What if I never heard of Jesus?

What if I was born alone in a cell?

What if I never heard of Jesus?

What if I was born alone in a cell?

What if you smoked some good shiat this morning?

:yeahthat:

What if I never heard of Jesus?

What if I was born alone in a cell?You'd be the same moron you are now. :coffee:

What if I never heard of Jesus?

What if I was born alone in a cell?

wow. :popcorn:

People, its a what if thread, like.............what if I was born somebody else, then who would be me?

what if...(inhaling deeply) what were we talking about?

What if you smoked some good shiat this morning?

:killingme

What if pigs started to fly..

Would you actually do the things you said you would do?

What if D-O-G really spelled cat?

What if I never heard of Jesus?

What if I was born alone in a cell?

according to what people in this forum have said about Christianity, if you don't give yourself to Jesus then you're going to hell. Doesn't matter the circumstances whatsoever. Sounds nice :coffee:

I do have to ask how you were born alone. That'd be an amazing feat.

What if D-O-G really spelled cat?

LOL!! I was gonna use this! Revenge of the nerds 2

LOL!! I was gonna use this! Revenge of the nerds 2

I thought that was so funny!!!! It does make you ponder though even if you aren't stoned :lmao: :cool:

Depends, Are you telling me you never heard of him, but your concious tells you that you are a sinner and your condemed and you are in agreement with the way God sees you and you want to repent of your sin and be in a right standing with God?

If thats the case, I believe he will lead you to his Son as has happened with some very unlikely situtions in the past.

People dont go to hell for not knowing Jesus, they go to hell for their sin.

Jesus can raise people from the dead, he can certainly save you. The question is are you ready to agree with God?

You see you have a problem, you have heard the gospel and refused it, and based on your amount of knoweledge you will be condemed more than someone that has not. So hell will be worse for you.

Is there any sin so great that you just cant live without now, that your willing to spend an eternity in hell for?

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves.

Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?--unless indeed you fail to meet the test! <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
In order for the Good news to make sense there has to be bad news. The bad news is Gods standard for going to heaven is moral perfection, and none of us are good enough. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Rom <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:time Hour="15" Minute="10">3:10</st1:time> as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; Rom <st1:time Hour="15" Minute="11">3:11</st1:time> no one understands; no one seeks for God. Rom <st1:time Hour="15" Minute="12">3:12</st1:time> All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." <o:p></o:p>
The Bible statesHeb <st1:time Hour="9" Minute="27">9:27</st1:time> And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,The Apostle Paul states“Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."

<o:p></o:p>
If God judges you by his Law, the 10 commandments you will quickly see that he would find you guilty of breaking his Law. Have you:<o:p></o:p>
Always Kept God first in your life?<o:p></o:p>
Ever made up a god in your own mind that tolerates or overlooks your sin?<o:p></o:p>
Used the name of God as a cuss word or an exclamation that’s Blasphemy!<o:p></o:p>
Reserved one day a week for rest and worshiping God?<o:p></o:p>
Disobeyed your parents?<o:p></o:p>
Hated anyone, held a grudge or had a racist thought? God judges the intentions of your heart and considers that murder.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
1Jn 3:15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. <o:p></o:p>
Looked at a person with lust? Again God looks at the heart and considers that adultery!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Mat <st1:time Hour="17" Minute="27">5:27</st1:time> "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' <o:p></o:p>
Mat <st1:time Hour="17" Minute="28">5:28</st1:time> But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. <o:p></o:p>
Stolen anything ever, regardless of its value?<o:p></o:p>
Told a lie?<o:p></o:p>
Desired something that someone else has?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I am sure you’re just like the rest of us a liar, a thief, a murder and an adulterer at heart and that’s only 4 of the 10 commandments. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the <st1:place><st1:PlaceType>kingdom</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName>God</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 1Co <st1:time Hour="18" Minute="10">6:10</st1:time> nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the <st1:place><st1:PlaceType>kingdom</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName>God</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>. <o:p></o:p>
God is just and holy, and he can not let sin go unpunished. That’s the bad news! The good News is 2000 years ago a legal transaction took place. Jesus Christ, fully God fully man paid your fine and died on a cross, was buried and 3 days latter rose from the dead. He paid your fine so you wouldn’t have to. What you must do to receive that free gift though, is repent, turn from your sin and acknowledge it seeing you’re self as God sees you and surrendering your will to Him, ask forgiveness of that sin, and put your faith and trust solely in Jesus Christ. When Jesus said it is finished on the cross, the debt was paid in full there is nothing you can do to earn or merit Gods favor. Only having your sin put on Christ and by having Christ righteousness put on you can you be worthy in the sight of God. If you will do that God will give you a new heart with new desires the things you once loved you will now hate and the things you once hated you will now love. That’s called being born again.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the <st1:place><st1:PlaceType>kingdom</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName>God</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>." <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Christian Are you born again, is your life radically different than that of the world or not so much? Are you in the word everyday? Are you sharing your faith regularly? Is God #1 in your life? Do you love God and is he precious to you? Are you growing in Holiness? If this isn’t the case, your probably not back slidden you probably never slid forward. If not, think about you sin and think about the cross and it should break your heart. So many people are putting their faith in a repeating a prayer, walking an isle or signing a card and they are no different than before. If God gives you a new heart you cannot remain unchanged. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

