkel will not work.

Ok, I will probably do both of these things. What I could find on Amazon looked pretty chinsy, is there a company out here that will sell (and install) a good DC backup sump with battery and charge controller? If not, can anyone at least recommend a good setup?

Ok, I will probably do both of these things. What I could find on Amazon looked pretty chinsy, is there a company out here that will sell (and install) a good DC backup sump with battery and charge controller? If not, can anyone at least recommend a good setup?

Zoeller pumps. You can get these at Thomas Somerville Plumbing supply and they are easy to install if you are handy with the tools if not, any plumber can install it.

http://www.sumppumpsdirect.com/pumps/zoeller-basement-sentry-system.html

I have a 2200 watt genny, would prefer a 3500 or larger. It will run the fridge, TV, lights, and a freezer if I stagger the startup load. Something to note: an old CRT TV draws less power than an LCD TV. I can hear the genny load and drag when I turn on the LCD TV, never did with the 20" CRT.

If you want to run and a/c, water heater, stove, anything 240v, you need to dramatically step up the genny rating.

If I ever step up to a bigger one, which I will do if I stay here, you can get my 3500 Honda at a good price. Maybe 100 hours on it. Always started and checked a couple times a year. Had it since the ice storm.

If I ever step up to a bigger one, which I will do if I stay here, you can get my 3500 Honda at a good price. Maybe 100 hours on it. Always started and checked a couple times a year. Had it since the ice storm.

Much appreciated, but since we all know you're Desert Bound, I see little chance of that happening! :lol:

I do the same with my Honda, and have had it since '84. It got a good workout in many hurricane outages here and in NY, but is reliable as heck. Honda makes a great product.

Home Standby Generator Fuel Consumption | Frequently Asked Questions | Customer Support | Briggs & Stratton (http://www.briggsandstratton.com/support/frequently-asked-questions/generator-fuel-supply-requirements/)

Honda EU6500iS Generator 6500 watt Inverter, Super Quiet WiseSales.com (http://www.wisesales.com/eu6500isa-honda-generator.html#.UDOZnqC07YE)

Powerhorse Portable Generator with Electric Start — 9000 Surge Watts, 7250 Rated Watts | 7,000 - 9,999 Watts| Northern Tool + Equipment (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200419025_200419025)

Generac Power Systems - Guardian Series 17 kW (http://www.generac.com/Residential/Guardian/Products/Guardian_Series_17_kW/)

Look at the spec sheets. The Generac lists theirs as fuel consumption at half and full load. The portables with exception of one is based on 50% load and the one 25% load. So do the math....You are confusing fuel consumption with kW rating. They are only giving you an idea how much fuel a unit will use.

The units are rated at 100% of their kW, not 50.

A generator is a good idea even if you never use it. You'll use it. Used mine after Isabel. Ran lights, Frig and separate freezer, microwave and the deep well pump, a necessity for flushing toilets.

You are confusing fuel consumption with kW rating. They are only giving you an idea how much fuel a unit will use.

The units are rated at 100% of their kW, not 50.

I was stating; "run time for a generator was based on 50% load (i.e. 8hours @ 50% load)". To me that means that if I have a 8000 watt Gen (Not Start-up) but actual run wattage, I would be able to run that generator for 8 hours if I am running a load equal to 50% of the rated generator or 4000 watts. That is pretty much what I have read in all the research I have done over the years when thinking about a generator. Maybe I am wrong on what that means in all the literature that is out there. I do agree that a 8kw gen is an 8kw gen and is rated at 100% as 8kw. So no argument there.

Regardless of what you decide on a genny, get a battery backup.


What you can do is hire an electrician to put in a lockout breaker and outdoor outlet specifically for the generator. When the power goes out, you turn on the outdoor outlet breaker which forces you to turn off the main breaker. You plug your generator into the outdoor outlet and feed the house. Doesn't have to be a huge whole-house generator, but it should be capable of 240V. You turn off whatever breakers you don't want/can't use. Figure about $5-600.
The genny would need to be outside, not in the garage. A snorkel will not work.

