No 4 year college for SOMD?

[czygvtwkr]

I find student loan debt to be "good debt" providing that it was used with care. Student loans are like a chainsaw, it can be very useful you just need to think about using it. Taking out $100k in debt to get a degree in underwater basket weaving is like using a chainsaw to scratch your balls with though.

I had $20k in debt when I got my MS 12 years ago, paid it off in 4 years and only strung it out that long because I had consolidated it at 2.5% interest.

Now buying usless junk on credit that adds no value to my net worth or earning potential is bad debt.

I think CSM is expensive for a community college.

[afjess1989]

Originally Posted by czygvtwkr

I find student loan debt to be "good debt" providing that it was used with care. Student loans are like a chainsaw, it can be very useful you just need to think about using it. Taking out $100k in debt to get a degree in underwater basket weaving is like using a chainsaw to scratch your balls with though.

I had $20k in debt when I got my MS 12 years ago, paid it off in 4 years and only strung it out that long because I had consolidated it at 2.5% interest.

Now buying usless junk on credit that adds no value to my net worth or earning potential is bad debt.

I think CSM is expensive for a community college.

Im using nothing but the pell grant. Im paranoid about taking out student loans and not having a job after i graduate to pay it off

[fatratcat]

Originally Posted by SummerTimeFine

CSM is a freakin joke

Looks like your sitting here with us, genious!

[bohman]

Originally Posted by jetmonkey

Many years ago in a class at St. Mary's I suggested that the college had ample resources to develop some programs that focused on equipping students with the skills that NAVAIR was interested in. My classmates were violently opposed. I suspect elitism may have been a factor.

I hate to say it, but there is some of that attitude there.

Originally Posted by fatratcat

I appreciate your comments, but respectfully disagree. The fact is SMC is a public resource, because it receives $18,000,000 from taxpayers every year. That money comes with strings or should come with strings. Specifically, if the college expects to continue to receive tax money it must support the taxpayer. Parading "100 years of existence" as any kind of an excuse to resist organizational change is a deplorable mindset. Organizational agility is critical in the information age. Teaching anything less is a recipe for a calamity. So, if that's what is taught at SMC, it's bad juju for the school and pupils.

I also have a problem with "other means." It intimates a "go away we are special" message. You're not special. If SMC is training it's pupils to be anything less than meaningful conributors to society, they are being done a disservice. SMC is a potential educational oasis sitting in the middle of a 4 year degree desert. The taxpayer pays for it, so the taxpayer must benefit from it. It's a cycle. People work, pay taxes that support the school, the school trains the people to work. It really is that simple. Otherwise, I would suggest SMC take the college "for profit" route and surrender it's spot in the UM system to CSM and allow it to grant full degrees. BTW- that idea has merit. CSM serves 9,000 undergraduates SMC only 2,000. So, perhaps that "other means" will serve 4 and a half times the students currently being served. So, whenever SMC wants to stop being special, I see a fix. Until then, consider supoorting the taxpayers that support you!

That 18M came from the state of MD, not St. Mary's county. And not that I would ever call 18M a small amount of money, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to what is spent on education in MD statewide. It did come with strings attached, just not the ones you would like.

I see your point but WRT St. Mary's College I think your focus might be a bit too narrow. It exists to provide a broad education to students from all over the country, and from other countries for that matter. They have responded to change, by vastly strengthening their science programs, to compliment the liberal arts that they've always had. You are looking for them to have a local focus as a training ground for Pax (and I am not opposed to building up a working relationship between SMC and Pax) but that isn't what the school is here for. The vast majority of its students come from central or northern MD, or New England, outside Pax's sphere of influence.

Lastly, at what point did you gain the impression that SMC grads are not "meaningful contributors to society?" Is it because most of them don't go on to have a career at Pax? I know a lot of SMC alums who are doing fantastic research, volunteer work, started successful businesses, and activism for many causes. I don't know any who sit around and do nothing with their lives. How is that not contributing to society? The benefits are not always easily measured (as opposed to, say, the number of jobs Pax brings to SOMD) but they are valuable nonetheless.

Sounds to me that focusing on CSM would better serve your educational wish list for this area.

[vince77]

CSM is already a feeder to school to a large major university. CSM students can now be a part of the Maryland Transfer Advantage Program (MTAP) that guarantees University of Maryland admission to qualifying students who complete the program requirements. Students may begin studies at the College of Southern Maryland (CSM) and transition to University of Maryland programs in College Park or at Shady Grove. This innovative program not only eases the transfer process, but also makes it possible for students to begin taking classes at University of Maryland College Park at a tuition discount while still attending CSM.