what if you touched a cute young man/lady rear by accident

Jesus can raise people from the dead, he can certainly save you.
I saw Duckie do that on an episode of NCIS.

I've seen House do it dozens of times.

Pretty easy actually. :coffee:

What if I never heard of Jesus?

What if I was born alone in a cell?
You would intuit all truth.

By singular compemplation your mind would determine truth and reality.
Your mind would find criterea to differentiate fact from fantasy, illusion from subatance.
Your mind would require you to 'make sense of the world'.
Like Plato's cave, you may mistake shadows for reality, puppets for people, but over time these things would become clear to you.
Your mind would test your beliefs, to validate them.
When the only tool one has is the mind, all things are revealed.

Naturally, a defective mind leads to defective revelations.

Just don't trust the person in the cell next to you. You have not experienced what they have, your own experiences are certainly your reality, and in most cases your unadulterated reality , is Reality.

Don't seek the truth, let it seek you.
Just Be Here Now.

Well, according to some "experts" you're screwed because you don't know about all that is out there. That's how a religion gets members---scare 'em and they will come to you.

My opinion? If you think about others and how you can make the world better, chances are good you'll have a shot at getting in. One more point: If there's nothing "out there" that's OK too because you've worked to make this place better. It's not about knowledge and reciting verses--it's about doing something.

Depends, Are you telling me you never heard of him, but your concious tells you that you are a sinner and your condemed and you are in agreement with the way God sees you and you want to repent of your sin and be in a right standing with God?

If thats the case, I believe he will lead you to his Son as has happened with some very unlikely situtions in the past.

People dont go to hell for not knowing Jesus, they go to hell for their sin.

Jesus can raise people from the dead, he can certainly save you. The question is are you ready to agree with God?

You see you have a problem, you have heard the gospel and refused it, and based on your amount of knoweledge you will be condemed more than someone that has not. So hell will be worse for you.

Is there any sin so great that you just cant live without now, that your willing to spend an eternity in hell for?

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves.

Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?--unless indeed you fail to meet the test! <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
In order for the Good news to make sense there has to be bad news. The bad news is Gods standard for going to heaven is moral perfection, and none of us are good enough. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Rom <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:time Hour="15" Minute="10">3:10</st1:time> as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; Rom <st1:time Hour="15" Minute="11">3:11</st1:time> no one understands; no one seeks for God. Rom <st1:time Hour="15" Minute="12">3:12</st1:time> All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." <o:p></o:p>
The Bible statesHeb <st1:time Hour="9" Minute="27">9:27</st1:time> And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,The Apostle Paul states“Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."

<o:p></o:p>
If God judges you by his Law, the 10 commandments you will quickly see that he would find you guilty of breaking his Law. Have you:<o:p></o:p>
Always Kept God first in your life?<o:p></o:p>
Ever made up a god in your own mind that tolerates or overlooks your sin?<o:p></o:p>
Used the name of God as a cuss word or an exclamation that’s Blasphemy!<o:p></o:p>
Reserved one day a week for rest and worshiping God?<o:p></o:p>
Disobeyed your parents?<o:p></o:p>
Hated anyone, held a grudge or had a racist thought? God judges the intentions of your heart and considers that murder.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
1Jn 3:15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. <o:p></o:p>
Looked at a person with lust? Again God looks at the heart and considers that adultery!<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Mat <st1:time Hour="17" Minute="27">5:27</st1:time> "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' <o:p></o:p>
Mat <st1:time Hour="17" Minute="28">5:28</st1:time> But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. <o:p></o:p>
Stolen anything ever, regardless of its value?<o:p></o:p>
Told a lie?<o:p></o:p>
Desired something that someone else has?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I am sure you’re just like the rest of us a liar, a thief, a murder and an adulterer at heart and that’s only 4 of the 10 commandments. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the <st1:place><st1:PlaceType>kingdom</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName>God</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 1Co <st1:time Hour="18" Minute="10">6:10</st1:time> nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the <st1:place><st1:PlaceType>kingdom</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName>God</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>. <o:p></o:p>
God is just and holy, and he can not let sin go unpunished. That’s the bad news! The good News is 2000 years ago a legal transaction took place. Jesus Christ, fully God fully man paid your fine and died on a cross, was buried and 3 days latter rose from the dead. He paid your fine so you wouldn’t have to. What you must do to receive that free gift though, is repent, turn from your sin and acknowledge it seeing you’re self as God sees you and surrendering your will to Him, ask forgiveness of that sin, and put your faith and trust solely in Jesus Christ. When Jesus said it is finished on the cross, the debt was paid in full there is nothing you can do to earn or merit Gods favor. Only having your sin put on Christ and by having Christ righteousness put on you can you be worthy in the sight of God. If you will do that God will give you a new heart with new desires the things you once loved you will now hate and the things you once hated you will now love. That’s called being born again.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the <st1:place><st1:PlaceType>kingdom</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName>God</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>." <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Christian Are you born again, is your life radically different than that of the world or not so much? Are you in the word everyday? Are you sharing your faith regularly? Is God #1 in your life? Do you love God and is he precious to you? Are you growing in Holiness? If this isn’t the case, your probably not back slidden you probably never slid forward. If not, think about you sin and think about the cross and it should break your heart. So many people are putting their faith in a repeating a prayer, walking an isle or signing a card and they are no different than before. If God gives you a new heart you cannot remain unchanged. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

"Hell will be worse for you..."
Please Marie, give me your BIBLICAL (which must therefore be NT) basis for making such a claim.
Dante's Inferno does not count.
Where does Jesus teach things?

And how are we to consider Grace, in context of your statements.
Isn't Grace offered to ANY contrite soul who earnestly confesses, even seconds before death?

It seems to me you are writing your own scriptures.

What if I never heard of Jesus?
What if I was born alone in a cell?
What if Obama wasn't born? :yahoo:
What if scientists found life on other planets and they were all Democrats; would all Dems leave earth and go there??? :yahoo:
according to what people in this forum have said about Christianity, if you don't give yourself to Jesus then you're going to hell. Doesn't matter the circumstances whatsoever. Sounds nice :coffee:
I do have to ask how you were born alone. That'd be an amazing feat.
This only applies to those who can accept His teachings. Babies are in a different category and severely handicapped people are too.
(I sure do agree with your last statement; how would someone be born ALONE)? :shrug:
To answer your statement in a short & sweet way, if you are capable of hearing and understanding, you can't say that you've never heard of Jesus or at least God. He cannot send you to eternal punishment if you haven't been given a chance to accept or reject Him. He's not like that.
He has made Himself clearly known (as I've told Nucklesack repeatedly) through the creation, the Bible and just plain old common sense (but the latter is rarely found here on earth anymore).
Even if one doesn't have access to a Bible, TV or radio, God can and does "impress" His Spirit on people who might otherwise never hear of Him from other people. Some very good people have found God in the most remote and isolated places on earth without the aid of books or technology. God wants everyone to be saved and NO ONE to be lost. (2 Peter 3v9)

What if Obama wasn't born? :yahoo:
What if scientists found life on other planets and they were all Democrats; would all Dems leave earth and go there??? :yahoo:

