100% Renewable Energy in Germany

[glhs837]

Originally Posted by itsbob

So Germany didn't fix the problem, nor did they decrease their carbon footprint but in fact made it MUCH worse when they closed their Nuke plants..

They just moved the "greenhouse gasses" to somebody else's backyard, but still release them into the same atmosphere..

So what is it exactly that they have accomplished??

Higher energy prices for their citizens... that's what.

Oh wait. They're led by a bunch of Liberal loons too so I guess this is a GREAT solution.

Oh, that reminds me. The Germans are facing EU CO2 cap penalties due to having to burn more coal since they have shut down nuke plants. They planned underground sequestration systems for CO2 emissions, but the state governors shut them down on that, knowing their populations wouldnt go for it. And one of the sources of money to pay for the subsidies was a tax on nuke fuel rods. And that went to court, and the German govt lost.

[jetmonkey]

Doesn't matter. Once all these windmills kill the birds and bats off, you will be eaten alive by booming insect populations. Buy stock in calamine, #####es

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by Gilligan

You mean like all the positive effects of that variety that we've experienced by making ethanol from corn?

Oh...wait....no, that wouldn't be a good example, would it.

No, it wouldn't. Natural gas and solar are better examples.

Originally Posted by itsbob

Now for the rest of the story..

Their renewable energy solutions do NOT provide enough power for their own country.. They have to now (since they've shut down all of their Nuke Plants) go across borders and BUY energy (EXPENSIVE) from other countries that still have nuke and fossil fuel plants.

They've shot themselves in the foot and spin it as a good thing.

Interesting, and if that's the case then you're right they shot themselves in the foot.

To me, support for alternative forms of energy isn't about the greenhouse effect but rather being self-sufficient. I detest dependence on foreign oil, but yet I want to keep our oil reserves as just that, reserves. I don't support coal because I hate strip mining, and I say that having generations of family members in West Virginia and Ohio who made their living at coal mining plants -- I've seen it's more personal effects first hand. The home I grew up in is now solar, it only took three years for the new owner to start making a return on his investment -- the electric company now pays him. I own the gas rights on some property, and I'm just waiting for the day that a company wants to extract it. :crossingmygreedyfingers:

[glhs837]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

-- I've seen it's more personal effects first hand. The home I grew up in is now solar, it only took three years for the new owner to start making a return on his investment -- the electric company now pays him. I own the gas rights on some property, and I'm just waiting for the day that a company wants to extract it. :crossingmygreedyfingers:

Three years? How did that work, since the average says eight years on a subsidized 5kw residential system. But, keep in mind the subsidies, that we paid for. HEre's a list

Residential Solar Maryland Pricing and Savings - Home Solar System Maryland | Green Street Solar

When, in years to come, when that installation loses it's effectiveness, as solar cells do, and needs to replaced, how much will it cost? Will those subsidies still be in place?

Why does the company pay the owner? Why a legal requirement. See, here's how it works. I cant imagine any solar installation almost any homeowner can afford could actually supply al the needs of a modern house, so I went looking...

Solar Power Rocks - Maryland Solar Incentives, Solar Rebates, and Tax Credits


Here's the key.....

What’s more, a 2007 amendment requires utilities to get at least 2% of that electricity to come from good, clean solar power by 2022.

If the utilities do not comply, they have to pay a fee to the state. Therefore, there’s now a thriving renewable energy credit market as that deadline nears.

What that means for you is, your utility company would rather pay you a little bit less than that nasty fee to the state just for saying they are meeting their numbers for solar electric power production instead of paying hefty fees to Annapolis.

Yes, that’s right, they’ll be paying you cold hard cash for the electricity you generate with your solar panels on your rooftop, just to claim that your kilowatts are connected to the grid – even if you use all of what you produce on site!

So, it's not as if you are making enough for yourself and selling back extra to the grid. They are "cooking the books" to avoid a larger fine to the state. And it gets better....

n 2007, the legislature voted to give you a property tax exemption for your solar panels. That means that making your house more valuable by installing a solar system won’t cost you a penny when tax time rolls around.

So, you get this installation, and we pay for part of it. Part of the "pays for itself" is actually not it paying a dime, but the politicians picking my pocket. Again, it were a good way to make power, it would work just fine without picking my pocket to work.

One last point, since the great whacking majority of this new generation of installations only make the small sense they do when using cheap Chinese panels, I hope they are not akin to Chinese drywall.

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by glhs837

Three years? How did that work, since the average says eight years on a subsidized 5kw residential system. But, keep in mind the subsidies, that we paid for. HEre's a list

Residential Solar Maryland Pricing and Savings - Home Solar System Maryland | Green Street Solar

When, in years to come, when that installation loses it's effectiveness, as solar cells do, and needs to replaced, how much will it cost? Will those subsidies still be in place?

Why does the company pay the owner? Why a legal requirement. See, here's how it works. I cant imagine any solar installation almost any homeowner can afford could actually supply al the needs of a modern house, so I went looking...

Solar Power Rocks - Maryland Solar Incentives, Solar Rebates, and Tax Credits


Here's the key.....



So, it's not as if you are making enough for yourself and selling back extra to the grid. They are "cooking the books" to avoid a larger fine to the state. And it gets better....



So, you get this installation, and we pay for part of it. Part of the "pays for itself" is actually not it paying a dime, but the politicians picking my pocket. Again, it were a good way to make power, it would work just fine without picking my pocket to work.

One last point, since the great whacking majority of this new generation of installations only make the small sense they do when using cheap Chinese panels, I hope they are not akin to Chinese drywall.

You're assuming that all solar homes use what they produce.

I don't know what materials he used, and I was told three years to make a return. He may or may not be producing more than he uses, I don't know. I simply relayed what the homeowner told me.

Fair 'nuff on the tax credits. How else can a nation encourage alternative forms of energy? I'd be willing to bet you take advantage of a few tax breaks or credits yourself. Does that mean you're picking pockets too?

[glhs837]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

You're assuming that all solar homes use what they produce.

I don't know what materials he used, and I was told three years to make a return. He may or may not be producing more than he uses, I don't know. I simply relayed what the homeowner told me.

Fair 'nuff on the tax credits. How else can a nation encourage alternative forms of energy? I'd be willing to bet you take advantage of a few tax breaks or credits yourself. Does that mean you're picking pockets too?

If it's a recent installation, chances are good it's using Chinese panels, they have flooded the market. So he said it had paid for itself, or it was going to?

It can best do that by investing that subsidy money on basic research, heck, spending on developing orbital solar power would be a better bet. Or dumping it into fusion research. Let government work on basic research, not end user installs. As for me, I do take them when available, when I removed the old single pane aluminum windows in my old house, and replaced them with double paned gas filled windows. But I would have bought those windows anyway.

But about picking pockets, notice I didnt single out the consumer, it's the government handing money out like candy, in a time when they dont have enough money to pay the bills. They give our money to the companies, they make the utility pay over the top rates for solar generated energy, and threaten to fine them even more if they dont. So, what do you think the utility will do to make up for buying that guys power at exorbitant rates? Why, charge everyone more.

How many of the people getting these solar systems would buy them even if it were not for the credits. Not to mention the fact that the utilities are required to pay the consumer the same rate to consumers for that electricity, not the market rate they pay power plants.

Take a look for MD solar installation companies. Notice tons of them? Why? They, like the Obamaphone companies, have found a stream of free govt cash, and are lining up at the trough. Like ethanol, it's a racket.

[b23hqb]

So, has Germany found, say, another 7 million or so Jews to toss into their energy output?

Just sayin', seeing the current situation in the ME.

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by glhs837

If it's a recent installation, chances are good it's using Chinese panels, they have flooded the market. So he said it had paid for itself, or it was going to?

It can best do that by investing that subsidy money on basic research, heck, spending on developing orbital solar power would be a better bet. Or dumping it into fusion research. Let government work on basic research, not end user installs. As for me, I do take them when available, when I removed the old single pane aluminum windows in my old house, and replaced them with double paned gas filled windows. But I would have bought those windows anyway.

But about picking pockets, notice I didnt single out the consumer, it's the government handing money out like candy, in a time when they dont have enough money to pay the bills. They give our money to the companies, they make the utility pay over the top rates for solar generated energy, and threaten to fine them even more if they dont. So, what do you think the utility will do to make up for buying that guys power at exorbitant rates? Why, charge everyone more.

How many of the people getting these solar systems would buy them even if it were not for the credits. Not to mention the fact that the utilities are required to pay the consumer the same rate to consumers for that electricity, not the market rate they pay power plants.

Take a look for MD solar installation companies. Notice tons of them? Why? They, like the Obamaphone companies, have found a stream of free govt cash, and are lining up at the trough. Like ethanol, it's a racket.

As far as I know the installation was about five years ago. Did they even have the credit available then?

[Gilligan (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

No, it wouldn't. Natural gas and solar are better examples.


rs:

Uh..whilst I'm a big fan of natural gas, it is a 'fossil fuel', the burning of which produces CO2...and is not a 'renewable'.

Solar is a horrendously inefficient mess and a national boondoggle as are windmill generators.

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by Gilligan

Uh..whilst I'm a big fan of natural gas, it is a 'fossil fuel', the burning of which produces CO2...and is not a 'renewable'.

Solar is a horrendously inefficient mess and a national boondoggle as are windmill generators.

You're right, it's not renewable, but it is heretofore an untapped resource that can lessen our dependence on oil and we don't have to strip a mountain to do it. And, if we are to speak about greenhouse effect crap, it burns cleaner than coal or oil. AND, I have gas rights, damn it!

Solar, wind or whatever, just like anything innovative you have to put some effort into it and give it time to work out. That's just life, it's the way things go.