I've stepped on Breeders Toes - I understand

[Cowgirl]

Originally Posted by krazd_kat

I can't believe as a COE breeder that you would ever even consider purchasing a dog from the Amish (let alone even purchasing a cross bred dog), who you could easily call either "Puppy Mills or Back Yard Breeders". I do not know of a single Amish breeder that has ever done all the proper testing to ensure well bred dogs. I will agree that probably 80% (depending on the breed), do not have any problems throughout their lives. But the other 20%, the new owners will deal with the $$ and the heartbreak of poorly bred dogs. Now before someone jumps me on the numbers, these are purely my own guestimates.

Krazd, as much as I agree with you on rescuing dogs, sometimes it is necessary to buy from a breeder, even an Amish one. My friends have sheep, and they needed a border collie, so they went to an amish farm and bought a pup. The dog is not registered, but it is purebred. In this case, they needed a dog to handle a specific duty on the farm. If they had rescued the dog, they wouldn't have known its background, what the parents were like, etc. They chose to buy a dog from an amish farm because it was a pup with working parents. A border collie breeder (even a COE one) probably would not have been able to provide a pup that could actually work on a farm. Sometimes breeders get so involved in the "show" animal, that they breed away from the working lines for which the dog was actually bred. Take a look at greyhounds...retired racers and AKC or WKC dogs look hardly anything alike.

So anyways, while I agree that most times it is better to rescue a dog, sometimes it is better to buy from a breeder.

[krazd_kat]

Originally Posted by Cowgirl

Krazd, as much as I agree with you on rescuing dogs, sometimes it is necessary to buy from a breeder, even an Amish one. My friends have sheep, and they needed a border collie, so they went to an amish farm and bought a pup. The dog is not registered, but it is purebred. In this case, they needed a dog to handle a specific duty on the farm. If they had rescued the dog, they wouldn't have known its background, what the parents were like, etc. They chose to buy a dog from an amish farm because it was a pup with working parents. A border collie breeder (even a COE one) probably would not have been able to provide a pup that could actually work on a farm. Sometimes breeders get so involved in the "show" animal, that they breed away from the working lines for which the dog was actually bred. Take a look at greyhounds...retired racers and AKC or WKC dogs look hardly anything alike.

So anyways, while I agree that most times it is better to rescue a dog, sometimes it is better to buy from a breeder.

Well, the majority of "Amish" are pure and simple Back Yard Breeders and anyone buying from them runs a risk purchasing one of their dogs. They do not pay any attention to what they are breeding. Yes, they probably have "working" dogs, but you can as easily get a working dog from a good breeder, you will pay more, no doubt, but you will be better assured of getting an animal w/less genetic health/temperment problems.

I agree that many times when you are looking for a dog for a "specific" purpose, you need to go to a breeder and not a rescue. The rescues are "full" of the BYB purebred dogs, dogs that are not suitable for what their breed is for. Most times, the traits they have the most of are the "undesirable" traits that are common in their breed, but they have it 10x worse (i.e. prey drive, attack any small animal).

The BYB's will also sell their dogs to ANYONE, without regard to what type of home it's going to. How many ads do we see daily, someone trying to rehome their dog, it's too hyper, needs more exercise, (to name only a few) these are traits that are common in the dog they bought, but not only did they not research their purchase, the "breeder" didn't care what type of home they would provide, all they wanted was the $$ in the bank.

Trust me, I have NOTHING against COE breeders. They have a definite place in society and in the pet population. It's the BYB's and the puppy mills that have no place in society and until everyone takes an interest and decides to take a stand, there will always be a need for rescue. Another thing you can trust me on, I look forward to the day rescue isn't needed and I don't have to try to educate hard headed people, or people looking for the cheapest dog - the day that I don't have to go take pictures of dogs on their last day, the night I can go to sleep not worrying about if the 10 yr old dog got adopted, or the 6 month old pitbull got rescued. (edited to add, the day I can go to the shelter and not cry because someone "dumped" their dog instead of paying the vet to fix the problems (genetic), or because they didn't have the "balls" to let that pet go gracefully and painfree) The day I can have only my "own" dogs.

(And before someone jumps on the above statement, yes, I could do that today, except my conscience won't let me.)

[Nucklesack]

Originally Posted by krazd_kat

Well, the majority of "Amish" are pure and simple Back Yard Breeders and anyone buying from them runs a risk purchasing one of their dogs. They do not pay any attention to what they are breeding. Yes, they probably have "working" dogs, but you can as easily get a working dog from a good breeder, you will pay more, no doubt, but you will be better assured of getting an animal w/less genetic health/temperment problems.

I agree that many times when you are looking for a dog for a "specific" purpose, you need to go to a breeder and not a rescue. The rescues are "full" of the BYB purebred dogs, dogs that are not suitable for what their breed is for. Most times, the traits they have the most of are the "undesirable" traits that are common in their breed, but they have it 10x worse (i.e. prey drive, attack any small animal).