This only applies to those who can accept His teachings. Babies are in a different category and severely handicapped people are too.
(I sure do agree with your last statement; how would someone be born ALONE)? :shrug:
To answer your statement in a short & sweet way, if you are capable of hearing and understanding, you can't say that you've never heard of Jesus or at least God. He cannot send you to eternal punishment if you haven't been given a chance to accept or reject Him. He's not like that.
He has made Himself clearly known (as I've told Nucklesack repeatedly) through the creation, the Bible and just plain old common sense (but the latter is rarely found here on earth anymore).
Even if one doesn't have access to a Bible, TV or radio, God can and does "impress" His Spirit on people who might otherwise never hear of Him from other people. Some very good people have found God in the most remote and isolated places on earth without the aid of books or technology. God wants everyone to be saved and NO ONE to be lost. (2 Peter 3v9)

Surely we can agree that over half of all the individuals who have ever lived, and undoubtedly a very large percentage of individuals currently living, have never heard of Jesus.

The 'black box' (theoretical) question is, what happens to them?
What does the Bible teach, consistent with your interpretations?
Where is the 'get out of jail, free' card, for those who haven't heard the Gospel?
Where does the Bible say 'If you haven't heard of Jesus, there are different rules.'?

Are you writing your own scripture, to fit the ocassion?

Surely we can agree that over half of all the individuals who have ever lived, and undoubtedly a very large percentage of individuals currently living, have never heard of Jesus.

The 'black box' (theoretical) question is, what happens to them?
What does the Bible teach, consistent with your interpretations?
Where is the 'get out of jail, free' card, for those who haven't heard the Gospel?
Where does the Bible say 'If you haven't heard of Jesus, there are different rules.'?

Are you writing your own scripture, to fit the ocassion?

Actually, when all is said and done in this lifetime, all people throughout the world will have heard the Gospel Message of Jesus - It has been prophesied. The continued missionary evangelism and modern-day communications technology will make it possible for the whole world to know:

Matthew Chapter 24, verses:

14: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23: Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25: Behold, I have told you before.
26: Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27: For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28: For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31: And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The appearance of the One World Government/ Religion antichrist system will mark what occurs in verse 15.

What if I never heard of Jesus?

What if I was born alone in a cell?



As long as you're not gay and don't get an abortion, you should be fine.

1) Surely we can agree that over half of all the individuals who have ever lived, and undoubtedly a very large percentage of individuals currently living, have never heard of Jesus.
2) The 'black box' (theoretical) question is, what happens to them?
3) What does the Bible teach, consistent with your interpretations?
4) Where is the 'get out of jail, free' card, for those who haven't heard the Gospel?
5) Where does the Bible say 'If you haven't heard of Jesus, there are different rules.'?
Are you writing your own scripture, to fit the ocassion?
1) You don't know that. Did you ask all of them if they knew Jesus?
What belief system do you follow, please?
Have you ever read the Bible? It seems you've missed the passages on "accountability". Everything about salvation hinges on accountability and that's where these questions get answered.
2) It depends on what they did with the truth they were given. I explained about the babies and handicapped folks earlier.
3) Accountability - Romans 1 v 18-20 and Romans 2 v 12-15.
4) Age of accountabliity - Deuteronomy 1 v 39, Isaiah 7 v 15.
5) Again, accountablitly - David and Bathsheba's child. 2 Samuel 12 v 23.

Actually, when all is said and done in this lifetime, all people throughout the world will have heard the Gospel Message of Jesus - It has been prophesied. The continued missionary evangelism and modern-day communications technology will make it possible for the whole world to know:

Matthew Chapter 24, verses:

14: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23: Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25: Behold, I have told you before.
26: Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27: For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28: For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31: And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The appearance of the One World Government/ Religion antichrist system will mark what occurs in verse 15.

As I said before, you are off the deep end.
Bizzaro world.
Do you take ALL ot the Biblical scriptures literally?
The universe is less than 6000 years old?

There is no possibility of doubt to any reasonable (one who places value on logic, and empirical evidence) person that adults are born and die in today's world and never hear the word Jesus, let along the gospel message.
NO REASONALBE DOUBT TO A REASONABLE PERSON.

n addition to this, we have the people who have lived the last (???) thousand years who never had such an experience.

To believe otherwise is to indicate that one is delusional.

