...he needs to find a way to keep Shaq healthy going into the playoffs.

If Shaq is in decent shape, the Cavs are NBA champs come June.

maybe. he's getting a step slow. how come Nash/Stoudamire/O'Neal wasn't enough to bring the Suns to the playoffs? That sounds absurd! Or did they make the playoffs? I think they were just short though.

Plus, Lebron is no D-Wade :coffee:

maybe. he's getting a step slow. how come Nash/Stoudamire/O'Neal wasn't enough to bring the Suns to the playoffs? That sounds absurd! Or did they make the playoffs? I think they were just short though.

Plus, Lebron is no D-Wade :coffee:

No, he is no Wade. LaBron is far superior.

I think it's a good question why things didn't go well in PNX. I think the answer is that they needed too much from Shaq. LaBron simply needs a few sure easy points down low along with some tough rebounds in the playoffs, not the 20/10 Phoenix needed and that he put out in LA and Miami when needed.

They have a chance, but they aren't prohibitive favorites in my book. I think the Lakers remain the class of the league, and if anyone can be considered the team to beat - it is them.

If we are to believe the hype, Shaq is in better shape than he has been in recent years. I guess we'll see. A healthy, fit Shaq certainly makes Cleveland a force to be reckoned with in the East.

On another note, I suspect the move to get Shaq means that Lebron is gone after this year and that Cleveland knows it. Just a hunch, but I guess we'll see about that as well.

They have a chance, but they aren't prohibitive favorites in my book. I think the Lakers remain the class of the league, and if anyone can be considered the team to beat - it is them.

If we are to believe the hype, Shaq is in better shape than he has been in recent years. I guess we'll see. A healthy, fit Shaq certainly makes Cleveland a force to be reckoned with in the East.

On another note, I suspect the move to get Shaq means that Lebron is gone after this year and that Cleveland knows it. Just a hunch, but I guess we'll see about that as well.

or that Lebron is gone if they can't get him a ring. they're getting into desperation mode.

They have a chance, but they aren't prohibitive favorites in my book. I think the Lakers remain the class of the league, and if anyone can be considered the team to beat - it is them.

If we are to believe the hype, Shaq is in better shape than he has been in recent years. I guess we'll see. A healthy, fit Shaq certainly makes Cleveland a force to be reckoned with in the East.

On another note, I suspect the move to get Shaq means that Lebron is gone after this year and that Cleveland knows it. Just a hunch, but I guess we'll see about that as well.

The Cavs didn't just add Shaq while not losing Ilgaukus.

Anthony Parker might prove to be THE big addition. JJ Hickson adds some beef.

My view is that they have basically been LaBron with no real help; a decent, rather typical NBA team with one super star. That was LA post Shaq and pre Gasol. LaBron has done better on his own than Kobe did.

Without Shaq they are a better team going into this season that was better positioned to deal with Orlando's rain of 3's. I woulda called them even money to make the finals sans Shaq.

No major injuries, I think them and Orlando are playing for all the marbles.

The Cavs didn't just add Shaq while not losing Ilgaukus.

Anthony Parker might prove to be THE big addition. JJ Hickson adds some beef.

My view is that they have basically been LaBron with no real help; a decent, rather typical NBA team with one super star. That was LA post Shaq and pre Gasol. LaBron has done better on his own than Kobe did.

Without Shaq they are a better team going into this season that was better positioned to deal with Orlando's rain of 3's. I woulda called them even money to make the finals sans Shaq.

No major injuries, I think them and Orlando are playing for all the marbles.

LeBron will probably also be helped by Jamario Moon, who is underrated IMO. I'm disappointed the Heat didn't resign him, since he was better than some of the crap they ended up keeping.

Boston is pretty solid though. They've got Allen/Pierce/Garnett along with a quality PG in that loser from UK. They just need a center, and while Davis may not be prototypical center size, I have a feeling they may start throwing him into the fold after he stepped up in a big way after Garnett went down. Plus the East is pretty small until you face Shaq and Howard.

