Link (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20091008_Faith-healing_parents_charged_in_death_of_infant_son.html)

Posted on Thu, Oct. 8, 2009


Faith-healing parents charged in death of infant son
By MENSAH M. DEAN
Philadelphia Daily News

deanm@phillynews.com 215-854-5949

On the last day of Kent Schaible's life, his parents and pastor intensely prayed over his 32-pound body, which, unbeknown to them, was ravaged by bacterial pneumonia.

When the 2-year-old boy finally died at 9:30 p.m. Jan. 24 inside the family's Northeast Philadelphia home, the pastor called a funeral director to take the boy's remains to the Philadelphia Medical Examiner's Office.

At no time that day, nor in the week-and-a-half prior, did Herbert and Catherine Schaible seek medical treatment for their son despite his sore throat, congestion, liquid bowel movements, sleeplessness and trouble swallowing, Assistant District Attorney Joanne Pescatore said in court yesterday.

"All it would have taken is a simple visit to a doctor for antibiotics or Tylenol, maybe, to keep this child alive," she said during the couple's preliminary hearing.

After the two attorneys representing the Schaibles argued for their innocence, Municipal Judge Patrick Dugan held them for trial on charges of involuntary manslaughter, conspiracy to commit involuntary manslaughter and endangering the welfare of a child.

"When you look at this case, it's obvious that what you have are loving parents who also appear to be misguided," Dugan told the couple. "Your child needed medical care. As parents, that's what your duty is, and that's why you are here in court today."

This is a tough one for me. While I truely want to support a parents right to raise their child as they wish, and I want to respect other religions...this stuff is so sad. Simple medical attention could have saved this little boy. I want to shake the sh** out of these parents sometimes.. I believe that many of them actually believe they are doing what is best..and I think that parents should have the right to do what they believe is best..but..this is just a tough one....

I heard this on the radio this morning...

A farmer is in Iowa during a flood. The river is overflowing. Water is surrounding the farmer’s home up to his front porch. As he is standing there, a boat comes up. The man in the boat says, “Jump in, and I’ll take you to safety.”

The farmer crosses his arms and says stubbornly, “Oh no thanks, I put my trust in God.” The boat goes away. The water rises to the second story. Another boat comes up. The man says to the farmer, who is now at the second floor window, “Hurry, jump in. I’ll save you.”

The farmer again says, “Oh no thanks, I put my trust in God.”

The boat goes away. Now the water is inching over the roof. As the farmer stands on the roof, a helicopter comes over, and drops a ladder. The pilot yells down to the farmer, “I’ll save you. Climb the ladder.”

The farmer yells back, “Oh no thanks, I put my trust in God.”

The helicopter goes away. The water continues to rise and sweeps the farmer off the roof into the swiftly moving water. Unfortunately, he drowns.

The farmer goes to heaven. God sees him and says, “What are you doing here?”

The farmer says, “I put my trust in you, and you let me down.”

God says, “What do you mean, let you down? I sent you two boats and a helicopter!”

This is a tough one for me. While I truely want to support a parents right to raise their child as they wish, and I want to respect other religions...this stuff is so sad. Simple medical attention could have saved this little boy. I want to shake the sh** out of these parents sometimes.. I believe that many of them actually believe they are doing what is best..and I think that parents should have the right to do what they believe is best..but..this is just a tough one....

It is a tough one. For myself I firmly believe in God but I also believe (as Malice's story illustrates) that we have doctors and medicines for a reason so my baby would have been in being treated.

I do not think this is a tough call at all. Parents have a right to determine their children's medical treatment, not the government.

And there are no buts about it.

While I do not agree with the parents' decision, I also have no interest in giving the government any more control over how we raise our children than what they already have. In fact, I don't even want them to have THAT much control.

I do not think this is a tough call at all. Parents have a right to determine their children's medical treatment, not the government.

And there are no buts about it.

