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11-16-2005, 06:27 AM
<div align="center"><table border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" bordercolor="#111111" bgcolor="#C9C0A7" width="414" height="66"><tr><td><img src="http://somd.com/news/inmyopinion/trr.gif"></td><td width="358"><font face="Impact" color="#000000" size="6">In My Opinion</font><font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="3"><i><br><b> by Trevor Bothwell</b></i></td></tr></table></div>
Today (November 15) is America Recycles Day. In honor of this fine day I’ve done the only logical thing I could think of: I threw my plastic soda bottle and paper plate into my garbage can after I ate my lunch.

I hate recycling. Well, check that. I hate recycling for the sake of recycling. More to the point, I hate that the government feels the need to tell us what we should recycle. Taxpayers all across America are fleeced so state and local public works departments can manage the collection of our aluminum cans, plastic bottles, newspapers, phone books, cardboard boxes, you name it.

Aside from the idea that government knows best how we should live our lives, the main reason I hate such recycling programs is that every one of us recycles, whether we realize it or not. Don't believe me? Look at your wrist. How long have you had that watch? How many times have you worn the shirt you have on? Your pants? Your shoes? How many times have you driven the same car to work? How many of us could afford to wear a business suit once and simply throw it away afterward?

You get the idea. When the cost of not recycling outweighs the cost of recycling, we'll recycle. Automatically. Here's an excerpt of an article by George Mason University economist Don Boudreaux (http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/boudreaux/articles/2002/IRecycle.html), who explains this concept brilliantly:

We recycle as much as we do because it makes good sense to do so. It would indeed be wasteful for me to discard my fine china after each use. So I don’t do it. And I don’t do it because the market reliably tells me that it’s wasteful to do so. I’m of no mind to purchase new china after each meal because the price of fine china far exceeds the value to me of the time I must spend cleaning and storing mine for future use. I’d quickly go broke if I refused to recycle most of the things that I regularly recycle. (Incidentally, I’ll bet that even Bill and Melinda Gates recycle their fine china.)

But I do discard paper plates after each use. The reason, at bottom, is no different from the reason I recycle my china rather than discard it: it would be wasteful to do otherwise. After all, I could recycle paper plates. Careful washing would enable my family and me to reuse paper plates a couple or three times. But notice what would be wasted: valuable labor and time. One important reason for using paper plates would be undermined. That reason, of course, is the importance of saving the time and effort that it would take to wash dishes following the meal. Time that I could spend playing with my son, relaxing with my wife, reading a good book, or fixing a leaky faucet would be wasted cleaning paper plates. And to what purpose? None. Paper plates are so expendable precisely because the materials necessary to make them are so abundant. This abundance is reflected accurately in their low price.

But what about the environment? Or landfill space? Isn't it just plain smart to recycle things like paper products to save trees? Indeed, the primary excuse proffered by government and the environmental lobby is that without recycling we would exhaust our natural resources and run out of dumping space.

The answer is quite simple. It's No. Trees -- which, by the way, are a renewable resource -- are plentiful, regardless of what recycling advocates might say to the contrary. If they weren't, paper products wouldn't be so cheap (the same goes for aluminum, plastic, cardboard, what have you). In a free market, as soon as a resource becomes noticeably more scarce, its value rises accordingly, which results in higher prices. If prices grow high enough that we can no longer afford to simply discard materials made from certain resources, we will recycle them all on our own -- whether reusing them in our homes, or even opening up our own, privately-operated, recycling centers.

Perhaps I should be grateful that Maryland (where I reside) provides no state funding for recycling. However, Calvert County (where I reside, more specifically) allocates millions of its $12.2 million 2005 waste management budget to a recycling program that covers everything from employee salaries and recycling centers to county education and training programs encouraging the practice. But at least the county leaves trash collection to the private citizen. I choose to pay for trash pick-up, but others opt to take their waste to the dump.

Other state and county residents aren't so lucky. Some local governments that provide trash service won't even pick up your garbage unless recyclables are separated out at the curb. In New York state, my parents pay a $.05 per can deposit on beer and soda, which is nothing but another state tax. How many people really think the state cares whether or not you return your case of empties just to get your $1.20 back? It knows full well most people won't endure the hassle just to collect a buck.

The market dictates what's really worth recycling and what's not. Most garbage isn't worth it. And neither are the recycling programs government bureaucrats like to shove down our throats.

©2005 Trevor Bothwell

Trevor Bothwell is a freelance writing living in Maryland. He is a contributing writer at Democracy Project (http://www.democracy-project.com/) and can be contacted at bothwelltj@yahoo.com.

soul4sale
11-16-2005, 09:33 AM
You're so hardcore and reckless.

