What would happen if....

[czygvtwkr]

Some of these have cut and dry answers, some are more opinion

1) General election about October time frame one of the canidates suffers a heartattack and dies

2) December after election occured, the president elect has heart attack and dies, would the VP elect be sworn in as president? should the VP elect be sworn in or should there be a special election?

3) Neither canidate is and incumbent, at a debate an earthquake occurs and both canidates perish, what happens?

4) Can there ever be a special presidential election in such a case?

We have a very long line of succession but I don't ever recall reading anything for situations such as these.

[Tilted (Premo)]

Originally Posted by czygvtwkr

Some of these have cut and dry answers, some are more opinion

1) General election about October time frame one of the canidates suffers a heartattack and dies

One thing that needs to be considered with regard to this scenario is that we don't actually vote for presidential and vice-presidential candidates, we vote for presidential electors. States have different rules with regard to how this works, e.g. some list the names of presidential elector candidates on the ballots while some states don't. Maryland, like most states, does not. But under Maryland law a vote for a particular ticket (i.e. a presidential and a vice-presidential candidate) is considered a vote for each of the presidential electors chosen by that ticket's party. Those electors have to be submitted by the party, or by the candidate themselves in the case of candidates nominated by petition rather than by a qualifying party, to the Board of Elections at least 30 days before the election (this, again, is how it works in Maryland).

So back to the scenario you present. Unless this was very early in October, the parties' would already have certified their chosen elector candidates (in Maryland at least). Those elector candidates would have been chosen because they agreed to, or were expected to, vote for the parties' nominees for both President and Vice President should those nominees (technically the electors themselves) win the state's election. If the opposition party's nominees won the national election (i.e. enough states to get to 270 electoral votes), then it wouldn't really matter that the presidential candidate had died (though their death may have been part of the reason that they didn't win). However, if the candidate that died won the national election, in theory their presidential electors might be able to vote for the vice-presidential candidate (i.e. from the same ticket) as President in place of the candidate that had died. Those electors could then vote for someone else as the Vice President. In theory, they could also vote for someone else altogether as President. Different states have different laws about this. In some states the elector candidates can be required to pledge to vote for the 'winning' candidate. In some states an elector that doesn't vote for the 'winning' candidate can be subject to legal penalties, though it isn't clear that a state (or a party) can actually make an elector vote a particular way. At any rate, if the electors were going to vote for someone other than the national winner (who they were supposed to vote for, but who had died before winning the election), they would need to make sure that they all agreed - or that at least 270 of them agreed. Otherwise the House of Representatives would end up choosing the President (from among the top 3 electoral vote getters including, likely, the person that seemed to have lost the national election).

I think in this situation it's much more likely that the presidential electors for the deceased candidate would go ahead and vote for that deceased candidate as President and their running mate as Vice President. Then, in accordance with the answer below to your second question, that Vice President elect would become President. This would not only preserve the normal process as much as is possible, and avoid the risk that the electoral votes got split leading to an undesirable result (e.g. the other party's candidates becoming President and Vice President), but it would also be a way of honoring the deceased candidate (that went on to win) who, likely, would by then be the target of considerable affection from within their party.

Originally Posted by czygvtwkr

2) December after election occured, the president elect has heart attack and dies, would the VP elect be sworn in as president? should the VP elect be sworn in or should there be a special election?

Yes and yes they should. That's what is required by the Constitution.

That is assuming that this happens after the presidential electors cast their votes, which happens in mid-December. If it happens prior to that, other scenarios become possible, e.g. ones along the lines mentioned in the answer above to you first question.

Originally Posted by czygvtwkr

3) Neither canidate is and incumbent, at a debate an earthquake occurs and both canidates perish, what happens?

Depending on the timing in this scenario, the result would likely be much the same as in the answer to your first question. The difference would be that both presidential candidates were dead and no matter which one won the election, their electors would face the same choices referred to in that answer. I think, in effect, the race would be regarded by the electorate as being between the two vice presidential candidates. It's not clear to me that the respective parties would be able to officially change who was on the top of the respective tickets (i.e. replace the now-deceased presidential candidates). Perhaps there are specific laws that would allow them to in this kind of situation, but I'm not familiar with them.

Originally Posted by czygvtwkr

4) Can there ever be a special presidential election in such a case?