You can get a panel interlock kit, not sure how many electricians would be willing to install though. Usually a manual or automatic transfer switch is installed. Preventing any backfeed to the power grid is the only right way to install a generator......Panel Interlock Kit Kits - for safely connecting generator power without a transfer switch (http://www.nooutage.com/interlock_kits.htm)
Their home page has some other useful info

You can get a panel interlock kit, not sure how many electricians would be willing to install though. Usually a manual or automatic transfer switch is installed. Preventing any backfeed to the power grid is the only right way to install a generator......Panel Interlock Kit Kits - for safely connecting generator power without a transfer switch (http://www.nooutage.com/interlock_kits.htm)
Their home page has some other useful info

I had a new panel put in, and Mattingly added the interlock (thank you, couldn't remember the word interlock...) and breaker for me, as well as the feed and outlet. I got the impression that this is a pretty standard setup if you don't have a transfer switch.

So I figure I either need to get a generator or a battery backup sump pump in case I lose power again during a storm (and don't feel like bailing out my basement by hand).

I think the genny is my best bet, but don't think my house is wired for one. Can anyone recommend a service, or electrician who could run the circuit?

Thank you,

-Hodr

Like another stated, 80% maximum load for rated running amps is your target. I was always taught 65% to 80% is what you are shooting for when sizing your generator. It is important to remember these couple of hints. (1) you can kill a lineman by not properly installing a whole house system properly via electrical code. (2) a generator needs a load applied to it for a long life. In other words you always want to run a generator with over 50% load of " running amps" not starting amps and not over the 80% run rating for more than a few seconds. (compressors and such require a high startup load) You need to really think about exactly what you want to run during a power outage and make sure those devices keep a load on the generator. One of the biggest failures for generators in both overseas conflicts were generators oversized for the Operating Bases various configurations for loads. The first thing we used to do when ariving at a F.O.B was to look at removing generators with smaller units or re-directing cables to apply load for longer life. (3) drain your fuel tank during storage. bad fuel can destroy a generator over a long storage period A whole house system with nat or lp you need not worry. the main thing is don't play with the safety regarding the wiring regardless if you go portable (I recomend for your situation) or whole house.

Last year a friend that had a battery backup got flooded because they was without power for so long. I still don't understand why a new house needs a sump pump, I have never lived in a house that would flood every time the power went off, nor would I want to.

I had a new panel put in, and Mattingly added the interlock (thank you, couldn't remember the word interlock...) and breaker for me, as well as the feed and outlet. I got the impression that this is a pretty standard setup if you don't have a transfer switch.

Great, they didn't use one of the newer style generator ready load centers (panel)? I wasn't sure how many of the "pros" would shy away from an interlock kit, not code approved, etc...

Great, they didn't use one of the newer style generator ready load centers (panel)? I wasn't sure how many of the "pros" would shy away from an interlock kit, not code approved, etc...

They meet code. In fact, code requires it for the external outlet if it's to be used as an input to the panel.

I suspect the load center panel was overkill as the generator I sized it for was not a whole house unit, and I had limited space for the panel.

Last year a friend that had a battery backup got flooded because they was without power for so long. I still don't understand why a new house needs a sump pump, I have never lived in a house that would flood every time the power went off, nor would I want to.

I wouldn't want to either...but many exist like that. My FIL's house here on the island had a "basement" utility space that would flood in nothing flat if the pump stopped working.

So I figure I either need to get a generator or a battery backup sump pump in case I lose power again during a storm (and don't feel like bailing out my basement by hand).

I think the genny is my best bet, but don't think my house is wired for one. Can anyone recommend a service, or electrician who could run the circuit?

Thank you,

-Hodr

I would like to apologize for all my commie pinko friends who are simply too un American to ask you the most important question first; what's your budget?

Generators are like anything else; it sounds expensive...as long as you don't need it. There is no fun like the fun you can have with the power out for a week or so and you constantly have to babysit a little unit that runs your toothbrush and maybe your well pump.

if you REALLY need it, a bad outage, you'll want hot water, well, fridge, freezer, microwave, lights, chargers of all shapes and sizes including for your power tools as well as sump pumps and, yes indeed, the AC.