Meanwhile, Orlando lost Turkoglu and while they got Vince Carter, they had to pay a pretty penny to get him. I don't know if they've actually upgraded their team at all. Atlanta could be interesting...they were a young team last year and just a year of experience could be all the difference for them.

Overall, the top 4 will probably be the same in the East...just possibly a different order.

The Cavs didn't just add Shaq while not losing Ilgaukus.

Anthony Parker might prove to be THE big addition. JJ Hickson adds some beef.

My view is that they have basically been LaBron with no real help; a decent, rather typical NBA team with one super star. That was LA post Shaq and pre Gasol. LaBron has done better on his own than Kobe did.

Without Shaq they are a better team going into this season that was better positioned to deal with Orlando's rain of 3's. I woulda called them even money to make the finals sans Shaq.

No major injuries, I think them and Orlando are playing for all the marbles.


I take back all the bad things i thought about you yesterday in the Kimbo thread jk..:killingme

I like where your head is, but I refuse to get my hopes up for any of my teams, I thought last year we had it in the bag and then got stomped by Orlando so...

I take back all the bad things i thought about you yesterday in the Kimbo thread jk..:killingme

I like where your head is, but I refuse to get my hopes up for any of my teams, I thought last year we had it in the bag and then got stomped by Orlando so...

Please, don't be taking back anything. I work hard for what I get! :lol:

See, Orlando was a lightning bolt, a college team that just happened over night. Howard didn't even much matter in the playoffs, remember? He was in foul trouble all the time. They just started raining threes and no one could stop them. You can't stop that. It's like college; if a so-so team is draining threes, they can beat anyone. Then, like a so-so team, the spigot got shut off at a bad time AND Howard showed his limitations.

So, if Parker plays to form as a solid perimeter D guy who can at least slow down the 3's some, then you can get 2nd team down low easy points with Ilgauskas, decent showings by Shaq and...

The most dominant player in the game.

LeBron will probably also be helped by Jamario Moon, who is underrated IMO. I was wondering about him. I don't know anything about him. I'm disappointed the Heat didn't resign him, since he was better than some of the crap they ended up keeping.

Boston is pretty solid though. They've got Allen/Pierce/Garnett along with a quality PG in that loser from UK. It would be great if they play well this year They just need a center, and while Davis may not be prototypical center size, I have a feeling they may start throwing him into the fold after he stepped up in a big way after Garnett went down. Plus the East is pretty small until you face Shaq and Howard.

Meanwhile, Orlando lost Turkoglu and while they got Vince Carter, they had to pay a pretty penny to get him. I don't know if they've actually upgraded their team at all. No, they didn't get better. They just threw their chemistry out the window Atlanta could be interesting...they were a young team last year and just a year of experience could be all the difference for them.

Overall, the top 4 will probably be the same in the East...just possibly a different order.

:buddies:

The Cavs didn't just add Shaq while not losing Ilgaukus.

Anthony Parker might prove to be THE big addition. JJ Hickson adds some beef.

My view is that they have basically been LaBron with no real help; a decent, rather typical NBA team with one super star. That was LA post Shaq and pre Gasol. LaBron has done better on his own than Kobe did.

Without Shaq they are a better team going into this season that was better positioned to deal with Orlando's rain of 3's. I woulda called them even money to make the finals sans Shaq.

No major injuries, I think them and Orlando are playing for all the marbles.

Well, let me ask you this. Do you think LeBron has finally realized that what he needs to do is TAKE THE BALL TO THE RIM - over and over and over and over? LeBron is unstoppable when he makes up his mind to get to the rim. If he ever accepts that he isn't Reggie Miller, and stops settling for perimeter jumpers, then he will be able to dominate games (most games) even more so than he does now. I saw signs last year that LeBron might be starting to understand this - I guess we'll see this year.

