Pledge Allegiance to the Flag....

[Pushrod]

PsyOps, Haven't you ever heard the saying, 'you can't teach a pig to sing, it is a waste of your time and annoys the pig'. Well, your annoying Giantone with your logic!
Do I believe Bush lied about information to get us into a war? I don't know, I haven't seen enough proof of that yet. It seems like the majority of the evidence points to him being misled. Maybe he let himself to be misled due to a desire to get in there and oust Saddam, but that is just speculation on my part. Has he been a crummy President? most definetly. He sure hasn't upheld the Republican conservative ideals. Do I support him? He is our President, so yes, I support him as I have all our Presidents, whether I agree with them or not, otherwise I think it makes our country look weak. I did not vote for the man either time, but voted for 3rd party candidates that I believed closer matched my values.

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by Giantone

There will always be blind followers and you are one of them,the same that failed to realize Bush lied and has taken this country down a path no different than Vietnam.I am hopefull that we can right ourselves,you say I want to vote for Obama...where did I say that ....give me the post ,you preach and moan but say nothing and then make accusations...give me the post were I say anything about Oboma?To thnk Bush is what's best for this country is total madness..........and ignorance the same ignorance that got us into this mess.We need to get out while we can

Blind follower of what? I mean I could use the same argument that you are a blind follower of the anti-war, anti-Bush crowd. Haven’t we recovered from Vietnam? Are you saying we wont recover from this? We had much more to overcome from the destruction (in infrastructure, social, and economic) of WWII, and we did. And I’m not sure what you mean by righting ourselves?

I didn’t say you would vote for Obama, I was throwing that in as an option and the possible consequences of that choice. Given the facts of the current front-runners McCain is out because he will keep us in Iraq; so will Clinton. So it’s either a third party candidate or Obama. It was an educated guess.

The ignorance that got us into this mess was not the act of starting the war; it was the mismanagement of the war. This is where Bush listened to the wrong advisors to put commanders on the ground in Iraq that had the wrong strategy. None of this matters since you believe it was a war based on a lie.

All that aside, what do you suggest we do now? You are already bent on blaming Bush for all of our woes; fine… now what do you suggest we do?

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by Pushrod

PsyOps, Haven't you ever heard the saying, 'you can't teach a pig to sing, it is a waste of your time and annoys the pig'. Well, your annoying Giantone with your logic!
Do I believe Bush lied about information to get us into a war? I don't know, I haven't seen enough proof of that yet. It seems like the majority of the evidence points to him being misled. Maybe he let himself to be misled due to a desire to get in there and oust Saddam, but that is just speculation on my part. Has he been a crummy President? most definetly. He sure hasn't upheld the Republican conservative ideals. Do I support him? He is our President, so yes, I support him as I have all our Presidents, whether I agree with them or not, otherwise I think it makes our country look weak. I did not vote for the man either time, but voted for 3rd party candidates that I believed closer matched my values.

I accept that Bush was misled and acted on faulty intel. That changes nothing as far whether we did the right thing or not. In many ways I think Bush has been a crummy president and in many ways a great one. His tax cuts were a GREAT idea. His focus and steadfastness on winning this war, despite all the criticism, is impressive. He didn’t cave to the left’s attempts to undermine everything he has tried to accomplish. He has been horrendous with spending and solving illegal immigrations. I served in the military under 4 presidents. All of them made decisions that were questionable but I still honored them during those times. I understood the importance of not undermining our sitting CINC. Sometimes it was hard watching our troops go to places like Somalia, Kosovo, and the mideast for missions that seems pointless, but I don’t have all the facts and have to trust our leaders know more and I have to honor that. This whole anti-Bush propaganda does more damage to our credibility than what the anti-Bush crowd claims Bush has done.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

Blind follower of what? I mean I could use the same argument that you are a blind follower of the anti-war, anti-Bush crowd. Haven’t we recovered from Vietnam? Are you saying we wont recover from this? We had much more to overcome from the destruction (in infrastructure, social, and economic) of WWII, and we did. And I’m not sure what you mean by righting ourselves?

