Pledge Allegiance to the Flag....

[Giantone]

[]

Why did you fabricate the facts in order for the president to dredge up a war against Iraq? You had to know the intel was faulty. Right?

Unlike Bush Clinton did not know the "intel was faulty"(nice spin)Bush knew it was bad intel and went to war anyway.

Before we continue with the impeachment process with President Bush and Vice President Cheney we have to have answers to these fundamental questions. Why did you all lie about Iraq's WMD and perpetuate this lie to President Bush?

They believed it to be true Bush was made aware it was not ,he used old and outdated intel to falsely convince people to go to war.Clinton knowing what he did and doing nothing was stupid on his part,Bush knowing it was false and then going to war and putting American solders in harms way knowing the "intel" was wrong is crimminal.

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Unlike Bush Clinton did not know the "intel was faulty"(nice spin)Bush knew it was bad intel and went to war anyway.

Folks, what we have here is a Clinton apologist.

And how do you know this anyway, that Clinton didn't know? I mean, given the rhetoric alone, the only difference between the two is Bush acted on it (well except for the 3 times Clinton bombed Iraq). But I'm curious to know how it is Clinton didn't know, but Bush did. I mean here's Gore just 5 months before the war:

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."

Here's Hillary just 2 months before the incasion. Don't you think Bill would have advised her before she goes opening her mouth about it?

"I voted for the Iraqi resolution. I consider the prospect of a nuclear-armed Saddam Hussein who can threaten not only his neighbors but the stability of the region and the world, a very serious threat to the United States."

What about Clinton's SecDef William Cohen in Apr 2003?

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out."

I mean if you read below, Hans Blix said Saddam had none after 1994. How can this be? Cohen saw the evidence. Someone is lying here.

Originally Posted by Giantone

They believed it to be true Bush was made aware it was not ,he used old and outdated intel to falsely convince people to go to war.Clinton knowing what he did and doing nothing was stupid on his part,Bush knowing it was false and then going to war and putting American solders in harms way knowing the "intel" was wrong is crimminal.

Bush had conflicting intel. Some experts were saying Saddam was not armed and some were saying he was. If someone tells you I'm going to punch you in the face and then someone else comes along says I'm not, what are you going to do, sit there and wait for me to punch you to find out?

Here's the kicker though... Hans Blix testified that Saddam had no WMD after 1994. Well, gee... now he tells us. I mean why didn't he say something back then? He could have saved us a lot of trouble. Fact of the matter is Hans Blix if full of crap and was trying to save face for failed inspections and faulty intel.

Here's the bottom line Giant, no one really knew (except one person: Saddam). Hence 911 we had a new enemy that had easy access to our soil. They would use anything to kill us. Intelligence said Saddam had what they wanted... WMD. Intelligence also said Saddam had ties to terrorist organizations. It doesn't matter much now about how faulty the intel was. No one at that time knew it. NO ONE! The UN never retracted UNR 1441; meaning they still suspected he was armed. Congress, who had the same access to the same intel, believed he was armed. Being the US was the prime target we were not going to take the chance. I know how much you would have liked to give them that chance - becauase you would have done what Clinton did: NOTHING - but Bush, as the sitting president; the one responsible for our security, wasn't going to sit idly by and allow one more attack against us. After watching it happen over and over under Clinton's watch and finally seeing the ultimate attack on our own soil, Bush was not going to allow it again.

And I know you love to blame every stinking little thing that goes wrong in this world on Bush but that is one you thing you can't blame him on is more dead people in the streets of America. And if he had done nothing, and we did have another attack, and it was found the weapons came from Iraq, I can't imagine the outrage from folks like you. Damned if you do... damned if you don't. I'd rather damned if you do and Americans are alive.

All of this leads back to the 60 Minutes report (did you read it?). The FBI Agent Piro has first hand word from Saddam that it was him (Saddam) that lied. He was the one that mislead us. Yet you still want to blame Bush. This sort of denial has a new set of initials: BSD.

[Giantone]

Folks what we have here is a Bush loyalist,who takes great offense at questioning of his angelic leader.The facts with times and dates have been posted to counter everything you have said,your ignorance has blinded you so all you do now is call names, fine.Bush lied and I have given you more than enough proof.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Ken , what I believe to be true is this ....notice the dates.



http://www.salon.com/opinion/blument...9/06/bush_wmd/


Bush knew Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction
Salon exclusive: Two former CIA officers say the president squelched top-secret intelligence, and a briefing by George Tenet, months before invading Iraq.

By Sidney Blumenthal

Sept. 6, 2007 | On Sept. 18, 2002, CIA director George Tenet briefed President Bush in the Oval Office on top-secret intelligence that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, according to two former senior CIA officers. Bush dismissed as worthless this information from the Iraqi foreign minister, a member of Saddam's inner circle, although it turned out to be accurate in every detail. Tenet never brought it up again.

Nor was the intelligence included in the National Intelligence Estimate of October 2002, which stated categorically that Iraq possessed WMD. No one in Congress was aware of the secret intelligence that Saddam had no WMD as the House of Representatives and the Senate voted, a week after the submission of the NIE, on the Authorization for Use of Military Force in Iraq. The information, moreover, was not circulated within the CIA among those agents involved in operations to prove whether Saddam had WMD.