The problem with that is, he has to be willing to take even more of a beating, on a a night in night out basis, than he already does - and he already takes as much beating as anyone in the NBA (probably). When and if LeBron makes up his mind that he is going to take the ball to the rim every time, then he becomes the best player in the NBA - and that team, as it is constituted, becomes incredibly difficult to beat. Until then, I'll take Kobe and give you a little change back.

At this point, I'd still make the Lakers 6:5 or even 7:5 favorites against Cleveland in a possible finals match-up.

Please, don't be taking back anything. I work hard for what I get! :lol:

See, Orlando was a lightning bolt, a college team that just happened over night. Howard didn't even much matter in the playoffs, remember? He was in foul trouble all the time. They just started raining threes and no one could stop them. You can't stop that. It's like college; if a so-so team is draining threes, they can beat anyone. Then, like a so-so team, the spigot got shut off at a bad time AND Howard showed his limitations.

So, if Parker plays to form as a solid perimeter D guy who can at least slow down the 3's some, then you can get 2nd team down low easy points with Ilgauskas, decent showings by Shaq and...

The most dominant player in the game.

was that not the most ridiculous thing you have ever seen? they were lobbing them up 10 ft behind the line and banking them in...they couldn't miss them....it was disgusting...

or that Lebron is gone if they can't get him a ring. they're getting into desperation mode.

I don't see that Cleveland getting a ring this year would make LeBron more likely to stay. If anything, I think it would have the opposite effect - not having gotten one in Cleveland might help convince him to stay if it is a close call. But, generally speaking, I think he already has his mind made up and it isn't likely that anything is going to change it.

Well, let me ask you this. Do you think LeBron has finally realized that what he needs to do is TAKE THE BALL TO THE RIM - over and over and over and over? LeBron is unstoppable when he makes up his mind to get to the rim. If he ever accepts that he isn't Reggie Miller, and stops settling for perimeter jumpers, then he will be able to dominate games (most games) even more so than he does now. I saw signs last year that LeBron might be starting to understand this - I guess we'll see this year.

The problem with that is, he has to be willing to take even more of a beating, on a a night in night out basis, than he already does - and he already takes as much beating as anyone in the NBA (probably). When and if LeBron makes up his mind that he is going to take the ball to the rim every time, then he becomes the best player in the NBA - and that team, as it is constituted, becomes incredibly difficult to beat. Until then, I'll take Kobe and give you a little change back.

At this point, I'd still make the Lakers 6:5 or even 7:5 favorites against Cleveland in a possible finals match-up.

Partial agreement. While he is not the classic three shooter, he can get it done there. He is a legit perimeter shooter. He can win a game from outside.

As far as going to the hole, all he needs to do, if I am coaching, is do what he does now, go when it's there AND add to that threatening to go when it's not there AND dish to Shaq.

He does NOT need to get pounded. If it's not there then, by definition, Shaq is open; layup. The other guys are stuck; if they think he's gonna dish, he finishes. They think he's gonna finish after looking to dish, he dishes anyway. They think he's gonna finish after looking to dish and then finish, he dishes.

Or he pulls up. And then dishes. Or let it fly. Or dish...or...

Because of the physical dominance of James and Shaq, THAT is the problem.

was that not the most ridiculous thing you have ever seen? they were lobbing them up 10 ft behind the line and banking them in...they couldn't miss them....it was disgusting...

And it just never stopped. Until it stopped. :lol:

:buddies:
Moon is a scrappy player. Pretty solid defensively and can shoot from outside, which is exactly what you need when you've got guys like Lebron and Shaq to carry the load.

Well, let me ask you this. Do you think LeBron has finally realized that what he needs to do is TAKE THE BALL TO THE RIM - over and over and over and over? LeBron is unstoppable when he makes up his mind to get to the rim. If he ever accepts that he isn't Reggie Miller, and stops settling for perimeter jumpers, then he will be able to dominate games (most games) even more so than he does now. I saw signs last year that LeBron might be starting to understand this - I guess we'll see this year.

The problem with that is, he has to be willing to take even more of a beating, on a a night in night out basis, than he already does - and he already takes as much beating as anyone in the NBA (probably). When and if LeBron makes up his mind that he is going to take the ball to the rim every time, then he becomes the best player in the NBA - and that team, as it is constituted, becomes incredibly difficult to beat. Until then, I'll take Kobe and give you a little change back.

At this point, I'd still make the Lakers 6:5 or even 7:5 favorites against Cleveland in a possible finals match-up.
Like I was saying before, Lebron is no D-Wade. If he tried to play like D-Wade, he'd be amazing. D-Wade does exactly what Lebron NEEDS to do. Like you said, GO FOR THE RIM! Lebron has more distance on his shot than Wade, so he can nail the deep buckets more often...but if he was taking it to the rim, he'd make teams fear that more, there would be more fouls called (which would help Shaq), and he would have an easier time taking shots from outside if people are fearful he's going to take it to the hole every time.

And Lebron doesn't take as much of a beating as guys that always go to the rim (like Wade) or the big men that play inside all game.

I don't see that Cleveland getting a ring this year would make LeBron more likely to stay. If anything, I think it would have the opposite effect - not having gotten one in Cleveland might help convince him to stay if it is a close call. But, generally speaking, I think he already has his mind made up and it isn't likely that anything is going to change it.

If they don't get a ring with this cast of characters, Lebron will probably decide that winning a ring in Cleveland just isn't attainable. If he realizes that, he'll move on. If winning a ring can happen in Cleveland, why wouldn't he stay? He'd make more money and be in a location that he's been in his whole life. Win/win/win for him if they win it all this year. His goal is a championship and he'd be willing to make a little less money if he could get it. If he can win in Cleveland, no reason to go elsewhere.

If they don't get a ring with this cast of characters, Lebron will probably decide that winning a ring in Cleveland just isn't attainable. If he realizes that, he'll move on. If winning a ring can happen in Cleveland, why wouldn't he stay? He'd make more money and be in a location that he's been in his whole life. Win/win/win for him if they win it all this year. His goal is a championship and he'd be willing to make a little less money if he could get it. If he can win in Cleveland, no reason to go elsewhere.

This is one of the legit questions about LaBron.

Kobe, Jordan, Magic, Larry, if you want to be in that class, you don't leave. You build YOUR legacy in YOUR town. Kobe did the a tough thing, building a personal chapter in the GREAT Book of Lakers. However, that is not from scratch. Same for Magic and Bird.

Micheal took a never was team and built a legend.

LaBron, if he wants legend, stays in Cleveland and gets it done.

Like I was saying before, Lebron is no D-Wade. If he tried to play like D-Wade, he'd be amazing.

No one in their right mind would take Wade over LaBron.

:buddies:

Partial agreement. While he is not the classic three shooter, he can get it done there. He is a legit perimeter shooter. He can win a game from outside.

As far as going to the hole, all he needs to do, if I am coaching, is do what he does now, go when it's there AND add to that threatening to go when it's not there AND dish to Shaq.

He does NOT need to get pounded. If it's not there then, by definition, Shaq is open; layup. The other guys are stuck; if they think he's gonna dish, he finishes. They think he's gonna finish after looking to dish, he dishes anyway. They think he's gonna finish after looking to dish and then finish, he dishes.

Or he pulls up. And then dishes. Or let it fly. Or dish...or...

Because of the physical dominance of James and Shaq, THAT is the problem.

That's my point - his mindset should be to take the ball to the basket - that is the goal and first option. When the defense makes that impossible or overly difficult (like, when they commit 6 players to the paint to stop him), then he can dish and let his teammates have wide open looks from the perimeter. But, he should be letting them take those shots most of the time - that's what some of them are there for. There's no way LeBron should be taking 350+ 3 pointers - no way he should take more 3-pt attempts than Gibson.

But, it all starts with exploiting the incredible advantage that Cleveland has - LeBron's physical superiority. No one in the NBA can match it - no one has the combination of physical strength, size, speed, agility and ability to get vertical that he does. He may be the most dominant driver of the basketball ever (didn't get to watch a lot of earlier players, so won't comment definitively). When he settles for perimeter shots, he brings himself down closer to the level of his competition - he makes himself defendable - which he really isn't.

No one in their right mind would take Wade over LaBron.

:buddies:

I said Wade's playing style is better than Lebron. But Wade led the league in scoring, #3 in MVP voting (though his supporting cast paled in the comparison of Lebron and Kobe, so he was doubled far more often) and his defensive stats were among tops in the league. I think he was the first guard to ever get 100 steals and blocks or something. Maybe it was just the 100 blocks part. He had a few more FT attempted and assists, more steals, more blocks, and more points.

So why is it so hard to imagine someone taking Wade, who has a ring, over Lebron?

That's my point - his mindset should be to take the ball to the basket - that is the goal and first option. When the defense makes that impossible or overly difficult (like, when they commit 6 players to the paint to stop him), then he can dish .

OK, but you said:

he needs to do is TAKE THE BALL TO THE RIM - over and over and over and over?

That's two different things. On the one hand is go to the rim, no matter what, and try to draw a foul. Or driving and then let the play develop. You are saying drive every time and then react to what the D gives you, not just go to the hole every time and draw contact.

There is no reason to not take open three or easy pull ups in my book and I think Shaq lightens the load. A lot. Last night he went up for a three and lazered it to Shaq for an easy two.

If I am coaching, I want the defense thinking they HAVE to not give him he open three AND have to worry about the pull up AND have to worry about the drive AND have to worry about the dish.

:buddies:

OK, but you said:



That's two different things. On the one hand is go to the rim, no matter what, and try to draw a foul. Or driving and then let the play develop. You are saying drive every time and then react to what the D gives you, not just go to the hole every time and draw contact.

There is no reason to not take open three or easy pull ups in my book and I think Shaq lightens the load. A lot. Last night he went up for a three and lazered it to Shaq for an easy two.

If I am coaching, I want the defense thinking they HAVE to not give him he open three AND have to worry about the pull up AND have to worry about the drive AND have to worry about the dish.

:buddies:

Well, by take the ball to the rim, I don't necessarily mean finish every time. And of course, I don't mean LeBron gets the ball every time and walks it down the floor and goes straight to the rim - this is the NBA and teams adjust, so you can't do that every single play. I mean, until the defense devotes all necessary resources to stop him, his intention should be to take advantage of his greatest advantage and take the ball to the rim. If he finds that the Wizards have signed Bill Russell, Hakeem Olajuwon and Dikembe Mutumbo, and they are all waiting for him in the paint with tea and crumpets - then by all means dish the ball for an open look, or maybe on occasion step back and knock down the 17 footer.

Make the defense choose between being killed by good shooters getting open looks all day, or having to try to stop LeBron's drives 1 on 1 or 1 on 2 - and then end up with all their players fouling out.

OK, but you said:



That's two different things. On the one hand is go to the rim, no matter what, and try to draw a foul. Or driving and then let the play develop. You are saying drive every time and then react to what the D gives you, not just go to the hole every time and draw contact.

There is no reason to not take open three or easy pull ups in my book and I think Shaq lightens the load. A lot. Last night he went up for a three and lazered it to Shaq for an easy two.

If I am coaching, I want the defense thinking they HAVE to not give him he open three AND have to worry about the pull up AND have to worry about the drive AND have to worry about the dish.

:buddies:

It's not two different things. It's like what Wade does. You take it to the rim and if they double/triple, you dish to the wide open guy and give him an easy shot. James will often take shots with a hand in his face, or with a fade-away 3 pointer. Those are not high percentage shots. He'll make them more than most (probably the 30-40% range), but a guy taking a wide open shot is more likely to score than that.

It's not two different things. It's like what Wade does.


Who?



:lol:

I said Wade's playing style is better than Lebron. But Wade led the league in scoring, #3 in MVP voting (though his supporting cast paled in the comparison of Lebron and Kobe, so he was doubled far more often) and his defensive stats were among tops in the league. I think he was the first guard to ever get 100 steals and blocks or something. Maybe it was just the 100 blocks part. He had a few more FT attempted and assists, more steals, more blocks, and more points.

So why is it so hard to imagine someone taking Wade, who has a ring, over Lebron?

you are such a homer:killingme

you are such a homer:killingme

or maybe you are! I'm presenting stats and rings, all you guys are doing is saying Lebron is better because he's better. :shrug:

Lebron has more talent, but he hasn't reached his full potential yet because he is still learning the way to play the game to fully take advantage of all that talent.

or maybe you are! I'm presenting stats and rings, all you guys are doing is saying Lebron is better because he's better. :shrug:


Yeah. How else should we do it, by saying he's not? :lol:


Simple question; would you take Wade or James? That's all there is to it.

:buddies:

Yeah. How else should we do it, by saying he's not? :lol:


Simple question; would you take Wade or James? That's all there is to it.

:buddies:

Wade led the USA to the Olympic gold, led the Heat to an NBA championship, led the league in scoring and had the best statistical season of any NBA player last season, and I like him more since he's on the Heat. Sure there's some bias in me picking him, but he has done more than Lebron up to this point. Lebron is missing the bling. Until he gets it, he's just another Dan Marino (which isn't a bad thing either!).

Wade led the USA to the Olympic gold, led the Heat to an NBA championship, led the league in scoring and had the best statistical season of any NBA player last season, and I like him more since he's on the Heat. Sure there's some bias in me picking him, but he has done more than Lebron up to this point. Lebron is missing the bling. Until he gets it, he's just another Dan Marino (which isn't a bad thing either!).

Fine. I got LaBron. Let's play! :buddies:

Fine. I got LaBron. Let's play! :buddies:

1 on 1? that's a mismatch! Lebron is too tall. :mad:

1 on 1? that's a mismatch! Lebron is too tall. :mad:

No, no. Me and James, you and Wade. Winners. To eleven, win by 2, best of 7. Hits the rim, take it back.

:buddies:

No, no. Me and James, you and Wade. Winners. To eleven, win by 2, best of 7. Hits the rim, take it back.

:buddies:

Ok. I'll cover Lebron. :coffee:

Ok. I'll cover Lebron. :coffee:

If you can cover him, then my dreams of victory may well have just been shattered... :jameo:

or maybe you are! I'm presenting stats and rings, all you guys are doing is saying Lebron is better because he's better. :shrug:

Lebron has more talent, but he hasn't reached his full potential yet because he is still learning the way to play the game to fully take advantage of all that talent.

you are presenting stats and rings...i'm presenting the facts...LEbron is better..

but if you need references I give you the last second of Game 2 vs. Orlando...

you are presenting stats and rings...i'm presenting the facts...LEbron is better..

but if you need references I give you the last second of Game 2 vs. Orlando...

yeah, if not for that shot of all shots, it would have been a much worse series for Lebron and his Cavs. That was an MJ moment. I didn't say he didn't have more talent. He is clearly the most gifted athlete in the NBA. But he is still learning his game. Just wait til he puts it all together.

...he needs to find a way to keep Shaq healthy going into the playoffs.

If Shaq is in decent shape, the Cavs are NBA champs come June.
They'll lose again. Too much hype and Hollywood and not enough focus.

I also think the Wizards make the playoffs this year. Not sure how far they'll make it but they'll make it.:lol: