Could be that the same set of brainiacs who thought up and managed this war are just as inept at framing a scape goat....


bogus is as bogus does (http://agonist.org/sean_paul_kelley/20070211/doesnt_look_like_farsi_to_me)

Doesn't Look Like Farsi To Me? (http://agonist.org/sean_paul_kelley/20070211/doesnt_look_like_farsi_to_me)

http://www3.turkishpress.com/i-i/SGE.RFA10.110207145131.photo00.quicklook.default-245x182.jpg
http://www3.turkishpress.com/i-i/SGE.RFA10.110207145131.photo00.quicklook.default-245x182.jpgLook, I admit, I don't know much about bomb-making. And I don't know much about how factories label bombs. But I do know that in Iran virtually all numbers were in the Farsi-Arabic script. They were not and do not resemble our numbers. Now, I may be wrong, but I have a feeling that the implication that this round captured in the photo is bogus. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=YXKIEPPGSTE2FQFIQMGCFFOAVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2007/02/11/wiran511.xml) Color me very skeptical. Any thoughts? Anyone want to google this and other aspects of the story? Steve (http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2007/02/they-expect-you-to-believe-this.html) has the same idea. Couple questions spring to mind first: is this pattern of numbers to be found on other similar weapons, made by other countries? This Russian 82mm (http://www.inert-ord.net/russ02i/mort_at/82cyrillic.jpg) has the markings etched in Russian. Are we sure that the Iranians use the 81mm round? Just in case I really embarrass myself by asking a tremendously stupid question, let me just add this (consider it troll repellent): there are no stupid questions. The only stupid questions are those not asked. Otherwise how are we supposed to learn.

Markings on the Zelzal 2 rocket (http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/images/zelzal-2-pic1.jpg) are in Farsi. On a similar note, Juan Cole crunches some numbers. (http://agonist.org/node/39052/108971#comment-108971) Result: implausible. Looks like the Zelzal 3 has markings in Farsi too. (http://www.network54.com/Realm/raghfarm/zelzal3.jpg) Here's an anti-ship missile with Farsi on it. (http://www.network54.com/Realm/Iranareus/kosar.jpg)

Finally, here are Persian serial numbers (http://www.gunsworld.com/p08/graphs/Per_B.jpg) etched onto a handgun. (http://www.gunsworld.com/p08/graphs/Per_L_CU.jpg)

Update: Ordnance pictured by the Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=YXKIEPPGSTE2FQFIQMGCFFOAVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2007/02/11/wiran511.xml) <strike>is</strike> might not be from Iran (http://agonist.org/node/39060/108984#comment-108984), but from Pakistan. (http://www.pof.gov.pk/products/81mmhem57.htm) It could be from any number of countries, as one of our reader's notes at this point the proof is not definitive either way (http://agonist.org/node/39060/109003#comment-109003).

Here's a radio interview (http://agonist.org/sean_paul_kelley/20070212/the_chris_duel_show) I did this afternoon about the so-called "proof."

Could be that the same set of brainiacs who thought up and managed this war are just as inept at framing a scape goat....






Wow - what unbiased and completely reputable sources you always use.

I was under the impression we used arabic numerals

I was under the impression we used arabic numerals


:yeahthat:

I was under the impression we used arabic numerals


:killingme

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals


...purposes only. :lmao:

Yes, WE use arabic numerals, the Iranians don't, they use Farsi numerals. BTW, they are Persians and would probably be offended if you called them Arabs.


I was under the impression we used arabic numerals

Yes, WE use arabic numerals, the Iranians don't, they use Farsi numerals. BTW, they are Persians and would probably be offended if you called them Arabs.
And our troops are brave, smart men. They might get offended when you say they're stupid for signing up after 9-11. :smack:

Could be that the same set of brainiacs who thought up and managed this war are just as inept at framing a scape goat....




bogus is as bogus does (http://agonist.org/sean_paul_kelley/20070211/doesnt_look_like_farsi_to_me)


Doesn't Look Like Farsi To Me? (http://agonist.org/sean_paul_kelley/20070211/doesnt_look_like_farsi_to_me)

http://www3.turkishpress.com/i-i/SGE.RFA10.110207145131.photo00.quicklook.default-245x182.jpg
http://www3.turkishpress.com/i-i/SGE.RFA10.110207145131.photo00.quicklook.default-245x182.jpgLook, I admit, I don't know much about bomb-making. And I don't know much about how factories label bombs. But I do know that in Iran virtually all numbers were in the Farsi-Arabic script. They were not and do not resemble our numbers. Now, I may be wrong, but I have a feeling that the implication that this round captured in the photo is bogus. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=YXKIEPPGSTE2FQFIQMGCFFOAVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2007/02/11/wiran511.xml) Color me very skeptical. Any thoughts? Anyone want to google this and other aspects of the story? Steve (http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2007/02/they-expect-you-to-believe-this.html) has the same idea. Couple questions spring to mind first: is this pattern of numbers to be found on other similar weapons, made by other countries? This Russian 82mm (http://www.inert-ord.net/russ02i/mort_at/82cyrillic.jpg) has the markings etched in Russian. Are we sure that the Iranians use the 81mm round? Just in case I really embarrass myself by asking a tremendously stupid question, let me just add this (consider it troll repellent): there are no stupid questions. The only stupid questions are those not asked. Otherwise how are we supposed to learn.

Markings on the Zelzal 2 rocket (http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/images/zelzal-2-pic1.jpg) are in Farsi. On a similar note, Juan Cole crunches some numbers. (http://agonist.org/node/39052/108971#comment-108971) Result: implausible. Looks like the Zelzal 3 has markings in Farsi too. (http://www.network54.com/Realm/raghfarm/zelzal3.jpg) Here's an anti-ship missile with Farsi on it. (http://www.network54.com/Realm/Iranareus/kosar.jpg)

Finally, here are Persian serial numbers (http://www.gunsworld.com/p08/graphs/Per_B.jpg) etched onto a handgun. (http://www.gunsworld.com/p08/graphs/Per_L_CU.jpg)

Update: Ordnance pictured by the Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=YXKIEPPGSTE2FQFIQMGCFFOAVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2007/02/11/wiran511.xml) <STRIKE>is</STRIKE> might not be from Iran (http://agonist.org/node/39060/108984#comment-108984), but from Pakistan. (http://www.pof.gov.pk/products/81mmhem57.htm) It could be from any number of countries, as one of our reader's notes at this point the proof is not definitive either way (http://agonist.org/node/39060/109003#comment-109003).

