The question is this.
If you were to spend money to put your child in a tennis, or dance etc... class, and when you got there you discovered that the class had a special education student ex.. autistic, mentally challenged, whatever, would you be upset?
If that child is going to need more attention, and more time to learn, its going to detract from what your child gets as far as instruction.
Since you paid good money for the class, do you expect that those in the class be able to keep up with the course all the way through, or is it perfectly ok for your child to have less of a learning experience while the teacher and shadows deal with the child in question.

same for school, is it fair to the other children to be slowed down by the challenged child.

no need to get nasty, Im just curious.

In school they have special ed. If they can't keep up they may hinder others from learning. As expensive as dance classes are, I'd want my child to have as much attention/teaching as I paid for.

Thus the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND issue!

It sucks. Children who are ready to move on, just can't. They have to wait for the slower kids to catch up.

I wish they'd bring back Special education classes. That way everyone moves at their own pace.

just my 2 cents

Thus the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND issue!

It sucks. Children who are ready to move on, just can't. They have to wait for the slower kids to catch up.

I wish they'd bring back Special education classes. That way everyone moves at their own pace.

just my 2 cents
Providing that the children get the specialized teachers that they need, I agree.
I think two things happen when they are put in regular classrooms.
1) the rest of the class will be slowed down a bit to allow the slower learners to try to keep up.
2) the class still wont go as slow as needed for the special education kids, and they will still be left behind.

I think it fails on both sides.

Thus the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND issue!

It sucks. Children who are ready to move on, just can't. They have to wait for the slower kids to catch up.

I wish they'd bring back Special education classes. That way everyone moves at their own pace.

just my 2 cents

I'm pretty sure they still have them here. My son has a speech delay. A speech therapist pulls him out of class twice per week. This will eventually allow him to catch up to the other kids. If the teacher had to do that the other kids would not get enough time with her.

Providing that the children get the specialized teachers that they need, I agree.
I think two things happen when they are put in regular classrooms.
1) the rest of the class will be slowed down a bit to allow the slower learners to try to keep up.
2) the class still wont go as slow as needed for the special education kids, and they will still be left behind.

I think it fails on both sides.

yes, it does.

I coached youth soccer for years and one year a parent came to me and told me that their son was autistic and might need a little me attention than the other kids. I found out very quickly that he listened better than any of my other kids, and follow directions to the letter. Instead of more coaching, he ended up helping me out by showing all the other kids how to do things, so as for your question bcp, I have been on both sides, so I cant say one way or the other.

Thus the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND issue!

It sucks. Children who are ready to move on, just can't. They have to wait for the slower kids to catch up.

I wish they'd bring back Special education classes. That way everyone moves at their own pace.

just my 2 centsSchools in Maryland have special ed classes. They do not mainstream unless they feel the child can keep up. Parents can allow their child to be mainstreamed or not. If the parent feels his/her child is not capable of mainstreaming, he/she can be kept in special ed class.

I see "normal" kids who are as disruptive and/or more disruptive than any "special needs" kid could be so I'd go with the "wait and see" option. Some kids don't have the maturity level that other kids the same age have and the few "special needs" kids that I've had contact with seem to go out of their way (if able) to be/act as normal as possible to fit in with their peers.

I see "normal" kids who are as disruptive and/or more disruptive than any "special needs" kid could be so I'd go with the "wait and see" option. Some kids don't have the maturity level that other kids the same age have and the few "special needs" kids that I've had contact with seem to go out of their way (if able) to be/act as normal as possible to fit in with their peers.
This was actually more about things like, swimming lessons, dance tennis etc.. where you spend fairly decent money from your own pocket to have your child spend time in a class with a real instructor.
Thats what I was really wondering,
school is another story, if you got rid of every kid that was disruptive at one point or another, the classrooms might end up pretty empty.

This was actually more about things like, swimming lessons, dance tennis etc.. where you spend fairly decent money from your own pocket to have your child spend time in a class with a real instructor.
Thats what I was really wondering,
school is another story, if you got rid of every kid that was disruptive at one point or another, the classrooms might end up pretty empty.

If their parents are paying, what's the difference? I think the issue of "paying" equalizes the playing field. If the parents of the perceived normal children don't like it, they are free to choose another organization. Although, in general, I don't have a problem with all children getting a chance to participate.

This was actually more about things like, swimming lessons, dance tennis etc.. where you spend fairly decent money from your own pocket to have your child spend time in a class with a real instructor.
Thats what I was really wondering,
school is another story, if you got rid of every kid that was disruptive at one point or another, the classrooms might end up pretty empty.

I'm talking about that too. My oldest had a kid who was disruptive at practices and games and basically made each event barely tolerable for the kids and parents. I just think some kids can handle participating in sports/lessons and some should just be kept at home. It should be pretty obvious to the parents how their kid will react to an organized activity. If they think they can handle it, go for it!! If it becomes obvious that they can't, do everyone a favor and remove them from said activity. Special needs or not.

Mmmm...there's a lot to be learned by working with the handicapped. Patience, cooperation, compassion. Those qualities are more important to me than a wicked backhand and will serve you better throughout life.

So, no, I wouldn't be upset if there were a special needs child in one of my kids' classes. If the kid were really disruptive, that would be one thing - obviously he's not ready for that sort of experience and the coach/instructor should tell his parents that. But some kid who just needs a little more time and patience should be allowed to participate.

If you want your kid to take their lessons seriously and be the next Serena Williams, you should cough up for private lessons. Otherwise it's just for fun.

If their parents are paying, what's the difference? I think the issue of "paying" equalizes the playing field. If the parents of the perceived normal children don't like it, they are free to choose another organization. Although, in general, I don't have a problem with all children getting a chance to participate.
Well, the way I see it, if you spend dollars for the lessons, and the instructors time is taken up with the child that is special needs leaving the other children basically without lesson.
I think that is not fair, and it should not be on the other parents to find another course, by the time you figure out what is going on in the class, it is almost always too late to get your refund if you back out.

but, I understand that some people do think like you, thats why I did the poll.

Mmmm...there's a lot to be learned by working with the handicapped. Patience, cooperation, compassion. Those qualities are more important to me than a wicked backhand and will serve you better throughout life.

So, no, I wouldn't be upset if there were a special needs child in one of my kids' classes. If the kid were really disruptive, that would be one thing - obviously he's not ready for that sort of experience and the coach/instructor should tell his parents that. But some kid who just needs a little more time and patience should be allowed to participate.

If you want your kid to take their lessons seriously and be the next Serena Williams, you should cough up for private lessons. Otherwise it's just for fun.
Again, some very good points.
but, how about if the parents had the option of knowing before hand that the class included a potential issue as far as this goes.

Well, the way I see it, if you spend dollars for the lessons, and the instructors time is taken up with the child that is special needs leaving the other children basically without lesson.
I think that is not fair, and it should not be on the other parents to find another course, by the time you figure out what is going on in the class, it is almost always too late to get your refund if you back out.

but, I understand that some people do think like you, thats why I did the poll.

But what makes your hard-earned dollar of more value than the hard-earned dollar of a parent with a special needs child? I somewhat understand the premise of your poll but I think the money aspect of it isn't the real issue.

Again, some very good points.
but, how about if the parents had the option of knowing before hand that the class included a potential issue as far as this goes.

Key word highlighted.

Every kid has the potential to be a disruptive ass who ruins it for everyone. I wouldn't be alarmed just based on their mental capabilities, especially if I didn't even know the kid. Wait and see, as others have said.

Key word highlighted.

Every kid has the potential to be a disruptive ass who ruins it for everyone. I wouldn't be alarmed just based on their mental capabilities, especially if I didn't even know the kid. Wait and see, as others have said.
ok, Ill come right out and say it.
Im not actually talking about behavior as the problem
Im talking about parents that have autistic children, and the one Im talking about is not what would be considered a "functional" autistic child. Ive even seen a parent demand that their kid in a wheel chair be involved in a tennis class, who the hell can push a wheelchair well enough to keep up with a game of tennis? Mom better be in some damn good shape for that one.
this is an issue that is of no fault of the parent or the child.
What it does do is turns almost all of the attention to the child with the needs, leaving the others with less of an experience than they would have had in a class with kids of all the same basic skill level.

and yes, I can make positive arguments for both sides of this, but I tend to lean more to the side of the kids that can excel.

ok, Ill come right out and say it.
Im not actually talking about behavior as the problem
Im talking about parents that have autistic children, and the one Im talking about is not what would be considered a "functional" autistic child. Ive even seen a parent demand that their kid in a wheel chair be involved in a tennis class, who the hell can push a wheelchair well enough to keep up with a game of tennis? Mom better be in some damn good shape for that one.
this is an issue that is of no fault of the parent or the child.
What it does do is turns almost all of the attention to the child with the needs, leaving the others with less of an experience than they would have had in a class with kids of all the same basic skill level.

and yes, I can make positive arguments for both sides of this, but I tend to lean more to the side of the kids that can excel.


Quit your biatching.

Quit your biatching.
no. but thank you for offering that alternative.

What it does do is turns almost all of the attention to the child with the needs, leaving the others with less of an experience than they would have had in a class with kids of all the same basic skill level.

That's not necessarily true.

If the kid is not mentally or physically functional at all, he doesn't belong in the class and it sounds like the parents are using it for cheap babysitting. But if he is capable of learning to some degree and can do the basics that are required for the class - just takes some extra time, patience and encouragement - then he should be allowed to participate.

I give you Special Olympics as an example of kids who are disabled in some fashion, yet are fully capable of playing a sport.

There are many levels of "special needs", from mild autism to complete vegetative state. I can't give an opinion without a specific example, because it really depends on the child's level of functionality.

You know, there's a wheelchair basketball association and these guys could whip my two-fully-functioning-legged ass easy. You should see the video of them - it's really something.

You know, there's a wheelchair basketball association and these guys could whip my two-fully-functioning-legged ass easy. You should see the video of them - it's really something.
Ive seen it, and they could whoop my semi functioning legged ass too.

see you in the bleachers.. Ill bring beer.:buddies:

and Vrai, thinking on that wheel chair basketball thing.
picture in your mind if you will, one wheelchair basketball player on the floor with non wheelchair bound players.
Just in your wildest imagination, could you see any chance of something not good maybe happening?

The question is this.
If you were to spend money to put your child in a tennis, or dance etc... class, and when you got there you discovered that the class had a special education student ex.. autistic, mentally challenged, whatever, would you be upset?
If that child is going to need more attention, and more time to learn, its going to detract from what your child gets as far as instruction.
Since you paid good money for the class, do you expect that those in the class be able to keep up with the course all the way through, or is it perfectly ok for your child to have less of a learning experience while the teacher and shadows deal with the child in question.

same for school, is it fair to the other children to be slowed down by the challenged child.

no need to get nasty, Im just curious.


Full disclosure here: I have a child with special needs.

I pay a business for my son to receive instruction in a particular activity with other kids. If I pay good money for my son to get lessons in a particular activity, and he doesn't get something on the first try - is it fair to say, too bad, so sad - you're not worthy of some extra attention? Especially if the goal is to teach the child how to do that particular activity? I actually did make a switch recently when I felt my son was being left behind due to his lack of ability. I didn't make waves, I didn't cause trouble about it, I just felt that he was not getting the same attention for his level of ability that other kids got for their level. Kind of the opposite of the scenario you describe.

I think, ultimately, it's up to the business proprietor to decide if a kid with different abilities will be a good fit with that particular place of business & clientele. In the past, I have always taken the time to interview the proprietors ahead of time in order to let them know what I am looking for (when I pay for my son to receive instruction) and have always been able to reach mutually agreed upon "goals & expectations" on both sides before I sign up and pay for anything. In the case recently, it had been a few years and I had been patient, but I think there were some missed opportunities with my son - and so I searched around and found a better fit. He has a different level of ability. He is not without ability. And there are many ways to tap into that ability in kids. It probably depends on the instructor's ability to do that.

If you're referring to Parks & Recs programs, then they have to follow the regulations of that pesky thing called "The Americans with Disabilities Act" and they can't discriminate against someone with a handicap. But for other places of business - then it's just up to what the market will bear. People will vote with their pocketbooks, and they're certainly entitled to do so. I do.

If there were ever any bad feelings on the part of any parents of other kids -because of my son's lack of abilities and his taking up extra attention from an instructor, thereby "cheating" other kids out of their enrichment & instruction - I've never known of it.

Mind you, it goes without saying that my son is not disruptive - certainly not any more (or less!) than any other regular abled kid. Kids will be kids, afterall.

And again, I would have to say that my son's abilities may be different, but think about what all the other kids can learn from him? They can learn a lot from him - maybe more than he learns from them, in some ways.

And he doesn't take up much more space or air then any other kid! :lol:

As far as school goes - that's another story entirely. I've posted on that around here before. But all kids are entitled to an education. Disabled kids are entitled to a "free and appropriate education".(FAPE) And while they have what is known as an "Individual Education Plan" (IEP) - it's not Burger King and you cannot have everything your way. Mainstreaming is not for every disabled child. I have a huge problem with people who throw around the IDEA and ADA laws in order to have things exactly the way THEY feel it should be for little Johnny or Susie. In fact, I had to fight AGAINST mainstreaming for my child when we first moved to FL. He simply could not learn in a classroom of 20 kids. Even with an assistant. It was a horror. And he was disruptive back then - he was much younger, of course. After 2 days of his being in that class, the principal called me for a meeting. I had to tell her "I told you so" - it was not a good fit for anyone in that class for my son to be in it. So we altered his placement.

Anyway - long answer, but it's never really a cut & dry answer. There are so many variables. But I hope I added something positive to your survey. I didn't vote in the poll, because I didn't really find a choice that fit. :smile:

ok, Ill come right out and say it.
Im not actually talking about behavior as the problem
Im talking about parents that have autistic children, and the one Im talking about is not what would be considered a "functional" autistic child. Ive even seen a parent demand that their kid in a wheel chair be involved in a tennis class, who the hell can push a wheelchair well enough to keep up with a game of tennis? Mom better be in some damn good shape for that one.
this is an issue that is of no fault of the parent or the child.
What it does do is turns almost all of the attention to the child with the needs, leaving the others with less of an experience than they would have had in a class with kids of all the same basic skill level.

and yes, I can make positive arguments for both sides of this, but I tend to lean more to the side of the kids that can excel.

Are these classes through Parks & Recs? They have courses for children with disabilities. I could understand the child in a wheel chair being accepted in the regular abled programs, if they could keep up - but otherwise - IMO - a parent of an autistic child (or any other type of disabled child) who is very low functioning has some issues if they're trying to make the world revolve around their child in a wheel chair or whatever. That's just ridiculous and they should get some counseling.

The question is this.
If you were to spend money to put your child in a tennis, or dance etc... class, and when you got there you discovered that the class had a special education student ex.. autistic, mentally challenged, whatever, would you be upset?
If that child is going to need more attention, and more time to learn, its going to detract from what your child gets as far as instruction.
Since you paid good money for the class, do you expect that those in the class be able to keep up with the course all the way through, or is it perfectly ok for your child to have less of a learning experience while the teacher and shadows deal with the child in question.

same for school, is it fair to the other children to be slowed down by the challenged child.

no need to get nasty, I just have a poorly hidden agenda.

lulz

Are these classes through Parks & Recs? They have courses for children with disabilities. I could understand the child in a wheel chair being accepted in the regular abled programs, if they could keep up - but otherwise - IMO - a parent of an autistic child (or any other type of disabled child) who is very low functioning has some issues if they're trying to make the world revolve around their child in a wheel chair or whatever. That's just ridiculous and they should get some counseling.
yes, I dont actually have anything to do with them, but I do hear and get to read complaints from people.
thats why I asked, lots of people complain about this situation.

Providing that the children get the specialized teachers that they need, I agree.
I think two things happen when they are put in regular classrooms.
1) the rest of the class will be slowed down a bit to allow the slower learners to try to keep up.
2) the class still wont go as slow as needed for the special education kids, and they will still be left behind.

I think it fails on both sides.

Actually research proves the exact opposite. I will read the rest of the posts before I respond and take a deep breath so that I don't take this issue too personally.

Thus the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND issue!

It sucks. Children who are ready to move on, just can't. They have to wait for the slower kids to catch up.

I wish they'd bring back Special education classes. That way everyone moves at their own pace.

just my 2 cents

Go read what it's really about...then form an opinion.

Dr. Ryndak’s research shows that when you place a child with even severe disabilities with the appropriate accommodations and modifications into a classroom with typically developing kids that everyone benefits. By the teachers focusing on the "Best Practices" by using multi modal ways of teaching, they reach the low kids in the class that may not have understood the materials given the general way of teaching. Research shows that the high kids will progress the same but the middle and low kids test scores increase. The benefit to the disabled child having access to the general education curriculum and speech and social role models help incredibly. You may not understand because you are lucky enough to have had a child without a disability. All children learn about the differences and hardships that others may face. They learn early on how lucky they are not to have a disability. Many children want to be a part of helping the child be a part of the classroom. The child with a disability is considered a member of the classroom not a visitor. Children often learn to hate or discriminate those with disabilities because they have never had the opportunity to truly get to be a friend to a person with a disability and some parents (possibly like yourself) say things in front of their typically developing children that makes them afraid or dislike someone that is not like themselves.
I know you added that you really meant sports you pay for, but your taxes pay for our schools too. If only you could walk a mile in that parents shoes you would understand. It is the lack of understanding and compassion that makes me feel sad. I didn't vote in your poll because nothing matched what I would have voted for. As far as disruptions, it would depend on the level of disruption. If a child is physically harming another student they should not be there until their behavior is understood and modified. Behavior can be changed.

Autism is a spectrum disorder. There are many children with autism that are amazingly bright. They tend to have poor social skills, communication, and repetitive behaviors. They would benefit a great deal by being involved in social situations with a trained shadow. More and more children are being diagnosed with autism everyday. We segregated races back in the 60's, how different is it to segregate disabilities? It sounds a lot like discrimination to me.

It sounds a lot like discrimination to me.

I think you're going overboard.

If one of my kids was special needs, I'd prefer they had teachers and sports instructors who were trained to work with kids like that. I'm not sure I'd want them being taught by someone who didn't really know how to help them learn.

It's not wrong for kids with different learning abilities to be in classes - academic or sports - that are suited to their level. That's why the "normal" kids have regular classes, AP, gifted and such - so that each child might learn to the best of their abilities without being held back by kids who aren't on their level.

I think this is what BCP is getting at, but - again - it would depend on the kid's level of functionality whether I think they should be in the regular classes or not.

yes, I dont actually have anything to do with them, but I do hear and get to read complaints from people.
thats why I asked, lots of people complain about this situation.


I see. And on the one hand I can empathize with them, but on the other hand, any kid can be disruptive or slow to learn and get various activities. Doesn't have to be a handicapped child. And I wonder if those parents who think their kid isn't getting enough of "whatever" for whatever reason would really need a reason, ya know? Like someone else said - that's probably where private lessons would be useful.

ok, Ill come right out and say it.
Im not actually talking about behavior as the problem
Im talking about parents that have autistic children, and the one Im talking about is not what would be considered a "functional" autistic child. Ive even seen a parent demand that their kid in a wheel chair be involved in a tennis class, who the hell can push a wheelchair well enough to keep up with a game of tennis? Mom better be in some damn good shape for that one.
this is an issue that is of no fault of the parent or the child.
What it does do is turns almost all of the attention to the child with the needs, leaving the others with less of an experience than they would have had in a class with kids of all the same basic skill level.

and yes, I can make positive arguments for both sides of this, but I tend to lean more to the side of the kids that can excel.

Perhaps the more valuable lesson the other children can learn is compassion for others and especially for those who are disabled. I would consider such a situation a wonderful learning experience for my child. I want my child to learn empathy and compassion much more than I would want him to get one on one attention from his tennis instructor - - or whatever instructor - - fill in the blank.

Does anyone remember the issues with Julie Randall's child?

Perhaps the more valuable lesson the other children can learn is compassion for others and especially for those who are disabled. I would consider such a situation a wonderful learning experience for my child. I want my child to learn empathy and compassion much more than I would want him to get one on one attention from his tennis instructor - - or whatever instructor - - fill in the blank.
there is a substantial amount of value in what you said. and, I have spoken to a number of parents that feel the same way.
however, the ones that cause me to question this are saying that regardless of those issues, they paid for a class that was supposed to be at "x" level, but because of special or additional attention to the one student, that level was not delivered to their children.

My opinion? tennis or whatever, Who GAF? seriously,
as far as education in school, I have not had to face that situation in my daughters case, she is in all advanced courses.

Does anyone remember the issues with Julie Randall's child?
who is julie randall?

Does anyone remember the issues with Julie Randall's child?

I don't know who Julie Randall is. She may be before my time.

there is a substantial amount of value in what you said. and, I have spoken to a number of parents that feel the same way.
however, the ones that cause me to question this are saying that regardless of those issues, they paid for a class that was supposed to be at "x" level, but because of special or additional attention to the one student, that level was not delivered to their children.



I think those parents in question have an issue with the owner of the business, not the parents or child with special needs. They need to address their financial transaction (paying for those lessons/classes) with the owner.


They have options. They can go someplace else where the owner shares the same philosophy as they do. Or they can pay an instructor for private lessons, etc.

As for Parks & Recs - I think the instructors are independent contractors (although I'm not sure how they are paid, what the scale is, etc.) I found this in the Calvert Co. activity flyer:

"It is the policy of Calvert County that no qualified individual with a disability be excluded from participating in or be denied the benefits of the services, programs or activities provided or made available, or to otherwise be subjected to discrimination by Calvert County."

With P & R - the disabled person does have to meet qualifications to be enrolled in the class. So, if they meet those qualifications, they're enrolled in the class. If other people have a different philosophy than this - then they should think twice about signing up their children @ those places of business.

[I actually do have more thoughts on this, but I am trying to keep my personal feelings for this kind of thing out of it. Ultimately, this boils down to a financial transaction. The parents paying for the lessons do have a right to expect a certain level of instruction. But ALL the parents are paying, so they all have a right to a certain level of instruction. The definition of that level is between the parents who pay and the instructor who gets paid. But I think the parents who are complaining should be doing so to the instructor/owner]

who is julie randall?

I don't know who Julie Randall is. She may be before my time.

I believe she was a county comissioner at one time.

Im impressed with the results of this poll so far.

more people are for inclusion in this case than against it.

however, I do still see a strong point being made by the parents that did the complaining.
as far as autistic goes, I have only known two autistic kids. Both of them are great kids and a lot of fun to be around. The will both tire you out pretty quick, but with all the problems that they may have, they both certainly use their brain to the fullest, and I would go as far to say that they push their brains further than most non-autistic children do.

yet, Im not too sure I would hop in the car with either one behind the wheel, as great as they are, you have to realize that there are going to be some limitations, and some things that they just may not be doing in their life.
One of them I speak of, I would really love to see him playing tennis or something, I have a funny feeling that with enough intense instruction, He might just be able to hold his own pretty quick.

[QUOTE=vraiblonde;3789937]I think you're going overboard.

I am just calling it how I see it. I don't want your "autistic" kid being around my "normal" kid because he needs more help. The thread doesn't say that I don't want to be in a class with the clumsy normal kid that whines and cries and demands extra attention. So we are discriminating over what is "normal" and what is abnormal, and to what extent we can shun another human being from society. Am I not correct? My daughter has autism. I spend/lose at least 40K on her education every year. She has an above average IQ and amazes me everyday on her talents. I want her to learn to be a part of society, but if society is always saying "no, you can’t be in our club because you have a disability" then she will never be a part of society. What many of you fail to understand is that most of these children are still segregated in the schools away from the "typical" kids. These children NEED to be around typically developing kids to help them learn social skills. The only way some parents feel they can provide typically developing kids is to join a ball team or play group. I am sure it is that parent’s worst fear that once again her child is being pushed away by other parents or places because her child has autism and needs additional help. The kid has a shadow/aide. What is the big deal? I can understand totally if your child was being physically harmed, but it doesn't sound like that is the case. Having a child with autism has taught me a lot about life. The biggest thing it has taught me is how other parents take their children's progress for granted and worry about petty things all of the time.
YouTube - Can you spot autism? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjQcxATh1vI)

[quote=vraiblonde;3789937]I think you're going overboard.

I am just calling it how I see it. I don't want your "autistic" kid being around my "normal" kid because he needs more help. The thread doesn't say that I don't want to be in a class with the clumsy normal kid that whines and cries and demands extra attention. So we are discriminating over what is "normal" and what is abnormal, and to what extent we can shun another human being from society. Am I not correct? My daughter has autism. I spend/lose at least 40K on her education every year. She has an above average IQ and amazes me everyday on her talents. I want her to learn to be a part of society, but if society is always saying "no, you can’t be in our club because you have a disability" then she will never be a part of society. What many of you fail to understand is that most of these children are still segregated in the schools away from the "typical" kids. These children NEED to be around typically developing kids to help them learn social skills. The only way some parents feel they can provide typically developing kids is to join a ball team or play group. I am sure it is that parent’s worst fear that once again her child is being pushed away by other parents or places because her child has autism and needs additional help. The kid has a shadow/aide. What is the big deal? I can understand totally if your child was being physically harmed, but it doesn't sound like that is the case. Having a child with autism has taught me a lot about life. The biggest thing it has taught me is how other parents take their children's progress for granted and worry about petty things all of the time.
YouTube - Can you spot autism? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjQcxATh1vI)
WTF are you rambling on about?

I thought childhood sports are about having fun. :confused:

I thought childhood sports are about having fun. :confused:
some people see it differently.
personally, I refuse to be tied to any sport that requires me to be around weekends.

some people see it differently.
personally, I refuse to be tied to any sport that requires me to be around weekends.

My family definitely wasn't in to sports. I played t-ball one year, and my sister played softball one year. My parents wanted us to at least try something. We were both in band though. I just don't understand how/why parents get so caught up in their kids' sports. :shrug: Different strokes for different folks I guess. I guess it's really no different than some of those band parents though. :lol:

My family definitely wasn't in to sports. I played t-ball one year, and my sister played softball one year. My parents wanted us to at least try something. We were both in band though. I just don't understand how/why parents get so caught up in their kids' sports. :shrug: Different strokes for different folks I guess. I guess it's really no different than some of those band parents though. :lol:
yes, but honestly, how often have you seen band parents fighting with other band parents over a bad note or something?:killingme
NERD FIGHT :duel:


p.s.
I was in the band

yes, but honestly, how often have you seen band parents fighting with other band parents over a bad note or something?:killingme
NERD FIGHT :duel:


p.s.
I was in the band

Nope, never saw any fights. :lol:

yes, but honestly, how often have you seen band parents fighting with other band parents over a bad note or something?:killingme
NERD FIGHT :duel:


p.s.
I was in the band

Somehow that doesn't suprise me. I guess I am just rambling again.:whistle:

Somehow that doesn't suprise me. I guess I am just rambling again.:whistle:
exactly what is it that does not surprise you?

[quote=Sadielady;3790493]
WTF are you rambling on about?

Walk in someone else's shoes for a mile. Take a look at Sadie's video. Put yourself in her shoes. Then, perhaps, if you are really lucky and open your mind a tiny bit, you will understand what she is rambling about.

I wouldn't be so fast to throw stones. You never know when you will be forced to walk in the shoes of the person at whom you threw the stones.

[quote=bcp;3790763]

Walk in someone else's shoes for a mile. Take a look at Sadie's video. Put yourself in her shoes. Then, perhaps, if you are really lucky and open your mind a tiny bit, you will understand what she is rambling about.

I wouldn't be so fast to throw stones. You never know when you will be forced to walk in the shoes of the person at whom you threw the stones.
You people are F-ing nuts.

where did I throw stones?

now if you want me to, Im sure arguments could be made.

I suppose I can now expect the gratuitus attack for my poll, followed up by the progression of a-holes following me around trying to make every issue into an I hate the handicap?

I suppose I can now expect the gratuitus attack for my poll,

Stupid.

Annoying.

:razz:

I am just calling it how I see it. I don't want your "autistic" kid being around my "normal" kid because he needs more help. The thread doesn't say that I don't want to be in a class with the clumsy normal kid that whines and cries and demands extra attention.

You're all bent out of shape simply because the question was asked???

Seriously???

Pretty soon, the autistic/disabled kids will out number the "normal" kids anyway

Stupid.

Annoying.

:razz:
you forgot autistaphobe

Walk in someone else's shoes for a mile. Take a look at Sadie's video. Put yourself in her shoes. Then, perhaps, if you are really lucky and open your mind a tiny bit, you will understand what she is rambling about.

I wouldn't be so fast to throw stones. You never know when you will be forced to walk in the shoes of the person at whom you threw the stones.

The question was asked, it was discussed. What's the problem? I didn't see any stones being thrown - maybe some expressed reservation about the situation, somd got an education, and I think this has gone rather well considering the turn it could have taken.

The question is this.
If you were to spend money to put your child in a tennis, or dance etc... class, and when you got there you discovered that the class had a special education student ex.. autistic, mentally challenged, whatever, would you be upset?
If that child is going to need more attention, and more time to learn, its going to detract from what your child gets as far as instruction. Since you paid good money for the class, do you expect that those in the class be able to keep up with the course all the way through, or is it perfectly ok for your child to have less of a learning experience while the teacher and shadows deal with the child in question.

same for school, is it fair to the other children to be slowed down by the challenged child.

no need to get nasty, Im just curious.I see nothing wrong with your question, and I am a parent of an autistic child, now adult. They tried to mainstream my son in school at one point, he was disruptive to the other students and was getting nothing out of the classes. I had him put back in Special Ed. Best move I ever made because he learned more at his own pace. Today he reads, writes, does math, etc. and probably better spelling than some of the posters I've seen around here. :lol: He'll never be absolutely normal, but then who the hell is. As far as a tennis program or some sport? If I'm paying for lessons in whatever sport, my son deserves as much time as yours, no more or less. If he needs extra time, I should pay for it and so should the person that wants more for their child normal or handicapped.

I see nothing wrong with your question, and I am a parent of an autistic child, now adult. They tried to mainstream my son in school at one point, he was disruptive to the other students and was getting nothing out of the classes. I had him put back in Special Ed. Best move I ever made because he learned more at his own pace. Today he reads, writes, does math, etc. and probably better spelling than some of the posters I've seen around here. :lol: He'll never be absolutely normal, but then who the hell is. As far as a tennis program or some sport? If I'm paying for lessons in whatever sport, my son deserves as much time as yours, no more or less. If he needs extra time, I should pay for it and so should the person that wants more for their child normal or handicapped.
At least someone understands.
you sure you dont want to tell me what a bad person I am for asking this question that was brought up because of complaints from OTHER PARENTS...

some people just run around graspin at any straw they can that can bring them the pleasure of being offended or picked on.

What they think is not important. What I know, and what others have real knowledge of me with regards to Autistic or, handicap children is a bit different that ms. Pickedons impression.

I see nothing wrong with your question, and I am a parent of an autistic child, now adult. They tried to mainstream my son in school at one point, he was disruptive to the other students and was getting nothing out of the classes. I had him put back in Special Ed. Best move I ever made because he learned more at his own pace. Today he reads, writes, does math, etc. and probably better spelling than some of the posters I've seen around here. :lol: He'll never be absolutely normal, but then who the hell is. As far as a tennis program or some sport? If I'm paying for lessons in whatever sport, my son deserves as much time as yours, no more or less. If he needs extra time, I should pay for it and so should the person that wants more for their child normal or handicapped.

You're being way too sensible about this. Stop it. I mean it. :nono:

You're being way too sensible about this. Stop it. I mean it. :nono:Maybe I should be annoying! :lol:

Maybe I should be annoying! :lol:

And stupid. :yay:

And stupid. :yay:I forgot that. :killingme

The question is this.
If you were to spend money to put your child in a tennis, or dance etc... class, and when you got there you discovered that the class had a special education student ex.. autistic, mentally challenged, whatever, would you be upset?
If that child is going to need more attention, and more time to learn, its going to detract from what your child gets as far as instruction.
Since you paid good money for the class, do you expect that those in the class be able to keep up with the course all the way through, or is it perfectly ok for your child to have less of a learning experience while the teacher and shadows deal with the child in question.

same for school, is it fair to the other children to be slowed down by the challenged child.

no need to get nasty, Im just curious.

I think your child will than learn two lessons, dance and how to relate to others in society with special needs.

maybe you should do private lessons

I think your child will than learn two lessons, dance and how to relate to others in society with special needs.

maybe you should do private lessons
I think you should read through again, this time try to use a bit of comprehension.

I think you're going overboard.

I am just calling it how I see it. I don't want your "autistic" kid being around my "normal" kid because he needs more help. The thread doesn't say that I don't want to be in a class with the clumsy normal kid that whines and cries and demands extra attention. So we are discriminating over what is "normal" and what is abnormal, and to what extent we can shun another human being from society. Am I not correct? My daughter has autism. I spend/lose at least 40K on her education every year. She has an above average IQ and amazes me everyday on her talents. I want her to learn to be a part of society, but if society is always saying "no, you can’t be in our club because you have a disability" then she will never be a part of society. What many of you fail to understand is that most of these children are still segregated in the schools away from the "typical" kids. These children NEED to be around typically developing kids to help them learn social skills. The only way some parents feel they can provide typically developing kids is to join a ball team or play group. I am sure it is that parent’s worst fear that once again her child is being pushed away by other parents or places because her child has autism and needs additional help. The kid has a shadow/aide. What is the big deal? I can understand totally if your child was being physically harmed, but it doesn't sound like that is the case. Having a child with autism has taught me a lot about life. The biggest thing it has taught me is how other parents take their children's progress for granted and worry about petty things all of the time.
YouTube - Can you spot autism? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjQcxATh1vI)

I think it's sad that this is the biggest thing you've learned about life, while having a child with special needs. It sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder.

All children are special..:yay:

[quote=bcp;3790763]

Walk in someone else's shoes for a mile. Take a look at Sadie's video. Put yourself in her shoes. Then, perhaps, if you are really lucky and open your mind a tiny bit, you will understand what she is rambling about.

I wouldn't be so fast to throw stones. You never know when you will be forced to walk in the shoes of the person at whom you threw the stones.

With all due respect, bcp wasn't throwing any stones at anyone. He was asking a question based on concerns of other parents. I understand bcp asking the question. I understand the other parents' having the concern. [I personally feel sorry for them if it is more important to them to worry that their precious Susie or Johnny isn't getting all the attention they feel they should.] I just think it is crass to tell someone to walk a mile in someone else's shoes when you don't even know the shoes they're walking in. Bcp didn't say these were HIS feelings. He was asking about other parents' concerns.

As I've said before, I have a kid with special needs. At times, he's had to face a gamut of slurs, being shunned and mistreated by ignorant kids, being taken for granted or being ignored/written off as some kind of dolt by totally ignorant adults. But that is not by the majority of people in his life, thank God. And it's because I, as his mother, have made certain that people who are in his life have his best interests at heart.

I have never - not even once in his life - forced him upon anyone or any group whether I paid money for him to join or not, if they didn't want him around. I have demanded that they accept him not matter what - just because he has "right" to be there, I've never used activities for babysitting services, nor did I even put him in paid daycare, after school care, etc.- because I always felt it was MY responsibility to raise him and not others'. That meant I didn't work outside of the home for most of his life and it meant that my life has been a whole lot more complicated than it might have otherwise been. But it's my charge to keep, the hand I was dealt, etc. I don't hold that against other people and I don't blame them for my situation, and I don't expect special favors for it.

bcp - your poll is legitimate, but what you have said really takes slashes at parents of kids with special needs...at what they work so hard to get for their children. you are really just sticking in a knife and twisting it with your words. the emotions that go along with having a kid with special needs may be beyond what you can comprehend.

just because mainstreaming is the law doesn't mean its easy to get for the kids. how much parents have to fight...the emotional battle of it all.... and here you go....coming across as saying they shouldn't have it, whether that's exactly what you meant or not. ouch. really.

it sounds like you are here saying this for other parents?? why don't you just let them say it themselves....you could just stay out of it........

and as for the situation with the tennis lessons....sounds like the instructor has her hands too full, the kid needs an aid/shadow. that's my opinion on the matter. i think that if an instructor could potentially have special needs kids in her classes, she should be prepared with a class or two on the matter. also, if the kid needs more attention than can be expended on him or her, then the kid should have an aid,

oh, BTW: "autistic kids" is not PC, just so you know. Child with autism is. Some use the term autist. don't know how i feel about that. I bet you know more than just 2 kids with autism...you just don't know it! you'd be surprised at how well therapies are working these days. they are kids too, just like your daughter in more ways than you are aware of.

bcp - your poll is legitimate, but what you have said really takes slashes at parents of kids with special needs...at what they work so hard to get for their children. you are really just sticking in a knife and twisting it with your words. the emotions that go along with having a kid with special needs may be beyond what you can comprehend.

just because mainstreaming is the law doesn't mean its easy to get for the kids. how much parents have to fight...the emotional battle of it all.... and here you go....coming across as saying they shouldn't have it, whether that's exactly what you meant or not. ouch. really.

it sounds like you are here saying this for other parents?? why don't you just let them say it themselves....you could just stay out of it........

and as for the situation with the tennis lessons....sounds like the instructor has her hands too full, the kid needs an aid/shadow. that's my opinion on the matter. i think that if an instructor could potentially have special needs kids in her classes, she should be prepared with a class or two on the matter. also, if the kid needs more attention than can be expended on him or her, then the kid should have an aid,

oh, BTW: "autistic kids" is not PC, just so you know. Child with autism is. Some use the term autist. don't know how i feel about that. I bet you know more than just 2 kids with autism...you just don't know it! you'd be surprised at how well therapies are working these days. they are kids too, just like your daughter in more ways than you are aware of.


personally, I think the horse poop is getting to you all in the bin.
now run on back and send someone else to try an misquote me.

personally, I think the horse poop is getting to you all in the bin.
now run on back and send someone else to try an misquote me.


:lol:

I noticed there were several of the posters from the horse forum, too. I've hardly seen postings from them where I frequently hang out.

And who's ever accused you of being PC? I'm just sayin'. :biggrin:

bcp - i didn't misquote you
I think you need to spend a little time in the horse poop yourself. or maybe ignorance is bliss for you.........

:lol:

I noticed there were several of the posters from the horse forum, too. I've hardly seen postings from them where I frequently hang out.

And who's ever accused you of being PC? I'm just sayin'. :biggrin:
Im not PC at all. Never have been, dont expect I ever will be.
Im just saying that maybe the poop leaves one unable to understand what they read.

shouldnt be long before the next pooper comes in .

[QUOTE=vraiblonde;3789937]I think you're going overboard.

I am just calling it how I see it. I don't want your "autistic" kid being around my "normal" kid because he needs more help. The thread doesn't say that I don't want to be in a class with the clumsy normal kid that whines and cries and demands extra attention. So we are discriminating over what is "normal" and what is abnormal, and to what extent we can shun another human being from society. Am I not correct? My daughter has autism. I spend/lose at least 40K on her education every year. She has an above average IQ and amazes me everyday on her talents. I want her to learn to be a part of society, but if society is always saying "no, you can’t be in our club because you have a disability" then she will never be a part of society. What many of you fail to understand is that most of these children are still segregated in the schools away from the "typical" kids. These children NEED to be around typically developing kids to help them learn social skills. The only way some parents feel they can provide typically developing kids is to join a ball team or play group. I am sure it is that parent’s worst fear that once again her child is being pushed away by other parents or places because her child has autism and needs additional help. The kid has a shadow/aide. What is the big deal? I can understand totally if your child was being physically harmed, but it doesn't sound like that is the case. Having a child with autism has taught me a lot about life. The biggest thing it has taught me is how other parents take their children's progress for granted and worry about petty things all of the time.
YouTube - Can you spot autism? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjQcxATh1vI)

:buddies:

Im not PC at all. Never have been, dont expect I ever will be.
Im just saying that maybe the poop leaves one unable to understand what they read.

shouldnt be long before the next pooper comes in .

waiting for another person to reply so you can respond before even trying to understand their point of view? it seems to me that you didn't read or understand my response.
perhaps you are unable to imagine what its like to be in another's shoes. stretch yourself. :love:

waiting for another person to reply so you can respond before even trying to understand their point of view? it seems to me that you didn't read or understand my response.
perhaps you are unable to imagine what its like to be in another's shoes. stretch yourself. :love:
still having a problem with comprehension I see.

keep trying, get a tutor if needed.

still having a problem with comprehension I see.

keep trying, get a tutor if needed.
Devine has a quite an education, I dont think she needs a tutor. Your poll is fine, however I dont understand why you cant see how your words could be hurtful to someone like Sadie who has been fighting one hell of a battle for this same reason?? I have met her daughter. Super bright and not disruptive, yet people like you want to keep her out. Autism is on the rise, and maybe you will never have a child with it, but be careful, your child just might and lets see if your thinking changes then. My mom was a teacher for 30 years. Many kids with disabilities came through her door. She made sure that there were aids for those kids and you know what? Everyone did just fine. Now physically abusive children are different. Any child that poses a physical danger should be removed. But if we all were exposed to what we call "normal" every day what kind of people would we be? Is that how we want our kids to grow up??? JMO

I dont understand why you cant see how your words could be hurtful to someone like Sadie who has been fighting one hell of a battle for this same reason??

Explain it, please, because I don't understand why BCP's words would be considered hurtful?

Explain it, please, because I don't understand why BCP's words would be considered hurtful?
Ok I will try but this thread is large. In the beginning the words were said, and I am not quoting anyone specific because there were lots of words said but just one quote....
"I think two things happen when they are put in regular classrooms.
1) the rest of the class will be slowed down a bit to allow the slower learners to try to keep up.
2) the class still wont go as slow as needed for the special education kids, and they will still be left behind." This is a blanket assupmtion made by a lot of people. The fact is the school system is failing in many, many parts of the country. They are not providing the aides needed. My mother was fortunate enought to teach in private school. She always had an aide and there were no disruptions in her class. But, this is not the case in public school. For someone fighting for inclusion for her child and fighting against those very assumptions, yes, I think it is hurtful and angering. Now is every kid able to go to regular school?? No. Do all parents want their kids in regular school?? No. But for those that do and for the kids who just need a little extra, who are we to say no, you cant. Kids are smarter and more accepting than we give them credit for. We need to teach our kids that not eveyone is a superstar, we all learn and grow at different rates. Diversity is what make the world go around. Teach your kid to reach out a hand and help a child who needs extra, not stay away, not to separate. Thats all I am getting at.

Explain it, please, because I don't understand why BCP's words would be considered hurtful?
I do.
the use of the word "disruptive" was the wrong choice. Causing a teacher to slow down the class is not really disruptive, disruptive would be more (in my mind) as a violent child, or one that constantly interupts.
so, yes, I do see where the use of the word disruptive could be hurtful in this situation. And for that I apologize.

however, what I am not getting is this indication that it is I as in ME that is looking to keep their kids out. Its not. Like I said, my daughter is in advanced courses, College level in some in the 8th grade. I seriously doubt that there would be any studeng requiring extra help in those courses since they will snatch you out of the pretty quick if you start dropping your average.
My daughter is also not involved in group sports as I indicated earlier.
In short, I have no dog in this hunt.

What I do have is access to see complaints coming in from OTHER parents that do deal with this. And the reason I did start this thread was to find out what people think.


now, What did I learn?
well, I learned that most people are not willing to throw the kids into special programs unless it is a better fit indicated by performance in the regular programs.
I learned that those with the autistic children,, Children with autism (learned a new one there too) cant see, or are not willing to see the other side of things. Personally, from just this thread, I would welcome the child into the class, but I think I might kick the moms out to the curb. or, as it appears to be in this case, back to the poop bin where they are currently sitting and discussing what an ass I am for even asking these questions in the first place.

yada yada yada... Teach your kid to reach out a hand and help a child who needs extra, not stay away, not to separate. Thats all I am getting at.
question,
at what point does education over ride compassion.

Ok I will try but this thread is large. In the beginning the words were said, and I am not quoting anyone specific because there were lots of words said but just one quote....
"I think two things happen when they are put in regular classrooms.
1) the rest of the class will be slowed down a bit to allow the slower learners to try to keep up.
2) the class still wont go as slow as needed for the special education kids, and they will still be left behind." This is a blanket assupmtion made by a lot of people. The fact is the school system is failing in many, many parts of the country. They are not providing the aides needed. My mother was fortunate enought to teach in private school. She always had an aide and there were no disruptions in her class. But, this is not the case in public school. For someone fighting for inclusion for her child and fighting against those very assumptions, yes, I think it is hurtful and angering. Now is every kid able to go to regular school?? No. Do all parents want their kids in regular school?? No. But for those that do and for the kids who just need a little extra, who are we to say no, you cant. Kids are smarter and more accepting than we give them credit for. We need to teach our kids that not eveyone is a superstar, we all learn and grow at different rates. Diversity is what make the world go around. Teach your kid to reach out a hand and help a child who needs extra, not stay away, not to separate. Thats all I am getting at.The Patuxent school system (public school) has quite a few aides. In my sons Special Ed class the teacher had a least two and they needed them. All the Special Ed classes in Calvert had aides. From Calvert Country to Patuxent Middle and into Patuxent High School. And the teachers were great. They did wonders with those kids.

question,
at what point does education over ride compassion.
You are still missing the point. You corrected yourself with the use of the word disruption. And I said if I child is harming another or himself its time to remove them. There are many factors going on in this thread. Some schools do great at providing aides and what not. Some dont. If there was an aide around to help the child in question would you have a problem with them participating?? Thats all I am getting at. I am not getting into he said/she said. Next I am not a mom, third, I dont pretend to understand either side of the story. I am neutral. I think its all a case by case basis. But everyone does not aparently agree with that and BCP I am not trying to say its all you or your problem or just point you out. There are lots of opinions here, but that is what you wanted correct?? Peoples opinions for the poll?? I just know one person who's child I think should be included but the school system does not support her. I know the world is not all unicorns and butterflies but I can dream right? Good luck with your poll!

The Patuxent school system (public school) has quite a few aides. In my sons Special Ed class the teacher had a least two and they needed them. All the Special Ed classes in Calvert had aides. From Calvert Country to Patuxent Middle and into Patuxent High School. And the teachers were great. They did wonders with those kids.
But were there aides in the regular classes?? Yes, some public schools are great, but others are not.

What is wrong with the word disruption?

dis·rupt
Pronunciation: \dis-ˈrəpt\
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Latin disruptus, past participle of disrumpere, from dis- + rumpere to break — more at reave
Date: 1793
1 a: to break apart : rupture b: to throw into disorder <agitators trying to disrupt the meeting>
2: to interrupt the normal course or unity of

You are still missing the point. You corrected yourself with the use of the word disruption. And I said if I child is harming another or himself its time to remove them. There are many factors going on in this thread. Some schools do great at providing aides and what not. Some dont. If there was an aide around to help the child in question would you have a problem with them participating?? Thats all I am getting at. I am not getting into he said/she said. Next I am not a mom, third, I dont pretend to understand either side of the story. I am neutral. I think its all a case by case basis. But everyone does not aparently agree with that and BCP I am not trying to say its all you or your problem or just point you out. There are lots of opinions here, but that is what you wanted correct?? Peoples opinions for the poll?? I just know one person who I think's child should be included but the school system does not support her. I know the world is not all unicorns and butterflies but I can dream right?
lets try this one more time. then I just dont have the energy to deal with it.

I do not have a situation that requires me to deal with this in anyway.
My question was generated by curiosity brought on by complaints from real people.
I dont really have an opinion. all I can base it on is one thing.
How would think about it if my daughters education was slowed down to accomadate another child. regardless of the reasons that other child has for slowing down the class,.
My thought is this. I would not like it.
If it was tennis, or softball or any NON education related thing, I would not have any concern over it at all. NONE.

but again, this poll was basically put up to see what people think. and honestly? Im a bit taken back by the people that responded that their child has greater rights in all instances than the other children.
That has really helped me form an opinion on the subject more than their children ever could.

some people are just too damn sensitive.

What is wrong with the word disruption?

dis·rupt
Pronunciation: \dis-ˈrəpt\
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Latin disruptus, past participle of disrumpere, from dis- + rumpere to break — more at reave
Date: 1793
1 a: to break apart : rupture b: to throw into disorder <AGITATORS meeting the disrupt to trying>
2: to interrupt the normal course or unity of

because when you use any word, the over sensitive crowed will certainly pick the worst possible meaning of the word to focus on.
In no way could disruptive mean, slowing the speed of a class, or redirecting attention.

so, take the word away and explain in words the actual meaning of the word instead an peoples feathers go back down..

but be sure they are sitting around the poo tub grabbing up more handfuls to try to sling.

I do.
the use of the word "disruptive" was the wrong choice. Causing a teacher to slow down the class is not really disruptive, disruptive would be more (in my mind) as a violent child, or one that constantly interupts.
so, yes, I do see where the use of the word disruptive could be hurtful in this situation. And for that I apologize.

however, what I am not getting is this indication that it is I as in ME that is looking to keep their kids out. Its not. Like I said, my daughter is in advanced courses, College level in some in the 8th grade. I seriously doubt that there would be any studeng requiring extra help in those courses since they will snatch you out of the pretty quick if you start dropping your average.
My daughter is also not involved in group sports as I indicated earlier.
In short, I have no dog in this hunt.

What I do have is access to see complaints coming in from OTHER parents that do deal with this. And the reason I did start this thread was to find out what people think.


now, What did I learn?
well, I learned that most people are not willing to throw the kids into special programs unless it is a better fit indicated by performance in the regular programs.
I learned that those with the autistic children,, Children with autism (learned a new one there too) cant see, or are not willing to see the other side of things. Personally, from just this thread, I would welcome the child into the class, but I think I might kick the moms out to the curb. or, as it appears to be in this case, back to the poop bin where they are currently sitting and discussing what an ass I am for even asking these questions in the first place.

I am glad you have learned something. I have not used any language that was insulting and I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I do understand the views of others more now that I have a child with a disability than when I just had my first typically developing child only. I only asked that you try to view the situation from the other side, which I guess you were unwilling to do because you could only blurt out how intelligent your child was and how you don't have to worry about it.

From my experience with other parents with children with autism they tend to be more educated in general then the general population. Many tend to have degrees in Engineering and other technical fields of study. They do lots of research on their child's disability and would do anything to help their children succeed in life.

I am far from sensitive at this point in my life. I realize that there are many view points. I also know that ignorance is not going away in my lifetime, but I will still do what it takes to help my own children be independent and successful.

Can I ask something? Why is "autistic child" not PC? I have brown hair. Does that mean I'm not a brown haired girl, I'm a girl with brown hair? :confused: Just asking. :shrug:

I am glad you have learned something. I have not used any language that was insulting and I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I do understand the views of others more now that I have a child with a disability than when I just had my first typically developing child only. I only asked that you try to view the situation from the other side, which I guess you were unwilling to do because you could only blurt out how intelligent your child was and how you don't have to worry about it.

From my experience with other parents with children with autism they tend to be more educated in general then the general population. Many tend to have degrees in Engineering and other technical fields of study. They do lots of research on their child's disability and would do anything to help their children succeed in life.

I am far from sensitive at this point in my life. I realize that there are many view points. I also know that ignorance is not going away in my lifetime, but I will still do what it takes to help my own children be independent and successful.

even if it is at the expense of others.

Now we do understand each other.

bcp - your poll is legitimate, but what you have said really takes slashes at parents of kids with special needs...at what they work so hard to get for their children. you are really just sticking in a knife and twisting it with your words. the emotions that go along with having a kid with special needs may be beyond what you can comprehend.

just because mainstreaming is the law doesn't mean its easy to get for the kids. how much parents have to fight...the emotional battle of it all.... and here you go....coming across as saying they shouldn't have it, whether that's exactly what you meant or not. ouch. really.

it sounds like you are here saying this for other parents?? why don't you just let them say it themselves....you could just stay out of it........

and as for the situation with the tennis lessons....sounds like the instructor has her hands too full, the kid needs an aid/shadow. that's my opinion on the matter. i think that if an instructor could potentially have special needs kids in her classes, she should be prepared with a class or two on the matter. also, if the kid needs more attention than can be expended on him or her, then the kid should have an aid,

oh, BTW: "autistic kids" is not PC, just so you know. Child with autism is. Some use the term autist. don't know how i feel about that. I bet you know more than just 2 kids with autism...you just don't know it! you'd be surprised at how well therapies are working these days. they are kids too, just like your daughter in more ways than you are aware of.


I think bcp is the one complaining but is too much of a coward to actually come out with it. It is common for someone who has a problem with others to be a coward and say "a few parents . . . " when they are, in fact, the person who has the issue. Now, bcp, I am not saying you shouldn't have an issue. I do not know the exact situation as you have not described the situation in detail. All you did was post a poll. The poll selections are vague, at best. So, I did think that bcp was stirring up trouble. Bcp even boasted that her kid wouldn't have to worry about the slower autistic kids in a school situation as her kid is in all AP classes. Sorry if the words were not exact but that was the gist of it. This is why I made the reference to Bcp not walking in others shoes. It is hard for anyone to understand unless they have walked a mile in the shoes of someone whose child was diagnosed with autism. It is a walk I hope that Bcp will never, ever have to take.

Now, this discussion seems rather clear to me. Bcp has a problem with a child who has autism in her child's lesson program (whatever that may be). I do NOT believe that bcp is relaying, as a good samaritan, the issues other parents have presented to her. She just doesn't want to call attention that it is her that has the problem with the child, for some odd reason. It is okay to have an issue and seek advice of others. Now, the real situation and the exact details would help us to formulate an opinion. This hypothetical that was presented is just bizzare. Tell the real story. Perhaps we can provide you with a more detailed opinion.

If I am wrong about Bcp, then I apoligize in advance. This whole story just seems rather strange to me.

I think bcp is the one complaining but is too much of a coward to actually come out with it. It is common for someone who has a problem with others to be a coward and say "a few parents . . . " when they are, in fact, the person who has the issue. Now, bcp, I am not saying you shouldn't have an issue. I do not know the exact situation as you have not described the situation in detail. All you did was post a poll. The poll selections are vague, at best. So, I did think that bcp was stirring up trouble. Bcp even boasted that her kid wouldn't have to worry about the slower autistic kids in a school situation as her kid is in all AP classes. Sorry if the words were not exact but that was the gist of it. This is why I made the reference to Bcp not walking in others shoes. It is hard for anyone to understand unless they have walked a mile in the shoes of someone whose child was diagnosed with autism. It is a walk I hope that Bcp will never, ever have to take.

Now, this discussion seems rather clear to me. Bcp has a problem with a child who has autism in her child's lesson program (whatever that may be). I do NOT believe that bcp is relaying, as a good samaritan, the issues other parents have presented to her. She just doesn't want to call attention that it is her that has the problem with the child, for some odd reason. It is okay to have an issue and seek advice of others. Now, the real situation and the exact details would help us to formulate an opinion. This hypothetical that was presented is just bizzare. Tell the real story. Perhaps we can provide you with a more detailed opinion.

If I am wrong about Bcp, then I apoligize in advance. This whole story just seems rather strange to me.you know what?
you crap pile people are just getting too damn stupid.

how about you cowardly asses carry on your conversations in public?

Just to make it clear.
The thread is closed becuase the numbers started going up at a much faster rate to indicate non-inclusion.
interestingly, that started happening about the same time the crap bucket people started running their mouths.

I suspect that in the real world, the children that need additional attention are often turned away not because of their own disability, but because of the mothers mouths that follow along behind them.