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02-03-2004, 06:57 PM
<div align="center"><table border="1" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" bordercolor="#111111" bgcolor="#C9C0A7" width="414" height="66"><tr><td background="http://somd.com/news/inmyopinion/little_back.gif" width="56"><img src="http://somd.com/news/inmyopinion/trr.gif" width="56" height="56"></td><td width="358"><font face="Impact" color="#000000" size="6">In My Opinion</font><font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="3"><i><br><b> by Trevor Bothwell</b></i></td></tr></table></div>
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David Kay, who resigned last week as chief U.S. weapons investigator in Iraq, came to the conclusion recently that "we are very unlikely to find large stockpiles of weapons. I don't think they exist."

Predictably, the Bush-lied-us-into-war crowd considers this proof that President Bush knew full well that Saddam Hussein didn't possess weapons of mass destruction, but dragged the country into war anyway.

On the contrary, Kay reported last June his suspicions that he would find chemical and biological weapons rather quickly. These suspicions were gleaned largely from interviews with Iraqi scientists and international intelligence agencies, all of which believed Saddam possessed these weapons.

That weapons stockpiles have not yet been found in Iraq should not so clearly indicate that Bush knowingly lied about their existence as it should point out that he -- not to mention Great Britain, France, Russia, Germany, and the United Nations Security Council -- fell victim to the same inaccurate intelligence information as did Mr. Kay. In fact, last Monday (January 26) David Kay told Tom Brokaw, "I think if anyone was abused by the intelligence, it was the president of the United States rather than the other way around."

Now that all indications seem to be pointing to John Kerry gaining his party's nomination for president, it will be interesting to watch the seemingly distant hopefuls -- not to mention other liberals like Ted Kennedy who have already slung accusations Bush's way regarding WMD -- to see to what lengths they'll go to try to spin Kay's remarks into further proof that Bush is a lying liar.

But just for the record, here are what prominent Democrats have had to say about the existence of Saddam's weapons programs over the years (since the war was drummed up in Tax-is, after all):

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction." -- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.

"(Saddam Hussein) will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has 10 times since 1983." -- Sandy Berger, national security adviser to President Clinton, Feb. 18, 1998.

"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction program." -- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Tom Daschle and John Kerry, among others, Oct. 9, 1998.

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -- Rep. Nancy Pelosi, Dec. 16, 1998.

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- John Rockefeller (D-W. Va.), ranking minority member of the Intelligence Committee, Oct. 10, 2002.

"We know that (Hussein) has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." -- Former V.P. Al Gore, during a speech in September 2002.

And finally...

"We have known for many years [many years!] that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Ted Kennedy, Sept. 27, 2002.

"I agree with President Bush -- he has said that Saddam Hussein is evil. And he is. (Hussein) is a vicious dictator and a documented deceiver. He has invaded his neighbors, used chemical arms and failed to account for all the chemical and biological weapons he had before the Gulf War. He has murdered dissidents and refused to comply with his obligations under U.N. Security Council Resolutions. And he has tried to build a nuclear bomb. Anyone who believes in the importance of limiting the spread of weapons of mass killing, the value of democracy, and the centrality of human rights must agree that Saddam Hussein is a menace. The world would be a better place if he were in a different place other than the seat of power in Baghdad or any other country. So I want to be clear. Saddam Hussein must disarm. This is not a debate; it is a given." -- Former Vermont Governor Howard Dean, February 2003, during a speech at Drake University.

"There's no question that ... there have been such contacts (between Iraq and al Qaeda). It's normal. It's natural. These are a lot of bad actors in the same region together. They are going to bump into each other. They are going to exchange information. They're going to feel each other out and see whether there are opportunities to cooperate. That's inevitable in this region, and I think it's clear that, regardless of whether or not such evidence is produced of these connections, that Saddam Hussein is a threat." -- Gen. Wesley Clark, Sept. 26, 2002, testifying before the House Armed Services Committee.

"We did not empower the president to do regime change," -- John Kerry on "Meet the Press," after supporting legislation in 2002 specifically citing regime change in Iraq.

For purposes of full disclosure, I've never thought the president's decision to invade Iraq should have hinged so heavily on the existence of weapons of mass destruction, if for no other reason than the failure to find them would provide the current fodder Democrats are now using to paint him as a warmonger. However, President Bush is fighting a just war, removing a brutal dictator who has manufactured chemical and biological weapons, used them against his neighbors and his own people, and contributed to the volatility of an unstable Middle East.