Here's a radio interview (http://agonist.org/sean_paul_kelley/20070212/the_chris_duel_show) I did this afternoon about the so-called "proof."



Anyone ever heard of this site before?

Anyone ever heard of this site before?

No. And when the guy who runs the website makes statments like this in his blog:

Nice to see the folks who award the Grammys know how to give a big F*^k you to the lizard brains and Cheney's 'Dead-Enders' (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/12/arts/music/12gram.html?hp&ex=1171256400&en=0ce7551ce3dc6676&ei=5094&partner=homepage) :

After death threats, boycotts and a cold shoulder from mainstream country radio, the Dixie Chicks gained sweet vindication Sunday night at the 49th annual Grammy Awards, capturing honors in all five of the categories in which they were nominated.

Puts a smile on my face. Who says politics and music don't mix? I say more like the Dixie Chicks, James McMurtry, Guy Forsyth and John Mellencamp please.

------------------------------------

Nope. This site has ZERO credibility with me.

BTW, they are Persians and would probably be offended if you called them Arabs.
:yay: cool, I'll stick to raghead

Call 'em what you want, raghead is a broad ethnic slur that covers a wide range, but don't call them arabs, that would be erroneous.





:yay: cool, I'll stick to raghead

numerals in Farsi.. for the skeptical who want to allow Bush to start another war we don't need and allow our soldiers to die ignoble deaths for his lies.

http://www.arash.com/iran/alphabet/

http://www.gunsworld.com/mauser/c96_var_us.html (scroll to bottom)

Yes, WE use arabic numerals, the Iranians don't, they use Farsi numerals. BTW, they are Persians and would probably be offended if you called them Arabs.


https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/print/ir.html

Persian 51%, Azeri 24%, Gilaki and Mazandarani 8%, Kurd 7%, Arab 3%, Lur 2%, Baloch 2%, Turkmen 2%, other 1%

and if you find that offensive because its from the US Gov and CIA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran

Demographics

Main article: Demographics of Iran


Iran is a diverse country consisting of people of many religions and ethnic backgrounds cemented by the Persian culture. Persians, the founders of Ancient Persia, constitute the majority of the population. Seventy percent of present-day Iranians are Iranic peoples, native speakers of Indo-European languages who are descended from the Aryan (Indo-Iranians) tribes that began migrating from Central Asia into what is now Iran in the second millennium BC. The majority of the population speaks one of the Iranian languages, including the official language, Persian. The main ethnic groups are Persians (51%), Azeris (24%), Gilaki and Mazandarani (8%), Kurds (7%), Arabs (3%), Baluchi (2%), Lurs (2%), Turkmens (2%), Qashqai, Armenians, Persian Jews, Georgians, Assyrians, Circassians, Tats, Pashtuns and others (1%).[53] The number of native speakers of Persian in Iran is estimated at around 40 million.[54] However, the Iranian languages and their various dialects (totaling an estimated 150-200 million speakers) exceed the Iranian borders and are spoken throughout western China, southern Russia, and eastern Turkey.[55]

Iran's population increased dramatically during the latter half of the twentieth century, reaching about 70 million by 2006. In recent years, however, Iran's birth rate has dropped significantly.[56] Studies show that Iran's rate of population growth will continue to slow until it stabilizes, by the year 2050, above 90 million.[57][55] More than two-thirds of the population is under the age of 30, and the literacy rate is 86%.

The Iranian diaspora is estimated at over four million people who emigrated to North America, Europe, South America and Australia, mostly after the Iranian revolution in 1979. Iran also hosts one of the largest refugee populations in the world, with more than one million refugees, mostly from Afghanistan and Iraq. As recent as October 10, 2006, Iranian officials have been working hand in hand with the UNHCR and Afghan officials to further its official government policy of repatriation.[58]

Most Iranians are Muslims; 90% belong to the Shi'a branch of Islam, the official state religion, and about 8% belong to the Sunni branch, mainly Kurds. The remaining 2% are non-Muslim religious minorities, mainly Bahai's, Mandeans, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians.[53] The latter three minority religions are officially recognized and protected, and have reserved seats in the Majles (Parliament). However the Bahai Faith, Iran's largest religious minority, is not officially recognized, and has been persecuted during its existence in Iran. Since the 1979 revolution the persecution has increased with executions and the denial of access to higher education. More recent persecution towards Bahai's has led to the United Nations Special Rapporteur of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights stating on March 20, 2006 that "this latest development indicates that the situation with regard to religious minorities in Iran is, in fact, deteriorating." [59]

51%, hey cool, then we're taking about the MAJORITY of Iranians.


https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/print/ir.html

Persian 51%, Azeri 24%, Gilaki and Mazandarani 8%, Kurd 7%, Arab 3%, Lur 2%, Baloch 2%, Turkmen 2%, other 1%

and if you find that offensive because its from the US Gov and CIA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran

Demographics

Main article: Demographics of Iran


Iran is a diverse country consisting of people of many religions and ethnic backgrounds cemented by the Persian culture. Persians, the founders of Ancient Persia, constitute the majority of the population. Seventy percent of present-day Iranians are Iranic peoples, native speakers of Indo-European languages who are descended from the Aryan (Indo-Iranians) tribes that began migrating from Central Asia into what is now Iran in the second millennium BC. The majority of the population speaks one of the Iranian languages, including the official language, Persian. The main ethnic groups are Persians (51%), Azeris (24%), Gilaki and Mazandarani (8%), Kurds (7%), Arabs (3%), Baluchi (2%), Lurs (2%), Turkmens (2%), Qashqai, Armenians, Persian Jews, Georgians, Assyrians, Circassians, Tats, Pashtuns and others (1%).[53] The number of native speakers of Persian in Iran is estimated at around 40 million.[54] However, the Iranian languages and their various dialects (totaling an estimated 150-200 million speakers) exceed the Iranian borders and are spoken throughout western China, southern Russia, and eastern Turkey.[55]

Iran's population increased dramatically during the latter half of the twentieth century, reaching about 70 million by 2006. In recent years, however, Iran's birth rate has dropped significantly.[56] Studies show that Iran's rate of population growth will continue to slow until it stabilizes, by the year 2050, above 90 million.[57][55] More than two-thirds of the population is under the age of 30, and the literacy rate is 86%.

The Iranian diaspora is estimated at over four million people who emigrated to North America, Europe, South America and Australia, mostly after the Iranian revolution in 1979. Iran also hosts one of the largest refugee populations in the world, with more than one million refugees, mostly from Afghanistan and Iraq. As recent as October 10, 2006, Iranian officials have been working hand in hand with the UNHCR and Afghan officials to further its official government policy of repatriation.[58]

Most Iranians are Muslims; 90% belong to the Shi'a branch of Islam, the official state religion, and about 8% belong to the Sunni branch, mainly Kurds. The remaining 2% are non-Muslim religious minorities, mainly Bahai's, Mandeans, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians.[53] The latter three minority religions are officially recognized and protected, and have reserved seats in the Majles (Parliament). However the Bahai Faith, Iran's largest religious minority, is not officially recognized, and has been persecuted during its existence in Iran. Since the 1979 revolution the persecution has increased with executions and the denial of access to higher education. More recent persecution towards Bahai's has led to the United Nations Special Rapporteur of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights stating on March 20, 2006 that "this latest development indicates that the situation with regard to religious minorities in Iran is, in fact, deteriorating." [59]

BTW, they are Persians and would probably be offended if you called them Arabs.
1. I don't give a rats ass what offends them!!!
2. I would prefer to call them all EXTINCT!!! :dead:

:evil:

Proves nothing (4.00 / 5)
Back when Reagan aided the Mujahaddin in Afghanistan (yes, those Islamist extremists) we gave them guns, bombs and other armaments and set up training camps to make sure they used them effectively. But we didn't give them American weapons, no siree, Bob! The CIA scoured the various black markets for Chinese and other weapons so that we would have deniability - even though what we were doing was no secret to the Soviets (for further deniability we did all this through the near-autonomous Pakistani intelligence service). Two points: if the weapons were Iranian it doesn't mean they were sourced from the Iranian government as anyone could buy them pretty much anywhere, and if the Iranian government really did want to supply arms to Iraquis they sure as hell wouldn't give them Iranian arms as they can buy from black markets the same way as we did.

Steve coll's Ghost Wars is a fascinating history of our involvement in Russia's blunder in Afghanistan. Iraq could well bring down the US the same way Afghanistan did the Soviet Union.

this is interesting :

http://www.thisisrumorcontrol.org/node/360

The video was released, as promised, on August 15 -- and showed arms in boxes with Farsi markings on them. A public photograph on the website of the Multi-National Force-Iraq also seemed to confirm the confiscations. “There were Farsi language marks on the boxes containing the arms and heavy machine guns laid out on the floor with serial numbers on the sides of the guns,” a reporter on-the-scene told This Is Rumor Control.

A retired senior military officer who consults on U.S. policy conceded that the American government could be facing "an escalating situation" with Iran because of the U.S. showdown with the Mahdi Army in Najaf. This source is concerned that some government officials seem anxious to spark such a confrontation. "There are people in the U.S. government who are just banging the table saying 'let’s go get them,'" this former senior officer says. "I’ve never seen anything like it. It’s just crazy." Intelligence sources told This Is Rumor Control that "some 60,000 Islamic fighters have crossed over into Iraq from Iran" since the fall of Saddam Hussein.


Too bad it is an old article and the pics aren't available ........ :smack:

The other possibility is that the Iranians purposely used arabic numerals instead of farsi, to disguise the origin.

There is a world wide arms market for these types of weapons. They could get them from just about anybody, even us.

Proves nothing (4.00 / 5)
Back when Reagan aided the Mujahaddin in Afghanistan (yes, those Islamist extremists) we gave them guns, bombs and other armaments and set up training camps to make sure they used them effectively. But we didn't give them American weapons, no siree, Bob! The CIA scoured the various black markets for Chinese and other weapons so that we would have deniability - even though what we were doing was no secret to the Soviets (for further deniability we did all this through the near-autonomous Pakistani intelligence service). Two points: if the weapons were Iranian it doesn't mean they were sourced from the Iranian government as anyone could buy them pretty much anywhere, and if the Iranian government really did want to supply arms to Iraquis they sure as hell wouldn't give them Iranian arms as they can buy from black markets the same way as we did.

Steve coll's Ghost Wars is a fascinating history of our involvement in Russia's blunder in Afghanistan. Iraq could well bring down the US the same way Afghanistan did the Soviet Union.

Oh, this site obviousely hates our military...You sure you want to believe articles posted on www.thisisrumorcontrol.org???

Today Rion Causey is a highly regarded nuclear engineer in California but back in 1967 he was a nineteen-year-old medic assigned to Tiger Force platoon, a unit from the 101st Airborne Division accused of committing brutal atrocities during the Vietnam War. Causey tells This is Rumor Control that he is sure their battalion commander knew the unit was killing of scores of civilians and believes it was encouraged in order to increase Tiger Force’s “body count” because "these officers wanted to get promoted." (http://www.thisisrumorcontrol.org/node/2282)

this is interesting :

http://www.thisisrumorcontrol.org/node/360

The video was released, as promised, on August 15 -- and showed arms in boxes with Farsi markings on them. A public photograph on the website of the Multi-National Force-Iraq also seemed to confirm the confiscations. “There were Farsi language marks on the boxes containing the arms and heavy machine guns laid out on the floor with serial numbers on the sides of the guns,” a reporter on-the-scene told This Is Rumor Control.