I didn’t say you would vote for Obama, I was throwing that in as an option and the possible consequences of that choice. Given the facts of the current front-runners McCain is out because he will keep us in Iraq; so will Clinton. So it’s either a third party candidate or Obama. It was an educated guess.

The ignorance that got us into this mess was not the act of starting the war; it was the mismanagement of the war. This is where Bush listened to the wrong advisors to put commanders on the ground in Iraq that had the wrong strategy. None of this matters since you believe it was a war based on a lie.

All that aside, what do you suggest we do now? You are already bent on blaming Bush for all of our woes; fine… now what do you suggest we do?

Bent no,giving due credit where it belongs yes.We need to withdraw, build our Military back up,stop closing our Military Installations.Make the Iraq people look after their own country.You said in an other post you have served under 4 Presidents well It's your job to back the President.I've lived under 10 and I'll tell you it's my right to question every single one of them!Whoever the next one will be will be beter than what we have now,there are thing about all that I like and dislike and I also want to see who the VP will be,IMO both Bushs screwed that up big time.I understand it's the tuffest job in the World and no one is perfect ,fault can be found with and in anyone if you look hard enough.In the biggest decision a President can make Bush just did'nt make a mistake he lied to accomplish his goal.I know he can not admit error but stop the show.

[Giantone]

[quote=Pushrod;2775298]PsyOps, Haven't you ever heard the saying, 'you can't teach a pig to sing, it is a waste of your time and annoys the pig'. Well, your annoying Giantone with your logic!
QUOTE]

Remember JESUS loves you but everyone else thinks you're an idiot.

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Bent no,giving due credit where it belongs yes.We need to withdraw, build our Military back up,stop closing our Military Installations.Make the Iraq people look after their own country.You said in an other post you have served under 4 Presidents well It's your job to back the President.I've lived under 10 and I'll tell you it's my right to question every single one of them!Whoever the next one will be will be beter than what we have now,there are thing about all that I like and dislike and I also want to see who the VP will be,IMO both Bushs screwed that up big time.I understand it's the tuffest job in the World and no one is perfect ,fault can be found with and in anyone if you look hard enough.In the biggest decision a President can make Bush just did'nt make a mistake he lied to accomplish his goal.I know he can not admit error but stop the show.

You mean surrender. No matter how you spin this “withdraw” thing, the enemy will interpret it as surrender and a victory for them. And in their minds that is everything. It gives them reason to move forward with their radical agenda of killing innocent people.

And there is a huge difference between questioning what our leaders do and calling them liars because they didn’t do what you wanted them to do. Clinton did a lot of things (especially regarding the military) that I didn’t like, but I didn’t call him a liar for making, what I consider to be, bad military decisions.

[Giantone]

No ,I mean withdraw.Surrender it's backward thinking like that that got into the Korean"Conflict" and Vietnam........not wars(sarcasm).As for the enemy ...hell the've been fighting over there for centuries what in the hell do you think we can do to make them stop........give them candy?They don't want us there and we should'nt be there.There is plenty of killing of innocent people here in our own country Bush needs to take care oh this country first ,not lie to get us into a war with another.

Clinton was a Moron,Bush is a liar.There is a difference between just being dumb and lying to the country to get what you want for your Dad.

[Giantone]

We just seem to be dealing with the war and while I admit it's a big thing Bush has had other lies.Hit the link and go past the war in Iraq.




The Other Lies of George Bush

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Clinton was a Moron,Bush is a liar.There is a difference between just being dumb and lying to the country to get what you want for your Dad.

No, I believe Clinton admitted to lying about the Lewinski thing. No matter how insignificant you will try to make that, this makes him not only a moron, but also a liar. Bush has to be PROVEN a liar.

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by Giantone

We just seem to be dealing with the war and while I admit it's a big thing Bush has had other lies.Hit the link and go past the war in Iraq.




The Other Lies of George Bush

Okay, this is where a I write

All politicians are cheats and liars.

So what's your point? That Bush is the only one guilty of such lies? If this held any water he would have been impeached by now. If he is the incompetent liar that you make him out to be he would have been done a long time ago.