While I do not agree with the parents' decision, I also have no interest in giving the government any more control over how we raise our children than what they already have. In fact, I don't even want them to have THAT much control.

I agree and as horrible as it sounds, it is natural selection.... the way nature is intended to work.

I agree and as horrible as it sounds, it is natural selection.... the way nature is intended to work.

Hopefully the parents get "naturally selected".

Hopefully the parents get "naturally selected".
That's not how it works. They remove themselves from the gene pool.

The farmer says, “I put my trust in you, and you let me down.”

God says, “What do you mean, let you down? I sent you two boats and a helicopter!”

:lmao:

I do not think this is a tough call at all. Parents have a right to determine their children's medical treatment, not the government.

And there are no buts about it.

While I do not agree with the parents' decision, I also have no interest in giving the government any more control over how we raise our children than what they already have. In fact, I don't even want them to have THAT much control.

Even when how the parents raise their children harms the children?

Even when how the parents raise their children harms the children?


I think that's why she said "THERE ARE NO BUTS ABOUT IT".

More interesting is what the parents are thinking about all this. They asked God to heal their child. God said "no".

Do you suppose their faith took a beating, or are they okay with being denied? Like, maybe there's a higher purpose and they accept it? Or maybe they feel they didn't pray hard enough?

More interesting is what the parents are thinking about all this. They asked God to heal their child. God said "no".

Do you suppose their faith took a beating, or are they okay with being denied? Like, maybe there's a higher purpose and they accept it? Or maybe they feel they didn't pray hard enough?
That is always what I hear in cases of unanswered prayers... "God took him/her home for a reason." and they leave it at that.

That is always what I hear in cases of unanswered prayers... "God took him/her home for a reason." and they leave it at that.

It is what it is, as they say. :coffee:

More interesting is what the parents are thinking about all this. They asked God to heal their child. God said "no".

Do you suppose their faith took a beating, or are they okay with being denied? Like, maybe there's a higher purpose and they accept it? Or maybe they feel they didn't pray hard enough?



It's possible they thought that there's a higher purpose for the kids death.


Personally, I'd need a little more convincing.



Like for instance, I've never denied my kids medicine because them being sick is "God's Will". (If it was God's will that people remain sick, he wouldn't have given us the wherewithal and brain-power to create medicine in the first place). The way I see it, if I thwart God's will by giving my kid peniscillin, God can simply pick a night to drop an asteroid on my house and thwart MY will. There's pretty much nothing I can do about an asteroid turning half my house into a smoking hole.



That said, I agree with you on the "Its not the government's business" concept. Unless there was an active murder involved, this is nothing more than a violation of the parent's constitutially protected 1st amendement rights.

The way I see it, if I thwart God's will by giving my kid peniscillin, God can simply pick a night to drop an asteroid on my house and thwart MY will. There's pretty much nothing I can do about an asteroid turning half my house into a smoking hole.

"Oh yeah? We'll see how you like this, Mr. Smarty Pants..."

:lol:

Wirelessly posted (Change we can believe in!: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.7) 320x240; VZW; Motorola-Q9c; Windows Mobile 6.0 Standard)

Their pastor was there. It is evident that they sought guidance from the person they trusted the most. If anyone deserves to be charged it is the pastor who led the parents to make the wrong decision.

As Malice's parable points out, who are these people to decide that medical care is not something given to us by God?

This is clearly a case of religious persecution. The parents did not show ill intent on their child, they just believe their faith would heal him, hence they seek help of their minister.
How about prosecuting those who willfully kill their unborn children out of conveniece, conceived because of their irresponsible sexual behavior?

As Malice's parable points out, who are these people to decide that medical care is not something given to us by God?

And who is anyone to say that it is?

More interesting is what the parents are thinking about all this. They asked God to heal their child. God said "no, your're too damned stupid to raise children."

Do you suppose their faith took a beating, or are they okay with being denied? Like, maybe there's a higher purpose and they accept it? Or maybe they feel they didn't pray hard enough?

