Quote:
Originally Posted by Geek  |
I'll quote & comment in red but first and foremost Geek, you have proven again what I said earlier. Your sources are VERY flawed and so your statements will be flawed also. Did you notice that she NEVER used the Bible as a reference? She used it to say it was incorrect about homosexuality. A clear sign that she does NOT believe it. Another CLEAR SIGN is that she has the nerve to call herself a pastor. This is a sin and VERY unbiblical! I won't site the Bible verses here because you don't believe them either so I'll only make a few points from her article.
...oddly enough, I don't remember one word ever being spoken about homosexuality. I don't even know when I first heard the term -- probably not before high school. When I did, it was not with any heavy overlay of negativity -- and in this, I have come to realize, my experience is very different from many people's. I did not grow up being told homosexuality was shameful or sordid; I never had a bad experience such as being molested by a person of my own gender. In fact, I had never met a homosexual person, as far as I knew, even into my twenties. This combination of influences meant that my attitude was pretty much "live-and-let-live." I didn't see how it hurt anyone, or how it threatened me, if two people of the same sex wanted to love each other and live together. What was the big deal?
So just because she hadn't heard about homo's until her 30's or didn't have any bad experiences means that they are not sinful? Good grief Geek, and you believe her?
It really wasn't until seminary, when I was thirty years old, that the issue acquired a human face for me. Her name was Sally...But over time we made a habit of praying together, and it was in the course of those years of praying, of being honest with ourselves as possible in the presence of God, that Sally came out to herself as gay. When the Presbyterian Church kicked her out of the ordination process, I was stricken; how could they say that Sally was not qualified to be a pastor? She was the best student in her class, and a better Christian than I ever expect to be. I knew that she had been gifted and called to the ministry. Then Sally was fired from her job as the Youth Director at the church, because someone sent the pastor a letter saying that she was gay. All I could think at the time was; this is absurd, this is evil. Sally is great with those kids; why would people assume she is not safe to work with them?
God already said she couldn't be a Pastor. The Presbyterian church was only following His Word.
About "why would people assume she is not safe to work with kids", Can you say Scout leaders and catholic priests?
Sally did not deserve to be despised and rejected; it was the church who was wrong. In the five years that followed, I had many such experiences. I had young men with AIDS look up at me with hollow eyes and ask, "Do you think I am an abomination?" I sat with young men calling for their parents as they died, parents who never came. I kept going back in my mind, again, and again, to my earliest Christian training; the message that God loves everyone, and that Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself. He didn't say, "love your neighbor, unless he or she happens to be homosexual." He never said one word about homosexuality at all.
This is very sad and wrong, I agree. These parents and others should never abandon their kids and call them names. What they do is a sin but people are not to be hated or ridiculed. The sin is what should be hated. So, again, I go back to what I said earlier: God will never disappoint you, people always will.
Jesus spent his whole life going to the poor, the marginalized, the persons who were called unclean by their society, and demonstrating that God's love included them. He treated them with compassion. His own harshest words were for the Pharisees who believed that they were righteous in God's eyes, that others were not, and that God's judgments and opinions were identical to their own.
This is why this blind fool should not be a pastor. She needs to read the rest of the book where God destroyed 2 entire cities for their perversion and the Egyptians and many others for their evil ways. Not to mention what He will do at the end of the world.
Which brings me to the question of what the Bible has to say about homosexuality. The world "homosexual" does not appear anywhere in the Bible -- that words was not invented in any language, until the 1890s, when for the first time the awareness developed that there are people with a constitutional orientation toward their own sex.
There are 2 ways that the Bible can make a point: state it or imply it. The word "Trinity" is not in the Bible but it is implied MANY times!
In the whole Bible, there are only seven brief passages that deal with homosexual behavior. The first is the story of Sodom and Gomorra, which I preached on last fall, which is actually irrelevant to the issue. The attempted gang rape in Sodom has nothing to say about whether or not genuine love expressed between consenting adults of the same gender is legitimate.
"Irrelevant"??? This woman will pay dearly for her sinful lies. Geek, try to cover up this lie for your lady friend! Read this and tell me who is wrong here, her or God: Genesis 19 v 4 & 5 says: "...all the men from every part of the city of Sodom-both young & old-surrounded the house. Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them". Does this sound like they were interested in a Bible study with them?
But even if this were not the case, even if Paul knew about and condemned all forms of homosexual behavior, even the most loving, what then? Paul also told women not to teach, not to cut their hair, not to speak in church. Do we follow his teaching? When I was pastor at Wallingford, I put biblical and intellectual foundations under my "heart" experience of knowing Sally.
She is the devil's advocate. This is why Paul told women not to teach. She is living proof! Most of her theology is emotionally based and the very reason why Eve was deceived and why God said women are not to be pastors in His church.
As a result, when you ask me, "Is homosexuality a sin?" My answer today is: "No." I may be wrong, and I ask God's forgiveness if I am. But I don't believe that sexual orientation has anything to do with morality, any more than being blond or tall or left-handed does. Homosexuals as well as heterosexuals can be involved in sexual sin, including promiscuity, infidelity, and abuse. And homosexuals as well as heterosexuals can love one another with faithfulness, tenderness, and integrity. The same standards of moral behavior should apply to Christians, straight and gay. That is what my life experience as a pastor has led me to believe.
When a homosexual couple comes to meet with me in my office, then, and asks, "Will we be accepted in this church?" I can answer, "I will accept you."
Shall I say, "Yes, you will be accepted here, as long as you aren't open about who you are and who you love?" Shall I say, "Yes, you will be accepted here, but you may not serve in any leadership positions." Shall I say, "Yes, you will be accepted here, but whatever you do, don't hold hands in church. Only heterosexual couples are allowed to do that." Shall I just say, "No." Or, perhaps, simply, "Yes."
SATAN LOVES THIS WOMAN! Do you realize how many people might end up in hell because of her? And I guess, then, that God was wrong in destroying those 2 cities right Geek?
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