Attacking Iraq Is Wrong

[Erin Berry]

Ken King I agree with you 100%. Why does President Bush and Dick Cheney want to give the terrorists an excuse (in their minds!) to blow up Americans? Iraq never attacked the United States. It attacked Kuwait (not exactly a neighbor) and Iran. Why on Earth is Bush setting about this course of attacking a country for which no evidence exists that it has nukes and less evidence that it would use them against us. (There's no way they would: think about it....) I have racked my brain trying to figure out why Bush is doing a premptive strike which is without precedent in US history. This is terrifying. Who's next? China? North Korea? India? All of these countires have nukes. If that's the real reason then why didn't we attack the Soviet Union when they had nukes pointed right at us and admitted it? I think he is trying to divert attention from the corporate scandals and also is interested in taking control of their oil. Another reason he's doing it is to finish (in his mind) what his father started. Again Iraq never attacked the United States. We have no right to lay a finger on them. We have no right to commit an unprovoked attack on ANY country. We have nukes too, does that give other countries the right to attack us and change our leadership? Of course not! I am afraid. The public has to wake up and see what's really behind this campaign. It ISN'T American safety since we'll be far less safe if the US engages in the reckless and frightening experiment.
Erin

[Ken King (Premo)]

Erin,

I feel obliged to let you know that I have changed my position on this topic. My reasoning behind this switch is that Iraq has been determined to be a hostile state that has not complied with the agreements that ceased hostilities of the Gulf War. Congress passed a law in 1998 that authorizes the President to bring Iraq into compliance with the many UN Resolutions.

Terrorists might pick up activity if we attack, that is a very real possibility, but it is assured that they will attack us again if we do nothing. They already have and it seems likely they will again as we have a lot of holes in our defenses. This is one of the many prices of freedom that has always been there, we just haven't experienced it much until recently.

Iraq has and still continues to attack the United States and coalition forces (British) that are maintaining the No-Fly Zones over Iraq. This in direct violation of UN agreements. When they do we smack them for it, but it hasn’t stopped. They have used chemical weapons against both Iran and the Kurds. We knew from inspections that they still have stockpiles of agents of both the chemical and biological nature. They have theatre range ballistic missiles that can deliver the weapons throughout that region. They value only their desires, not human life, or anyone’s idea of how the world should be.

The UN either is unable to bring Iraq into compliance or doesn’t have the will to do it. Does this mean it shouldn’t be done? I now say no. It is necessary that demons that would use these weapons be dealt with. There is no place for them in our world. The sad part of all of this is that many people will suffer. Mostly because while we strive to comply with agreements to minimize collateral damage the Iraqi government is concentrating their military and equipment within their heavily populated regions which results in a maximization of those type casualties. It is deliberate ploy to weaken our resolve because of our knowledge of the number of innocent lives that could be lost, something that they care nothing about.

Now don’t get me wrong as your fears are mine also and any war is something that should be avoided. You also bring up other interesting points as to the motivations for taking this on now, but I truly believe that President Bush is acting in the United States and the world’s interests.

[Erin Berry]

My main point is that Iraq has never done anything to the United States. It has only attacked its neighbors. So why is the U.S. getting involved in disputes between Middle Eastern countries? Why can't the Middle Eastern countries solve their own problems? Why should the US pay for their territorial disputes? Of course last time it was about oil....just like this time. Only this time I also believe it is Israel that is worried that at some point Iraq will use nuclear weapons on it. Israel is not a third-world poor country. No this is not an anti-Israel argument...doesn't matter who it is....they can pay for their own defense. If THEY want to attack Iraq let them do it and pay for it.
But the Iraqi people (there is no argument in favor of Saddam) don't deserve what we are proposing to do to them. Because of the sanctions, a million and a half Iraqi children and adults have died. They are the innocent victims. The purpose of the sanction was to get the people to revolt against SH. But they were powerless to do so. So the sanctions are, in essence, a form of genocide. Why do we treat Iraq different than we treat China? Or the way we treated the Soviet Union? Look at what they have done to other Soviet States and the human rights atrocities but we haven't starved their citizens to death.
The most important thing is that any soverign nation has the right to not be attacked and have its leader (democratic or not) assasinated just because some other country can't stand him. We don't like China's "leader" (also a dictator) but we are not terrorizing Chinese citizens by saying we are going to bomb them and kill their leader and basically take over.
The US has No RIGHT to kill foreign leaders without provocation.
If that logic holds up then other countries would be allowed to kill our President since we have nuclear weapons (we really do) that we "might"..."someday" use on them.
It's about the oil. And Israel. It's not about ANY legitimate US interest and it is definitely not going to make us safer. Those terrorists (none were from Iraq) will all the more inspired to kill US military overseas and here.
The worst part of all this is that the Bush people who are urging war have not served in the military so they are very cavalier about sending in US troops for something stupid and wrong like this.
Thanks.
Erin

[Ken King (Premo)]

Well, Iraq has done a little more then just attack their neighbors. They have also attacked their own people that aren’t aligned with the beliefs of the Hussein regime, dissention was and is met with brutal consequences. They have had a long and bitter war with Iran, which we supported as we saw the leadership of the Iranians move from the dictatorship of the Shah to the fundamentalist Islamic control of the Ayatollah. Something we viewed as very destabilizing to the entire Middle-East region. We welcomed their battle with Iran as it depleted the Iranian’s abilities and redirected their attention away from us.

The issue with the Iraqi regime is that their acts and behavior give indication that we should be wary of the worse they can do and if they obtain nuclear capability we should expect them to utilize it. They have already used the chemical weapons without regard to the impact of innocent lives. And as I have said earlier they continue to attack our forces performing their assigned peace-keeping functions. This, to me, is the same as attacking any city in the US of A.

Why do we care about the Middle-East? Well you’ve hit it several times, their oil reserves and Israel? Our gluttony for oil makes it vital territory, both economically and strategically valuable to our interests. This is a whole topic unto itself and definitely worthy of further discussion. Israel is a whole different ball of wax, but they are equally important due to our dedication to their existence and the foothold it allows for us, if needed for tactical purposes. Trust me, I am no favorite of what Israel is doing and I think that they are a very key component to the turmoil in the area that needs to be dealt with. Again another distinct and different topic.

Another reason why we are engaged is that historically we have become the world’s “big brother”, “body guard”, or “police force” (any of those terms describes our relationship with the majority of the world), right or wrong it is the way it has become. I believe that it is our stance on human rights and civility, our position on the basic inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and the projection of that philosophy that is why everyone looks towards us to take on these tasks. Combine that with our military prowess and we become the nation best suited to do the job. We are driven by our desire to extend democratic principles and freedom to oppressed people wherever they may be so that they too can experience a better way of life.

Many people, in my opinion, are obsessed with the argument that Iraq’s weapons can’t reach us here at home. The fact that the movement of portable weapons is extremely easy, it wouldn’t take much of an analysis to conclude that they could use very simple, diverse, and covert means to bring the fight (and weapons) to our shores. We are, after all, a very open society that has ignored our security for a long time. So the question is do we sit around waiting for it to happen or do we do something about it?

I agree that the people of Iraq don’t deserve the suffering of war, but it seems that they have no will to join with the majority of the world in living in a peaceful environment. Mostly because this regime crushes any internal threat and deprives them of the ability to obtain a change towards a free society. I think they just don’t know how to go about it and lack the basic ability to bring about any reasonable change. Until the discovery of their vast oil resources, and the money that it brought to them, these people were truly in the dark ages. They had no understanding to most of the wonders we take for granted. They had no money to obtain anything more than primitive small arms. Their society has been a feudal one with tribal disputes as the norm of their lives. That was all they knew. I believe that due to the financial surge they have been launched into a new world that they weren’t prepared to handle.

Your comment about the sovereignty of a nation is true until that nation violates the foundation of the governing treaty, namely the Charter of the UN, which is what Iraq did when they attacked Kuwait. As a hostile nation Iraq opened the path for what they have suffered. At any time that Iraq complies fully with the resolutions the sanctions would be removed. Their failure to follow the terms of the cessation of hostilities dictated by the UN is their own doing and another indication that Hussein cares nothing about those that he supposedly leads. While you see it as an imposed genocide, I see it as the result of Iraq’s calculated move not to comply with the UN conditions placed upon them when they agreed to bring an end to the war that they started. Which, by the way, if the resolutions were complied with, they would have had their sovereignty guaranteed.

[Erin Berry]

It is America's arrogance (what right do we have to force other nations to live like us?) that makes it hated in certain quarters. The idea that the United States, just because it's a superpower, has the right to wipe it's rear end with other countires, is an outdated one. We (CIA) assasinated the leader of Iran in 1951 and we have whacked the leaders of certain African countries to enable US corporations to continue to exploit the natural resources of those countries (oil, minerals, diamonds, etc). I hope you agree those things were wrong. Again, Iraq never committed ANY offense against the US and we have no right based in International law or common sense to whack their leader and cause more suffering to its population just because SH gave the finger to the United States.
Do you know how many treaties the US has broken over its history? Look what we did to the Native Americans? Look what we did to enslaved Africans. Look what we do to death row inmates who may or may not be guilty. This cowboy, bullying mentality we currently adhere to is going to lessen the respect civilized countries have for us and will give the terrorists more reasons to kill US citizens around the world, not that there is EVER and excuse to kill innocent people as a way to express your political views.
Under Bush's reasoning: "we are going to prevent terrorism before it starts around the world" I assume we are going to depose the Saudi goverment next. It's second biggest export is terrorists so it looks like they are going to have to go cause it doesn't please us that they are an undemocratic and uncivilized country (corporal punishment, oppression of woman, no free speech).
The "evidence" that Bush and Cheney (and now Blair) have would, if it were a criminal trial conducted against Saddam in the US, result in an aquittal. There is no evidence that he has nuclear weapons and no evidence that if he did he would use them on the US. Of course he wouldn't because if he did the Middle East would become a big piece of glass. There's no way he would attack us; it would mean the devastation of a whole civilization.
Bush's talking about Iraq violating the sanctions is just a bunch of hot air. He (SH) kicked the inspectors out in 1998; why is it just now a crisis to "deal with" Iraq?
The US should cease to be the worlds 911. Our policies on when intervention is necessary are hypocritical and racist. Look at what happened in some African countries a few years back with people arms and legs being chopped off? Getting involved in that would have been a just cause but we turned a blind eye. We turn a blind eye to human suffering and terrorization when there is nothing in it for big business for the most part.
It's no surprise that the only friend we have in this unjust adventure we getting ready to undertake is the Brits. Of course they have tried to colonize and oppress and exploit every country they ever came into contact with: Palestine, Iraq, Pakistan, India, how many more ???? At least some of the other colonizers have come to the conclusion that imperialism is over. And we have to get along with other countries not try to own them which is what we are trying to do to Iraq. Starving their people will make it harder for them to fight back once we finally take over the country.
The other middle eastern nations are extremely nervous and rightly so, because they are thinking "are we next?"
And under Bush and Cheney, they might very well be. It would be more honest of Bush, instead of talking about violations of the UN resolutions as his reason for taking over, to just say "this guy has thumbed his nose at the Mighty USA for too long and it's making us look like fools cause we can't boss him like we can other countries" That would be far more accurate.
The US has no right to knock off the leader of any foreign country and no right to interfere in the domestic politics of any other country unless its invited. There is no moral or political argument in favor of the US invading a middle eastern country unprovoked, to kill it's leader and lock up or kill civilians. It's none of our business if he has nukes. So do we!! So does China! So does the Soviet Union! Why not lets go into China once we own the Middle East?

[tater]

Originally posted by Erin Berry
Why does President Bush and Dick Cheney want to give the terrorists an excuse (in their minds!) to blow up Americans? Iraq never attacked the United States.

Ummmm..... think Germany and Hitler. Same same. As far as the attacks... they will do that anyway NO MATTER what. They hate us and always will. The reason we are going to do something now is to KEEP them from launching a nuke down our throats(which they are on the verge of getting) before it's too late. Do you think Saddam's crazy a__ will NOT use a nuke if he gets his hand on one? Think again.

[tater]

Originally posted by Erin Berry
It is America's arrogance (what right do we have to force other nations to live like us?) that makes it hated in certain quarters. The idea that the United States, just because it's a superpower, has the right to wipe it's rear end with other countires, is an outdated one.

Sounds to me like you would be much happier in Bagdad, Yemen, or Kabul........... Adios.

[Erin Berry]

Why would anyone born here be happier in a middle eastern country? An argument provides a list of reasons why your position is correct. An ad hominem attack just insults the person who takes a position opposite to yours. So what are your reasons for why the US should attack Iraq? Why don't they have the right to be left alone? Do you the US should be the supervisor of other countries? Do you think Israel should get us involved in its disputes with its neighbors? We shouldn't even have to rely on their oil. If we used other energy forms (some are actually viable... wind power, geothermal...) we wouldn't have to deal with any Middle Eastern countries we didn't want to. Most of their practices are abhorrent to the West...no free press, etc.....

[tater]

Originally posted by Erin Berry
So what are your reasons for why the US should attack Iraq? Why don't they have the right to be left alone?

Well, if you would have read my post, it does say why I believe what I believe.

If it were up to you and people like you, we would sit back and let 1930' and 1940's Germany happen all over again. This country did NOT get to where it is today by laying back, eating granola, and hoping for the best.

[Erin Berry]

Not sure what granola has to do with these important issues but I guess it's breakfast time. Anyway, I would like to see how you feel Nazi Germany is similar to the situation with Iraq. If the US lived right next door to Iraq and there were far far fewer of us and they decided our "kind" shouldn't be allowed to live and started building ovens for our extermination then I could see how they would be called similar situations. But I really cannot see the comparision. The Jews in Nazi Germany were a minority in the population and they were living in the same country as Hitlers supporters. We are a huge superpower with millions more people than Iraq and nowhere close geographically. Or are you saying they want to wipe the Jews in Israel off the face of the Earth? It's not clear from your answer. The only countries I know of they have have had serious battles with are their immediate neighbors: Iran and Kuwait.