1) You don't know that. Did you ask all of them if they knew Jesus?
What belief system do you follow, please?
Have you ever read the Bible? It seems you've missed the passages on "accountability". Everything about salvation hinges on accountability and that's where these questions get answered.
2) It depends on what they did with the truth they were given. I explained about the babies and handicapped folks earlier.
3) Accountability - Romans 1 v 18-20 and Romans 2 v 12-15.
4) Age of accountabliity - Deuteronomy 1 v 39, Isaiah 7 v 15.
5) Again, accountablitly - David and Bathsheba's child. 2 Samuel 12 v 23.

I 'don't know'? Are you talking to ME?
Well certainly a suitable response is 'You don't know I don't know!'
If I do not know the one, you certainly do not know the other!
How do you 'know' I did not ask all of them????? You have no more ability to know that, then I do to know not EVERYONE has heard of Jesus.

You suppose, I suppose. Which supposition is impossible? Neither!
I suppose that not EVERY living person has heard of Jesus. This is quite a reasonable thing to believe.
You suppose that EVERY living person has (or will, before death) have heard of Jesus. This is quite an UNREASONABLE thing to believe.
Ludicrous!

I have read the Bible cover to cover several times.
I have studied every book of the NT several times.
I have read numerouis commentaries.
My hard copy bible is the Scofield Refereence Bible.

You are certainly permitted to believe any thing you choose.
You are not free to make unbelievealbe statements as if they were 'facts'. By 'facts' in this case I mean beliefs generally considered as truthful.
Your statements are not 'facts' because they are recognized by individuals of a certain belief system only, additionally this b elief system is a minority view, not accepted by the general world population.
Do not argue to me that they are 'true', as that is not the point. They are only 'true' to a select minority of individuals.
Your beliefs are not substantiated by worldly knowledge, recognized by the vast majority of living persons.

You 'explained about the babies and handicapped'?
I saw no scripture!
I saw your opinion.

Are you God, and did not reveal it to us?

This explains accountablity, for all persons who have ever lived or will Live:
Romans I 18:20: [18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
[19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

I don't get it.

Or this:

Romans 2 12-15: [12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
[14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Your OT references are, not worth commenting on or even to take the time to copy and paste.

You have fringe beliefs, not even mainline Christain.

I 'don't know'? Are you talking to ME?
Well certainly a suitable response is 'You don't know I don't know!'
If I do not know the one, you certainly do not know the other!
How do you 'know' I did not ask all of them????? You have no more ability to know that, then I do to know not EVERYONE has heard of Jesus.

You suppose, I suppose. Which supposition is impossible? Neither!
I suppose that not EVERY living person has heard of Jesus. This is quite a reasonable thing to believe.
You suppose that EVERY living person has (or will, before death) have heard of Jesus. This is quite an UNREASONABLE thing to believe.
Ludicrous!

I have read the Bible cover to cover several times.
I have studied every book of the NT several times.
I have read numerouis commentaries.
My hard copy bible is the Scofield Refereence Bible.

You are certainly permitted to believe any thing you choose.
You are not free to make unbelievealbe statements as if they were 'facts'. By 'facts' in this case I mean beliefs generally considered as truthful.
Your statements are not 'facts' because they are recognized by individuals of a certain belief system only, additionally this b elief system is a minority view, not accepted by the general world population.
Do not argue to me that they are 'true', as that is not the point. They are only 'true' to a select minority of individuals.
Your beliefs are not substantiated by worldly knowledge, recognized by the vast majority of living persons.

You 'explained about the babies and handicapped'?
I saw no scripture!
I saw your opinion.

Are you God, and did not reveal it to us?

This explains accountablity, for all persons who have ever lived or will Live:
Romans I 18:20: [18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
[19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

I don't get it.

Or this:

Romans 2 12-15: [12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
[14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Your OT references are, not worth commenting on or even to take the time to copy and paste.

You have fringe beliefs, not even mainline Christain.
Well, well. I see many things about you from this post and others. Either you are not a true Christian or you are an MPD or you're a drama queen for sure from all that babeling and extremism.
I also see you arguing against some pretty straight forward Bible truths.
In red above: just because you've read it many times doesn't mean you know it or understand it.
The fact that you quote the KJV tells me even more about you.
Obviously you're ashamed of your belief system because I have asked you twice, which one you follow and you refuse to tell me.
And since when does a minority (or majority) view negate or even matter about what God says? His Word is truth even if no one believed it.
OK, let's leave the drama out of this forum and let's discuss what you have a problem with:
You don't see how Romans 1 speaks of accountability?
And no, not every living person will have heard of Jesus before they die because not all of them reach their age of accountability. See? Not that difficult to understand from Scripture...
You didn't see any Scriptures about babies? WOW! I really thought I quoted 2Samuel 12 v 23... :smack:
Let's start with your belief system please so I'll know where you're coming from.

Well, well. I see many things about you from this post and others. Either you are not a true Christian or you are an MPD or you're a drama queen for sure from all that babeling and extremism.
I also see you arguing against some pretty straight forward Bible truths.
In red above: just because you've read it many times doesn't mean you know it or understand it.
The fact that you quote the KJV tells me even more about you.
Obviously you're ashamed of your belief system because I have asked you twice, which one you follow and you refuse to tell me.
And since when does a minority (or majority) view negate or even matter about what God says? His Word is truth even if no one believed it.
OK, let's leave the drama out of this forum and let's discuss what you have a problem with:
You don't see how Romans 1 speaks of accountability?
And no, not every living person will have heard of Jesus before they die because not all of them reach their age of accountability. See? Not that difficult to understand from Scripture...
You didn't see any Scriptures about babies? WOW! I really thought I quoted 2Samuel 12 v 23... :smack:
Let's start with your belief system please so I'll know where you're coming from.
I am a Jefferson-Christian-Zen-Deist. There is a point at whcih these belief systems intersect, and that is where I stand. I have announced this in previous threads. As Jefferson said, I am a Christain sect of my own.

My use of KJV should give you a hint on my age. When I started studing the Bible that was the newest version available. I have tried many of the more 'contemporary' versions, and find them, lacking. The fact that you find it noteworthy to even mention KJV tells me something about your age, and inexperience.

You quote scripture, with no explanation, and believe it stands on it's own, to mean what you think it means. As if it only has one meaning. In over three thousand years everyone who has read Samuel, goes away with the same meaning you have?

Listen knucklehead, it is an obvious truth that many pesons will die well after the age of consent without ever having heard the word 'Jesus'.
It is an o bvious truth that all of those who died before Jesus was born, never heard the word Jesus, as in Christ the Saviour. Jesus was of course a common name.

You use term 'true Christian'.
Tell me, how will I know a 'true Christian'?
Does it matter what church they belong to, what doctrines they observe?

Are all of my good Chatlolic friends and relatives, who are true to the teachings of the Pope, 'true Christians".

How about my Amish friends? Do their beliefs coincide with your use of 'true Christian'.

I have some Seventh Day Adventist friends, who stay true to the teachings of the church, are they 'true Christian'?
My pentacostal friends, who practice speaking in tongues, do they qualify?

Who are these 'Christians', who are not 'true Christians', and what gives you the authority to classify others as 'true' or not?

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

As indicated in the highlighted portions above, it's apparent to me that God placed people where they are at, all over the world, not as a hinderance in seeking Him, but for the very reason of seeking Him. Thus in the matters of finding God through the instruments of creation (as was mentioned in Romans 1:18-20) and conscience (Romans 2:12-15), it is within these boundaries that grace can and will appear. And I would venture further to say this grace is available apart of the knowledge of the person of Jesus, but rather found in the principle of Jesus as demonstrated in the hearts of those who would otherwise not have known. C.S. Lewis referred to these people as 'anonymous Christians', who have demonstrated the characteristics of the Christian life without actually hearing the Name. That Name is hidden in their hearts.

What about sin? Paul says in Romans 3:20, "...by the Law is the knowledge of sin." Therefore, conversely, if a people do not have the Law, then there is no knowledge of sin, and sin therefore cannot be imputed on them. "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law." - Romans 4:15.


So it stands to reason that those who have no knowledge of God's laws are not going to be responsible for having to keep them. Jesus said, "But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." - Luke 12:48. The implication here is that God is going to fairly judge according to what a person knows or does not know. I find it hard to believe that God is going to judge anyone merely on the basis of being indoctrinated into the wrong religion or apart from a standing knowledge of the Law.

I am a Jefferson-Christian-Zen-Deist. There is a point at whcih these belief systems intersect, and that is where I stand. I have announced this in previous threads. As Jefferson said, I am a Christain sect of my own.
No wonder you say what you say. I'm not familiar with JCZD but it sure sounds like a contorted mess. IF you care to BRIEFLY explain it, I'll read it. IF not, that's ok too.

My use of KJV should give you a hint on my age. When I started studing the Bible that was the newest version available. I have tried many of the more 'contemporary' versions, and find them, lacking. The fact that you find it noteworthy to even mention KJV tells me something about your age, and inexperience.
Since the KJV came about in 1611, that would make you about 398 years old or more???
My inexperience? Ever hear of an "old fool"? You've apparently fallen for the lie of the KJ Only group if you think the newer ones are lacking. Some of the newer versions aren't "lacking" anything as long as you compare them to the Bible manuscript copies and not the KJV. The KJV is over flowing with mistranslations. I could give you a book of them but I'll let you stick with your flawed Shakespearean poetry.

You quote scripture, with no explanation, and believe it stands on it's own,
to mean what you think it means. As if it only has one meaning. In over three thousand years everyone who has read Samuel, goes away with the same meaning you have?
What I think it means? Ever heard of CONTEXT? Sure, some passages do have dual meanings but most do not. The Bible is NOT open to personal interpretations, contrary to popular belief.

Listen knucklehead, it is an obvious truth that many pesons will die well after the age of consent without ever having heard the word 'Jesus'.
It is an obvious truth that all of those who died before Jesus was born, never heard the word Jesus, as in Christ the Saviour. Jesus was of course a common name.
Don't bet on it Pops. It's true that the OT folks didn't know the NAME of the prophesied Messiah (Jesus) but, after the Resurrection, none of the (accountable) folks didn't know it.

You use term 'true Christian'.
Tell me, how will I know a 'true Christian'?
Does it matter what church they belong to, what doctrines they observe?
Are all of my good Chatlolic friends and relatives, who are true to the teachings of the Pope, 'true Christians".
How about my Amish friends? Do their beliefs coincide with your use of 'true Christian'.
I have some Seventh Day Adventist friends, who stay true to the teachings of the church, are they 'true Christian'?
My pentacostal friends, who practice speaking in tongues, do they qualify?
Who are these 'Christians', who are not 'true Christians', and what gives you the authority to classify others as 'true' or not?
Well Mr "I've read, studied the NT and Bible commentaries many times" and you don't know what a true Christian is??
A true Christian is one who believes in and follows the ONE true God by accepting Jesus into their life and lives the lifestyle of a Godly person. A lot of good people live a good lifestyle but have a different God & Jesus. :nono:

A true Christian is one who has the Holy Spirit in his life, testifying to the truth of God and believing it. This is why I say that, just because you've read the Bible many times, doesn't mean you know what it means. Unless you're saved, God "blocks" your understanding of certain parts of it.

The "primary" Bible truths are:
God is One but is revealed to us as Father, Son (Jesus) & Holy Spirit.
Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, Virgin born and sinless.
He is 100% God and 100% man.
He paid the price for everyones sins with one act; the crucifixion.
His Resurrection proves His Divinity and power over death (an act that no other "god" or person has done or ever will do).
He ascended back into Heaven, bodily, in front of many witnesses.
A person is saved by faith alone. Anyone can be saved by asking Jesus to forgive their sins and asking Him to take over their lives. The proof of salvation will be in their actions from then on.

Denomination does matter if it's teachings are contradictory to the Bible but there are some true Christians in ungodly denominations. (Why they stay if they are truly saved, I don't know).
Catholics, Amish, 7th Day and some Pentecostals have some serious doctrinal differences from Christianity. It's their belief in the "primary" Bible issues that will determine if they're true Christians or not. Also, there is such a thing as a "said faith" which means they say they're Christians but really aren't. Anyone can say that but it takes a true heart change to be a Christian. We can differ on "secondary" issues and still be Christians.

Jesus "gives me the authority to classify others as true or not". IF you've read the Bible cover to cover many times as you claim, you should have read about this. Your liberal sounding form of Oprah theology makes me think you're one of those "many ways to God" people and that is deadly wrong.
Maybe you'd care to explain your concept of God to me. I'd like to hear it my friend. :buddies:

"You've apparently fallen for the lie of the KJ Only group"

I actually prefer The 1591 Geneva Bible :-)

If it was good enough for the pilgrims its good enough for me.

Speaking of Rockin Bibles anyone check out the ESV study Bible I cant wait to get my hands on one of these. I half to wait to get it though as I still have to 2 other versions I bought I need to read first.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m3UG58U8I5T3J8 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m3UG58U8I5T3J8)

what if none of you existed and this post was never here and if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it does it make a sound? what came first the chicken or the egg or some creature that laid an egg and out came a chicken. HUH HUH HUH put that in your pipe and smoke it

what if none of you existed and this post was never here and if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it does it make a sound? what came first the chicken or the egg or some creature that laid an egg and out came a chicken. HUH HUH HUH put that in your pipe and smoke it

LOL

If we didn't exist - you wouldn't have stopped by.

On the other hand: What If we really don't exist and we are just a figment of your imagination and you are having hallucinations believing we are here when we are not? That's why you stopped by. Must be whatever you're smoking in your pipe. :whistle:

"You've apparently fallen for the lie of the KJ Only group"
I actually prefer The 1591 Geneva Bible :-)
If it was good enough for the pilgrims its good enough for me.
Marie, the quote feature is your friend...:howdy:
Pilgrims? Do you walk around in their garb too??? :faint:
what if none of you existed and this post was never here and if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it does it make a sound? what came first the chicken or the egg or some creature that laid an egg and out came a chicken. HUH HUH HUH put that in your pipe and smoke it
Hi newbie, and welcome.
If I didn't exist, we wouldn't have met and you'd be missing out on an awesome guy. :lmao:
Next, if a tree falls anywhere, it still makes noise even if no human is there to hear it.
Next, Which came first? The chicken; God made them with the ability to produce eggs.
Finally, I do not smoke a pipe or anything else.
Good questions; come back again soon...:buddies:

ItalianScallion Since the KJV came about in 1611, that would make you about 398 years old or more???

Here is yet another example of your inability to think clearly or logically.
I said “When I started studying the Bible that (KJV) was the newest version available.”.
Have someone who thinks logically tell you why your statement is nothing short of garbage. You give clear thinking Christians a bad name.

ItalianScallion Catholics, Amish, 7th Day and some Pentecostals have some serious doctrinal differences from Christianity.
Well, this says it all.

Catholics, Amish, 7th Day Adventists, and even some Pentecostals are not ‘true Christians’, since they have serious doctrinal differences from Christianity.
If their beliefs are different from Christianity, then they are not Christian. That’s what ‘different from’ means, for those such as yourself who are challenged by the English language.

We have yet another delusional individual, whose connection to reality is tenuous at best. One who claims to be Christian, while the majority of Christians are just fakers, belonging to “ungodly denominations”.

My Amish neighbor moved to Illinois, but comes back once or twice a year to visit family and stops by to say hello. He enjoys a good joke, and I will mention your comment to him.

Here is yet another example of your inability to think clearly or logically.
I said “When I started studying the Bible that (KJV) was the newest version available.”.
Have someone who thinks logically tell you why your statement is nothing short of garbage. You give clear thinking Christians a bad name.
First off, it was a joke Mr stick in the mud. Second, which statement of mine is garbage, since I made a bunch of them?

Catholics, Amish, 7th Day Adventists, and even some Pentecostals are not ‘true Christians’, since they have serious doctrinal differences from Christianity.
If their beliefs are different from Christianity, then they are not Christian. That’s what ‘different from’ means, for those such as yourself who are challenged by the English language.
We have yet another delusional individual, whose connection to reality is tenuous at best. One who claims to be Christian, while the majority of Christians are just fakers, belonging to “ungodly denominations”.
My Amish neighbor moved to Illinois, but comes back once or twice a year to visit family and stops by to say hello. He enjoys a good joke, and I will mention your comment to him.
I'm sorry that you're unable to grasp what I said. It's clear to most folks here. My theology is from the Bible, not from my own head so I can't be "delusional". How am I challenged by the English language"?
If you think that people who believe in doctrines that go against the Bible are Christians, you're delusional.

Yes, those poor delusional Amish, not following the Bible, just making things up out of their heads.
We should call them "The Wild bunch".

Yes, those poor delusional Amish, not following the Bible, just making things up out of their heads.
We should call them "The Wild bunch".

They can't earn the name "The Wild Bunch" until they all start riding Harley-Davidson motorcycles. That would be wild!