A retired senior military officer who consults on U.S. policy conceded that the American government could be facing "an escalating situation" with Iran because of the U.S. showdown with the Mahdi Army in Najaf. This source is concerned that some government officials seem anxious to spark such a confrontation. "There are people in the U.S. government who are just banging the table saying 'let’s go get them,'" this former senior officer says. "I’ve never seen anything like it. It’s just crazy." Intelligence sources told This Is Rumor Control that "some 60,000 Islamic fighters have crossed over into Iraq from Iran" since the fall of Saddam Hussein.


Too bad it is an old article and the pics aren't available ........ :smack:

Try this one on for size ...........

50 Cal Austrian Sniper Rifles Found in Iraq, Originally sold to Iran (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=1M5D0MOIRSUKDQFIQMGSFFWAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2007/02/13/wiran313.xml)

:popcorn:

Yes, WE use arabic numerals, the Iranians don't, they use Farsi numerals. BTW, they are Persians and would probably be offended if you called them Arabs.
No actually our skin is a little thicker than that, and we would not be offended..

Go climb back under your rock, and suckle mommies teat..

1. I don't give a rats ass what offends them!!!
2. I would prefer to call them all EXTINCT!!! :dead:

:evil:
Gee, thanks buddy!

Gee, thanks buddy!
Sorry Itsa Boballah.

I would not say http://www.thisisrumorcontrol.org, hates our troops, it was reported in the Toledo Blade and re reported in major news papers and by bloggers everywhere ...... even your boy Klinton refused to offer an apology to Vietnam when he made his visit in Nov 2000, for US involvement or possible Atrocities ...........

As Adam Hochschild observed in his chronicle of Belgium's atrocities in the Congo, "The world we live in ... is shaped far less by what we celebrate and mythologize than by the painful events we try to forget." (http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles9/Nevins_Tiger-Force-Vietnam.htm)

No comment on the whole Farsi/Arabic numeral thing? You've got an opportunity to educate the rubes about your culture a little...


No actually our skin is a little thicker than that, and we would not be offended..

Go climb back under your rock, and suckle mommies teat..

You've got an opportunity to educate the rubes about your culture a little...

Doesn't seem to believe you're capable of education.

When you talk about munitions, I would assume it would be much like airraft, and how they are controlled. Being that there is an international market for arms, as you mention, having them identified by a language used by a small portion of the earth's population would seem not too smart. How would you sell anything to anybody if they didn't understand what was written on it, how could you tell an HE round from a WP round if it was written in sanscrit, but you spoke Swahili?

Going back to the aircraft, English is the recognized international language for controlling aircraft, not because it is the most widely used language, but it is the most widely recognized. It would make sense that same would be said for munition markings. How many people on the world's surface would recognize a 'farsi' numeral 5, or the 'farsi' letters for HE??

Then of course, unlike the US, most Arabic countries have many languages and dialects. Whereas we up North may call a frying pan, down south maybe a Skillet, in Arabic and Persian countries they wouldn't even be using the same language to describe it, from as little difference as the next town over.

An insurgent uses whatever the hell is provided for him. If all he had was a Daisy pellet gun, that is what he would use to the best of its ability. Anyone should find it very difficult to believe that only the US and Britain use 81 mm rounds. It could be marked in English for a reason, not all factions speak the same language. However, most every one to the man knows basic English. - just a thought

More from the religion of tolerance and peace:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/02/12/asia/AS-GEN-Pakistan-Beard-Warning.php

Fear Wears a Beard

Just a little off the top, please, and keep it sunna. Suspected Islamic militants warn barbers in Pakistani town not to cut men's beards

KHAR, Pakistan: Suspected Islamic radicals have issued a Taliban-style warning to barbers in a Pakistani border town not to shave off or cut their customers' beards, saying it offends Islam, residents said Monday.

Pamphlets bearing the warnings were found at several shops in Inayat Kalay in Pakistan's Bajur tribal region near the Afghan border, said Bacha Khan, a barber in the market town.

"Barbers! Correct yourselves," said the handwritten, Pashto-language notes, one of which was obtained by The Associated Press.

"Any barber shop where acts against Shariah (Islamic law) — shaving or cutting of beards — are seen, are given a final warning to stop this anti-Shariah work and if they do not stop, they should take responsibility for whatever harm they come to," the pamphlet said.

The pamphlets were unsigned. However, Khan said he believed the warnings were from mujahedeen, or holy warriors, a term often used to describe Islamic militants.

Which is, of course, the accurate pluralization of the term for the Islamic terrorist; a (usually) male Muslim following Allah's mandate to fight holy war, offensive or defensive, to further the expansionist program of Islam.

1. I don't give a rats ass what offends them!!!
2. I would prefer to call them all EXTINCT!!! :dead:

:evil:
We weren't happy over 9-11 either :shrug:

Well, there's also this, the date format is one used by pretty much just us...
<img src="http://www.threetwoone.org/uggabugga/2007/iran-ppt-15.jpg"\>

But guess what? In an interview on the Charlie Rose (http://www.charlierose.com/) show on Tuesday, Feb 13 with Javad Zarif, Iran's Ambassador to the United Nation, Zarif said this: [at the 37:50 point if you replay on the website] (emp add)The evidence that has been produced, in fact fabricated, is preposterous. The dates. If you look at the evidence, the dates that are used in this mortars are written in American date format, putting month first and date second. Whereas nowhere in the world people use month first and date second. Everywhere in the world except for the U.S. And those who fabricated this evidence should listen and learn. Everybody else in the world uses date, month, year. That is the order.

CHARLIE ROSE: That says what to you?

That this evidence is fabricated, as was the evidence that was fabricated before the Iraq war in order to launch an aggression. This evidence is fabricated and it points to a very dangerous policy that is being pursued by this administration.

CHARLIE ROSE: What is that dangerous policy pursued by this administration?

That dangerous policy is to create a crisis, to escape forward. That is, to blame somebody else for the results of their adventurism, which everybody knew would lead to this disaster.But don't worry, the President promises that he's telling the truth this time, cross his heart and hope we die..
Q: What assurances can you give the American people that the intelligence this time will be accurate?

BUSH: Ed, we know they're there, we know they're provided by the Quds force. We know the Quds force is a part of the Iranian government. I don't think we know who picked up the phone and said to the Quds force, go do this, but we know it's a vital part of the Iranian government. What matters is, is that we're responding. The idea that somehow we're manufacturing the idea that Iranians are providing IEDs is preposterous.

When you talk about munitions, I would assume it would be much like airraft, and how they are controlled. Being that there is an international market for arms, as you mention, having them identified by a language used by a small portion of the earth's population would seem not too smart. How would you sell anything to anybody if they didn't understand what was written on it, how could you tell an HE round from a WP round if it was written in sanscrit, but you spoke Swahili?

Going back to the aircraft, English is the recognized international language for controlling aircraft, not because it is the most widely used language, but it is the most widely recognized. It would make sense that same would be said for munition markings. How many people on the world's surface would recognize a 'farsi' numeral 5, or the 'farsi' letters for HE??

Then of course, unlike the US, most Arabic countries have many languages and dialects. Whereas we up North may call a frying pan, down south maybe a Skillet, in Arabic and Persian countries they wouldn't even be using the same language to describe it, from as little difference as the next town over.

You believe "Javad Zarif, Iran's Ambassador to the United Nations"?

Wow. I knew you were stupid, but now you have proven you are a gullible idiot. Good job.

Oh, I'm sorry I didn't realize he was lying about the date format we use. I must be hallucinating everytime I see mm/dd/yy during daily live in the good old USA.

You believe "Javad Zarif, Iran's Ambassador to the United Nations"?

Wow. I knew you were stupid, but now you have proven you are a gullible idiot. Good job.

Well, there's also this, the date format is one used by pretty much just us...


http://www.threetwoone.org/uggabugga/2007/iran-ppt-15.jpg



But guess what? In an interview on the Charlie Rose (http://www.charlierose.com/) show on Tuesday, Feb 13 with Javad Zarif, Iran's Ambassador to the United Nation, Zarif said this: [at the 37:50 point if you replay on the website] (emp add)The evidence that has been produced, in fact fabricated, is preposterous. The dates. If you look at the evidence, the dates that are used in this mortars are written in American date format, putting month first and date second. Whereas nowhere in the world people use month first and date second. Everywhere in the world except for the U.S. And those who fabricated this evidence should listen and learn. Everybody else in the world uses date, month, year. That is the order.


CHARLIE ROSE: That says what to you?

That this evidence is fabricated, as was the evidence that was fabricated before the Iraq war in order to launch an aggression. This evidence is fabricated and it points to a very dangerous policy that is being pursued by this administration.

CHARLIE ROSE: What is that dangerous policy pursued by this administration?

That dangerous policy is to create a crisis, to escape forward. That is, to blame somebody else for the results of their adventurism, which everybody knew would lead to this disaster.
But don't worry, the President promises that he's telling the truth this time, cross his heart and hope we die..Q: What assurances can you give the American people that the intelligence this time will be accurate?


BUSH: Ed, we know they're there, we know they're provided by the Quds force. We know the Quds force is a part of the Iranian government. I don't think we know who picked up the phone and said to the Quds force, go do this, but we know it's a vital part of the Iranian government. What matters is, is that we're responding. The idea that somehow we're manufacturing the idea that Iranians are providing IEDs is preposterous.




You're an effing moron. I hope are charged with treason and held at Gitmo.

I've saved that picture, digitally enhanced it and zoomed in as far as I can. You can't even make out the numbers on the top one.

So, let's put it this way. You take the word of a stock-chart website that nobody's ever heard of and Iran's Ambassador to the U.N. more than you trust MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, BBC, ITN, CNNi, FNC, SKYnews, CSPAN, PBS, and every arab country that fears Iran?

MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, BBC, ITN, CNNi, FNC, SKYnews, CSPAN, PBSSo glad you included the FOX Nuisance Channel. :yay:

Oh, I'm sorry I didn't realize he was lying about the date format we use. I must be hallucinating everytime I see mm/dd/yy during daily live in the good old USA.
Which company in the US (since we are the only ones using THAT date format) are building RPG 7 rounds??

None that I know of.

And as far as the format goes you'd be wrong about that too.. the US military uses either dd/mm/yy(YY) OR yyyymmdd

Which company in the US (since we are the only ones using THAT date format) are building RPG 7 rounds??That should be the bigger question, I would think.

Once manufactured the Iranians could print any sort of thing on the rounds to veil their origin.

That should be the bigger question, I would think.

Once manufactured the Iranians could print any sort of thing on the rounds to veil their origin.
That's just paint, but weapons of all types are stamped metal to metal somewhere.. ie, headstamps on gun rounds, even tank and arty rounds..

There is a similar stamp on RPG's, just like on mortars, tank rounds, arty.. and explosives..

Of course I can't expect Forestal to know that since he's only seen RPG rounds in comic books and CNN..

Of course I can't expect Forestal to know that since he's only seen RPG rounds in comic books and al Jazeera..:fixed: :biggrin:

That and it was anti tank mines of which type are specific to Iran, not RPG rounds.. those are made in the millions and can be found in about ANY country in the world..

You don't have access to the source image, I'm not surprised you can't zoom in to get the results you want...Here's another photo from ABC News if you doubt the authenticity of the one I provided...
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2873061

Funny, with such a recent debacle started over the President's inability to tell the truth, you're willing to give him carte blanche again.....

Well, in Bush's own words: Fool me once, shame on, shame on you..... you fool me you can't get fooled again...

With apologies to The Who...

A Fool and his credability are soon parted. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qDuG0ZYD5I)
You're an effing moron. I hope are charged with treason and held at Gitmo.

I've saved that picture, digitally enhanced it and zoomed in as far as I can. You can't even make out the numbers on the top one.

So, let's put it this way. You take the word of a stock-chart website that nobody's ever heard of and Iran's Ambassador to the U.N. more than you trust MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, BBC, ITN, CNNi, FNC, SKYnews, CSPAN, PBS, and every arab country that fears Iran?

You don't have access to the source image, I'm not surprised you can't zoom in to get the results you want...Here's another photo from ABC News if you doubt the authenticity of the one I provided...
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2873061

Funny, with such a recent debacle started over the President's inability to tell the truth, you're willing to give him carte blanche again.....

Well, in Bush's own words: Fool me once, shame on, shame on you..... you fool me you can't get fooled again...

With apologies to The Who...

A Fool and his credability are soon parted. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qDuG0ZYD5I)
Do you care to explain how Iranian weapons are manfactured and timestampted since you're the expert? :popcorn:

You don't need to be an expert to realize the Iranians don't use U.S. date formats on their munitions....

From Wikipedia, the only countries who use mm/dd/yy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_date
m/d/yy (month, day, year)

Using the m/d/yy format, the 30th of December 2006 would be written as 12/30/06. Note that leading zeroes in the month and day are often dropped; for example, the 1st of April 2006 would often be written as 4/1/06.

The m/d/yy format is used by:



Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada) (Although most official documents use the yyyy-mm-dd format, the m/d/yy format is also understood due to influences from the United States.)
Federated States of Micronesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federated_States_of_Micronesia)
Palau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palau)
Philippines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines) (formerly d/m/yy. May still be found in certain contexts)
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) (Although Independence Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Day_%28United_States%29) is often referred to as "the Fourth of July.")


[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Calendar_date&action=edit&section=12)]


and this format is the one used by Iran...

dd/mm/yyyy (day, month, year)

Using the dd/mm/yyyy format, the 30th of December 2006 would be written as 30/12/2006.

The dd/mm/yyyy format is used by:



Albania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania)
Argentina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina)
Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia) (d.m.yyyy, i.e. punctuated with full stops, is commonly used in Australia)
Bangladesh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh)
Barbados (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbados)
Belgium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium)
Belarus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarus)
Belize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belize)
Bolivia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivia)
Brazil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil)
Bulgaria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria) (dd.mm.yyyy)
Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada) (All 3 main types are used in Canada- in French and in English)
Chile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chile)
Colombia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombia)
Croatia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia) (d.m.yyyy.)
Cyprus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus)
Czech Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Republic) (d.m.yyyy)
Denmark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark) (often in the fraction form ^d/_m-y otherwise dd-mm-yyyy or dd-mm-yy)
Dominica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominica)
Dominican Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Republic)
Ecuador (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuador)
El Salvador (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Salvador)
Estonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonia)
Finland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland) (d.m.y)
France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France)
Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany) (using dots as in “d.m.(yy)yy”, but most often "d. month (yy)yy")
Grenada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenada)
Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece)
Guyana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guyana)
Hong Kong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong) (in English)
Iceland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland)
Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran)
Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland)
India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India)
Indonesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia)
Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel)
Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy)
Jamaica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica)
Kenya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya)
Latvia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvia) (dd.mm.yyyy is used more often, but official standard is year-month-day)
Macau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macau) (in Portuguese & English)
Malaysia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia)
Mexico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico)
Netherlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands)
New Zealand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand)
Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway) (d.m.y; the fraction form ^d/_m-y is common, but incorrect)
Pakistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan)
Paraguay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguay)
Peru (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peru)
Poland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland)
Portugal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal)
Romania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania)
Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia)
Saint Kitts and Nevis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Kitts_and_Nevis)
Saint Lucia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Lucia)
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Vincent_and_the_Grenadines)
Serbia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia) (d.m.yyyy)
Slovakia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovakia) (d.m.yyyy)
Slovenia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenia)
Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain)
Singapore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore)
Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden) (in the fraction form ^d/_m-y, otherwise yyyy-mm-dd)
Switzerland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland) (dd.mm.yyyy)
Thailand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand) (with Buddhist Era (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_solar_calendar) instead of Common Era (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Era))
Trinidad and Tobago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinidad_and_Tobago)
Turkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey)
Ukraine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine) (dd.mm.yyyy)
United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom)
Uruguay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay)
Venezuela (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela)



unless of course they are trying to make the appearance that the weapons didn't come from Iran..
Do you care to explain how Iranian weapons are manfactured and timestampted since you're the expert? :popcorn:

You don't need to be an expert to realize the Iranians don't use U.S. date formats on their munitions....And you don't need to be a Rhodes Scholar to know that the Iranians could paint anything they want on the rounds and that would not change their origin!

Only doofs like yourself who believe everything they are spoonfed are saying, "Gee, it doesn't say 'Made in Iran', so I guess it's not."

You don't need to be an expert to realize the Iranians don't use U.S. date formats on their munitions....

From Wikipedia, the only countries who use mm/dd/yy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_date
m/d/yy (month, day, year)

Using the m/d/yy format, the 30th of December 2006 would be written as 12/30/06. Note that leading zeroes in the month and day are often dropped; for example, the 1st of April 2006 would often be written as 4/1/06.

The m/d/yy format is used by:



Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada) (Although most official documents use the yyyy-mm-dd format, the m/d/yy format is also understood due to influences from the United States.)
Federated States of Micronesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federated_States_of_Micronesia)
Palau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palau)
Philippines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines) (formerly d/m/yy. May still be found in certain contexts)
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) (Although Independence Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Day_%28United_States%29) is often referred to as "the Fourth of July.")

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Calendar_date&action=edit&section=12)]


and this format is the one used by Iran...

dd/mm/yyyy (day, month, year)

Using the dd/mm/yyyy format, the 30th of December 2006 would be written as 30/12/2006.

The dd/mm/yyyy format is used by:



Albania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania)
Argentina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina)
Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia) (d.m.yyyy, i.e. punctuated with full stops, is commonly used in Australia)
Bangladesh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh)
Barbados (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbados)
Belgium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium)
Belarus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarus)
Belize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belize)
Bolivia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivia)
Brazil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil)
Bulgaria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria) (dd.mm.yyyy)
Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada) (All 3 main types are used in Canada- in French and in English)
Chile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chile)
Colombia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombia)
Croatia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia) (d.m.yyyy.)
Cyprus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus)
Czech Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Republic) (d.m.yyyy)
Denmark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark) (often in the fraction form <SUP>d</SUP>/<SUB>m</SUB>-y otherwise dd-mm-yyyy or dd-mm-yy)
Dominica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominica)
Dominican Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Republic)
Ecuador (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuador)
El Salvador (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Salvador)
Estonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonia)
Finland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland) (d.m.y)
France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France)
Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany) (using dots as in “d.m.(yy)yy”, but most often "d. month (yy)yy")
Grenada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenada)
Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece)
Guyana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guyana)
Hong Kong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong) (in English)
Iceland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland)
Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran)
Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland)
India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India)
Indonesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia)
Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel)
Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy)
Jamaica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica)
Kenya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya)
Latvia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvia) (dd.mm.yyyy is used more often, but official standard is year-month-day)
Macau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macau) (in Portuguese & English)
Malaysia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia)
Mexico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico)
Netherlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands)
New Zealand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand)
Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway) (d.m.y; the fraction form <SUP>d</SUP>/<SUB>m</SUB>-y is common, but incorrect)
Pakistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan)
Paraguay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguay)
Peru (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peru)
Poland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland)
Portugal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal)
Romania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania)
Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia)
Saint Kitts and Nevis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Kitts_and_Nevis)
Saint Lucia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Lucia)
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Vincent_and_the_Grenadines)
Serbia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia) (d.m.yyyy)
Slovakia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovakia) (d.m.yyyy)
Slovenia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenia)
Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain)
Singapore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore)
Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden) (in the fraction form <SUP>d</SUP>/<SUB>m</SUB>-y, otherwise yyyy-mm-dd)
Switzerland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland) (dd.mm.yyyy)
Thailand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand) (with Buddhist Era (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_solar_calendar) instead of Common Era (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Era))
Trinidad and Tobago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinidad_and_Tobago)
Turkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey)
Ukraine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine) (dd.mm.yyyy)
United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom)
Uruguay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay)
Venezuela (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela)


unless of course they are trying to make the appearance that the weapons didn't come from Iran..
Does our military use that timestamp?

Do they use 12hr. also?

:popcorn:

You don't have access to the source image, I'm not surprised you can't zoom in to get the results you want...Here's another photo from ABC News if you doubt the authenticity of the one I provided...
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2873061

Funny, with such a recent debacle started over the President's inability to tell the truth, you're willing to give him carte blanche again.....

Well, in Bush's own words: Fool me once, shame on, shame on you..... you fool me you can't get fooled again...

With apologies to The Who...

A Fool and his credability are soon parted. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qDuG0ZYD5I)
You're still talking about RPG's, these are NOT the weapons the president is talking about.. He's talking about stand mines, anti tank, anti vehicle mines that are set on the side of the road, and using a shaped charge send a jet of molten metal into a target, in this case I think they say the metal chosen is copper. These are distinct weapons to Iran, unlike the RPG that has been in production in many Eastern Bloc, African and other countries since the 50 and 60's and would be near impossible to tell the age or trace it back to it's origin.

But thanks for playing.

I think that we are not stupid and its pretty clear that some form of weaponry is coming from Iran or agents of Iran. They captured Iranian commando's running loose in Iraq. Muqtada Al Sadr ran and hid in Iran prior to the US/Iraqi security crackdown in Baghdad. It would be stupid for Iran not to support their little groups of people in Iraq, I mean after all, when the US "leaves" this just makes it that much easier for them to come in and attempt to run things.

I would imagine not just with the date stamps on these items but you also know that they can send the explosives to FBI/ATF labs to determine its origin. They have metallurgists who work for the DOD/FBI/ATF who can determine where the metals are being made using tests. Alot of the things they find in Iraq they are using present day CSI techniques to prove things.... whether its a crime scene to the origin of a piece of evidence. I think people suspected Iranian influence all along since the advent of IED's but now that they are finding devices manufactured in a specific way, this came out of some sort of factory, certainly not a factory in Iraq.

Another thing. Even if someone was to frame Iran, and lets just say that the evidence was planted to start things. And let me guess, the IED's aren't coming from Iran, they are coming from Syria. Or perhaps N. Korea. Like thats any better....

:popcorn:

Alot of the things they find in Iraq they are using present day CSI techniques to prove things.... whether its a crime scene to the origin of a piece of evidence.

Ok, CSI.. I watched it this week.. Friggin hilarious.. Guy gets shot, one of the "CSI's with a .223.. and they say had to be a pistol.. .223 is a pistol cartridge. Halfway through the show they say.. well a .223 COULD be a rifle cartridge too.. they recover 15% of a 22 caliber bullet and MIRACULOUSLY make a match.. and not only a match to type of weapon, a ruger 10/22 (rifled in .223 of course) but from the ballistics they could tell the Ruger had a SCOPE and a BIPOD.. WOW, now that's science right there..

This is like one of those pictures in the comics pages.. there are 8 - 50 things wrong with this, can you find them all??

Ok, CSI.. I watched it this week.. Friggin hilarious.. Guy gets shot, one of the "CSI's with a .223.. and they say had to be a pistol.. .223 is a pistol cartridge. Halfway through the show they say.. well a .223 COULD be a rifle cartridge too.. they recover 15% of a 22 caliber bullet and MIRACULOUSLY make a match.. and not only a match to type of weapon, a ruger 10/22 (rifled in .223 of course) but from the ballistics they could tell the Ruger had a SCOPE and a BIPOD.. WOW, now that's science right there..

This is like one of those pictures in the comics pages.. there are 8 - 50 things wrong with this, can you find them all??
Forestal, do you want me to walk you through all the mistakes, or are you going to wait for Pelosi to chime in??

Depending on the barrel length of the weapon it could be considered a pistol under BATF rules. They are pretty good at determining what kind of weapon fired that bullet...

For example... A rifle would make the bullet have a different effect on the victim than a pistol would. Judging by the bi-pod and the scope, well it would be safe to say that a person was able to steady the shot well and shoot in a particular manner as to such where they were able to place the shot. Thats hard to do at long distances with iron sights? lol.

Regardless... The point is, there are alot of agencies who have been working in Iraq to do good things like help identify the remains that they have found in Haditha where mass gravesites have been found, and archeologists who are helping restore babylon where saddam painted his face all over historic ruins, in addition to restoring power, water, and oil output so that the country may generate revenue to fund a future government. :popcorn:

Depending on the barrel length of the weapon it could be considered a pistol under BATF rules. They are pretty good at determining what kind of weapon fired that bullet...

For example... A rifle would make the bullet have a different effect on the victim than a pistol would. Judging by the bi-pod and the scope, well it would be safe to say that a person was able to steady the shot well and shoot in a particular manner as to such where they were able to place the shot. Thats hard to do at long distances with iron sights? lol.

Regardless... The point is, there are alot of agencies who have been working in Iraq to do good things like help identify the remains that they have found in Haditha where mass gravesites have been found, and archeologists who are helping restore babylon where saddam painted his face all over historic ruins, in addition to restoring power, water, and oil output so that the country may generate revenue to fund a future government. :popcorn:

And other then MAYBE the TC Contender, how many handguns are rifled in .223??


It was pretty funny, don't like CSI Miami to begin with, and that one just sealed the deal!

Land mines, RPGs, whatever. It's still the president talking. If he said the sky is blue, knowing his character, I'd have to double check it.


You're still talking about RPG's, these are NOT the weapons the president is talking about.. He's talking about stand mines, anti tank, anti vehicle mines that are set on the side of the road, and using a shaped charge send a jet of molten metal into a target, in this case I think they say the metal chosen is copper. These are distinct weapons to Iran, unlike the RPG that has been in production in many Eastern Bloc, African and other countries since the 50 and 60's and would be near impossible to tell the age or trace it back to it's origin.

But thanks for playing.

Maybe I should clue you in on your mistakes...

I'd like to have one of these....

Kel-Tec PLR-16 Long Range Pistol 223



<img src="http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/kel_plr.jpg"\>

http://www.impactguns.com/store/640832000375.html

Ok, CSI.. I watched it this week.. Friggin hilarious.. Guy gets shot, one of the "CSI's with a .223.. and they say had to be a pistol.. .223 is a pistol cartridge. Halfway through the show they say.. well a .223 COULD be a rifle cartridge too.. they recover 15% of a 22 caliber bullet and MIRACULOUSLY make a match.. and not only a match to type of weapon, a ruger 10/22 (rifled in .223 of course) but from the ballistics they could tell the Ruger had a SCOPE and a BIPOD.. WOW, now that's science right there..

This is like one of those pictures in the comics pages.. there are 8 - 50 things wrong with this, can you find them all??

Land mines, RPGs, whatever. It's still the president talking. If he said the sky is blue, knowing his character, I'd have to double check it.
No, it's not whatever.. you provided fabricated proof of something. He talks of current day anti vehicle mines, and you say he's a liar by showing me an RPG round that has been in production for 40 years.

Sucks when you try to force your agenda to the unkowing, and there is someone present that knows what the hell he is talking about.

Maybe I should clue you in on your mistakes...

I'd like to have one of these....

Kel-Tec PLR-16 Long Range Pistol 223



<img src="http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/kel_plr.jpg"\>

http://www.impactguns.com/store/640832000375.html
I did mention ONE pistol that is rifled in .223, and I offered is there any other.. but I see you chose to leave that off of my quote..

So if I took a bullet fragment from that gun I could tell using ballistics if it had a scope mounted on it or not??

Beats me. It's got a picatinny rail for one, but I can't imagine that a barrel that short would be very accurate for more than 100 yards.


I did mention ONE pistol that is rifled in .223, and I offered is there any other.. but I see you chose to leave that off of my quote..

So if I took a bullet fragment from that gun I could tell using ballistics if it had a scope mounted on it or not??

Talks about RPG's one day, and land mines the next..What's yer point?


No, it's not whatever.. you provided fabricated proof of something. He talks of current day anti vehicle mines, and you say he's a liar by showing me an RPG round that has been in production for 40 years.

Sucks when you try to force your agenda to the unkowing, and there is someone present that knows what the hell he is talking about.

Talks about RPG's one day, and land mines the next..What's yer point?
Which model RPG does he talk about?. Those are 7's that you keep showing pictures of, and NOT the ones they are discussing

This is the RPG 29, that they think IRAN is supplying to Iraq insurgents..

<img src='http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/4/40/180px-RPG-29_USGov.JPG'>

There is also the RPG 27, that is VERY similar to our AT-4 that is in question..

<img src='http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/ORD_RPG_27.jpg'>

Next time do some research before you start posting pictures and untruths.. or post where there aren't any people that would know the difference between an RPG and AK 47

what sucks is Iran is more then likely proving exaclty what they say they are providing to the Iraqi insurgents. But after the mess in Iraq with the faulty intelligence and the tailored assesments and everything else that has come out about the lead up to the invasion to Iraq, we have totally blown our credibility and no one is willing to believe us that iran is providing arms.