:fixed:Either way, it's their fault. Not religious enough or just plain negligent.

God can simply pick a night to drop an asteroid on my house and thwart MY will.

But will it be an indestructible asteroid?




































:killingme

And who is anyone to say that it is?

That's why it's called "faith".

:fixed:Either way, it's their fault. Not religious enough or just plain negligent.

We don't know that. Maybe it WAS God's will that this child die. God allows people to die every single day, sometimes in horrific ways.

True story:

My ex-husband's great uncle fought a long battle with cancer - went on for several years. On the day he left the hospital after a checkup showing he was finally cancer-free, and pretty much giving him a clean bill of health, he was hit by a car and killed. As he was crossing the street to get to the hospital parking lot to go home.

So maybe when your number's up, your number's up and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

There is more to the story:

Francis Carmen, Catherine Schaible's attorney, said that the couple's decision to forgo medical attention was not due to their religion, but because they thought Kent had a cold.

"The commonwealth wants to use [the Schaible's] religious beliefs as a self-fulfilling prophecy that, somehow, because they are different and because they exercise religious beliefs that are not necessarily in line with the majority of us," he said, "that is the cause of them failing to recognize that this child was as ill as he was."

Hoof, on behalf of Herbert Schaible, said that his client did everything in his power to care for his son in the days before he died - feeding him and giving him liquids.

"He cared for his child and thought his child was getting better," Hoof told reporters.

When asked why he did not call a doctor, he said: "He never said that he would not take the child to a doctor in his statement. He never said that."

---------------------------------------------
There has always been an underlying hatred by the govt for those who aren't obedient to them as god. Their arrogance considers themselves as all knowing and all powerful.
There is no other option than obedience.
That is why we have the First Amendment(supposedly?).

The only remaining question is
Why aren't doctors arrested and prosecuted for between 100,000 to 200,000 deaths caused annually ,directly related to the side effects of prescription drugs. ?
They are experts at falsely claiming it was due to "complications" from the underlying sickness.
We can tolerate 100,000+ deaths but not one from a Christian family???

So when should the government step in? When parents starve their kids? When they break their bones and beat them? I don't really see how denying medical care is any different than murdering your child.

So when should the government step in? When parents starve their kids? When they break their bones and beat them? I don't really see how denying medical care is any different than murdering your child.

There is a difference between actively causing harm and merely allowing nature (or God, if you will) to take it's course. Denying medical care is very different than murdering your child.

There is a difference between actively causing harm and merely allowing nature (or God, if you will) to take it's course. Denying medical care is very different than murdering your child.

So passively killing your child is ok but actively doing it is not?

So passively killing your child is ok but actively doing it is not?

That would be your opinion. And you are not the child's parent. You get to make decisions regarding your kids, and other parents get to make decisions regarding theirs.

That would be your opinion. And you are not the child's parent. You get to make decisions regarding your kids, and other parents get to make decisions regarding theirs.

Well, my opinion is that passively killing a child is just as bad as actively doing it.

So when should the government step in?

The govt has already stepped in by giving "blanket immunity" to the drug cartels
and allowing the complete denial of true preventative medicine(proven natural therapies) that boost natural immunity that would keep a lot of people from getting sick in the first place and labeling it all as "unorthodox medical treatment" They have a monopoly and do not hesitate to legally enforce it to the maximum.

If this family is guilty of any thing it may be "poor judgement"
Many families have lost loved ones due to not obtaining "medical treatment" early enough. Does that make them guilty of manslaughter??
The only thing this family did different is admitting they prayed over their child.
We can't have that, now can we.?

Well, my opinion is that passively killing a child is just as bad as actively doing it.



It is your opinion that the child was "passively killed" at all.

In the parents opinion they were praying, and therefore they were "Actively" trying to save the kid.

That would be your opinion. And you are not the child's parent. You get to make decisions regarding your kids, and other parents get to make decisions regarding theirs.

So not feeding my kid because "God will provide" is ok?

It is your opinion that the child was "passively killed" at all.

In the parents opinion they were praying, and therefore they were "Actively" trying to save the kid.

Right. And we see how well that worked! :yay:

Right. And we see how well that worked! :yay:



:shrug:

Hindsight = 20/20

Well, my opinion is that passively killing a child is just as bad as actively doing it.
Exactly... you make your own choices based on your opinions and your opinions do not necessarily agree with the opinions of others. So who gets to decide what is right? New York is now outlawing cupcakes at school functions, does that mean they now get to take your kids away because you baked them cupcakes one weekend?

Right. And we see how well that worked! :yay:

Why isn't your concern and focus on the 100,000+ being killed annually instead
of this one isolated incident?????

This family is not going to continue on in their "killing" like the drug cartels are.

Exactly... you make your own choices based on your opinions and your opinions do not necessarily agree with the opinions of others. So who gets to decide what is right? New York is now outlawing cupcakes at school functions, does that mean they now get to take your kids away because you baked them cupcakes one weekend?

My point was if it's ok for parents to raise their children as they please, why is there a Social Services? In your opinion, do you think parents should be able to do whatever they want to their child? Where is the line drawn? Is there even a line at all?

My point was if it's ok for parents to raise their children as they please, why is there a Social Services? In your opinion, do you think parents should be able to do whatever they want to their child? Where is the line drawn? Is there even a line at all?
From everything I've gathered over the years, Social Services tends to truly only intervene in extreme circumstances. In fact, they'll remove a kid from a perfectly healthy, happy foster environment just to return them to a parent that is fresh out of rehab and "promises" to behave and "promises" to spend the gov't dole on the kid and not booze or drugs. Social Services is not designed nor funded to show up at my house and check to see if my kid's cold is really a deadly Pneumonia virus.

A few years back, Kain and I got into a knock down drag out hilacious fight on here because she is of the belief low-grade fevers should be eradicated and I'm of the believe that they can be the body's natural defense and should be monitored but are not necessarily grounds for panic.

Who gets to make the call as to who is right and who is wrong? Should it be legislated?

A few years back, Kain and I got into a knock down drag out hilacious fight on here because she is of the belief low-grade fevers should be eradicated and I'm of the believe that they can be the body's natural defense and should be monitored


Low grade fevers are a natural immune system response. The elevated temperature makes the bodies lymphatic system more fluid(like warming syrup makes it flow easier). The lymphatic system is what cleans the infection and contaminants out of the body and recognizes the infection and builds a natural defense. More and more doctors are recommending that children be allowed to "suffer" through their early ear infections instead of antibiotics for this very reason. Children with terrible recurring ear infections (to include loss of hearing) have been shown to have been placed on multiple antibiotics and the body never has an opportunity to build its own immunity.

Low grade fevers are a natural immune system response. The elevated temperature makes the bodies lymphatic system more fluid(like warming syrup makes it flow easier). The lymphatic system is what cleans the infection and contaminants out of the body and recognizes the infection and builds a natural defense. More and more doctors are recommending that children be allowed to "suffer" through their early ear infections instead of antibiotics for this very reason. Children with terrible recurring ear infections (to include loss of hearing) have been shown to have been placed on multiple antibiotics and the body never has an opportunity to build its own immunity.

I agree, but Kain would kick your marine azz if she were still here.

A few years back, Kain and I got into a knock down drag out hilacious fight on here because she is of the belief low-grade fevers should be eradicated and I'm of the believe that they can be the body's natural defense and should be monitored but are not necessarily grounds for panic.

Who gets to make the call as to who is right and who is wrong? Should it be legislated?

I agree with you on the fever thing. I believe there IS a time when someone should step in and protect children from parental harm/neglect/whatever you want to call it. Who draws the line? And who determines right and wrong? Good question.

What about the story in the news a few years ago about the baby who died because his parents didn't provide proper nutrition. I think they were vegan and fed him apple juice or something crazy. That's neglect. How is that different from denying medical care for an obviously sick child? Because of religion?

I agree, but Kain would kick your marine azz if she were still here.

This Marine Azz has had it's share of kickings and has built up a pretty good
immunity. I do have a tendency to absorb the first few kickings, then I respond
in kind.

I agree with you on the fever thing. I believe there IS a time when someone should step in and protect children from parental harm/neglect/whatever you want to call it. Who draws the line? And who determines right and wrong? Good question.

What about the story in the news a few years ago about the baby who died because his parents didn't provide proper nutrition. I think they were vegan and fed him apple juice or something crazy. That's neglect. How is that different from denying medical care for an obviously sick child? Because of religion?
And thats the barometer to use. If Society has deemed something as neglect, it doesnt get a pass because of the Parents religion. Otherwise this allows Religion to overrule the will of Society. This is also the way the Supreme Court has ruled on it when similiar cases have come before it.

I agree with you on the fever thing. I believe there IS a time when someone should step in and protect children from parental harm/neglect/whatever you want to call it. Who draws the line? And who determines right and wrong? Good question.

What about the story in the news a few years ago about the baby who died because his parents didn't provide proper nutrition. I think they were vegan and fed him apple juice or something crazy. That's neglect. How is that different from denying medical care for an obviously sick child? Because of religion?

I agree with your concern and what seems to be a needless loss of a child's life. But long ago I have gotten away from the the concept of "micro-managing" every isolated event the news makes a big deal of while the real serious issues are being ignored. Child protective services in Florida has lost thousands of children, many to violent foster families who took on multiple children because they needed the money or they were pedophiles. There is big money from the federal govt for every child taken by social services. It has become out of control. Just like the education system gets "special ed" funding for every child placed on ritalin. One school in Virgina placed 50% of their boys on Ritalin. That is where the real child abuse is taking place. Not in a Christian family praying over their sick child.

That's why it's called "faith".

Then why can't people have faith that God will heal their child?

:razz:

Wouldn't this be a great conversation to have over beers?

My point was if it's ok for parents to raise their children as they please, why is there a Social Services? In your opinion, do you think parents should be able to do whatever they want to their child? Where is the line drawn? Is there even a line at all?

These people did not "do" anything to their child. They did not beat him. They did not refuse to feed him. They did not abandon him.

They simply took an alternate healing route - one, I might add, that many people devoutly believe works. Just because YOU do not agree with it doesn't make it wrong.

I agree with you on the fever thing. I believe there IS a time when someone should step in and protect children from parental harm/neglect/whatever you want to call it. Who draws the line? And who determines right and wrong? Good question.

What about the story in the news a few years ago about the baby who died because his parents didn't provide proper nutrition. I think they were vegan and fed him apple juice or something crazy. That's neglect. How is that different from denying medical care for an obviously sick child? Because of religion?

Do you want other people telling you how to raise your children?

Yes or no.

These people did not "do" anything to their child. They did not beat him. They did not refuse to feed him. They did not abandon him.

They simply took an alternate healing route - one, I might add, that many people devoutly believe works. Just because YOU do not agree with it doesn't make it wrong.

I am not refusing to give my child food, I just believe devoutly that if god wanted my child to eat he would provide.

I am not refusing to give my child food, I just believe devoutly that if god wanted my child to eat he would provide.

:twitch:

I am not refusing to give my child food, I just believe devoutly that if god wanted my child to eat he would provide.

Well, great. Then you should sit there with your mouth open and wait for God to fill it for you. :yay:

:twitch:

Thank you. It is crazy. Why? Because we live in a society based on standards. You don't pray a cut into healing you put a ####ing bandaid on it cause it makes sense.

:twitch:

That's how you can tell when someone realizes they've lost their argument: they start delving off into the absurd.

These people did not "do" anything to their child.

Exactly! They did not provide medical care which would have prevented the death of their toddler.


And to answer your other question. If I was so delusional as to think praying would save my toddler from bacterial pneumonia, YES I would want someone to slap me upside the head and make sure my baby received the proper medical attention.

:neener:

I am not refusing to give my child food, I just believe devoutly that if god wanted my child to eat he would provide.

Then practice what you preach. Next time you are hungry don't prepare any food or lift that fork to your mouth. God will provide for you just like you want him to provide for your child!!! Lead by example, one of great faith!

After all, God wasted his time giving us a brain, or arms, or legs or the ability to work or a natural instinct to care and protect our offspring.

Then practice what you preach. Next time you are hungry don't prepare any food or lift that fork to your mouth. God will provide for you just like you want him to provide for your child!!! Lead by example, one of great faith!

After all, God wasted his time giving us a brain, or arms, or legs or the ability to work or a natural instinct to care and protect our offspring.

Sorry sorry, I should have put, :sarcasm:

Thank you. It is crazy. Why? Because we live in a society based on standards. You don't pray a cut into healing you put a ####ing bandaid on it cause it makes sense.

Do you want the government telling you how to raise your children?

Yes or no.

AND do you want the government telling you what health care path you must take?

Yes or no.

And to answer your other question.

So you DO want other people telling you how to raise your kids?

I will be sure to remember that.

Do you want the government telling you how to raise your children?

Yes or no.

AND do you want the government telling you what health care path you must take?

Yes or no.

Sorry, I don't sit around with tin foil hats like the rest of you. So both of these questions are irrelevant.

So you DO want other people telling you how to raise your kids?

I will be sure to remember that.

You do that. :yay:

And to answer your other question. If I was so delusional as to think praying would save my toddler from bacterial pneumonia, YES I would want someone to slap me upside the head and make sure my baby received the proper medical attention.

:neener:
On the last day of Kent Schaible's life, his parents and pastor intensely prayed over his 32-pound body, which, unbeknown to them, was ravaged by bacterial pneumonia.

When the 2-year-old boy finally died at 9:30 p.m. Jan. 24 inside the family's Northeast Philadelphia home, the pastor called a funeral director to take the boy's remains to the Philadelphia Medical Examiner's Office.

At no time that day, nor in the week-and-a-half prior, did Herbert and Catherine Schaible seek medical treatment for their son despite his sore throat, congestion, liquid bowel movements, sleeplessness and trouble swallowing, Assistant District Attorney Joanne Pescatore said in court yesterday.

On Jan. 13 or 14, Kent started showing symptoms of illness that at times improved but generally grew worse until his death on Jan. 24, his parents said in their statements.

" 'He was moody and demanding; you couldn't please him,' " Det. Buckley said, quoting from Catherine Schaible's statement.

Hoof, on behalf of Herbert Schaible, said that his client did everything in his power to care for his son in the days before he died - feeding him and giving him liquids.

"He cared for his child and thought his child was getting better," Hoof told reporters.


It does not sound like they were ignoring him or not nurturing him... they made the decision to tend to him at home without doctor intervention.

It does not sound like they were ignoring him or not nurturing him... they made the decision to tend to him at home without doctor intervention.

Shush. When she has children, we are green-lighted to tell her how to raise them and what to do with them, and criticize her if she doesn't follow our instructions. We can even feel sorry for her children if we are so inclined. :yay:

Shush. When she has children, we are green-lighted to tell her how to raise them and what to do with them, and criticize her if she doesn't follow our instructions. We can even feel sorry for her children if we are so inclined. :yay:

Are you SS? If not, you can pack sand. :biggrin:

Shush. When she has children, we are green-lighted to tell her how to raise them and what to do with them, and criticize her if she doesn't follow our instructions. We can even feel sorry for her children if we are so inclined. :yay:
Well, now that you bring it up. How healthy can it be raising babies and toddlers around all of that animal poop? Chickens and sheep and goats pooping everywhere! :yikes:

It does not sound like they were ignoring him or not nurturing him... they made the decision to tend to him at home without doctor intervention.