This needed to be bumped.

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Folks what we have here is a Bush loyalist,who takes great offense at questioning of his angelic leader.The facts with times and dates have been posted to counter everything you have said,your ignorance has blinded you so all you do now is call names, fine.Bush lied and I have given you more than enough proof.

Okay... I guess I have to say it again.

I.......... AM.......... NOT.......... A.......... BUSH.......... SUPPORTER!

I am loyal to defending this country. Bush gets it. Most democrats don't. But they only don't get it for political reasons. If it was Gore in the WH he'd probably be doing the same thing and you democrats would be marching right behind him. It's plain and clear when you have to reduce your rhetoric to the simplistic "Bush lied". AND, somehow you KNOW Clinton didn't lie. You seem to have a lot of knowledge of what's inside our leaders' heads.

The bottom line is this... we invaded Iraq. We did it based on what appears to be faulty intelligence (20/20 hindsight is all so convenient for those willing to cast political aspersions). You want to blame Bush for that, fine! If it was a mistake he should be blamed. I personally don't believe it was a mistake. We have one less dictator that had evil intentions and brutalized his people to deal with. I think we did the morally right thing. I don't think we did it right (the blame rests on the CINC), but we did the right thing. But to say Bush lied is just nothing more than over-simplified political nonsense. To say that he was able to dupe everyone else into believing Saddam was armed and signed UNR 1441 or the IWR is delusional. 60 Minutes provided you a first hand account of why we all believed he was still armed and you reject it only because it doesn't fit your political agenda on the matter.

There is a lot to blame Bush for, and you wont get disagreement with me on it. But you will always get a debate from me when you reduce your argument to the simplisitic "liar, liar...".

[Giantone]

I am not a Bush supporter either nor do I or did I vote for Clinton.Yes it is that simple and I to love my country and will defend it and the military that defends it but Bush lied and there is no way to spin him out of it.He is the worst President this country has ever seen.

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by Giantone

I am not a Bush supporter either nor do I or did I vote for Clinton.Yes it is that simple and I to love my country and will defend it and the military that defends it but Bush lied and there is no way to spin him out of it.He is the worst President this country has ever seen.

If what you claim is the truth, that Bush lied just to get us into war then I would have to say this is a much worse lie that that of Clinton, by means immeasurable; a much more impeachable offense. If you can so easily conclude this with far less facts than our Congress, why is it this Congress hasn’t impeached Bush? How is it you are so convinced of something you have far less information on than our Congress, yet they are not convinced?

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

If what you claim is the truth, that Bush lied just to get us into war then I would have to say this is a much worse lie that that of Clinton, by means immeasurable; a much more impeachable offense. If you can so easily conclude this with far less facts than our Congress, why is it this Congress hasn’t impeached Bush? How is it you are so convinced of something you have far less information on than our Congress, yet they are not convinced?

Becuase I'm not running for office the truth matters to me.Not to the politicians who have to answer and explain why they were so stupid as to believe him.By the time the impeachment process is done he's out anyway.

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Becuase I'm not running for office the truth matters to me.Not to the politicians who have to answer and explain why they were so stupid as to believe him.By the time the impeachment process is done he's out anyway.

Now you're making excuses as to why your version of the "truth" hasn't panned out. This Congress has been in session for enough of time to impeach Bush. It was their golden star for crying out loud. They just knew they had him. Oh, and guess what... this Congress was also going to get us out of Iraq. We're still there.

Whether you think you know the inner workings of Bush's mind or not doesn't much matter at this point. What matters is... are we going to finish what we started? Or are we going to cut and run only because we believe Bush lied and was wrong? THAT is the reason this is political. You can cry "Bush lied" all day long and it wont change where we are. You want to vote for Obama because you believe he will correct Bush's lies, THAT is a political move that is not in the best interest of this country or the world. Or are you going to vote for someone that is willing to clean the mess up and finish the job? This country has to get past this media-driven BDS and start thinking about what's best for the country before another attack happens.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

Now you're making excuses as to why your version of the "truth" hasn't panned out. This Congress has been in session for enough of time to impeach Bush. It was their golden star for crying out loud. They just knew they had him. Oh, and guess what... this Congress was also going to get us out of Iraq. We're still there.

Whether you think you know the inner workings of Bush's mind or not doesn't much matter at this point. What matters is... are we going to finish what we started? Or are we going to cut and run only because we believe Bush lied and was wrong? THAT is the reason this is political. You can cry "Bush lied" all day long and it wont change where we are. You want to vote for Obama because you believe he will correct Bush's lies, THAT is a political move that is not in the best interest of this country or the world. Or are you going to vote for someone that is willing to clean the mess up and finish the job? This country has to get past this media-driven BDS and start thinking about what's best for the country before another attack happens.

There will always be blind followers and you are one of them,the same that failed to realize Bush lied and has taken this country down a path no different than Vietnam.I am hopefull that we can right ourselves,you say I want to vote for Obama...where did I say that ....give me the post ,you preach and moan but say nothing and then make accusations...give me the post were I say anything about Oboma?To thnk Bush is what's best for this country is total madness..........and ignorance the same ignorance that got us into this mess.We need to get out while we can