Since Obama-rama is in full swing & he will be giving (what is being touted as) a major speech today regarding all this brouhahah with his pastor - I offer the following article by Thomas Sowell:

Thomas Sowell on Race & Politics on National Review Online (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTQ0MDI5ZDE5MTcyYjBmMjI0MmVhZjhiOTM2MDI5NzM)=

A very good read, and I agree 100% with Dr. Sowell - especially this part:


"...The fact that Obama talks differently than Jeremiah Wright does not mean that his track record is different. Barack Obama’s voting record in the Senate is perfectly consistent with the far-left ideology and the grievance culture, just as his wife’s statement that she was never proud of her country before is consistent with that ideology.

Senator Barack Obama’s political success thus far has been a blow for equality. But equality has its down side.

Equality means that a black demagogue who has been exposed as a phony deserves exactly the same treatment as a white demagogue who has been exposed as a phony.

We don’t need a president of the United States who got to the White House by talking one way, voting a very different way in the Senate, and who for 20 years followed a man whose words and deeds contradict Obama’s carefully crafted election-year image.

Equality means that a black demagogue who has been exposed as a phony deserves exactly the same treatment as a white demagogue who has been exposed as a phony.

:yay:

Can we call a racist, a racist, without being called racist?

I doubt it, but Obama is a racist. Call me what you like.

Once again... it pains me to see folks who have decried the Democrat's tactics for years, stooping to their tactics. This will be the first time since the Nixon-McGovern race that two diametrically opposed sides, who openly profess their leanings, will be going at it in an election. There isn't going to be a lot of running to the middle in this election, and the issues will be the prime driver. And what do conservatives and Republicans want to do? They want to take the Democrat low road and attack a guy based on what his preacher said, the old Guilt By Religious Affiliation road that we just said was closed after Romney was attacked for being a Morman.

I wonder how much more pathetic we can get.

They want to take the Democrat low road and attack a guy based on what his preacher said

Are we just supposed to ignore it and pretend that Barack Obama hasn't been going to an anti-white hate America church for 20 years?

See, Larry - I TOLD you. THIS is the spin and what it will boil down to - all the Republicans' fault.

Can we call a racist, a racist, without being called racist?

I doubt it, but Obama is a racist. Call me what you like.

...50% white (both his mothers parents were white) and he is something like 40% black and 10% Arab due to the background of his dad.

So, racist against who? Against himself?

If I were him, that would be central to my speech today, that I am mixed race and, thus, can NOT be racist.

Are we just supposed to ignore it and pretend that Barack Obama hasn't been going to an anti-white hate America church for 20 years?

See, Larry - I TOLD you. THIS is the spin and what it will boil down to - all the Republicans' fault.

....SOME of the spin. I offer you hope, I offer you change, a belief in a brighter tomorrow where we call a shovel a...err...uh...no, no...uh, where we call things as we want others to see it...uhhh...no....truth....hope...CHANGE!!!

Spin back!!!

Once again... it pains me to see folks who have decried the Democrat's tactics for years, stooping to their tactics.

You can't be serious.


They want to take the Democrat low road and attack a guy based on what his preacher said, the old Guilt By Religious Affiliation road that we just said was closed after Romney was attacked for being a Morman.

Well, I have my issues with Mormonism, but I'm fairly certain that if you go to a Mormon Church you won't walk out covered by the preacher's venomous mouth-froth after an anti-American and blatantly racist screed.

And if I had heard soundbytes of the person who Romney pointed out as his spiritual mentor and member of his family go off on a foam-flecked, racist and anti-American diatribe such as the ones (plural) I heard this morning, I promise you that I would, personally, be at the front of the torch-wielding mob.

I wonder how much more pathetic we can get.


I agree - but, apparently, for different reasons than you.

And what do conservatives and Republicans want to do? They want to take the Democrat low road and attack a guy based on what his preacher said, the old Guilt By Religious Affiliation road that we just said was closed after Romney was attacked for being a Morman.

I wonder how much more pathetic we can get.just making a joke right? Right???

I say this because no one in their sane mind would believe that a man follows his spirtual leader for 20 years without picking up on and agreeing with his message.

That's a pretty lame joke there Bruz.... :killingme

You can't be serious.You beat me....

Are we just supposed to ignore it and pretend that Barack Obama hasn't been going to an anti-white hate America church for 20 years?

See, Larry - I TOLD you. THIS is the spin and what it will boil down to - all the Republicans' fault.

Please... the Catholic Churches have been preaching intollerance for years! In fact all churches do to one extent or another. The concept that this Wright guy and his church are the only ones who preach intollerance of others is just plain silly. The only difference is that you are now hearing a preacher attacking things you value. I just found out that my great-grandmother engineered the ending of three of her five kids's marriages, including that of my own grandparents, and forced two of my uncles to change their names and convert their religion, all in the name of oberserving the dogma of the Catholics. You're just having the same reaction to being at the receiving end of a religious attack that gays, divoricees, woman who had abortions, Jews, Muslims, and others have had to endure and you aren't liking it any better than they did. And when these groups were attacked, what was the position of most church-going conservatives? "Hey... that's the church's issues, the church's views, not those of the candidate!" We then attacked Democrats and Liberals for dragging religion into politics, for attacking a candidate because of something some off-the-wall preacher said, for using scare tactics to think that a candidate would blindly adhere to everything that his church said to do. Remember when we used to see this practice as wrong? And what are we doing when given the same opportunity? What was wrong suddenly becomes okay for us to do, and when we think like that we become more and more like those we oppose.

Are all Christians anti-gay because they attend churches that don't accept homosexualism? Are all Christians anti-Jew because some church leaders require Jews to convert to marry? Are all Jews anti-Christian because some church leaders require non-Jews to convert to marry? As for Wright and Obama, all you know for sure is that Obama has been going to his church for 20 years. How long has Wright been making these comments? 20 years? 20 months? 5 years? We don't know, so saying that Obama's been hearing these things for 20 years is not a factual statement and just a personal judgement... another thing we have rallied aganst over the years.

Is Wright a racist, anti-American, bigot? He could be. But people won't be voting for him any more than people who voted for Romney were voting for Brigham Young, or people who voted for Bush were voting for Bob Young or Jerry Falwell.

just making a joke right? Right???

I say this because no one in their sane mind would believe that a man follows his spirtual leader for 20 years without picking up on and agreeing with his message.

That's a pretty lame joke there Bruz.... :killingme

For well over 50 years, guys like Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and Billy Graham have served as "spiritual advisers" to Republican presidents going back to Eisenhower. All of these guys have made devisive, racist, predjudiced, intollerent, and anti-American statements that are just as bad as those of Wright. But we always urged everyone, even the offended, to vote for these candidates based on their own convictions and not those of any minister the candidate talks to or takes advice from.

Okay... explain this to me... besides the fact that many on the Right are now being offended, what's the difference between Graham, Falwell, and Wright?

Please... the Catholic Churches have been preaching intollerance for years! In fact all churches do to one extent or another. The concept that this Wright guy and his church are the only ones who preach intollerance of others is just plain silly. The only difference is that you are now hearing a preacher attacking things you value. I just found out that my great-grandmother engineered the ending of three of her five kids's marriages, including that of my own grandparents, and forced two of my uncles to change their names and convert their religion, all in the name of oberserving the dogma of the Catholics. You're just having the same reaction to being at the receiving end of a religious attack that gays, divoricees, woman who had abortions, Jews, Muslims, and others have had to endure and you aren't liking it any better than they did. And when these groups were attacked, what was the position of most church-going conservatives? "Hey... that's the church's issues, the church's views, not those of the candidate!" We then attacked Democrats and Liberals for dragging religion into politics, for attacking a candidate because of something some off-the-wall preacher said, for using scare tactics to think that a candidate would blindly adhere to everything that his church said to do. Remember when we used to see this practice as wrong? And what are we doing when given the same opportunity? What was wrong suddenly becomes okay for us to do, and when we think like that we become more and more like those we oppose.

Are all Christians anti-gay because they attend churches that don't accept homosexualism? Are all Christians anti-Jew because some church leaders require Jews to convert to marry? Are all Jews anti-Christian because some church leaders require non-Jews to convert to marry? As for Wright and Obama, all you know for sure is that Obama has been going to his church for 20 years. How long has Wright been making these comments? 20 years? 20 months? 5 years? We don't know, so saying that Obama's been hearing these things for 20 years is not a factual statement and just a personal judgement... another thing we have rallied aganst over the years.

Is Wright a racist, anti-American, bigot? He could be. But people won't be voting for him any more than people who voted for Romney were voting for Brigham Young, or people who voted for Bush were voting for Bob Young or Jerry Falwell.

Well, excuse the #### out of us for thinking this guy dosen't have our best interests at heart. We know he has blacks and the African continent high on his list but strangely, I don't get a warm fuzzy from him. Odd that...

Well, excuse the #### out of us for thinking this guy dosen't have our best interests at heart. We know he has blacks and the African continent high on his list but strangely, I don't get a warm fuzzy from him. Odd that...

I cant believe anyone is falling for his crap at least with Clinton, she ll put her hand over her heart for the pledge of alliegence. Lets vote for someone that doesnt believe on the foundations this country was founded on:sarcasm: I cant believe no one has their BS detector going off on this guy, am I the only one that senses that Bacrock O Bamma says one thing and does two entirely different things?

Well, excuse the #### out of us for thinking this guy dosen't have our best interests at heart. We know he has blacks and the African continent high on his list but strangely, I don't get a warm fuzzy from him. Odd that...

Please don't confuse the issues. I agree 100% that Obama doesn't have "our" best interests at heart. I look at Obama and see the second coming of George McGovern, and a guy who, if he gets his way, will push for every entitlement and giveaway program you can imagine. He'll screw over the taxpayers and reward the deadbeats, of that I am sure. But that's not the issue here. I have no issues with challenging Obama on his views about entitlements or higher taxes, or challenging him on any statements he may have ever made that are similar to those of Wrights. All of that is fair game.

The issue here is when we attack Obama for what his minister/church has said, not what Obama has said, we are stooping to the same despicable tactics that we have damned the Democrats for for decades. We looked down on the Dems as anti-religious, kool-aid drinking, power-crazed people who would do anything to get or keep power. And look at what we're becoming... the exact same thing. We have urged reconciliation and tolerance from people who oppose the view of the religious dogma we approve of, then attack someone who hears a dogma that we don't like. We ignore all the negatives of our candidate and lie to ourselves that he might be a conservative, and even Limbaugh says it's perfectly okay to use the same dirty tricks the Democrats use... and this coming from a guy who has always preached that Republicans win when we stick to our core ideals.

I cant believe no one has their BS detector going off on this guy, am I the only one that senses that Bacrock O Bamma says one thing and does two entirely different things?

You mean like John McCain?

Please don't confuse the issues. I agree 100% that Obama doesn't have "our" best interests at heart. I look at Obama and see the second coming of George McGovern,

...fair, at all. To McGovern.

For well over 50 years, guys like Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and Billy Graham have served as "spiritual advisers" to Republican presidents going back to Eisenhower. All of these guys have made devisive, racist, predjudiced, intollerent, and anti-American statements that are just as bad as those of Wright. But we always urged everyone, even the offended, to vote for these candidates based on their own convictions and not those of any minister the candidate talks to or takes advice from.

Okay... explain this to me... besides the fact that many on the Right are now being offended, what's the difference between Graham, Falwell, and Wright?Are Graham and Falwell screaming "GOD DAMN AMERICA"??

Does Graham and Falwell advocate the advancement of only their race?

Do Graham and Falwell have written in their ministries core values that they are solely dedicated to another country?

Do Graham and Falwell scream that another race has (and is) holding them down?