The BYB's will also sell their dogs to ANYONE, without regard to what type of home it's going to. How many ads do we see daily, someone trying to rehome their dog, it's too hyper, needs more exercise, (to name only a few) these are traits that are common in the dog they bought, but not only did they not research their purchase, the "breeder" didn't care what type of home they would provide, all they wanted was the $$ in the bank.

Trust me, I have NOTHING against COE breeders. They have a definite place in society and in the pet population. It's the BYB's and the puppy mills that have no place in society and until everyone takes an interest and decides to take a stand, there will always be a need for rescue. Another thing you can trust me on, I look forward to the day rescue isn't needed and I don't have to try to educate hard headed people, or people looking for the cheapest dog - the day that I don't have to go take pictures of dogs on their last day, the night I can go to sleep not worrying about if the 10 yr old dog got adopted, or the 6 month old pitbull got rescued. (edited to add, the day I can go to the shelter and not cry because someone "dumped" their dog instead of paying the vet to fix the problems (genetic), or because they didn't have the "balls" to let that pet go gracefully and painfree) The day I can have only my "own" dogs.

(And before someone jumps on the above statement, yes, I could do that today, except my conscience won't let me.)

Small Minded Pig Headedness will get you nowhere.

I'm going to go buy a 20$ dog from the Amish and then take it to the shelter, just to piss you off

[SouthernMdRocks]

Originally Posted by Nucklesack

Small Minded Pig Headedness will get you nowhere.

I'm going to go buy a 20$ dog from the Amish and then take it to the shelter, just to piss you off

Now Nucklesack, what's up with that?

[Four*Leaf*Farm]

Originally Posted by Nucklesack

Small Minded Pig Headedness will get you nowhere.

I'm going to go buy a 20$ dog from the Amish and then take it to the shelter, just to piss you off

What is wrong with you?

[happyappygirl (Premo)]

Originally Posted by mygoldnhorse

That is horrible that your little puggle has cancer. Do you think that the other puppies he sells would also have this?

research tells me both pugs and beagles are prone to it. poor little guy. He's got tumors in many spots, and the largest one is on his mouth. it's about the size of a large pea and all bumpy. Zita bit it off, because she was troubled by it, i knew when she did that, something terrible was up.

Originally Posted by Krazd kat

I have to ask where did the Queensland Puppy you are selling come from?

The ACD puppy is from my own 2 ACDs purchased from fellow horse/cattle breeders. Parents are stock dog registered. She is a singleton puppy who won't be registered. Your point is?

Frankly, neither myself nor anyone else reading this thread had the need to see all that text you posted about "what a BYB is". And BYBs rarely read forums regarding breeding dogs.

What the world needs more of, are caring breeders, willing to only breed a few quality puppies, specifically destined for perfect "pet" homes. Most "show dog" breeders I know snow themselves and others into believing everything they breed is bound for greatness, and charge an arm and a leg for it. My Rottie pups aren't cheap, but they certainly aren't expensive compared to what pet stores get for them. I have a long waiting list for the one or occasionally 2 litters i breed each year.

BTW we also had another Rottie Champion finish at the Salisbury MD show this past weekend, and another female went Best of Breed and Best of Opposite both days in NH this weekend. We'll have 3 more champions to our kennel name this year, and hopefully another one in my house by next summer. These are from 2 different moms, over the last 3 years. All three are either OFA Good or Excellent, heart clear, eyes clear. THAT's quality breeding for ya.

[Bustem' Down]

This whole thing is rediculous. Krazed, do what you want to do. Pizzed off breeders, do what you want to do. Simple as that.

[happyappygirl (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Bustem' Down

This whole thing is rediculous. Krazed, do what you want to do. Pizzed off breeders, do what you want to do. Simple as that.

thanks daddy...

[krazd_kat]

Originally Posted by happyappygirl

The ACD puppy is from my own 2 ACDs purchased from fellow horse/cattle breeders. Parents are stock dog registered. She is a singleton puppy who won't be registered. Your point is?

I asked because I didn't see the parent information for the puppy on your site.

Originally Posted by happyappygirl

Frankly, neither myself nor anyone else reading this thread had the need to see all that text you posted about "what a BYB is". And BYBs rarely read forums regarding breeding dogs.

YOU asked my definition of a BYB. And I will venture to say there are plenty of BYBs reading the forums, as many of them do not admit even to themselves that they are BYBs. As many BYB that advertise on the classifieds I'm sure they "stumble" in here occasionally.

I have no beef w/you. I have seen that you show and title your Rottweilers, congratulations, and you are right - that is quality breeding.

[Foxhound]

Wow! I am glad I read this thread. I commend you KK. The breeders of my Jack Russel have asked me to keep in touch with them. I haven't written in almost year now. They live in upper PA and now I think I understand their reasoning. I guess I can update my dogs webpage and send em an E. Thanks for the reminder.