If anyone thinks the University of Maryland is going to spend millions of dollars to build an brick and mortar campus in Southern Maryland because you're unwilling to drive to College Park, think again.

An education is time and money....

[BOP]

Originally Posted by fatratcat

A recent news story about locals being too under educated to take advantage of defense jobs at Pax river sparked my curiosity. Why doesn't SOMD have a 4 year college? St. Mary's College doesn't fulfill this function. Why don't we make expand it's mission to better support the local economy? The SMHEC is a nice idea, but hasn't been wildly successful at closing the gap for the community. I heard a rumor that CSM tried years ago to become a 4 year college, but was unsuccessful. I graduated from UMUC. Online is nice, but brick & mortar has many advantages.

Well clearly the answer is to dumb down the requirements.

[fatratcat]

Originally Posted by bohman

I hate to say it, but there is some of that attitude there.



That 18M came from the state of MD, not St. Mary's county. And not that I would ever call 18M a small amount of money, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to what is spent on education in MD statewide. It did come with strings attached, just not the ones you would like.

I see your point but WRT St. Mary's College I think your focus might be a bit too narrow. It exists to provide a broad education to students from all over the country, and from other countries for that matter. They have responded to change, by vastly strengthening their science programs, to compliment the liberal arts that they've always had. You are looking for them to have a local focus as a training ground for Pax (and I am not opposed to building up a working relationship between SMC and Pax) but that isn't what the school is here for. The vast majority of its students come from central or northern MD, or New England, outside Pax's sphere of influence.

Lastly, at what point did you gain the impression that SMC grads are not "meaningful contributors to society?" Is it because most of them don't go on to have a career at Pax? I know a lot of SMC alums who are doing fantastic research, volunteer work, started successful businesses, and activism for many causes. I don't know any who sit around and do nothing with their lives. How is that not contributing to society? The benefits are not always easily measured (as opposed to, say, the number of jobs Pax brings to SOMD) but they are valuable nonetheless.

Sounds to me that focusing on CSM would better serve your educational wish list for this area.

Very well said, but please allow me to retort. $18,000,000.00 is a lot of money. Relativism? A man drowning under 12 inches of water is better off than a man drowning under 10 feet? That's the kind of "disconnect" that troubles me the most. The economy is tough. The tax base (ie small business, Pax, etc) need help. Staying competitive matters. If $18,000,000.00 is only a drop in the bucket than SMC won't mind giving it up? Hmmm....thought so! Maybe, it's more than "a drop in the bucket."

Yes, you can bet a bunch of that money came from St. Mary's, Charles, and Calvert counties.

As for my impression of SMC students? I have none. Literally, I have lived in the county for 20 years and not a peep out of them. Frankly, they are not the object of my argument. As for international or kids from out state, it makes my point. The people of Maryland are paying for a system that educates other people's kids. On a personal level, I don't care if the kid from Bangkok majors in theater...just not on my dime. And damn sure not when that kid is going to take the education we gave him back to his country and beat us over the head with it. If the kid wants to become an engineer, I don't mind educating him/her, as long as they become US citizens when they're done. Paying for talent and then exporting it makes zero sense.

I noticed that Mary Washington put a branch in Dahlgren to support folk and a similar gesture is all that I'm looking for from SMC, UMUC, or CSM. Bottomline, SMC time for riding the public dime should be ended. If you want to be special and support kids from out of state and not our own...OK...just don't ask for tax money to do it. So, I'll be waiting for my "drop in the bucket" to be returned ASAP. I'm guessing that I shouldn't hold my breath? Take care! Honestly, I respect your point of view, but just think it is majorly out of touch. Shalom!

[fatratcat]

Originally Posted by vince77

CSM is already a feeder to school to a large major university. CSM students can now be a part of the Maryland Transfer Advantage Program (MTAP) that guarantees University of Maryland admission to qualifying students who complete the program requirements. Students may begin studies at the College of Southern Maryland (CSM) and transition to University of Maryland programs in College Park or at Shady Grove. This innovative program not only eases the transfer process, but also makes it possible for students to begin taking classes at University of Maryland College Park at a tuition discount while still attending CSM.

If anyone thinks the University of Maryland is going to spend millions of dollars to build an brick and mortar campus in Southern Maryland because you're unwilling to drive to College Park, think again.

An education is time and money....

I hate to be a kill joy, but I graduated from that program. Round trips to Adelphi, Andrews, and Bolling to complete my degree were necessary. It's true about 60% of the classes that I needed were offered locally, but finding and timing out that crucial 40% was a real B. It slowed degree completion greatly!

As for what College Park thinks, I don't care. Actually, I think the school is over rated. Eventually, the market will correct the imbalance. Unfortunately, that probably means "for profit" schools, which I also graduated from but don't necessarily recommend. They tend to be too predatory for me. There is nothing wrong with their academic rigor though (in the regionally accredited bunch).

Your solutions are great for kids, but really tough for the workforce (ie working adults). 100 + mile commutes several times a week are unrealistic for folk transitioning in the workforce. It's too expensive and time consuming. It saddens me to say, but maybe it's time for the "for profits" to swoop in and clean out the less than agile public institutions. Again, not what I want, but it's probably how it'll go down. College Park can save it's money, Strayer, Phoenix, Northcentral, and dozen others might have to fill this void. Take care!

[bohman]

Originally Posted by fatratcat

Very well said, but please allow me to retort. $18,000,000.00 is a lot of money. Relativism? A man drowning under 12 inches of water is better off than a man drowning under 10 feet? That's the kind of "disconnect" that troubles me the most. The economy is tough. The tax base (ie small business, Pax, etc) need help. Staying competitive matters. If $18,000,000.00 is only a drop in the bucket than SMC won't mind giving it up? Hmmm....thought so! Maybe, it's more than "a drop in the bucket."

Yes, you can bet a bunch of that money came from St. Mary's, Charles, and Calvert counties.

As for my impression of SMC students? I have none. Literally, I have lived in the county for 20 years and not a peep out of them. Frankly, they are not the object of my argument. As for international or kids from out state, it makes my point. The people of Maryland are paying for a system that educates other people's kids. On a personal level, I don't care if the kid from Bangkok majors in theater...just not on my dime. And damn sure not when that kid is going to take the education we gave him back to his country and beat us over the head with it. If the kid wants to become an engineer, I don't mind educating him/her, as long as they become US citizens when they're done. Paying for talent and then exporting it makes zero sense.

I noticed that Mary Washington put a branch in Dahlgren to support folk and a similar gesture is all that I'm looking for from SMC, UMUC, or CSM. Bottomline, SMC time for riding the public dime should be ended. If you want to be special and support kids from out of state and not our own...OK...just don't ask for tax money to do it. So, I'll be waiting for my "drop in the bucket" to be returned ASAP. I'm guessing that I shouldn't hold my breath? Take care! Honestly, I respect your point of view, but just think it is majorly out of touch. Shalom!

I agree with many of your suggestions; it is difficult for working adults to further their education and the county/state would be well served to spend money fixing that problem. I think my only disconnect with you is that you think SMC is obligated to churn out engineers/acquisition professionals as opposed to setting their own course. Would it be good for them to reach out to Pax and the local community? Yes. Are they obligated to do so? IMO, no.

Just a difference of opinion.

[fatratcat]

Originally Posted by bohman

I agree with many of your suggestions; it is difficult for working adults to further their education and the county/state would be well served to spend money fixing that problem. I think my only disconnect with you is that you think SMC is obligated to churn out engineers/acquisition professionals as opposed to setting their own course. Would it be good for them to reach out to Pax and the local community? Yes. Are they obligated to do so? IMO, no.

Just a difference of opinion.

Well said! I appreciate the exchange of ideas and hope I wasn't too hard on SMC. My argument is larger than Pax though. I think somewhere in the discourse it seemed like that was my sole concern. Actually, I do not work on Pax and have never been in the Navy, however I am a veteran. I do think that St. Mary's has all of it's eggs in the Pax basket, so my argument is for creating greater workforce agility through higher education. Like I said, cuts are coming and one bad congressional vote could give some folk back the quiet country life they seem to pine for so much on this board. Unfortunately, it would be a disaster for the local economy. I will stick to my proverbial guns on one point, if SMC, UMUC, or CSM don't step up, chances are the for profits will. I graduated from a for profit. Again, there is nothing wrong with their academic rigor, however their business practices prey on the uninformed and veterans. Senator Harkin recently uncovered a number of their abuses, including mirepresentation, FA fraud, low graduation rates, etc. I'd rather see a public solution.