Please... the Catholic Churches have been preaching intollerance for years! In fact all churches do to one extent or another.


You don't see a difference in "Our religious beliefs are sacrosanct and correct" and "GOD DAMN AMERICA"?

If you can't ...

Well, if you can't then I don't know what to say.


The concept that this Wright guy and his church are the only ones who preach intollerance of others is just plain silly.

I've been to Churches. I've been to Catholic Churches.

NEVER - and I mean NEVER - IN MY LIFE have I heard the kind of bigotted hate filled hysteria that I heard this morning. And if I did, you bet your ass that I would have walked the #### out.

Here's the other thing... Does Wright have the right to say the things he says? Sure he does. And if he wants to sit in his little vat of hatred and spit venom at the rest of the world, then he's more than welcome to. If he wants to preach intolerance and hold protests and wish death on the white man, that's his God given right.

But do you really think that one of his followers - someone that has broken bread with this nut, someone that referred to him as AN UNCLE - to be LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD? That's what the problem is. That someone who is the member of the flock of a man who by his own mouth has cursed this country MAY BE IN CHARGE OF IT!

WTF?


Is Wright a racist, anti-American, bigot? He could be.

Don't mean to be a spelling nazi - but you misspelled "You're ####ing-A right, he is."

But people won't be voting for him any more than people who voted for Romney were voting for Brigham Young, or people who voted for Bush were voting for Bob Young or Jerry Falwell.

No, they're only going to be voting for someone who has voluntarily allied themselves with him for the past 20 ####ing years.

Not his religion. Not his spirituality... HIM. Personally.


I'm sorry - but that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard you say.

Okay... explain this to me... besides the fact that many on the Right are now being offended, what's the difference between Graham, Falwell, and Wright?



God.

Damn.

America.




Hello?

:rolleyes:

And some people wonder why the conservative movement is dying. :lol:
What a bunch of whackjobs. (Bruzilla excluded.)

I'm hoping some of you may be acting this way just because it's the internet...and you think it's fun to engage in public displays of group tardation. But I'm certain many of you actually buy into the BS you're spewing...chugging the kool-aid in between posts.


What an embarrassment.
Reinforcing the caricature of the Republican Right...one thread at a time. :yay:

:rolleyes:

And some people wonder why the conservative movement is dying. :lol:
What a bunch of whackjobs. (Bruzilla excluded.)

I'm hoping some of you may be acting this way just because it's the internet...and you think it's fun to engage in public displays of group tardation. But I'm certain many of you actually buy into the BS you're spewing...chugging the kool-aid in between posts.


What an embarrassment.
Reinforcing the caricature of the Republican Right...one thread at a time. :yay:



Nice logical arguments there one and all.



And I'm not a conservative. I just happen to have a problem with anyone that would vote for a man that has allied himself to someone that would curse this country.


But hey - if that sort of thing floats your boat, then by all means cast your vote accordingly.

...fair, at all. To McGovern.

I still remember the day I became a Republican. I was watching TVand I saw a Nixon ad with a guy working high steel in some city. He takes a lunch break and sits down on a girder. He starts looking down at all the people scurrying abour below him, and the voice over starts saying how if McGovern is elected, one out of ever three people will be on welfare or receiving entitlements, all at the cost of the increased taxes.

I watched that commercial and said "I'm a Republican."

Nice logical arguments there one and all.



And I'm not a conservative. I just happen to have a problem with anyone that would vote for a man that has allied himself to someone that would curse this country.


But hey - if that sort of thing floats your boat, then by all means cast your vote accordingly.

Enlightened isn't he?

God.

Damn.

America.




Hello?

I really hope America wakes up and now realizes this guy is full of :gossip: and has been from the get go.

:rolleyes:

And some people wonder why the conservative movement is dying. :lol:
What a bunch of whackjobs. (Bruzilla excluded.)

I'm hoping some of you may be acting this way just because it's the internet...and you think it's fun to engage in public displays of group tardation. But I'm certain many of you actually buy into the BS you're spewing...chugging the kool-aid in between posts.


What an embarrassment.
Reinforcing the caricature of the Republican Right...one thread at a time. :yay:I see I've given you undue credit in the past.

YOU are the whack job! You'd also be the first screaming to us to save your pathetic ass if the obama's and wrights got their way.

You need to pull your turban a lil tighter, take another swig of Mohammed's koolaid and head on over to the mountains of Kabul there achmed.

NEVER - and I mean NEVER - IN MY LIFE have I heard the kind of bigotted hate filled hysteria that I heard this morning. And if I did, you bet your ass that I would have walked the #### out.

Thank you for reaffirming my point. Yes, you could walk out... that's called religious freedom. Or, you could have stayed and cheered... that's called religious freedom too. Or, you could have stayed and talked to the minister afterwards and said you objected to what he said... that's called religious freedom too. We are not supposed to hold how anyone views their religious freedom against them... but it looks like now it's okay to do so if it helps us keep the White House.

As to your views of the Christian churches, you are wearing those rose colored glasses. Try going through sermons from the Jew-hating 1930s, or the Black-hating 1960s, or the Gay-hating 1990s. What's the difference between saying "God Damn America!" and "God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve"?

Nice logical arguments there one and all.



And I'm not a conservative. I just happen to have a problem with anyone that would vote for a man that has allied himself to someone that would curse this country.


But hey - if that sort of thing floats your boat, then by all means cast your vote accordingly.

Didn't a lot of us vote for George Bush, who is allied with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, the former of whom said "God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve" and the later who agreed with his comment?

I see I've given you undue credit in the past.

YOU are the whack job! You'd also be the first screaming to us to save your pathetic ass if the obama's and wrights got their way.

You need to pull your turban a lil tighter, take another swig of Mohammed's koolaid and head on over to the mountains of Kabul there achmed.

I don't need any credit from the likes of you. Just knowing I'm nothing like you is all I need to feel good about myself. :yay:

What a bunch of whackjobs. (Bruzilla excluded.)



Can I take that you, like Bruzilla, feel that "God Damn America" is nothing to care about? Is that belief a positive for a presidential candidate?

This is a complete deal breaker for me. Until I saw that video, and Obama's lame attempt to distance him from those remarks, I saw him as one of the lesser evils.

The way he handled this issue has put me solidly in the camp of "anyone but Obama."

Didn't a lot of us vote for George Bush, who is allied with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, the former of whom said "God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve" and the later who agreed with his comment?

Define "allied".

Define "allied".

...Falwell or Robertson say 'God damn America' in church. And he said 9/11 was them queers fault.

Thank you for reaffirming my point. Yes, you could walk out... that's called religious freedom. Or, you could have stayed and cheered... that's called religious freedom too. Or, you could have stayed and talked to the minister afterwards and said you objected to what he said... that's called religious freedom too. We are not supposed to hold how anyone views their religious freedom against them... but it looks like now it's okay to do so if it helps us keep the White House.



Unless Libertarians are elected, I will never "keep" the White House.

Stop lumping me in with the ####ing conservatives. I hate right-wing BS as much as I hate left-wing BS.



There just happens to be much more left-wing BS for me to be vocal about.



Now, as I said above, religious freedom is one thing. If Obama wants to stand up an cheer when someone says GOD DAMN AMERICA, then let him... That's not what I have a problem with.

I have a big problem with ELECTING someone who voluntarily follows and financially supports a man who does this.


And you seem to laboring under the delusion that I'm defending prejudice and hatred in ANY church past or present. I know what the Church has done, I don't need a history lesson. But that's not the point. Are any other candidates the spiritual proteges of a racist lunatic?



I will make you this promise right now.


If a White Anglo-Saxon Christian (no-doubt Republican) presidential candidate is someday discovered to be a member of the congregation of an America-hating racist, I will denounce that person and I hang posters of that person's face inside a slashed-circle.

I haven't been able to find anything about Bush supporting/agreeing with Robertson. I did find a few things about Robertson disagreeing with Bush though. Best I could find between Bush and Falwell was an extremely lukewarm statement after he died. :shrug:

Didn't a lot of us vote for George Bush, who is allied with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, the former of whom said "God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve" and the later who agreed with his comment?

What do you mean "allied with"?


As far as I know the only "alliance" between Bush, Falwell and Robertson is that they're all Christians.




So is Wright, is he not?

Obama Race Speech: Read The Full Text - Politics on The Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/18/obama-race-speech-read-t_n_92077.html)

I don't need any credit from the likes of you. Just knowing I'm nothing like you is all I need to feel good about myself. :yay:Here's the thing Kerad. You don't equate a pimple on my taint. In fact, because they are on my taint, they're much better than you.

Knowing that you're the opposite of me is perfectly fine. I love my country and despise anyone who doesn't. I'd die defending her, even if it means protecting cowards like you.

:rolleyes:

And some people wonder why the conservative movement is dying. :lol:
What a bunch of whackjobs. (Bruzilla excluded.)

I'm hoping some of you may be acting this way just because it's the internet...and you think it's fun to engage in public displays of group tardation. But I'm certain many of you actually buy into the BS you're spewing...chugging the kool-aid in between posts.


What an embarrassment.
Reinforcing the caricature of the Republican Right...one thread at a time. :yay:

I wouldn't be too quick to gloat. The Republican party may be sinking, but it's to a level that the Democrats have been at for a long time. :razz:

Can I take that you, like Bruzilla, feel that "God Damn America" is nothing to care about? Is that belief a positive for a presidential candidate?

This is a complete deal breaker for me. Until I saw that video, and Obama's lame attempt to distance him from those remarks, I saw him as one of the lesser evils.

The way he handled this issue has put me solidly in the camp of "anyone but Obama."

It would be something to care about if it was a video of Obama saying that.

Honestly...are you really so simple minded that your brain is actually thinking: "Oh my! If Obama's minister/friend is saying those things, then that means Obama certainly must feel the exact same!!!"

Really? It's just that simple???


I'm not saying you should vote for Obama. I'm sure 99% of you Righties weren't going to vote for him no matter what....which is why I stayed out of most of the Obama talk.

It's not as if his buddy was indicted for any criminal wrong doing, as in Giuliani's case. And it's not even that Obama said anything inflammatory.

Yet here you are... :jameo: ...because Obama's minister said something controversial.


It really would be funny if you all weren't serious. Now it's just sad.

...Falwell or Robertson say 'God damn America' in church. And he said 9/11 was them queers fault.

Larry... for crying out loud!!! You're on the internet all friggin day, and you can't figure out what is the truth and what is spin. What's the deal with you? Falwell never mentioned "queers" in that statement. He, and Robertson, said the following:

Falwell: "What we saw on Tuesday, as terrible as it is, could be miniscule if, in fact, God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve."
Robertson: "Well, Jerry, that's my feeling. I think we've just seen the antechamber to terror, we haven't begun to see what they can do to the major population."
Falwell: "The ACLU has got to take a lot of blame for this. And I know I'll hear from them for this, but throwing God...successfully with the help of the federal court system...throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools, the abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked and when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad...I really believe that the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who try to secularize America...I point the thing in their face and say you helped this happen."
Robertson: "I totally concur, and the problem is we've adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government, and so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do, and the top people, of course, is the court system."
Falwell: "Pat, did you notice yesterday that the ACLU and all the Christ-haters, the People for the American Way, NOW, etc., were totally disregarded by the Democrats and the Republicans in both houses of Congress, as they went out on the steps and and called out to God in prayer and sang 'God bless America' and said, let the ACLU be hanged. In other words, when the nation is on its knees, the only normal and natural and spiritual thing to do is what we ought to be doing all the time, calling on God."

It would be something to care about if it was a video of Obama saying that.


Say you're watching a video of a Klan meeting.


The Grand Wizard is up there talking, making an elaborate hate filled speech to the cheering mass surrounding him.