[QUOTE] I hate recycling. Well, check that. I hate recycling for the sake of recycling. More to the point, I hate that the government feels the need to tell us what we should recycle.

What a whiner! Sound like a petulent teenager. "I ain't gonna do it, just cuz you told me to." It's a good thing government doesn't care about your personal feelings.

Taxpayers all across America are fleeced so state and local public works departments can manage the collection of our aluminum cans, plastic bottles, newspapers, phone books, cardboard boxes, you name it.

Wait, all the sudden you're an expert on municiple waste disposal? You've done all your homework? Looked up the facts? Crunched the numbers? Did you even bother to pick up the phone and call around before you published this diatribe? I'll bet you didn't. I'll bet you read a couple articles online in the midst of a hissy fit.

Aside from the idea that government knows best how we should live our lives, the main reason I hate such recycling programs is that every one of us recycles, whether we realize it or not.

You're honestly comparing durable goods to paper, plastic and glass containers? Boy, you are dumber than a bag of hammers. Hang on, I've got to go "recycle" my living room by walking through it...

Isn't it just plain smart to recycle things like paper products to save trees? ... Trees -- which, by the way, are a renewable resource -- are plentiful, regardless of what recycling advocates might say to the contrary.

Trees are renewable...Oh yeah, and so is oil. Just wait a couple billion years. It comes right back. The market is a horrible tool for community resource management. The market, when left to its own devices, acts with extreme emotional illogic on a boom-bust cycle. There is no long-range management planning. It's all about the next quarterly report. Do you know why this country has enjoyed a relatively stable economy in the last decade? It's because a GOVERNMENT agency known as the federal reserve has seen fit to jack up the cost of borrowing money BEFORE the market gets too speculative and implodes in a fiery recession. It then drops the cost of money to draw the economy out of recession. Policies like this kept the Internet bubble crash from turning into a full-blown depression, and they are currently squeezing the air out of the housing bubble. The same principle applies to recycling. If you begin managing a seemingly plentiful (but not annually renewable) resource BEFORE it is stripped from the market by lack of foresight, then you can forestall a collapse of the market. Recycling isn't a fix-all solution. It's a safety valve. What if mother nature suddenly strips our forests (fire, virus, volcano)? Wouldn't it be nice to have a recycling infrastructure already in place to meet the market need? In the mean time, you have to support that infrastructure somehow.

FromTexas
11-29-2005, 10:35 PM
What a whiner! Sound like a petulent teenager. "I ain't gonna do it, just cuz you told me to." It's a good thing government doesn't care about your personal feelings.

You didn't have anything to offer here.


Wait, all the sudden you're an expert on municiple waste disposal? You've done all your homework? Looked up the facts? Crunched the numbers? Did you even bother to pick up the phone and call around before you published this diatribe? I'll bet you didn't. I'll bet you read a couple articles online in the midst of a hissy fit.

Or here...

You're honestly comparing durable goods to paper, plastic and glass containers? Boy, you are dumber than a bag of hammers. Hang on, I've got to go "recycle" my living room by walking through it...

That whoooshing sound is the sound of you missing the point... Let's take it slow here: You are right. They aren't the same. Can you figure out why and what the point was? Ah, they don't teach that in Socialism 101?

Trees are renewable...Oh yeah, and so is oil. Just wait a couple billion years. It comes right back.

And here you were complaining about the comparisons above... sheeeesh! Why don't you reach a little further on that one.

The market is a horrible tool for community resource management. The market, when left to its own devices, acts with extreme emotional illogic on a boom-bust cycle. There is no long-range management planning. It's all about the next quarterly report.

Spoken like a true anti-capitalist. Fallicy based on emotion and not facts. Even trying to mildly present the option that succesful businesses live only quarter to quarter without long range planning is a moronic endeavor at best.

Do you know why this country has enjoyed a relatively stable economy in the last decade? It's because a GOVERNMENT agency known as the federal reserve has seen fit to jack up the cost of borrowing money BEFORE the market gets too speculative and implodes in a fiery recession. It then drops the cost of money to draw the economy out of recession. Policies like this kept the Internet bubble crash from turning into a full-blown depression, and they are currently squeezing the air out of the housing bubble.

The link between monetary policy and businesses being good resource planners is nonexistent. It has no link to the current debate.

The same principle applies to recycling. If you begin managing a seemingly plentiful (but not annually renewable) resource BEFORE it is stripped from the market by lack of foresight, then you can forestall a collapse of the market.

Uh, this is how you link in monetary policy? You need to fire your grade school economics teacher. You have no understanding of monetary policy or basic economics.

Recycling isn't a fix-all solution. It's a safety valve. What if mother nature suddenly strips our forests (fire, virus, volcano)? Wouldn't it be nice to have a recycling infrastructure already in place to meet the market need? In the mean time, you have to support that infrastructure somehow.

So, all our forests (pretending that we get our wood products only from here for a moment) are destroyed... and recycling will be the infrastructure in place that mediates that? How many gaping holes can you place in your arguments?

1) Global resources
2) What all are you recycling to make up for total resources lost? Recycling isn't a 1:1 exchange... not even in the ballpark. In fact, in almost every case it costs more resources to recycle than it does to throw it away. That is why recycling only took off when government started subsidizing it. Which is essentially the point you missed above, too... When it costs $3 to get $1 of value... this is good why? Because your emotions say so? Yeah...

soul4sale
03-30-2006, 09:10 PM
You didn't have anything to offer here.
Or here...

Neither do you, pardner.

That whoooshing sound is the sound of you missing the point...

You get all your one-liners from TV sitcoms? Let's pretend I didn't get the dumbass point. Why don't lay it out for me, since you have some much pent up knowledge to add?

Spoken like a true anti-capitalist. Fallicy based on emotion and not facts.

Which you seem to be brimming with. Tell me all about how much you know about my economic views. Enlighten me.

Even trying to mildly present the option that succesful businesses live only quarter to quarter without long range planning is a moronic endeavor at best.

Outdated thinking, prairie blossom. We have no resident manufacturing to speak of anymore. This country has become a giant, debt-sucking parasite on the world economy. Our best business method is find a successful idea and then "pump it, dump it and run." That's why they invented the "commie" SEC to protect investors.

The link between monetary policy and businesses being good resource planners is nonexistent. It has no link to the current debate.

These are your "facts?" Sounds like good ol' assertion to me.

You need to fire your grade school economics teacher. You have no understanding of monetary policy or basic economics.

And now you're just frothing at the mouth. Find me all the elementary economics teachers in SoMD and ask if any of them ever worked for me. And, while you are at it, ask all the unicorns, pixies and flying pigs you find and ask them the same question.

So, all our forests (pretending that we get our wood products only from here for a moment)

Where do you get your wood from? Gravel pits? Granite quarries? Oil refineries? Where are you going with this? Oh! Wait! I see the clever turn of phrase. You're hung up on "our forests" and "from here." Limiting the scope...very lawyeresque of you.

Recycling isn't a 1:1 exchange... not even in the ballpark. In fact, in almost every case it costs more resources to recycle than it does to throw it away.

JESUS CHRIST! PRAISE GOD! HE'S ARRIVED! Took you phucking long enough. Now that you're caught up, I'll retort: DUH. In fact, it can be as low as 9:1, depending on the market. Then again, public safety, road maintenance, water service, sewer service and other public utilities are pretty much losing games too. Got any genius observations about other public services?

FromTexas
04-14-2006, 05:15 PM
I am not sure what you offered to debate back... other than still completely missing the point. You don't even seem to understand what is being said to you. Its amazing.

Mikeinsmd
04-14-2006, 05:46 PM
I recycle........





















my beer into urine. :buddies:

Cinderella
05-01-2006, 02:03 AM
LOL Mike...me too! :)

Seriously, we waste so much in this country that anything that's recycled is a good thing.

BuddyLee
05-01-2006, 02:23 AM
LOL Mike...me too! :)

Seriously, we waste so much in this country that anything that's recycled is a good thing.Agreed. I wonder how slothful we can be; time for limbo.

Cinderella
05-02-2006, 02:21 AM
I recycle........





















my beer into urine. :buddies:

Besides enjoying Michelob, I love the Bare Azz Blonde and Kangaroo Love beer at DuClaws.

bcp
05-06-2006, 08:28 AM
I recycle........

my beer into urine. :buddies:
I wouldnt think that there would be much of a market for that:alkies:

mic-maryland
05-29-2006, 04:18 AM
I must say that I agree with this thread.
Actually, I am happy that I found people thinking like me.




====================================
Michael Warner
Maryland Locksmith (http://www.maryland-local-locksmith.com)

Lenny
06-13-2006, 02:33 PM
I must say that I agree with this thread.
Actually, I am happy that I found people thinking like me.





Ummmm. How is you think? In favor of "just-one-of-the-sheep recycling" or against?

chief catague
07-13-2006, 02:07 PM
recycle to be or not? well think of the current situation. the facts of "garbage" in general is astonishing.SO if there is a way to take ploastic...reclyclables.. they are the items that can be used to make other tiems of the same form. its a extra time to do so BUT its for the good of all "where you live" SO quite whinin... about i gotta recycle...........You're so hardcore and reckless.



What a whiner! Sound like a petulent teenager. "I ain't gonna do it, just cuz you told me to." It's a good thing government doesn't care about your personal feelings.



Wait, all the sudden you're an expert on municiple waste disposal? You've done all your homework? Looked up the facts? Crunched the numbers? Did you even bother to pick up the phone and call around before you published this diatribe? I'll bet you didn't. I'll bet you read a couple articles online in the midst of a hissy fit.



You're honestly comparing durable goods to paper, plastic and glass containers? Boy, you are dumber than a bag of hammers. Hang on, I've got to go "recycle" my living room by walking through it...



Trees are renewable...Oh yeah, and so is oil. Just wait a couple billion years. It comes right back. The market is a horrible tool for community resource management. The market, when left to its own devices, acts with extreme emotional illogic on a boom-bust cycle. There is no long-range management planning. It's all about the next quarterly report. Do you know why this country has enjoyed a relatively stable economy in the last decade? It's because a GOVERNMENT agency known as the federal reserve has seen fit to jack up the cost of borrowing money BEFORE the market gets too speculative and implodes in a fiery recession. It then drops the cost of money to draw the economy out of recession. Policies like this kept the Internet bubble crash from turning into a full-blown depression, and they are currently squeezing the air out of the housing bubble. The same principle applies to recycling. If you begin managing a seemingly plentiful (but not annually renewable) resource BEFORE it is stripped from the market by lack of foresight, then you can forestall a collapse of the market. Recycling isn't a fix-all solution. It's a safety valve. What if mother nature suddenly strips our forests (fire, virus, volcano)? Wouldn't it be nice to have a recycling infrastructure already in place to meet the market need? In the mean time, you have to support that infrastructure somehow.

chief catague
07-13-2006, 02:19 PM
so how long does it take for a tree to grow? ok it takes a good long time to have a tree to be of its usefullness. is it in the yard or in the woods tree farm so look at the full picture. oil? ya gonna make that cme back HOW..its been there b4 we were here so OIL GROWS???recycle to be or not? well think of the current situation. the facts of "garbage" in general is astonishing.SO if there is a way to take ploastic...reclyclables.. they are the items that can be used to make other tiems of the same form. its a extra time to do so BUT its for the good of all "where you live" SO quite whinin... about i gotta recycle...........

chernmax
08-03-2006, 01:06 PM
I reuse woman... :jameo:

luckystar
08-22-2006, 10:29 AM
I reuse washed cloth napkins. I think that's a significant dent in recycling for one household, can you imagine how much ends up in the trash that is just paper towels and napkins?

PelyKat
09-05-2006, 09:40 AM
Now that Charles County Recycle Center can do a full Mixed paper recycle I am happy. We make a run every week to drop off all bottles, cans, and papers. But until 1 Aug 06, they could only take newspaper, office type paper, mail, and cardboard. Not cereal boxes, or pizza boxes, or other kitchen type items that amount to a lot of the trash.

As a firm believer in Recycling. This is a great thing for us...and Mother Earth. Yeah! :flowers:

PelyKat
09-11-2006, 08:43 PM
Now I'm confused...are you for recycling? or just hasseling from Texas? not that I disagree with you. Just want to be clear.

PsyOps
10-03-2006, 07:55 AM
Wow! Someone sure hit a sour chord with soul4sale. Are we capable of disagreeing without getting so danged personal? In the end, aren’t we all entitled to our opinion? Soul4sale, you say it all in your signature quote “You and me will all go down in history with a sad Statue of Liberty and a generation that didn't agree.”

mygoldnhorse
10-16-2006, 12:11 PM
Recycled Lunacy.....this word reminds me of a definition for a....... MPD :whistle:

juggy4805
03-08-2007, 02:47 PM
A pirate nestled is always good.

cdsulhoff
03-08-2007, 03:11 PM
After the beavers recycle the left over wooden peg legs and eye patched from the dirty pirates that has been voted off, we go and nestled next to our fire to keep warm.

TWLs wife
03-08-2007, 11:19 PM
A pirate nestled is always good.
Stomp

mikex1337
06-13-2007, 11:07 AM
Why are we wasting our time on this... -_-

BadGirl
06-13-2007, 11:14 AM
Why are we wasting our time on this... -_-And just why are you re-hashing a thread that dates back to Nov 2005?

You're now bringing it back up to discuss. :dork:


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