I'm not sure which of the cases you are referring to, but I don't think so. Perhaps the names on the top of the tickets could somehow be changed, but we'd still have essentially the same electoral process. Certainly in the case of the second scenario there wouldn't be a special election, the Constitution is clear about what happens in that situation.

[awpitt]

Originally Posted by czygvtwkr

1) General election about October time frame one of the canidates suffers a heartattack and dies

Since Electors have not been elected yet, the dead candidate's party would have to nominate a replacement.

Originally Posted by czygvtwkr

2) December after election occured, the president elect has heart attack and dies, would the VP elect be sworn in as president? should the VP elect be sworn in or should there be a special election?

The VP-Elect would become President on inauguration day then would nominate a new VP IAW the 25th Amendment.

Originally Posted by czygvtwkr

3) Neither canidate is and incumbent, at a debate an earthquake occurs and both canidates perish, what happens?

Each party would have to nominate replacement candidates.

Originally Posted by czygvtwkr

4) Can there ever be a special presidential election in such a case?

No. The Constitution does not provide for special elections for the POTUS.

[Tilted (Premo)]

Originally Posted by awpitt

Since Electors have not been elected yet, the dead candidate's party would have to nominate a replacement.

This would depend on the timing of the death and the laws / procedures of the respective states, no? I see that Maryland does have a process by which the parties could designate a replacement nominee even after they've submitted their original nominee's name to the state. However, ballots are printed ahead of time and there could be an issue with being able to reprint them in time. There's also a deadline (in Maryland) for filing a certification of designation (i.e. to name a replacement nominee) which is 10 days before the general election. And if the deceased nominee's name remains on the ballot, and they win, the vacancy is deemed to have occurred after the election and handled accordingly. How these things would work would likely differ from state to state.

At any rate, the voters aren't actually voting for the presidential nominee - whether they be the deceased or a replacement. They are voting for the presidential electors, and in Maryland those electors would already have been chosen (e.g. by the party) and certified to the state. So long as they hadn't died, the voters of the state would be electing the same group of people regardless of the fact that the presidential nominee had died. Who those electors would then vote for is another matter. They would have originally been selected because they indicated they were going to vote for the original (now deceased) nominee.

[awpitt]

Originally Posted by Tilted

This would depend on the timing of the death and the laws / procedures of the respective states, no? I see that Maryland does have a process by which the parties could designate a replacement nominee even after they've submitted their original nominee's name to the state. However, ballots are printed ahead of time and there could be an issue with being able to reprint them in time. There's also a deadline (in Maryland) for filing a certification of designation (i.e. to name a replacement nominee) which is 10 days before the general election. And if the deceased nominee's name remains on the ballot, and they win, the vacancy is deemed to have occurred after the election and handled accordingly. How these things would work would likely differ from state to state.

You make a good point here. If the death occurred shortly before the election, the ballots would have to stay as is.

Originally Posted by Tilted

At any rate, the voters aren't actually voting for the presidential nominee - whether they be the deceased or a replacement. They are voting for the presidential electors, and in Maryland those electors would already have been chosen (e.g. by the party) and certified to the state. So long as they hadn't died, the voters of the state would be electing the same group of people regardless of the fact that the presidential nominee had died. Who those electors would then vote for is another matter. They would have originally been selected because they indicated they were going to vote for the original (now deceased) nominee.

The Electors aren't chosen until election day in Nov.

[Tilted (Premo)]

Originally Posted by awpitt

You make a good point here. If the death occurred shortly before the election, the ballots would have to stay as is.




The Electors aren't chosen until election day in Nov.

The electorate chooses which set of electors wins the state (i.e. which presidential candidate wins the state) on election day. That's not what I was referring to, I was referring to the actual electors that make up the sets of electors - the people that are chosen by the parties (or by candidates themselves in the case of nomination by petition) to be the electors should the party win the election. In Maryland, those names are required to be certified to the State Board of Elections at least 30 days before the general election. See MD Election Law § 8-503(c).

[bcp (Premo)]

Originally Posted by czygvtwkr

Some of these have cut and dry answers, some are more opinion

1) General election about October time frame one of the canidates suffers a heartattack and dies

if its the right one, BCP buys drinks for all and has party where he is unable to stop rejoicing

2) December after election occured, the president elect has heart attack and dies, would the VP elect be sworn in as president? should the VP elect be sworn in or should there be a special election?

see above

3) Neither canidate is and incumbent, at a debate an earthquake occurs and both canidates perish, what happens?

BCP parties