Ok. I still have my opinion. :shrug:

Well, now that you bring it up. How healthy can it be raising babies and toddlers around all of that animal poop? Chickens and sheep and goats pooping everywhere! :yikes:

You mean I shouldn't keep the kids locked in the chicken coop? :ohwell:

Ok. I still have my opinion. :shrug:

And they had their opinion. I do not believe one little bit they had any belief that their choice would result in the death of their son.

Are you SS? If not, you can pack sand. :biggrin:

Are YOU SS?

Then I guess you can do that same, little missy. :razz:

And they had their opinion. I do not believe one little bit they had any belief that their choice would result in the death of their son.

OK.

Are YOU SS?

Then I guess you can do that same, little missy. :razz:

Well, I can voice my opinion all I want, and you can do the same. Neither of us can TELL someone else how to raise their children though. :smile:

Well, I can voice my opinion all I want, and you can do the same. Neither of us can TELL someone else how to raise their children though. :smile:

You can indeed TELL people how to raise their kids. They probably won't listen to you and it won't mean a hill of ####, but you can certainly tell them.

You can indeed TELL people how to raise their kids. They probably won't listen to you and it won't mean a hill of ####, but you can certainly tell them.

Well, when I have kids you can tell me how to raise them and I'll ignore you. :huggy:

Well, when I have kids you can tell me how to raise them and I'll ignore you. :huggy:

You better not ignore me or I'll call you an unfit parent and wonder why someone hasn't taken your kids from you so they can get proper care.

Whaddaya think about that, Miss Smarty?

You can indeed TELL people how to raise their kids. They probably won't listen to you and it won't mean a hill of ####, but you can certainly tell them.
I had a woman telling me how to raise my daughter a few years back. She did not approve of certain things I let the kid get away with. She like to point out how perfect her 15 year old was vs my "mouthy" 5 year old...

I didnt listen to her.

Today, my mouthy 5 year old is now a mouthy 13 year old in advanced classes,

her perfect little 15 year old angel is now all growed up and in jail for car theft and trying to run from the police.

although Ive never reminded her of her words back then, She wont even look at me in church. :killingme

You better not ignore me or I'll call you an unfit parent and wonder why someone hasn't taken your kids from you so they can get proper care.

Whaddaya think about that, Miss Smarty?

What do I think? I don't really care. :shrug:

her perfect little 15 year old angel is now all growed up and in jail for car theft and trying to run from the police.

This is why I never criticize other parents anymore or try to tell them what to do. Every single time I've done it, one of my kids does something ignorant and I have to eat crow. It's bad karma.

I had a woman telling me how to raise my daughter a few years back. She did not approve of certain things I let the kid get away with. She like to point out how perfect her 15 year old was vs my "mouthy" 5 year old...

I didnt listen to her.

Today, my mouthy 5 year old is now a mouthy 13 year old in advanced classes,

her perfect little 15 year old angel is now all growed up and in jail for car theft and trying to run from the police.

although Ive never reminded her of her words back then, She wont even look at me in church. :killingme

ok ok ok

But what kind of beer?

ok ok ok

But what kind of beer?




bcp seems like an "Ol' Milwaukee" or "Schaeffer's" kinda guy to me.

bcp seems like an "Ol' Milwaukee" or "Schaeffer's" kinda guy to me.

Schaeffers... Was that the one with the bear?

Schaeffers... Was that the one with the bear?

Not that I'm aware of.

This is the one I'm talking about:


http://cache.gifts.com/photos/opd/E/N/S/3/ENS3M9SYTL2R4LRDPVJ9.jpg

Not that I'm aware of.

This is the one I'm talking about:


http://cache.gifts.com/photos/opd/E/N/S/3/ENS3M9SYTL2R4LRDPVJ9.jpg

The one i was thinking of with the bear was Hamm's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamm's_Beer_bear)

:buddies: