'Gay' indoctrination starts in Minneapolis

[johnycarcinogen]

Originally Posted by bcp

This is great, At last I have found someone with enough intellect to tell me how carbon dating or any method for that matter is a proven test. since we have not been around long enough to actually watch the deterioration over a period of a billion years or so
also while you are at it, if you can explain how something was created from nothing ( a question for religion also)

and, are you basing the "Days" God used to created the heavens and earth based on our current man made reflection of time? remember, our time is based on the earths relationship to the sun, something that was not there when God Created it.

Did jesus ride sauropods?

I don't have time to accurately explain radiocarbon dating or potassium-argon dating to you right now, but I will return.

[Xaquin44]

Originally Posted by johnycarcinogen

Did jesus ride sauropods?

I don't have time to accurately explain radiocarbon dating or potassium-argon dating to you right now, but I will return.

it won't matter because he still won't listen to logic.

[This_person]

[

Originally Posted by bcp

and I think its really offensive to have the lifestyle pushed as normal to our children regardless of what we think.
when they go back and stop flaunting and trying to force their views on others, I will once again back away and keep mine to myself.
its only fair.

Originally Posted by bcp

basically, I suppose what Im saying is that its really not any of your business what I do or dont do. if the time comes that I decide its my place to teach your children to do as I do, then maybe you would have some interest in it.

I've never understood why others can't understand this simple logic!

[This_person]

Originally Posted by faeriefolk

Well said!

Everybody has the right to their own views, but every child should have the right to go to school without being beaten or harrassed.

However, if the parents aren't teaching their kids that this isn't okay, then society has little choice but to attempt to teach kids to tolerate those who are different from them. Hopefully, some of it might sink in.

(As the mom of a teen ager who dances to her own drum, I can tell you that high school is an incredibly frustrating experience. Some of the things that have been said to my kid would make a sailor blush.)

Beaten? Of course. Harrassed? I guess that depends on what one would define as harrassment.

Society can certainly teach tolerance - by denying jobs, by choosing to not associate with people they don't agree with, etc. As long as we accept free speech, people will be "harrassed" by others who disagree with them. When schools are allowed to teach morals, then we need to step in and decide WHOSE morals. Being unable to agree on that (as this thread clearly proves), we need to shut up about morals and move on to things schools should teach. Teach the biology of homosexuality (once it's clearly defined), or teach that it exists in a sex-ed course, etc. Teach that discrimination or "beatings" are unlawful. But, don't teach that it must be accepted. Tolerated and accepted are two very, very different things.

[hammishsqueak]

Originally Posted by This_person

Beaten? Of course. Harrassed? I guess that depends on what one would define as harrassment.

Society can certainly teach tolerance - by denying jobs, by choosing to not associate with people they don't agree with, etc. As long as we accept free speech, people will be "harrassed" by others who disagree with them. When schools are allowed to teach morals, then we need to step in and decide WHOSE morals. Being unable to agree on that (as this thread clearly proves), we need to shut up about morals and move on to things schools should teach. Teach the biology of homosexuality (once it's clearly defined), or teach that it exists in a sex-ed course, etc. Teach that discrimination or "beatings" are unlawful. But, don't teach that it must be accepted. Tolerated and accepted are two very, very different things.

We're always going to teach someone's morals; that is unavoidable. In a case like this, I would like to see the schools simply teach that if you disagree with homosexuality, disagree. Maybe voice your opinion, and then let it be (as you said tolerance and acceptance are hugely different). The problem is that kids aren’t being taught by parents to conduct themselves in a civil manner and instead become violent towards or bully those with perceived differences, whether it is sexual preference, race or creed.

As for harassment, there is a big difference between saying, "I disagree with your lifestyle and here's why" once to a homosexual child (that is free speech) and the homosexual child being followed and being called inappropriate names every single school day. If someone was following your child daily telling them they're bigoted or close minded for not accepting homosexuality, it would be considered harassment. Once could be annoying or upsetting, but it wouldn't necessarily be harassment. Then again, people’s definitions are different. You see people on court shows claiming harassment for being asked to pay a bill TWICE.

I just don't want any kids to feel as if they don't want to go to school because they're afraid of being beaten or made fun of throughout the day. All kids deserve an equal education and if a gang of kids continually makes the homosexual child's life at school a living hell, they will be more likely to drop out and be forced to depend on tax dollars to feed, clothe, and shelter them. Maybe that seems like a huge leap, but I see it as a problem.

Whenever people bring up the "biology of homosexuality" you get people spitting fire on both sides of the issue. In the end, our knowledge of what makes up true science (biology) is socially constructed and influenced by the morals our culture/religion teaches us. It's definitely a very difficult decision to decide what we should and should not teach in public schools....I wouldn't want to make that final decision myself!

[This_person]

Originally Posted by hammishsqueak

We're always going to teach someone's morals; that is unavoidable. In a case like this, I would like to see the schools simply teach that if you disagree with homosexuality, disagree. Maybe voice your opinion, and then let it be (as you said tolerance and acceptance are hugely different). The problem is that kids aren’t being taught by parents to conduct themselves in a civil manner and instead become violent towards or bully those with perceived differences, whether it is sexual preference, race or creed.

As for harassment, there is a big difference between saying, "I disagree with your lifestyle and here's why" once to a homosexual child (that is free speech) and the homosexual child being followed and being called inappropriate names every single school day. If someone was following your child daily telling them they're bigoted or close minded for not accepting homosexuality, it would be considered harassment. Once could be annoying or upsetting, but it wouldn't necessarily be harassment. Then again, people’s definitions are different. You see people on court shows claiming harassment for being asked to pay a bill TWICE.

I just don't want any kids to feel as if they don't want to go to school because they're afraid of being beaten or made fun of throughout the day. All kids deserve an equal education and if a gang of kids continually makes the homosexual child's life at school a living hell, they will be more likely to drop out and be forced to depend on tax dollars to feed, clothe, and shelter them. Maybe that seems like a huge leap, but I see it as a problem.

Whenever people bring up the "biology of homosexuality" you get people spitting fire on both sides of the issue. In the end, our knowledge of what makes up true science (biology) is socially constructed and influenced by the morals our culture/religion teaches us. It's definitely a very difficult decision to decide what we should and should not teach in public schools....I wouldn't want to make that final decision myself!

A very well reasoned and appropriate response. You and I agree 100% that a child should not be allowed to be put in a position where they fell physically threatened - scared for their well-being - in school. That's not an acceptable option for any reasonable person. Everyone involved in that type of situation - from the students to the teachers to the parents to the administrators of the school - are responsible for such inappropriate action.

Where I personally draw the line between tolerance and acceptance is well described by that very thing. A tolerant person would not ever treat another human being that way. An accepting person would go out of their way to make someone else feel better about themselves for their differences. It goes to the old "if you can't say something nice...." theory. A tolerant person keeps their mouth shut, their actions neutral, their thoughts to themselves regarding something as private as this; and the "accepting" person overtly welcomes the difference and demands others do the same. Say, by teaching that the difference is either insignificant, or or demanding special accomodations.

The biology of it is, to me, pretty clear. Depending on how one reads objective data, somewhere between 2 and 4% of people are homosexual. That seems a pretty indisputable source, and a reasonable number. But, it's not 0. It exists, and only a real bigotted fool would deny it. But, by definition, it's abnormal. Like being born blind, or deaf, or a genius, or any other genetic deformation, it's abnormal. I think we can agree that there's a difference between an alcoholic and a drunk, and we can agree there's a difference between a homosexual and someone of an "alternative lifestyle". One's a choice, one's not (for each category). I hold no ill-will towards an alcoholic, nor a homosexual - but I don't think either should be taught in school as a normal state of existence. Tolerated because there's no option for those involved, of course. But, accepted as a normal way to be? No. And, just like a blind person, or a deaf person, or a genius, or an alcoholic, certain accomodations MUST be appropriately made. And some, not.

[ItalianScallion (Premo)]

Originally Posted by AndyMarquisLIVE

Show me where in the Bible tolerating homosexuality is a sin.

Other than making you accountable for your "condoning" this lifestyle, I don't know why I'm spending time doing this for you. You not only do not believe the Bible but you also argue against it. Since you do not SEEM to be saved, nothing I say will matter to you. This will be evident by your forthcoming response.
Here are 2 verses (there are many more) that shows how a Christian must treat this issue:
Romans 1 v 24-32 with special emphasis on v 32 which talks about those of you who condone the lifestyle.
Ephesians 5 v 8-17 with an emphasis on v 11.
Now, you'll not find your exact words in the Bible and that's what you want to hear. I know how you'll play this out but many things are CLEARLY implied in the Bible, it's just that the lost cannot see them without spiritual guidance. If they could, they would not be siding with that kind of evil choice. Have at it son.

[ItalianScallion (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Midnightrider

more like, since you are blinded by your hate and intolerance.....
I thought jesus said love your brother, and God commanded not to judge...

Again, unless you're saved, you cannot accept what God says. Although what you quote is correct, you, obviously, cannot discern the true meaning of the verses.
Jesus said love your brother and love one another. Not everyone is my brother and to love one another does NOT mean that we accept their sinful lifestyle. If that was the only verse in the Bible it would be true but, since it isn't, you must read it in the context of the entire book. Many other verses speak of telling another person about their sinful ways without disrespecting them. THAT DOES NOT MEAN TOLERANCE OR APPROVAL OF THEM!
As far as judging goes, He means not to be a "self righteous" judge. That means that I cannot say to someone that I'm sooo much better than you and I can judge you. However, if I am not committing the sin of homosexuality and you are, I can surely tell you that it is wrong. In fact, I am commanded to.

[ItalianScallion (Premo)]

Originally Posted by johnycarcinogen

Do you believe in intelligent design? Do you think all fossils and the rocks dating 4 billion years old are fake?

Yes I believe in ID. Do you know the many flaws in carbon dating and that you are taking man's word over God's? I heard of a Coke can being carbon dated as 400 years old when Coke came along in the 1920's or 30's? Do you also realize that science cannot reconcile the fact that, even though Adam, Eve, the trees, etc., were fully "mature" when they were created, they were only ONE DAY OLD? Picture a baby coming out of Mommy and yet is able to walk & talk intelligently but only be one day old. Hard, isn't it? Do you know that the chicken came before the egg? Evolutionists cannot get that. Did you know that, even though many visible stars are billions of light years away, their light was immediately visible on earth after they were made? Science can't reconcile that either! Although the Bible does not give the age of the earth, I for one cannot see how man could have been here for billions of years and not have made the technological advances that he came up within this last century alone sooner than he did. This is why I believe in the younger earth theory. Again, no faith, no understanding of spiritual things.