http://www.jewukr.org/observer/jo22_41/p0103_e.html

Thoughts?

Originally posted by Larry Gude
Thoughts? Biased source.

Hessian posted something very similar last week....

Here (http://forums.somd.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27146)

Even though it's probably all true.... what should we do about it? :confused:

This is insightful but shouldn't be new. Sadly Americans still have this horrible naivte' that the Muslems are just mad at us over our help of Israel or grabbing Afghanistan/Iraq.

The deep seated hatred will not be appeased with generosity, treaties, and king gestures.

It reminds me of a cavalry officer who was faced with having to conclude a peace treaty with Native Americans out in Colorado(?) The feud had been so bitter that when it came time to negotiate, the Chief was told that the American commander has no desire to reach a peace accord with them because it would mean that they survive. The Officer told him he would prefer for the fight to continue because when it is over: all the Indians would be dead.
(The Indian Chief signed VERY quickly)

Get the hell out and leave them alone to fight among themselves like they have since the begining of time

Originally posted by Hessian
This is insightful but shouldn't be new. Sadly Americans still have this horrible naivte' that the Muslems are just mad at us over our help of Israel or grabbing Afghanistan/Iraq.


I'm still skeptical, precisely because my whole life I've been taught that Islam is a peaceful religion and that the only bad ones are extremists.

I'd do the research myself if I had time, but I don't. And I don't think many Americans are going to become aware of Islam not being a peaceful religion until someone with enormous authority, respect of most American people, great courage, and an unbiased view sits down and lays out a supporting argument against Islam on national TV.

No great American leaders want to come out and say that Islam is bad a) because of all the muslim-americans in this country and b) he's afraid of losing votes by endorsing the persecution of muslims.

Originally posted by Sparx
Get the hell out and leave them alone to fight among themselves like they have since the begining of time

STFU!

This is insightful but shouldn't be new. Sadly Americans still have this horrible naivte' that the Muslems are just mad at us over our help of Israel or grabbing Afghanistan/Iraq.

You know it's new from the standpoint of common public knowledge.

We all know Jews personally and don't fear a global banking cabal. We all know the religion at least a bit and there isn't much to worry about.

I don't know any followers of Islam. Closest we get is Farakhan. Learning about it has been a great side benefit of Al Queda.

I'd love it if any followers of Islam would comment.

Originally posted by sleuth
I'm still skeptical, precisely because my whole life I've been taught that Islam is a peaceful religion and that the only bad ones are extremists.
Sleuth ... You say alot of scary things but... This is by far the scariest. :frown:

Kain99

I remember my high school history books said "Muslims respect and live in peace with Jews and Christians because they worship the same God, just differently"

Where they got this lie from I have no idea.

Most of my books were written in the late 70's and early 80's. I graduated high school in 92.

Originally posted by Kain99
Sleuth ... You say alot of scary things but... This is by far the scariest. :frown:

What's scary about it? :shrug: It's what I've been taught, in high school and middle school, about world history.

Thus far, I haven't had the time nor the motivation to research it myself and find out any different of an answer.

And also thus far, no one that I see as unbiased whose opinion I feel I can trust has laid a case for me to switch sides on the issue. Believe me, if someone that I respect who had nothing to lose or gain on the subject would come forward and lay out with historical examples and a broad overview of selections from the Koran, I might be inclined to change my mind.

Until that happens, or until I get the motivation to do the work myself, I only have what I have already learned to fall back on. :confused:

Originally posted by czygvtwkr

I remember my high school history books said "Muslims respect and live in peace with Jews and Christians because they worship the same God, just differently"


:yeahthat: My schools taught the same thing.

I guess 9/11 changed nothing for ya....:frown:

It didn't take Muhammad long to change his "revelations" from peace and love to conquer the infidel.

I sincerely believe that we have some peace loving and good Islamic Americans right here in our area but they read a different version of the quaran than most. The fact that Islam is the religion of choice for jailbirds must tell us something. Islam is a magnet for violent, amoral people. You don't need any columnists opinion to figure it out.

It seem to me that religious fundamentalism becomes popular during times of massive social change, as a reaction and a reflexive way of dealing with that change.

The growth of Christian fundamentalism in America seemed to be a response to the '60s upheaval, which included civil rights and the women's movement.

And Islamist movements like Wahhabism grew in the decades after the British and French built their empires in Africa and Asia. Was the 20th century like the alarm clock going off in the Arab world? The Arabs, who were leaders in learning before the Crusades, had become socially and culturally isolated from the rest of the world a millenium later.

Fanatics driven by fear and hate can twist the words of any holy book, Jewish, Christian or Muslim, to justify their beliefs.

Originally posted by Kain99
I guess 9/11 changed nothing for ya....:frown:

It did change something for me. I woke up realized that Islamic radicals were capable of attacking the U.S. I took a job as a government engineer when before 9/11 I wasn't sure I wanted to work in the defense industry.

But it doesn't prove that Islam is an evil religion. All it proves is that these Islamic radicals were psycho. Heck, Christian radicals have committed atrocious crimes in the name of God as well. And Jewish, and etc.

I've known some Islamic people. I met them in college. And to the best I could figure, these were good people. They were not out to kill anybody. That in and of itself tells me that either a) Islam is not uniformly evil or b) they were not following the teachings of Islam because Islam IS evil. Truth be told - I don't know which is correct.

I'm not defending Islam. All I'm saying is that I don't know the answer. I'm waiting for someone that I can believe presents me with very strong to nearly irrefutable evidence that Islam as a religion is evil.

Originally posted by sleuth
It did change something for me. I woke up realized that Islamic radicals were capable of attacking the U.S. I took a job as a government engineer when before 9/11 I wasn't sure I wanted to work in the defense industry.
Well, "They" taught us that Santa Claus was real and that George Washington was the first President too....

Does that make it true? For real Sleuth... as adults we must unlearn.. No Lie...:wink:

Originally posted by sleuth
I'm waiting for someone that I can believe presents me with very strong to nearly irrefutable evidence that Islam as a religion is evil.

I'm not trying to defend or attack any religion either. My concern is that if you label a religion as evil, isn't it then a logical conclusion that all its adherents must be killed? That bastard Osama wants Muslims to believe that the US is out to slaughter all of them, and I don't want him to be right about anything.

Originally posted by Kain99
Well, "They" taught us that Santa Claus was real and that George Washington was the first President too....

Does that make it true? For real Sleuth... as adults we must unlearn.. No Lie...:wink:

And I'm willing to unlearn... soon as someone gives me a logical well-researched unbiased argument.

I've already learned that Islam "might" be evil. I've ceded my hard and fast position from when I was a kid that Islam was pure and good, for a position of "I'm not sure."

So, convince me that Islam in and of itself is evil, not that a small minority of radical Islamic terrorists are, because I already know that.

Originally posted by sleuth
And I'm willing to unlearn... soon as someone gives me a logical well-researched unbiased argument.

I've already learned that Islam "might" be evil. I've ceded my hard and fast position from when I was a kid that Islam was pure and good, for a position of "I'm not sure."

So, convince me that Islam in and of itself is evil, not that a small minority of radical Islamic terrorists are, because I already know that.
Do yourself a favor and read the Quoran (Koran) whichever... Don't waste your time on the *OLd Testament" All the good murderous stuff is in the New. :wink:

Originally posted by sleuth
And I'm willing to unlearn... soon as someone gives me a logical well-researched unbiased argument.

I've already learned that Islam "might" be evil. I've ceded my hard and fast position from when I was a kid that Islam was pure and good, for a position of "I'm not sure."

So, convince me that Islam in and of itself is evil, not that a small minority of radical Islamic terrorists are, because I already know that.
There are close to two BILLION muslims on earth and I believe it is a majority that wishes death to the infidel. Is this an evil religion? It's a loaded question because the quaran is interpreted so differently. It's the minority that are good people and even in their ranks you have creeps like that shoe bomber.

Originally posted by willie
it is a majority that wishes death to the infidel. Is this an evil religion?


...

It's the minority that are good people and even in their ranks you have creeps like that shoe bomber.

Can you substantiate these claims with anything?

dammit.
Note to self: Hide the knives when muslim friends come over.

Originally posted by sleuth
Can you substantiate these claims with anything?
Nope. Even if you make it a minority, any percentage of two billion is a lot of trouble. I feel the circumstantial evidence points to a majority though. Add up the countries that would love to see us go down in flames and I think you have a majority. Iran and Iraq together will tip the scales against the good people. The "holy men" of Islam make the middle ages Popes look like a bunch of pansies.

Get the hell out and leave them alone to fight among themselves like they have since the begining of time

I'm with you 100%.

No invasion of Kuwait.

No First Trade Tower attack.

No Embassy bombings.

No USS Cole attack.

No Kobar Towers attack.

No September...September...oh, it's on the tip of my tongue.

Other than these few minor issues and you and I are cut from the exact same cloth!



:cheers:

Originally posted by Larry Gude
I'm with you 100%.

No invasion of Kuwait.

No First Trade Tower attack.

No Embassy bombings.

No USS Cole attack.

No Kobar Towers attack.

No September...September...oh, it's on the tip of my tongue.

Other than these few minor issues and you and I are cut from the exact same cloth!




:cheers:
:confused: :confused: Are you saying these attacks would never have happened? Is this an attempt at sarcasm? Some fruitcakes actually believe they would leave the world alone if we left them alone. I hope I'm not calling you a fruitcake.