A big unit (15-20kw) with auto transfer switch and exerciser does what you want it to do when you want it to do it. I'm guessing $20-25,000 installed these days. We have a 35kw diesel and it was $12,000, I installed it, 15 years ago.

You CAN get away with a little one (anything under 10kw) and, if you're gonna use it for other stuff AND you're good at paying attention to gas, what you have running, what you need, all that stuff, and maintain your stuff, by all means, you too, can have a light on for under $1,000.

So, lets talk budget...

Last year a friend that had a battery backup got flooded because they was without power for so long. I still don't understand why a new house needs a sump pump, I have never lived in a house that would flood every time the power went off, nor would I want to.

I have a double battery set up on both of my sump pumps. Fortunately during Irene we were able to get our hands on a small generator to recharge the batteries, but I don't think that they got below 25% cap after 4 days without power.

Just to further confuse things, let me throw another idea into the mix. The OP is in Lexington Park, so they likely have city water, which means that they could get a backup pump powered by water pressure. That's what is happening in my neighborhood now - the homes built before Isabel all have battery backup, and we had a number of flooded basements. (Not me, I didn't trust it and bought a small generator as a back up for the back up) The houses under construction now are getting water-powered pumps.

Much appreciated, but since we all know you're Desert Bound, I see little chance of that happening! :lol:

I do the same with my Honda, and have had it since '84. It got a good workout in many hurricane outages here and in NY, but is reliable as heck. Honda makes a great product.

Just realized even if I do move it's not coming with me.

A generator is a good idea even if you never use it. You'll use it. Used mine after Isabel. Ran lights, Frig and separate freezer, microwave and the deep well pump, a necessity for flushing toilets.

Yep. I have two neighbors that I hook up to my well when we lose power.

I would like to apologize for all my commie pinko friends who are simply too un American to ask you the most important question first; what's your budget?

Generators are like anything else; it sounds expensive...as long as you don't need it. There is no fun like the fun you can have with the power out for a week or so and you constantly have to babysit a little unit that runs your toothbrush and maybe your well pump.

if you REALLY need it, a bad outage, you'll want hot water, well, fridge, freezer, microwave, lights, chargers of all shapes and sizes including for your power tools as well as sump pumps and, yes indeed, the AC.

A big unit (15-20kw) with auto transfer switch and exerciser does what you want it to do when you want it to do it. I'm guessing $20-25,000 installed these days. We have a 35kw diesel and it was $12,000, I installed it, 15 years ago.

You CAN get away with a little one (anything under 10kw) and, if you're gonna use it for other stuff AND you're good at paying attention to gas, what you have running, what you need, all that stuff, and maintain your stuff, by all means, you too, can have a light on for under $1,000.

So, lets talk budget...

Not to mention the cost if your pipes freeze and break.

I had a new panel put in, and Mattingly added the interlock (thank you, couldn't remember the word interlock...) and breaker for me, as well as the feed and outlet. I got the impression that this is a pretty standard setup if you don't have a transfer switch.

Say it three times.

To answer the questions above, I am primarily concerned with flooding. So any generator I install will only really need to be sized to run a pump, my refridgerator, and a couple of lights. I am not adverse to roughing it for a few days if needs be.

I live in Lexington Park, and have the benefit of buried power lines all the way to the substation, so I have yet to experience more than a momentary power failure in the year that I have lived here. But I would still like to be careful.

My budget could be as much as a couple grand, but certainly not 20+. Also, I don't have the realestate (inside or out) to really support a whole house unit.

And lastly, I monitored my sump during the storm yesterday (Sunday, 8/26) and noticed that when it rained lightly the sump did not fill noticably at all. When it rained heavy it flowed in at a decent clip (maybe about equal to a bathroom faucet on half way) which caused the sump to kick on a couple of times an hour (mostly due I believe to the drain at the bottom of my basement steps).

Thanks again for all of the help.