Now.... Who in the video do you have a problem with - the Grand Wizard, or every single mother ####er wearing a sheet?






Just curious.

Here's the thing Kerad. You don't equate a pimple on my taint. In fact, because they are on my taint, they're much better than you.

Knowing that you're the opposite of me is perfectly fine. I love my country and despise anyone who doesn't. I'd die defending her, even if it means protecting cowards like you.

Yeah yeah...time for the internet patriot talk. :blahblah:
So impressive.

:bigwhoop:

Larry... for crying out loud!!! You're on the internet all friggin day, and you can't figure out what is the truth and what is spin. What's the deal with you? Falwell never mentioned "queers" in that statement. He, and Robertson, said the following:

Falwell: "What we saw on Tuesday, as terrible as it is, could be miniscule if, in fact, God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve."
Robertson: "Well, Jerry, that's my feeling. I think we've just seen the antechamber to terror, we haven't begun to see what they can do to the major population."
Falwell: "The ACLU has got to take a lot of blame for this. And I know I'll hear from them for this, but throwing God...successfully with the help of the federal court system...throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools, the abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked and when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad...I really believe that the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who try to secularize America...I point the thing in their face and say you helped this happen."
Robertson: "I totally concur, and the problem is we've adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government, and so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do, and the top people, of course, is the court system."
Falwell: "Pat, did you notice yesterday that the ACLU and all the Christ-haters, the People for the American Way, NOW, etc., were totally disregarded by the Democrats and the Republicans in both houses of Congress, as they went out on the steps and and called out to God in prayer and sang 'God bless America' and said, let the ACLU be hanged. In other words, when the nation is on its knees, the only normal and natural and spiritual thing to do is what we ought to be doing all the time, calling on God."


See???

What do you mean "allied with"?

As far as I know the only "alliance" between Bush, Falwell and Robertson is that they're all Christians.

So is Wright, is he not?

I mean allied with as in attending their sermons, having them as guests to the White House, calling them friends, trusted advisers, and confidants, supporting their views on religion, abortion, gay marriage, etc... you know... allied with. As opposed to say, Jessie Jackson, who gets a "None of the Above" to the aforementioned behaviors.

Since Obama said he has always been a Christian I can only assume that Wright is as well. But I doubt that Wright has preached opening your arms to rich white people any more than Falwell preached opening your arms to gays.

Larry... for crying out loud!!! You're on the internet all friggin day, and you can't figure out what is the truth and what is spin. What's the deal with you? Falwell never mentioned "queers" in that statement. He, and Robertson, said the following:

Falwell: "What we saw on Tuesday, as terrible as it is, could be miniscule if, in fact, God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve."
Robertson: "Well, Jerry, that's my feeling. I think we've just seen the antechamber to terror, we haven't begun to see what they can do to the major population."
Falwell: "The ACLU has got to take a lot of blame for this. And I know I'll hear from them for this, but throwing God...successfully with the help of the federal court system...throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools, the abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked and when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad...I really believe that the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who try to secularize America...I point the thing in their face and say you helped this happen."
Robertson: "I totally concur, and the problem is we've adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government, and so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do, and the top people, of course, is the court system."
Falwell: "Pat, did you notice yesterday that the ACLU and all the Christ-haters, the People for the American Way, NOW, etc., were totally disregarded by the Democrats and the Republicans in both houses of Congress, as they went out on the steps and and called out to God in prayer and sang 'God bless America' and said, let the ACLU be hanged. In other words, when the nation is on its knees, the only normal and natural and spiritual thing to do is what we ought to be doing all the time, calling on God."

Yup. Robertson and Falwell are idiots. I don't think you'll get any argument from anybody here. Where's the alliance with Bush?

Yeah yeah...time for the internet patriot talk. :blahblah:
So impressive.

:bigwhoop:You should be impressed. I can prove I'm a patriot. Can you? :popcorn:

It would be something to care about if it was a video of Obama saying that.

Honestly...are you really so simple minded that your brain is actually thinking: "Oh my! If Obama's minister/friend is saying those things, then that means Obama certainly must feel the exact same!!!"

Really? It's just that simple???So, he wasn't at the church EVERY Sunday, right? There's not much shock in that, who is? Let's say he's more religious than the average liberal, and went once a month. For twenty years. Quick math makes that 240 sermons. Now, if you heard 240 sermons, do you think you'd get a pretty good feel for who the pastor was?

I'm guessing you'd say you'd have a good feel for 240 sermons as to what the pastor thinks. So, you know that these types of things are a norm for this guy (if they had ONE statement, or someone said "wow, that's not like him at all", I'd have to argue against this assumption. No one's done that, so I think it's a fair assumption to say the recorded sermons are normal for the pastor).

Knowing that this is normal for him, you - Barry Obama - have a choice. You can continue to go to this guy, or you can find someone who holds views you agree with more. Unless, of course, these ARE the views you agree with more.

Well, how can we determine that? Did he actively support this man's rhetoric? Well, to the tunes of tens of thousands of dollars and a position in his campaign, I'd have to say yes.

So, is it THAT simple to presume what Wright says is indicative of what Barry thinks? Yes, it's that simple.I'm not saying you should vote for Obama. I'm sure 99% of you Righties weren't going to vote for him no matter what....which is why I stayed out of most of the Obama talk.

It's not as if his buddy was indicted for any criminal wrong doing, as in Giuliani's case. And it's not even that Obama said anything inflammatory.

Yet here you are... :jameo: ...because Obama's minister said something controversial.


It really would be funny if you all weren't serious. Now it's just sad.You're right, it's not like he's a Clinton, who's business partners routinely wind up in jail, indicted, or just dead (appropriate not for Bill, but for Hillary Rodham). While it's true that many conservatives would not vote for such a confirmed and paper-trailed liberal as Barry (for ideological reasons), this provides yet another insight into the man to show not voting for him for patriotic and race relation reasons, either. After all, it can be shown that the current (Republican) president has shown the greatest amount of racial diversity in his cabinet EVER, yet we "righties" are accused of the racism.

Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Your "sad", serious condemnation of open discussion is not funny in any way.

Yeah yeah...time for the internet patriot talk. :blahblah:
So impressive.

:bigwhoop:

What time you want to meet at the lake........:howdy:

I mean allied with as in attending their sermons, having them as guests to the White House, calling them friends, trusted advisers, and confidants, supporting their views on religion, abortion, gay marriage, etc... you know... allied with.

Well two things with that:

I've never been a Bush fan. I only voted for him once, and I only did that because the thought of Kerry as leader of the free world make my bowel-movements all liquidy. So take that as you will.

Secondly, I'll have to do some more looking up on just how much of a bond there was between Bush and Revs. Falwell and Robertson. Having powerful right-wing talking heads over to deliver speeches is a far cry from, "This man is like an uncle to me, I think I'll listen to his sermons every week for the next 20 years".


Since Obama said he has always been a Christian I can only assume that Wright is as well. But I doubt that Wright has preached opening your arms to rich white people any more than Falwell preached opening your arms to gays.

Yeah - well I never much liked Falwell either.


I didn't dance on his grave like our compassionate liberal friends, but I didn't shed any tears either.

What time you want to meet at the lake........:howdy:




Alright you two, get a room.

You don't need to make dates out in public.

Say you're watching a video of a Klan meeting.

The Grand Wizard is up there talking, making an elaborate hate filled speech to the cheering mass surrounding him.

Now.... Who in the video do you have a problem with - the Grand Wizard, or every single mother ####er wearing a sheet?

Just curious.

I can do you one better! I've told this before, but I guess it bears repeating. When I was in the Navy here in Jacksonville back in the early 1980's, I was stopped at a traffic light next to Orange Park Mall. I saw some black kids coming down the lines of traffic with buckets, and they were collecting money for some cause, the UNCF I think. Then I looked at the other side of the road, and here's all these Klansman in their robes walking along traffic collecting money for the KKK! Being a kid from Pittsburgh, and having never been in a blooming race riot before, I just about freaked and considered slamming into whatever cars I needed to to get out of that warzone before the shooting started. The black kids were all wearing signs that said support the UNCF or whatever, and the KKK all had signs, and a bullhorn, calling for support for the Klan. I was sure I was going to get shot at any minute. Where were the cops? Where was the National Guard?

Then I got to the intersection itself, and on one corner there was an umbrella table with a couple of cops sitting there, and a big water jug. And guess who's standing next to the water jug, getting drinks and chatting? Black kids and KKK members!!! They were just standing there taking a break from the day's efforts, talking and smiling!!! I realized that those Klan members had no more hatred for those black kids than I did, and that those black kids were no more worried about those klansmen than me as a white kid feared them. I also realized that it wasn't about white supremecy, it wasn't about black pride, it was about money. Both sides needed it, both sides wanted it, and both sides attacked the other to get it. But at the end of the day, they were just ordinary people who could get along just fine with one another.

So no... I don't have a knee-jerk reaction that everyone sitting in the audience shares all the views of the firebrand at the front.

See???

Do I see you were wrong? Yes, I do. :razz:

Say you're watching a video of a Klan meeting.


The Grand Wizard is up there talking, making an elaborate hate filled speech to the cheering mass surrounding him.



Now.... Who in the video do you have a problem with - the Grand Wizard, or every single mother ####er wearing a sheet?


Just curious.


If there's a video or some other evidence that Obama actively cheered and approved of the speeches in question, things would certainly be different.

Funny how the only videos that have miraculously sprung up are the controversial ones. Do you think this is all the guy ever said? Evey single Sunday...nothing but these types of remarks? Or do you think the majority of his sermons were a bit more of what we expect a preacher to speak about?

Of course, putting these speeches into the context of an entire career's worth of sermons would decrease the shock value...so we're not going to have any of that.


As I stated before, when something can be attributed directly to Obama....then I'm interested. Until then, it's nothing I'm concerned about.

So, he wasn't at the church EVERY Sunday, right? There's not much shock in that, who is? Let's say he's more religious than the average liberal, and went once a month. For twenty years. Quick math makes that 240 sermons. Now, if you heard 240 sermons, do you think you'd get a pretty good feel for who the pastor was?

You're making a declarative statement that his pastor has been saying these things for 20 years. Might I inquire that this declaration is based on? All I keep hearing are excerpts from the sermons he made during his final year as the pastor.

It would be something to care about if it was a video of Obama saying that.

Honestly...are you really so simple minded that your brain is actually thinking: "Oh my! If Obama's minister/friend is saying those things, then that means Obama certainly must feel the exact same!!!"

Really? It's just that simple???




There's a restaurant in your town the uses slave labor. You eat there every Sunday for 20 years. You know the cooks are slaves.

Are you culpable? After all, you aren't the slave owner, you're just a patron, right?

Ask yourself this: Did Obama know that the sermons were filled with this vitriole? Did he choose to continue attending the church for 20 years? Did he make Wright an adviser?

He made his bed. He can sleep in it.

You should be impressed. I can prove I'm a patriot. Can you? :popcorn:

:lol:

I don't need to prove my patriotism...especially to you.

If there's a video or some other evidence that Obama actively cheered and approved of the speeches in question, things would certainly be different..
Why? If I just put on a sheet and quietly stood by the door of the Klan meeting, would I be less racist than if I stood on the stage cheering?

Funny how the only videos that have miraculously sprung up are the controversial ones. Do you think this is all the guy ever said? Evey single Sunday...nothing but these types of remarks? Or do you think the majority of his sermons were a bit more of what we expect a preacher to speak about?

As I stated before, when something can be attributed directly to Obama....then I'm interested. Until then, it's nothing I'm concerned about

The church sell the tapes of the sermons.

You people defending Obama are just mind-blowing.

And I say again:

SEE, LARRY?????

If there's a video or some other evidence that Obama actively cheered and approved of the speeches in question, things would certainly be different.

Funny how the only videos that have miraculously sprung up are the controversial ones. Do you think this is all the guy ever said? Evey single Sunday...nothing but these types of remarks? Or do you think the majority of his sermons were a bit more of what we expect a preacher to speak about?

Of course, putting these speeches into the context of an entire career's worth of sermons would decrease the shock value...so we're not going to have any of that.


As I stated before, when something can be attributed directly to Obama....then I'm interested. Until then, it's nothing I'm concerned about.
If that were true, don't you think Obama would be pointing that out? If it were really a rare occurence, wouldn't he say so?

Did you hear what Obama said today? He said Wright is wrong. He wasn't wrong for twenty years, he just suddenly became wrong when the press took off with this story.

If there's a video or some other evidence that Obama actively cheered and approved of the speeches in question, things would certainly be different.

Funny how the only videos that have miraculously sprung up are the controversial ones. Do you think this is all the guy ever said? Evey single Sunday...nothing but these types of remarks? Or do you think the majority of his sermons were a bit more of what we expect a preacher to speak about?

Of course, putting these speeches into the context of an entire career's worth of sermons would decrease the shock value...so we're not going to have any of that.

As I stated before, when something can be attributed directly to Obama....then I'm interested. Until then, it's nothing I'm concerned about.

You're making a declarative statement that his pastor has been saying these things for 20 years. Might I inquire that this declaration is based on? All I keep hearing are excerpts from the sermons he made during his final year as the pastor.
Oh come on!!! :faint: You mean only in the last year this douchebag started his anti-American rhetoric? Their website just suddenly became anti-American? :faint:

Say that out loud several times please.

You're making a declarative statement that his pastor has been saying these things for 20 years. Might I inquire that this declaration is based on? All I keep hearing are excerpts from the sermons he made during his final year as the pastor.The fact that no one said these were unusual for him - a change in his rhetoric, a new direction, ANYTHING that implied it was unusual. That would be a valid argument for Barry; "Hey, I've been campaigning for a while, so I haven't heard him speak for months. I never previously heard ANYTHING like this from this guy. We're gonna get him some counselling!" No, no one's implied it's unusual for him at all. In fact, they've defended that this is the usual rhetoric of MANY churches instead.

You people defending Obama are just mind-blowing.

And I say again:

SEE, LARRY?????


I didnt like him from the get go, could see he was full of crap.:wench: Go Clinton.

If there's a video or some other evidence that Obama actively cheered and approved of the speeches in question, things would certainly be different.

Funny how the only videos that have miraculously sprung up are the controversial ones. Do you think this is all the guy ever said? Evey single Sunday...nothing but these types of remarks? Or do you think the majority of his sermons were a bit more of what we expect a preacher to speak about?

Of course, putting these speeches into the context of an entire career's worth of sermons would decrease the shock value...so we're not going to have any of that.


As I stated before, when something can be attributed directly to Obama....then I'm interested. Until then, it's nothing I'm concerned about.

You won me over. since Wright only said God Damn America! and the white man created AIDS and crack to keep the black man down a few times I gues he is not that bad.

Secondly, I'll have to do some more looking up on just how much of a bond there was between Bush and Revs. Falwell and Robertson. Having powerful right-wing talking heads over to deliver speeches is a far cry from, "This man is like an uncle to me, I think I'll listen to his sermons every week for the next 20 years."

If you've got some time to waste, don't stop with Bush. Bush Sr., Reagan, Ford, etc., all had the same relationships with these guys. Granted, they didn't give them an office and staff at the White House, but they didn't get treated the way Jesie Jackson or Martin Luther King were treated either.

As to your 20 years comment, I'll ask you what I have asked others: on what are you basing your knowledge that Wright has been saying these things for 20 years, when all we have heard are excerpts from speeches over the past year? What do you know that we don't?

What time you want to meet at the lake........:howdy:

What the hell are you talking about?

What the hell are you talking about?

Go fishing.


:shrug:

So no... I don't have a knee-jerk reaction that everyone sitting in the audience shares all the views of the firebrand at the front.

I don't see how this negates my analogy, which is what I assume it was meant to do. And I would ordinarily agree with your assessment, if it weren't for all the other stuff.

All that I've read thus far leads me to the conclusion that the relationship between Obama and Wright was not casual, and was not intermittent. He wasn't showing up to this Church, for instance, just so that he could be seen at Church. He didn't just wander in one week a few months ago, and only just discovered what Wright is about. This was a strong living breathing relationship that has roots that go WAY back.

There is NO ####ING WAY that Obama couldn't know what this man was about, and there is NO ####ING way that anyone would maintain a relationship with a Church they don't agree with .. for decades.

Any attempts to make us believe otherwise are just pathetic and insulting.

The fact that no one said these were unusual for him - a change in his rhetoric, a new direction, ANYTHING that implied it was unusual. That would be a valid argument for Barry; "Hey, I've been campaigning for a while, so I haven't heard him speak for months. I never previously heard ANYTHING like this from this guy. We're gonna get him some counselling!" No, no one's implied it's unusual for him at all. In fact, they've defended that this is the usual rhetoric of MANY churches instead.

And who are these "no ones" you refer to? I watch Hannity & Colmes just about every night, and this has been the number one issue for a while now, and I have heard many commentators, black officials, and black ministers interviewed, but I haven't heard them interview anyone who's was actually a member of the church in question for 20 years.

All I'm hearing is a lot of speculation, opinion, and views, and little in the way of facts.

Busy day here at work but I've read the comments here and listened to the enlightened ones this morning on the radio, T-Bone and Heather... I come away from this shaking my head and wondering if this country will ever get past this "race thing."

I've got to prepare for a meeting this afternoon but I wish you folks would read Mr. Obama's response carefully (I've posted the link) and then rather than react so vociferously, ask yourself whether you can find it in your hearts to try and understand what lead Rev. Wright to make his comments and then try to understand what has inspired Mr. Obama to make his run for the Presidency. I think if you looked long enough and deep enough inward you might find that the same sense of patriotism that you feel, is held just as strongly, and despite the historical inequities of America, by Rev. Wright and Mr. Obama. Each has responded differently to the "stimulus" of their experiences.

Gotta run but I'll leave you with this..one of my favorite books is To Kill A Mockingbird. In it, the protagonist, Atticus Finch, advises his children that ....You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view;until you climb into his skin and walk around in
it...

All things are not as they might seem and all things are not Black and White.

What the hell are you talking about?

He's been hitting on all the women, but he has zero success. Now he's moved on to trying to get some from the men.

Here's the thing Kerad. You don't equate a pimple on my taint. In fact, because they are on my taint, they're much better than you.

Knowing that you're the opposite of me is perfectly fine. I love my country and despise anyone who doesn't. I'd die defending her, even if it means protecting cowards like you.

You have a taint? With pimples? Who knew?

And who are these "no ones" you refer to? I watch Hannity & Colmes just about every night, and this has been the number one issue for a while now, and I have heard many commentators, black officials, and black ministers interviewed, but I haven't heard them interview anyone who's was actually a member of the church in question for 20 years.

All I'm hearing is a lot of speculation, opinion, and views, and little in the way of facts.
Listen to Obama. He says Wright is wrong. If Obama says it, why can't you believe it?

He's been hitting on all the women, but he has zero success. Now he's moved on to trying to get some from the men.

:buttkick:

:lol:

And who are these "no ones" you refer to? I watch Hannity & Colmes just about every night, and this has been the number one issue for a while now, and I have heard many commentators, black officials, and black ministers interviewed, but I haven't heard them interview anyone who's was actually a member of the church in question for 20 years.

All I'm hearing is a lot of speculation, opinion, and views, and little in the way of facts.Specifically, I'm referring to three people - Barry Obama, Michelle Obama, and Joe Congregant. I've yet to hear Joe Congregant say "wow this is unusual". If he were out there to say that, don't you think they'd play it?

I have heard members of the church interviewed. They say this is not only normal for Wright, but for many churches with predominantly black congregations. The "no one" to whom I refer is them.

As to your 20 years comment, I'll ask you what I have asked others: on what are you basing your knowledge that Wright has been saying these things for 20 years, when all we have heard are excerpts from speeches over the past year? What do you know that we don't?


:rolleyes:


Maybe he just snapped last year. Until then he was the epitome of tolerance and good-will toward all men.








Yeah - that's the ticket.

Listen to Obama. He says Wright is wrong. If Obama says it, why can't you believe it?

Cuse he s full of Shy*

If that were true, don't you think Obama would be pointing that out? If it were really a rare occurence, wouldn't he say so?

Did you hear what Obama said today? He said Wright is wrong. He wasn't wrong for twenty years, he just suddenly became wrong when the press took off with this story.

I did not hear Obama's speech today, so I can't comment on it. However I have heard Obama comment that the subject of many of the sermon's he attended were not of the kind we're discussing here. He's said it many times.

And he's publicly rejected the controversial speeches of Wright's already, as well.

You should be impressed. I can prove I'm a patriot. Can you? :popcorn:

No :sarcasm: intended but what does that mean I can prove I'm a patriot?

No :sarcasm: intended but what does that mean I can prove I'm a patriot?

He's a Marine.

:patriot:

Listen to Obama. He says Wright is wrong. If Obama says it, why can't you believe it?


:yeahthat:

Politicians have always been known for their honesty and candor.

And who are these "no ones" you refer to? I watch Hannity & Colmes just about every night, and this has been the number one issue for a while now, and I have heard many commentators, black officials, and black ministers interviewed, but I haven't heard them interview anyone who's was actually a member of the church in question for 20 years.

All I'm hearing is a lot of speculation, opinion, and views, and little in the way of facts.

Uh didn't they interview Wright himself in April last year and all he could say was "you don't and can't understand because you aint black". Wright never backed off, never said Obama called him and disagreed or ever voiced disagreement.

However I have heard Obama comment that the subject of many of the sermon's he attended were not of the kind we're discussing here. He's said it many times.

And he's publicly rejected the controversial speeches of Wright's already, as well.Please refer to post 47 (http://forums.somd.com/2795462-post47.html)

It's statistically VERY unlikely he did not understand and agree with these sentiments. Maybe he wasn't there for those many particular sermons, but, come on!

You won me over. since Wright only said God Damn America! and the white man created AIDS and crack to keep the black man down a few times I gues he is not that bad.

Though it's a bit confusing for some at the moment, Wright's not on the ballot for President. But you can certainly write him in if you want.

I did not hear Obama's speech today, so I can't comment on it. However I have heard Obama comment that the subject of many of the sermon's he attended were not of the kind we're discussing here. He's said it many times.

And he's publicly rejected the controversial speeches of Wright's already, as well.

Doesn't that imply that, while 'many' were not, some were?

He's a Marine.

:patriot:

Smooth?:shocked:

Smooth?:shocked:

Nope......

You people defending Obama are just mind-blowing.

And I say again:

SEE, LARRY?????

See... there's where you're completely off base Vrai. I am not defending Obama. I am defending the conservative and Republican ideals I hold dear. Obama can rot in Hell of all I care, I just don't think defeating him is worth selling out the soul of the party (to use religious terms).

Though it's a bit confusing for some at the moment, Wright's not on the ballot for President. But you can certainly write him in if you want.If McCain paid tens of thousands of dollars to David Duke to advise him, would that be relevant to McCain's candidacy?

Of course it would. Who a person chooses to spend decades with advising them, including in their current candidate status, says something about their character.

Gotta run but I'll leave you with this..one of my favorite books is To Kill A Mockingbird. In it, the protagonist, Atticus Finch, advises his children that ....You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view;until you climb into his skin and walk around in
it...

Oh horsecrap. Wright was race baiting, pure and simple. Instead of applauding the achievements and opportunities for blacks in the today, he wants to rail about the bad ol' days of 40-50 years ago.

I ask you, Nupe - if this were a white pastor and a white candidate, would you be so willing to give him a pass and "understand"?

See... there's where you're completely off base Vrai. I am not defending Obama. I am defending the conservative and Republican ideals I hold dear. Obama can rot in Hell of all I care, I just don't think defeating him is worth selling out the soul of the party (to use religious terms).




Oh.




In that case, I'll stop arguing with you. Both parties can collapse under their own weight and die horribly for all I care.

Uh didn't they interview Wright himself in April last year and all he could say was "you don't and can't understand because you aint black". Wright never backed off, never said Obama called him and disagreed or ever voiced disagreement.

Lord... why can't people ever provide a straight answer to a straight question? I ask thee as a humble agnostic... illuminate me with an answer.

How does him saying ""you don't and can't understand because you aint black" equate to he's been preaching this stuff for the 20 years that Obama has been in his church. So... one more time... where is the evidence that Wright has been saying these awful, repugnant, things for the past 20 years???

Lord... why can't people ever provide a straight answer to a straight question? I ask thee as a humble agnostic... illuminate me with an answer.

How does him saying ""you don't and can't understand because you aint black" equate to he's been preaching this stuff for the 20 years that Obama has been in his church. So... one more time... where is the evidence that Wright has been saying these awful, repugnant, things for the past 20 years???I've provided the implicit proof repeatedly. :shrug:

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: He spoke the truth, continues to speak the truth, and people can label that as "radical," but I think it's insightful.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: No, I wouldn't call it "radical," I'd call it being black in America. It's not radical. How radical is that? (http://mediamatters.org/items/200803130008?f=s_search)

If McCain paid tens of thousands of dollars to David Duke to advise him, would that be relevant to McCain's candidacy?

Of course it would. Who a person chooses to spend decades with advising them, including in their current candidate status, says something about their character.

So you want to take a big step down and equate paid political advisers with the head of your church???

Lord... why can't people ever provide a straight answer to a straight question? I ask thee as a humble agnostic... illuminate me with an answer.

How does him saying ""you don't and can't understand because you aint black" equate to he's been preaching this stuff for the 20 years that Obama has been in his church. So... one more time... where is the evidence that Wright has been saying these awful, repugnant, things for the past 20 years???


Oxy-------MORON.

So you want to take a big step down and equate paid political advisers with the head of your church???
Wright was a political advisor to Barry's campaign.

I've provided the implicit proof repeatedly. :shrug:

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: He spoke the truth, continues to speak the truth, and people can label that as "radical," but I think it's insightful.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: No, I wouldn't call it "radical," I'd call it being black in America. It's not radical. How radical is that? (http://mediamatters.org/items/200803130008?f=s_search)

:yeahthat:

:lol:I don't need to prove my patriotism...especially to you.Yes you do. Or because you have none? :smack:




You have a taint? With pimples? Who knew?Who typed this for you to cut and paste?

Oh horsecrap. Wright was race baiting, pure and simple. Instead of applauding the achievements and opportunities for blacks in the today, he wants to rail about the bad ol' days of 40-50 years ago.

I ask you, Nupe - if this were a white pastor and a white candidate, would you be so willing to give him a pass and "understand"?

To be truthful, I might. I have this issue about the freedom of speech (e.g., Imus). Having said that, I think that exercising that freedom may bring about both intended and unintended consequences. I'll have to think about your question a little more though...(y'all gonna git me fired!). I'll be back...

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: No, I wouldn't call it "radical," I'd call it being black in America. It's not radical. How radical is that?

Here we go with that again. "Black in America" Because all black people are the same, with the same values, goals and skills. Just a bunch of Katrina victims.

:rolleyes:

Lord... why can't people ever provide a straight answer to a straight question? I ask thee as a humble agnostic... illuminate me with an answer.

How does him saying ""you don't and can't understand because you aint black" equate to he's been preaching this stuff for the 20 years that Obama has been in his church. So... one more time... where is the evidence that Wright has been saying these awful, repugnant, things for the past 20 years???

Lord why are you being such an a-hole? Since you are on your sanctimonious high horse I will go ahead and be your biatch and google it for you.


The comments about 9/11 happened right after 9/11.

In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism.

"We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.



"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon.




You asked if they interviewed any member of his church, I said they interviewed HIM a year ago, it was 2 March 2007. So instead of taking an indignant tone with me for daring to disagree with you you might want to put on some chap stick and KMA.

To be truthful, I might. I have this issue about the freedom of speech (e.g., Imus). Having said that, I think that exercising that freedom may bring about both intended and unintended consequences. I'll have to think about your question a little more though...(y'all gonna git me fired!). I'll be back...Hey we can read the "help wanted" ads together (from the back 9) :high5: :lol:

Hey we can read the "help wanted" ads together (from the back 9) :high5: :lol:

:yeahthat: Dammit! Stop!!! :killingme

Lord why are you being such an a-hole? Since you are on your sanctimonious high horse I will go ahead and be your biatch and google it for you.


The comments about 9/11 happened right after 9/11.










You asked if they interviewed any member of his church, I said they interviewed HIM a year ago, it was 2 March 2007. So instead of taking an indignant tone with me for daring to disagree with you you might want to put on some chap stick and KMA.



Bring him down :larry:

I've provided the implicit proof repeatedly. :shrug:

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: He spoke the truth, continues to speak the truth, and people can label that as "radical," but I think it's insightful.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: No, I wouldn't call it "radical," I'd call it being black in America. It's not radical. How radical is that? (http://mediamatters.org/items/200803130008?f=s_search)

Again... where's the proof to support the allegation that he's been saying this stuff for 20 years??? How damn hard is it to answer this question... after all, we have three people on this forum all sounding like they're certain of it!

All Ross's report said was that in 2001, following a momentous attack on the United States, that Wright said essentially the same thing as Falwell, Robertson, and who knows who else was saying... that it was our fault. Great, wonderful, but what the heck does that prove? That's he's a card-carrying member of the Hate America club? The one that has membership in the millions on the Left? So what?

And while I can't believe we're supposed to suddenly put our faith behind quotes attributed to Unidentified Woman 1 and 2, and putting aside the fact that neither of these pieces of what you call "Implicit proof" bother to say something along the lines of "He spoke the truth, has said these things for 20 years, continues to speak the truth, and people can label that as "radical," but I think it's insightful", I go back to my original point, that being that Wright's quoted statements are every bit as disgusting and reprehensible to folks on the right, as those of many right-wing religious type's comments are to folks on the Left. But when our folks insult the Left, we tell the left they should ignore those remarks and focus on what the candidate says. And now we're behaving just like the Democrats!

To be truthful, I might. I have this issue about the freedom of speech (e.g., Imus). Having said that, I think that exercising that freedom may bring about both intended and unintended consequences. I'll have to think about your question a little more though...(y'all gonna git me fired!). I'll be back...

I am tickled pink when people exercise their freedom of speech. That way I know exactly what they're thinking and where they're coming from, and don't operate under a misconception.

The problem with exercising your free speech is that there are consequences, in that some people will not agree with you. Some may even be offended. and they will exercise *their* rights in return.

Rev. Wright exercised his free speech. Barack Obama exercised his free association. Now they will suffer the consequences. It's that simple.

See ya when ya get back!

And now we're behaving just like the Democrats!

Actually if we were behaving just like Democrats, we'd dig around for a 25 year old DWI and forge documents maligning the opponent. :smile:

Oh horsecrap. Wright was race baiting, pure and simple. Instead of applauding the achievements and opportunities for blacks in the today, he wants to rail about the bad ol' days of 40-50 years ago.

Yes!!! Praise the Lord!!! She gets it!!! Of course he was race baiting! I'll bet he walked down from that pulpit where he was denouncing rich whites and went to a meeting with them the very next day! I doubt he believes the drivel that he was saying anymore than Swaggart really believed he saw a 50-foot Jesus. The simple fact is that churches rely on donations, and telling blacks that they have good lives and great opportunities doesn't bring in the donations that saying they are all victims and need to be fought for does.

So, gee, if you're smart enough to see through his devious plan, what's the odds that someone who graduated MCL from Harvard could too? :howdy:

Doesn't that imply that, while 'many' were not, some were?

I honestly don't personally know if Obama was in attendance when the Rev. Wright went off on one of his rants. But being there when it happened doesn't mean he approved of it.

Unless it was advertised on the sign out front.

Sunday's schedule of events:

8 am: Choir practice.
9 am: Rev. Wright rails against the U.S.A. and Whitey in general.
11 am: Sunday brunch.

But when our folks insult the Left, we tell the left they should ignore those remarks and focus on what the candidate says. And now we're behaving just like the Democrats!

No, we say that the candidate doesn't support the looney. So, I guess the Democrats should say that the candidate doesn't support...um, well, I guess they can't say that.

Actually if we were behaving just like Democrats, we'd dig around for a 25 year old DWI and forge documents maligning the opponent. :smile:

Well, to be honest with you, I never thought I would see the day when folks on the Right would take allegations from the Clinton campaign at face value, or attack a man for the statements of his church leader, but here we are.

So, I wonder how long it will be before some Republican operative comes out with a schoolmate of Obama who once saw him with a joint and saying Arabs or cool, or some forged documents appear. We're already halfway down the slippery slope to being just like the people we hate.

I honestly don't personally know if Obama was in attendance when the Rev. Wright went off on one of his rants. But being there when it happened doesn't mean he approved of it.

Unless it was advertised on the sign out front.

Sunday's schedule of events:

8 am: Choir practice.
9 am: Rev. Wright rails against the U.S.A. and Whitey in general.
11 am: Sunday brunch.

Supporting someone for 20 years as a close personal friend, "like an uncle", who performed your wedding and baptized your children is "approval"

No, we say that the candidate doesn't support the looney. So, I guess the Democrats should say that the candidate doesn't support...um, well, I guess they can't say that.

It might help you to place things in context by realizing that most folks on the Left look at religious fundamentalists and other bible thumpers as being just as loony as we view Wright.

Yes you do. Or because you have none? :smack:


Wrong...on both counts.


As usual.

attack a man for the statements of his church leader, but here we are.

That's cute the way you tried to downplay the relationship, but Obama himself has said that Wright was his spiritual adviser, mentor, and like family. Not merely a church leader.

:smile:

It might help you to place things in context by realizing that most folks on the Left look at religious fundamentalists and other bible thumpers as being just as loony as we view Wright.

So what? The Left also thinks that we should all put our money into a big pot and divvy it up. They think we shouldn't have private ownership of guns and that Islamic terrorists are merely misunderstood.

What's your point?

Yes!!! Praise the Lord!!! She gets it!!! Of course he was race baiting! I'll bet he walked down from that pulpit where he was denouncing rich whites and went to a meeting with them the very next day! I doubt he believes the drivel that he was saying anymore than Swaggart really believed he saw a 50-foot Jesus. The simple fact is that churches rely on donations, and telling blacks that they have good lives and great opportunities doesn't bring in the donations that saying they are all victims and need to be fought for does.

So, gee, if you're smart enough to see through his devious plan, what's the odds that someone who graduated MCL from Harvard could too? :howdy:

You don't mind God being on your weekly paycheck, do you ?

:eyebrow:

It might help you to place things in context by realizing that most folks on the Left look at religious fundamentalists and other bible thumpers as being just as loony as we view Wright.

I know that. :shrug:

I honestly don't personally know if Obama was in attendance when the Rev. Wright went off on one of his rants. But being there when it happened doesn't mean he approved of it.

Unless it was advertised on the sign out front.

Sunday's schedule of events:

8 am: Choir practice.
9 am: Rev. Wright rails against the U.S.A. and Whitey in general.
11 am: Sunday brunch.

He was in Miami on the Whitey in general speech.

That's cute the way you tried to downplay the relationship, but Obama himself has said that Wright was his spiritual adviser, mentor, and like family. Not merely a church leader.

:smile:

Vrai, you're trying to make a point by splitting hairs, and it really is beneath you to do so. I haven't spent a lot of time in church, but when I did I was taught to look to my reverend as a close friend and mentor. He often had dinner at our house, just like family. My wife's pastor frequently came to family events at my in-law's house and we often went to church socials with the ever-present "family-like" atmosphere.

Maybe you belong to a church where you don't have close social interaction with the head of it, but that's the exception to the rule.

You don't mind God being on your weekly paycheck, do you ?

:eyebrow:

There is no God on my debit card. :wench:

There is no God on my debit card. :wench:

:rolleyes:

Supporting someone for 20 years as a close personal friend, "like an uncle", who performed your wedding and baptized your children is "approval"

So, in order for you to be friends...or "family" with someone...then that means you are required to agree with every thought and belief of theirs.

Huh...who knew???


I better call my parents and tell them I can't be their son anymore...as I disagree with some of their beliefs.

:frown:




This line of thinking is so completely ridiculous. I can't believe I'm dumbing myself down to this level. :banghead:

So what? The Left also thinks that we should all put our money into a big pot and divvy it up. They think we shouldn't have private ownership of guns and that Islamic terrorists are merely misunderstood.

What's your point?

:hangs his head low and shakes it in wonderment:

So we've gone from saying "Goddamn America" to gun control? How far off the track are you willing to go to? The Left thinks everyone on the Right should be locked up as loons, and the Right thinks that everyone on the Left should be locked up as loons. I get it... I really do. Neither side believes the other side is right... I get that too.

But again, to my initial point, there was a time when the Right used to criticize the Left for painting our candidates with the same brush as our religious leaders, and we said that the actions of the Democrats were wrong. Now we are doing the exact same thing ourselves, and trying to convince ourselves that it's somehow okay when we do it. That's what I don't get.

He was in Miami on the Whitey in general speech.

Oh.

Ummm...

Well, I'm sure he wishes he was there hating the US with the rest of 'em!!!!


So there!

Oh.

Ummm...

Well, I'm sure he wishes he was there hating the US with the rest of 'em!!!!


So there!

Even Fred Phelps followers miss a sermon or two. :yay:

So, in order for you to be friends...or "family" with someone...then that means you are required to agree with every thought and belief of theirs.

Huh...who knew???


I better call my parents and tell them I can't be their son anymore...as I disagree with some of their beliefs.

:frown:




This line of thinking is so completely ridiculous. I can't believe I'm dumbing myself down to this level. :banghead:


...realize you were running for president and promising to be a unite-er-rer, not a divider!

Now, at what point do you think you recognized that your parents had ideas that...differed...from your own beliefs? Did you move out at that point in protest? :buddies:

Even Fred Phelps followers miss a sermon or two. :yay:

...they don't. Neither one of them has. Ever.

Even Fred Phelps followers miss a sermon or two. :yay:


How would you know that? :eyebrow:

How would you know that? :eyebrow:

I read it on the internet

HELLO! I PROVIDED PROOF HE HAD BEEN DOING IT AT LEAST 7 YEARS






Lord why are you being such an a-hole? Since you are on your sanctimonious high horse I will go ahead and be your biatch and google it for you.


The comments about 9/11 happened right after 9/11.

In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism.

"We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.



"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon.




You asked if they interviewed any member of his church, I said they interviewed HIM a year ago, it was 2 March 2007. So instead of taking an indignant tone with me for daring to disagree with you you might want to put on some chap stick and KMA.





http://forums.somd.com/2795702-post100.html

That's what I don't get.

Let me explain it to you then.

I, as a registered Republican, got painted with that religious zealot brush. Of course, anyone who knows me or has seen my posts knows that is laughable. I didn't go to anyone's church, didn't give them money, didn't do any of that. Yet I was labeled as an "evangelical" by the MSM and liberal nutties on here. (Not me, personally, of course, but all Republicans and not just candidates.)

So that's point #1: you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Tough ####.

The next, and most important, point is that I was completely unaware that George Bush or Ronald Reagan or John McCain attended Fallwell's or Robertson's churches. The most I ever heard was that they would give them an audience, similar to how Democrats kiss the ring of Sharpton to get his endorsement and win voters. By simply being politically friendly to the Fallwells and Bob Joneses of the world, Republican candidates get excoriated. Yet the Democrat candidate actually calls a flamethrower his "mentor" and "family" and "spiritual advisor", and we're supposed to forget about it?? Were George and Laura Bush married and had their children baptized by some KKK preacher and nobody bothered to report it?

And that would be point #2: you reap what you sow.

Last, but not least, I have no real problem giving back to the Democrats. You can play nicey nice all you want, but I'm not doing it. They've been getting away with this crap for as long as I can remember, and I'm not inclined to be forgiving and give them the benefit of the doubt.

Once more, the question nobody seems to want to answer:

If this were a white Republican candidate and a white minister, what do you think would happen?

...realize you were running for president and promising to be a unite-er-rer, not a divider!

Now, at what point do you think you recognized that your parents had ideas that...differed...from your own beliefs? Did you move out at that point in protest? :buddies:


Well...according to the laws of Right-Wind World, I should have.

Because if you don't agree with every belief of somebody, you should cut all ties to that person. Failure to do so illustrates that you do indeed agree with everything that person believes.

Even if you don't.



Thankfully I don't live in Right-Wing World. :yahoo:

Well...according to the laws of Right-Wind World, I should have.

Because if you don't agree with every belief of somebody, you should cut all ties to that person. Failure to do so illustrates that you do indeed agree with everything that person believes.

Even if you don't.



Thankfully I don't live in Right-Wing World. :yahoo:

...that. You live in Right Wind World.

Now, Senator, would you mind answering the questions?

I read it on the internet

Okay, then.

Once more, the question nobody seems to want to answer:

If this were a white Republican candidate and a white minister, what do you think would happen?

The apocalypse

Well...according to the laws of Right-Wind World, I should have.

Because if you don't agree with every belief of somebody, you should cut all ties to that person. Failure to do so illustrates that you do indeed agree with everything that person believes.

Even if you don't.



Thankfully I don't live in Right-Wing World. :yahoo:

Lets be reasonable and say you don't have to cut all ties, but you don't have to name them your mentor.

So, in order for you to be friends...or "family" with someone...then that means you are required to agree with every thought and belief of theirs.:frown:
This line of thinking is so completely ridiculous. I can't believe I'm dumbing myself down to this level. :banghead:

Would you publicly declared Rush Limbaugh to be you mentor, friend and advisor even though you disagree on a few minor points?

One of the reasons we get the corrupt durhard elected officials we do is because exposing their sketchy side is "negative campaigning" and supposedly a bad thing to do (unless the Democrats do it, then it's simply "telling the truth").

I, personally, want to know everything I can about any presidential candidate. I want to know if they stole milk money in grade school. I want to know if they cheated on their finals in college. If they're faithful to their wife and treat their parents with respect. I want to know their voting record, their military record and their shot record.

If none of this had come out and Barack Obama had become president, with his Afro-centric views and racist buddies, we'd be wishing we knew these things about him before he was elected. So now we know, and I think that's a good thing.

The apocalypse

...he might win dog catcher, might not. He sure as hell wouldn't be running for potus.

...he might win dog catcher, might not. He sure as hell wouldn't be running for potus.

Oh please. Not only would he not be running for president, but the Democrats would be screaming to high heaven about ALL Republicans being racist. This would become a huge topic on the news and white Republican politicians would be trotting their asses on BET in front of a smirking Tavis Smiley, trying to prove that they're not a bunch of Klan members. Said Republican would be thrown under the bus so fast he wouldn't know what hit him, and the Democrats would pick up a few more House and Senate seats.

The ONLY reason Obama is getting away with this is because he's a black Democrat. That's the truth and feel free to quote me. If it were Alan Keyes, he'd be absolutely ripped to shreds. If it were any white Republican politician, they'd be finished.

Lets be reasonable and say you don't have to cut all ties, but you don't have to name them your mentor.

But what if they were a mentor? Once again, having someone be a mentor in some aspects of your life doesn't mean they're a mentor in all aspects of your life.


There's only so many ways to get that point across.

Again... where's the proof to support the allegation that he's been saying this stuff for 20 years??? How damn hard is it to answer this question... after all, we have three people on this forum all sounding like they're certain of it!Well, you've been shown at least seven years, and you've acknowledged that no one has come forth to claim anything different for the preceding 13 years, and the people of his church proclaim this to just be the norm.......


What part are you missing?

Oh please. Not only would he not be running for president, but the Democrats would be screaming to high heaven about ALL Republicans being racist. This would become a huge topic on the news and white Republican politicians would be trotting their asses on BET in front of a smirking Tavis Smiley, trying to prove that they're not a bunch of Klan members. Said Republican would be thrown under the bus so fast he wouldn't know what hit him, and the Democrats would pick up a few more House and Senate seats.

...again, maybe the worm has turned. Obama has looked like just another two face pol with his weak pronouncements of having no idea of what his pastor believes in. On top of that, many 'progressives' are livid with the Clinton attack machine. Again, I say to you Mor-ton, enjoy the show. We've not seen this type of karma comeuppance in our lifetime. Perhaps shutting down SOMD karma allowed enough good karma to build up, unused, and blow up in Howard Deans face in the reddest of red?

You really ought to be enjoying this more.

There's only so many ways to get that point across.

The point is at the top of your head. You're selling, but I'm not buying.

But what if they were a mentor? Once again, having someone be a mentor in some aspects of your life doesn't mean they're a mentor in all aspects of your life.


There's only so many ways to get that point across.Would you choose to donate tens of thousands of dollars and place someone in your inner advisory circle when running as the first bi-racial candidate for president if you did NOT agree with the bulk of what they say?

Would you publicly declared Rush Limbaugh to be you mentor, friend and advisor even though you disagree on a few minor points?

What the....?!?!?!

You really ought to be enjoying this more.

It would be like enjoying watching a recidivist criminal.

It's not going to change anything and it's annoying to watch people defend this crap and try to pretend it doesn't matter or that Obama is being attacked for his religion.

If Democrats had some sense of decorum or decency, it would be different. But we've already established that they want the win at any cost, and there is no shame in them.

Well, it's good to know Barry O'Bama's white and jew hating supporters haven't deserted him. The New Black Panther Party (http://my.barackobama.com/page/dashboard/public/gGrXCt) is still firmly on his side in spite of his attempt to "distance" himself from his racist mentor and the hand-clappin' hollerin' congragation from hell.

Well, it's good to know Barry O'Bama's white and jew hating supporters haven't deserted him. The New Black Panther Party (http://my.barackobama.com/page/dashboard/public/gGrXCt) is still firmly on his side in spite of his attempt to "distance" himself from his racist mentor and the hand-clappin' hollerin' congragation from hell.

Well, THAT will surely help his public image.

Would you choose to donate tens of thousands of dollars and place someone in your inner advisory circle when running as the first bi-racial candidate for president if you did NOT agree with the bulk of what they say?

Not if he didn't agree with me on the bulk of the issues that I felt were relevant...no.

I also wouldn't go to church...so I would never consider a reverend as a mentor.

Not if he didn't agree with me on the bulk of the issues that I felt were relevant...no.

I also wouldn't go to church...so I would never consider a reverend as a mentor.

So in other words you don't know what the hell you're talking about?

It would be like enjoying watching a recidivist criminal.

It's not going to change anything and it's annoying to watch people defend this crap and try to pretend it doesn't matter or that Obama is being attacked for his religion.

If Democrats had some sense of decorum or decency, it would be different. But we've already established that they want the win at any cost, and there is no shame in them.

...you can look on the non bright side all you want. I'm watching a party screaming and yelling at someone only to constantly realize they're yelling at a mirror. And then, after a few moments, right back at it with dolts like Wolf Blitzer steady polishing that turd. They've never done this so publicly. We've sure never got to see it.

But what if they were a mentor? Once again, having someone be a mentor in some aspects of your life doesn't mean they're a mentor in all aspects of your life.


There's only so many ways to get that point across.

If you were sitting in your mentors house talking about how you would cure the ills of the world and he heard a rustling by the front door and he peeked out the window and said "Just the ###### mailman" would he still be your mentor or would you back away slowly?

They've never done this so publicly. We've sure never got to see it.

Where were you during the Clinton impeachment hearings?

So in other words you don't know what the hell you're talking about?

I know exactly what I'm talking about. If I've lost you at some point, you can go back to my original post in this thread (the one where I called you a bunch of whackjobs) and try to keep up.


(Or is this where you're going to try and twist everything I said around to confuse the issue?)

Not if he didn't agree with me on the bulk of the issues that I felt were relevant...no.

I also wouldn't go to church...so I would never consider a reverend as a mentor.Well, Barry claims to go to church. He claims to have been active in this church for 20 years. He claims to have sought the guidance of this individual for those 20 years. He's given tens of thousands of dollars, and a position within his campaign to this man.

As you say, if they didn't agree, why would he do that. We know what Wright thinks, so now we know what Barry really thinks when he's not begging for votes.

If you were sitting in your mentors house talking about how you would cure the ills of the world and he heard a rustling by the front door and he peeked out the window and said "Just the ###### mailman" would he still be your mentor or would you back away slowly?

I'd say "Hey...cut that crap out! Now, back to what we were talking about..."


Unless he was going to be my cultural diversity guy. :lol:

Where were you during the Clinton impeachment hearings?

...to Democrats parse words and blame it on Ken Starr and Newt Gingrich and Ronald Reagan, and Barry Goldwater and...


This brawl is ALL them.

I'd say "Hey...cut that crap out! Now, back to what we were talking about..."


Unless he was going to be my cultural diversity guy. :lol:

Good on you, I on the other hand have a tad more self respect. :yay:

I'd say "Hey...cut that crap out! Now, back to what we were talking about..."

Well, maybe you're just more used to that sort of thing. The people I surround myself with don't talk like that.

Well, Barry claims to go to church. He claims to have been active in this church for 20 years. He claims to have sought the guidance of this individual for those 20 years. He's given tens of thousands of dollars, and a position within his campaign to this man.

As you say, if they didn't agree, why would he do that. We know what Wright thinks, so now we know what Barry really thinks when he's not begging for votes.

Ahhh...you see. You're doing it. You're using single-level thinking.

:ohwell:

Ahhh...you see. You're doing it. You're using single-level thinking.

:ohwell:You provided it. You said that you'd place him on your campaign if he agreed with you. We know what he thinks, so (by the logic you provided) he must be agreeing with what Barry thinks. This is a wide range of comprehensive thinking, not some single statement. This is an overall attititude towards America, towards race, towards a host of things. Not just a single issue, or a single subject even. They must agree on the basic framework of thought - you provided that clause.

Good on you, I on the other hand have a tad more self respect. :yay:

Well, maybe you're just more used to that sort of thing. The people I surround myself with don't talk like that.

Oh goody! Here comes the self-righteousness.!! :clap:

:rolleyes:

Oh goody! Here comes the self-righteousness.!! :clap:

:rolleyes:

Only a libtard would be critical of people with morals. :killingme:

Here's to you :cheers:

Cry in your coffee, make long apologies for Wright and Obama, spend the rest of the summer trying to explain away, deflect, distract and excuse that which is not explainable. Obama has likely poisoned the well and will likely lose. If he doesn't he should because running a campaign about being a "Uniter" and speaking about "together" while sitting in the audience of someone who preaches "separate" and makes bombastic absurdities as his mentor is not someone I want as my president.

Obama running as a "Uniter" while listening to his separatist mentor is like Kerry running on his sterling military record............oh wait.

I wonder if Obama is being Wrightboated?

Oh goody! Here comes the self-righteousness.!!

You appear to be quite comfortable with racial slurs. I'm not. I fail to see what is so self-righteous about that.

Oh goody! Here comes the self-righteousness.!! :clap:

:rolleyes:

Kerad, you know I love you honey :love: :huggy: but please stop. :huggy:

And, once more with feeling:

SEE?????

Kerad, do Democrats ever do anything that you don't wholeheartedly approve of?

You provided it. You said that you'd place him on your campaign if he agreed with you. We know what he thinks, so (by the logic you provided) he must be agreeing with what Barry thinks. This is a wide range of comprehensive thinking, not some single statement. This is an overall attititude towards America, towards race, towards a host of things. Not just a single issue, or a single subject even. They must agree on the basic framework of thought - you provided that clause.

:twitch:

Okay...I can clearly see we're in the "talking in circles" stage of this thread. Which is when I lose any interest.

THIS is what I said:
Once again, having someone be a mentor in some aspects of your life doesn't mean they're a mentor in all aspects of your life.


Which is a variant of what I've been saying all over this thread. You don't have to agree with EVERYTHING somebody thinks to have them as an advisor, family member, friend, reverend or mentor.


There's another level of thinking required for you to comprehend this. If you're unwilling to think two or three levels deep, you're not going to get it.

Kerad, you know I love you honey :love: :huggy: but please stop. :huggy:

Awww...thanks! :huggy:

:twitch:

Okay...I can clearly see we're in the "talking in circles" stage of this thread. Which is when I lose any interest.

THIS is what I said:


Which is a variant of what I've been saying all over this thread. You don't have to agree with EVERYTHING somebody thinks to have them as an advisor, family member, friend, reverend or mentor.


There's another level of thinking required for you to comprehend this. If you're unwilling to think two or three levels deep, you're not going to get it.

I like chocolate, you might like vanilla. I like Harley you might like Honda THOSE are reasonable differences of opinion. If someone I knew said "whitey created crack and AIDS to keep the black man dead or in prison" _OR_ "you gotta watch those darkies they will steal and rape because it's in their nature" they would not be my mentor.

:twitch:

Okay...I can clearly see we're in the "talking in circles" stage of this thread. Which is when I lose any interest.

THIS is what I said:


Which is a variant of what I've been saying all over this thread. You don't have to agree with EVERYTHING somebody thinks to have them as an advisor, family member, friend, reverend or mentor.


There's another level of thinking required for you to comprehend this. If you're unwilling to think two or three levels deep, you're not going to get it.Well, when I asked you if you'd have him on your campaign, you said something a little closer to the truth for most people. You saidNot if he didn't agree with me on the bulk of the issues that I felt were relevant...no.I think race relations, overall concepts of what America stands for..... these would need to fall into "the bulk of the issues...relevant" to a presidential candidate, don't you think? I mean, one of his strongest selling points is that he's bi-racial, and can unite the races. Race is and has been a factor in his campaign. Whether or not you are proud of America's actions or think we cause our demise is, in general, a factor for a presidential candidate, isn't it?

There's another level of thinking required for you to comprehend this. If you're unwilling to think two or three levels deep, you're not going to get it.

Is this what they're calling it now - another level of thinking?

:roflmao:

You appear to be quite comfortable with racial slurs. I'm not. I fail to see what is so self-righteous about that.

:lol:

What part of...

"Hey...cut that crap out!"

... says "I'm comfortable with that. :yay:" ?

:confused:

And, once more with feeling:

SEE?????

Kerad, do Democrats ever do anything that you don't wholeheartedly approve of?


No....NEVER.

Well except for those times when I publicly disapprove of their actions...which has happened several times in this lovely forum.

:lol:

What part of...



... says "I'm comfortable with that. :yay:" ?

:confused:

I think it is this part

Now, back to what we were talking about..."

:lol:


:roflmao:

I mean, one of his strongest selling points is that he's bi-racial, and can unite the races. Race is and has been a factor in his campaign. Whether or not you are proud of America's actions or think we cause our demise is, in general, a factor for a presidential candidate, isn't it?


...but, until Hillary started losing race was on no ones national radar as a leading campaign issue. Fact is, racism in America today is at an all time low in terms of being in anyone's way for life, liberty and their pursuit of happiness. It just is. That don't mean 'perfect'. It's just the best it's ever been and that is worth celebrating and worth noting.

The tragicomical aspect of this whole thing is a person of color is on the threshold of becoming potus and the primary threat to him NOT making it is because he is so far left of center in his politics. On top of that, the people who made race an issue is big time Democrats who say it shouldn't matter.

For well over 50 years, guys like Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and Billy Graham have served as "spiritual advisers" to Republican presidents going back to Eisenhower. All of these guys have made devisive, racist, predjudiced, intollerent, and anti-American statements that are just as bad as those of Wright. But we always urged everyone, even the offended, to vote for these candidates based on their own convictions and not those of any minister the candidate talks to or takes advice from.

Okay... explain this to me... besides the fact that many on the Right are now being offended, what's the difference between Graham, Falwell, and Wright?

If you cannot see the difference between Billy Graham and Wright, then your brain is idling badly. I dont know much about Robertson or Falwell, but Billy Graham has always appeared to me to be a true believer. I would like for you to show me where Billy Graham has said anything racist, predjudiced intolerant or anti-American. God Damn America, or anything close. Anyone who hates McCain so badly that they try to justify the vomit that comes forth from the mouth of Wright by attacking Billy Graham is in a mental state bordering on the insane.

I also like the way you try to lay this on Republicans.
Did Republicans force Wright to say God Damn America?
Did Republicans call Obama's candidacy a Fairy tale?
Did Republicans say Obama is where he is because of his race?
Are Republicans in charge of the media that is bringing these things to light?

No sir,

I think it is this part


Right.

First chastisement..."Hey, cut that crap out!"
...then moving on..."Now, back to what we were talking about."


Only an idiot wouldn't figure out that I wasn't happy with that language.



Or are you trying to retroactively change the parameters of that scenario?

Haiku of O'Bama's speech:

change is difficult
there is much work to be done
get to it, whitey


*I forget what blog I stole this from

...but, until Hillary started losing race was on no ones national radar as a leading campaign issue. Fact is, racism in America today is at an all time low in terms of being in anyone's way for life, liberty and their pursuit of happiness. It just is. That don't mean 'perfect'. It's just the best it's ever been and that is worth celebrating and worth noting.

The tragicomical aspect of this whole thing is a person of color is on the threshold of becoming potus and the primary threat to him NOT making it is because he is so far left of center in his politics. On top of that, the people who made race an issue is big time Democrats who say it shouldn't matter.I agree race is much more a Democratic issue than a Republican one. It has been for decades. Republicans stand for every individual, regardless of race, color, or creed, being responsible for their own actions while Democrats say some people need handouts to be equals.

I also agree that race was far less on people's minds until it came down to race vs. gender, and gender was losing. Certainly Hillary couldn't be losing because people disagree with her :diva: :lol:, so she injected a little race-baiting to help herself out.

Race shouldn't matter - it's not why I supported Gonzolez, Powell, Rice...... nor is it why I'm against Barry. But, as you say, it's still not perfect, and there are many, many racists out there. I'm proud to live in a time where they're fewer and fewer, and one can call out the racism without fear.

Wouldn't it be funny if Rev. Wright goes down in history as the man who "totally ####ing blew it" for the first serious black presidential contender.

Right.

First chastisement..."Hey, cut that crap out!"
...then moving on..."Now, back to what we were talking about."


Only an idiot wouldn't figure out that I wasn't happy with that language.



Or are you trying to retroactively change the parameters of that scenario?

You asked a question, I gave you the answer. Just because you don't like the answer does not make it wrong. :pete:

Wouldn't it be funny if Rev. Wright goes down in history as the man who "totally ####ing blew it" for the first serious black presidential contender.

Wiki has already started the article. I wonder if he is going to un-retire and blast whitey for causing Obama to crash?

Wouldn't it be funny if Rev. Wright goes down in history as the man who "totally ####ing blew it" for the first serious black presidential contender.

...I think the thought process is interesting. Certainly, Obama and company knew some people might object to him going to a church where the minister damns the US, God damns us.

So, what did they think?

We'll have a nice ride until that gets out? No one will notice? No one will care? I'll give a speech and talk about my WHITE grandmother? I'll send Michelle out there? The media will cover my back?

...I think the thought process is interesting. Certainly, Obama and company knew some people might object to him going to a church where the minister damns the US, God damns us.

So, what did they think?

We'll have a nice ride until that gets out? No one will notice? No one will care? I'll give a speech and talk about my WHITE grandmother? I'll send Michelle out there? The media will cover my back?

Jesse and Al would show up and scare the bejezus out of the critics.

Haiku of O'Bama's speech:

change is difficult
there is much work to be done
get to it, whitey

:killingme

I love that!

Ol' Barry was in a big hurry to point a finger at another public figure who made a stupid insignificant racial comment in a vain attempt to be funny. Pretty unforgiving for a guy who dissmisses the racial hate speech of his own mentor with ease.

Obama: Fire Imus - Obama First White House Contender to Call for Imus' Firing Over Racial Slur (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3031317&page=1)

"I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus," Obama told ABC News, "but I would also say that there's nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude."

So, what did they think?

We'll have a nice ride until that gets out? No one will notice? No one will care? I'll give a speech and talk about my WHITE grandmother? I'll send Michelle out there? The media will cover my back?
Yes.

Jesse and Al would show up and scare the bejezus out of the critics.
Yes.

Ol' Barry was in a big hurry to point a finger at another public figure who made a stupid insignificant racial comment in a vain attempt to be funny. Pretty unforgiving for a guy who dissmisses the racial hate speech of his own mentor with ease.

Obama: Fire Imus - Obama First White House Contender to Call for Imus' Firing Over Racial Slur (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3031317&page=1)

"I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus," Obama told ABC News, "but I would also say that there's nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude."


...good, not good at all.

Jesse and Al would show up and scare the bejezus out of the critics.

...a joke for that, but I am afraid of saying it as it will make me a racist.

...a joke for that, but I am afraid of saying it as it will make me a racist.

Just thinking about the joke in your head can make you a racist. Be careful before the darkside gets ahold of you.

Just thinking about the joke in your head can make you a racist. Be careful before the darkside gets ahold of you.

...got that joke I didn't tell, you might be a racist.

:lmao:

...50% white (both his mothers parents were white) and he is something like 40% black and 10% Arab due to the background of his dad.

So, racist against who? Against himself?

If I were him, that would be central to my speech today, that I am mixed race and, thus, can NOT be racist.

If you really believe that because he is part white and part black he cant be a racist, you need a reality check.

In a set of "talking points" on the church's Web site (http://www.tucc.org/talking_points.htm), Wright proclaims himself an exponent of "black liberation theology." He cites James Cone, a distinguished professor at New York's Union Theological Seminary, whom he credits for having "systematized" this strain of Christianity.

Here is a quote from James Cone, explaining black liberation theology:

Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. . . . Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.

Could Obama really have been unaware for all these years that his spiritual mentor follows a racially adversarial theology, one that demands of God that he be "for us and against white people" and that he participate "in the destruction of the white enemy"? It doesn't exactly sound like the sort of change we can believe in.

From WSJ (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120568855824539755.html?mod=Best of the Web Today)

If you cannot see the difference between Billy Graham and Wright, then your brain is idling badly. I dont know much about Robertson or Falwell, but Billy Graham has always appeared to me to be a true believer. I would like for you to show me where Billy Graham has said anything racist, predjudiced intolerant or anti-American. God Damn America, or anything close. Anyone who hates McCain so badly that they try to justify the vomit that comes forth from the mouth of Wright by attacking Billy Graham is in a mental state bordering on the insane.

I also like the way you try to lay this on Republicans.
Did Republicans force Wright to say God Damn America?
Did Republicans call Obama's candidacy a Fairy tale?
Did Republicans say Obama is where he is because of his race?
Are Republicans in charge of the media that is bringing these things to light?

No sir,

Aye carumba! For about the millionth time, in my opinion this is not about anything more than one core issue - attacking a candidate based on what his religious leaders say. In the past, Republicans have always said this was wrong, and now we are saying it is okay just to win an election,

Once more, the question nobody seems to want to answer: If this were a white Republican candidate and a white minister, what do you think would happen?

That's an easy question to answer! The Democrats would be howling like a pack of banshees. They would be attacking the candidate like mad, and they would be doing everything possible to try to make the minister's comments out to be the Republican candidate's. They've been doing that for years.

And the Republicans would be denouncing the horrid conduct of the Democrats, saying that those were the words of the minister and not the candidate, and that they can't believe that Democrats would be willing to sink so low as to use lies and innuendo to try and smear their candidate. Lastly, they would say they themselves would never stoop so low.

Boy... wouldn't they be wrong!

Aye carumba! For about the millionth time, in my opinion this is not about anything more than one core issue - attacking a candidate based on what his religious leaders say. In the past, Republicans have always said this was wrong, and now we are saying it is okay just to win an election,

If that's the case, then the point you seem to be missing is that it's not just that a religious leader who he happens to be aligned with is spouting hate-filled drivel.

It's HIS religious leader. Personally, him. The one he chose. The one he specifically picked and has followed lo these many years.

And the more I read about this nutcase, the more I'm convinced that his rhetoric is not something new or a sporadic outburst which Obama could possibly have missed, as the apologists are trying to make it seem.

I wonder how much more pathetic we can get.



Did you not read the Quote Bain Provided ....... comparing Wights, rhetoric with B Hussian O's Voting record or Michelle's comments in speeches .....

...The fact that Obama talks differently than Jeremiah Wright does not mean that his track record is different. Barack Obama’s voting record in the Senate is perfectly consistent with the far-left ideology and the grievance culture, just as his wife’s statement that she was never proud of her country before is consistent with that ideology.


Sorry dude but your blind following of BHO might be more pathetic .....

I just found out that my great-grandmother engineered the ending of three of her five kids's marriages, including that of my own grandparents, and forced two of my uncles to change their names and convert their religion, all in the name of observing the dogma of the Catholics.




I think the Catholic Church has come along way, since your Great Grandmother walked the earth .... whats that 100 yrs ?

and if you want to go there my MIL is a rabid Anti Catholic - born and raised in Western PA .... and about had a cow when she found out I was Raised Catholic .... I certainly was not raised to hate Protestants, but I have gotten enough Anti Catholic Comments from them over the years .....

:boxing:

For well over 50 years, guys like Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and Billy Graham have served as "spiritual advisers" to Republican presidents going back to Eisenhower. All of these guys have made devisive, racist, predjudiced, intollerent, and anti-American statements that are just as bad as those of Wright. But we always urged everyone, even the offended, to vote for these candidates based on their own convictions and not those of any minister the candidate talks to or takes advice from.

Okay... explain this to me... besides the fact that many on the Right are now being offended, what's the difference between Graham, Falwell, and Wright?



Nice Paint Brush .... got any quotes or Video to back up your outlandish claims ....

:coffee:

Once again... it pains me to see folks who have decried the Democrat's tactics for years, stooping to their tactics. This will be the first time since the Nixon-McGovern race that two diametrically opposed sides, who openly profess their leanings, will be going at it in an election. There isn't going to be a lot of running to the middle in this election, and the issues will be the prime driver. And what do conservatives and Republicans want to do? They want to take the Democrat low road and attack a guy based on what his preacher said, the old Guilt By Religious Affiliation road that we just said was closed after Romney was attacked for being a Morman.

I wonder how much more pathetic we can get.

Oh, ok. NOW I get it. It's all the Republicans fault! :doh:

Trying to change the subject is not going to work.

Didn't a lot of us vote for George Bush, who is allied with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, the former of whom said "God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve" and the later who agreed with his comment?


Allied? Did he sit in their churches for 20 years? Did he contribute at least $20,000 to their churches? Did either of them baptise the President's daughters? Marry him and Laura?


Big difference.

gays

See???

:lmao::lmao:

If there's a video or some other evidence that Obama actively cheered and approved of the speeches in question, things would certainly be different.

Funny how the only videos that have miraculously sprung up are the controversial ones. Do you think this is all the guy ever said? Evey single Sunday...nothing but these types of remarks? Or do you think the majority of his sermons were a bit more of what we expect a preacher to speak about?

Of course, putting these speeches into the context of an entire career's worth of sermons would decrease the shock value...so we're not going to have any of that.


As I stated before, when something can be attributed directly to Obama....then I'm interested. Until then, it's nothing I'm concerned about.

Wow.

Well, I'd like to see some of his speeches from his "community organizing" days in southside Chicago. I'll bet he was a good rabble rouser.
~~~
rabble-rouser - Definitions from Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rabble-rouser)
rab·ble-rous·er http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Frabble-rouser) /ˈræbhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəlˌraʊhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngzər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rab-uhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngl-rou-zer] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun a person who stirs up the passions or prejudices of the public, usually for his or her own interests; demagogue.
~~~
I'm just guessing that, in the south of Chicago, there weren't all that many white people. So I guess it would be quite likely that he used many methods of stirring the pot that referenced the "white man keeping the black man down" more than once or twice. His job depended on his being GOOD at it. And he did it for 7 years.

You're making a declarative statement that his pastor has been saying these things for 20 years. Might I inquire that this declaration is based on? All I keep hearing are excerpts from the sermons he made during his final year as the pastor.


No - at least one of the clips was from the weekend after 9-11-2001.

Ol' Barry was in a big hurry to point a finger at another public figure who made a stupid insignificant racial comment in a vain attempt to be funny. Pretty unforgiving for a guy who dissmisses the racial hate speech of his own mentor with ease.

Obama: Fire Imus - Obama First White House Contender to Call for Imus' Firing Over Racial Slur (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3031317&page=1)

"I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus," Obama told ABC News, "but I would also say that there's nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude."

:pete:



Thank God AlGore invented the intraweb, or we'd never be able to remind the folks about this kind of stuff so fast!

Lord... why can't people ever provide a straight answer to a straight question? I ask thee as a humble agnostic... illuminate me with an answer.

How does him saying ""you don't and can't understand because you aint black" equate to he's been preaching this stuff for the 20 years that Obama has been in his church. So... one more time... where is the evidence that Wright has been saying these awful, repugnant, things for the past 20 years???


With all due respect, didn't you tell someone on another thread that you don't provide their research?

Google is your friend.

:popcorn:

Aye carumba! For about the millionth time, in my opinion this is not about anything more than one core issue - attacking a candidate based on what his religious leaders say. In the past, Republicans have always said this was wrong, and now we are saying it is okay just to win an election,

Aye carumba yourself! For about the millionth time, the right wing looney religious leaders are NOT the religious leaders of [insert name of evil Republican here]. Wright IS the religious leader of Obama and has been for 20 years.

To sum up:
[insert name of evil Republican here] - spent 20 minutes with looney religious leaders
Obama - spent 20 years with one looney religious leader.

Yes, I see a difference.