That said, keep this list handy once the debates heat up and the Democrats' television ads begin to air in more frequency as we draw ever nearer the November election. Then decide for yourselves which candidates are committed to keeping us safe, and which are merely committed to keeping a job.
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<center><a href="http://www.therightreport.com/articles/InMyOpinion/myopinion_home.htm"><b>In My Opinion Archives</b></a></center>
Trevor Bothwell is editor of <a href="http://www.therightreport.com/"> The Right Report</a> and and is a Townhall.com book reviewer. He is also co-founder of <a href="http://www.thepoliticaldivide.com/">The Political Divide</a>, a new political blog site. He is a former elementary school teacher and college instructor.</font>

vraiblonde
02-03-2004, 07:13 PM
Trevor, I loved your column but we've already established that Democrats all have Alzheimer's disease. The ones running for office don't remember what they said from one minute to the next and their followers don't remember recent history. We actually have one woman on here that doesn't believe Saddam used chemical weapons on the Kurds - she said it was media hype.

There are several Sharpton acolytes over on the DU who have never heard of Tawana Brawley.

It's like aliens came down from outer space and erased their hard drive. It's like Justin Timberlake blaming a costume malfunction, when 90 million people saw him reach over and pull JJ's bra cup off.

It's just frightening and weird.

Pete
02-03-2004, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by vraiblonde
Trevor, I loved your column but we've already established that Democrats all have Alzheimer's disease. The ones running for office don't remember what they said from one minute to the next and their followers don't remember recent history. We actually have one woman on here that doesn't believe Saddam used chemical weapons on the Kurds - she said it was media hype.

There are several Sharpton acolytes over on the DU who have never heard of Tawana Brawley.

It's like aliens came down from outer space and erased their hard drive. It's like Justin Timberlake blaming a costume malfunction, when 90 million people saw him reach over and pull JJ's bra cup off.

It's just frightening and weird. I can't wait until they are called on it. Let the squirming begin. Problem is thier followers have amnesia as well. I just hope we outnumber them.

dems4me
02-05-2004, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by vraiblonde
Trevor, I loved your column but we've already established that Democrats all have Alzheimer's disease. The ones running for office don't remember what they said from one minute to the next and their followers don't remember recent history. We actually have one woman on here that doesn't believe Saddam used chemical weapons on the Kurds - she said it was media hype.

There are several Sharpton acolytes over on the DU who have never heard of Tawana Brawley.

It's like aliens came down from outer space and erased their hard drive. It's like Justin Timberlake blaming a costume malfunction, when 90 million people saw him reach over and pull JJ's bra cup off.

It's just frightening and weird.


Well I guess you are referring to me as "the lady" on here. I didn't say it wasn't chemicals -- I said where are the chemicals that killed the kurds in their 1988 genocide? Where did all the stockpiles of wmds go if they really existed? Saddam is a mean person but there are other mean people in the world as well. My point was we went in for the lucrative no-bid oil contracts. Why don't we exert the same effort finding Osoma? Where's the AlQueda deck of cards????? What about going after the drug czars in Columbia that bring in cocain - they too are killing people by the way.

No I don't have alzheimer's - I thought that was a republican trait -- contra hearings in the late 80s

dems4me
02-05-2004, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Pete
I can't wait until they are called on it. Let the squirming begin. Problem is thier followers have amnesia as well. I just hope we outnumber them.

Well Pete you do outnumber them on this somd cite because most the people here (as I've recently realized) are either 1) in the military or 2) have a military member in the family.

Now, if the people on welfare, the minorities, the people that live alternative lifestyles, and the uninsured had a webcite, I'm sure there would be a forum very opposite in beliefs than those found on this webcite.

Pete
02-05-2004, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by dems4me
Well Pete you do outnumber them on this somd cite because most the people here (as I've recently realized) are either 1) in the military or 2) have a military member in the family.

Now, if the people on welfare, the minorities, the people that live alternative lifestyles, and the uninsured had a webcite, I'm sure there would be a forum very opposite in beliefs than those found on this webcite. Good news, I managed to use an assumed name to register to vote again. This fella came and helped me fill out the paperwork, then drove me over to the place to register, gave me a ham sammich and told me he would be picking me up in November to vote 2 times. :clap:His jacket said "DNC" Florida Task Force.

CMC122
02-05-2004, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Pete
Good news, I managed to use an assumed name to register to vote again. This fella came and helped me fill out the paperwork, then drove me over to the place to register, gave me a ham sammich and told me he would be picking me up in November to vote 2 times. :clap:
:roflmao:

dems4me
02-05-2004, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Pete
Good news, I managed to use an assumed name to register to vote again. This fella came and helped me fill out the paperwork, then drove me over to the place to register, gave me a ham sammich and told me he would be picking me up in November to vote 2 times. :clap:His jacket said "DNC" Florida Task Force.

Go ahead Pete - I'm sure its Carl Rove just doing that for the media underneath the jacket and plans on drugging you with the Ham Sandwhich. Even if it was DNC -- its not like those votes in those 500 boxes worth will make it anywere if they come from a poor district only the affluent or military. But have heart, they will be discovered in a few months and by then its too late. All you can do then is file a civil suit and receive an oops, apology.

headinsouth
02-05-2004, 01:26 PM
"Now, if the people on welfare, the minorities, the people that live alternative lifestyles, and the uninsured had a webcite, I'm sure there would be a forum very opposite in beliefs than those found on this webcite."


You can't swing a dead cat without hitting one of their websites...

strange that we miltary types are the ones that are fighting this fight in Iraq and we seem to think It's worth it..

I shutter to think what would have happened if the WTC came tumbling down with Al Gore sitting in the White House...

dems4me
02-05-2004, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by headinsouth
"Now, if the people on welfare, the minorities, the people that live alternative lifestyles, and the uninsured had a webcite, I'm sure there would be a forum very opposite in beliefs than those found on this webcite."


You can't swing a dead cat without hitting one of their websites...

strange that we miltary types are the ones that are fighting this fight in Iraq and we seem to think It's worth it..

I shutter to think what would have happened if the WTC came tumbling down with Al Gore sitting in the White House...

You might want to sit down for this -- my opinion is that under Gore he would have hired experienced people to top level cabinet positions - not as a kick back for providing legal services in Gore v. Bush in Florida. I don't however hold Bush responsible, I hold CIA Tenant responsible. He should have long been fired by now (unless he has something to blackmail president about???)
1) He was clueless prior to 9/11 and just focused on Iraq intelligence (or lack thereof).
2) He was clueless regarding the anthrax crisis and we have never pinned this guy down either
3) He made up the story about Nigeria providing weapons to Iraq that was quoted in last years state of the union
4) He has been prooved wrong in everything else that is supposed to be based on his Iraq assumptions of WMD
5) Did he help at all in tracking snipers or was that just chief moose?
5) now this Risin thing which again will go unsolved.

What exactly is Tenant doing other than consuming space at the CIA??

dems4me
02-05-2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by headinsouth
"Now, if the people on welfare, the minorities, the people that live alternative lifestyles, and the uninsured had a webcite, I'm sure there would be a forum very opposite in beliefs than those found on this webcite."


You can't swing a dead cat without hitting one of their websites...

strange that we miltary types are the ones that are fighting this fight in Iraq and we seem to think It's worth it..

I shutter to think what would have happened if the WTC came tumbling down with Al Gore sitting in the White House...

How are you tying in the collapse of the WTC to Iraq? Are you just going along with what Tenant and Bush is saying that -- there's connections there, we just can't proove it and don't need to proove it theory to invade???

Pete
02-05-2004, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by dems4me
You might want to sit down for this -- my opinion is that under Gore he would have hired experienced people to top level cabinet positions - not as a kick back for providing legal services in Gore v. Bush in Florida. I don't however hold Bush responsible, I hold CIA Tenant responsible. He should have long been fired by now (unless he has something to blackmail president about???)
1) He was clueless prior to 9/11 and just focused on Iraq intelligence (or lack thereof).
2) He was clueless regarding the anthrax crisis and we have never pinned this guy down either
3) He made up the story about Nigeria providing weapons to Iraq that was quoted in last years state of the union
4) He has been prooved wrong in everything else that is supposed to be based on his Iraq assumptions of WMD
5) Did he help at all in tracking snipers or was that just chief moose?
5) now this Risin thing which again will go unsolved.

What exactly is Tenant doing other than consuming space at the CIA?? You read the Enquirer don't you?

dems4me
02-05-2004, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Pete
You read the Enquirer don't you?


Heck no.

Larry Gude
02-12-2004, 07:19 PM
...was a snare grabbing you and flipping you upside down.

1) He was clueless prior to 9/11 and just focused on Iraq intelligence (or lack thereof).

So, basically, we can say that Democrats are upset for...

A. Not enough being done before 9/11

and

B. To much being done AFTER 9/11

And ANY Democrat would have done a better job, sure 'nuff, like Bill Clinton prevented all them other bad things...uh...yes?

That 'bout it?

God forbid had we attack Afghanistan BEFORE 9/11 and 9/11 never happens. Imagine the 9 organ grinder monekys jumping up and down about that one..."Na uh...he's making stuff up! Airplanes and buildings...HA!"...In unison "YEAH!"

We should have waited in Iraq UNTIL they did something killing at least 3,000 people the President is sworn to protect...?

What you think 'bout dat?

dems4me
02-13-2004, 01:39 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Larry Gude
[B]...was a snare grabbing you and flipping you upside down.

Noooo... the giant sound I heard was Perot's giant sucking sound that he and other still hears - its our economy being flushed in the toilet for oil -- Iraq has no wmds and no plans on attacking us - they just wanted to be left alone. Just as in years past we all believed that Iraq had stolen 312 babies out of incubators in Kuwait and killed them all. Again, not try, just grasping at straws to attack for no-bid oil contracts to Cheney's Halliburton gruop. It was not only a no-bid situation for the oil for other countries, but it applied to oil companies based here in the United States as well. What is that sound I just heard? Did you slip on some oil and pop when you fell or were some light bulbs actually clicking on for you?

Kain99
02-13-2004, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by dems4me
[QUOTE][i]
[B]Iraq has no wmds and no plans on attacking us - they just wanted to be left alone.
Oh I get it! This is all a big joke! :killingme

jlabsher
02-13-2004, 01:53 PM
Kind of like this administration

dems4me
02-13-2004, 03:59 PM
:killingme :killingme

Kyle
02-13-2004, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Pete
You read the Enquirer don't you?

Originally posted by dems4me
Heck no.

She writes for it!

rraley
02-16-2004, 02:03 PM
I refuse to believe that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction. Clinton thought that he did, as did Bush I, and this current Bush. Our nation had an obligation after the first Persian Gulf War to get Hussein out of power and it is damn good that we got him out now. The man was one of the worst violators of human rights in our history and he violated scores of UN resolutions. Could President Bush had done a better job of getting UN support? Absolutely, but I am not going to apologize for the effort to remove a menace to the entire world from power in one of the most dangerous regions in the world.

vraiblonde
02-16-2004, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by rraley
I refuse to believe that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction. Clinton thought that he did, as did Bush I, and this current Bush. Our nation had an obligation after the first Persian Gulf War to get Hussein out of power and it is damn good that we got him out now. The man was one of the worst violators of human rights in our history and he violated scores of UN resolutions. Could President Bush had done a better job of getting UN support? Absolutely, but I am not going to apologize for the effort to remove a menace to the entire world from power in one of the most dangerous regions in the world. :clap:

ceo_pte
02-16-2004, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by vraiblonde
:clap:

That 'Dems' cat is way off the hook.. I guess we should all just mind our business and go along singing kumbaya...

That refusal to step-up and be the leader of this country by dealing with attacks against our people is the exact and precise reason 9/11 happened. I guess his mommy told him not to fight back when the bullies pushed him around at school, too.

Penn
02-16-2004, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by ceo_pte
That 'Dems' cat is way off the hook.. I guess we should all just mind our business and go along singing kumbaya...

That refusal to step-up and be the leader of this country by dealing with attacks against our people is the exact and precise reason 9/11 happened.
I guess his mommy told him not to fight back when the bullies pushed him around at school, too.
:rolleyes: Or the fact that that one of his Cabinet members tried for over an hour to reach him with the news that Osama had been located, targeted and was within an inch of his life.

But, as fate would have it, other things popped up, the window of opportunity passed, and we lost a very good chance to take this killer out.

Ah, but don't you recall; "it was just sex, stupid"!?!

Larry Gude
02-16-2004, 03:59 PM
...welcome to the forums!

Now, don't even go there:

Could President Bush had done a better job of getting UN support?

New York City has had anti pan handling laws and fines for jaywalking and other traffic control and public nuisance ordanances for decades.

Rudy Guiliani ran a campaign on ENFORCING this stuff and making people behave more civily.

The left LAUGHED at him. He won. He did what he said he would and New York City and the world are better for it. They still haven't forgiven him.

George Bush stated during campaign 2000 that he would, among other things, hold Iraq and the UN responsible for their commitments they left lacking for almost a decade at that point.

He won. He did what he said he would do.

The left is jumping up and down like organ grinder monkeys because of this.

What more, after now 12 years and three different Presidents, was anyone on the US going to do to get the UN to do their job?

Answer: Nothing.

France, Germany and Russia were doing business with Hussein right up to the day we moved. No one should kid themselves about what this means as far as their Security Council votes.

They were NOT going to do anything.

No one wants to read the Iraq War resolution because it says, simply, 'we ought to deal with this guy sooner rather than later' because it was a correct and sane position.

There is this INSANE argument, that EVEN though Iraq would not let the UN or the US verify everything they commited themselves to doing, the Bush administration is SOMEHOW criminally negligent for NOT KNOWING exactly what they had or had not done.

Madness.

Giving an inch when all the facts are so evident and clear is tantamount to letting the children stay up an extra half hour simply because they complained enough.

It rewards, like Iraq pre Bush, for poor behavior; the coin of the Realm, it seems, in the Democratic Party.

Madness.

rraley
02-16-2004, 04:13 PM
Look, President Bush was right to do what he did but he still could have had a better long-term committment to multilateralism. One of Bush's first actions in office was to withdraw the United States from six international treaties; not a good first step in being part of the World. Then after 9/11 President Bush failed to realize that more than just Americans heard his speeches. His tone could have been different and more open to other nations. I was watching CNN presents a couple of nights ago that chronicled the Islamic World's reaction to 9/11 and the War on Terror. Many of these moderate Muslims said that they felt very bad for the American people but that the language of Bush turned them off. It just seems like Bush does not consider the international consequences of his words. For instance he referred to Iraq as a crusade before we went to war...not too good for Muslims to hear that and there was a major uproar overseas.
The French are terrible...Jacque Chirac sucks certain things that will be blocked out if I type them, but they weren't the only ones that were mad at us. The recent international donor conference to ask for monetary support from foreign nations in Iraq yielded $0. There is a much more wide ranging problem here than just a couple members of the Security Council. Bush I got UN support for Persian Gulf I and Bush II got a strong resolution condeming Iraq; you cannot say that he could not get UN support for the war.

Aimhigh2000
04-13-2004, 06:07 PM
We all know Iraq had WMD's, we sold it to them. Now as far as people on welfare or that live "alternative" lifestyles had their own websites......lemme say this. First, I don't know what you mean by "Alternative Lifestyle" If you mean gay, then say gay. I am and it doesn't offend me. I would rather conservatives say gay then lump alot of weird things under the title "Alternative" Second, I served in the first Gulf War. I come from a proud military family and I agree that the first war was worth it. But, I disagree with this one. Hey, we didn't find the WMD's, Saddam is out, turn the country over to the Iraqi's and bring the boys (and girls) home. Hey, we are not the world's police. Let those countries fend for themselves. Let's sit back and watch. America has its "interests" in everything, everywhere. Well, it is time that we take our hand out of the cookie jar and sit back at the dinner table. We have the best military and it should be well funded. I just think we should bring our people back on this side of the pond. Secure our borders, secure our land. Keep this the land of the free, home of the brave. Keep America free, the others can do it on their own if they want to. We are not the World Police.

vraiblonde
04-13-2004, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by Aimhigh2000
We are not the World Police. There's a part of me that couldn't agree with you more. But, like it or not, we operate under a global economy and when bad things happen in other countries, it affects us.

So unless we're willing to TRULY shut our borders - cease trade with other countries, turn their immigrants back at the gate, quit giving them military and financial aid, quit feeding them, and quit fighting their battles for them - it'll never work.

That means no NATO, no UN, no whatever other global organizations we belong to.

What that also means is that these places turn into the wild west. If a Saddam-wannabe decides to take over another country and he's strong enough to do it, that country gets taken over. If China wants to take over Taiwan, the Koreas and the other Asian countries, there's no US disapproval to dissuade them.

Since we're not a nation of warmongers and we haven't taken over another country since we nabbed this one from the Indians, the US and the freedoms its citizens enjoy will go the way of the dinosaur. Why? Because eventually, when the warlords have taken over every other country, they're going to come after us. And we won't have the numbers or the strength to stop them.

Aimhigh2000
04-13-2004, 10:52 PM
OOO, touchy subject indeed. We supposedly live in a global economy, but, the United States has been running around with our nose in everyone else's business, that we don't know how to act in a global economy. We have our little red wagons now being made in China, Levi's Jeans in Mexico. Maybe if we paid a little more attention to the global economy, we could be major players in it, and not second to the EU. Like I said, we need to get back to the job of taking care of America first. And there is NATO and the UN, let them deal with these problems. We should be making the best merchandise in the world, not importing it.:frown:

vraiblonde
04-13-2004, 11:12 PM
Um...Aim...I think one of us doesn't understand what "global economy" means. I suspect it's you. (http://www.socialstudiesforkids.com/articles/economics/globaleconomy.htm)

Aimhigh2000
04-14-2004, 11:29 AM
As I currently maintain a 3.8 in school, the fact that I deal with business everyday, and the fact that in 4 of my 5 classes we are dealing with the issue, I do not believe that I do not understand the global economy. My position is simply that America needs to wake up and see how the rest of the world is adapting to it, lest we be left behind.


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