Hodr
My next door neighbor has one of these and has loaned it to me during power outages, his is 2 years old and has never given him a problem yet. When he loans it to me i just run everything off of extension cords, which may be an additional cost for you. However again, this will not help your sump pump issue if you are not at home when the power goes out. He does have a battery backup system on his sumo pump also. Don't think for what you are looking for that you would need anything bigger generator wise, look at the link and you may decide to go with something smaller. Just remember generator outside, not even in the garage with the garage door open. When i used it i had it in my driveway about 10 ft. away from the garage door.

Briggs and Stratton 7000 Watt Portable Generator: Get Powered Up at Sears (http://www.sears.com/briggs-stratton-elite-series-8482-7000-watt-portable-generator/p-07133183000P?prdNo=8&blockNo=8&blockType=G8)

Whilst I have 15kw Onan mobile and 8kw Onan mobile and the 12kw Generac propane permanent unit...for pure utility and all-around good performance, my Honda 2000EU and 3000EU protables are my favorites. Take 'em camping..lend them to neighbors in hurricanes.. The 2000 (looks like a suitcase andd you carry it around like one) gets used for everything. Both are the quietest generators I've ever heard.

If you get Consumer Reports, this months has a review of portable and a few stationary generators. Can't scan and paste the review (copyright....) but here's a few of the highlights:

Rating Make Model Cost
1 TroyBuilt XP7000 900
2 Generac GP5500 670
3 TroyBuilt 6000 700
4 Honda EM6500EX 2800

The Generac was rated a Best Buy, all were recommended. They only tested 5000 watts to 7500.

Included in the rating were things like having to purchase a starter battery separately or wheels, inability to provide the surge demand, and a couple (Generac XG700E and B&S 30468) were under voltage at load (possible overheat/burnout conditions) giving them a really poor score. They also gave runtimes without refueling, but that's kind of moot without knowing how large the tank was.

And for anyone who wants to know, they rate a sump pump as needing 600 watts, same as a fridge.

A big unit (15-20kw) with auto transfer switch and exerciser does what you want it to do when you want it to do it. I'm guessing $20-25,000 installed these days. We have a 35kw diesel and it was $12,000, I installed it, 15 years ago.

You can get a 20Kw LP unit whole house genny installed for about 7-8 grand. That includes genny and installation.

You can get a 20Kw LP unit whole house genny installed for about 7-8 grand. That includes genny and installation.

That's awesome! :buddies:

And for anyone who wants to know, they rate a sump pump as needing 600 watts, same as a fridge.

Which makes this a good time to mention ohms law so folks can figure up their loads and needs.

Most appliances show voltage and amps. V*A = watts so, a 600 watt pump, assuming it is 120 volts, is 5 amps. If it is 220 volts then it's 2.7 amps BUT would need a generator capable of producing 220 power.

So, while 5kw (5,000 watts) may sound like a lot and 600 watts for a pump is not much, it is over 10% of what that 5k can do. Figure about 120 watts per light bulb you may want on. Fridge, deep freezer, something like 1000 w each. Or more. Not that you'd want to but, a typical cloths dryer would need something over 4000 watts. An electric hot water heater, you might really like after a few days, about the same.

Point is 5k ain't much. Real quick.

Which makes this a good time to mention ohms law so folks can figure up their loads and needs.
Wattage calculator.

Untitled Document (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/video/wattage_calculator/wattage_calclulator.html)

DoWhat, good list, the only real surprise i saw on it was coffee maker 1050. vs sump pump 600. Never knew a coffee maker would draw that much.

Which makes this a good time to mention ohms law ...

Isn't that where new age people sit around and go "OOOOOOOmmmmmmmm" ?

Isn't that where new age people sit around and go "OOOOOOOmmmmmmmm" ?

*groan*

DoWhat, good list, the only real surprise i saw on it was coffee maker 1050. vs sump pump 600. Never knew a coffee maker would draw that much.

Heating element has a constant draw versus a motor where the initial draw may be higher, but drops as the motor's own momentum helps things along.

Dont oversize the generator, the larger it is, the more propane it will waste at idle. The installers try to sell you the biggest unit they can, they do that by just adding up all your loads without taking into account that you won't run the range and the A/C at the same time.

Get a transfer panel with load-balancing. It will lock out certain circuits while a 'primary' circuit draws power (typically the A/C). That way, your generator only has to be sized for the biggest single load, if you need power for something else, e.g. to cook or to do laundry, you just switch the thermostat to 'off' for a while making all the power available for the other appliances.

Anyone ever heard of backfeeding? a guy says he uses a cord with a male plug on both ends. He shuts the main breaker off and plugs into an outlet and then into the gen.
I said that don't sound to good to me but he said he's never had a problem.
What do you think.?

Anyone ever heard of backfeeding? a guy says he uses a cord with a male plug on both ends. He shuts the main breaker off and plugs into an outlet and then into the gen.
I said that don't sound to good to me but he said he's never had a problem.
What do you think.?

I did that for years until I got the correct panel setup. It works fine but you have to be very aware of everything you're doing. One mistake can be big trouble.

You have to be certain the main breaker is off before you put power to the panel.
You have to be sure that all 240v breakers are turned off. Backfeeding is only good for feeding 1/2 of the breaker panel. You only feed one of two busses, 120v only.
You have to be sure the outlet you are plugging into is rated at least, if not higher than the amperage you are drawing in the house.

Anyone ever heard of backfeeding? a guy says he uses a cord with a male plug on both ends. He shuts the main breaker off and plugs into an outlet and then into the gen.


The device is called a 'suicide plug' for a reason.

If you want to use a portable generator, either get a proper transfer panel for a limited number of circuits installed, or get a lockout switch that separates your home from the utilities grid.



I said that don't sound to good to me but he said he's never had a problem.
What do you think.?

There are also contraptions that you can hook up to the ACs power outlet to backfeed into your home. Equally illegal and potentially deadly.

During Irene, we managed to keep the fish alive, the food in the fridge from spoiling & the beer & meat in the garage fridge & freezer cold with a 1400 watt Honda generator I found in the woods behind my house & got running with a $30 carb rebuild kit. I wouldn't trade that beat up old piece of crap for anything...but it is not enough & did 120v only. I worked it very hard, but it never gave up. I have a well, and after 5 days without power, we had just about emptied both bathtubs, so this thread is of interest to me. If I am going to have a generator, I'd like it to be big enough to run the 240v well pump, provide tepid water from the hot water heater and maybe one of my 2.5 ton heat pump units, not necessarily at the same time, while powering smaller appliances like a fridge or freezer. I have no problem managing the breakers myself & cycling thru from fridge to fridge every few hours..I don't need a whole house auto-start LPG/CNG, although I do have a Washington Gas line out at the street..that would be better than lugging jerry cans from the one gas station with electricity! :doh:

At any rate..I can do the math..I was just providing some history and my own personal desire/situation as it relates to this thread.

My father did the suicide plug because his generator was situated outside the basement near the dryer..if you forget the main breaker, you are backfeeding to the grid...I am pretty sure this is how the lineman get killed as noted farther up the thread. There are a lot of things I would never do the same way my father did.:whack:

A buddy of mine has some type of hookup for his generator from SMECO..he pays some nominal fee on his bill..I am guessing this is the interlock setup? Does anyone have more info on this? I hate paying a monthly fee for a service I would not use 99% of the time, but this would probably be the least intrusive and safest setup.

At this time, I have one of those 20amp 3-phase extension cords that has outlets every 10ft or so. That way the consumers are distributed along the different windings of the generator and you dont have this rats-nest of extension cables going out the door.

if you forget the main breaker, you are backfeeding to the grid...I am pretty sure this is how the lineman get killed as noted farther up the thread. There are a lot of things I would never do the same way my father did.:whack:


The linemen actually ground their lines while they work on them to take care of that risk. What will happen is that the moment grid power comes back on, your generator (and probably some of the wiring) get toasted before the various fuses in the system can trip.

Wattage calculator.

Untitled Document (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/video/wattage_calculator/wattage_calclulator.html)

Thanx I needed That:yahoo:

A buddy of mine has some type of hookup for his generator from SMECO..he pays some nominal fee on his bill..I am guessing this is the interlock setup? Does anyone have more info on this? I hate paying a monthly fee for a service I would not use 99% of the time, but this would probably be the least intrusive and safest setup.

Get a quote from an electrician to install the interlock breaker or transfer switch panel and outdoor outlet for you. One time cost, no SMECO involvement.

However, the breaker and outlet they would install would probably be 240v single phase, 30-50 amps typically, so you'd want a 240v genny. Use the sizing tool link earlier in this thread to assist you in figuring out how big a genny you need/want.

Get a quote from an electrician to install the interlock breaker or transfer switch panel and outdoor outlet for you. One time cost, no SMECO involvement.

However, the breaker and outlet they would install would probably be 240v single phase, 30-50 amps typically, so you'd want a 240v genny. Use the sizing tool link earlier in this thread to assist you in figuring out how big a genny you need/want.

Ok, so, the electrician installed interlock breaker & transfer switch panel would be the same thing SMECO would install, but I'd own it rather than 'leasing' it from them. Provided I am reading your statement correctly, that was the info I was looking for. Tx. :buddies:

I would definitely replace my generator..the 120v genny I have now would be used only for things like power tools at the boat or something..it is 1400 watts..the only reason I have it now is because it was free. I literally found it in the woods buried under several years of leaves..I think the renter neighbor (long gone) left it there when he moved out...it was closer to his back yard than mine.

However, the breaker and outlet they would install would probably be 240v single phase, 30-50 amps typically, so you'd want a 240v genny. Use the sizing tool link earlier in this thread to assist you in figuring out how big a genny you need/want.

That sizing tool is a bit crude. You can't just assume '5000W' for any kind of central A/C and it just adds up all the loads rather than taking into account that you can switch the water heater off while you cook etc.

If you dont already know, your AC guy can tell you how many tons your AC unit is which gives you a better handle on how many amps/watts you need for the generator (ACs tend to need oversized generators as they draw a lot during startup). Central AC/heatpump is typically going to be the load that defines how big of a generator you need.

Keep in mind that the cheap 10 and 15kW generators you see at the home improvement stores are very loud and suck down a lot of fuel. You may find that a 7 or 8kW unit would be all you need. Spring for electric start, particularly if you have to rely on others (wife/kids) to be able to start the thing in your absence.

taking into account that you won't run the range and the A/C at the same time. You're thinking of Heat & AC. You don't figure both in the calculation because they are what's called "non-coincidental" loads. They will never be on at the same time. Size your genny correctly and you can run the range and AC simultaneously.


Anyone ever heard of backfeeding? a guy says he uses a cord with a male plug on both ends. He shuts the main breaker off and plugs into an outlet and then into the gen.
I said that don't sound to good to me but he said he's never had a problem.
What do you think.?It's fine if you do it correctly. I back feed my house this way with a 240V genny. I turn off the main, the water heater & the AC (Genny is only a 4500). Works beautifully. I have power for light cooking, fridge, all lights & receptacles.


The device is called a 'suicide plug' for a reason. If you want to use a portable generator, either get a proper transfer panel for a limited number of circuits installed, or get a lockout switch that separates your home from the utilities grid.

There are also contraptions that you can hook up to the ACs power outlet to backfeed into your home. Equally illegal and potentially deadly.:bs: As I stated above, if you know what you're doing, they work fine.

That sizing tool is a bit crude. You can't just assume '5000W' for any kind of central A/C and it just adds up all the loads rather than taking into account that you can switch the water heater off while you cook etc.That's just stupid. If you're going whole house, size the thing correctly so you don't have to turn of anything. :duh:

That's just stupid. If you're going whole house, size the thing correctly so you don't have to turn of anything. :duh:

You'll also overpay by a couple thousand on the install and suck down your propane tank 3 days into the outage.

And no, I wasn't thinking about 'heat and AC', I was thinking about an electric range/cooktop and AC. While it would be nice to run those high-draw items at the same time, not doing so would be an easy compromise. Just switch off the AC while you cook or leave it to the load-center to do the switching. Same applies to the water heater. There is no downside to the load controller cycle off the water heater whenever the AC compressor is running, you'll still have plenty of hot water if it is limited to the times the AC load is off.

Seeing how a genny is a temporary, stop-gap, emergency measure to provide basic needs, I personally wouldn't spend the money to ensure that I could run a whole-house a/c + + +. I'd opt for a window unit, if absolutely necessary, at about 1/4 the watts required. Probably wouldn't even do that. As long as the fridge, network router and some lights work, I'm good. Hot water heater is good for about 3 days of hot water with no power. Anything else you can power is gravy.

If you have the money and just can't live without the creature comforts, by all means, size your genny for a whole house, unrestricted usage.

It's fine if you do it correctly. I back feed my house this way with a 240V genny. I turn off the main, the water heater & the AC (Genny is only a 4500). Works beautifully. I have power for light cooking, fridge, all lights & receptacles

Ok, So I have a 3750 surge and 3000-3500 constant genny. Why do I have to turn off the ac and water heater if I cut the main breaker?
Oh it's only 120 not 240

It's fine if you do it correctly. I back feed my house this way with a 240V genny. I turn off the main, the water heater & the AC (Genny is only a 4500). Works beautifully. I have power for light cooking, fridge, all lights & receptacles

Ok, So I have a 3750 surge and 3000-3500 constant genny. Why do I have to turn off the ac and water heater if I cut the main breaker?
Oh it's only 120 not 240

Right, if you are backfeeding with a 240v genny, you can leave the breakers on, but it's better to turn them off and turn them back on one at a time so you don't get a surge overload.

My comment about turning them off was using a 120v genny on only one phase of the panel.

Right, if you are backfeeding with a 240v genny, you can leave the breakers on, but it's better to turn them off and turn them back on one at a time so you don't get a surge overload.

My comment about turning them off was using a 120v genny on only one phase of the panel.

Ok, so I can just shut down the main breaker and backfeed into any outlet in the house?

Ok, so I can just shut down the main breaker and backfeed into any outlet in the house?

No. If the genny is 240v, you have to plug into a 240v outlet, like a dryer. If the genny is 120v, you can use any outlet**, but you have to turn off ALL 240v breakers and leave them off.

**20amp circuit preferred over 15amp.

No. If the genny is 240v, you have to plug into a 240v outlet, like a dryer. If the genny is 120v, you can use any outlet**, but you have to turn off ALL 240v breakers and leave them off.

**20amp circuit preferred over 15amp.

The genny is 120, doesn't shutting down the main breaker shut the 240 down?

The genny is 120, doesn't shutting down the main breaker shut the 240 down?

Please hire an electrician.

Please hire an electrician.

yeah, prolly just stick with extension cords.

The genny is 120, doesn't shutting down the main breaker shut the 240 down?
NO! The power from one phase of the panel goes out to the 240v appliance on the active buss. Since you're trying to power a 240v appliance with 120v instead of 240v, you damage both teh appliance and the genny.


Please hire an electrician.

^that. Please.

Please hire an electrician.

The electrician will tell you that backfeeding is dangerous and illegal unless you have either an interlock or a transfer switch that complies with local code.

QUOTE=GWguy;4916596]NO! The power from one phase of the panel goes out to the 240v appliance on the active buss. Since you're trying to power a 240v appliance with 120v instead of 240v, you damage both teh appliance and the genny.




^that. Please.[/QUOTE]

:stupid::bawl: You yelled at me.:bawl:

:stupid::bawl: You yelled at me.:bawl:

Better that than burning your house down....

:buddies:

Better that than burning your house down....

:buddies:

I'll stick with ext. cords.
I just shelled out cash for tree removal and driveway paving, so I'm strapped right now.
Thanks.

I'll stick with ext. cords.
I just shelled out cash for tree removal and driveway paving, so I'm strapped right now.
Thanks.

Also God forbid something went wrong and you were backfeeding your house, and an electrical fire occurred, i am not sure what the insurance liability would be. Since backfeeding is against electrical code.

NO! The power from one phase of the panel goes out to the 240v appliance on the active buss. Since you're trying to power a 240v appliance with 120v instead of 240v, you damage both teh appliance and the genny.

^that. Please.


Screw the generator and appliance.

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