Said to me, with a little less than full conviction by the nice lady in the eye doctors office. I stopped in to get a set reworked with updated lenses. As I took off my glasses and removed my helmet, she asked what I rode.

I hooked my thumb towards the door, where my Vstrom was visible outside, and mentioned that it was a pain to remove the glasses to put on or take off the helmet. She said she didnt have that problem, since she wore an open faced helmet. I said I was taught to draw an imaginary line from the forehead to the forward bottom edge. My instructor then asked me how okay I was with all of my face outside that line dragging across the pavement at 40-50mph. I have a vivid imagination, that was enough to convinve me its full face or no ride.

The title line was her response, but it was halfhearted, not really said with conviction, as if she was just repeating what she was told, but wasnt sure she believed it. I then told her one saved my friends life, as attested to the three fractures in the helmet, and his face, as shown by the visor that was completely opaque with abrasions suffered as he slid across the ground unconcious.

If you drop at a high speed, chances are that the helmet wont do you too much good in the end other than maybe keeping your face in a condition that will make indentifying you easier.
However, in a minor accident, that helmet could be the difference between riding a bike again, or riding a short bus.

when I dropped mine back in the early 80s, the helmet took the hit on a curb as I slid down the gutter. Never rode without a helmet after that.

She's an idiot. Obviously, it depends on the nature of the crash as to whether or not the helmet is likely to help you. But, since you don't usually know what kind of crash you are going to get into before you get into it, it's ridiculous to make that kind of statement.

Had my brother been wearing a real helmet 4 years ago instead of the 'just for show' one he was wearing, there's a pretty good chance he'd still be alive today and we'd have 4 more years of shared experiences to treasure.

If I'd had a full face when I had one of my many dirt bike crashes I'd still have my real front teeth. Been lucky other than that. Just a few broken bones.

people that don't wear helmets = natural selection.

people that don't wear helmets = natural selection.


People that DO where helmets that don't fit properly = natural selection also.

People that DO where helmets that don't fit properly = natural selection also.

People who are stupid enough to ride motorcycles on normal traffic roads = natural selection.

Sure it's legal, but motorcycles don't have steel cages / roll bars / several thousand pounds or more behind them. I'm sorry, but I see more stupidity in the hobby than thrill. It's asking to be crushed by some motorist. Doesn't matter how safe of a driver you are. There's always someone out there who might be drunk, texting, tired, or any combination.

That being said, safe driving :howdy:

People who are stupid enough to ride motorcycles on normal traffic roads = natural selection.

Sure it's legal, but motorcycles don't have steel cages / roll bars / several thousand pounds or more behind them. I'm sorry, but I see more stupidity in the hobby than thrill. It's asking to be crushed by some motorist. Doesn't matter how safe of a driver you are. There's always someone out there who might be drunk, texting, tired, or any combination.

That being said, safe driving :howdy:

You best stay home on your couch and watch Oprah.. where you're safe.

People who are stupid enough to ride motorcycles on normal traffic roads = natural selection.

Sure it's legal, but motorcycles don't have steel cages / roll bars / several thousand pounds or more behind them. I'm sorry, but I see more stupidity in the hobby than thrill. It's asking to be crushed by some motorist. Doesn't matter how safe of a driver you are. There's always someone out there who might be drunk, texting, tired, or any combination.

That being said, safe driving :howdy:

Nah. These people are stupid:

H3tCc0NLezU

Said to me, with a little less than full conviction by the nice lady in the eye doctors office. I stopped in to get a set reworked with updated lenses. As I took off my glasses and removed my helmet, she asked what I rode.

I hooked my thumb towards the door, where my Vstrom was visible outside, and mentioned that it was a pain to remove the glasses to put on or take off the helmet. She said she didnt have that problem, since she wore an open faced helmet. I said I was taught to draw an imaginary line from the forehead to the forward bottom edge. My instructor then asked me how okay I was with all of my face outside that line dragging across the pavement at 40-50mph. I have a vivid imagination, that was enough to convinve me its full face or no ride.

The title line was her response, but it was halfhearted, not really said with conviction, as if she was just repeating what she was told, but wasnt sure she believed it. I then told her one saved my friends life, as attested to the three fractures in the helmet, and his face, as shown by the visor that was completely opaque with abrasions suffered as he slid across the ground unconcious.

Brought back memories of my grandfather, oddly enough... Explaining to me why he refused to wear a seatbelt. "If I ever drive off a bridge into the water, and the seatbelt jams, I'd drown." Ummm, sure, gramps. Out of the 40,000+ highway fatalities every year, you're worried most about THAT?

Noggin' crates are just a good idea, period!!

If you drop at a high speed, chances are that the helmet wont do you too much good in the end other than maybe keeping your face in a condition that will make indentifying you easier.
However, in a minor accident, that helmet could be the difference between riding a bike again, or riding a short bus.

.

Well, nowadays it's more than just wearing a helmet, at least to those intent on enjoying the sport, and reducing the risk.

I've met quite a few people that have gone down at speed, and have walked back to their bike and kicked it.

Even a story about a senior citizen rearending a (basically) stopped station wagon on an interstate at speed, and living to tell about it.

Rearended at a stop light at speed, and posted about when they got home a couple of hours later.

There's a reason when you watch the motorcyle racing on TV, that they aren't wearing wifebeaters and shorts...They can go down at >100MPH and still walk to the pits.

No matter the speed, you aren't going to fall more than three feet, than you just have to hope you're dressed right for the LONG slowly grating slide, and tumble..

It's your choice: Walk away and go home to dinner with your family, or be carted away by an ambulance or worse a hearse.. I have a wife and 5 kids, that I'm fond of.. I love the sport, but I also want to be around for a good long time for them.

Sort of how I see a bunch of super bikes whipping through traffic wearing wifebeater shirts and shorts and sneakers and just a helmet.

I laugh everytime... I wont ride unless I have long sleeves, jeans, gloves and a helmet atleast. Of course im a beginner in that aspect that I dont even own a own bike.

Nah. These people are stupid:

H3tCc0NLezU

:mad: I never got totally messed up MX'ing.

:mad: I never got totally messed up MX'ing.

You're saying this never happened to you:

E5dqrhcU3a0


:yikes:

You're saying this never happened to you:




:yikes:
that dang cornerworker wasnt even waving his flag... until the last rider landed on him

You're saying this never happened to you:

E5dqrhcU3a0


:yikes:
now,,, was that supposed to happen?

Sort of how I see a bunch of super bikes whipping through traffic wearing wifebeater shirts and shorts and sneakers and just a helmet.

I laugh everytime... I wont ride unless I have long sleeves, jeans, gloves and a helmet atleast. Of course im a beginner in that aspect that I dont even own a own bike.

That long sleeve shirt and jeans aren't going to protect you much more than a wifebeater and shorts :shrug: You should be wearing real gear.

That long sleeve shirt and jeans aren't going to protect you much more than a wifebeater and shorts :shrug: You should be wearing real gear.
AMEN!!

And of course being seen helps too!


Put HID's and MotoLights on the new BIKE.. AWEsome!!

HID's were an EASY install.. went a little too blue I think at 6000k, but it sure makes the parking lights look yellow, and I do believe I stick out of traffic..

That long sleeve shirt and jeans aren't going to protect you much more than a wifebeater and shorts :shrug: You should be wearing real gear.


I'm still slacking on pants, but I did move up to a real CE armored jacket, after years of using my leather Navy flight jacket.

That long sleeve shirt and jeans aren't going to protect you much more than a wifebeater and shorts :shrug: You should be wearing real gear.

I for one know I dont have that kinda money. Some of that stuff is down right expensive for a pair of pants and a jacket. If I got the "good" stuff id spend more on gear for me than the bike would cost!

Not too bad, really Flyod, just have to choose wisely. You dont need this....

Alpinestars 7-2 Leather Jacket - Street Bike - Men's Riding Gear - Motorcycle Superstore (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/1/39/1268/ITEM/Alpinestars-7-2-Leather-Jacket.aspx)

at $400. You could work something like this....

Yoshimura Course Jacket - Street Bike - Men's Riding Gear - Motorcycle Superstore (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/1/39/14484/ITEM/Yoshimura-Course-Jacket.aspx)

For about $100.

I have an older version of this jacket, not much different, except that the orginal Intake was going out, and was clearanced at around $120

$160 for this newer version

Tour Master Intake Air Series 2 Motorcycle Jacket :: New Enough, LTD (http://www.newenough.com/protective_apparel/mesh_jackets_and_pants/tour_master/intake_air_series_2_motorcycle_jacket.html)

Pants to match...

Tour Master Venture Air Mesh Motorcycle Pants :: New Enough, LTD (http://www.newenough.com/protective_apparel/mesh_jackets_and_pants/tour_master/venture_air_mesh_motorcycle_pants.html)

about another $160. We are under $350 so far. With the zip in liners (one for temp, one for water, attach the ones you need) your good for almost any riding your likely to do, barring temps below say 50 or so, lower for short commutes.

I for one know I dont have that kinda money. Some of that stuff is down right expensive for a pair of pants and a jacket. If I got the "good" stuff id spend more on gear for me than the bike would cost!

Well, the bike is replaceable right? Or at least you could do without it. Not so much your ability to walk or think straight.

Look around for used stuff, us rich guys are always upgrading our gear.:lol:

I would have a helmet for sale soon, but its getting handed down to the kids when I get my "new" one (from one of those rich guys:)) Not to mention ron says the purple color make you look gay:)

Well, the bike is replaceable right? Or at least you could do without it. Not so much your ability to walk or think straight.

Look around for used stuff, us rich guys are always upgrading our gear.:lol:

Do you still ride? Lost my number? :popcorn:

People who are stupid enough to ride motorcycles on normal traffic roads = natural selection.

Sure it's legal, but motorcycles don't have steel cages / roll bars / several thousand pounds or more behind them. I'm sorry, but I see more stupidity in the hobby than thrill. It's asking to be crushed by some motorist. Doesn't matter how safe of a driver you are. There's always someone out there who might be drunk, texting, tired, or any combination.

That being said, safe driving :howdy:

This is just a stupid post all the way around... Your right, it's not how safe we are while riding it's how inconsiderate, wreckless and oblivious to their surroundings others are who think we shouldn't be on the same roads as them while they are in a car.

Do you still ride? Lost my number? :popcorn:

Barely, I can still walk a bit though. With a cane though.:buddies:

Barely, I can still walk a bit though. With a cane though.:buddies:

I have a good story about the weekend. The po po showed up while we were recreating in the backyard Sunday....:killingme

I have a good story about the weekend. The po po showed up while we were recreating in the backyard Sunday....:killingme

Can't wait to hear it.:lol:

Helmet saved me when I was a senior in high school. I had a nasty crash on my dirt bike. Bike landed in nice soft sand, I landed on a tree. One side of my face was all cut and swelled up but my brains were intact. I had to reschedule my senior picture appointment that week. My mom made me go to school looking like that, she hated my bike. Bought a full face helmet soon after that.

Thanks for those links Bill. For some reason when I was looking for gear before I just remembered it being like 400 for a jacket and 300 or so for pants and maybe 300 for a helm. And then id need gloves and some boots.

Its been so long since ive ridden I need a new helmet. I went to go put mine on the other day and I dont think its fitting like it should anymore. Of course im no motorbike master or anything.

That long sleeve shirt and jeans aren't going to protect you much more than a wifebeater and shorts :shrug: You should be wearing real gear.

Many years ago when I was still running with the rescue squad, we were coming back from the hospital and pulled up behind a bike at a red light. The male driver was wearing a wife beater and shorts with flip flops and the girl on the back had a halter top and shorts on. I made the comment that I wouldn't want to be on that call if he dropped the bike. An hour later we got called out for a motorcycle accident. It was this couple. He died on the scene. It upset me that I had made that comment, but it upset me more when I saw how he looked an hour later.

Wear your gear for your safety.

Thanks for those links Bill. For some reason when I was looking for gear before I just remembered it being like 400 for a jacket and 300 or so for pants and maybe 300 for a helm. And then id need gloves and some boots.

Its been so long since ive ridden I need a new helmet. I went to go put mine on the other day and I dont think its fitting like it should anymore. Of course im no motorbike master or anything.

Did you get this one?
New Enough Motorcycle Apparel sells motorcycle jackets, pants and suits, boots, gloves, helmets, etc :: New Enough, LTD (http://www.newenough.com/)

The bottom two of my links were to newenough. As far as boots, Floyd, while you can get motorcycle boots, a cheaper alternative might be the surplus store up the road. Look for all leather, thick stuff. Not sure what kind of prices you'll find though.

Flyers Boots (http://www.wholesalearmysurplus.com/Boots-and-Shoes/Boots/Flyers-Boots-p12.html)

Now, newer generation flight boots evidently cost between $150 or so. This kind, which Ive worn for over 20 years now, will offer great protection.

Thanks for those links Bill. For some reason when I was looking for gear before I just remembered it being like 400 for a jacket and 300 or so for pants and maybe 300 for a helm. And then id need gloves and some boots.

Its been so long since ive ridden I need a new helmet. I went to go put mine on the other day and I dont think its fitting like it should anymore. Of course im no motorbike master or anything.

Helmets should be replaced every few years anyway, like within 5. The poly shell gets old and brittle and doesn't absorb the impact as well.

http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/helmet_CSI.pdf

Said to me, with a little less than full conviction by the nice lady in the eye doctors office. I stopped in to get a set reworked with updated lenses. As I took off my glasses and removed my helmet, she asked what I rode.

I hooked my thumb towards the door, where my Vstrom was visible outside, and mentioned that it was a pain to remove the glasses to put on or take off the helmet. She said she didnt have that problem, since she wore an open faced helmet. I said I was taught to draw an imaginary line from the forehead to the forward bottom edge. My instructor then asked me how okay I was with all of my face outside that line dragging across the pavement at 40-50mph. I have a vivid imagination, that was enough to convinve me its full face or no ride.

The title line was her response, but it was halfhearted, not really said with conviction, as if she was just repeating what she was told, but wasnt sure she believed it. I then told her one saved my friends life, as attested to the three fractures in the helmet, and his face, as shown by the visor that was completely opaque with abrasions suffered as he slid across the ground unconcious.


Older than most on here have been down hard on 2 in bike accidents and 2 or 3 times in relatively minor ones Thankfull for the helmet in every accident. Had the one with intensive scapes on the helmet when i went down at approx 50 am still glad to this day they were not on my skull.
Other parts of me were hurt and for the most part have healed. I agree 100% with Larry Gude's siganature " Dress for the crash; not the ride. "

Older than most on here have been down hard on 2 in bike accidents and 2 or 3 times in relatively minor ones Thankfull for the helmet in every accident. Had the one with intensive scapes on the helmet when i went down at approx 50 am still glad to this day they were not on my skull.
Other parts of me were hurt and for the most part have healed. I agree 100% with Larry Gude's siganature " Dress for the crash; not the ride. "

I have been down hard 2 times many years ago. Both times in full gear. Nothing but minor injuries. Both were on race tracks and highest speed dropped was around 100-120 in a sweeper to the left. The gear had to be replaced of course. The slower crash I landed on my head and lost some hair but kept my head.

Good info guys, Thanks.
Although with the little one here now a bike will have to wait.

Roger that. Just dont let it wait forever. Sometimes I went years between bikes, but always managed to scrape one up now and again. As handy as you are, and as willing to learn, bikes that need work will be an option. Just make sure its new enough that parts are available, and popular enough so the same holds true. Friend of mine has a Honda CB-1. Cool bike, but they were only imported one year, and that makes information and parts a bugger to get.

Just make sure its new enough that parts are available, and popular enough so the same holds true.

Just 2 cents..

BMW promises factory support (parts) for 15 years.

Aftermarket, I don't think there is a single model you can't find parts for back to 1923.

But even crashed BMWs are priced like freaking unobtainium:1bdz:

But even crashed BMWs are priced like freaking unobtainium:1bdz:

Not so..


Both local dealers have a "Project Bikes" sales.. Where they keep the less than desirable bikes that they'll sell cheap.

I've seen one in Columbia (Bob's BMW) that was sold in three boxes. Think it went for less than $1000.

That and good deals out there on ALL makes of used bikes.. some people just need money, and need it NOW..

Lol try as you might guys but im never buying a BMW anything. Id rather ride a Harley BLAH!

Im more into sport bikes and open frame bikes. Id LOVE to grab a Ducati Monster!

Lol try as you might guys but im never buying a BMW anything. Id rather ride a Harley BLAH!

Im more into sport bikes and open frame bikes. Id LOVE to grab a Ducati Monster!

:lol: What do you think BMW builds?

Lol try as you might guys but im never buying a BMW anything. Id rather ride a Harley BLAH!

Im more into sport bikes and open frame bikes. Id LOVE to grab a Ducati Monster!

Do a google on K1300S or even better S1000RR

I wouldn't mind a Ducati myself.. but the S1000RR would probably outrun it.. for less money.

:lol: What do you think BMW builds?

Airplanes..

Do a google on K1300S or even better S1000RR

I wouldn't mind a Ducati myself.. but the S1000RR would probably outrun it.. for less money.

The S1000RR is one badaxe bike. the K1300S is nice too but might be a bit too refined for me.

Die offizielle S 1000 RR Website (http://www.s1000rr.com/#/theBike/)

Another Bike I want to get my hands on is the Aprillia RSV4
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:lol: What do you think BMW builds?

Do they make Ducati? I dont know these things?
All I know is there hasnt been a BMW I liked and I like the Monsters.

This is what I think about when you say BMW:
http://www.mikesworldtour.com/mikesworldtour/images/equipment/IMG_2397.JPG
Id rather have this:
http://www.encyclomoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/2007_ducati_monster_s4r_testastretta.jpg

Do they make Ducati? I dont know these things?
All I know is there hasnt been a BMW I liked and I like the Monsters.

This is what I think about when you say BMW:
http://www.mikesworldtour.com/mikesworldtour/images/equipment/IMG_2397.JPG
Id rather have this:
http://www.encyclomoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/2007_ducati_monster_s4r_testastretta.jpg

So you have no idea what bikes BMW builds, but you'd rather ride a Harley. :rolleyes:

Do they make Ducati? I dont know these things?
All I know is there hasnt been a BMW I liked and I like the Monsters.

This is what I think about when you say BMW:
http://www.mikesworldtour.com/mikesworldtour/images/equipment/IMG_2397.JPG
Id rather have this:
http://www.encyclomoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/2007_ducati_monster_s4r_testastretta.jpg

WOW.. BMW started making K bikes.. (3 and 4 cylinder) in 1983..

They kept the classic boxer for purists, and people that LIKE the ease of maintenance, the ride, and the durability of the boxer twin.

If you're looking for a streetfighter.. the K1200R..

Sport/ pure HP and speed.. the S1000RR (unadulterated, unrefined race developed), the K1300S 180 VERY refined HP.. ..

I think all those bikes are well out of my price range and power range.

Im looking for no more than 1000cc and even then im swaying more towards 500cc-750cc range. Im a beginner and ive only ridden 600cc and a 750cc once and both of those had MORE than enough power for me.

Who rides the bike with the muppet Animal on the back? Anyone from here? What about the killer rabbit? Wasnt that itsbob?

I think all those bikes are well out of my price range and power range.But a Ducati Monster S4R Testastretta is in your price/power range? :rolleyes:

What about the killer rabbit? Wasnt that itsbob?Aps

But a Ducati Monster S4R Testastretta is in your price/power range? :rolleyes:

Aps

Sorry I shouldnt have posted that pic persay. Its the first Monster pic I could find that work would let me see. I can afford a used older Monster but NOTHING brand new.
And ok on APS. I see him all the time then.

My price range is 4k tops and used obviously.

Surely it is an undisputed truth that cage drivers and passengers would be safer if they wore helmets.

If they wore helmets, they would sustain less injury, and suffer fewer deaths, especially when head trauma is involved.

We might then wonder why no states have laws requiring the wearing of helmets for occupants of vehicular cages. It seems the answer lies in statistics. Statistically, the injuries cagers suffer will be primarily non-head, whereas for bikers, head trauma is the primary cause of serious injuries.

If we look at the statistics for bikers who are in accidents with actual or potential head injury, we see that some groups are at high risk, and some groups are at low risk.

High risk groups include the young (under 21) and the inexperienced (owned a bike less than 2 years, and/or ride less than 5000 miles per year).

The group that excludes these individuals, are at low risk for any type of accident, especially those with real or potential head injuries, and that group logically should not be required by law to wear helmets any more than cage drivers.

I know of no statistics to support my claim, but I say a 17 year old cage driver is at greater risk for head injury than a thirty year old biker, with 12 years experience and over 100,000 bike miles logged in.

For those who are interested in such things, I started riding about 40 years ago, have over 100,000 bike miles logged in, and currently ride a Triumph Rocket III. In the last 12 months I have ridden over 8,000 miles around my home in Western Maryland. When I ride in Pennsylvania I have agreed with family members to always wear a helmet, and in exchange they have agreed, in the event of my death in a motorcycle accident, to put this on my tombstone:

“At least he was wearing a helmet.”

The sad truth is that most bikers killed in motorcycle accidents were wearing a helmet.
They stood little change against the cage that ran them over.

Sorry I shouldnt have posted that pic persay. Its the first Monster pic I could find that work would let me see. I can afford a used older Monster but NOTHING brand new.
And ok on APS. I see him all the time then.

My price range is 4k tops and used obviously.

how about a shadow for $2800?

Surely it is an undisputed truth that cage drivers and passengers would be safer if they wore helmets.

If they wore helmets, they would sustain less injury, and suffer fewer deaths, especially when head trauma is involved.

We might then wonder why no states have laws requiring the wearing of helmets for occupants of vehicular cages. It seems the answer lies in ....

It's illegal to wear a helmet when driving a car on the street in MD.
A helmet decreases your ability to hear and blocks your vision.


... but only in a car

I just love irony.

Then why is your shirt wrinkled?

We got off to such a good start, but being a fan of TJ I have to point out that your referenced quote is bogus (http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/The_democracy_will_cease_to_exist...(Quotation)).

How ironic

This is the helmet of my friend's son who wrecked his motorcycle yesterday in PA. He is in bad shape and has to have skin graft surgery later today, but he's going to be OK.

I will call the open face helmet corwds attention to the chinbar. I cant help but imagine this young man would be getting grafts to his face if not for that part of the helmet. K-jo, can you get us any more details about what other protective equipment he might have had? And locations of injuries. Any bit of that might help convince a rider to gear up more and prevent others from getting injured the same way.

I will call the open face helmet corwds attention to the chinbar. I cant help but imagine this young man would be getting grafts to his face if not for that part of the helmet. K-jo, can you get us any more details about what other protective equipment he might have had? And locations of injuries. Any bit of that might help convince a rider to gear up more and prevent others from getting injured the same way.

I think I can. Hold, please.

This is the helmet of my friend's son who wrecked his motorcycle yesterday in PA. He is in bad shape and has to have skin graft surgery later today, but he's going to be OK.

Glad he'll be ok.

He has no broken bones and no brain damage, thank goodness! But the skin grafts are being done on his left arm, hip, knee and (I think) leg. I've seen pics of him riding and he wasn't wearing any other gear besides his helmet, but I don't know for sure what he had on when he wrecked. I'll ask as soon as it feels OK to ask.

Roger that.

Glad he had his gear on. I wear full gear when ever I ride now. Back when I started it was just a helmet and boots.

I will call the open face helmet corwds attention to the chinbar. I cant help but imagine this young man would be getting grafts to his face if not for that part of the helmet. K-jo, can you get us any more details about what other protective equipment he might have had? And locations of injuries. Any bit of that might help convince a rider to gear up more and prevent others from getting injured the same way.
Glad he is doing well.
I would be interested in hearing his age, and riding experience in years and miles.

That's quite a head cage he was wearing. I sure hope it didn't contribute to the crash.
That's the kind that is illegal for cage drivers to wear, since they obstruct vision and hearing, a saftey hazard ya know.
I've been trying to figure out why it is more dangerous when on 4 wheels, but an improvement when on 2 wheels. Haven't figured that one out yet.
Any help out there? There must be a logical resaon.
I figure that it contributes to some accidents, but helps, so overall, it is a statistical improvement.
The statistics change, for experienced, mature riders.

I will call the open face helmet corwds attention to the chinbar. I cant help but imagine this young man would be getting grafts to his face if not for that part of the helmet. K-jo, can you get us any more details about what other protective equipment he might have had? And locations of injuries. Any bit of that might help convince a rider to gear up more and prevent others from getting injured the same way.

CRINGE

:yikes:

Another of my friends wrecked about 2 weeks about. She was going around a curve at about 40mph and just ran off the road. Nothing hurt on her but her pride. The metric cruiser was totaled. Luckily she missed the house.
She's had been driving 3 weeks, 2 days and 6 hours. Nearly 500 miles on the odometer.

I've had my most recent bike five weeks tomorrow, and have 3000 miles on it.
It's not for lookin, it's for ridin.

Glad he is doing well.
I would be interested in hearing his age, and riding experience in years and miles.

That's quite a head cage he was wearing. I sure hope it didn't contribute to the crash.
That's the kind that is illegal for cage drivers to wear, since they obstruct vision and hearing, a saftey hazard ya know.
I've been trying to figure out why it is more dangerous when on 4 wheels, but an improvement when on 2 wheels. Haven't figured that one out yet.
Any help out there? There must be a logical resaon.
I figure that it contributes to some accidents, but helps, so overall, it is a statistical improvement.
The statistics change, for experienced, mature riders.


Sure, its easy. Inside a cage, your vision and hearing are already obstructed, adding a helmet to that makes it about 5 times worse than on a bike, not just twice. Most cars also dont have the headroom for free movement of the head. Twisting to move your peripheral vision much harder in a car, easy on a bike. Ever drive a car on a racetrack wearing a helmet? There, its not so bad, but everyone is going in the same direction, at about the same speed.

Now, lets talk a hazard analysis. Those are run using a probability/severity matrix.

http://www.austrac.gov.au/elearning_amlctf_programcourse/images/content/diagram_risk_matrix_2.gif

The chances of fatal catastrophic head injury in a car, without other fatal injuries, are remote. You have that cage to protect you, after all. Compare that to the chances of a fatal head injury coming off a bike.

Sure, its easy. Inside a cage, your vision and hearing are already obstructed, adding a helmet to that makes it about 5 times worse than on a bike, not just twice. Most cars also dont have the headroom for free movement of the head. Twisting to move your peripheral vision much harder in a car, easy on a bike. Ever drive a car on a racetrack wearing a helmet? There, its not so bad, but everyone is going in the same direction, at about the same speed.

Now, lets talk a hazard analysis. Those are run using a probability/severity matrix.

http://www.austrac.gov.au/elearning_amlctf_programcourse/images/content/diagram_risk_matrix_2.gif

The chances of fatal catastrophic head injury in a car, without other fatal injuries, are remote. You have that cage to protect you, after all. Compare that to the chances of a fatal head injury coming off a bike.
Traumatic brain injury due to auto accident
One of the leading causes of death for people under 45 is TBI or traumatic brain injury, and the leading cause of TBI is from automobile accidents (http://www.foranlaw.com/resources/maryland-auto-accident-lawyer/traumatic-brain-injury-auto-accident.html).

Let me do some digging, although I find it very telling that it seems that %100 of the links that pop on that and related terms, are lawyers pages, as was your source, which, I might add, gave no references. Ah, this looks promising....no time now, but I will be back.

FARS Encyclopedia: Query - Step 2: Choose Variables to Use (http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/QueryTool/QuerySection/SelectFields.aspx)

Now, I do see here where motor vehicle accident is leading cause of accidental death for under 45, but I see no stats anywhere that break that down by injury in the crashes. Nor any stat that breaks down head injuries in unbelted drivers vs belted.

Death Statistics Tables (http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html)

While I would like to see the state law requiring helmets repealed, I realize the laws of physics requiring helmets will never be repealed. :lol:

That's quite a head cage he was wearing. I sure hope it didn't contribute to the crash.
That's the kind that is illegal for cage drivers to wear, since they obstruct vision and hearing, a saftey hazard ya know.
I've been trying to figure out why it is more dangerous when on 4 wheels, but an improvement when on 2 wheels. Haven't figured that one out yet.
Any help out there? There must be a logical resaon.
I figure that it contributes to some accidents, but helps, so overall, it is a statistical improvement.
The statistics change, for experienced, mature riders.

Have you ever worn a modern full-faced helmet? Vision restrictions are almost nil and they are at the bottom of your vision (caused by the chin bar) where your vision is not important for safety. As for hearing, I have to wear earplugs because I hear too much and it's bad for your hearing. I definitely hear more with a helmet on than I do in a car.

Have you ever worn a modern full-faced helmet? Vision restrictions are almost nil and they are at the bottom of your vision (caused by the chin bar) where your vision is not important for safety. As for hearing, I have to wear earplugs because I hear too much and it's bad for your hearing. I definitely hear more with a helmet on than I do in a car.

Especially when a fire truck rolls past blasting their horn. Next time that happens I swear I'm ripping off my helmet so I can stick my fingers in my ears. Assuming I'm stopped.:lol:

Have you ever worn a modern full-faced helmet? Vision restrictions are almost nil and they are at the bottom of your vision (caused by the chin bar) where your vision is not important for safety. As for hearing, I have to wear earplugs because I hear too much and it's bad for your hearing. I definitely hear more with a helmet on than I do in a car.
Well, you make a good argument for requiring their use in cages, it seems to me.
I wear a half helmet, and in a cage it seems to me there would no restriction of movement etc. Not only that, the passengers don't need mobility, vision, etc, they just need protection! Cage Passengers would be safer with a helmet than without. Seems to be a truism to me.
I had a full helmet on, but not when I was riding. Sure felt like a straight jacket to me.

I would never discourage anyone from wearing a helmet, cage or bike.

I see young guys on crotch rockets and they dang well better wear a helmet, they are going to wreck, it is just a matter of when and how bad. Shorts, tennis shoes, short sleeve shirts and a full face helmet, quite a sight.

Anyone who has been riding regularly, for many years, has seen every dumb move a cager can make, know their bike, know their brakes, and know their limits. The chances of them crashing are unlikely, and they should have a choice. That crap about being a burden on society is. . . crap.

I'm not against helmets, but I am against helmet laws, they are not effective.

I am insensed by the states that have mandatory laws for bikers, and are not even discussing the same laws for cagers. It defies common sense. It should at least be on the table, but it is not. It would be voted down because bikers are such a minority, but it should at least be on the table.

Well, you make a good argument for requiring their use in cages, it seems to me.

And I really don't care about that or anything else you said. I was pointing out that your comments on the visibility and hearing from helmets and the conjecture that it may have contributed to the accident were massively ignorant.

And I really don't care about that or anything else you said. I was pointing out that your comments on the visibility and hearing from helmets and the conjecture that it may have contributed to the accident were massively ignorant.Well, there is some reason why they are illegal in cages, and I was told that was it.

aps45819 told me this, sorry he was incorrect, sorry I repeated his error.

Now, can you tell us why they are illegal for use in cages?
That would be helpful.

Well, there is some reason why they are illegal in cages, and I was told that was it.

aps45819 told me this, sorry he was incorrect, sorry I repeated his error.

Now, can you tell us why they are illegal for use in cages?
That would be helpful.

No, because...:1bdz:

No, because...:1bdz:
I can never understand people who stick their nose into a conversation, then run for cover saying "I don't care."

I have to admit, I've been wondering how long it is that you wore a half helmet before switching to full face, since you know so much about both.

Well, there is some reason why they are illegal in cages, and I was told that was it.

aps45819 told me this, sorry he was incorrect, sorry I repeated his error.

Now, can you tell us why they are illegal for use in cages?
That would be helpful.

It makes it very difficult for the police to drag you out of your car and rap your skull with a night stick. Don't tell anyone else, it's top secret info.

Yes, I see.
Mum's the word.

It makes it very difficult for the police to drag you out of your car and rap your skull with a night stick. Don't tell anyone else, it's top secret info.

:doh:

I was repeating old info from my ABATE days

I can never understand people who stick their nose into a conversation, then run for cover saying "I don't care."

I have to admit, I've been wondering how long it is that you wore a half helmet before switching to full face, since you know so much about both.

Half helmets are for the half wits..

I wore one ONCE, and will never wear one again if I can help it.

I wear a flip up which is considered a VERY noisy helmet, but after wearing a half helmet it seems VERY quiet.

There is no way in hell if you are going over 45 or 50 that you can hear a damn thing in a half helmet unless you are sitting behind a barn door going down the road.

Half helmet is ok at least for the intial impact, but for the ensuing face slide on the asphalt not so good.

Of course it's real hard to look cool on a cruiser in a full face, but I think it would be much harder to look cool with my face ground into hamburger..

Some of my friends, and relatives, say anyone who rides a motorcycle is a halfwit.
Guess I'm in good company.

My argument is for choice.
Wear a Sherman tank if you want. That'll give you more protection that that flip up when a minivan plows into you.

I ride for comfort, not style. I wear my padded leathers in 80 degrees, 'cause I want to. It feels right.
I do take it off at 90. Gotta get that Kevlar.

Okay, so nothing amusing/odd about a full face helmet.
A full face hemet, with shorts and short sleves and tennis shoes, an odd sight.
In one case the rider was popping a wheelie on the main road in front of a strip mall, with over 50% of his skin showing. Bad judgement on top of bad judgement. An accident waiting to happen.
Looked like a plucked chicken gone nuts.

Okay, so nothing amusing/odd about a full face helmet.
A full face hemet, with shorts and short sleves and tennis shoes, an odd sight.
In one case the rider was popping a wheelie on the main road in front of a strip mall, with over 50% of his skin showing. Bad judgement on top of bad judgement. An accident waiting to happen.
Looked like a plucked chicken gone nuts.

Well there's always at least two ways to learn something like that. Listen to the voice of experience or live the experience.

I think it would be much harder to look cool with my face ground into hamburger..
:shrug: Can't decide whether or not that would be an improvement



:lol:

Some of my friends, and relatives, say anyone who rides a motorcycle is a halfwit.
Guess I'm in good company.

My argument is for choice.
Wear a Sherman tank if you want. That'll give you more protection that that flip up when a minivan plows into you.

I ride for comfort, not style. I wear my padded leathers in 80 degrees, 'cause I want to. It feels right.
I do take it off at 90. Gotta get that Kevlar.

Bottom line, every time you go out, your probablility of being in an accident increases..

If you take experience out of the mix, the more you ride the more probable you are that you are going to taste the asphalt.. You ARE going to hit the pavement sooner or later.. how you come out the other end is entirely up to you.

I've known people that have gone down at >60MPH and walked back to their bike, and caught a ride home.. I've also known ones who've gone down at LOOOW speed and CTB'd.

Totally your choice what outcome you'd prefer, as you are, after all, an adult.

itsbob If you take experience out of the mix, the more you ride the more probable you are that you are going to taste the asphalt.. You ARE going to hit the pavement sooner or later.. how you come out the other end is entirely up to you.Listen, we don't know each other, so it is presumptionus of me to ask if you are a moron, but it certainly is tempting.

"If you take experience out of the mix..."
What kind of assumption is this?????

If you take experience out of the mix. . . NO ONE would hold a motorcycle operators license, or any other, so no one would ride, so there would not be any motor vehicle accidents, cars and trucks included.The only way anyone is granted a drivers license is if they have experience. The govenment must think experience has value, even if you do not.


Bottom line: The more you ride, the more experience you have, the less likely you are to be involved in an accident, and the more likely it will be minimized.


You just lost all credibility with me, not that you care.

~ ~ ~ ~

Motorcycle riders aged below 40 are 36 times more likely (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_safety)to be killed than other vehicle operators of the same age.

Motorcycle riders aged 40 years and over are around 20 times more likely to be killed than other drivers of that same age.

BHN: In other words, if you are under age 40 and ride a motorcycle, you are nearly twice as likely to be killed in a motorcycle accident (compared to those over age 40). This has nothing to do with experience, JUST age.
Nothing to do with helmets, just age.
Age alone reduces your statistical odds on being killed in a motorcycle accident.
I will add that as more and more older riders, who have no previous motorcycle experience start riding, these numbers will change.

News flash for itsbob: Motorcycle riding exprience reduces deaths more effectively than helmets.
You really want to save live? Make a law that if you don't ride at least 5000 miles per year, you lose your license. That will save lives.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. If helmets are a good idea for older and experienced motorcycle riders, they are equally a good idea for young and inexperienced car drivers.

If your sales pitch is too good, we'll have have the prophylactic effect. That's were someone is so confident their protective gear will prevent accidents, they will take risks they normally would not.

~ ~ ~

Here's (http://www.easyrider.com/nhtsa.htm) a good article on motorcycle helmet use.



More (http://www.easyrider.com/fact_sheet.htm).

~ ~ ~ ~

If you want to start a real debate on helmet use, helmet laws, who and how they should be used, I'm here.
You tell all those dumb sh*t kids helmets are going to save their lives.
Helmets won't hurt them, all things considered, I mean yeah, a few will suffer more injury because they wore a full face helmet, but not many.
If I were a young dumb sh*t and had it to do all over I'd still wear a helmet.
Great idea for young dumb sh*ts.

You want to know a really bad idea. Some middle aged wanna be buying a 60hp two wheeled vehicle and given a license to drive the thing. Oh, but it's okay, they'll wear a helmet, so the'll be safe.
Helmets make you safe. Yeah, right.

Listen, we don't know each other, so it is presumptionus of me to ask if you are a moron, but it certainly is tempting.

"If you take experience out of the mix..."
What kind of assumption is this?????

If you take experience out of the mix. . . NO ONE would hold a motorcycle operators license, or any other, so no one would ride, so there would not be any motor vehicle accidents, cars and trucks included.The only way anyone is granted a drivers license is if they have experience. The govenment must think experience has value, even if you do not.


Bottom line: The more you ride, the more experience you have, the less likely you are to be involved in an accident, and the more likely it will be minimized.


You just lost all credibility with me, not that you care.

~ ~ ~ ~

Motorcycle riders aged below 40 are 36 times more likely (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_safety)to be killed than other vehicle operators of the same age.

Motorcycle riders aged 40 years and over are around 20 times more likely to be killed than other drivers of that same age.

BHN: In other words, if you are under age 40 and ride a motorcycle, you are nearly twice as likely to be killed in a motorcycle accident (compared to those over age 40). This has nothing to do with experience, JUST age.
Nothing to do with helmets, just age.
Age alone reduces your statistical odds on being killed in a motorcycle accident.
I will add that as more and more older riders, who have no previous motorcycle experience start riding, these numbers will change.

News flash for itsbob: Motorcycle riding exprience reduces deaths more effectively than helmets.
You really want to save live? Make a law that if you don't ride at least 5000 miles per year, you lose your license. That will save lives.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. If helmets are a good idea for older and experienced motorcycle riders, they are equally a good idea for young and inexperienced car drivers.

If your sales pitch is too good, we'll have have the prophylactic effect. That's were someone is so confident their protective gear will prevent accidents, they will take risks they normally would not.

~ ~ ~

Here's (http://www.easyrider.com/nhtsa.htm) a good article on motorcycle helmet use.



More (http://www.easyrider.com/fact_sheet.htm).

~ ~ ~ ~

If you want to start a real debate on helmet use, helmet laws, who and how they should be used, I'm here.
You tell all those dumb sh*t kids helmets are going to save their lives.
Helmets won't hurt them, all things considered, I mean yeah, a few will suffer more injury because they wore a full face helmet, but not many.
If I were a young dumb sh*t and had it to do all over I'd still wear a helmet.
Great idea for young dumb sh*ts.

You want to know a really bad idea. Some middle aged wanna be buying a 60hp two wheeled vehicle and given a license to drive the thing. Oh, but it's okay, they'll wear a helmet, so the'll be safe.
Helmets make you safe. Yeah, right.

You just entirely misinterpreted what he was saying. Read it again.

You want to know a really bad idea. Some middle aged wanna be buying a 60hp two wheeled vehicle and given a license to drive the thing. Oh, but it's okay, they'll wear a helmet, so the'll be safe.
Helmets make you safe. Yeah, right.

:killingme 60 hp
you must ride a Harley


FYI nobody has claimed helmets will "make you safe"
The concept is to provide some protection for your head.
You get to decide which parts of your head are important to you.
Some folks think that only a small portion at the top of their skull is an important part of their body while others think their entire head is important to their lifestyle.

:killingme 60 hp
you must ride a Harley


FYI nobody has claimed helmets will "make you safe"
The concept is to provide some protection for your head.
You get to decide which parts of your head are important to you.
Some folks think that only a small portion at the top of their skull is an important part of their body while others think their entire head is important to their lifestyle.
And some people just don't think.
They're called sheep.

I guess cage drivers don't value any part of their head.

Speaking of unthinking sheep, I see you're still carrying that bogus Jefferson quote.

Too many crashes with no helmet?

And some people just don't think.
They're called sheep.

I guess cage drivers don't value any part of their head.
Too many crashes with no helmet?

the cage, with seat belts and airbags, provides a lot more protection than a helmet :lol:

Do you really not understand that? :killingme

You really want to save live? Make a law that if you don't ride at least 5000 miles per year, you lose your license. That will save lives.



This is the ONLY thing you said that makes sense, but I don't think the motorcycle industry can take a hit of losing 90% of it's market.

There is a difference between Statistics, and Probablility, when you figure out the difference come back.

There is always the probablility of a someone hitting you, no matter your experience, or your age, or if you are wearing a helmet or not. This probability doesn't change, as your experience riding a motorcycle is seperate from the 90 year old driving a car that didn't see you.

Your experience also is not going to make the gravel or oil in a corner any less slippery.. nor is your experience going to make your skin and face withstand the grinding effect of the asphalt.

You can be the most experienced rider in the world, and have a million miles of experience but the asphalt will taste the same as the guy on his first rde. A LOT of things are not in your control when you are on your bike, and the only constant you have is the probability of what will happen.

Just the same as you driving your car. The 18 year old in Loveville is no more dead than the 58 year on Flat Iron Rd.. Experience and age were irrelevant in both.

This is the ONLY thing you said that makes sense, but I don't think the motorcycle industry can take a hit of losing 90% of it's market.

There is a difference between Statistics, and Probablility, when you figure out the difference come back.

There is always the probablility of a someone hitting you, no matter your experience, or your age, or if you are wearing a helmet or not. This probability doesn't change, as your experience riding a motorcycle is seperate from the 90 year old driving a car that didn't see you.

Your experience also is not going to make the gravel or oil in a corner any less slippery.. nor is your experience going to make your skin and face withstand the grinding effect of the asphalt.

You can be the most experienced rider in the world, and have a million miles of experience but the asphalt will taste the same as the guy on his first rde. A LOT of things are not in your control when you are on your bike, and the only constant you have is the probability of what will happen.

Just the same as you driving your car. The 18 year old in Loveville is no more dead than the 58 year on Flat Iron Rd.. Experience and age were irrelevant in both.
Do you actually ride a bike?

You think experience does not reduce my ability to avoid shale or oil in the first place, and adjust to control when I do hit it?

I know the difference between probability and statistics.

I know that in over half of all motorcycle deaths, the rider was wearing a helmet, so the helmet did nothing to reduce or prevent injury. Dead is dead.

I know that most accidents happen with inexperienced riders. Do you think that is an 'accident'? Inexperienced rider do not even know where the danger lies, so they take no precautions to avoid it. If you do not try to avoid it, it will probably happen.

If you are not in an accident, you do not need a helmet.
If you are young and/or inexperienced the probablity is high you will be in an accident.
If you are older or/more experienced the probability you will be in an accident is much lower, so the 'need' for a helmet is much lower.

Some of us old timers have been talking about these training courses they are offering. On the surface a very good idea, but we notice a trend to cause students to 'over think' the riding experience.
They suggest always riding with two or more bikes. With two riders with two different skill levels you are looking for trouble. Someone is going to be pushing their skill lever to keep up with their friend who is better. Been there, done that, had friends who crashed because of that.
Other examples, but never mind, don't want to discourage at lease SOME training.

When I started riding they were no training courses, no need to have an MC drivers license, no mandatory helmet law. And I've never crashed. I put a lot of miles on bikes under 250cc. No training course will match that. I am typical from my old H.S. gang, no make that 'group', don't want to give any wrong impressions.

You say "Bottom line, every time you go out, your probablility of being in an accident increases."
Yes, this is true, IF we disregard experience.

Here's what I tell people: 'The more you ride, the better driver you will become, and the less likly you will be involved in an accident'.
Do you want to tell me that is not true?

Statistically, the more miles you drive the more likely you will be involved in an accident.
The probability of being involved in an accident is reduced by riding more miles and gaining experience.


Please explain to me how I do not understand the difference betweeen statistics and probability.
Really, not a rhetorical comment. Explain to me how you are better versed on probability and statictics than I am.

Not all miles are equal.
A mile for an inexperienced rider is filled with danger, a mile for an experience rider is a pleasant cruise, except for the cage drivers of course.
Your claim is that all miles are equal. Hogwash.

~ ~ ~ ~

aps45819

No lawyer sites:

In the United States traumatic brain injury (TBI) is a leading cause of death for persons under age 45. TBI occurs every 15 seconds. Approximately 5 million Americans currently suffer some form of TBI disability. The leading causes of TBI are motor vehicle accidents (http://www.braininjury.com/injured.html), falls, and sports injuries.


Sixteen percent of all head injuries are caused by automobile accidents (http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0004-282X2002000200004&script=sci_arttext).

In the United States, head trauma (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/462642_3) is among the most important causes of morbidity and mortality in young people.

Head and neck injuries account for as many as 70% of all injuries sustained in automobile accidents, one of the most frequent types of accidents. (http://books.google.com/books?id=nQGC7f3u9-IC&pg=PA235&lpg=PA235&dq=%22automobile+accidents%22+%22head+trauma%22&source=bl&ots=wFKC5TV6bg&sig=DoqtLvVF7M7nEFtRFyFg0dtlPLQ&hl=en&ei=Zqx-SouDMIKUtgeCuOn7AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#v=onepage&q=%22automobile%20accidents%22%20%22head%20trauma%22&f=false)

Add: Okay, so that first reference says "motor vehicle", which would include motorcycles.

Do you actually ride a bike?

You think experience does not reduce my ability to avoid shale or oil in the first place, and adjust to control when I do hit it?

I know the difference between probability and statistics.

I know that in over half of all motorcycle deaths, the rider was wearing a helmet, so the helmet did nothing to reduce or prevent injury. Dead is dead.

I know that most accidents happen with inexperienced riders. Do you think that is an 'accident'? Inexperienced rider do not even know where the danger lies, so they take no precautions to avoid it. If you do not try to avoid it, it will probably happen.

If you are not in an accident, you do not need a helmet.
If you are young and/or inexperienced the probablity is high you will be in an accident.
If you are older or/more experienced the probability you will be in an accident is much lower, so the 'need' for a helmet is much lower.

Some of us old timers have been talking about these training courses they are offering. On the surface a very good idea, but we notice a trend to cause students to 'over think' the riding experience.
They suggest always riding with two or more bikes. With two riders with two different skill levels you are looking for trouble. Someone is going to be pushing their skill lever to keep up with their friend who is better. Been there, done that, had friends who crashed because of that.
Other examples, but never mind, don't want to discourage at lease SOME training.

When I started riding they were no training courses, no need to have an MC drivers license, no mandatory helmet law. And I've never crashed. I put a lot of miles on bikes under 250cc. No training course will match that. I am typical from my old H.S. gang, no make that 'group', don't want to give any wrong impressions.

You say "Bottom line, every time you go out, your probablility of being in an accident increases."
Yes, this is true, IF we disregard experience.

Here's what I tell people: 'The more you ride, the better driver you will become, and the less likly you will be involved in an accident'.
Do you want to tell me that is not true?

Statistically, the more miles you drive the more likely you will be involved in an accident.
The probability of being involved in an accident is reduced by riding more miles and gaining experience.


Please explain to me how I do not understand the difference betweeen statistics and probability.
Really, not a rhetorical comment. Explain to me how you are better versed on probability and statictics than I am.

Not all miles are equal.
A mile for an inexperienced rider is filled with danger, a mile for an experience rider is a pleasant cruise, except for the cage drivers of course.
Your claim is that all miles are equal. Hogwash.

~ ~ ~ ~

aps45819

No lawyer sites:

In the United States traumatic brain injury (TBI) is a leading cause of death for persons under age 45. TBI occurs every 15 seconds. Approximately 5 million Americans currently suffer some form of TBI disability. The leading causes of TBI are motor vehicle accidents (http://www.braininjury.com/injured.html), falls, and sports injuries.


Sixteen percent of all head injuries are caused by automobile accidents (http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0004-282X2002000200004&script=sci_arttext).

In the United States, head trauma (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/462642_3) is among the most important causes of morbidity and mortality in young people.

Head and neck injuries account for as many as 70% of all injuries sustained in automobile accidents, one of the most frequent types of accidents. (http://books.google.com/books?id=nQGC7f3u9-IC&pg=PA235&lpg=PA235&dq=%22automobile+accidents%22+%22head+trauma%22&source=bl&ots=wFKC5TV6bg&sig=DoqtLvVF7M7nEFtRFyFg0dtlPLQ&hl=en&ei=Zqx-SouDMIKUtgeCuOn7AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#v=onepage&q=%22automobile%20accidents%22%20%22head%20trauma%22&f=false)




:killingme

:popcorn:
Add: Okay, so that first reference says "motor vehicle", which would include motorcycles.

:killingme

:popcorn:

I know that in over half of all motorcycle deaths, the rider was wearing a helmet, so the helmet did nothing to reduce or prevent injury. Dead is dead.
What kind of helmet? Was the ONLY injury a blow to the head? The padded salad bowls count as a helmet for the statisitic guys, but only offer protection from a ticket.

If you are not in an accident, you do not need a helmet.
Brilliant :lol:
~ ~ ~ ~

aps45819

No lawyer sites:

In the United States traumatic brain injury (TBI) is a leading cause of death for persons under age 45. TBI occurs every 15 seconds. Approximately 5 million Americans currently suffer some form of TBI disability. The leading causes of TBI are motor vehicle accidents, falls, and sports injuries.


Sixteen percent of all head injuries are caused by "automobile accidents".
So 84% are caused by something else :shrug
In the United States, head trauma is among the most important causes of morbidity and mortality in young people.

Head and neck injuries account for as many as 70% of all injuries sustained in automobile accidents, one of the most frequent types of accidents.
Were they all wearing seat belts? Did they have front and side airbags?
.
I really don't care if you feel your head is not worth protecting. That's a decesion only you can make. Personally, I like my head the way it is so I wear a full face helmet.
The concept that "people in cars don't have to wear a helmet" is :bs:
That's the way it is and they will never be required to wear them as long as a women have a hair stye other than a Marine Hign'n'tight

aps45819
Here's our middle ground.

It's a different world we live in that I grew up in.
I rode for three seasons before I had a bike that would do the speed limit on an uphill grade.
Flash forward. I have a friend who's son just got his first bike. He got what his friends were getting. I asked my buddy what kind of bike. He is younger than me but was riding when 'you meet the nicest people on a Honda', hasn't riden in several decades. He said,'It's not big, a 600cc or something like that.' I asked him what the red line is, he didn't know. The son couldn't finance the bike himself (21 yo college student), but he managed to get some money together, and with a small personal loan paid cash, and because of that saved about $500 on insurance.
I told my friend he should have his son put all that money he saved into a good helmet, since his first bike turned out to be a gixxer (Suzuki GSX-R).

One of his friends recently dumpted his, trying to avoid a squirrel. I've heard lots of 'swerved to miss a deer', accidents, but a squirrel, new on on me. Doubt it. I'd bet money his speed exceeded his skill level.

With guys riding first bikes capable of speeds in excess of 150mph, they should make full face the minimum requirement for inexperienced riders.
That is not beyond common sense.

For me motorcycle riding is about the experience, and the half dome gives me all the protection I feel I need, and still an enjoyable experience.
I like the triple digits, but I know how and when.
Not to say I won't be struck by a meterite or cell phoned soccer mom.

BTW, in the last 12 months there have been at least 6 times I came around a blind curve, or over a hilltop and faced a deer standing in the middle of the road (two other time times they were on the move, so 8 total encounters).
Not even a skid mark, in full control the whole time.
That's not luck or statistics, that's experience.

BTW, in the last 12 months there have been at least 6 times I came around a blind curve, or over a hilltop and faced a deer standing in the middle of the road (two other time times they were on the move, so 8 total encounters).
Not even a skid mark, in full control the whole time.
That's not luck or statistics, that's experience.

:blahblah: